Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
| 00:06:00 | raptor | now the classic levels server is eating up 62 MB of RAM |
| 00:07:00 | raptor | i think because of our timer bot testing |
| 00:07:00 | raptor | memory leak with the bots somewhere... |
| 00:15:00 | raptor | sam686: |
| 00:15:00 | raptor | bots are weird on the current map of your server |
| 00:19:00 | raptor | the map is "the wall (less asteroids) |
| 00:20:00 | | maxh_ has joined |
| 00:20:00 | maxh_ | err i should rename |
| 00:20:00 | | maxh_ is now known as Zoomber |
| 00:20:00 | Zoomber | hello |
| 00:20:00 | Zoomber | better |
| 00:21:00 | raptor | hi |
| 00:21:00 | Zoomber | oh. |
| 00:21:00 | Zoomber | this isnt good |
| 00:21:00 | Zoomber | watusimoto, are you there? |
| 00:21:00 | Zoomber | watusimoto |
| 00:21:00 | Zoomber | (ping) |
| 00:22:00 | Zoomber | (raptor will probably believe that I crashed my hackintosh trying to install a sound kext |
| 00:22:00 | raptor | haha |
| 00:22:00 | raptor | yup |
| 00:23:00 | Zoomber | (but he wont believe that because of that crash, i figured out a new installation meathod, and if i crash again, i can reinstall in less than 5 minutes) |
| 00:32:00 | raptor | direct imaging? |
| 00:32:00 | Zoomber | creds to my 5 year old self when i fiddled around with an ibook for 5 hours straight, with no idea what would happen next |
| 00:32:00 | Zoomber | and yeah, |
| 00:32:00 | Zoomber | i install the sofware on an external hard drive |
| 00:32:00 | Zoomber | and if i need to reinstall |
| 00:32:00 | Zoomber | i just restore the image onto my hard drive |
| 00:33:00 | raptor | that's great! |
| 00:33:00 | Zoomber | thats the only reason i stick wiht macs by the way |
| 00:33:00 | Zoomber | i learned my abc s on them..lol |
| 00:33:00 | raptor | sam686: are you seeing your server memory go up and staying high because of bot usage? |
| 00:34:00 | raptor | Zoomber: so you know, i think watusimoto doesn't get along with his IRC client, that's why he usually doesn't respond to ping |
| 00:34:00 | Zoomber | ah, i see |
| 00:34:00 | Zoomber | course...skype...notifies you every message, so you can be bound to hear that |
| 00:34:00 | raptor | IRC does for me too |
| 00:35:00 | Zoomber | only notifies me on ping and when someone leaves/joins |
| 00:35:00 | raptor | that stinks |
| 00:35:00 | raptor | no option to set up for notification on each message? |
| 00:35:00 | raptor | my client had it on by default |
| 00:36:00 | Zoomber | yeah i just set it |
| 00:36:00 | Zoomber | but its not on by default |
| 00:36:00 | Zoomber | and i didn't think to set it on |
| 00:37:00 | raptor | oh good |
| 00:37:00 | Zoomber | ok thats interesting, my client is mismatching my chats and putting "raptor:" not "zoomber:" before the chat |
| 00:37:00 | Zoomber | so it looks like you said it on my screen |
| 00:37:00 | Zoomber | only after each second reply i make |
| 00:38:00 | raptor | weird |
| 00:38:00 | Zoomber | well anyway, what i wanted to tell watuismoto, i suppose you might want to know about this too; we've discussed it before but we thought it was just my lapto |
| 00:38:00 | Zoomber | laptop |
| 00:38:00 | Zoomber | however, i see this problem on my desktop too now |
| 00:39:00 | Zoomber | there seems to be frame tearing and ripping when i have bit-fighter on full screen |
| 00:39:00 | Zoomber | or what looks like frame-tearing; as ive never experienced it anywhere else |
| 00:39:00 | Zoomber | i have a video of it on my macbook if u want to vnc to see it |
| 00:40:00 | Zoomber | watusimoto and i thought it was probably a dying graphics card, but i just saw the tears happen on my desktop too |
| 00:40:00 | Zoomber | (another good reason i have my hackintosh; incase one computer has a problem that happens only on that computer) |
| 00:41:00 | raptor | what do you consider frame-tearing? |
| 00:42:00 | Zoomber | seeing white lines appear randomly in random places |
| 00:42:00 | raptor | liek graphics card corruption? |
| 00:42:00 | Zoomber | kind of like a film rim in old movies |
| 00:43:00 | Zoomber | how when you watch the movie, you see those white streaks appear |
| 00:43:00 | Zoomber | just horizontal, not vertical |
| 00:43:00 | Zoomber | i can show you a picture if you want to vnc to my macbook |
| 00:43:00 | raptor | have you tried changing the card output frequency? like if it's at 70 Hz, change it to 60 |
| 00:43:00 | Zoomber | its at 60 right now, let me try that |
| 00:44:00 | Zoomber | ok, i can only do 60 and 75 for this particular resolution |
| 00:45:00 | Zoomber | yeah..now its gone |
| 00:45:00 | Zoomber | and..right as i say that, it starts again |
| 00:45:00 | Zoomber | however, when im in windowed mode, its all clean |
| 00:46:00 | Zoomber | note on my laptop lcd display, i cannot set hz rate; only on my desktop |
| 00:47:00 | raptor | i'm not convinced the problem is bitfighter related |
| 00:47:00 | raptor | but i can be convinced |
| 00:47:00 | raptor | do you have a screenshot? |
| 00:47:00 | Zoomber | im dont have a strong opinion either way yet |
| 00:47:00 | Zoomber | i can try to get a screensho |
| 00:48:00 | Zoomber | i have a video of it on my mac, i can pause it, and you can vnc to see it |
| 00:48:00 | Zoomber | i had to record it from an external camera to capture the streaks |
| 00:49:00 | raptor | ok |
| 00:49:00 | Zoomber | when i get info on bitfighter.app, it does not say Application (intel) or Application (universial). What platforms did you complie 15a for? |
| 00:49:00 | raptor | ppc/x86 |
| 00:50:00 | raptor | so universal |
| 00:50:00 | Zoomber | kk |
| 00:50:00 | Zoomber | we should update the info.plist file so people can know its (universial) and which version it is without opening |
| 00:51:00 | Zoomber | i can do that in a jiffy if you want and put it on my clone |
| 00:51:00 | raptor | sure] |
| 00:51:00 | Zoomber | ok; ill tell you when i have edited it. |
| 00:52:00 | Zoomber | then, the next version we release, will show the info when you "get info" on the application |
| 00:52:00 | Zoomber | ok, you can vnc now if youd like |
| 00:53:00 | raptor | asks for password |
| 00:53:00 | raptor | i forgot it |
| 00:53:00 | Zoomber | err, try raptor |
| 00:53:00 | raptor | i did |
| 00:53:00 | Zoomber | ok |
| 00:53:00 | Zoomber | leme check lol |
| 00:54:00 | Zoomber | says, no pass protection |
| 00:54:00 | Zoomber | i just restarted it just to make sure |
| 00:54:00 | raptor | still asks for pass |
| 00:54:00 | raptor | maybe a screenshot of your movie? |
| 00:54:00 | Zoomber | note: my ip is dynamic, and could have changed |
| 00:56:00 | Zoomber | ok, i guess i should just keep a password then |
| 00:56:00 | Zoomber | try raptor again |
| 00:56:00 | raptor | still has one |
| 00:56:00 | raptor | didn't work |
| 00:56:00 | raptor | maybe it's pointing to a different compY? |
| 00:57:00 | Zoomber | hmm |
| 00:57:00 | Zoomber | no thats not it, because my computer's reporting that i still have the external ip |
| 00:57:00 | raptor | well, i have to eat dinner - try and get a screenshot if you can |
| 00:57:00 | raptor | i'll be back later |
| 00:57:00 | Zoomber | ok |
| 01:00:00 | | raptor Quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 01:02:00 | | zoomber_ has joined |
| 01:02:00 | zoomber_ | http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6175/file30326.mp4 |
| 01:02:00 | | zoomber_ Quit (Client Quit) |
| 01:07:00 | Zoomber | this is the movie file that contains what the tears and streaks |
| 01:07:00 | Zoomber | notice how if you pause the video and look at the streaks |
| 01:07:00 | Zoomber | it shows my desktop |
| 01:07:00 | Zoomber | be right back |
| 01:12:00 | | Zoomber Quit (Quit: Zoomber) |
| 01:46:00 | | raptor has joined |
| 01:46:00 | | ChanServ sets mode +o raptor |
| 01:46:00 | raptor | i think they might be taking the suicide issue a little too seriously in the forums |
| 02:05:00 | | watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 03:19:00 | | BitfighterLogBot - Commit 78011beaf8ef | Author: sam8641 | Log: make Vector work, Vector::address() probably won't work. |
| 03:19:00 | raptor | i'll see when I believe it... |
| 03:21:00 | raptor | i don't understand how you made it work sam686 |
| 03:22:00 | sam686 | Vector<bool> does work, except that most returning pointers was modified to make it work. |
| 03:24:00 | raptor | you did that making the bool static? |
| 03:25:00 | sam686 | yes. |
| 03:25:00 | sam686 | it now works with this test http://96.2.123.136/bitfighter/testVectorBool.txt |
| 03:25:00 | raptor | nice |
| 03:28:00 | sam686 | vector<bool> is very memory efficient, taking up only 1 bit per bool. Where non-vector array bool[1000] takes like 8 bit per bool. |
| 03:28:00 | raptor | yes, but it isn't any faster |
| 03:28:00 | raptor | and it isn't actually stored as a bool |
| 03:28:00 | raptor | but as a bit |
| 03:28:00 | raptor | so it is a terrible hack, in my opinoin |
| 03:28:00 | raptor | not your hack |
| 03:29:00 | raptor | the c++ STL implementation |
| 03:29:00 | sam686 | which is better, vector<bool> or a vector<fake_bool> where a fake_bool only have a struct { bool a} ? |
| 03:29:00 | raptor | i have no idea |
| 03:30:00 | raptor | i think it would have been better if the STL guys who invented it, did it right from the start |
| 03:32:00 | sam686 | new Vector feels like it is little or no speed performance gain in windows compared to old Vector... |
| 03:32:00 | raptor | i did tons of tests in linux, all were 2-100 times faster |
| 03:33:00 | sam686 | maybe linux optimize vector for faster speed more then windows. |
| 03:33:00 | raptor | there might not be a noticeable performance gain in-game when you are playing |
| 03:35:00 | sam686 | vector<bool> may be hacky, whats the alternative that will work in both windows and linux and mac? |
| 03:35:00 | raptor | well, deque was supposed to work.. |
| 03:36:00 | sam686 | not sure if there problems in visual 2010 and deque.. |
| 03:36:00 | sam686 | could try |
| 03:36:00 | raptor | nah |
| 03:37:00 | raptor | we just rewrite bitfighter in Java, it has decent and consistent data structures :] |
| 03:37:00 | sam686 | which is faster, deque or vector? |
| 03:37:00 | sam686 | Java might be slower? |
| 03:38:00 | raptor | http://www.codeproject.com/KB/stl/vector_vs_deque.aspx |
| 03:38:00 | raptor | java is not slower |
| 03:38:00 | raptor | java is fast |
| 03:38:00 | raptor | java is a memory hog, however |
| 03:39:00 | raptor | according to that study, deque seems to be faster all around |
| 03:39:00 | raptor | the downside is that elements in deque are not stored in continuous memory, so we couldn't use the address() method |
| 03:39:00 | raptor | and stuff it into an array |
| 03:42:00 | | watusimoto has joined |
| 03:54:00 | | [1]watusimoto has joined |
| 03:54:00 | raptor | ok |
| 03:54:00 | raptor | level XML revision 2: http://96.2.123.136/upload/test.rev2.level.xml |
| 03:55:00 | raptor | no attributes this time :) |
| 03:55:00 | raptor | should make parsing a lot faster |
| 03:55:00 | raptor | although it is incredibly verbose |
| 03:56:00 | sam686 | looks like a lot more lines.. |
| 03:56:00 | raptor | 365! |
| 03:56:00 | raptor | that's XML for you.. |
| 03:56:00 | raptor | although i could make it one line if you want :) |
| 03:57:00 | sam686 | which is faster, multi line or single line like <x>2</x><y>4</y> |
| 03:57:00 | | watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 03:57:00 | | [1]watusimoto is now known as watusimoto |
| 03:57:00 | raptor | neither |
| 03:57:00 | sam686 | i may be thinking that smaller filesize is faster.. |
| 03:58:00 | raptor | not when parsing |
| 03:58:00 | raptor | XML doesn't really work that way |
| 03:58:00 | raptor | it loads up all the data first then creates an object tree |
| 03:58:00 | raptor | more attributes slow down the build of the tree |
| 03:58:00 | sam686 | then, will XML slowdown with a million blank lines? |
| 03:58:00 | raptor | plain old element tags are fast to parse |
| 03:59:00 | raptor | not with the parsing |
| 03:59:00 | raptor | the slow down occurs in transmission |
| 03:59:00 | sam686 | well, it have to load XML first, then parse.. |
| 03:59:00 | raptor | i.e. it takes longer to transmit or load into memory all the bytes in a big file |
| 03:59:00 | raptor | yes exactly |
| 03:59:00 | raptor | before we just read files line by line |
| 04:00:00 | raptor | now we have to load the whole thing first |
| 04:00:00 | sam686 | it will still slowdown with XML due to slower loading for bigger filesize (if parse is at the same speed) |
| 04:00:00 | raptor | yes |
| 04:00:00 | raptor | that's true |
| 04:02:00 | sam686 | will it slowdown load / parse when <minplayers>4</minplayers> put near the end of file while keeping structure the same? |
| 04:02:00 | raptor | nope |
| 04:02:00 | raptor | same speed |
| 04:03:00 | raptor | son the original level file was 1K, this iteration is 5.5K |
| 04:03:00 | raptor | so data is 5.5 times bigger with XML |
| 04:03:00 | raptor | that's reasonable given the format |
| 04:04:00 | sam686 | what if you need to use < in title name? |
| 04:04:00 | raptor | then that will be escaped by the writer like this: < |
| 04:04:00 | raptor | and the parse will see the < and translate it as < |
| 04:05:00 | raptor | there are only a select few XML characters that need to be escaped: < > & |
| 04:05:00 | raptor | < > & |
| 04:06:00 | sam686 | How will levelgen write XML? |
| 04:07:00 | raptor | haven't thought about that... |
| 04:08:00 | raptor | does levelgen write level files now? |
| 04:09:00 | raptor | or does it just create the objects on the fly? |
| 04:09:00 | sam686 | no, levlegen just runs ProcessLevelLoadLine("...") |
| 04:10:00 | sam686 | levelgen:addLevelLine(str1) |
| 04:10:00 | raptor | we'll have to reengineer that |
| 04:10:00 | sam686 | str1 can be "Barrier 1 2 3 4 5 6" |
| 04:11:00 | sam686 | will need to either have an individual addBarrier / addSpeedZone / addSpawnPoint or somehow use the same XML version of addlevelline... |
| 04:11:00 | raptor | yes |
| 04:13:00 | sam686 | could be made very difficult when addLevelLine is missing </something> and having to look in levelgen code.. |
| 04:13:00 | raptor | yes |
| 04:14:00 | raptor | but we'll use the XML api to write the file, it will take care of the tags |
| 04:15:00 | sam686 | XML might take up extra memory, especially if levelgen is generating something very big.. |
| 04:15:00 | raptor | it sure will |
| 04:16:00 | raptor | XML is basically a database in text form |
| 04:17:00 | raptor | everything requires a lot more memory than our current implementation |
| 04:17:00 | raptor | because you can search xml just like a database |
| 04:20:00 | watusimoto | I really don't like the xml version of the level either |
| 04:20:00 | watusimoto | but I think we need the xml capability |
| 04:20:00 | watusimoto | I'm not worried about speed |
| 04:20:00 | watusimoto | I really don't think that's going to be a decisive issue |
| 04:20:00 | raptor | if we don't care about people needing to look at the file, then we can just do JSON |
| 04:21:00 | watusimoto | and it will clean up our parsing code a lot |
| 04:21:00 | watusimoto | though we'll probably need to retain that for reading old levels |
| 04:21:00 | watusimoto | well, if we're not going to look at the files, xml is fine! |
| 04:22:00 | raptor | haha |
| 04:22:00 | watusimoto | another possibility is to write level lines in a new custom format |
| 04:23:00 | raptor | yes |
| 04:23:00 | watusimoto | Turret team=1 regen=4 coords=3,4,2,8,1,2,3,6 |
| 04:23:00 | watusimoto | or something |
| 04:24:00 | watusimoto | then we can write attribs on the line in any order, which is what I want to do |
| 04:24:00 | watusimoto | what advantages does xml bring? |
| 04:24:00 | watusimoto | already-written parser |
| 04:24:00 | raptor | fast searching within the DOM |
| 04:25:00 | watusimoto | we don't need that, do we? |
| 04:25:00 | sam686 | sort of like it is already done on "SpeedZone 3 4 5 6 10 SnapEnable R10" can be "SpeedZone SnapEnable 3 4 R10 4 5 10" but could use a better format.. |
| 04:25:00 | raptor | nope, not unless we use XML :) |
| 04:25:00 | watusimoto | sort of |
| 04:26:00 | watusimoto | we'll only be reading the levels in linear format, creating items as we encounter them |
| 04:26:00 | watusimoto | we don't need to search |
| 04:26:00 | sam686 | bigger filesize = slower /getmap and slower map uploads. Could use some compression.. |
| 04:26:00 | watusimoto | if we have one item per line, we read a line, digest it, and move on |
| 04:27:00 | raptor | xml+family allows the lines to be out of order, too |
| 04:27:00 | watusimoto | yes |
| 04:27:00 | raptor | and you don't even need lines |
| 04:27:00 | raptor | allows for serialization, essentially |
| 04:27:00 | watusimoto | order is not critically important, though you do need to process walls before processing things that are stuck to them, like turrets |
| 04:28:00 | watusimoto | though we could create all the objects, then run the initialize on them in order |
| 04:28:00 | sam686 | need to set up GameType first then any items.. |
| 04:28:00 | watusimoto | yes, that's true |
| 04:28:00 | watusimoto | but we can read the whole xml tree, then grab the gametype |
| 04:28:00 | watusimoto | then grab the walls |
| 04:28:00 | watusimoto | then grab everything else |
| 04:29:00 | watusimoto | I'm no longer sure we can convert our xml to svg easily |
| 04:29:00 | watusimoto | which was one hope |
| 04:30:00 | sam686 | in a current old .level loader, it can read any size probably over 2 GB in size, it load some, process some, load more.. |
| 04:30:00 | raptor | yeah, we'd have to write custom svg snippets to replace certain parts |
| 04:30:00 | raptor | it could be done with XSLT |
| 04:30:00 | raptor | but it woul dbe a beast |
| 04:31:00 | watusimoto | I'm not worried about a 2gb level |
| 04:32:00 | watusimoto | the game would fail long before that |
| 04:32:00 | raptor | i mean the XSLT |
| 04:32:00 | raptor | i put XSLT on par with PERL for maintainability |
| 04:32:00 | watusimoto | one idea would be to write the level and include a block of svg that was never read in, only used for external display |
| 04:32:00 | watusimoto | :-) |
| 04:37:00 | raptor | XPM! |
| 04:37:00 | sam686 | as for SVG, possible for screenshooter to write to SVG instead of bitmap, as it only uses dots, lines. and shapes. |
| 04:42:00 | watusimoto | that would be interesting |
| 04:42:00 | watusimoto | but hard |
| 04:42:00 | watusimoto | have to replicate entire display in svg |
| 04:44:00 | | Zoomber has joined |
| 04:44:00 | Zoomber | hi |
| 04:44:00 | sam686 | hi. |
| 04:45:00 | raptor | Zoomber: your problem is definitely a graphics driver or hardware problem |
| 04:45:00 | raptor | SVG is crazy hard to write |
| 04:45:00 | Zoomber | are you sure about that? |
| 04:45:00 | raptor | oh yeah |
| 04:45:00 | Zoomber | note: this is on 2 of my macs, and i've also discovered it on my friends laptop as well |
| 04:46:00 | Zoomber | maybe this is more of a problem with the card itself? |
| 04:46:00 | Zoomber | not a dying card |
| 04:46:00 | Zoomber | but an intel card |
| 04:46:00 | raptor | yeah - what happens is that the driver (or hardware) doesn't have the proper openGL calls implemented, or implemented badly |
| 04:46:00 | Zoomber | as both macs and the ibm use an intel card |
| 04:46:00 | Zoomber | not sure about my friends mac, but both my computers use an intel accelerater chipset |
| 04:46:00 | Zoomber | gma950 to be exact |
| 04:46:00 | Zoomber | er 940 |
| 04:46:00 | Zoomber | er 950 |
| 04:47:00 | Zoomber | i see. that makes sense |
| 04:47:00 | Zoomber | brb\ |
| 04:47:00 | Zoomber | back, nothing big, just a spill :) |
| 04:48:00 | raptor | that gma950 has given me problems with openGL in the past, too |
| 04:48:00 | raptor | i had a lappy with it |
| 04:48:00 | raptor | was trying to play unreal tournament, but couldn't because of crazy artifacts |
| 04:48:00 | Zoomber | really? |
| 04:48:00 | raptor | i could play in windows but not linux because the linux driver was behind the times |
| 04:49:00 | Zoomber | what is vsync? is that something that helps graphic tearing? |
| 04:49:00 | raptor | your issue isn't graphics tearing |
| 04:49:00 | sam686 | yes, it helps avoid graphics tearing, or appearing split in motion. |
| 04:49:00 | Zoomber | i see |
| 04:50:00 | Zoomber | oh, tearing is when one side of an image is slightly different to another? |
| 04:51:00 | sam686 | yes, but you only see tearing when things is in motion and moving. |
| 04:52:00 | Zoomber | because the graphics card updates faster than the monitor refresh rate? |
| 04:52:00 | sam686 | sometimes yes.. sometimes graphics is limited and can't render that fast. |
| 04:54:00 | sam686 | extremely fast rendering (500 frames per second) may reduce tearing, but slightly faster FPS then refreshrate will have the mos tearing effect.. |
| 04:55:00 | sam686 | increasing refreshRate will also reduce tearing effect. |
| 04:56:00 | sam686 | V-Sync enabled will probably never render faster then refreshrate, resulting very smooth motion.. |
| 05:02:00 | raptor | one thing to think about: use OpenGL ES instead of OpenGL |
| 05:02:00 | raptor | that should increase the portability |
| 05:03:00 | raptor | but i'm still not completely clear on the differences |
| 05:08:00 | Zoomber | ok |
| 05:08:00 | Zoomber | but arent we getting rid of open gl anyways? |
| 05:08:00 | Zoomber | and changing it? |
| 05:09:00 | raptor | no way |
| 05:09:00 | raptor | that's what makes it run on linux and mac as well as windows |
| 05:09:00 | raptor | we are getting rid of GLUT |
| 05:09:00 | raptor | which uses openGL to draw the windows |
| 05:09:00 | raptor | and moving to SDL |
| 05:10:00 | sam686 | already got rid of ALUT only used ALUT for WAV loader, now using alternative.. |
| 05:10:00 | Zoomber | oh |
| 05:10:00 | Zoomber | yeah, but alut was really causing a problem, bigger than this one |
| 05:11:00 | Zoomber | the thing is, half the macs have intel chipsets; the other half have ati |
| 05:11:00 | raptor | even for graphics? |
| 05:11:00 | Zoomber | does the problem specifically lie within the 950 or just the brand? |
| 05:11:00 | raptor | intel does both CPU and GPU |
| 05:11:00 | raptor | ATI only GPU |
| 05:11:00 | Zoomber | acknologed |
| 05:11:00 | Zoomber | ackwnolwdegd |
| 05:11:00 | raptor | haha |
| 05:11:00 | sam686 | AMD cpu is probably still intel-compatible. |
| 05:11:00 | Zoomber | acknowledged |
| 05:12:00 | raptor | yes but Mac has only used intel CPU, and IBM CPU |
| 05:12:00 | Zoomber | take a look for yourself , heres |
| 05:12:00 | raptor | IBM = ppc |
| 05:12:00 | sam686 | AMD / ATI companies may be merged.. |
| 05:12:00 | raptor | yes but ATI (for now) still does GPU only and AMD CPU only |
| 05:12:00 | Zoomber | http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/imac/select?mco=MjIwNTQyNjE |
| 05:12:00 | raptor | they are working on merging the two, though |
| 05:12:00 | Zoomber | those are core i5s and amd |
| 05:13:00 | Zoomber | all the desktops have amd |
| 05:13:00 | Zoomber | but the laptops, the lower end will have intel |
| 05:13:00 | Zoomber | http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro?mco=MjIwNTQyODE |
| 05:13:00 | raptor | ok AMD GPU = ATI GPU |
| 05:13:00 | raptor | so that is good that they don't use intel graphics |
| 05:14:00 | Zoomber | they do |
| 05:14:00 | Zoomber | on laptops |
| 05:14:00 | Zoomber | but you can choose to pay more and not use them |
| 05:14:00 | raptor | ahh |
| 05:14:00 | raptor | cheapos |
| 05:14:00 | raptor | you'd think the $400 apple tax would get you a decent graphics chip |
| 05:14:00 | raptor | but maybe they take power usage into consideration |
| 05:14:00 | Zoomber | meh, it saves you the time trying to make a hackintosh |
| 05:15:00 | Zoomber | LOL |
| 05:15:00 | Zoomber | well, if you dont want cheapness, just pay 5 grand |
| 05:16:00 | Zoomber | that gives you an ATI card with 1 gb GDDR5 |
| 05:16:00 | raptor | holy cow |
| 05:16:00 | Zoomber | theyll be sure not to use intel graphics |
| 05:16:00 | raptor | that's more power than the CPU |
| 05:16:00 | Zoomber | wait... |
| 05:16:00 | Zoomber | WAIT |
| 05:16:00 | Zoomber | i can get,..a GIFT CARD |
| 05:16:00 | Zoomber | for my old computer |
| 05:16:00 | raptor | ha |
| 05:17:00 | Zoomber | no actually this is pretty cool because i used to have an ibook that has a dead hard drive now |
| 05:18:00 | Zoomber | awwqw |
| 05:18:00 | Zoomber | my computer has a zero-dollar value |
| 05:19:00 | raptor | yep takes two years to get to zero |
| 05:19:00 | Zoomber | haha na i got that old thing 10 years ago |
| 05:20:00 | sam686 | most 10 year old computer is probably useless, too slow and too little memory. |
| 05:20:00 | raptor | 10 years old and it runs bitfighter? |
| 05:20:00 | watusimoto | why not? |
| 05:20:00 | | raptor wonders about opengl compatibility back then |
| 05:21:00 | Zoomber | hey comon, thats some vaule right there |
| 05:21:00 | Zoomber | oh it can run mac 10.4 easy |
| 05:21:00 | Zoomber | easy |
| 05:21:00 | Zoomber | thats enough right there...i believe watusimoto remembers the struggle we had back then, getting 10.4 ppc guys to be able to play |
| 05:22:00 | Zoomber | me just figuring out how to use xcode |
| 05:31:00 | raptor | i can't believe i'm playing lemmings |
| 05:31:00 | raptor | i guess that means it's time for bed |
| 05:31:00 | raptor | night |
| 05:36:00 | | raptor Quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 05:37:00 | | raptor has joined |
| 05:37:00 | | ChanServ sets mode +o raptor |
| 05:37:00 | raptor | forgot something |
| 05:37:00 | raptor | Zoomber: |
| 05:37:00 | raptor | can you test something for me? |
| 05:37:00 | Zoomber | yes |
| 05:38:00 | raptor | i need someone with a real mac to test the new speex voice codec in-game |
| 05:38:00 | Zoomber | well..i could |
| 05:38:00 | Zoomber | speex? |
| 05:38:00 | Zoomber | i thought speex does not work on mac |
| 05:38:00 | sam686 | that a voice chat from pressing R. |
| 05:38:00 | Zoomber | or am i mixing up the two again |
| 05:38:00 | Zoomber | right |
| 05:39:00 | raptor | speex is a codec |
| 05:39:00 | raptor | i integrated it on mac |
| 05:39:00 | Zoomber | but.. |
| 05:39:00 | Zoomber | ok |
| 05:39:00 | Zoomber | is it on the main code? |
| 05:39:00 | sam686 | you may need the latest main code. |
| 05:39:00 | Zoomber | Ill pull |
| 05:39:00 | raptor | i have a DMG for you |
| 05:40:00 | raptor | give me one moment to ge tthe web server up.. |
| 05:40:00 | sam686 | Note, clients expecting to receive LPC10 when instead receive SPEEX codec will not work on that client.. |
| 05:40:00 | raptor | here: http://69.169.172.147/testing/Bitfighter-015a.macosx-universal.dmg |
| 05:40:00 | raptor | tell me when you've downloaded |
| 05:41:00 | Zoomber | oh |
| 05:41:00 | Zoomber | dammit |
| 05:41:00 | Zoomber | i already compiled lol |
| 05:41:00 | Zoomber | ill use that though |
| 05:42:00 | Zoomber | but i just pulled and compiled |
| 05:42:00 | Zoomber | nothing |
| 05:42:00 | Zoomber | i thought i remember speex not working for mac |
| 05:42:00 | raptor | ? |
| 05:42:00 | raptor | it was never tested yet |
| 05:42:00 | Zoomber | wait no |
| 05:42:00 | Zoomber | thats gsm? |
| 05:42:00 | Zoomber | oh yeah |
| 05:42:00 | Zoomber | i mixed the two |
| 05:42:00 | Zoomber | its gsm for mac |
| 05:42:00 | Zoomber | that ^^ doesnt exist |
| 05:43:00 | raptor | sam686: your tnlVector changes has serious problems compiling on linux |
| 05:43:00 | raptor | downloaded Zoomber? |
| 05:43:00 | Zoomber | yes |
| 05:43:00 | Zoomber | nothing on downloaded version, nothing on compiled version |
| 05:43:00 | Zoomber | no bar |
| 05:44:00 | sam686 | move bool-specific above the rest of code? |
| 05:44:00 | sam686 | at worst case, you could remove that bool changes... |
| 05:45:00 | Zoomber | let me try on my desktop |
| 05:45:00 | Zoomber | make sure its not just a fluke |
| 05:50:00 | | Zoomber Quit (Quit: Zoomber) |
| 05:50:00 | raptor | interesting music sam686 |
| 05:51:00 | sam686 | that music was "Tritax" that came with blitz basic.. |
| 05:52:00 | sam686 | i can check and try to fix linux compiler.. |
| 05:53:00 | raptor | i need to go to sleep |
| 05:53:00 | raptor | that mac problem means i have to debug on mac - which will be no fun |
| 05:53:00 | raptor | good night |
| 05:54:00 | | raptor Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 06:09:00 | | BitfighterLogBot - Commit 0bb5b32e7bf6 | Author: sam8641 | Log: Linux seems to require having template<> for tnlVector |
| 10:16:00 | | karamazovapy_ has joined |
| 10:17:00 | | karamazovapy Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 15:33:00 | | raptor has joined |
| 15:33:00 | | ChanServ sets mode +o raptor |
| 15:37:00 | raptor | hg view |
| 15:37:00 | raptor | oops |
| 15:37:00 | sam686 | typing in a wrong place? |
| 15:37:00 | raptor | yup |
| 15:48:00 | raptor | your fix works fine in linux |
| 16:17:00 | raptor | debugging on Mac is absolutely horrid |
| 16:34:00 | raptor | captureDevice = alcCaptureOpenDevice(NULL, 8000, AL_FORMAT_MONO16, 2048); |
| 16:34:00 | raptor | on SoundSystem.cpp 717 |
| 16:34:00 | raptor | is return null in my VM.. |
| 16:34:00 | raptor | need a real Mac I think |
| 16:36:00 | sam686 | outdated openal? not sure.. |
| 16:37:00 | sam686 | and, when you gave zoomber a dmg to test, are you sure that wasn't a old version that have the rapidly blinking name problem when receiving voice? |
| 16:41:00 | raptor | nope, not sure :) |
| 16:42:00 | raptor | ok, got a real mac with a microphone |
| 16:42:00 | raptor | the only way to debug on a mac semi-efficiently is to use gdb on the command-line |
| 16:42:00 | raptor | xcode is an absolute joke |
| 16:44:00 | raptor | but i may just not know how to debug properly on it |
| 17:10:00 | | BitfighterLogBot - Commit 644a374fdb6a | Author: buckyballreaction | Log: fix building on Mac - make framework paths relative |
| 17:11:00 | raptor | ok same problem on a real Mac: alcCaptureOpenDevice is returning NULL |
| 17:50:00 | raptor | after talking with the openal dev |
| 17:50:00 | raptor | he told me that openal-soft does not support capture on Mac OS X |
| 17:51:00 | raptor | with the coreaudio backend |
| 17:51:00 | sam686 | does mac voice playback from others work then? (no blinking in name)? |
| 17:51:00 | raptor | if we went back to OpenAL that ships with Mac |
| 17:52:00 | raptor | that supports capture, but it crashes |
| 17:52:00 | raptor | he is suggesting that we use portaudio backend instead of coreaudio - but it would require the inclusion of an extra library |
| 18:34:00 | | watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 18:58:00 | | watusimoto has joined |
| 19:48:00 | raptor | actually, i have me doubts on whether capturing ever worked in Mac... |
| 19:48:00 | raptor | in fact, it looks like the original Zap only had capture for windows |
| 19:48:00 | raptor | unless someone know something different |
| 19:52:00 | raptor | yeah, i am not seeing anywhere at any time that voice capture worked in mac |
| 19:52:00 | raptor | in our code repository, at least |
| 19:57:00 | | koda has joined |
| 20:06:00 | raptor | koda: have you ever worked with CoreAudio on the Mac? |
| 20:07:00 | koda | mh not really |
| 20:07:00 | raptor | I am trying implement audio capture with openal |
| 20:07:00 | koda | i think i read some headers but it was coreaudio for ios |
| 20:07:00 | raptor | audio capture is missing for openal on Mac |
| 20:25:00 | | karamazovapy_ is now known as karamazovapy |
| 20:26:00 | karamazovapy | watusimoto - can you look at this thread: http://bitfighter.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=727& |
| 20:26:00 | karamazovapy | this is the best looking mod listed, in my opinion - http://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=2112071 |
| 20:27:00 | raptor | curious - is this actually a useful feature? |
| 20:27:00 | karamazovapy | people have asked for "rep" in the past |
| 20:28:00 | raptor | ah reputation |
| 20:28:00 | karamazovapy | it's not really about usefulness to this community |
| 20:28:00 | raptor | that is ok - i was thinking about a 'like' button |
| 20:28:00 | karamazovapy | same deal with the 'like' button |
| 20:28:00 | karamazovapy | as if people who don't care enough to post are going to bother "liking" or "disliking" something |
| 20:28:00 | raptor | the only use of the 'like' button i've seen is to gather marketing data or stroke ones ego |
| 20:29:00 | karamazovapy | I think furbuggy sees it as a way to add an opinion poll to every thread |
| 21:46:00 | raptor | sam686: i just found out why we don't need directsound anymore |
| 21:46:00 | raptor | openal-soft detected the old winmm api and is using that backend |
| 21:47:00 | raptor | capture doesn't work with directsound in openal - which is why our own implementation was in the old SFX code |
| 21:47:00 | sam686 | it works for me... |
| 21:48:00 | sam686 | well, what the difference between directsound capture and winmm? |
| 21:48:00 | raptor | directsound is newer :) |
| 21:49:00 | raptor | which may not be an advantage... |
| 21:50:00 | sam686 | still needs openal capture code for linux.. |
| 21:51:00 | raptor | ? |
| 21:51:00 | sam686 | directX 8 may be outdated, and directX 10 / 11 may not work in most windows XP.. |
| 21:51:00 | raptor | yeah, and winmm is guaranteed to always be there - except i don't know about windows 7 |
| 21:52:00 | sam686 | i think watusimoto is running windows 7.. |
| 21:52:00 | raptor | so we need to get him to test microphone |
| 21:52:00 | raptor | :) |
| 22:22:00 | | koda Quit (Quit: k thx bai) |
| 22:24:00 | sam686 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc8SX4waWPE - 3D? |
| 22:26:00 | raptor | wow sam, that's crazy |
| 22:27:00 | sam686 | i haven't pushed my changes, you want me to? Can be enabled disabled with /3d command |
| 22:27:00 | raptor | that's crazy! |
| 22:28:00 | raptor | i;d say ask watusimoto |
| 22:29:00 | sam686 | It sort of helps aim more accurate for joysticks, but as in 3D, could get dizzy.... |
| 22:29:00 | sam686 | and, can't see much behind you.. |
| 22:30:00 | sam686 | While 3D is crazy, it have some problems (stars, objective arrows, flat flags, ship's name not under ships) |
| 22:31:00 | sam686 | and, things like loadout zones, goal zones, and ships disappear when too far away.. |
| 23:05:00 | karamazovapy | haha...it's like one of those old cocktail table games |
| 23:06:00 | karamazovapy | where's the drink holder? |
| 23:07:00 | sam686 | My code to make it 3D is not in the main, but in a clone: http://code.google.com/r/sam8641-bitfighter03/source/detail?r=b8415fbfcefca3bddab0bd358c39143282868996 |
| 23:08:00 | karamazovapy | oh - I'm running windows 7 |
| 23:08:00 | karamazovapy | and I have a headset |
| 23:12:00 | | raptor Quit (Remote host closed the connection) |