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| 02:48:00 | Zoomber_laptop | h |
| 02:48:00 | Zoomber_laptop | hi |
| 02:48:00 | Zoomber_laptop | pointblanks back |
| 02:48:00 | raptor | does pointblank stall or something? |
| 02:48:00 | Zoomber_laptop | no the whole server node went down |
| 02:48:00 | Zoomber_laptop | and back up |
| 02:49:00 | Zoomber_laptop | cut me off of all my work |
| 02:58:00 | raptor | down to 50 issues! |
| 02:58:00 | Zoomber_laptop | wow! thats SOooo little! |
| 02:59:00 | raptor | :) |
| 03:12:00 | raptor | I just realized it's october |
| 03:13:00 | raptor | we haven't put out a bitfighter update in 6 months |
| 03:14:00 | Zoomber_laptop | yeah |
| 03:14:00 | Zoomber_laptop | comon and release already! |
| 03:14:00 | Zoomber_laptop | ill make you a 64 mac release |
| 03:15:00 | raptor | I am actually hoping we are done with most of the crazy refactoring... but i have to discuss with watusimoto |
| 03:15:00 | raptor | but we have some intense bug fixing ahead of us... |
| 03:16:00 | Zoomber_laptop | well, theres always the alpha |
| 03:16:00 | Zoomber_laptop | and beta |
| 03:16:00 | Zoomber_laptop | and charlie |
| 03:19:00 | raptor | i need watusimoto to commit... there are so many bugs that I want to fix but he may have done them... |
| 03:31:00 | Zoomber_laptop | so why not beat him too it? |
| 03:31:00 | Zoomber_laptop | : ] |
| 03:31:00 | Zoomber_laptop | comon raptor, you beat me to so many stuff in the past... |
| 03:31:00 | raptor | well.. some of these require some research/effort that I'd rather not start... |
| 03:31:00 | raptor | but i just fixed one i know he doesn't know about :) |
| 03:33:00 | | BFLogBot - Commit 9e028c642e03 | Author: buckyballreaction | Log: Fix music playback when volume is less than full volume |
| 03:34:00 | raptor | sadly i am not invited to opti's new server party :( |
| 03:36:00 | Zoomber_laptop | its ok raptor, we'll...host...our OWN server... |
| 03:36:00 | Zoomber_laptop | n... |
| 03:36:00 | Zoomber_laptop | it will be HuuuUUUUUGE |
| 03:36:00 | Zoomber_laptop | i know, |
| 03:36:00 | Zoomber_laptop | we can call it |
| 03:36:00 | Zoomber_laptop | "The rediculous server" |
| 03:36:00 | raptor | haha |
| 03:37:00 | raptor | man, soccer plays much better now, i think |
| 03:38:00 | Zoomber_laptop | good ogod good |
| 03:38:00 | Zoomber_laptop | thats a priority |
| 03:39:00 | raptor | did we ever actually decide to remove soccer pickup? |
| 03:44:00 | Zoomber_laptop | maybe... |
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| 13:23:00 | watusimoto | hello |
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| 13:27:00 | raptor | good morning! |
| 13:35:00 | raptor | actually let me go to work first... |
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| 13:42:00 | watusimoto | I'm starting to really hate ubuntu |
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| 14:08:00 | raptor | hello again! |
| 14:10:00 | raptor | still hard crashes? |
| 14:17:00 | watusimoto | yes |
| 14:17:00 | watusimoto | twice friday, once today |
| 14:17:00 | watusimoto | and I'm only working half days |
| 14:17:00 | watusimoto | grrrr |
| 14:17:00 | raptor | :( |
| 14:17:00 | raptor | so it is common for any linux distribution to run with annoyances, expecially with laptops (are you on a laptop?) |
| 14:18:00 | raptor | but hard crashes are unacceptable |
| 14:18:00 | watusimoto | yes, laptop |
| 14:18:00 | watusimoto | I'm still uinclear on the process, but I think I am getting a handle on how to run all bots in a single Lua L |
| 14:18:00 | raptor | Oooo |
| 14:18:00 | raptor | i can't wait! |
| 14:18:00 | watusimoto | I currently (almost) have bots reusing their L when they respawn |
| 14:19:00 | watusimoto | won't save memory, but should reduce construction/destruction costs |
| 14:19:00 | raptor | sounds like a good first step |
| 14:21:00 | raptor | So there are several bugs that i've been wanting to fix, but I'm unsure if you've done them or not... |
| 14:22:00 | raptor | like any of the bugs here: http://208.107.52.15/wiki/index.php/Bitfighter016_bug |
| 14:22:00 | raptor | Also, I sent you an e-mail a couple days ago about bug #21 on that page, and how I can't figure it out |
| 14:33:00 | watusimoto | I'm not activley working on any of those, so feel free to pick one |
| 14:33:00 | raptor | ok |
| 14:33:00 | watusimoto | don't worry about 21 |
| 14:34:00 | raptor | also, the nickname entry screen at start-up always blanks the nickname |
| 14:34:00 | watusimoto | I want to redo that somewhat anyway |
| 14:34:00 | watusimoto | I haven't seen the nickname error |
| 14:34:00 | watusimoto | it seems to work for me |
| 14:34:00 | watusimoto | but then I've been testing with chumpchange |
| 14:35:00 | raptor | yeah, if you use any other nickname, next time you start up it's gon |
| 14:35:00 | raptor | gone |
| 14:35:00 | watusimoto | that stinks |
| 14:35:00 | raptor | I can fix that too... |
| 14:35:00 | watusimoto | probably something stupid |
| 14:35:00 | raptor | just wanted to make sure you weren't fixing little bugs as I have tasked myself with doing that... |
| 14:35:00 | raptor | issues are down to 50! :) |
| 14:36:00 | watusimoto | I'm generally checking in stuff as I do it |
| 14:36:00 | watusimoto | and I have my own list :-) |
| 14:36:00 | watusimoto | but it keeps getting longer |
| 14:37:00 | raptor | feel free to merge any time |
| 14:37:00 | watusimoto | yes, ok |
| 14:37:00 | raptor | I sometimes worry that I'll create to many conflicts |
| 14:37:00 | raptor | oh |
| 14:37:00 | watusimoto | one thing I am a but stuck on is a design issue for the editor |
| 14:38:00 | watusimoto | when you have an item selected, like a repair, we need to represent the attributes somehow (or at least I think we do) |
| 14:38:00 | watusimoto | The way we do it in 015 works, but when you select a number of items, it works less well |
| 14:38:00 | watusimoto | I'm trying to figure out how to manage that. Show attribs on item like 015? show them in a window at the bottom of the screen? only show them on demand? |
| 14:39:00 | raptor | attributes, as in recharge rate, etc.? |
| 14:40:00 | raptor | I think if multiple items are selected, attributes should not be shown |
| 14:41:00 | raptor | because it gives the illusion that you can edit multiple things at once |
| 14:41:00 | raptor | unless you can.... |
| 14:41:00 | watusimoto | yes |
| 14:41:00 | watusimoto | you can |
| 14:41:00 | raptor | then only show them if they're identical |
| 14:41:00 | watusimoto | if you select 3 repairs, and set the attribs, they all get updated |
| 14:42:00 | watusimoto | but if they're not identical, and you edit them, they become identical |
| 14:42:00 | watusimoto | but... showing only if identical only matters if they're displayed at the bottom of the screen |
| 14:42:00 | raptor | interesting |
| 14:42:00 | watusimoto | in 015, they're shown on the item, so it matters not if they're identical or not |
| 14:57:00 | raptor | you should know the game physics have changed slightly |
| 15:06:00 | raptor | sam686 added mass to all the move objects |
| 15:06:00 | raptor | we used it to make soccer play more naturally |
| 15:24:00 | watusimoto | I've heard,but haven't tried |
| 15:24:00 | watusimoto | good? |
| 15:25:00 | raptor | yes! |
| 15:25:00 | raptor | i think so |
| 15:28:00 | raptor | watusimoto: do you know what version of bitfighter is protocolVersion 15? |
| 15:29:00 | sam686 | some players comes up with funny names. "I have 50 flags" "Big Boyyyy" "brian loves sam" |
| 15:29:00 | raptor | http://bitfighter.org/bitfighterStatus.json |
| 15:30:00 | sam686 | currently we use "protocolVersion": 32, but what is "protocolVersion": 15 ? |
| 15:36:00 | sam686 | http://208.107.52.15/hg.php/log/tip/zap/version.h - it looks like CS_PROTOCOL_VERSION < 32 was used to be in game.h |
| 15:38:00 | watusimoto | where did the 15 come from? |
| 15:39:00 | raptor | we have a bunch of players on protocol 15 right now |
| 15:39:00 | raptor | errr... did |
| 15:41:00 | raptor | there were 10 players all in two separate games on protocol 15 |
| 15:41:00 | raptor | maybe they don't know they should update to 015a |
| 15:41:00 | sam686 | http://208.107.52.15/hg.php/file/fa73ca5ac427/zap/game.h (CS_PROTOCOL_VERSION 15) |
| 15:41:00 | sam686 | i think that is version 010 or something |
| 15:41:00 | watusimoto | ah... was it a large group that popped up for about an hour? |
| 15:41:00 | raptor | yes |
| 15:41:00 | watusimoto | ok, I think I know who they are |
| 15:42:00 | watusimoto | could be a hs shop class? |
| 15:42:00 | watusimoto | slightly juvenile names? |
| 15:42:00 | raptor | yes :) |
| 15:42:00 | raptor | definitely a school class |
| 15:42:00 | watusimoto | jimmy_loves_dick, names like that? |
| 15:42:00 | raptor | yep |
| 15:42:00 | raptor | although they have been cleaner today |
| 15:43:00 | watusimoto | I meant Dick as in Richard. they are a shop class, probably installed the game a couple of years ago on the computers there, and never updated |
| 15:43:00 | watusimoto | this was before we had the autoupdater |
| 15:43:00 | watusimoto | they may not have permissions to update anyway.. who knows? |
| 15:43:00 | watusimoto | so, probably using an ancient version of the game |
| 15:43:00 | watusimoto | but they play on a locked server anyway |
| 15:44:00 | raptor | ah ok |
| 15:44:00 | raptor | i've been trying to catch some of them in the master chat to ask them if they can update, but is the master even compatible? |
| 15:45:00 | sam686 | maybe, we should put a list of CS_PROTOCOL_VERSION that go with which version 013 / 012 / 011 / 010? |
| 15:46:00 | sam686 | http://208.107.52.15/hg.php/log/7752a7000cee/zap/game.h this shows the version change history in 014 and earliear |
| 15:46:00 | raptor | yeah, add it to the wiki |
| 15:46:00 | sam686 | or that might be better in wiki |
| 15:47:00 | sam686 | http://208.107.52.15/hg.php/log/7752a7000cee/zap/game.h?revcount=480 will show more in history |
| 15:50:00 | watusimoto | I know who the teacher is; sent him an email once, he never responded |
| 15:52:00 | raptor | is it a HS here in utah? |
| 15:52:00 | raptor | like lindon or orem? |
| 15:53:00 | watusimoto | might be |
| 15:58:00 | watusimoto | i'm off |
| 15:58:00 | raptor | bye |
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| 16:20:00 | watusimoto | someone didn |
| 16:21:00 | watusimoto | didn't pay the bills, and now my household goods are being held in England awaiting payment from one transfer company to another |
| 16:21:00 | watusimoto | meanwhile, my kids continue to sleep on a sheet of cardboard. |
| 16:21:00 | watusimoto | what crap |
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| 16:21:00 | raptor | !! |
| 16:21:00 | watusimoto | Indeed. This trip is just working out swimmingly |
| 16:22:00 | raptor | the incompetence is startling |
| 16:22:00 | watusimoto | it is. |
| 16:22:00 | raptor | help me not form negative opinions of european business workings - is this common place? |
| 16:23:00 | watusimoto | well, at least I'm able to watch some of the rugby world cup games... |
| 16:23:00 | watusimoto | tonight we're watching Ireland v. Wales |
| 16:23:00 | watusimoto | they played on saturday |
| 16:23:00 | watusimoto | we saw the France v. NZ game... it was fantastic |
| 16:34:00 | watusimoto | to be fair, none of the problems, aside from the DSL issue, are related to european businesses |
| 16:34:00 | watusimoto | the shipment was held up because a US firm didn't transfer the money they were supposed to, and a UK firm didn't tell me until it was too late to reolve |
| 16:35:00 | watusimoto | the visa issue is mostly the result of a government agency not doing their job, and, possibly, because my employer (an institute, not a firm) didn't do what they were asked to do |
| 16:36:00 | watusimoto | just curious... have you seen much of large american businesses up close that makes you feel that they somehow work well? |
| 16:42:00 | raptor | sorry, my boss needed to talk to me for a bit |
| 16:43:00 | raptor | in answer to your question - I have rarely seen large US business work well |
| 16:44:00 | raptor | mostly because the many layers between the lords and serfs lend to apathy from above |
| 16:44:00 | raptor | and the top is mostly a big boys club |
| 16:52:00 | watusimoto | same as it is everywere, I suspect |
| 16:52:00 | raptor | but i like to think that there are usually a few good serfs that keep things together... |
| 16:53:00 | watusimoto | ironically, the best functioning environments Ilve worked in have been governmental |
| 16:53:00 | watusimoto | in Portland, and in Australia |
| 16:54:00 | raptor | how big were the governments? town / county /state? |
| 16:56:00 | raptor | in my experience size is the biggest factor - the smaller the more competent |
| 17:52:00 | karamazovapy | classic - http://bitfighter.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=928&p=6974 |
| 17:54:00 | watusimoto | regional, smaller |
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| 18:51:00 | raptor | sadly i don't have a flickr account |
| 18:51:00 | raptor | maybe no so sadly |
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| 20:06:00 | raptor | hi watusimoto |
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| 20:49:00 | raptor | yeah, so i met 5 germans today |
| 20:49:00 | raptor | i offered peanut butter sandwich to one who was looking for lunch |
| 20:49:00 | raptor | i got an expression of utter revulsion |
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| 21:15:00 | karamazovapy | germans respond strangely to nuttsy-ism these days |
| 21:15:00 | karamazovapy | ouch. that one even hurt me. |
| 21:17:00 | raptor | is peanut butter a uniquely american thing? |
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| 21:18:00 | karamazovapy | I don't *think* so |
| 21:19:00 | karamazovapy | the forums are seriously going pear-shaped |
| 21:19:00 | karamazovapy | weird shit just keeps springing up everywhere |
| 21:20:00 | raptor | yeah... sometimes i wonder if it'd be good to have lock-down mondays or something |
| 21:20:00 | sam686 | ShadowX may be one problem maker... |
| 21:20:00 | raptor | force everyone to take a day off |
| 21:20:00 | karamazovapy | I suspect that censoring or punishing or even acknowledging shadow would just make him worse |
| 21:21:00 | karamazovapy | if we can ride out the storm, I'm hoping he'll get over himself once he's got a year of college under his belt |
| 21:22:00 | karamazovapy | of course, if someone else wants to do something, I won't fight it...but I'm not taking any responsibility for it either |
| 21:23:00 | raptor | i think the standard deflating response might apply: 'cool story, bro' |
| 21:26:00 | sam686 | could be possible to add some filters that prevents the use of some works like s**t or b**h |
| 21:26:00 | karamazovapy | like I said...you're welcome to post...but I take no responsibility for the inevitable meme-down |
| 21:26:00 | karamazovapy | I don't think we're going to make any effort to censor swear words |
| 21:27:00 | karamazovapy | it's come up in the past and the consensus has been that it isn't worth trying to police people for that type of behavior |
| 21:27:00 | raptor | agreed |
| 21:29:00 | sam686 | there also been some topics that seem to slowly go off topic and different from what was in the first post |
| 21:30:00 | raptor | you mena like 90% of them? |
| 21:30:00 | sam686 | like, this went off topic. http://bitfighter.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=862 |
| 21:31:00 | raptor | kevin was a good addition to that thread... |
| 21:35:00 | karamazovapy | yeah, I see that happen, but often it's not worth splitting the thread |
| 21:35:00 | karamazovapy | I have been merging new threads that revisit old ideas, though |
| 21:35:00 | raptor | that is useful, i think |
| 21:36:00 | karamazovapy | yeah, you don't have to rehash the old conversation that way |
| 21:36:00 | karamazovapy | I also move threads between subforums fairly often |
| 21:36:00 | karamazovapy | usually from gen discussion to features |
| 21:40:00 | sam686 | obviously, some players including Opti, seem to not like swear words.. |
| 21:41:00 | karamazovapy | and we should all avoid cursing...but no one will be fooled by s**t instead of shit, and it's over the top to substitute something like "poop" |
| 21:42:00 | raptor | content filters are a good way to waste ones' youth coding... |
| 21:42:00 | karamazovapy | if we change to "knrl" and "tnzr" people will just go with sh!t and f.uck |
| 21:42:00 | raptor | acutally i would like a history lesson on 'knrl' and tnzr |
| 21:42:00 | raptor | actually |
| 21:43:00 | raptor | can you enlighten me? |
| 21:43:00 | karamazovapy | I don't even remember tnzr |
| 21:43:00 | karamazovapy | but zoomber claims it was in the game |
| 21:43:00 | karamazovapy | Zap! had a swear filter |
| 21:43:00 | raptor | oh boy |
| 21:43:00 | raptor | i bet that was fun to play with |
| 21:43:00 | karamazovapy | knrl was the one I remember popping up all the time...let me launch the old version and swear a bit |
| 21:44:00 | sam686 | yes, zap appear to have word filter in-game, client side, which could be turned off if user don't want word filtering.. |
| 21:44:00 | karamazovapy | I'm talking about garagegames zap! |
| 21:45:00 | sam686 | I don't remember if instantaction version had word filtering, but i never saw swear words there.. |
| 21:46:00 | karamazovapy | it looks like zap! created random-ish four letter words |
| 21:46:00 | raptor | so more than those two? |
| 21:46:00 | sam686 | zoomber went to tell me to download the garagegame zap version, for seeing some differences... |
| 21:46:00 | karamazovapy | but I think the first one was usually knrl |
| 21:46:00 | raptor | garagegames zap! was the original source to bitfighter, correct? |
| 21:47:00 | karamazovapy | yes |
| 21:47:00 | karamazovapy | the earliest version didn't have a word filter |
| 21:48:00 | sam686 | there may be some changes to zap version that did not show up in source code history, like word filtering code was not seen in source code version of zap |
| 21:48:00 | karamazovapy | right - the source was only the earliest version |
| 21:48:00 | raptor | oh really? |
| 21:48:00 | karamazovapy | yep |
| 21:48:00 | raptor | so they closed source later releases? |
| 21:48:00 | karamazovapy | yep |
| 21:49:00 | karamazovapy | I'm not sure it was ever *technically* an open source game |
| 21:49:00 | sam686 | the SpeedZone was mostly different between bitfighter and Zap, as if early verion of zap did not have speed zone at all it seems. |
| 21:50:00 | karamazovapy | it didn't |
| 21:50:00 | karamazovapy | or the updated burst graphic |
| 21:50:00 | karamazovapy | or bots |
| 21:50:00 | karamazovapy | or any number of other things |
| 21:50:00 | karamazovapy | I'm reading the EULA for the first release |
| 21:51:00 | karamazovapy | YOU MAY: (i) load the software into RAM as well as install it on a hard drive or other storage device, and (ii) make one copy for backup purposes. |
| 21:51:00 | karamazovapy | YOU MAY NOT: modify, translate, disassemble, reverse engineer, decompile, or create derivative work based upon the Software. |
| 21:52:00 | karamazovapy | of course, the original code was made available under a public license, so they can't really claim those rights |
| 21:52:00 | sam686 | like, from this? http://opentnl.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/opentnl/tnl/LICENSE.txt?revision=1.1&view=markup |
| 21:53:00 | karamazovapy | yep |
| 21:57:00 | karamazovapy | http://www.macworld.com/article/31352/2004/04/tnl.html |
| 21:57:00 | raptor | i see - the release code for zap! was just to demo the network library TNL |
| 21:57:00 | karamazovapy | yep |
| 21:59:00 | watusimoto | I just got the story that was offending k off the home page |
| 21:59:00 | karamazovapy | http://opentnl.sourceforge.net/doxydocs/ |
| 21:59:00 | raptor | what what? |
| 21:59:00 | watusimoto | I sooooooo want to move bitfighter.org to a place where we can all have write access |
| 22:00:00 | karamazovapy | Finally, the ZAP project puts it all together in a 2D overhead team-based client/server space arcade action game, featuring a LAN/internet server browser, object interpolation and extrapolation, a client-side prediction model, and a more complete demonstration of the advanced features of the Torque Network Library. |
| 22:01:00 | karamazovapy | raptor: the home page had news items that were from february |
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| 22:01:00 | [1]watusimoto | he was working on tnl2.0 and we were discussing making a streamlined version of bitfighter be the demo project for that |
| 22:02:00 | [1]watusimoto | luxembourg hates me |
| 22:02:00 | karamazovapy | oooh...neat |
| 22:02:00 | [1]watusimoto | I don;t know if tnl2.0 is done or what |
| 22:02:00 | [1]watusimoto | and I'm not sure I want to do the porting |
| 22:03:00 | [1]watusimoto | or if it's even worht considering |
| 22:04:00 | raptor | [1]watusimoto: i think i missed the first part of that conversation |
| 22:04:00 | sam686 | TNL changes that we have done is mostly Vector.. |
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| 22:04:00 | raptor | i got: "he was working..." |
| 22:04:00 | | [1]watusimoto is now known as watusimoto |
| 22:04:00 | watusimoto | btw, I've had a face-to-face meeting with the original author of zap |
| 22:04:00 | watusimoto | that was the first sentence |
| 22:04:00 | raptor | ah ok |
| 22:04:00 | karamazovapy | really? |
| 22:04:00 | raptor | when was that? |
| 22:05:00 | watusimoto | before that came I sooooooo want to move bitfighter.org to a place where we can all have write access |
| 22:05:00 | watusimoto | the meeting was about ... oh... 1.5 years ago??? |
| 22:05:00 | watusimoto | he was working on a project and was in Portland and we got together for coffee |
| 22:05:00 | raptor | neat |
| 22:06:00 | watusimoto | it was, kind of |
| 22:06:00 | raptor | (and yes, if i could get access to bitfighter.org I could maintain a few pages better) |
| 22:06:00 | watusimoto | we all could |
| 22:07:00 | karamazovapy | oh - by the way - it's the 1 year anniversary of bitfightervideo |
| 22:07:00 | watusimoto | ! |
| 22:07:00 | karamazovapy | and therefore, the first ever BBB |
| 22:07:00 | watusimoto | I can buy another webhost |
| 22:07:00 | watusimoto | but the problem is everything is now so interconnected |
| 22:07:00 | raptor | i think that means it's my first aniversay of finding and contributing to bitfighter... |
| 22:07:00 | watusimoto | phpbb logins in the wiki |
| 22:08:00 | watusimoto | json on the homepage and in the forums |
| 22:08:00 | sam686 | umm, the master and username authentication? |
| 22:08:00 | watusimoto | yes, that too |
| 22:08:00 | watusimoto | so I'm not sure how to gradually transition over to a new host |
| 22:08:00 | watusimoto | we could use bitfighter.net |
| 22:08:00 | watusimoto | as a bridge somehow |
| 22:08:00 | raptor | 11 Oct is when I joined |
| 22:08:00 | raptor | tomorrow |
| 22:09:00 | watusimoto | congratulations! |
| 22:09:00 | raptor | thanks! :) |
| 22:09:00 | watusimoto | 1 lost year! |
| 22:09:00 | raptor | hehe |
| 22:09:00 | karamazovapy | 1 year, 6,335 video views for the youtube account |
| 22:09:00 | watusimoto | maybe we should make sure that sam's fallback master servers tuff is working |
| 22:09:00 | watusimoto | for 016 |
| 22:10:00 | sam686 | better control of server might be good, no unexpected update to php that breaks wiki... |
| 22:10:00 | watusimoto | and then we could get the new host prior to release |
| 22:10:00 | raptor | I think that since I learned C/C++, mercurial, several frameworks, OSX/Windows building, extra linux distro building - it wasn't a complete waste |
| 22:10:00 | watusimoto | and put both ips into the game |
| 22:10:00 | watusimoto | then transition after that |
| 22:11:00 | watusimoto | would that work? |
| 22:12:00 | raptor | I think so |
| 22:12:00 | watusimoto | sam? |
| 22:12:00 | sam686 | if there are so many views in youtube bitfighter, why aren't there is many players in bitfighter? |
| 22:12:00 | raptor | speaking of 016, when will we stop the feature creep and just to bugfixing? |
| 22:13:00 | watusimoto | shortly before the release, I'd guess. |
| 22:13:00 | watusimoto | :-) |
| 22:13:00 | raptor | hehe |
| 22:13:00 | raptor | yeah yeah |
| 22:13:00 | watusimoto | I'm soemwhat to blame with all my stupid refactoring |
| 22:13:00 | raptor | do you think most of the major refactoring is done? |
| 22:13:00 | watusimoto | but I'm trying to do some bugfixing as well |
| 22:13:00 | watusimoto | certainly |
| 22:14:00 | watusimoto | at least for now :-) |
| 22:14:00 | watusimoto | the editor was huge |
| 22:14:00 | raptor | ha! |
| 22:14:00 | raptor | yeah that was big |
| 22:14:00 | watusimoto | the clientinfos were painful but architecturally insignificant, given that I went in a big circle |
| 22:14:00 | raptor | do you think we should have a beta period? SDL is a major change... |
| 22:14:00 | watusimoto | the lua stuff I'm doing now is pretty minor |
| 22:15:00 | watusimoto | probably, but we never do well with betas |
| 22:15:00 | watusimoto | there are still some sdl glitches on windows |
| 22:15:00 | watusimoto | we need to figure out how to make the transition to/frum full screen smoother |
| 22:15:00 | raptor | it's instant for me and my VM :) |
| 22:15:00 | watusimoto | and Ilve noticed some strange window resizing issues |
| 22:16:00 | watusimoto | like I press a key and the window shrinks 10% |
| 22:16:00 | watusimoto | how do the windows feel on linux? |
| 22:16:00 | raptor | that... sounds like more than an SDL issue |
| 22:16:00 | sam686 | yes, sdl sometimes makes my second monitor blink black when switching from fullscreen to window, GLUT didn't do that.. |
| 22:16:00 | watusimoto | glut switched instantly and gracefully |
| 22:17:00 | watusimoto | one of the few things it did well |
| 22:17:00 | raptor | yes - that's because GLUT didn't have a 'fullscreen mod' |
| 22:17:00 | raptor | mode |
| 22:17:00 | watusimoto | it had "game mode" |
| 22:17:00 | watusimoto | which was fullscreen |
| 22:17:00 | sam686 | glut on my computer can switch to / from sullscreen about 30 times a second, no flicker at all.. |
| 22:18:00 | raptor | SDL fullscreen seems to be a different beast all together |
| 22:18:00 | raptor | GLUT full screen still wasn't technically 'full screen' as in take full control of the monitor |
| 22:18:00 | watusimoto | SDL is pretty mainstream |
| 22:19:00 | watusimoto | not sure why our fullscreen mode seems so ungraceful |
| 22:19:00 | raptor | i know |
| 22:19:00 | sam686 | sdl seem slower switching to / from fullscreen, but seem no problem for me right now, except i can't move my mouse to second screen. |
| 22:19:00 | raptor | SDL clears all OpenGL textures and such upon full screen |
| 22:19:00 | watusimoto | I'd like to try another sdl game and see if they have the same issues |
| 22:20:00 | raptor | xmoto |
| 22:20:00 | raptor | is one |
| 22:20:00 | watusimoto | but we don't use any textures |
| 22:20:00 | watusimoto | so it shouldn't have to load lots of stuff |
| 22:20:00 | raptor | we do for oglconsole |
| 22:20:00 | raptor | but that is just one |
| 22:20:00 | sam686 | while glut let me move mouse to second monitor, and fullscreen never minimises, glut won't let me in fullscreen.. |
| 22:21:00 | watusimoto | is that how the font is done? |
| 22:21:00 | raptor | yes |
| 22:21:00 | raptor | SDL also requires a video reinitialization when switching to/from full screen |
| 22:21:00 | raptor | that is where the slow down is |
| 22:21:00 | raptor | and if you are using a hardware surface - your video driver/card might not be very quick with it |
| 22:22:00 | watusimoto | oddly, when I do a search for sdl fullscreen slow, I don;t see much |
| 22:22:00 | watusimoto | if others were seeing what I see on my machine, they'd never use sdl |
| 22:22:00 | sam686 | the console font is texture, packedfont.c is where it stores 1 bit per pixel font data.. |
| 22:22:00 | watusimoto | I see |
| 22:23:00 | watusimoto | I wonder if there is a way to not go to "full screen mode" but instead to simply fill the monitor, hide the title bar and pretend |
| 22:23:00 | raptor | yes |
| 22:23:00 | raptor | like GLUT |
| 22:23:00 | watusimoto | yes |
| 22:23:00 | raptor | i wonder, too |
| 22:23:00 | watusimoto | that might work better |
| 22:23:00 | watusimoto | that's all we need -- we don't need to change the system resolution, or whatever it's doing |
| 22:23:00 | raptor | yeah... |
| 22:24:00 | sam686 | except i don't want to see a border on the edge of fullscreen on my second monitor, though there was no border in GLUT.. |
| 22:24:00 | sam686 | i mean no border in GLUT Fullscreen.. |
| 22:25:00 | watusimoto | right -- I agree |
| 22:25:00 | watusimoto | need to do away with all window doodads |
| 22:25:00 | watusimoto | just contents |
| 22:25:00 | raptor | were we able to resize GLUT full screen before? |
| 22:26:00 | raptor | because I cannot with 015a, and I thought we could |
| 22:26:00 | sam686 | fullscreen in GLUT does not erase textures like SDL in windows does.. |
| 22:26:00 | watusimoto | hitting alt-enter should go to fullscreen in 015a |
| 22:27:00 | raptor | somebody did something to alt+enter with 016, i cannot rapid fire change resolution |
| 22:27:00 | watusimoto | SDL_SetVideoMode has a noframe option |
| 22:27:00 | raptor | anymore |
| 22:28:00 | raptor | really?? |
| 22:28:00 | raptor | that might be it... |
| 22:28:00 | watusimoto | http://www.libsdl.org/docs/html/sdlsetvideomode.html |
| 22:28:00 | watusimoto | last option |
| 22:28:00 | watusimoto | could disable resize |
| 22:28:00 | watusimoto | SDL will attempt to use a fullscreen mode. If a hardware resolution change is not possible (for whatever reason), the next higher resolution will be used and the display window centered on a black background. |
| 22:29:00 | watusimoto | so proper fullscreen mode does trigger a system resolution change |
| 22:29:00 | raptor | yes |
| 22:29:00 | watusimoto | that makes things slower |
| 22:29:00 | watusimoto | glut did not do that |
| 22:29:00 | sam686 | also, glut appears to do v-sync triple buffer on my computer, when fullscreen. in history, there was a fullscreen flicker problem bug, if you remember it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7hnOxPXNCQ |
| 22:29:00 | watusimoto | and we don;t need it, if we can avoid it |
| 22:29:00 | watusimoto | yes |
| 22:29:00 | raptor | i remember that! |
| 22:29:00 | sam686 | forum of flicker bug: http://bitfighter.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=378#p2970 |
| 22:29:00 | watusimoto | that bug had to do with the black bars |
| 22:29:00 | watusimoto | not being cleared properly |
| 22:30:00 | sam686 | and that was GLUT, and my computer was doing triple buffer fullscreen.. |
| 22:30:00 | watusimoto | unfortunately |
| 22:30:00 | watusimoto | ... |
| 22:31:00 | watusimoto | for a pseudo full screen mode to work, we need to be able to position the window |
| 22:31:00 | watusimoto | not sure we can do that in sdl |
| 22:31:00 | sam686 | bitfighter looks very smooth with v-sync to monitor refresh rate.. |
| 22:31:00 | watusimoto | we need to align ul pixel with 0,0 |
| 22:31:00 | raptor | i think that's the default with SDL |
| 22:32:00 | sam686 | in bitfighter.ini, there is WindowXPos= |
| 22:32:00 | raptor | doesn't work with SDL |
| 22:33:00 | raptor | i had to ignore it |
| 22:33:00 | raptor | or at least I couldn't figure it out |
| 22:34:00 | sam686 | in glut, (0,0) put that rendering in top left with top and left border went off screen, leaving only the rendering area.. |
| 22:35:00 | sam686 | actually maybe not.. |
| 22:35:00 | watusimoto | I'm freezing out here on my porch, and i't getting late, so I'm signing off |
| 22:35:00 | raptor | ok good night |
| 22:35:00 | raptor | i'll do more bugs tonight |
| 22:35:00 | watusimoto | But I will try to focus a little more on closing cases |
| 22:36:00 | raptor | yay |
| 22:36:00 | watusimoto | we do need a few features to make upgrading to 016 inviting |
| 22:36:00 | watusimoto | but maybe wiht soccer fixes and the new gametype I hope to work on sometime that will be enough |
| 22:36:00 | raptor | like secondary module components? |
| 22:36:00 | watusimoto | yes, like those |
| 22:36:00 | raptor | oh |
| 22:36:00 | raptor | soccer |
| 22:36:00 | raptor | are we removing pickup? |
| 22:36:00 | watusimoto | I vote yes |
| 22:36:00 | raptor | me too |
| 22:37:00 | watusimoto | good idea, just didn;t work out. |
| 22:37:00 | sam686 | maybe ok.. |
| 22:37:00 | raptor | should we just default it to no, wait a release then remove the code? |
| 22:37:00 | watusimoto | I think we should just do it |
| 22:37:00 | raptor | slice and dice? |
| 22:37:00 | watusimoto | with a few exceptions, it just doesn;t add to the game |
| 22:38:00 | watusimoto | fewer options == fewer bugs |
| 22:38:00 | watusimoto | that's my feeling, anyway |
| 22:38:00 | raptor | ok |
| 22:38:00 | watusimoto | so |
| 22:38:00 | watusimoto | goodnight! |
| 22:38:00 | raptor | night! |
| 22:41:00 | karamazovapy | if we add a gametype I'm going to have to scurry to come up with some maps |
| 22:43:00 | | watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 22:44:00 | raptor | three new kserv maps! |
| 22:44:00 | raptor | sam686: can i give you a patch to test on 016? |
| 22:44:00 | sam686 | ok |
| 22:45:00 | raptor | http://208.107.52.15/upload/fake_fullscreen.diff |
| 22:45:00 | raptor | this tries to make fullscreen more GLUT-like |
| 22:45:00 | raptor | i wonder what it looks like on windows |
| 22:48:00 | sam686 | It got rid of borders, but off center... |
| 22:49:00 | raptor | off center because of two monitors? |
| 22:49:00 | sam686 | this is what i see: http://208.107.52.15/bitfighter/sdl_noborder.png |
| 22:49:00 | sam686 | i can try with second screen disabled |
| 22:50:00 | raptor | i don't acthally see anything... |
| 22:50:00 | raptor | oh wait, you mean the editor window? |
| 22:51:00 | sam686 | still the same, editor or not editor don't make a difference |
| 22:51:00 | sam686 | second monitor disabled, still off center |
| 22:52:00 | raptor | can you giv eme screen shot with second monitor disabled? |
| 22:52:00 | sam686 | http://208.107.52.15/bitfighter/sdl_noborder2.png |
| 22:53:00 | raptor | thansk |
| 22:53:00 | raptor | rats |
| 22:53:00 | raptor | on linux it defaults to 0, 0 |
| 22:53:00 | raptor | i'll have to look more into it... |
| 22:54:00 | raptor | ok, i'm heading home from work... be back a bit later |
| 22:54:00 | sam686 | ok |
| 22:56:00 | | raptor Quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:16:00 | | watusimoto has joined |
| 23:23:00 | | watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 23:28:00 | | raptor has joined |
| 23:28:00 | | ChanServ sets mode +o raptor |
| 23:28:00 | raptor | ok, let's solve this pseudo full-screen mode problem.. |
