Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
| 00:01:00 | raptor | yay everything compiles! |
| 00:03:00 | | BFLogBot - Commit d4934b6afdba | Author: buckyballreaction | Log: Fix issue 74. Vertices are now treated as a normal move when dragged to the dock |
| 00:08:00 | raptor | 47 issues left! |
| 00:08:00 | raptor | been a while since we |
| 00:08:00 | raptor | ve been so low.. |
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| 01:31:00 | karamazovapy | lots of talky in here |
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| 03:46:00 | raptor | lively tonight |
| 03:54:00 | raptor | i still can't believe how enlightening little_apple's video is... |
| 04:24:00 | raptor | sam686: karamazovapy: do we want this?: http://code.google.com/p/bitfighter/issues/detail?id=124 |
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| 15:08:00 | karamazovapy | the Playa zapped ChumpChange! message separation is kind of interesting...basically, it's giving kills their own message feed directly above other game messages |
| 15:08:00 | karamazovapy | I think they also have a slightly longer decay time versus other game messages |
| 15:09:00 | karamazovapy | might make it easier to read what's going on. I don't have much of an opinion, though |
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| 15:11:00 | raptor | do you think the killed messages should be separated somehow? Or would a combination like Zoomber's issue suggests be enough |
| 15:11:00 | karamazovapy | you mean raptor zapped 1, 2, 3, 4! ? |
| 15:12:00 | raptor | yes |
| 15:12:00 | raptor | (if this is what you're talking about...) |
| 15:14:00 | karamazovapy | well it's adding to each line instead of having individual lines that makes things more readable |
| 15:14:00 | raptor | was that part of the original zap! demo? |
| 15:15:00 | karamazovapy | it was in at least one of the versions of Zap!...zoomber and I noticed it when we were playing around |
| 15:21:00 | raptor | i guess i just wasn't sure that it was an 'approved' feature request - i don't remember talking about it |
| 15:22:00 | karamazovapy | it's not an "approved" feature request |
| 15:22:00 | karamazovapy | I think some people are fuzzy on that rule |
| 15:24:00 | raptor | ok, so, due to the ambiguity around the issue - I'm going to just pretend I didn't see it for now... |
| 15:32:00 | karamazovapy | I don't think it would be hard or particularly controversial to give it a shot, but it also isn't high priority |
| 15:41:00 | raptor | "small but friendly community" |
| 15:41:00 | raptor | hehe |
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| 15:45:00 | watusimoto | hello |
| 15:45:00 | raptor | good day |
| 15:48:00 | raptor | testing issue 96 |
| 15:49:00 | raptor | looks like it's fixed... |
| 15:52:00 | watusimoto | great! what was it? |
| 15:52:00 | raptor | editor undo glitch |
| 15:52:00 | watusimoto | fixed the random green text |
| 15:52:00 | raptor | hooray! |
| 15:52:00 | raptor | what was it? |
| 15:52:00 | watusimoto | string -> const char * confusion |
| 15:52:00 | watusimoto | just as I predicted |
| 15:53:00 | raptor | yeah |
| 15:53:00 | raptor | so |
| 15:53:00 | raptor | i was meaning to ask about that |
| 15:53:00 | raptor | i see lots of methods with 'const char *' |
| 15:53:00 | raptor | in their signature |
| 15:53:00 | watusimoto | yes |
| 15:53:00 | raptor | should I switch them to string? |
| 15:53:00 | raptor | to be tidy/consistent? |
| 15:54:00 | watusimoto | Here's how I've been approaching it: |
| 15:54:00 | watusimoto | some methods inherently take a const char * at their bottom |
| 15:54:00 | watusimoto | like, say logprintf |
| 15:54:00 | raptor | yup |
| 15:54:00 | raptor | and that's where i force the .c_str() |
| 15:55:00 | watusimoto | if we are working with a method like that, and just passing a value around without working on it, I just create it as a const char * and leave it at that |
| 15:55:00 | watusimoto | but if it's something we manipulate, then I use string because it's safer |
| 15:55:00 | watusimoto | and, usually, easier |
| 15:55:00 | raptor | ok |
| 15:56:00 | watusimoto | but I figure why create a string object with its (admittedly small) overhead when it doesn't make something easier |
| 15:56:00 | raptor | make sense |
| 15:56:00 | watusimoto | but when it does make something easier, then no reason not to use string |
| 15:56:00 | watusimoto | when I first started on bf, there were no strings |
| 15:56:00 | raptor | \i was just thinking more along the lines of passing references & also |
| 15:56:00 | watusimoto | so every string was either ported from a const char * or is a new bit of code |
| 15:57:00 | watusimoto | i always pass a const string &ref when passing strings |
| 15:57:00 | watusimoto | unless there is a good reason not to, and then I try to comment it |
| 15:57:00 | raptor | yes |
| 15:57:00 | raptor | ok |
| 15:58:00 | watusimoto | there's only a couple of places we do that, such as when we deliberatley want to make a copy of the object, or when we're rturning a value in the string param, but those are very rare |
| 15:58:00 | watusimoto | so that's how I see it anyway |
| 15:58:00 | watusimoto | context and all that :-) |
| 15:59:00 | raptor | ok |
| 16:00:00 | raptor | so i've been just constantly fixing issues and minor bugs... |
| 16:00:00 | raptor | (and ask about issues) |
| 16:00:00 | watusimoto | fun, eh? |
| 16:00:00 | raptor | i started the object arrows one, but I got lost |
| 16:00:00 | raptor | objective arrows |
| 16:00:00 | watusimoto | I'm working on bugs tonight, too |
| 16:00:00 | watusimoto | leave it and do something else, if you like |
| 16:01:00 | raptor | well that's the thing - i've done that with 4 or 5 issues already :) |
| 16:01:00 | raptor | one i ant to complete is http://code.google.com/p/bitfighter/issues/detail?id=119 |
| 16:01:00 | raptor | want |
| 16:02:00 | raptor | I thought I already had... but I didnt' quite understand your response |
| 16:05:00 | | BFLogBot - Commit 0d7763af3227 | Author: watusim...@bitfighter.org | Log: Remove comments |
| 16:05:00 | | BFLogBot - Commit f61b761373f4 | Author: watusim...@bitfighter.org | Log: BUGIX: No more random green chars on the menus; also used simpler constructor where appropriate |
| 16:05:00 | | BFLogBot - Commit a7595038d009 | Author: watusim...@bitfighter.org | Log: Merge |
| 16:06:00 | raptor | ah yes, null terminated character arrays |
| 16:06:00 | raptor | yay |
| 16:06:00 | watusimoto | ok |
| 16:06:00 | watusimoto | maybe you did fix this |
| 16:07:00 | watusimoto | what's an example of a command you consider fixed by this case? |
| 16:07:00 | raptor | looking |
| 16:07:00 | raptor | i added one recently... |
| 16:08:00 | raptor | aach, where'd they go? |
| 16:09:00 | raptor | i had them all inserted into that struct at one point... i thought |
| 16:10:00 | watusimoto | well, maybe you answered the question |
| 16:10:00 | raptor | take a look at this revision: http://code.google.com/p/bitfighter/source/browse/zap/UIGame.cpp?spec=svnb79ec30e0563e10b65029ce1fccde0b00d379490&name=b79ec30e0563&r=b79ec30e0563e10b65029ce1fccde0b00d379490 |
| 16:10:00 | watusimoto | it is my opinion that they should not work without being added to the struct |
| 16:11:00 | raptor | i agree with you |
| 16:11:00 | watusimoto | the struct should be the essence of the command |
| 16:11:00 | raptor | search for 'banip' on that page |
| 16:11:00 | watusimoto | and it was my impression that you added them to the struct, but that you could have removed them from the struct again without breaking the command |
| 16:12:00 | raptor | i had added: ban, banip, gmute, resetscore, a couple others |
| 16:12:00 | raptor | must have been a abad merge somewhere... |
| 16:12:00 | watusimoto | probably my fautl :-) |
| 16:12:00 | watusimoto | but let's use that as an example |
| 16:12:00 | raptor | ok |
| 16:13:00 | watusimoto | if you added that to the struct without changing anything else, then in my mind it still breaks the design |
| 16:13:00 | raptor | so for instance, i added 'resetscore' (which survived teh merge) |
| 16:13:00 | raptor | it calles: GameUserInterface::serverCommandHandler |
| 16:15:00 | watusimoto | so maybe instead of putting the string in serverCommandHandler, maybe we shoudl create a separate function that gets called directly without having to search for the string "banip" |
| 16:15:00 | watusimoto | if that makes sense |
| 16:16:00 | watusimoto | it seems that serverCommandHandler somewhat bypasses the design for these commands |
| 16:17:00 | watusimoto | though now I'm wondering if I've confused myself |
| 16:17:00 | watusimoto | because serverCommandHandler isn't hardly any code at all |
| 16:18:00 | watusimoto | The command I don't like is processServerCommand |
| 16:18:00 | watusimoto | because it's a huge mess of code doing all sorts of things |
| 16:18:00 | watusimoto | but the command struct doesn't really interact with that at all |
| 16:19:00 | watusimoto | ok, I got to make dinner for my grumpy kids |
| 16:20:00 | watusimoto | if what I wrote doesn't make sense, we can discuss it later |
| 16:41:00 | raptor | ok, i'm back |
| 16:41:00 | raptor | peoples have left my officle |
| 16:42:00 | raptor | yes, that makes perfect sense - i don't like 'processServerCommand' either |
| 16:42:00 | raptor | officle = office + cubicle |
| 17:05:00 | raptor | sigh, opti |
| 17:05:00 | | BFLogBot - Commit c73c759b88ac | Author: buckyballreaction | Log: Restore commands to CommandInfo struct that were lost somehow |
| 17:07:00 | raptor | http://code.google.com/p/bitfighter/issues/detail?id=130 <- karamazovapy, watusimoto, sam686, what do you think about this? (Have I asked before?) |
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| 17:45:00 | watusimoto | I wonder if we canuse that same struct on the client and server sides?? |
| 17:45:00 | raptor | hi |
| 17:45:00 | watusimoto | actually, that probably wouldn't work |
| 17:46:00 | raptor | yeah |
| 17:46:00 | raptor | so, from the client |
| 17:46:00 | raptor | GameUserInterface::serverCommandHandler -> c2sSendCommand -> processServerCommand |
| 17:47:00 | raptor | and processServerCommand handles a dozen or so in a big if statement |
| 17:47:00 | sam686 | there need to be some kind of transfer between server and client, as in server send struct, client receive struct, similar to gameStatistics. |
| 17:47:00 | raptor | watusimoto: you are thinking about creating a dozen or so new 'c2s' methods? |
| 17:48:00 | watusimoto | the way to fix it would be to create separate commands for each possibility in proccessServerCommand... but that would be a lot of commands. |
| 17:48:00 | watusimoto | back soon |
| 17:48:00 | raptor | I can do that |
| 17:48:00 | watusimoto | not sure we want to... |
| 17:48:00 | watusimoto | back in a sec |
| 17:48:00 | raptor | unless there is a performance problem somewhere... |
| 17:48:00 | watusimoto | in a minute |
| 17:48:00 | raptor | ok |
| 18:36:00 | watusimoto | back |
| 18:36:00 | raptor | welcome |
| 18:36:00 | watusimoto | so... do multiple methods make sense? |
| 18:36:00 | raptor | maybe |
| 18:37:00 | raptor | it seems that having only one c2s command is efficient, even though if server-side it is ugly |
| 18:38:00 | watusimoto | perhaps, but not necessarily |
| 18:38:00 | watusimoto | not sure how the methods work, but it may be as simple as sending an int to specify which c2sxxx is run |
| 18:38:00 | watusimoto | in which case running one would be as simple as running another |
| 18:38:00 | watusimoto | if that's the case, then multiple methods would be both clearer and more efficient |
| 18:39:00 | watusimoto | and would be easier to maintain |
| 18:39:00 | raptor | ah - i don't really understand teh ?2? architecture, but the clearness is better |
| 18:39:00 | sam686 | another problem is if a new, server side command is added during mid-life of a version as it happened to version 015 |
| 18:40:00 | sam686 | c2s is client to server |
| 18:40:00 | raptor | yes, i get that bit :) |
| 18:40:00 | raptor | just not how it is ultimately wrapped |
| 18:40:00 | raptor | i'm thinking about doing lots of commands: follow our current model |
| 18:43:00 | raptor | i'll get that done today, probably |
| 18:43:00 | raptor | then i can close another issue! |
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| 18:43:00 | [1]watusimoto | why don't we leave the framework for processServerCommand in place, but move the existing commands out into new single-purpose commands |
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| 18:43:00 | watusimoto | did that last msg get through? |
| 18:44:00 | raptor | about leaving framework in place? |
| 18:44:00 | raptor | got that |
| 18:45:00 | watusimoto | yes |
| 18:45:00 | watusimoto | ok; had a connection hiccup |
| 18:45:00 | watusimoto | anyone see a downside to that approach (aside from the work involved)? |
| 18:47:00 | raptor | not really |
| 18:47:00 | sam686 | i guess there is mostly no downside... |
| 18:50:00 | raptor | and besides, we can break compatibility with anything we want! |
| 18:50:00 | watusimoto | ok, let's do it |
| 18:53:00 | raptor | we can use the processCommandHandler for NOT breaking compatibility if needed... |
| 18:55:00 | watusimoto | exactly -- for mid-cycle commands |
| 18:55:00 | watusimoto | sam, this was on your buglist: |
| 18:55:00 | watusimoto | 2. SDL + Windows: While in menus, Pressing down arrow or up arrow will put mouse location back to the middle. |
| 18:55:00 | watusimoto | do you know if that's been fixed? I can't seem to reproduce it |
| 18:56:00 | watusimoto | it definitely is not a problem for me, either in window or in fullscreen |
| 18:56:00 | raptor | how is fake fullscreen? |
| 18:57:00 | watusimoto | much better |
| 18:57:00 | raptor | does it cover your task bar? |
| 18:57:00 | watusimoto | not as slick as GLUT, but definitely does the trick |
| 18:57:00 | watusimoto | yes |
| 18:57:00 | watusimoto | it's good |
| 18:57:00 | raptor | define 'slick as GLUT' |
| 18:57:00 | sam686 | some of "fake fullscreen" problems makes some real fullscreen problems go away, including "While in menus, Pressing down arrow or up arrow will put mouse location back to the middle." |
| 18:57:00 | watusimoto | ah, good! |
| 18:58:00 | watusimoto | GLUT was super fast. You can see SDL recomposing the screen. Not a problem, just feels a little slower |
| 18:58:00 | watusimoto | but I'm satisified |
| 18:58:00 | raptor | that may be my fault, too |
| 18:59:00 | raptor | i do a test run of the video hardware first to see if we can use hardware opengl |
| 18:59:00 | watusimoto | Maybe it resizes->redraws->recomposes? |
| 18:59:00 | raptor | then i set the videomode |
| 18:59:00 | raptor | oh actually that is a different problem |
| 18:59:00 | watusimoto | why do you do that test? |
| 18:59:00 | raptor | i don't know what your porblem is |
| 18:59:00 | watusimoto | it's not really a problem |
| 18:59:00 | raptor | I start by initializing hardware SDL, if it fails, I use software |
| 19:00:00 | watusimoto | interesting |
| 19:00:00 | watusimoto | what if you always used software? |
| 19:00:00 | watusimoto | well, who cares. it's great |
| 19:01:00 | sam686 | i get a result with it completely ignoring that HWOPENGL and swOpengl flags on both windows and linux (ubuntu) |
| 19:01:00 | sam686 | and it just does hardware opengl no matter what the game does... |
| 19:01:00 | sam686 | or software if hardware is not available.. |
| 19:01:00 | raptor | yea, i may not need my test, actually... |
| 19:02:00 | raptor | if so, it will get rid of the momentary blink upon start-up |
| 19:03:00 | sam686 | it just says "Using hardware opengl" even when I have hardware opengl disabled... |
| 19:04:00 | raptor | yeah, SDL may do it automatically already |
| 19:04:00 | raptor | more research needed... |
| 19:05:00 | raptor | for some reason on Mac, GLUT always used software, i think |
| 19:05:00 | raptor | so SDL with hardware is really giving mac users a performance boost |
| 19:06:00 | sam686 | i don't know, if you only used virtual machine for mac, it might not do hardware opengl, where real mac might have been doing hardware opengl, i guess... |
| 19:06:00 | sam686 | otherwise, all mac users will complain the game runs too slow.. |
| 19:07:00 | raptor | i wasn't testing on VM - i was relating zoomber's experiences |
| 19:08:00 | sam686 | what did zoomber say? |
| 19:09:00 | raptor | on his Mac machines he says the framerate for 016 builds can get up to a 1000 - with 015a he could only get to 60 or 90, I think |
| 19:09:00 | sam686 | i thought zoomber can get up to 1000 fps in version 015.. |
| 19:10:00 | sam686 | only when window size is small, i think.. |
| 19:10:00 | raptor | interesting - maybe we'll have to ask him and get facts sorted out |
| 19:10:00 | sam686 | must be more like the vsync problem |
| 19:11:00 | raptor | yeah, could be |
| 19:11:00 | raptor | anyways, it's bugfixin' time! |
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| 19:44:00 | raptor | watusimoto: did i ever get your opinion on: http://code.google.com/p/bitfighter/issues/detail?id=130 |
| 19:56:00 | watusimoto | no |
| 19:56:00 | watusimoto | I question the utility myself |
| 19:56:00 | watusimoto | restart attempts to add players in order of skill, making theoretically even teams |
| 19:56:00 | watusimoto | except our measure of skill is bogus |
| 19:56:00 | raptor | :) |
| 19:57:00 | watusimoto | scramble would just be random |
| 20:00:00 | watusimoto | I'd like to hear from sam and k on the utility of such a function |
| 20:00:00 | watusimoto | they have more experience than I on these matters |
| 20:01:00 | raptor | me too |
| 20:01:00 | raptor | karamazovapy? sam686? |
| 20:01:00 | karamazovapy | raptor? raptor? |
| 20:01:00 | raptor | read ^^ |
| 20:02:00 | raptor | about /scramble |
| 20:02:00 | karamazovapy | I think this was prompted by the times we've had a long series of games where teams didn't really change |
| 20:03:00 | karamazovapy | you could make it random - or - you could have it swap every other player |
| 20:03:00 | raptor | you mean: /pseudoscramble |
| 20:03:00 | raptor | :) |
| 20:03:00 | karamazovapy | like riffle shuffling a deck of cards |
| 20:17:00 | sam686 | what will /shuffle_teams do, make team change completely random, or based on rating? |
| 20:17:00 | watusimoto | if we do it, it will be random |
| 20:18:00 | watusimoto | we already have ratings based, and it's not so hot |
| 20:18:00 | karamazovapy | I vote riffle shuffle |
| 20:19:00 | sam686 | rating system don't seem to be reliable with more then 4 players, all it does is keep the 2 highest reting from being together in a team.. |
| 20:19:00 | karamazovapy | swap 3&4, swap 7&8 |
| 20:19:00 | raptor | is the 'proper' solution to fix the rating system? (e.g. will we ever actually need /scramble if rating system was really good?) |
| 20:21:00 | karamazovapy | I think kills/death is a reasonably good metric, although we might have to adjust so suicides don't count |
| 20:25:00 | watusimoto | deaths/kills is easy to calculate |
| 20:25:00 | karamazovapy | as a general rule, I think better players get killed less |
| 20:25:00 | watusimoto | I'd be happy to replace our existing metric with that |
| 20:26:00 | watusimoto | we currently have points scored by player : total points scored by everyone |
| 20:26:00 | karamazovapy | if you make that move, like I said, I'd remove suicides from the equation |
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| 20:33:00 | watusimoto | I concur |
| 20:54:00 | watusimoto | so let's hold off on a shuffle command, but try the kill/death ratio as a replacement for the current rating scheme |
| 20:56:00 | raptor | i say yes |
| 20:56:00 | raptor | and don't count suiceides |
| 20:56:00 | raptor | and learn to spell.. |
| 21:13:00 | watusimoto | correct |
| 21:14:00 | karamazovapy | anybody want to give opinion(s) on my logo? |
| 21:15:00 | raptor | where can i find this? |
| 21:15:00 | karamazovapy | okay - I'm working to open a music venue. the local area code is 517 |
| 21:15:00 | karamazovapy | http://206.217.217.165 |
| 21:15:00 | karamazovapy | black and white is sort of the base logo I'm going with |
| 21:16:00 | karamazovapy | the design studio suggested a bunch of color schemes (I think looking forward to future web and print work) |
| 21:16:00 | karamazovapy | I wasn't wild about them and made a couple mock ups that are more what I had in mind |
| 21:16:00 | raptor | i'm trying to see old nintendo mario characters in that logo... |
| 21:17:00 | raptor | i think both mid-century ones are my least favorites |
| 21:19:00 | raptor | sophisticatic looks too... sophisticated, or business-like; but, I don't know what you are going for |
| 21:20:00 | karamazovapy | we'll be hosting all genres of music, trying to appeal to the year-round crowd early in the week (and over the summer) and college kids the rest of the time |
| 21:20:00 | karamazovapy | considering Michigan State University students our target demographic |
| 21:21:00 | raptor | i kind of like energetic |
| 21:21:00 | karamazovapy | I'm assuming you were able to pick out the "hidden" 517 in the EQ on my version 2 |
| 21:22:00 | raptor | i see it now! :) |
| 21:22:00 | karamazovapy | it's supposed to be one of the things where only people who "get it" really see it. sort of an inside-code-type-thing |
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| 21:24:00 | karamazovapy | I just showed these to a college girl and she thought they all looked too "starbucks/furniture store" |
| 21:24:00 | karamazovapy | well...the first four |
| 21:24:00 | raptor | that's the thing with logos - few actually look good after a few years |
| 21:25:00 | raptor | brb |
| 21:25:00 | karamazovapy | I think the logo itself is solid...but I like the black and white better than any of the studio's color schemes |
| 21:26:00 | | BFLogBot - Commit fc6931cd84b3 | Author: watusim...@bitfighter.org | Log: BUGFIX: Fix joining wall segments in editor |
| 21:26:00 | | BFLogBot - Commit 6bdba202769c | Author: watusim...@bitfighter.org | Log: Merge |
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| 21:47:00 | raptor | yeah, the original black and white seems the best of the studio options... |
| 21:51:00 | | BFLogBot - Commit 252c0911b500 | Author: watusim...@bitfighter.org | Log: BIGFIX: Can now add lines again in editor; fixed joining line segments |
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| 21:53:00 | watusimoto | I like the blue ones; the last two |
| 21:54:00 | watusimoto | but they do look corporate |
| 21:54:00 | watusimoto | or rather like a super upscale logo |
| 21:54:00 | watusimoto | like a $12 cocktail bar |
| 21:54:00 | watusimoto | full of ex-frat boys |
| 21:54:00 | | koda has joined |
| 21:57:00 | watusimoto | What about a graffitti style font -- create your logo here |
| 21:57:00 | watusimoto | http://www.graffiticreator.net/ |
| 22:14:00 | watusimoto | what kind of music will the venue have? |
| 22:21:00 | | BFLogBot - Commit 38753ef42370 | Author: sam8641 | Log: Fix ZAP_DEDICATED, added some "Not a TeamEditor" checks in debug mode.. |
| 22:22:00 | sam686 | there is an editor problem with team renaming after testing from editor.. |
| 23:28:00 | | raptor has joined |
| 23:28:00 | | ChanServ sets mode +o raptor |
| 23:31:00 | raptor | yay for bugfixing |
| 23:39:00 | | Flynnn has joined |
| 23:46:00 | | koda Quit (Quit: k thx bai) |
| 23:55:00 | | Zoomber has joined |
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