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| 01:50:21 | karamazovapy | (thicker and thinner, yes) |
| 01:51:02 | karamazovapy | although I also used enter a lot for initial menus, since I could hit it without looking |
| 02:27:54 | sam686 | is this an OK change? http://sam686.maxhushahn.com:8000/hg.php/rev/46025bc98e1a |
| 02:27:55 | sam686 | mostly, seperate parts of Object, for use with SafePtr with SafePtrData instead of Object |
| 02:28:42 | raptor | hi sam686 |
| 02:28:45 | sam686 | there is "lass ClientInfo : public Object", which can be changed together with the changes i made. |
| 02:28:50 | raptor | weren't we going to wait until after 016 |
| 02:28:51 | raptor | ? |
| 02:29:19 | sam686 | don't know.. |
| 02:29:25 | sam686 | when will 016 come out? |
| 02:29:33 | raptor | i think easily within a week |
| 02:29:43 | raptor | the editor is almost done |
| 02:29:56 | raptor | and we only have minor things left |
| 02:30:15 | CrazyLinuxNerd | yay it's almost xmas :p :-D |
| 02:30:16 | sam686 | the changes i made doesn't hardly affect zap/ files (just one line in zap/) |
| 02:31:41 | sam686 | and, it equally works just as well, with no problems, with my changes.. |
| 02:31:58 | raptor | looking at the rev.. |
| 02:32:01 | sam686 | maybe it works better with my changes, i guess. |
| 02:33:10 | raptor | what will work better? |
| 02:33:30 | sam686 | it was one of complaint from watusimoto, "Object" class have some network functions.. |
| 02:34:04 | sam686 | now it is seperate, i can just use "class ClientInfo : public SafePtrData" |
| 02:34:47 | sam686 | as, ClientInfo need to make use of SafePtr to prevent dead non-null pointers.. |
| 02:38:57 | raptor | it looks pretty good - but are you sure there won't be other issues, like memory problems? |
| 02:39:36 | sam686 | Object is part of SafePtrData and RefPtrData, so there shouldn't be any problems, i tested it. |
| 02:41:03 | raptor | ok, let me pull it and lets test over th network |
| 02:41:56 | sam686 | hg pull <URL> --rev 46025bc98e1a |
| 02:44:21 | raptor | compiling... |
| 02:45:41 | sam686 | better yet, you can keep using the existing "016 test server on master" or "sam test" |
| 02:46:09 | raptor | oh yeah? |
| 02:46:31 | sam686 | yes, it doesn't change the netowork stuff |
| 02:48:10 | raptor | ok one moment - i have to take care of sometyhing... |
| 02:52:47 | raptor | ok, i'm on 016 master |
| 02:57:55 | raptor | got a crash from adding bots, you? |
| 02:58:31 | raptor | ah, it's that assert... i don't think the TNLAssert works correctly with OR || |
| 02:58:35 | sam686 | "We need a clientInfo for this ship!", but i think that problem exists without my latest changes.. |
| 02:58:56 | raptor | yes - is it actually a problem? or just an assert problem? |
| 02:59:18 | sam686 | most likely, loading a level "Distraction Curve" having a "Ship" line in them |
| 02:59:49 | raptor | then we should remove that assert? |
| 03:00:03 | sam686 | you can try temperory disable that assert, maybe comment it out. |
| 03:00:21 | raptor | except that distraction curve isn't on the server... |
| 03:02:04 | sam686 | so, it started only be adding bots? |
| 03:03:32 | sam686 | it could be possible that the client hits an "Ship::unpackUpdate" first, then GameType, s2cAddClient |
| 03:05:00 | sam686 | I may have found a new problem, in nexus, kicking bots leave a flag behind, where flag is NOT MOVING |
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| 03:11:41 | raptor | ok back - wireless cut out |
| 03:11:48 | raptor | i found a crash in your revision |
| 03:12:08 | raptor | in the editor - open ctf3 and copy and paste the whole level: http://pastie.org/3254028 |
| 03:12:16 | raptor | it doesn't crash with the latest from google code |
| 03:12:34 | sam686 | does that problem exist, without my changes, or no? |
| 03:12:48 | raptor | it doesn't exist without your changes |
| 03:13:38 | sam686 | not sure, i aren't getting a crash yet, let me try CTF3 |
| 03:14:32 | sam686 | paste the whole level is slow... |
| 03:14:45 | raptor | i tested the revision right before yours; it had no crash |
| 03:16:14 | sam686 | can you get it to crash again? |
| 03:16:27 | raptor | ok, let me recompile |
| 03:17:15 | sam686 | now it unfreezes after several minutes waiting for that thing to paste.. |
| 03:17:28 | sam686 | it pasted the whole level with no crash |
| 03:17:52 | sam686 | it undo without a crash either.. |
| 03:17:59 | raptor | and you did a full recompile with yoru revision? |
| 03:18:06 | sam686 | yes.. |
| 03:18:17 | raptor | yep, segfault again |
| 03:18:41 | raptor | same stacktrace |
| 03:20:21 | sam686 | i don't know whats the problem, could be a problem with your linux's shared_ptr ? |
| 03:20:40 | raptor | it sure could be |
| 03:21:32 | sam686 | we have ran into that, mostly the same, backtrace, with undo crash error |
| 03:22:43 | sam686 | but, why is your backtrace calling a pointer of #0 0x0000000000000000 in ?? () |
| 03:28:39 | sam686 | ctrl + shift + Z in editor (redo) crashes |
| 03:28:46 | sam686 | or freezes |
| 03:32:10 | sam686 | can you, maybe, add a printf("GridDatabase %p \n", this); in both contructor of gridDB.cpp line 44, and printf("~GridDatabase %p \n", this); in line 66 ? |
| 03:32:15 | sam686 | then crash it again? |
| 03:34:06 | sam686 | for me, copy and paste once (after entering editor the first time) does not delete nothing... |
| 03:37:25 | sam686 | oh... i had a broken copy constructor |
| 03:38:00 | sam686 | tnlNetBase.h line 361, should be RefPtrData(const RefPtrData /* NOT OBJECT */ ©) {mRefCount = 0;} |
| 03:38:33 | sam686 | and line 391: SafePtrData(const SafePtrData ©) {mFirstObjectRef = NULL;} // again, not Object |
| 03:46:21 | sam686 | there we go, http://sam686.maxhushahn.com:8000/hg.php/rev/37f0c5a5661f this revision is better, with a more correct copy constructors |
| 03:47:06 | sam686 | raptor, test it, hopefully, no editor errors on this revision, with fixed copy constructors.. |
| 03:51:47 | raptor | ok sorry, we had some people show up at the door |
| 03:51:50 | raptor | i will test now... |
| 03:52:00 | sam686 | ok |
| 03:53:17 | raptor | compiling.. |
| 03:55:23 | raptor | it works! |
| 03:55:27 | raptor | i did lots of stress-testing |
| 03:55:45 | raptor | just curious - what advantages will this change have? |
| 03:56:48 | sam686 | the advantage is, we can use class ClientInfo : public SafePtrData, which may take up slightly less memory, to make SafePtr work |
| 03:58:44 | sam686 | it can be useful when, we ever start to use more of SafePtr or RefPtr (use RefPtrData for that) |
| 03:59:08 | raptor | yeah looks good |
| 03:59:17 | raptor | did more testing |
| 03:59:17 | sam686 | ok to push that changes? |
| 03:59:27 | raptor | yeah i think so |
| 03:59:32 | sam686 | ok |
| 03:59:43 | raptor | also, you found another bug with shipUnpack? |
| 04:00:57 | sam686 | it could be possible that the client hits an "Ship::unpackUpdate" first, then GameType, s2cAddClient |
| 04:01:30 | sam686 | when, robots or players join |
| 04:02:21 | sam686 | there, i had to rebase, then i pushed my latest changes |
| 04:02:28 | raptor | ok |
| 04:03:11 | | BFLogBot - Commit 0a7d48a66a09 | Author: sam8641 | Log: Seperate some parts of Object into seperate class, for use with SafePtr |
| 04:22:16 | raptor | hey karamazovapy, you around? |
| 04:23:19 | raptor | sam686: what happens when you do ctrl + ; (ctrl semicolon) in the editor and 'run plugin'? |
| 04:25:04 | sam686 | it says, could not find the plugin called draw_arc.lua |
| 04:25:25 | raptor | ah, well add that plugin |
| 04:25:39 | raptor | it's in resource/editor_plugins |
| 04:25:45 | raptor | then try agian |
| 04:27:09 | sam686 | ok, seems to work now... |
| 04:27:56 | sam686 | but, 64 points doesn't work, it only does 62 points instead |
| 04:28:20 | sam686 | or 63 points.. |
| 04:29:55 | raptor | i get a segafult |
| 04:31:00 | sam686 | segfault? |
| 04:31:06 | raptor | hah, yeah |
| 04:31:21 | raptor | try running it but without makeing changes to the default |
| 04:32:14 | sam686 | still no crash... |
| 04:32:27 | raptor | this is my stacktrace: http://pastie.org/3254291 |
| 04:32:36 | raptor | maybe run after undo? |
| 04:33:30 | sam686 | will it help to copy resource/scripts into exe/scripts (and copy editor_plugins too) |
| 04:33:48 | raptor | let me try putting it into 'scripts' |
| 04:34:38 | raptor | yeah, only happens after undo |
| 04:34:59 | sam686 | now it crash on me.. |
| 04:37:44 | sam686 | trying to read "(GridDatabase *) database" address 0xFDFDFDFD... bad pointer... |
| 04:45:02 | raptor | karamazovapy: added back in the number pad for editor |
| 04:48:17 | | BFLogBot - Commit 3b6f97d2db81 | Author: buckyballreaction | Log: Make number pad useful in editor again |
| 05:00:37 | raptor | i think the crash has something to do with the wrong database being passed around again.. |
| 05:07:50 | sam686 | i think i found a cheap way to fix the problem, by adding only 2 lines of code in UIEditor.cpp |
| 05:07:56 | raptor | really? |
| 05:08:04 | raptor | i've been playing with mLoadTarget... |
| 05:08:09 | raptor | i think i'm on the wrong path |
| 05:11:38 | raptor | ha! |
| 05:11:41 | raptor | i was on the right path |
| 05:12:16 | sam686 | saw my revision i pushed 2 minutes ago? |
| 05:12:21 | raptor | yep :) |
| 05:12:25 | raptor | good thinking |
| 05:13:20 | | BFLogBot - Commit ca057c06fc7e | Author: sam8641 | Log: A tiny change to UIEditor.cpp, to fix undo, then LUA plugin run error. |
| 05:14:26 | raptor | great! more solid |
| 05:15:42 | raptor | should we do more play testing? |
| 05:16:05 | raptor | can you host one of those dungeons - they seem to make good stress testing levels |
| 05:22:02 | raptor | hey sam686, join your server |
| 05:22:22 | sam686 | ok |
| 05:54:13 | sam686 | There is "Worm" and "Circle", maybe add that to test object suite. |
| 05:54:33 | raptor | hit that segfault again |
| 05:55:00 | raptor | "We need a clientInfo for this ship!" |
| 05:56:26 | raptor | wow, i lost 2 revisions of changes... |
| 05:57:45 | sam686 | lost your changes, or a changes that is easily pulled? |
| 05:57:56 | raptor | not easily pulled |
| 05:57:58 | raptor | :( |
| 05:58:29 | sam686 | what was you doing, trying to rebase or what? |
| 05:58:48 | raptor | these were revisions in december |
| 05:58:59 | raptor | one of the merges lost all the changes |
| 05:59:19 | sam686 | was that from my very old revisions? |
| 05:59:39 | raptor | no.. it was watusimoto who must have forced a merge |
| 05:59:39 | sam686 | or yours? |
| 05:59:45 | raptor | my changes |
| 05:59:56 | sam686 | ok.. |
| 06:00:02 | raptor | i think one of his forced merges lost my loadout recharge changes |
| 06:00:45 | sam686 | so, i guess you happen to never pushed your changes of loadout zone extra energy? |
| 06:00:59 | raptor | i did push them |
| 06:01:12 | raptor | oh, not yet tonight |
| 06:01:28 | sam686 | forced merges doesn't lose any changes at all, or shouldn't |
| 06:01:40 | raptor | yeah, but it did |
| 06:02:07 | sam686 | but, it may leave behind multiple not merged heads.. |
| 06:02:40 | sam686 | i am probably guessing you thought you pushed, but the push failed? |
| 06:03:42 | raptor | this was one of the revisions i partly lost: 09a9741de69c |
| 06:04:37 | sam686 | haha, i end up google search this: http://www.google.com/search?q=09a9741de69c |
| 06:05:01 | raptor | my clone popped up first?? |
| 06:07:40 | raptor | ok, i think i got most of it back.. |
| 06:11:14 | raptor | there we go, fixed |
| 06:12:09 | raptor | ha! you added a worm an circle |
| 06:12:51 | raptor | i don't think we should let people know about Circle and Worm... they're too experimental |
| 06:13:29 | | BFLogBot - Commit c66459c92155 | Author: buckyballreaction | Log: Return the ability to recharge faster in loadout zone - lost due to (accidental?) removal in 6001f03a178f, and subsequent merge in 46a5d8087d53 |
| 06:24:00 | sam686 | i will go to bed |
| 06:24:08 | raptor | me too, good night |
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| 07:33:38 | | BFLogBot - Commit 541abda01143 | Author: buckyballreaction | Log: Update release notes with most of my changes since 015a |
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| 14:47:17 | LoneWolfy | Whats a FISH key? |
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| 14:52:36 | karamazovapy | First I Should Hit key |
| 14:52:47 | raptor | good morning! |
| 14:53:04 | karamazovapy | eh |
| 14:54:11 | karamazovapy | that's ey, or A, for any of you who haven't spent significant time around canadians |
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| 15:01:27 | watusimoto | hi bye |
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| 15:30:01 | raptor | good day! |
| 15:31:13 | raptor | so i finally updated the release notes |
| 15:34:22 | watusimoto | hi |
| 15:34:23 | watusimoto | I saw |
| 15:34:27 | raptor | hi |
| 15:34:36 | raptor | i came |
| 15:34:39 | watusimoto | it's going to be a pain to wrangle all that into a coherent document |
| 15:34:46 | raptor | i ate breakfast? |
| 15:34:56 | raptor | yesh |
| 15:34:59 | watusimoto | don't share |
| 15:35:59 | raptor | i tried to divide it up - maybe we need more categories? |
| 15:36:46 | raptor | New / Changed / Fixed |
| 15:36:55 | watusimoto | maybe Editor |
| 15:37:03 | watusimoto | and Scripting |
| 15:37:08 | raptor | Gameplay |
| 15:37:09 | watusimoto | or Bots & Levelgens |
| 15:37:25 | raptor | i like 'Bots & Levelgens' |
| 15:37:25 | watusimoto | depends on what's there, but that's usually how I structure it |
| 15:38:02 | watusimoto | we also probably need some preamble about how we've gone to sdl, rewritten big things, set the stage for future work, etc. |
| 15:38:16 | watusimoto | and I usually have a few headliner features, such as new game type |
| 15:38:18 | raptor | yeah - my one line didn't do it justice |
| 15:38:38 | watusimoto | well don't sweat it; we'll get it figured out |
| 15:38:40 | raptor | should I go through all of yours and sam686's commits as well? |
| 15:41:04 | watusimoto | My commits are pretty well documented; maybe look through sam's |
| 15:41:36 | watusimoto | maybe we should throw all this into a google doc or something where we can collaboratively edit |
| 15:43:45 | raptor | we have the wiki |
| 15:45:13 | raptor | i see you saw sam's commit with TNL::Object |
| 15:46:05 | raptor | he said he did it for you - to reduce the memory overhead of Object |
| 15:46:38 | raptor | I tried to stop him at first - but after thorough testing I capitulated :) |
| 15:46:56 | raptor | I'm still not sure what exactly the gain is |
| 15:47:22 | raptor | sam686? I already forgot why you made that change to TNL::Object |
| 15:47:47 | watusimoto | ah yes, the wiki! |
| 15:48:13 | raptor | want me to just past the whole lot in the wiki? |
| 15:48:16 | raptor | pasate |
| 15:48:18 | raptor | paste |
| 15:48:18 | watusimoto | sure |
| 15:49:36 | | BFLogBot - Commit fe410aac6141 | Author: buckyballreaction | Log: Do no allow changing of score in Core game type |
| 15:49:50 | raptor | tada!: http://bitfighter.org/wiki/index.php?title=Release_Notes_016 |
| 15:50:55 | raptor | this looks funny: game->getGameType()->getGameType() == CoreGame |
| 15:59:05 | watusimoto | Maybe that inner one should be renamed to getId() or something |
| 15:59:11 | watusimoto | getGameTypeId() |
| 15:59:18 | watusimoto | maybe getId() |
| 15:59:23 | raptor | getGameTypeType() |
| 15:59:26 | raptor | :) |
| 15:59:32 | watusimoto | getTypeOfGameType() |
| 15:59:59 | raptor | I could change the enum to be GameTypeId instead of GameTypes |
| 16:07:17 | watusimoto | sure, that sounds good |
| 16:07:21 | watusimoto | anything to reduce confusion |
| 16:09:39 | | BFLogBot - Commit 1a3408e789d6 | Author: buckyballreaction | Log: Rename GameTypes to GameTypeId to be more clear |
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| 17:26:15 | karamazovapy | I think there should be a BIG CHANGES section that highlights the stuff players will/should notice right away |
| 17:26:58 | karamazovapy | there are several really big, headline-type changes |
| 17:27:19 | sam686 | small release note problem, double recharge if not moving in a loadout zone... sounds mis leading to some people, if you don't move in Loadout Zone, then you might not be in the Loadout Zone to begin with... |
| 17:27:35 | raptor | sam, you may change it |
| 17:27:44 | sam686 | ok |
| 17:28:13 | karamazovapy | should there be a pre-release thread in the Announcements section that advertises some of the features to get people excited for 016? |
| 17:28:14 | raptor | I started a Major changes list at the top here; I just pulled from the rest of the list: http://bitfighter.org/wiki/index.php?title=Release_Notes_016 |
| 17:29:11 | karamazovapy | should major changes be moved, or just copied from the new features? |
| 17:30:50 | raptor | anything is good |
| 17:31:13 | raptor | I invite you to adjust the list as well karamazovapy :) |
| 17:31:20 | raptor | (mostly because I'm really busy at work...) |
| 17:35:14 | raptor | also, sam686, I haven't gone through your revisions yet for fixes/features |
| 17:35:18 | karamazovapy | I'm going to rewrite this as a more readable document and if you folks like it, you can use it |
| 17:35:28 | raptor | sure |
| 17:37:03 | sam686 | oh, teleporter delay option is not in editor yet... But you can go test it on my server (level "zzz teleport delay test" |
| 17:39:10 | sam686 | http://sam686.maxhushahn.com/bitfighter/levels/zzzz88.level That is a level with different teleporter delay. |
| 17:39:31 | raptor | wait what? |
| 17:39:34 | raptor | when was that added? |
| 17:40:01 | sam686 | a long long time ago, added by me, but it is not yet on the editor as an option attribute to edit.. |
| 17:40:18 | sam686 | after 015a, thats for sure |
| 17:40:51 | raptor | i just went through every one of my revisions since 015a and added to the list |
| 17:41:03 | raptor | i'm sure there's lots that you've done, too, sam686 |
| 17:47:46 | sam686 | Reduced network load by convert objects from a 32-bit mask to an 8-bit type number... I don't think it ever reduce network load, because TypeMask (now TypeNumber) is never sent through netowork (or i don't see where the TypeNumber is sent) |
| 17:48:15 | raptor | really? i thought it was |
| 17:48:27 | raptor | well, if not, then you can adjust that line |
| 17:48:54 | sam686 | instead, TypeNumber is simply set by constructor, for each class, never needs to be sent through network. |
| 17:48:58 | raptor | maybe to: "Allow for more than 32 different game objects" |
| 17:49:05 | sam686 | ok |
| 17:49:06 | raptor | ah |
| 17:55:41 | karamazovapy | I've instated my own organizational scheme, categorizing changes into Gameplay, Client, Editor, Hosting, Bots & Scripting, and Bugs |
| 17:57:04 | raptor | ooo great! |
| 17:59:40 | karamazovapy | so teleporter delay won't be in 016? |
| 18:00:08 | raptor | i don't even remember discussing that as a good feature to add |
| 18:02:06 | karamazovapy | I think it's an interesting idea, but I'd never thought about it |
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| 18:10:16 | raptor | you could use them to 'hide' breifly |
| 18:10:28 | raptor | put several on top of each other with varying delays... |
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| 18:27:39 | karamazovapy | I submitted my reorganized list of updates, but I just pasted it above the old list |
| 18:27:45 | raptor | ok |
| 18:30:38 | raptor | did you not touch the bug list? |
| 18:33:00 | karamazovapy | I distributed all the items into Gameplay/Client/Editor/Hosting/Bugs & Scripting |
| 18:34:18 | raptor | ah ok |
| 18:35:07 | karamazovapy | everything seemed to fit relatively well into one of those five categories |
| 18:36:17 | karamazovapy | most players will be interested in the gameplay fixes and the first few client items, but not much beyond that |
| 18:36:30 | raptor | i agree |
| 18:36:36 | raptor | i'm going to make a quick change... |
| 18:36:47 | karamazovapy | I already made a couple little item switches |
| 18:36:59 | karamazovapy | but I'm not editing anymore, so you're free |
| 18:38:09 | karamazovapy | 016 is a huge update |
| 18:38:22 | karamazovapy | I hadn't realized the scope until I went through the list |
| 18:38:43 | raptor | we need to narrow it down to like 5-8 items to post on gaming sites |
| 18:39:51 | karamazovapy | core, loadout presets, sensor, spawn shield, soccer pickup/inertia, energy recharge, engineer fix, triple/bouncer tweaks are all big |
| 18:40:33 | karamazovapy | although you could lump sensor/engineer/triple/bouncer as "weapon and module upgrades" |
| 18:40:49 | raptor | yes, that's good |
| 18:41:05 | karamazovapy | I'd add voice chat to the list |
| 18:41:20 | karamazovapy | screenshots fixed |
| 18:41:42 | karamazovapy | if we're advertising the update |
| 18:44:22 | raptor | OK: http://bitfighter.org/wiki/index.php?title=Release_Notes_016 |
| 18:44:27 | raptor | started a short list |
| 18:44:57 | raptor | SDL migration needs to be mentioned because it will significantly change the way people compile on linux |
| 18:45:18 | raptor | in fact it should probably be expounded upon.. |
| 18:45:32 | karamazovapy | yeah, that's true. windows and mac users don't understand it, though. |
| 18:46:01 | raptor | yes |
| 18:46:24 | raptor | i've never actually tested loadout saving... |
| 18:46:33 | karamazovapy | should probably test it |
| 18:46:44 | raptor | in fact, i didn't know it was coded.. |
| 18:46:50 | karamazovapy | neither did I! |
| 18:48:14 | raptor | it works! |
| 18:48:16 | raptor | great! |
| 18:48:42 | raptor | note that it saves what you are currently carrying, not what you want to change to |
| 18:52:17 | karamazovapy | but you could put whatever you wanted into the INI |
| 18:52:33 | karamazovapy | you still have to hit a loadout zone, right? |
| 18:53:12 | karamazovapy | I think the next evolution of that is allowing a custom default |
| 18:53:28 | raptor | yes, you have to hit loadout zone |
| 18:53:46 | raptor | next step that watusimoto wants to do is start a level with your favorite default |
| 18:53:53 | karamazovapy | yep |
| 18:54:14 | karamazovapy | that won't break compatibility, will it? |
| 18:56:49 | raptor | not sure |
| 18:56:52 | raptor | i doubt it |
| 18:57:15 | raptor | we already have the network capability to set the loadout - we'd just have to add an extra action at the start of a level |
| 19:00:08 | raptor | however, watusimoto did start adding 'badges' - these will break compatibility, i think |
| 19:26:32 | karamazovapy | are the stinkin'badges the achievement-ish system? |
| 19:26:40 | raptor | yes |
| 19:26:56 | LoneWolfy | Achivements? |
| 19:27:00 | LoneWolfy | :D |
| 19:27:05 | karamazovapy | is he doing big, long-term accomplishments, or the killing-spree type? |
| 19:27:11 | raptor | there are no acheivements yet! |
| 19:27:26 | raptor | i think he's thinking a little of both |
| 19:27:44 | karamazovapy | LoneWolfy - if you want to jump up and down over what you're going to get in about a week, click this > http://bitfighter.org/wiki/index.php?title=Release_Notes_016 |
| 19:28:02 | raptor | but I have no idea how he thinks to show them... |
| 19:28:14 | LoneWolfy | Ok cool |
| 19:28:27 | LoneWolfy | I have an achievment idea |
| 19:28:34 | raptor | for now, he only has these badges: http://code.google.com/p/bitfighter/source/browse/zap/SharedConstants.h |
| 19:28:34 | karamazovapy | jes? |
| 19:28:43 | raptor | and they don't do anything |
| 19:29:02 | LoneWolfy | "Big Battler" participate in a Big Bitfighter Battle |
| 19:29:11 | karamazovapy | huh. yeah, I wonder how that will work. |
| 19:29:47 | raptor | actually looks like badge addition up to 32 won't break compatibility |
| 19:29:57 | karamazovapy | I think I've earned those ones already |
| 19:30:09 | raptor | haha |
| 19:30:58 | karamazovapy | maybe your badges pop up next to you when you fly over a BadgeZone |
| 19:30:59 | karamazovapy | lol |
| 19:31:09 | raptor | ha! |
| 19:31:44 | karamazovapy | or when you type in !badges |
| 19:32:23 | karamazovapy | unless there's some kind of forum tie-in, I'm not sure I get it |
| 19:32:51 | raptor | yeah i don't know yet - maybe simple rendering changes in game for some of them |
| 19:32:58 | karamazovapy | I didn't see a hall of fame/record board update listed in the 016 release notes, so it's not tied to that |
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| 19:34:01 | karamazovapy | a long time ago, he prompted users to create some test icons in a tiny 12x12 pixel box or something |
| 19:34:17 | karamazovapy | he liked the idea of having a badge-type-thing by your username |
| 19:34:29 | karamazovapy | I guess you could select one of your badges to be kind of a player icon |
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| 19:34:44 | raptor | interesting |
| 19:34:59 | raptor | yes, i could see that working.. |
| 19:35:14 | karamazovapy | he didn't like anything we came up with, but was impressed by the diversity of ideas |
| 19:37:56 | raptor | i could see little vector graphics next to names working |
| 19:38:05 | raptor | as lonk as they weren't too intrusive |
| 19:38:09 | raptor | *long |
| 19:38:58 | karamazovapy | I'm trying to see if that old thread was on these forums or on the invisionfrees |
| 19:44:52 | karamazovapy | the wayback machine server with the zetaboards seems to be down |
| 19:45:50 | raptor | we should do map analysis |
| 19:48:39 | karamazovapy | how so? |
| 19:48:47 | raptor | here are our levels: http://pastie.org/3258437 |
| 19:49:08 | karamazovapy | oh - gotcha |
| 19:49:29 | raptor | we need to replace some - watusimoto wants some levels that are smaller for better 1 on 1 play with friends |
| 19:49:58 | raptor | and he wants GeoWar removed |
| 19:50:26 | raptor | I want Elmer's revenge removed or updated to a higher score |
| 19:50:29 | karamazovapy | I kind of got the impression he wanted some levels created with single player-bot and small sided games in mind |
| 19:51:05 | raptor | yes - i guess that's more like what he said |
| 19:52:02 | karamazovapy | it sounded like he wanted to remove all the "classic" maps and keep them hosted publicly for nostalgia |
| 19:52:19 | raptor | original zap! levels? |
| 19:52:23 | karamazovapy | yeah |
| 19:52:39 | raptor | i must have not been paying attention in that conversation that much... |
| 19:52:44 | raptor | what else did he say? |
| 19:54:00 | | karamazovapy has left |
| 19:54:04 | | karamazovapy has joined |
| 19:55:22 | karamazovapy | conversation starts at the bottom of this page > http://199.192.229.168/irclogs/index.php?date=2012-01-24 |
| 19:55:42 | karamazovapy | concludes at the top of this page > http://199.192.229.168/irclogs/index.php?date=2012-01-25 |
| 19:56:31 | raptor | ah ok, it was short enough |
| 19:56:37 | karamazovapy | yep |
| 19:57:11 | karamazovapy | but it sounds like he's in favor of scrapping all the zap! maps and geowar, and taking a different direction |
| 19:58:51 | karamazovapy | if the new-user experience is a priority, I think a coded tutorial is necessary, for one |
| 19:59:55 | karamazovapy | but I think we need at least one level of every game type to demostrate the gameplay well and allow users to host a small party without downloading anything additional |
| 20:00:29 | karamazovapy | so that means including hold the flag and core maps that aren't currently bundled |
| 20:05:51 | raptor | ah HTF |
| 20:05:54 | raptor | forgot about that, yes |
| 20:06:24 | raptor | ok updated again with more level info: http://pastie.org/3258437 |
| 20:06:45 | raptor | argh! |
| 20:06:58 | raptor | level credits didn't actually get in... |
| 20:10:26 | raptor | ok updated again: http://pastie.org/3258437 |
| 20:10:51 | raptor | sooo.. scrap everything but mazeracer |
| 20:11:17 | karamazovapy | yeah, if he wants to keep mazeracer |
| 20:11:22 | karamazovapy | lol |
| 20:11:32 | raptor | I think he would - it's good for showing a levelgen |
| 20:11:44 | karamazovapy | I was just teasing |
| 20:12:08 | raptor | so i don't know from where we should pull other maps |
| 20:12:33 | raptor | your Core maps would be a good addition - probably Core03 |
| 20:12:48 | karamazovapy | well the debate is between pulling existing maps or making new ones |
| 20:14:06 | raptor | existing maps mean contacting people for permission... new ones mean creation time |
| 20:14:38 | karamazovapy | I'm not sure we need to worry too much about permission if they're posted on the forums |
| 20:14:48 | karamazovapy | of course, we could have an 016 map creation contest |
| 20:14:56 | karamazovapy | *016a |
| 20:16:03 | raptor | geowar should be redone with like 50 polywalls instead of 100000000 barriers |
| 20:16:52 | raptor | 501 barriers.. |
| 20:26:19 | karamazovapy | if someone gave me a checklist of what we wanted out of a sample level pack, I could throw them together pretty quickly and we'd end up with something that fit our needs better than a hodgepodge assembly |
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| 20:27:13 | raptor | I'd say: |
| 20:27:20 | raptor | 1. one of each gametype |
| 20:27:39 | sam686 | my levelgen is good for, mostly bitmatch. |
| 20:27:44 | raptor | 2. Smaller maps |
| 20:27:53 | raptor | 3. a script example (mazeracer is probably fine) |
| 20:28:17 | raptor | 4. bot work OK on the maps (i.e. no teleporting on top of walls) |
| 20:29:19 | karamazovapy | how many should have engineer, how many should have auto-repair turrets or forcefields, how many should have asteroid spawns, how many should have teleports, how many should have gofasts, how many of those should have snapping enabled, how many should be FFA, how many should have more than two teams... |
| 20:29:41 | karamazovapy | we can talk in terms of "half" or "a couple" |
| 20:29:56 | karamazovapy | or "most" |
| 20:30:11 | karamazovapy | or "one" |
| 20:30:34 | karamazovapy | oh - also, flagspawns |
| 20:30:46 | karamazovapy | multiple destination teleports |
| 20:31:17 | sam686 | none of stock maps have multi destination teleports |
| 20:31:28 | karamazovapy | they didn't exist when the stock maps were created |
| 20:31:37 | karamazovapy | same with engineer and auto repair |
| 20:31:58 | sam686 | none of stock maps have gofast (SpeedZone) |
| 20:32:14 | sam686 | none of stock maps have asteroids (i don't think) |
| 20:32:15 | karamazovapy | they did |
| 20:32:17 | raptor | hmmm... so this is a good chance to show off bitfighter as opposed to zap |
| 20:32:20 | karamazovapy | (have gofasts) |
| 20:32:38 | karamazovapy | I think the level pack should show off the primary gameplay mechanics |
| 20:32:52 | sam686 | none of stock maps have gofasts, in Bitfighter., which maps have gofast?? |
| 20:33:18 | karamazovapy | gofasts were developed after the initial zap! demo, but the release we all played had them |
| 20:33:33 | karamazovapy | so the versions watusimoto accessed are missing them |
| 20:33:48 | raptor | yes, that was a cloned feature |
| 20:34:18 | sam686 | oh, and none of stock maps have TextItem or LineItem |
| 20:34:46 | raptor | I think Core03 is a good example of engineer |
| 20:34:52 | karamazovapy | galaxy crossover should have them |
| 20:35:09 | karamazovapy | (gofasts) |
| 20:35:22 | karamazovapy | I don't know if text and line items are important |
| 20:35:30 | karamazovapy | but we might include testitems |
| 20:35:43 | raptor | so what is the history of a TestItem? |
| 20:35:51 | raptor | and why is it named like that? |
| 20:35:55 | karamazovapy | it was a test |
| 20:36:07 | raptor | was it going to be removed but became a permanent part? |
| 20:36:12 | karamazovapy | more or less |
| 20:36:23 | karamazovapy | it was never officially mentioned, but people found it in the code and started using it |
| 20:36:46 | sam686 | There is "TestItem" in stock level, ctf1.level |
| 20:37:12 | karamazovapy | and in Intermission |
| 20:37:57 | karamazovapy | resourceitems were similar, since engineer was never officially released |
| 20:38:11 | sam686 | intermission time limit might be too short? |
| 20:38:37 | raptor | nah - intermission is great! |
| 20:39:12 | karamazovapy | that's another question, though, do we want to include the team variants of rabbit, nexus, and bitmatch? |
| 20:39:18 | karamazovapy | I'm assuming no |
| 20:39:37 | sam686 | stock maps don't have team rabbit, team bitmatch, team nexus |
| 20:39:56 | raptor | probably not - i'm not even sure they work still, actually... |
| 20:40:04 | karamazovapy | we're discussing getting rid of all the current "stock" maps except mazeracer and starting over |
| 20:40:29 | karamazovapy | so the status quo doesn't matter much |
| 20:40:48 | raptor | i consider everything broken unless i've played it in the last week |
| 20:41:00 | sam686 | most of stock maps seems to be too big for small number of players we have. |
| 20:41:26 | karamazovapy | that's one of the big reasons we're talking about choosing/building a new set |
| 20:41:30 | raptor | sam686: yes, we are starting over with maps |
| 20:42:32 | sam686 | but then, there is sometimes a group of 20 people that show up on bitfighter at the same time, maybe coming from a computer lab.. |
| 20:42:53 | raptor | so maybe leave in a larger map? |
| 20:43:17 | raptor | 1 small / 1 medium? Also a lot of people have their own maps, to which these would just be added |
| 20:43:27 | raptor | (per gametype) |
| 20:43:45 | sam686 | probably can set a min players limit for big maps |
| 20:44:16 | karamazovapy | I'm just going to make a set of one map per gametype and then if we like them, we can adjust and use them. |
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| 20:45:29 | raptor | great! |
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| 21:10:57 | karamazovapy | I've had a couple editor crashes when using the delete key to remove barriers |
| 21:12:09 | raptor | noooo |
| 21:12:17 | raptor | ok, let me get you the latest build.../ |
| 21:12:46 | raptor | is there an easy way to dupe? |
| 21:23:07 | raptor | here you go karamazovapy: http://sam686.maxhushahn.com/upload/bitfighter-016-RC1.7z |
| 21:23:26 | raptor | crashes are always critical |
| 21:32:55 | karamazovapy | I've got a really basic soccer level, but it should play pretty well |
| 21:47:25 | karamazovapy | made a bitmatch |
| 21:47:34 | karamazovapy | so that's 3/9 |
| 21:53:41 | raptor | who is jonathan hansen? |
| 21:54:13 | raptor | he's in the credits |
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| 22:03:42 | karamazovapy | got a rabbit level |
| 22:04:10 | raptor | yay |
| 22:04:20 | karamazovapy | jonathan hansen is... |
| 22:04:21 | raptor | how is the crashing? (are you using the new binary?) |
| 22:05:03 | karamazovapy | I want to say that's bobdaduck? don't remember. |
| 22:05:39 | | BlackBird Quit (Quit: Page closed) |
| 22:06:13 | raptor | ah, yes it is, according to the forum profile |
| 22:06:48 | karamazovapy | crashing isn't so bad - but I haven't put the new binary on my lappy yet |
| 22:07:01 | raptor | ah ok |
| 22:10:03 | karamazovapy | care to see the new additions? |
| 22:10:39 | | BFLogBot - Commit cd55b007f56e | Author: sam8641 | Log: Fix player join while teleporter is in a middle of long delay, added mConnectionVersion so it may be easier for client / server compatibility of future versions of 016 |
| 22:10:58 | raptor | yes, but not at the moment... i'm a bit busy at work |
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| 22:17:14 | | Watusimoto has joined |
| 22:22:08 | raptor | hi Watusimoto |
| 22:22:17 | Watusimoto | hola |
| 22:22:24 | raptor | karamazovapy made our list nicer: http://bitfighter.org/wiki/index.php?title=Release_Notes_016 |
| 22:22:43 | raptor | the top part is just pieces from the rest |
| 22:22:50 | raptor | i threw it together |
| 22:22:55 | Watusimoto | great |
| 22:23:00 | raptor | so changes are welcome |
| 22:23:22 | Watusimoto | hi sam -- can you you briefly explain what your teleporter fix does? |
| 22:23:43 | raptor | Watusimoto: does <Tab> complete names in your IRC client? |
| 22:23:58 | Watusimoto | raptor: appaerntly so |
| 22:24:04 | raptor | :) |
| 22:24:36 | Watusimoto | hi sam686 -- can you you briefly explain what your teleporter fix does? |
| 22:24:39 | Watusimoto | like that? |
| 22:24:41 | raptor | hehe |
| 22:24:44 | raptor | yep |
| 22:24:51 | Watusimoto | useful trick |
| 22:25:57 | sam686 | the teleporter fix, without the fix, when long delay teleporter is used, then any client who join will incorrectly think the teleporter is available, when it is actually not, due to long delay |
| 22:26:09 | Watusimoto | ah, I see |
| 22:26:35 | Watusimoto | is delay adjustable? |
| 22:27:03 | sam686 | yes, but not yet added as editor attribute, but it does save and load teleporter delay |
| 22:27:14 | Watusimoto | and delay is the time during which the teleporter is unavailable after someone goes through it |
| 22:27:16 | sam686 | yes |
| 22:28:11 | Watusimoto | is the teleporter rendered differently when it is not available? |
| 22:28:24 | sam686 | it is not rendered at all when it is not available.. |
| 22:28:36 | Watusimoto | make sense |
| 22:30:22 | sam686 | i could try to start to add the teleporter editor attribute, want me to start adding it? |
| 22:30:35 | Watusimoto | no, I don;t think we should do that now |
| 22:30:59 | sam686 | ok... |
| 22:31:09 | Watusimoto | it seems that for the ordinary game, that is not something we want the users to futz with |
| 22:31:27 | Watusimoto | I'm thinking that might be better as a dungeon type of setting |
| 22:32:12 | sam686 | maybe, but some rabbit maps with teleporters, a 1.5 second delay seems too long which is difficult to catch the rabbit who teleports a lot.. |
| 22:32:16 | Watusimoto | why am I not seeing any recent checkins in the repo? |
| 22:32:33 | sam686 | hg pull? |
| 22:32:37 | Watusimoto | is 1.5 the default? |
| 22:33:00 | sam686 | yes, 1.5 seconds has always been the default (and was the only option in 015) |
| 22:35:50 | Watusimoto | hg pull shows me up to date, but the latest version I have is my checkin from last night |
| 22:35:59 | | Wolfy has joined |
| 22:36:24 | | Wolfy is now known as Guest91116 |
| 22:36:41 | Watusimoto | I'll just have to fix a bug and try to check in and see what happens! |
| 22:38:18 | Guest91116 | Hey |
| 22:38:34 | sam686 | hi |
| 22:38:43 | Guest91116 | My phine messed up can you kick my LoneWolfy so i can change back? |
| 22:38:51 | raptor | if the teleport thing is for dungeon, we should take it out of the release notes |
| 22:39:01 | | LoneWolfy was kicked from #bitfighter by raptor |
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| 22:40:07 | Watusimoto | I think we should |
| 22:40:10 | | LoneWolfy has joined |
| 22:40:17 | LoneWolfy | Ok cool |
| 22:40:26 | raptor | ok, editing.. |
| 22:40:31 | Watusimoto | that's bordering on altering the fundamental contsants fo the game |
| 22:40:38 | Watusimoto | or so it seems to me |
| 22:40:59 | Watusimoto | I think that generally, teleports should all act the same |
| 22:41:52 | raptor | looks like it wasn't there anyways.. |
| 22:41:55 | sam686 | you could say that to any game items, like SpeedZone... |
| 22:43:18 | sam686 | maybe, a bigger size SpeedZone go faster? |
| 22:43:20 | Watusimoto | that's true, though the teleporter delay seems like more of an implementation detail than a fundamental property of the item |
| 22:43:48 | Watusimoto | or maybe some sort of health bar type speed gauge just below it |
| 22:44:11 | raptor | Watusimoto: if you didnt' know karamazovapy is making a new level for each gametype so we can scrap the old levelset |
| 22:44:18 | Watusimoto | Id never really thought about that before, and want to give the matter some sthought |
| 22:44:20 | Watusimoto | really? |
| 22:44:23 | raptor | yes |
| 22:44:33 | raptor | he has done 4 gametypes so far, i thnk (of the nine) |
| 22:44:49 | Watusimoto | I guess it's a 016a feature now, but I think we really need to get the playlist concept working |
| 22:45:20 | Watusimoto | I'd like to ideally distribute the classic levels, but not have them played by default |
| 22:45:37 | Watusimoto | but for now if those levles pan out, that would be great |
| 22:45:57 | Watusimoto | suddenly tortoise shows me sams recent checkins |
| 22:46:15 | Watusimoto | and raptors |
| 22:46:20 | raptor | we willed them to your computer |
| 22:46:36 | sam686 | did you now hit the refresh button? or close and reopen repository window? |
| 22:46:53 | Watusimoto | why no score changing in core game? |
| 22:47:15 | Watusimoto | I committed something -- that's what forced the visual refresh |
| 22:47:44 | Watusimoto | script items aside, I think wall rendering in the editor now works properly |
| 22:47:52 | sam686 | there is no such thing as score limit in Core, as CoreGameType score should only count the remaining Cores or similar |
| 22:48:02 | Watusimoto | with outlines, centerlines, and fills all drawin in the proper order |
| 22:48:07 | Watusimoto | please prove me wrong! |
| 22:48:20 | raptor | because that would mean dynamically adding cores? |
| 22:48:33 | Watusimoto | oh right, of course |
| 22:48:53 | raptor | editor experiment |
| 22:48:58 | raptor | make a barrier |
| 22:49:02 | raptor | delete barrier |
| 22:49:06 | raptor | outline is still there? |
| 22:49:38 | Watusimoto | crud |
| 22:49:44 | Watusimoto | easy fix though |
| 22:49:59 | Watusimoto | I was joking when I said prove me wrong... :-( |
| 22:50:10 | raptor | haha |
| 22:50:44 | | BFLogBot - Commit 222417495933 | Author: watusim...@bitfighter.org | Log: Fix rendering of outline of selected polywalls |
| 22:50:45 | | BFLogBot - Commit 5a82c80f26d2 | Author: watusim...@bitfighter.org | Log: Merge |
| 22:51:04 | Watusimoto | wall rendering is SO fussy |
| 22:51:29 | raptor | already fixed it? |
| 22:53:35 | raptor | ok, gotta go to my first den meeting! |
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| 23:20:50 | | BFLogBot - Commit 548e16e095fa | Author: watusim...@bitfighter.org | Log: Comments and such |
| 23:20:51 | | BFLogBot - Commit c48fe2a2ba61 | Author: watusim...@bitfighter.org | Log: Wall outlines now properly rendered after delete |
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| 23:24:41 | Guest12901 | Hi its Lone Wolf on the PC |
| 23:26:23 | Guest12901 | i just decided to check in |
| 23:27:11 | Guest12901 | ok g2g |
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| 23:49:22 | karamazovapy | I won't worry about the levels if we don't actually want to create a different set |
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