Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
| 00:00:50 | raptor | good read: http://gafferongames.com/networking-for-game-programmers/what-every-programmer-needs-to-know-about-game-networking/ |
| 00:01:32 | raptor | we could actually improve our network latency problems with some ideas in there.. |
| 00:01:49 | raptor | unless TNL already does it all.... |
| 00:02:01 | raptor | and i'm just unfamiliar with it.. |
| 00:26:13 | Watusimoto | will look tomorrow |
| 00:26:29 | Watusimoto | I read a lot of that stuff when I was just starting out |
| 00:28:26 | Watusimoto | tnl does no latency handling; that's all done by zap code |
| 00:29:13 | Watusimoto | ok, pushed some code, going to bed |
| 00:29:15 | Watusimoto | later! |
| 00:31:09 | | BFLogBot - Commit 09ceba299154 | Author: watusim...@bitfighter.org | Log: Whitespace |
| 00:31:11 | | BFLogBot - Commit 1b06ff2d60a3 | Author: watusim...@bitfighter.org | Log: Comments |
| 00:31:12 | | BFLogBot - Commit 977962ec92aa | Author: watusim...@bitfighter.org | Log: Comment |
| 00:31:14 | | BFLogBot - Commit 845b91007d39 | Author: watusim...@bitfighter.org | Log: Left things a little messy, but HS now only steers towards targets in a cone it's "facing", changed projectile dynamics. Will clean up a little tomorrow, but want to give folks a chance to try this. |
| 00:31:15 | | BFLogBot - Commit 4fdc0bcd1b33 | Author: watusim...@bitfighter.org | Log: Merge |
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| 00:56:19 | | Little_Apple has joined |
| 00:56:23 | Little_Apple | hellooo |
| 00:56:28 | raptor | hi |
| 00:56:35 | Little_Apple | wazzap |
| 00:56:37 | raptor | sam686: have you tried watusimoto's new heat seeker changes? |
| 00:56:50 | sam686 | hi |
| 00:57:17 | raptor | heat seeker is constant speed now, and much much faster... |
| 00:57:23 | Little_Apple | HEAT SEEEEEKKKERRRRRRR |
| 00:58:25 | Little_Apple | CAN I TEST TO FIND ANY BUGS FOR MAC???? |
| 00:59:06 | raptor | Little_Apple: not much has changed since last build I gave you (I think) |
| 00:59:16 | Little_Apple | BUT… HEAT SEEKER!! |
| 00:59:18 | raptor | did you have heat seeker in your last build? |
| 00:59:40 | Little_Apple | no... |
| 00:59:43 | raptor | oh.. |
| 00:59:45 | Little_Apple | ._. |
| 00:59:49 | raptor | ok, i'll give you a build to test |
| 00:59:57 | Little_Apple | :D |
| 00:59:57 | sam686 | you need to select loadout to see heat seeker weapon.. |
| 01:00:11 | Little_Apple | yep |
| 01:00:15 | sam686 | and its only for 018, not 017 |
| 01:00:37 | Little_Apple | yep |
| 01:00:37 | raptor | that's right - you last tested teleporter for me |
| 01:00:43 | Little_Apple | yea :P |
| 01:02:03 | raptor | well... heat seeker is being completely changed now |
| 01:02:12 | raptor | i'm not sure i like the new changes sam686 |
| 01:02:14 | Little_Apple | heh |
| 01:02:31 | sam686 | still compiling, i haven't seen the latest changes |
| 01:02:48 | raptor | there is a lot less 'seeking' to it... |
| 01:03:11 | Little_Apple | heh |
| 01:08:13 | Little_Apple | err... |
| 01:10:11 | Little_Apple | errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... |
| 01:10:25 | raptor | building now... |
| 01:10:46 | Little_Apple | woo |
| 01:20:56 | Little_Apple | helloo? |
| 01:21:01 | raptor | hi |
| 01:21:05 | raptor | oops, forgot... |
| 01:22:14 | raptor | ok Little_Apple: http://sam686.maxhushahn.com/upload/Bitfighter-018-beta3.zip |
| 01:22:28 | Little_Apple | yay! |
| 01:22:33 | raptor | sorry, i got distracted asking a question on a forum... |
| 01:22:40 | Little_Apple | lol :P |
| 01:24:10 | raptor | you still around sam686? |
| 01:24:51 | Little_Apple | i think the heat seaker should be a little slower... |
| 01:25:15 | Little_Apple | right now it just zooms by someone and bends a little torwards them |
| 01:25:28 | raptor | it's was waaay different before |
| 01:25:35 | sam686 | I think heat seeker goes too fast, its more like a super-fast bullet instead.. |
| 01:26:21 | | BFLogBot - Commit 097cb5eb5e60 | Author: sam8641 | Log: Fix a runtime error, and fix blank game list on lobby list for quick rejoin. |
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| 05:18:04 | raptor | oh boy oh boy |
| 05:18:09 | raptor | mars rover going to land! |
| 06:09:10 | raptor | it landed! (about 30 min. ago...) |
| 06:09:14 | raptor | yay! |
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| 12:24:28 | | -jtrucks- [GLOBAL NOTICE] The human eye is a wonderful device. With a little effort, it can fail to see even the most glaring injustice. |
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| 15:25:46 | raptor | good morning! |
| 15:25:50 | watusimoto | hi |
| 15:25:55 | raptor | soo... |
| 15:26:00 | watusimoto | ok, so I read that article you linked to last night |
| 15:26:05 | watusimoto | and can answer any questions |
| 15:26:42 | raptor | i understand all of it except whether or not we do the client-side prediction with a circular buffer like they mentioned |
| 15:27:14 | watusimoto | I don't think we do |
| 15:27:14 | raptor | i know we do prediction in many areas |
| 15:27:31 | watusimoto | we run a parallel simulation of events on client and server |
| 15:27:36 | raptor | but not sure if we use the trick about rebasing the object state on the returned server state |
| 15:27:39 | watusimoto | and update the cleint when we et new info |
| 15:28:07 | watusimoto | and when there is disagreement we don't rewind and resimulate (though there are hints here and there that suggest that might be supported) |
| 15:28:24 | watusimoto | instead we slowly nudge the two simulations closer together |
| 15:28:32 | raptor | is that what 'ActualState' and 'RenderState' stuff is for? |
| 15:28:40 | watusimoto | actualstate is what the server says |
| 15:28:43 | raptor | because i was never quite clear on it... |
| 15:28:50 | watusimoto | renderstate is what the client is showing |
| 15:28:55 | watusimoto | there is no renderstate on server |
| 15:28:59 | raptor | yes |
| 15:29:06 | raptor | i mean, i understand |
| 15:29:30 | raptor | but does our client-side actually do recalculations between the two? |
| 15:29:32 | watusimoto | on client, if those states are different, that means there is a problem that is rectified by adding apparent movement to bring them back together |
| 15:29:35 | watusimoto | yes |
| 15:29:47 | watusimoto | when a ctf flag is returned to base, the server simply moves it |
| 15:30:13 | watusimoto | it looks like it is flying across the screen because the client is trying to bring the renderpos back to the actualpos |
| 15:30:27 | raptor | ha |
| 15:30:28 | watusimoto | it does it by moving the flag rather than just having it jump |
| 15:30:54 | watusimoto | with the falg it doesn't make sense, but with a ship, it would look lame if ships kept jumping here and there |
| 15:30:59 | raptor | interesting... i thought that was for the coolness factor |
| 15:31:00 | watusimoto | instead they look like they are flying |
| 15:31:08 | watusimoto | no, I think it is actually a bug |
| 15:31:15 | raptor | ha! ok |
| 15:31:21 | raptor | everything seems clearer now... |
| 15:31:24 | raptor | :) |
| 15:31:26 | watusimoto | the server *should* send a bit suggesting the flag has warped |
| 15:31:40 | watusimoto | instead it looks to the client like it just moved |
| 15:32:08 | watusimoto | but it does look kind of cool, but can be confusing if you pick up the flag when it looks like it is flying half a map away |
| 15:32:40 | raptor | ok, that means for heat-seeker - i don't think i coded client-side prediction, because i return early in the idle() loop if it isn't the server... |
| 15:32:44 | watusimoto | so we use a much simpler algo for rectifying divergent states than rewinding and replyaing |
| 15:33:01 | watusimoto | bullets are handled differently |
| 15:33:11 | watusimoto | they are all server side, with no client side prediction |
| 15:33:14 | watusimoto | that is |
| 15:33:28 | watusimoto | when you fire, we don't forecast a new bullet and create it |
| 15:33:35 | watusimoto | we wait for a message from the server to create the bullet |
| 15:33:53 | watusimoto | which is why when you are lagging, firing seems delayed |
| 15:33:58 | watusimoto | but mvememt does not |
| 15:34:11 | watusimoto | but movement does seem wierd -- when you stop, you move backwards a little |
| 15:34:35 | watusimoto | sometime try setting a high simulated lag and you can see how the algos manage divergent states |
| 15:35:09 | watusimoto | that whole mess with the soccer ball was an attempt to reduce lag by doing more client side prediction for picking the ball up, if you remember that |
| 15:35:20 | watusimoto | sam undid most of the code I wrote for that |
| 15:35:27 | raptor | i remember the mess, yes.. |
| 15:35:28 | watusimoto | because it didn't quite work |
| 15:35:36 | watusimoto | and now pickup is goine anyway |
| 15:35:43 | raptor | but i never understood what was going on... |
| 15:36:19 | watusimoto | I was trying to let the client predict you were picking up the ball rather than waiting for the server to tell the client it had picked up the ball |
| 15:36:40 | watusimoto | basically, lag sucks |
| 15:36:44 | raptor | heh |
| 15:36:46 | raptor | yep |
| 15:36:52 | raptor | ok, thanks for clarifying |
| 15:36:54 | watusimoto | does that help? |
| 15:36:56 | raptor | yes |
| 15:37:09 | raptor | so, now... on to heat seeker |
| 15:37:15 | watusimoto | I read lots of artilces on that site while starting on bg |
| 15:37:17 | watusimoto | bf |
| 15:37:22 | watusimoto | yes, heat seeker |
| 15:37:31 | raptor | honestly, i think your idea is way different than what i had in mind... |
| 15:37:39 | raptor | there is a lot less 'seeking' involved :) |
| 15:37:41 | watusimoto | in what sense |
| 15:37:46 | watusimoto | ah |
| 15:37:53 | raptor | also, it goes waay fast |
| 15:37:54 | watusimoto | well, what's there is not what I think it shoul dbe |
| 15:37:59 | raptor | ok |
| 15:38:11 | watusimoto | the major thing I did that I do like is that it only seeks objects that are in front of it |
| 15:38:18 | watusimoto | rather than, say, behind |
| 15:38:35 | watusimoto | which seems more realistic somehow |
| 15:38:43 | raptor | after testing with sam686 and Little_Apple, it was mentioned that it is little different than a mildly more-on-target bullet |
| 15:38:56 | raptor | if you get lucky |
| 15:38:58 | watusimoto | yes, the seeking effect is weak |
| 15:39:04 | watusimoto | and not terribly useful |
| 15:39:14 | watusimoto | maybe slowing it will help |
| 15:39:23 | watusimoto | maybe letting it turn more sharply will help |
| 15:39:39 | watusimoto | maybe increasing the "cone" of detection will help |
| 15:39:53 | raptor | what did you think of my idea to have it increase in speed the straighter it was going? |
| 15:40:12 | watusimoto | I didn't like it -- it made me feel there was a problem with my connection |
| 15:40:16 | watusimoto | which there was :-) |
| 15:40:21 | raptor | ha |
| 15:40:51 | watusimoto | because all other projectiles are constant speed, this just felt wrong |
| 15:40:52 | watusimoto | but your code is still there, only commented out |
| 15:41:11 | raptor | ok |
| 15:41:21 | watusimoto | but if you are suggesting my mods made it worse, I might agree |
| 15:41:25 | raptor | ideas for graphics? |
| 15:41:47 | watusimoto | my kids want a elongated purple triangle with white flames |
| 15:42:04 | watusimoto | but that's the least of the issues at the moment |
| 15:42:21 | raptor | heh |
| 15:42:34 | watusimoto | it might be a cool effect to show some sort of seeking or locking action |
| 15:42:43 | watusimoto | like a light line btwn missle and target |
| 15:42:56 | watusimoto | or sonar like effect |
| 15:43:09 | watusimoto | something to instill fear |
| 15:43:44 | raptor | i'd say the cone of detection should be pi or close to pi in front |
| 15:43:49 | watusimoto | so give me another go-round with it tonight, and let's see if I can bring it back into line with what you are thinking |
| 15:43:52 | raptor | tau /2 |
| 15:43:56 | watusimoto | pi is 90deg |
| 15:44:01 | watusimoto | no 180 deg |
| 15:44:04 | watusimoto | yes, maybe |
| 15:44:11 | watusimoto | that's what I started with, and made a math error |
| 15:44:15 | watusimoto | which is why it is what it is |
| 15:44:38 | watusimoto | I checked in at 2:15 -- I just wanted to get the code in that wasn't broken |
| 15:44:42 | raptor | hmmm |
| 15:45:09 | watusimoto | 180 deg might be good |
| 15:45:18 | raptor | that normalizeAngle function should return between -tau/2 and tau/2 |
| 15:45:39 | watusimoto | I though it only returned positive, which was the source of my error |
| 15:45:50 | raptor | maybe i wrote it wrong... |
| 15:45:54 | watusimoto | you didn't |
| 15:46:03 | watusimoto | it was my mistake |
| 15:46:10 | raptor | oh i get it now |
| 15:47:49 | watusimoto | so I think I can fix it pretty easily and make it work more like we both seem to think it should |
| 15:48:06 | watusimoto | but get rid of some of what I saw as abberant behavior with the first try |
| 15:48:09 | raptor | ok, i'll let you tinker more before i get any more ideas... |
| 15:48:14 | watusimoto | :-) |
| 15:48:47 | raptor | also... curiosity landed! |
| 15:50:23 | watusimoto | I saw |
| 15:50:24 | watusimoto | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le2cWsISOE4 |
| 15:50:27 | watusimoto | 0:36 |
| 15:50:32 | watusimoto | shows a heat seeker |
| 15:50:35 | watusimoto | it goes slow |
| 15:51:03 | watusimoto | sorry 0:43 |
| 15:51:21 | raptor | interesting - looks like constant speed |
| 15:51:28 | raptor | ok, i capitulate |
| 15:51:37 | watusimoto | just looking for ideas |
| 15:52:42 | watusimoto | here's one that changes speed |
| 15:52:47 | watusimoto | :0:50ish |
| 15:53:11 | watusimoto | 0:47, watch in the right hand side |
| 15:54:17 | watusimoto | I call that one "when heat seekers get silly" |
| 15:55:06 | raptor | i'm not sure i'm finding what you're looking at |
| 15:55:45 | watusimoto | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcU689Pvt4w |
| 15:55:46 | watusimoto | sorry |
| 15:55:57 | watusimoto | stupid linux and their crappy clipboard |
| 15:56:35 | raptor | haha |
| 15:56:45 | raptor | that's exactly what one of my first iterations did in game |
| 15:56:54 | watusimoto | I really don't like the implementation, but there are some good ideas |
| 15:57:13 | watusimoto | they should go faster, not turn 180 degrees, but I like the idea of some sort of tracer effect |
| 15:57:56 | watusimoto | was also thinking we could add a proximity fuse; don't need a direct hit to explode and damage |
| 15:58:50 | raptor | i did the proximity fuse in my first iteration |
| 15:59:04 | raptor | did work so well when it got going really fast... |
| 15:59:07 | raptor | *didn't |
| 16:00:17 | raptor | that was one of the questions i wanted to ask you - whether you thought it should a point damage weapon, or area damage |
| 16:02:02 | watusimoto | not sure yet |
| 16:02:12 | watusimoto | if it works well enough, point would be better |
| 16:02:14 | watusimoto | I think |
| 16:02:36 | raptor | also, another question was: highenergy/high-yield, or lower energy, lower yield? |
| 16:02:51 | raptor | yield = damage |
| 16:03:59 | raptor | hey, my question got 5 votes already!: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11821723/keeping-code-in-a-client-server-game-organized |
| 16:04:12 | raptor | i should use a different username... that is my work user |
| 16:05:25 | watusimoto | just upvoted you |
| 16:05:32 | raptor | did i make sense? |
| 16:05:40 | watusimoto | haven't read it yet :-) |
| 16:05:48 | raptor | ha! shame shame |
| 16:06:10 | raptor | i don't hink i understand the highest rated answer... |
| 16:06:22 | watusimoto | well written |
| 16:07:41 | watusimoto | I don't like either answer |
| 16:08:09 | raptor | i purposefully didn't put in any ideas i had so i could get answers clear of bias |
| 16:09:01 | raptor | that bytemaster guy wrote the mace-rpc library - and i still don't understand its purpose |
| 16:10:05 | watusimoto | forgot parens here: |
| 16:10:06 | watusimoto | void Ship::renderExplosion |
| 16:10:17 | watusimoto | in .cpp and .h |
| 16:10:17 | raptor | oops |
| 16:11:23 | raptor | fixed, thanks |
| 16:11:32 | raptor | and that's why you don't write questions late at night... |
| 16:52:12 | watusimoto | ok, back later |
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| 19:04:04 | krummi1999 | hello everybody |
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| 20:39:49 | raptor | hi |
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| 21:06:50 | raptor | be back in a bit.. |
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