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IRC Log for 2012-11-25

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

00:12:23Watusimotonot sure what this means:
00:12:25WatusimotoAddress 0xfe42669 is 169 bytes inside a block of size 360 free'd
00:12:55Watusimotobut this looks very bad
00:12:57Watusimoto Invalid write of size 4
00:12:57Watusimoto==17149== at 0x58C8D6: Zap::EditorObject::setVertexLitUp(int) (BfObject.cpp:367)
00:12:57Watusimoto==17149== by 0x58C8A7: Zap::EditorObject::setLitUp(bool) (BfObject.cpp:355)
00:12:57Watusimoto==17149== by 0x4685F5: Zap::EditorUserInterface::onMouseMoved() (UIEditor.cpp:2798)
00:13:07raptorfoudn another (invalid read this time:) http://pastie.org/5429584
00:13:10Watusimotothis coincides with where I've been poking around
00:14:02raptorso is an EditorObject deleted, then being written to?
00:14:50Watusimotothat's what it looks like
00:16:27Watusimotoevery editor object has a serial number (getSerialNumber) that might be helpful here
00:17:48raptorsooo... maybe EditorObject is not getting cleaned up??
00:18:13Watusimotomaybe
00:18:47raptorwhich is weird - i can't find it actually being used anywhere...
00:19:28raptorhey
00:19:40raptortry adding a virtual destructor
00:19:44raptorBfObject.h
00:19:49raptorline 183
00:20:44raptori wonder if that's it...
00:21:16WatusimotoI was just adding that for logging purposes... I doubt its it, but would be great if it were!
00:22:45raptorhuh, i cannot link with that in...
00:30:07raptorrats, invalid reads and writes are still there...
00:30:26raptor1 read, 2 writes
00:47:24Watusimotodang.
00:47:29WatusimotoI give up for tonight
00:47:41raptori can commit my virtual destructor changes, at least
00:47:51raptorcould this be it?: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9232845/valgrind-invalid-read-write-list
00:47:52WatusimotoI logged a bunch of stuff, found no double deletes, or accesses to deleted objects
00:48:12raptorsee accepted answer
00:50:04Watusimotocopy constr?
00:51:04raptoryeah.. i don't know..
00:51:07raptorbut dinner time!
00:51:21Watusimotonight
00:51:26WatusimotoI think the problm is in onMouseMoved
00:51:29Watusimotofor some reason
00:51:33Watusimotolater
00:52:00sam686oh and don't forget, copy constructor and struct/class "=" copy which is 2 seperate things.
01:00:15amgine1234567890lol is the bug that difficult to cure?
01:05:00raptorhi sam686
01:20:02raptorgood night Watusimoto
01:25:11amgine1234567890well i wish i knew C++ but i dont =p
01:25:20amgine1234567890if i did i would try to help you =p
01:44:45Watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
02:12:09amgine1234567890any luck?
02:54:32raptorok sam686, i've tested the latest code in the editor - it only crashes on those HEAP_CHECK() lines - if i run outside the debugger, i get no crash
02:54:39raptoris this similar for you?
03:14:21BFLogBot Commit: e504f268b111 | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Add virtual destructor for EditorObject
03:31:01BFLogBot Commit: 02cb9cad4e5d | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Method spellings
03:45:11amgine1234567890lol
03:57:38BFLogBot Commit: f6d618459770 | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Revert some of watusimoto's debug code... this doesn't seem to be the issue anymore
03:57:39BFLogBot Commit: 01b99deab09c | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Fix two more valgrind errors, one of which was the invalid read we were getting: we were not setting mHitItem to NULL
04:11:21BFLogBot Commit: 5b1cd9932cc7 | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Fix the invalid writes detected by valgrind. Use of a SafePtr was an obvious solution I should have thought of sooner..
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04:22:04raptorok, good night - i think i fixed windows crashing...
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14:24:03raptorgood day!
14:34:01raptorWatusimoto: maybe we can release soon! :)
14:34:31Watusimotofound a big bug in the memory leak fix last night
14:34:37raptorgreat!
14:34:42Watusimotocrashes the game fairily consistently
14:34:46WatusimotoI think I've fixed it
14:34:49Watusimototesting now
14:34:50raptorwhat!?
14:35:06WatusimotoI'll bet you never tried testing a level :-)
14:35:25raptorI... you mean loading one? no...
14:35:39Watusimotoby deleting objects in the database, we cause them to be deleted while we are destructing them
14:35:47Watusimotowhich, of course, causes all sorts of mayhem
14:35:59Watusimotobut at least it's a clear, easy to grapple with problem
14:36:12Watusimotohopefully my fix does not intruduce yet new errors
14:36:14raptorheh
14:36:37WatusimotoI had to go through and evaluate every database delete and see if we want to actually delete the object or not
14:36:46Watusimotoif I made all the right calls, then everything is ok
14:36:56Watusimotoif not... well, either more memory corruption or memory leaks
14:37:15Watusimotook, the crash is gone
14:37:30Watusimotobut ffs don't terminate on walls properly :-(
14:37:40raptorohwonderful
14:37:48Watusimotoand they don't disappear when killed
14:38:08Watusimoto(client side only problem)
14:38:12raptorall because of that clear -> deleteAndClear ?
14:38:17Watusimotowho knows
14:38:28WatusimotoI think this is a client-server sync issue
14:38:37WatusimotoI can shoot through it, so the server thinks its gone
14:38:42Watusimotoanyway, I'll check in now
14:38:45Watusimotomy kids want the computer
14:38:52raptoroh hey - that showed up around 017, too
14:39:05Watusimotowould you run this through valgrind again to at least check for new memory leaks?
14:39:12raptorsure
14:39:15WatusimotoI already fixed that ff problem once :-(
14:39:58Watusimotobut... I feel optimistic. these issues are quite easy compared to the bear you fixed last night
14:40:19raptorman - i spend a lot of time last night... and guessing.. and valgrind
14:40:41raptori finally found something that fixed the invalid read
14:40:54raptorand that was my lucky break
14:41:07WatusimotoI also was able to get rid of some duplicate remove-from-db methods
14:41:11raptoroh good
14:41:18raptorthey were a bit confusing
14:41:27Watusimotoyes, still confusing, but hopefully less so
14:41:33Watusimotook I pushed.
14:41:34BFLogBot Commit: ab23d5dfa498 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Comments
14:41:36BFLogBot Commit: 463ba760d53b | Author: watusimoto | Message: Add destructor
14:41:38BFLogBot Commit: 143ba785b4e9 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Misc cleanup
14:41:39BFLogBot Commit: 8ed39656be0e | Author: watusimoto | Message: Merge
14:41:41BFLogBot Commit: aefbe78894a2 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Eliminate duplicate destructor
14:41:42BFLogBot Commit: 5f9b9cc217ac | Author: watusimoto | Message: Remove heap checks
14:41:44BFLogBot Commit: 62b722a7b65f | Author: watusimoto | Message: Remove dead debugging code
14:41:45BFLogBot Commit: 01a4ac5efb63 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Wrap mDockItemHit in SafePtr... just to be safe. Also some other vageuly related cleanup.
14:41:46WatusimotoI'm being literally pushed off the machine
14:41:47BFLogBot Commit: a64f43300920 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Formatting
14:41:48Watusimotoso...
14:41:48BFLogBot Commit: b5b1f0822327 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Wrap another brother in SafePtr
14:41:50BFLogBot Commit: 739ca0b4d8e6 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Ok, going a little nuts here for the sake of consistency. Wrap two more. There is no way these objects could become NULL from under us, as they are copies of pointers to dock items or are otherwise things that can never be deleted from underneath us. But once burned...
14:41:51Watusimotosee you later!
14:41:51BFLogBot Commit: 42a6a1c38cc3 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Try to clarify when an object should be deleted and when it should just be removed from the database. Fixes crashes when testing levels and getting a delete inside a destructor.
14:44:00raptorlater
15:35:11raptorstill no leaks with valgrind!
15:35:25raptor(apart from random minor ones with SDL and the sound system)
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16:30:14raptorhmmm... client-side forcefields
16:30:23raptordon't appear when hosting normally..
16:30:36raptorbut through the editor, they're there
16:30:40raptorbullets go through
16:35:18Watusimotook
16:35:27Watusimotothat means they may be a relic of the editor
16:35:45Watusimotojust sitting around in memory somehow
16:35:51raptoryes
16:35:56Watusimotoso... valgrind looked ok?
16:36:25Watusimotoif so, then if we don;t experience any random crashes, we may have licked it
16:37:01raptoryes valgrind was the sam = no crazy leaks
16:37:05raptorsame
16:37:20raptorand no invlaid read/writes
16:37:56Watusimotoexcellent
16:38:06Watusimotowant me to look at the ff issue?
16:38:19raptorsure - i'm still not really sure where to begin
16:38:26Watusimotoalso... took a look at the issue of missing underlines on the json page
16:38:34raptoryes, i'll look at that
16:38:41Watusimotocould not reproduce with my own nick and 018
16:38:46Watusimototried 3x
16:38:56Watusimotoalways came up quickly and properly
16:38:58raptorreally??
16:39:00raptorhmmm
16:39:02Watusimotoyup
16:39:02raptortrying..
16:39:21WatusimotoI forgot my kids' pws so I didn't try other accounts
16:39:35raptorhappens in 017b
16:39:38raptortrying 018..
16:40:02raptor018 works...
16:40:05raptornow that is odd
16:40:09WatusimotoI think it must be a server problem, so I doubt version would make a difference
16:40:14Watusimotoand... it seems to?
16:40:24raptoryeah version makes a difference
16:40:33Watusimotowell, if it works in 018...
16:40:37Watusimotothen problem solved!
16:40:39raptori think sam686 made some changes to master recently about hacking...
16:40:42raptorhaha, yes!
16:41:02Watusimotooh, do we want to rebuild server before release?
16:41:09raptoryes!
16:41:11raptorlet me do that..
16:41:12Watusimotook
16:41:16Watusimotosure
16:41:19raptorwait
16:41:20raptorserver
16:41:22raptor?
16:41:26Watusimotooh sorry
16:41:30raptordedicated test build, or master server?
16:41:36Watusimotoafter our hack we talked about reinstalling and rebuilding everything
16:41:48raptoroh yeah
16:41:55Watusimotoremember that sordid event?
16:41:58raptorwell, i've been ssh'ing in each day to check it out...
16:42:02raptorso far nothing
16:42:10Watusimotoprobably will be nothing
16:42:19Watusimotobut if we;re going to do it we should do it before the release
16:42:26Watusimotoif we're not, it doesn;t really matter
16:42:28raptori also did some wierd file tricks like make the verified copy of sshd file-system-immutable (can't be replaced)
16:43:01raptorwell - i'm not sure i want to spend so much time on it - but it needs to be done :-/
16:43:29WatusimotoI feel like we should, mostly because it feels dirty. But that's not a rational security reason.
16:43:45raptorhmmm...
16:43:56WatusimotoIt's more like washing your hands after you touch something squishy
16:44:02raptorheh, so true
16:44:13Watusimotobut it is a lot of work
16:44:15raptoryou said there was a centos 6?
16:44:24WatusimotoI did
16:44:37raptorwell...
16:44:45raptorlet me tarball the entire filesystem :)
16:45:05Watusimotothat's the other thing -- going to centos 6 may make recurrance less likely
16:45:18raptoryes, it will, i'm sure
16:45:27Watusimotoif we have a system bug, someone else will be along to exploit it sooner or later
16:45:34raptorcentos 5 is one of the most hacked/hackable Linux systems on the planet
16:45:39Watusimotoreally?
16:45:42raptoroh yes
16:45:49Watusimotodid not know that
16:45:51raptorbecause every VPS in the world is running it
16:46:02raptorinsecurity through popularity
16:46:07Watusimotoright
16:46:11Watusimotothe opposite of macos
16:46:15raptorhaha
16:46:40raptorwell, the older kernel version is definitely prone to many many known exploits
16:47:03raptorand because it isn't an enterprise-supported system, they don't tend to get fixed as thoroughly
16:47:53Watusimotoor at all
16:48:02raptoryes :(
16:48:15raptorbut the newer kernel means more security through obscurity!
16:48:18Watusimotoso you set up the current system -- how much custom stuff did you have to do?
16:48:25raptorplenty
16:48:42Watusimotothere was a lot of random custom stuff on the first server and I don't know how much got carried through
16:48:54Watusimotoplenty
16:48:56Watusimotosigh
16:48:58raptori'm thinking that i just force a database backup
16:49:14raptorthen tarball the whole system and transfer it somewhere for safe keeping (maybe to two somewheres..)
16:49:26Watusimototwo, yes
16:51:43raptorok tarballing....
16:51:46raptorcurious
16:52:01raptordo you have a way to redirect traffic to a 'site is currently down page'?
16:52:10Watusimotono
16:52:14Watusimotowe're nevr down
16:52:24Watusimoto:-)
16:52:27raptorhaha
16:53:04Watusimotonine nines
16:53:19raptorthat's like less than a second a year?
16:53:48Watusimotosomething like that, yes
16:53:54raptorcloser to 3/100 of a second...
16:53:56Watusimotoso we better be quick
16:54:00raptornot bad..
16:54:19sam686I think the forum itself you could can put a message the forum is down, such as it was used when moving bitfighter.org to a different servers..
16:54:21WatusimotoI guess if we're going to do this, I should figure out how to log in to reset the os
16:54:37raptorwell i'm tarballing it now... so it may be a little slow
16:54:53raptorbrb
16:54:53Watusimotoof course, if we're down, no one can see the forums
16:55:19sam686but you could also just put a "die("we will be back"); in a top line of settings.php or something..
16:56:00Watusimotowell... we copy the stuff off, wipe the os, then start rewriting the system. how long would settings.php last before being overwritten?
16:56:00sam686but, thats only if we really want to be down..
16:57:01sam686I think settings.php is never overwritten or modified, it uses database for almost every data..
17:00:00sam686As with which operating system to use? I heard Debian is a lot more secure and far less exploits..
17:00:18raptorback
17:01:01raptordebian is usually hardened quite a bit, but it is frequently on older versions of software
17:02:12raptorit really depends on the software versions (newer *usually* means fewer exploits) and update frequency
17:03:06raptorWatusimoto: how much disk quota do you have for your VM?
17:03:12raptorthe disk says 15GB
17:03:20raptorbut i want to make sure..
17:03:52Watusimoto100GB?!? I am trying to find my login. My other site from the same host has 100GB
17:06:40raptorso the plan of action: tarball, db backup -> transfer, duplicate -> wipe! -> new OS -> ssh in, set up users, lock out root -> update system -> start copying files/settings servers
17:06:49sam686Could try running SSH server as a different port number.. A lot of SSH password guessing bots only connects to default SSH port number..
17:06:56raptoryes? good plan?
17:07:03raptorsam686: true
17:07:25raptorbut i think this last break in was due to php and/or bad httpd
17:07:28raptorbut i'm not sure..
17:08:11sam686looks at HTTPD logs...
17:08:20Watusimotowell, I have the billing info...
17:08:41raptorbecause *something* rewrote our ssh config to let the 'master' user in
17:08:50raptorand they didn't ssh in before that..
17:09:03raptorwe were technically rooted twice
17:09:12raptormaybe three times
17:09:48sam686did you test a reboot and see if your config changes stick?
17:09:55raptoryes, i did several
17:10:00raptorthey stuck
17:10:31sam686did you update? which might have cause config to overwrite?
17:10:45raptornope
17:10:59raptoralso RPM does not overwrite config files when updating
17:11:08Watusimotook, this isn't good
17:11:12raptor?
17:11:17Watusimotono matter which username i use, I get to the same ctrl panel
17:11:51Watusimotoeven when I use a random string of chars
17:11:56raptoroh wonderful
17:11:57WatusimotoI can log in
17:12:15Watusimotothis is security!
17:13:03Watusimotook, not "working" anymore
17:13:10Watusimotomaybe it was lastpass monkeying around
17:13:26raptoroh yay lastpass
17:13:40raptorthe single point of failure i don't have to remember!
17:13:55WatusimotoYou Have Been Blacklisted - Contact Support
17:13:58Watusimotogood grief
17:14:02raptorwhat
17:14:31Watusimototoo much screwing around with the login, I think
17:14:56raptori always keep a fresh, clean browser on hand for situations like that..
17:15:05Watusimotogood thinking!
17:15:19Watusimotobut it's probably server side
17:15:44sam686Could be the web browser cache making it look like it still logs in or something.
17:20:32Watusimotook dinner time
17:20:38Watusimotohave requested deblacklisting
17:20:41Watusimotowill be back later
17:20:44raptorok
17:26:44Watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
17:49:50sam686I wonder if that is how some spam bots tries to bypass captha in forum register.. looking at access_log error_log, there is this:
17:49:51sam686"GET /forums/ucp.php?mode=register+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Result:+text+captcha+decoded;+chosen+nickname+%22Dawnolkr%22;+registered;+login+failed;+Result:+text+captcha+decoded;+chosen+nickname+%22Dawnolkr%22;+registered;+login+failed; HTTP/1.0"
17:50:48raptorwow
18:00:53Watusimoto has joined
18:02:50Watusimotobtw -- I was blacklisted on firefox too!
18:02:58raptorha
18:06:03koda has joined
18:09:22raptorWatusimoto: there is a folder on the server called 'bforg' at / - is that the older server stuff?
18:09:36WatusimotoI think so
18:15:46raptorthis is compressing soooo slowly
18:20:42WatusimotoFINALLY
18:20:49Watusimotohave access to bf.org ctrl panel
18:20:54raptoroh yay
18:21:06raptoryour 20min sit-in-the-corner punishment is over?
18:22:46Watusimotostupid site
18:24:09raptori'd say to go with centos 6 - but what are your choices again?
18:27:16Watusimotook, disk stats
18:27:16Watusimoto5.07 GB of 15 GB Used / 9.93 GB Free
18:27:32raptoryes, 1.5GB of that is my currently compressing archive...
18:27:35Watusimotocent 5/6 32/64 bit
18:27:42raptorhow much RAM?
18:27:58Watusimotodebian 5/6
18:28:05Watusimotofedora 14/16
18:28:21Watusimotoslackware 13.37 (and earlier)
18:28:26raptorha
18:28:34Watusimotowhole bunch of ubuntus
18:28:54Watusimotomemory: 382.68 MB of 768 MB Used / 385.32 MB Free
18:29:14Watusimotobandwidth: 3.3 GB of 250 GB Used / 246.7 GB Free
18:29:21Watusimotoand we're at month's end
18:29:32raptorhmm
18:29:58raptorif you were to go with a new centos 6 server how much RAM would you get? the same?
18:30:11Watusimotoyes, I think so
18:30:14raptorbecause if so, we may want ot stick with 32bit
18:30:28raptor64bit might be a bit faster, but has a higher ram usage
18:30:44Watusimotolooking at load stats -- I can see a spike where you are compressing
18:30:47raptorbut maybe RAM isn't really a problem...
18:30:56Watusimotoneither is speed, frankly
18:31:05raptorexcept when compressing!
18:31:13Watusimotomemory is pretty constant
18:31:19Watusimotoat least over the past week
18:31:39raptorthere should be a spike mid-oct -> mid -nov
18:31:46raptorwhere were were doubly rooted
18:34:59Watusimotohttp://img24.imageshack.us/img24/8181/bandwidthabfb74e249b6b1.png
18:35:26Watusimotoand http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6772/610loadbb7b5ea3913d30fe.png
18:35:51Watusimotobig transfer spike
18:35:58raptoroh yeah
18:36:03raptorweird
18:36:04Watusimotobig incoming, then big outgoinf
18:36:16raptoryeah, i found out the mailing server was active
18:36:51Watusimotoso for the whole year, pretty constant 400MB memory
18:37:00Watusimotovery rare spikes above that
18:37:10raptorok, let's try 64bit centos 6, then
18:37:10Watusimotoonly once above 600
18:37:16raptorunless you have a preference for anything else
18:37:28raptor(because.. it's your VPS) :)
18:37:44Watusimotomax ever 706
18:37:48Watusimotolet's do it
18:38:02Watusimotocentos 6 64 bit it is
18:38:55Watusimotointeresting
18:39:10Watusimotothey claim I have 384 MB memory, burstable to 768
18:39:17raptoroh
18:39:20Watusimotobut I'm always above that
18:39:23raptorthat's... bad
18:39:40Watusimotothen their stats meter says
18:39:41Watusimoto400.46 MB of 768 MB Used / 367.54 MB Free
18:39:51Watusimotowhich suggests they expect me to use more than 384
18:39:58raptorhuh
18:40:07Watusimotoyeah... so we must have 768
18:40:51raptordisk performance is horrid
18:43:00Watusimotowhoa
18:43:06Watusimotomy other server only has 128 mb
18:43:08Watusimotomemory
18:43:13raptorblech
18:43:20raptorwas that the old master?
18:43:23Watusimotoand I have 64bit centos there!
18:43:37Watusimotono this is for a different project that I've never gotten off my butt to code
18:43:44Watusimototrivial site, would take a day
18:43:53Watusimotolike pastie, but different niche
18:44:45Watusimoto49.37 MB of 128 MB Used / 78.63 MB Free on that site
18:45:01WatusimotoI was seeing if it would make sense to switch servers to my other one.. but clearly not
18:48:11raptorsigh - restarting this compression with some housekeeping first...
18:50:32LordDVG has joined
18:51:20sam686could of just compress multiple smaller parts... If compressing takes a long time, good luck trying to download them.. Oh and avoid getting the entire bitfighter master files, it just needs configuration and maybe log files..
18:51:31raptorthat's what i'm doing...
18:52:29sam686if you can pause/resume downloads as with most HTTP websites, then downloading won't be much of a problem..
18:55:14raptorah, the mysql back up folder...
18:55:31raptorit's 350MB...
19:04:49raptorthere should be a spike in traffic as I transfer the dumps...
19:06:49sam686maybe transfering dumps is very slow, i guess.. At one time, i could only download at about 4 Mbps from the bitfighter.org..
19:07:05raptori'm using my work computer... :)
19:07:15raptori average about 1.5 MB/s
19:07:47sam686it could be multiple other VPS hogging the bandwidth..
19:09:45raptorok, i'll be back in a few min...
19:20:31BFLogBot Commit: bae4718512d8 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Comments
19:20:33BFLogBot Commit: e1376c68774d | Author: watusimoto | Message: Comments
19:20:34BFLogBot Commit: 5434741a3c69 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Whitespace
19:20:36BFLogBot Commit: ce12bb9c5713 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Reduce magic strings
19:20:37BFLogBot Commit: 82329a0789fb | Author: watusimoto | Message: Hacky fix to spurious forcefield issue when testing level from editor
19:22:53Watusimotocan anyone explain the seeker bug on the running buglist about prediction and forcefields?
19:23:08Watusimotokoda: what do I do with my gci idea(s)
19:42:35raptorhi Watusimoto
19:42:44raptorthe seeker bug was more or less fixed by sam686
19:42:48Watusimotohi
19:42:56Watusimotook, because it seems to work reasonably well for me
19:43:10raptori think the seeker client/server logic probably needs to be cleaned up, but it works well enough for now
19:44:27raptorok, well, the server backup is still pretty slow, even though I filtered almost everything we don't need...
19:44:38raptorand i'm taking off for a few hours
19:44:48raptori'll be back in about 3.5 or so
19:45:36Watusimotook, I'll probably be in bed
19:45:43Watusimototomorrow will be a tricky day for me
19:45:47raptorok, so maybe server move tomorrow?
19:45:49raptoror.. not
19:46:05Watusimotowell, I have a meeting in Luxembourg city that will likely last well into the evening
19:46:24Watusimotoand I may not be in a good shape for doing much when I get home
19:46:30raptorok
19:46:49Watusimotobut I can try to check in, and will verly likely be able to do the os reinstall
19:46:52Watusimotothat is pretty simple
19:46:57raptorok
19:47:04raptorthen i could take it from there
19:47:17Watusimotobut it will probably be around 1AM, here. It's 9PM here now
19:47:21Watusimotojust for reference
19:47:39raptorok
19:47:46Watusimotobut its also possible something will come up and I won't be on
19:47:53Watusimotobut if not tomorrow, then Tues for sure
19:47:58raptorok no problem
19:48:09Watusimotohave fun!
19:48:16raptori'll wait to do the last database dump until right before you can do the os reinstall..
19:49:59raptorwell, if you're not in bed when i come back, we could do the os reinstall then, too... then i'd have the whole evening to fix up the server just right

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