#bitfighter IRC Log

IRC Log for 2013-08-24

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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12:48:27 BFLogBot Miss Wormwood: What state do you live in? Calvin: Denial. Miss Wormwood: I don't suppose I can argue with that... 
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15:02:26 raptor ok, next on the list..
15:02:29 raptor backwards..
15:02:31 raptor !bugs
15:02:31 BFLogBot To enter a bug: http://tinyurl.com/bfnewbug -- To view all bugs: http://tinyurl.com/bfbugs
15:04:37 raptor kaen: should I attempt to synchronize the asteroid spawn client-side with a timer?
15:04:43 raptor (I really really really don't want to...)
16:16:05 raptor YoshiSmb: yes, I've compiled for android, but it doesn't run very well (no controls) and it crashes
16:17:24 YoshiSmb hhmmm, a unstable version and is not completed.
16:17:33 raptor probably will be that way for a long time
16:18:01 raptor because I don't have a good android device to test on, or the time to dedicate work on that port
16:18:09 YoshiSmb yep
16:19:42 BFLogBot Commit: 1bc48c625267 | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Change asteroid spawn indicator to be brighter green and render it more efficiently
16:40:59 YoshiSmb Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
16:47:57 BFLogBot Commit: a18f4c39d825 | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Use CLAMP
16:47:58 BFLogBot Commit: 39b225bab8ad | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Add font context for chat/server messages.  Try the same font for input and messages
16:52:01 YoshiSmb has joined
17:35:18 Little_Apple has joined
17:35:29 Little_Apple THE STARS ARE GONE
17:35:46 raptor hi
17:35:49 raptor which stars?
17:37:07 Little_Apple ALL OF THEM
17:37:35 Little_Apple http://bitfighter.org
17:38:07 raptor i see stars
17:41:04 Little_Apple http://i.imgur.com/3HwcHE3.png
17:41:07 raptor Little_Apple: thoughts on this chat font?:  http://imagebin.org/268681
17:41:22 raptor whoa
17:41:26 Little_Apple looksgood
17:41:29 Little_Apple NO STARS.
17:41:31 Little_Apple WHY.
17:41:53 raptor looks like you're in The Void
17:42:17 Little_Apple oh man.
17:42:39 raptor that was a creepy star trek episod
17:42:42 raptor e
17:43:11 Little_Apple tng?
17:43:16 raptor voyager
17:43:24 Little_Apple ah
17:43:26 raptor there was one tng one, too..
17:43:44 raptor i tried another browser - i see stars
17:44:41 Little_Apple must be my safari being a dingus.
17:44:47 Little_Apple firefox has stars
17:46:42 koda has joined
18:28:40 Little_Apple Quit (Quit: Page closed)
18:37:41 koda Quit (Quit: koda)
18:46:24 amgine1234567890 has joined
18:47:11 amgine1234567890 hello
18:47:20 amgine1234567890 im back from being gone
18:55:55 raptor hi
18:59:33 amgine1234567890 any new builds to test
18:59:41 amgine1234567890 my build may be 1  week old
18:59:57 raptor you can always get the latest build from the buildbot
18:59:59 raptor !latest
18:59:59 BFLogBot http://buildbot.bitfighter.org:8010/latest/
19:04:24 amgine1234567890 ok do you want me to test anything?
19:04:37 raptor nothing specific at the moment, no
19:04:42 raptor we're just polishing up things
19:06:12 amgine1234567890 i did find one bugi dont know if oyu saw it on the last build i had mazeracer was broken
19:06:28 raptor yes, that is fixed
19:06:30 raptor thanks
19:06:59 amgine1234567890 i also suggested a solution to the scorebaord problem if you saw that
19:07:26 raptor which problem?
19:07:37 raptor the scoreboard has been updated - you should look at it now
19:07:54 amgine1234567890 the to many players on a scorebaord problem
19:20:47 amgine1234567890 is the level editor coding in C++ or lua
19:20:58 amgine1234567890 im thinking about tyring to make my first plugin ever
19:21:11 raptor plugins are in Lua
19:22:55 amgine1234567890 i dont think theres a api for my plugin though
19:23:58 raptor kaen has written several, you might want to take a look at how he did them.  Knowledge of Lua is expected
19:24:16 raptor see here:  https://github.com/kaen/kaentools/
19:29:54 raptor brb
19:30:57 YoshiSmb : this place is so cold, i can't take it anymore, omg, i can't!
19:35:55 amgine1234567890 arg
19:47:43 amgine1234567890 i forget how do you conjoin poly walls
19:48:25 amgine1234567890 nevermind
19:53:01 amgine1234567890 i like how you finnaly did my sugestion of having a fixed point roatation
19:53:12 amgine1234567890 makes the old one not needed now ;)
19:55:19 Nothing_Much Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
19:56:03 Nothing_Much has joined
19:56:28 amgine1234567890 although i would adjust hte inputs for the commands sliltgly as they are messy
19:59:50 amgine1234567890 can i suggest a alternate commands for the rotate series they arnt as user friendly as they could be
20:03:40 raptor you can suggest - but we tested them a lot and the current ones seem to make the most sense
20:04:03 amgine1234567890 actully they make no sense im sorry
20:04:11 raptor heh
20:04:17 raptor no problem  :)
20:04:35 amgine1234567890 its very unuser friendly ill see if i can do better before i complain though ;)
20:10:49 amgine1234567890 ok here is what i think it should be
20:16:09 raptor ok kaen, I used the 'custom community' theme, which has been the easiest of all of them so far
20:16:22 amgine1234567890 ??
20:16:29 raptor I also installed a lightbox plugin for the pictures
20:18:02 amgine1234567890 ok here is what i think
20:19:28 amgine1234567890 rotate clockwise fixed is ctrl r counterclockwise is alt rotate amount is ctrl alt r
20:19:56 amgine1234567890 remove the roate arounbd 1,1 its not needed and makes the user interface to ocmplicated
20:20:04 amgine1234567890 if yhat makes sense
20:20:14 amgine1234567890 alt r
20:20:26 raptor some people still wanted rotate about 0,0
20:21:12 amgine1234567890 trust me its not user friendly you will never need it it makes the interface to hard to use and is uless when you get farth away from 0,0
20:21:17 raptor and we use shift+R because the shift key is used in other places to do an opposite effect.  we wanted to make it consistent
20:21:57 amgine1234567890 well ctrl is clockwise alt is counter clockwise and inpout amount is shift or ctrl plus alt
20:23:03 amgine1234567890 i garentee that removing the rotate around 1,1 is better as it makes the user interface harder to understand and is unreaiable because if you move away from 1,1 the object jumps very far and you have to scroll to find the item
20:23:42 amgine1234567890 but thats jsut my twocenseits your choice in the end
20:24:35 YoshiSmb Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
20:24:37 amgine1234567890 im sorry for my terrible typing its impossible to understand
20:24:57 amgine1234567890 i need to learn to type more proper
20:26:38 YoshiSmb has joined
20:28:05 amgine1234567890 wish there was away i could test it
20:28:49 amgine1234567890 raptor you therei might of found a bug
20:29:01 raptor hi
20:30:31 amgine1234567890 strange bug i played a level and it loaded but nothing loaded
20:30:38 amgine1234567890 it was jsut ships
20:30:50 amgine1234567890 il have to see if i can dupe it
20:45:04 amgine1234567890 add in the instructions that pressing f9 brings up the plugin panel (alo i think pressing it again hsould close it not pressing f8)
20:46:34 amgine1234567890 and remove or change these special keys are usually active to special commands are....  or something like that
20:47:06 amgine1234567890 is there somwhere where i can suggest ideas to polish BF link
20:49:04 amgine1234567890 *cough* deadchat *cough*
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20:57:54 raptor Quit ()
21:02:31 amgine1234567890 kaen r u afk
21:04:54 kaen hi amgine1234567890
21:05:02 kaen been afk all day but I'm here-ish now
21:05:29 YoshiSmb so afk all the day? man, what boring duty of begin afk
21:05:30 amgine1234567890 ok i see a few non user friendly problems for BF that could be polished
21:05:47 kaen http://beta.etherpad.org/p/bf_019_polish
21:05:53 kaen hehe
21:06:08 kaen if you can believe it, YoshiSmb, sometimes I work on things other than bitfighter :)
21:06:55 amgine1234567890 ;)
21:07:25 YoshiSmb ahh.
21:08:34 amgine1234567890 kaen i think the roate system needs to be fixed to be  ctrl+r is fixed rotate clockwise alt + r is fixed rotate counterclockwise and shift + r is rotate a amount remove  arbitrary rotate its uless and makes the interface hard to use
21:09:19 amgine1234567890 and its usless teh further away you get from 0,0 it becomes worse as you have to scroll very far to find the object
21:09:48 amgine1234567890 raptor is there a way to suggest changes for BF
21:09:52 amgine1234567890 er kaen
21:10:36 kaen http://beta.etherpad.org/p/bf_019_polish
21:10:39 kaen or
21:10:40 kaen !bugs
21:10:40 BFLogBot To enter a bug: http://tinyurl.com/bfnewbug -- To view all bugs: http://tinyurl.com/bfbugs
21:10:42 kaen or
21:10:44 kaen !ideas
21:10:44 BFLogBot To enter a feature request: http://tinyurl.com/bfnewfeature -- To view all feature requests: http://tinyurl.com/bffeatures
21:11:52 kaen amgine1234567890, rotate around origin is useful to make levels with rotational symmetry
21:12:12 kaen it rotates the objects correctly *and* puts them in the right spot
21:13:06 amgine1234567890 not really you can just copy paste and roate then place besides it doesnt always place it corectly and it beocmes innacurate away form 0,0
21:13:39 amgine1234567890 besides roatate amount does that =p
21:15:50 amgine1234567890 and you must C@P regardless
21:16:22 kaen anyway, we're keeping it :)
21:16:31 kaen I kind of sympathize about the key bindings though
21:17:17 amgine1234567890 question is moving a polywall over another part of a polywall and there being a outline and a incorrectly filled area normal?
21:17:41 kaen incorrectly filled?
21:17:49 kaen that happens if the geometry of the polywall is broken
21:18:12 kaen e.g. two points on top of each other
21:18:41 kaen the outline is normal for two overlapping polywalls
21:18:46 kaen but only in the editor
21:19:04 kaen also, the plugins I made that raptor linked to are kind of broken
21:21:55 amgine1234567890 http://i42.tinypic.com/2heavyq.png
21:22:00 amgine1234567890 jsut checking
21:22:39 amgine1234567890 check that
21:26:41 amgine1234567890 theres a probem the windows display becomes messed up when you scroll the box on a windows computer fixes when movment stops
21:29:04 kaen amgine1234567890, that polywall is "self-intersecting"
21:29:12 kaen (it has lines that cross)
21:29:32 kaen so the polywall is broken.
21:30:53 amgine1234567890 Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
21:54:31 YoshiSmb kaen are you there?
21:54:36 kaen yes
21:54:37 kaen hello.
21:55:59 YoshiSmb since im using the latest version (both: 018b and 019) in version 019, in editor, why does say: Upload to DB?
21:57:57 YoshiSmb in the editor menu?
22:00:03 YoshiSmb kaen?
22:00:16 kaen hehehe
22:00:23 kaen you have not seen the level DB yet?
22:00:33 YoshiSmb no.
22:00:37 kaen http://bitfighter.org/pleiades/levels/view/71
22:01:14 YoshiSmb oh, worked.
22:01:29 kaen I wrote it all myself ^^
22:01:58 YoshiSmb wow, how wonderfull, it's worked, i submited a map, can you see it?
22:02:02 kaen yes
22:02:59 kaen and I just downloaded it into my client :)
22:03:24 YoshiSmb my map?
22:03:31 kaen yes
22:03:36 BFBuildBot Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
22:04:08 YoshiSmb yay, now it's easy to find maps here.
22:04:42 kaen that was the idea
22:05:56 YoshiSmb do you like my map?
22:08:57 kaen yeah!
22:09:07 kaen it's a really good bitmatch map
22:10:59 YoshiSmb thanks!
22:11:34 YoshiSmb also, 019 is compatible with 018b stuff? (like bot's and maps)
22:12:21 Nothing_Much why wouldn't it? (hello everyone)
22:13:03 YoshiSmb hello.
22:13:37 kaen actually
22:13:39 Nothing_Much is 019 like a major, major change?
22:13:49 kaen we had to rewrite the stock bots
22:13:59 kaen maps per se should work fine
22:14:12 kaen but levelgens have also changed, and possibly broken
22:14:31 kaen though we did try to maintain some small amount of backwards compatibility
22:14:36 Nothing_Much levelgens? you mean custom maps?
22:14:45 kaen maps with lua scripts
22:15:12 kaen like
22:15:20 kaen bobdaduck wrote a levelgen where you swordfight
22:15:47 kaen I wrote one with a soft-body physics simulation of dough in outer space using resource items
22:15:57 kaen (second place in the last level contest :D)
22:16:19 kaen and, more sanely, watusimoto wrote a maze generator
22:17:22 kaen it's a matter of some philosophical division within the core community ...
22:17:26 Nothing_Much cool
22:17:48 kaen in 019 we took a leap and added ship:setHealth
22:18:06 kaen so levelgens can instakill/make you effectively invincible
22:18:14 kaen i.e. they are game-breaking
22:19:03 Nothing_Much game breaking?
22:19:08 kaen like
22:19:09 Nothing_Much isn't that a bad thing? o.o
22:19:14 kaen yeah.
22:19:24 kaen but I mean the counter argument is that you don't have to use them
22:19:35 kaen so it's more like level-breaking
22:19:37 kaen or
22:19:42 kaen potentially level-breaking
22:20:17 kaen because it should theoretically be possible to write a levelgen that contributes to a level's playability in the style of bitfighter
22:20:32 kaen however, this has been only rarely observed in the wild
22:20:38 YoshiSmb updates bitfighter 019 with 018b maps and bots.
22:20:52 kaen thread made some really cool maps that tastefully use levelgens
22:21:15 kaen that's actually the only example I can think of ...
22:21:39 YoshiSmb good bye.
22:21:42 kaen later
22:21:43 Nothing_Much bye
22:21:52 Nothing_Much levelgen..
22:21:53 Nothing_Much oh dear
22:22:03 Nothing_Much I should clarify that I'm not a developer or programmer :(
22:22:15 Nothing_Much because most of what you said I didn't understand, sorry]
22:22:42 kaen that's ok :)
22:22:54 kaen I'm mostly just rambling.
22:23:21 Nothing_Much and I haven't been keeping up on a lot of things.. ah okay
22:23:44 Nothing_Much how's the development been though??
22:23:45 Nothing_Much *?
22:24:06 kaen it's been happening in spurts
22:24:23 kaen in the last two weeks we finally entered "okay we should probably release soon" mode
22:24:35 kaen so we're in a semi-formal beta period
22:24:47 Nothing_Much hah, that's neat!
22:25:30 kaen we have a small team of ~six testers plus the three active devs and an etherpad to track the todo items :)
22:25:55 YoshiSmb Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
22:26:04 Nothing_Much nice
22:26:14 Nothing_Much etherpad?
22:27:07 kaen like an online notepad that everyone can edit
22:27:08 kaen like a
22:27:16 kaen oops, errant paste
22:27:20 kaen http://beta.etherpad.org/p/bf_019_polish
22:28:25 Nothing_Much whoa, is that a new website by you guys or is it like a well known place? (no offense)
22:29:07 kaen hehe, it's not by us
22:29:12 kaen it's really really cool though
22:29:28 kaen I think wat found it one day
22:30:29 Nothing_Much ncie
22:30:31 Nothing_Much *nice
22:53:19 raptor has joined
22:53:19 ChanServ sets mode +o
22:59:14 raptor I think...
22:59:23 raptor I think I was woken up by critters in the air ducts
22:59:37 raptor and now my  heart is pounding
23:01:13 raptor and now i wait to bait the mice with peanut butter and cyanide
23:04:58 Wuzzy Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
23:08:10 Wuzzy has joined
23:09:16 raptor oooo...  a 50/50 mix of dry cement powder and corn flour...
23:12:16 raptor that's ingenious!
23:19:37 kaen rofl
23:19:50 raptor oh hello
23:20:24 kaen critters in the air ducts, eh?
23:20:35 raptor yeah...
23:20:50 raptor feeding off the morsels the kids leave around, no doubt
23:32:45 Wuzzy Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
23:37:04 kaen I'm 99% done implementing Robot.new
23:37:17 raptor ooooo
23:37:25 kaen only thing is that after robot:removeFromGame(), there's a dangling pointer in the idle list
23:37:40 kaen even though unlinkFromIdleList is executed
23:37:58 kaen because for some reason, when it's executed, its list pointers are null
23:38:03 kaen but is still in the list
23:38:28 kaen so I discovered that, and took a really long nap to unpretzelize my brain
23:38:37 kaen and here I am.
23:39:04 raptor heh
23:39:27 kaen so the game crashes when traversing the idle list :/
23:40:02 kaen gdb needs like a full-immersion VR interface
23:40:31 kaen where you can run around the program's memory and visually inspect data
23:41:46 kaen I feel like if I could just explore the program's state like in a video game then this sort of thing would be easier
23:43:16 kaen that would be the best call graph visualizer ever.
23:43:24 raptor haha
23:46:32 raptor i wonder how much processing power is saved using the idlelist logic..
23:51:21 kaen that sounds like a good question
23:52:28 kaen my guess is not a lot, because the only time I could imagine it saves processing is for exploding objects and objects without idle() logic
23:52:44 kaen I can not think of an object which doesn't use idle() except for perhaps walls?
23:53:20 kaen maybe zones don't, since their logic is handled elsewhere
23:53:37 raptor hmm..
23:53:56 raptor it was a major change that sam686 did once.  he said it helped.
23:54:02 raptor but it sure added complexity..
23:54:22 kaen but the amount of those types of objects would probably be negligible compared to projectiles alone
23:54:26 kaen oh wow...
23:55:37 kaen I feel like adding a subsystem like that would justify some benchmarks
23:55:46 kaen or some profiling data demonstrating a bottleneck...
23:56:05 raptor i'll have to look at the logs..
23:57:03 kaen gridDB is one thing -- dynamic binning can often reduce processing by an order of magnitude
23:58:00 kaen but this idle list thing is something I've never heard of
23:59:31 raptor 45af6fc45f90?
23:59:59 raptor nope, not that one..

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These logs were automatically created by BFLogBot on irc.freenode.net.

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12:48:27	BFLogBot	Miss Wormwood: What state do you live in? Calvin: Denial. Miss Wormwood: I don't suppose I can argue with that...
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15:02:26	raptor	ok, next on the list..
15:02:29	raptor	backwards..
15:02:31	raptor	!bugs
15:02:31	BFLogBot	To enter a bug: http://tinyurl.com/bfnewbug -- To view all bugs: http://tinyurl.com/bfbugs
15:04:37	raptor	kaen: should I attempt to synchronize the asteroid spawn client-side with a timer?
15:04:43	raptor	(I really really really don't want to...)
16:16:05	raptor	YoshiSmb: yes, I've compiled for android, but it doesn't run very well (no controls) and it crashes
16:17:24	YoshiSmb	hhmmm, a unstable version and is not completed.
16:17:33	raptor	probably will be that way for a long time
16:18:01	raptor	because I don't have a good android device to test on, or the time to dedicate work on that port
16:18:09	YoshiSmb	yep
16:19:42		BFLogBot Commit: 1bc48c625267 \| Author: buckyballreaction \| Message: Change asteroid spawn indicator to be brighter green and render it more efficiently
16:40:59		YoshiSmb Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
16:47:57		BFLogBot Commit: a18f4c39d825 \| Author: buckyballreaction \| Message: Use CLAMP
16:47:58		BFLogBot Commit: 39b225bab8ad \| Author: buckyballreaction \| Message: Add font context for chat/server messages. Try the same font for input and messages
16:52:01		YoshiSmb has joined
17:35:18		Little_Apple has joined
17:35:29	Little_Apple	THE STARS ARE GONE
17:35:46	raptor	hi
17:35:49	raptor	which stars?
17:37:07	Little_Apple	ALL OF THEM
17:37:35	Little_Apple	http://bitfighter.org
17:38:07	raptor	i see stars
17:41:04	Little_Apple	http://i.imgur.com/3HwcHE3.png
17:41:07	raptor	Little_Apple: thoughts on this chat font?: http://imagebin.org/268681
17:41:22	raptor	whoa
17:41:26	Little_Apple	looksgood
17:41:29	Little_Apple	NO STARS.
17:41:31	Little_Apple	WHY.
17:41:53	raptor	looks like you're in The Void
17:42:17	Little_Apple	oh man.
17:42:39	raptor	that was a creepy star trek episod
17:42:42	raptor	e
17:43:11	Little_Apple	tng?
17:43:16	raptor	voyager
17:43:24	Little_Apple	ah
17:43:26	raptor	there was one tng one, too..
17:43:44	raptor	i tried another browser - i see stars
17:44:41	Little_Apple	must be my safari being a dingus.
17:44:47	Little_Apple	firefox has stars
17:46:42		koda has joined
18:28:40		Little_Apple Quit (Quit: Page closed)
18:37:41		koda Quit (Quit: koda)
18:46:24		amgine1234567890 has joined
18:47:11	amgine1234567890	hello
18:47:20	amgine1234567890	im back from being gone
18:55:55	raptor	hi
18:59:33	amgine1234567890	any new builds to test
18:59:41	amgine1234567890	my build may be 1 week old
18:59:57	raptor	you can always get the latest build from the buildbot
18:59:59	raptor	!latest
18:59:59	BFLogBot	http://buildbot.bitfighter.org:8010/latest/
19:04:24	amgine1234567890	ok do you want me to test anything?
19:04:37	raptor	nothing specific at the moment, no
19:04:42	raptor	we're just polishing up things
19:06:12	amgine1234567890	i did find one bugi dont know if oyu saw it on the last build i had mazeracer was broken
19:06:28	raptor	yes, that is fixed
19:06:30	raptor	thanks
19:06:59	amgine1234567890	i also suggested a solution to the scorebaord problem if you saw that
19:07:26	raptor	which problem?
19:07:37	raptor	the scoreboard has been updated - you should look at it now
19:07:54	amgine1234567890	the to many players on a scorebaord problem
19:20:47	amgine1234567890	is the level editor coding in C++ or lua
19:20:58	amgine1234567890	im thinking about tyring to make my first plugin ever
19:21:11	raptor	plugins are in Lua
19:22:55	amgine1234567890	i dont think theres a api for my plugin though
19:23:58	raptor	kaen has written several, you might want to take a look at how he did them. Knowledge of Lua is expected
19:24:16	raptor	see here: https://github.com/kaen/kaentools/
19:29:54	raptor	brb
19:30:57		YoshiSmb : this place is so cold, i can't take it anymore, omg, i can't!
19:35:55	amgine1234567890	arg
19:47:43	amgine1234567890	i forget how do you conjoin poly walls
19:48:25	amgine1234567890	nevermind
19:53:01	amgine1234567890	i like how you finnaly did my sugestion of having a fixed point roatation
19:53:12	amgine1234567890	makes the old one not needed now ;)
19:55:19		Nothing_Much Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
19:56:03		Nothing_Much has joined
19:56:28	amgine1234567890	although i would adjust hte inputs for the commands sliltgly as they are messy
19:59:50	amgine1234567890	can i suggest a alternate commands for the rotate series they arnt as user friendly as they could be
20:03:40	raptor	you can suggest - but we tested them a lot and the current ones seem to make the most sense
20:04:03	amgine1234567890	actully they make no sense im sorry
20:04:11	raptor	heh
20:04:17	raptor	no problem :)
20:04:35	amgine1234567890	its very unuser friendly ill see if i can do better before i complain though ;)
20:10:49	amgine1234567890	ok here is what i think it should be
20:16:09	raptor	ok kaen, I used the 'custom community' theme, which has been the easiest of all of them so far
20:16:22	amgine1234567890	??
20:16:29	raptor	I also installed a lightbox plugin for the pictures
20:18:02	amgine1234567890	ok here is what i think
20:19:28	amgine1234567890	rotate clockwise fixed is ctrl r counterclockwise is alt rotate amount is ctrl alt r
20:19:56	amgine1234567890	remove the roate arounbd 1,1 its not needed and makes the user interface to ocmplicated
20:20:04	amgine1234567890	if yhat makes sense
20:20:14	amgine1234567890	alt r
20:20:26	raptor	some people still wanted rotate about 0,0
20:21:12	amgine1234567890	trust me its not user friendly you will never need it it makes the interface to hard to use and is uless when you get farth away from 0,0
20:21:17	raptor	and we use shift+R because the shift key is used in other places to do an opposite effect. we wanted to make it consistent
20:21:57	amgine1234567890	well ctrl is clockwise alt is counter clockwise and inpout amount is shift or ctrl plus alt
20:23:03	amgine1234567890	i garentee that removing the rotate around 1,1 is better as it makes the user interface harder to understand and is unreaiable because if you move away from 1,1 the object jumps very far and you have to scroll to find the item
20:23:42	amgine1234567890	but thats jsut my twocenseits your choice in the end
20:24:35		YoshiSmb Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
20:24:37	amgine1234567890	im sorry for my terrible typing its impossible to understand
20:24:57	amgine1234567890	i need to learn to type more proper
20:26:38		YoshiSmb has joined
20:28:05	amgine1234567890	wish there was away i could test it
20:28:49	amgine1234567890	raptor you therei might of found a bug
20:29:01	raptor	hi
20:30:31	amgine1234567890	strange bug i played a level and it loaded but nothing loaded
20:30:38	amgine1234567890	it was jsut ships
20:30:50	amgine1234567890	il have to see if i can dupe it
20:45:04	amgine1234567890	add in the instructions that pressing f9 brings up the plugin panel (alo i think pressing it again hsould close it not pressing f8)
20:46:34	amgine1234567890	and remove or change these special keys are usually active to special commands are.... or something like that
20:47:06	amgine1234567890	is there somwhere where i can suggest ideas to polish BF link
20:49:04	amgine1234567890	cough deadchat cough
20:49:20		YoshiSmb has left #bitfighter
20:49:34		YoshiSmb has joined
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21:02:31	amgine1234567890	kaen r u afk
21:04:54	kaen	hi amgine1234567890
21:05:02	kaen	been afk all day but I'm here-ish now
21:05:29	YoshiSmb	so afk all the day? man, what boring duty of begin afk
21:05:30	amgine1234567890	ok i see a few non user friendly problems for BF that could be polished
21:05:47	kaen	http://beta.etherpad.org/p/bf_019_polish
21:05:53	kaen	hehe
21:06:08	kaen	if you can believe it, YoshiSmb, sometimes I work on things other than bitfighter :)
21:06:55	amgine1234567890	;)
21:07:25	YoshiSmb	ahh.
21:08:34	amgine1234567890	kaen i think the roate system needs to be fixed to be ctrl+r is fixed rotate clockwise alt + r is fixed rotate counterclockwise and shift + r is rotate a amount remove arbitrary rotate its uless and makes the interface hard to use
21:09:19	amgine1234567890	and its usless teh further away you get from 0,0 it becomes worse as you have to scroll very far to find the object
21:09:48	amgine1234567890	raptor is there a way to suggest changes for BF
21:09:52	amgine1234567890	er kaen
21:10:36	kaen	http://beta.etherpad.org/p/bf_019_polish
21:10:39	kaen	or
21:10:40	kaen	!bugs
21:10:40	BFLogBot	To enter a bug: http://tinyurl.com/bfnewbug -- To view all bugs: http://tinyurl.com/bfbugs
21:10:42	kaen	or
21:10:44	kaen	!ideas
21:10:44	BFLogBot	To enter a feature request: http://tinyurl.com/bfnewfeature -- To view all feature requests: http://tinyurl.com/bffeatures
21:11:52	kaen	amgine1234567890, rotate around origin is useful to make levels with rotational symmetry
21:12:12	kaen	it rotates the objects correctly and puts them in the right spot
21:13:06	amgine1234567890	not really you can just copy paste and roate then place besides it doesnt always place it corectly and it beocmes innacurate away form 0,0
21:13:39	amgine1234567890	besides roatate amount does that =p
21:15:50	amgine1234567890	and you must C@P regardless
21:16:22	kaen	anyway, we're keeping it :)
21:16:31	kaen	I kind of sympathize about the key bindings though
21:17:17	amgine1234567890	question is moving a polywall over another part of a polywall and there being a outline and a incorrectly filled area normal?
21:17:41	kaen	incorrectly filled?
21:17:49	kaen	that happens if the geometry of the polywall is broken
21:18:12	kaen	e.g. two points on top of each other
21:18:41	kaen	the outline is normal for two overlapping polywalls
21:18:46	kaen	but only in the editor
21:19:04	kaen	also, the plugins I made that raptor linked to are kind of broken
21:21:55	amgine1234567890	http://i42.tinypic.com/2heavyq.png
21:22:00	amgine1234567890	jsut checking
21:22:39	amgine1234567890	check that
21:26:41	amgine1234567890	theres a probem the windows display becomes messed up when you scroll the box on a windows computer fixes when movment stops
21:29:04	kaen	amgine1234567890, that polywall is "self-intersecting"
21:29:12	kaen	(it has lines that cross)
21:29:32	kaen	so the polywall is broken.
21:30:53		amgine1234567890 Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
21:54:31	YoshiSmb	kaen are you there?
21:54:36	kaen	yes
21:54:37	kaen	hello.
21:55:59	YoshiSmb	since im using the latest version (both: 018b and 019) in version 019, in editor, why does say: Upload to DB?
21:57:57	YoshiSmb	in the editor menu?
22:00:03	YoshiSmb	kaen?
22:00:16	kaen	hehehe
22:00:23	kaen	you have not seen the level DB yet?
22:00:33	YoshiSmb	no.
22:00:37	kaen	http://bitfighter.org/pleiades/levels/view/71
22:01:14	YoshiSmb	oh, worked.
22:01:29	kaen	I wrote it all myself ^^
22:01:58	YoshiSmb	wow, how wonderfull, it's worked, i submited a map, can you see it?
22:02:02	kaen	yes
22:02:59	kaen	and I just downloaded it into my client :)
22:03:24	YoshiSmb	my map?
22:03:31	kaen	yes
22:03:36		BFBuildBot Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
22:04:08	YoshiSmb	yay, now it's easy to find maps here.
22:04:42	kaen	that was the idea
22:05:56	YoshiSmb	do you like my map?
22:08:57	kaen	yeah!
22:09:07	kaen	it's a really good bitmatch map
22:10:59	YoshiSmb	thanks!
22:11:34	YoshiSmb	also, 019 is compatible with 018b stuff? (like bot's and maps)
22:12:21	Nothing_Much	why wouldn't it? (hello everyone)
22:13:03	YoshiSmb	hello.
22:13:37	kaen	actually
22:13:39	Nothing_Much	is 019 like a major, major change?
22:13:49	kaen	we had to rewrite the stock bots
22:13:59	kaen	maps per se should work fine
22:14:12	kaen	but levelgens have also changed, and possibly broken
22:14:31	kaen	though we did try to maintain some small amount of backwards compatibility
22:14:36	Nothing_Much	levelgens? you mean custom maps?
22:14:45	kaen	maps with lua scripts
22:15:12	kaen	like
22:15:20	kaen	bobdaduck wrote a levelgen where you swordfight
22:15:47	kaen	I wrote one with a soft-body physics simulation of dough in outer space using resource items
22:15:57	kaen	(second place in the last level contest :D)
22:16:19	kaen	and, more sanely, watusimoto wrote a maze generator
22:17:22	kaen	it's a matter of some philosophical division within the core community ...
22:17:26	Nothing_Much	cool
22:17:48	kaen	in 019 we took a leap and added ship:setHealth
22:18:06	kaen	so levelgens can instakill/make you effectively invincible
22:18:14	kaen	i.e. they are game-breaking
22:19:03	Nothing_Much	game breaking?
22:19:08	kaen	like
22:19:09	Nothing_Much	isn't that a bad thing? o.o
22:19:14	kaen	yeah.
22:19:24	kaen	but I mean the counter argument is that you don't have to use them
22:19:35	kaen	so it's more like level-breaking
22:19:37	kaen	or
22:19:42	kaen	potentially level-breaking
22:20:17	kaen	because it should theoretically be possible to write a levelgen that contributes to a level's playability in the style of bitfighter
22:20:32	kaen	however, this has been only rarely observed in the wild
22:20:38		YoshiSmb updates bitfighter 019 with 018b maps and bots.
22:20:52	kaen	thread made some really cool maps that tastefully use levelgens
22:21:15	kaen	that's actually the only example I can think of ...
22:21:39	YoshiSmb	good bye.
22:21:42	kaen	later
22:21:43	Nothing_Much	bye
22:21:52	Nothing_Much	levelgen..
22:21:53	Nothing_Much	oh dear
22:22:03	Nothing_Much	I should clarify that I'm not a developer or programmer :(
22:22:15	Nothing_Much	because most of what you said I didn't understand, sorry]
22:22:42	kaen	that's ok :)
22:22:54	kaen	I'm mostly just rambling.
22:23:21	Nothing_Much	and I haven't been keeping up on a lot of things.. ah okay
22:23:44	Nothing_Much	how's the development been though??
22:23:45	Nothing_Much	*?
22:24:06	kaen	it's been happening in spurts
22:24:23	kaen	in the last two weeks we finally entered "okay we should probably release soon" mode
22:24:35	kaen	so we're in a semi-formal beta period
22:24:47	Nothing_Much	hah, that's neat!
22:25:30	kaen	we have a small team of ~six testers plus the three active devs and an etherpad to track the todo items :)
22:25:55		YoshiSmb Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
22:26:04	Nothing_Much	nice
22:26:14	Nothing_Much	etherpad?
22:27:07	kaen	like an online notepad that everyone can edit
22:27:08	kaen	like a
22:27:16	kaen	oops, errant paste
22:27:20	kaen	http://beta.etherpad.org/p/bf_019_polish
22:28:25	Nothing_Much	whoa, is that a new website by you guys or is it like a well known place? (no offense)
22:29:07	kaen	hehe, it's not by us
22:29:12	kaen	it's really really cool though
22:29:28	kaen	I think wat found it one day
22:30:29	Nothing_Much	ncie
22:30:31	Nothing_Much	*nice
22:53:19		raptor has joined
22:53:19		ChanServ sets mode +o
22:59:14	raptor	I think...
22:59:23	raptor	I think I was woken up by critters in the air ducts
22:59:37	raptor	and now my heart is pounding
23:01:13	raptor	and now i wait to bait the mice with peanut butter and cyanide
23:04:58		Wuzzy Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
23:08:10		Wuzzy has joined
23:09:16	raptor	oooo... a 50/50 mix of dry cement powder and corn flour...
23:12:16	raptor	that's ingenious!
23:19:37	kaen	rofl
23:19:50	raptor	oh hello
23:20:24	kaen	critters in the air ducts, eh?
23:20:35	raptor	yeah...
23:20:50	raptor	feeding off the morsels the kids leave around, no doubt
23:32:45		Wuzzy Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
23:37:04	kaen	I'm 99% done implementing Robot.new
23:37:17	raptor	ooooo
23:37:25	kaen	only thing is that after robot:removeFromGame(), there's a dangling pointer in the idle list
23:37:40	kaen	even though unlinkFromIdleList is executed
23:37:58	kaen	because for some reason, when it's executed, its list pointers are null
23:38:03	kaen	but is still in the list
23:38:28	kaen	so I discovered that, and took a really long nap to unpretzelize my brain
23:38:37	kaen	and here I am.
23:39:04	raptor	heh
23:39:27	kaen	so the game crashes when traversing the idle list :/
23:40:02	kaen	gdb needs like a full-immersion VR interface
23:40:31	kaen	where you can run around the program's memory and visually inspect data
23:41:46	kaen	I feel like if I could just explore the program's state like in a video game then this sort of thing would be easier
23:43:16	kaen	that would be the best call graph visualizer ever.
23:43:24	raptor	haha
23:46:32	raptor	i wonder how much processing power is saved using the idlelist logic..
23:51:21	kaen	that sounds like a good question
23:52:28	kaen	my guess is not a lot, because the only time I could imagine it saves processing is for exploding objects and objects without idle() logic
23:52:44	kaen	I can not think of an object which doesn't use idle() except for perhaps walls?
23:53:20	kaen	maybe zones don't, since their logic is handled elsewhere
23:53:37	raptor	hmm..
23:53:56	raptor	it was a major change that sam686 did once. he said it helped.
23:54:02	raptor	but it sure added complexity..
23:54:22	kaen	but the amount of those types of objects would probably be negligible compared to projectiles alone
23:54:26	kaen	oh wow...
23:55:37	kaen	I feel like adding a subsystem like that would justify some benchmarks
23:55:46	kaen	or some profiling data demonstrating a bottleneck...
23:56:05	raptor	i'll have to look at the logs..
23:57:03	kaen	gridDB is one thing -- dynamic binning can often reduce processing by an order of magnitude
23:58:00	kaen	but this idle list thing is something I've never heard of
23:59:31	raptor	45af6fc45f90?
23:59:59	raptor	nope, not that one..