Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
| 00:12:15 | | Watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 01:28:15 | | watusimoto has joined |
| 01:28:15 | | ChanServ sets mode +o |
| 01:45:33 | | Watusimoto_ has joined |
| 02:04:46 | | koda has joined |
| 03:20:50 | | kaen Quit (Read error: Operation timed out) |
| 03:21:22 | | kaen has joined |
| 03:38:55 | | Watusimoto_ Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 04:07:38 | | Platskies has joined |
| 07:29:19 | | Platskies Quit (Quit: Sleep time…) |
| 07:29:55 | | Platskies has joined |
| 08:02:45 | | Canseco has joined |
| 08:03:11 | Canseco | good morning |
| 08:03:51 | | raptor has joined |
| 08:03:51 | | ChanServ sets mode +o |
| 08:03:59 | raptor | good day! |
| 08:04:03 | raptor | hi Canseco |
| 08:06:03 | raptor | and welcome |
| 08:07:18 | Canseco | The port to OpenPandora was easy, but i needed to use a wrapper to convert OpenGL to OpenGL ES |
| 08:08:58 | raptor | ok |
| 08:09:10 | raptor | i saw the 'glshim' |
| 08:09:26 | Canseco | trying to found link to source, just a sec |
| 08:09:48 | raptor | I actually try to support GLES in the code base |
| 08:10:00 | raptor | a few things were broken, though, like the in-game console |
| 08:11:04 | Canseco | good to know, it will be more easy to maintain for me |
| 08:11:23 | raptor | so the next release should have better GLES support |
| 08:11:57 | raptor | I'm curious (and I don't know much about pandora) - did you have to change anything to get the controls to work? |
| 08:12:11 | Canseco | https://github.com/lunixbochs/glshim |
| 08:14:08 | Canseco | just changed nubs order, and configured keys, but i like to use external mouse |
| 08:14:21 | raptor | ah ok |
| 08:15:55 | raptor | does pandora support SDL2? |
| 08:16:12 | | Platskies Quit (Quit: Gotta go) |
| 08:16:17 | Canseco | since yesterday, when new codeblocks was released on repo |
| 08:16:43 | raptor | oh good! |
| 08:17:07 | raptor | SDL2 will be needed for GLES |
| 08:38:07 | raptor | do the dual axes controls still work for the game? |
| 08:39:17 | Nothing_Much | I'd like that on a pandora when I get one :) |
| 08:42:04 | Canseco | it's configured with dpad and right nub, only problem is not be able to use Control for binding |
| 08:42:10 | Canseco | fire |
| 08:48:15 | watusimoto | hey, canseco! |
| 08:48:40 | watusimoto | I've been trying to figure out how to contact you |
| 08:48:52 | watusimoto | so glad you stopped by |
| 08:49:59 | Canseco | i try to do it on every "port" i do, hope you can include a link on your homepage |
| 08:50:20 | watusimoto | we can probably find a way to link it :-) |
| 08:50:44 | Canseco | if you want i can send tar.gz with sources, configs, etc |
| 08:50:51 | watusimoto | what I mostly wanted to know, is what we can do to make future support easier |
| 08:51:54 | watusimoto | which probably depends somewhat on what raptor already asked, which is how much code modification you needed to do |
| 08:52:07 | Canseco | migrate to SDL2 and support GLES, ;) |
| 08:52:15 | watusimoto | (if he actually asked that) |
| 08:52:30 | watusimoto | (if he actually asked that) |
| 08:52:56 | Canseco | no need to modify code, just compiled with glshim, GL to GLES wrapper |
| 08:52:57 | raptor | done! |
| 08:53:00 | raptor | almost... |
| 08:53:08 | watusimoto | excellent |
| 08:53:14 | raptor | the one part that's giving me grief with porting to GLES is oglconsole |
| 08:53:24 | raptor | been working all week on it |
| 08:53:35 | watusimoto | is the pandora a good platform for bitfighter? |
| 08:53:52 | watusimoto | (I've seen the hardware, but never really worked with it) |
| 08:54:08 | raptor | watusimoto: would it be bad if I just merged/cleaned-up oglconsole with Console.cpp? I could use font-stash, our own render methods, etc.. |
| 08:55:20 | watusimoto | raptor: is Console.cpp our oglconsole wrapper? |
| 08:55:40 | watusimoto | if so, merging would be fine; probably a necessary step on our plan to reform it |
| 08:56:05 | raptor | yes it is |
| 08:56:57 | raptor | note that the 'modularity' of it will be lost, in favor of code readability and performance... :) |
| 08:59:40 | watusimoto | well, the modulartiy has already become somewhat of an act of fiction |
| 09:00:02 | raptor | heh, true |
| 09:04:52 | Canseco | I'm too biased to say if OpenPandora is a good plattform, just see for yourself |
| 09:04:55 | Canseco | http://pandoralive.info/?p=1867 |
| 09:09:39 | watusimoto | I meant only does the game play well on Pandora -- i.e. is the game a good fit for the platform (I'll take it as a given the platform itself is nice :-) |
| 09:12:22 | | bobdaduck has joined |
| 09:13:26 | bobdaduck | the LAST server |
| 09:15:36 | raptor | wow! we only have one server up! |
| 09:15:54 | watusimoto | weird... usually there's several |
| 09:16:35 | bobdaduck | Who is the new guy? |
| 09:17:50 | Nothing_Much | bobdaduck, He's the guy that ported to the Pandora :) |
| 09:17:59 | bobdaduck | oooh |
| 09:18:02 | bobdaduck | cool! |
| 09:18:30 | Nothing_Much | dual analog controls need some work though, according to him |
| 09:18:35 | bobdaduck | So he's like, magic, right? |
| 09:18:37 | raptor | back soon |
| 09:18:41 | | raptor Quit () |
| 09:18:49 | Nothing_Much | In non-technical terms, yes |
| 09:19:56 | bobdaduck | I love magic tricks! |
| 09:20:11 | watusimoto | it's a neat bit of hardware |
| 09:20:38 | Nothing_Much | though it's a little outdated, it does have a touchscreen and is open source hardware |
| 09:21:08 | Nothing_Much | look at those buttons! |
| 09:21:25 | Nothing_Much | http://open-pandora.org/ |
| 09:30:15 | watusimoto | bitfighter runs at 800x600; the pandora is 800x480 |
| 09:40:20 | kaen | morning all |
| 09:40:26 | watusimoto | hi |
| 09:40:46 | | raptor has joined |
| 09:40:46 | | ChanServ sets mode +o |
| 09:41:16 | bobdaduck | morning, gentlekaen |
| 09:47:28 | Nothing_Much | we got a new player, come join! |
| 09:53:47 | | Canseco Quit (Quit: Leaving) |
| 10:01:08 | raptor | maybe seeker needs a slightly tighter turning radius |
| 10:01:30 | watusimoto | or maybe a higher fire rate |
| 10:01:57 | watusimoto | as seekers are too awesome to not be used more |
| 10:02:59 | watusimoto | we need to look again at kaen's analysis of weapon strength and try to even things out a bit, accounting for various non-numerical advantages/disadvantes of each weapon type |
| 10:03:15 | raptor | well, i did a lot of work on evening them out already |
| 10:03:21 | watusimoto | should probably do that before 019 |
| 10:03:23 | raptor | they just need to be tested |
| 10:03:27 | watusimoto | ah, ok |
| 10:03:34 | raptor | although i think seeker still needs a little improvement |
| 10:03:50 | watusimoto | your judgement is usally good in these things |
| 10:04:00 | watusimoto | (maybe in other things as well :-) |
| 10:05:31 | raptor | maybe... |
| 10:05:38 | raptor | but yeah, seeker need to be used |
| 10:06:12 | bobdaduck | Your fix for seeker was to increase its damage |
| 10:06:23 | watusimoto | maybe it should penetrate shields |
| 10:06:28 | bobdaduck | ...but you can still only fire 3 before you run out of energy and become defenseless and your opponent kills you |
| 10:06:33 | bobdaduck | NO |
| 10:06:37 | bobdaduck | NO ROCK PAPER SCISSORS |
| 10:06:39 | watusimoto | because it's currently so easy to defend against |
| 10:06:39 | raptor | reducing shield bounce code will reduce complexity... |
| 10:07:26 | watusimoto | though it works great, complexity or no |
| 10:08:02 | watusimoto | maybe it can "mirv" -- split into 3 parallel seekers at some point |
| 10:08:17 | bobdaduck | I will argue strongly against making anything penetrate shields |
| 10:08:27 | watusimoto | I know you will, though I don't know why |
| 10:08:37 | bobdaduck | because pokemon |
| 10:08:47 | watusimoto | shields are way overpowered |
| 10:08:55 | watusimoto | I think everyone agrees |
| 10:09:05 | watusimoto | and that crowds out our other modules |
| 10:09:21 | bobdaduck | no mostly just all the other modules suck. |
| 10:09:40 | watusimoto | if seekers penetrated shields, it would make seekers more valuable where other weapons fail |
| 10:09:58 | watusimoto | so you'd have to dodge, outrun, or shoot them down |
| 10:09:58 | bobdaduck | ...Well it would make the game harder on new players who wouldn't know that. |
| 10:10:16 | watusimoto | not just wait until its about to hit you and flip shields on for a second to turn the seeker back on the shooter |
| 10:10:24 | watusimoto | that's a really powerful thing |
| 10:11:00 | watusimoto | or maybe they could "stick" on shields for a few seconds, to force the shielder to use more energy against them |
| 10:11:21 | bobdaduck | Or maybe you could just make seekers not take a full third of your energy to use. |
| 10:11:24 | bobdaduck | That would do it too. |
| 10:11:25 | watusimoto | our bounce back still aimed at the target |
| 10:12:06 | watusimoto | actually, that would be pretty easy to try |
| 10:12:19 | watusimoto | I think |
| 10:12:27 | bobdaduck | The problem with seekers isn't that they're hard to use or easy to defend against or whatever |
| 10:12:44 | bobdaduck | the problem is if you shoot a single seeker, your opponent immediately has a huge energy advantage over you |
| 10:13:18 | bobdaduck | And you can only fire three total, so if the opponent dodges or shoots or blocks or anything, you just lose the fight. The end. |
| 10:13:22 | watusimoto | well, that's one problem, perhaps, but if they don't kill anything, and come right back at you, they're not that powerful |
| 10:13:54 | bobdaduck | Same argument could be used for anything |
| 10:14:05 | watusimoto | if they penetrated shields, the 1/3 energy might be worth it; only bouncers come right back at you |
| 10:14:09 | watusimoto | other shots don't |
| 10:14:36 | bobdaduck | Eh, no, it wouldn't be. |
| 10:15:04 | bobdaduck | Because now that you've hit them for the tiny amount of damage seekers do (assuming you hit them, because like, seekers can't get through phasers) they can just shoot you and kill you |
| 10:15:04 | raptor | fyi, i made shields use more energy for 019 |
| 10:15:07 | watusimoto | it seems seekers are too easily defelcted; even if they used 0 energy they might not be useful |
| 10:15:31 | watusimoto | here's an idea |
| 10:15:50 | watusimoto | what if seekers cost 0 energy, but you had a limited number that you could refill by flying through a loadout zone |
| 10:15:59 | raptor | complex |
| 10:16:01 | bobdaduck | more complexity |
| 10:16:11 | bobdaduck | and not a lot of actualy "making the game better" |
| 10:16:25 | watusimoto | you'd get your energy free seekers that way |
| 10:16:35 | raptor | i already reduced energy of seekers |
| 10:16:39 | raptor | and made them more powerful |
| 10:16:53 | watusimoto | we just need to make them penetrate shiedls and we'er good |
| 10:16:59 | raptor | hmm... |
| 10:17:02 | watusimoto | maybe even 50% damage or something |
| 10:17:03 | raptor | i'm not sure |
| 10:18:25 | bobdaduck | As long as you're discussing novel ways to maybe-buff seekers, I'll throw mine in here |
| 10:19:00 | bobdaduck | Make it so seekers explode. They don't need to do knockback, but area damage would make them dangerous even if you shoot them down or dodge them or anything |
| 10:19:04 | raptor | i think it'd like to try to improve seeker before we nerf shields |
| 10:19:16 | kaen | I think the best way to nerf shield is make it consume energy when taking damage (or increase that rate if it already does that) |
| 10:20:02 | watusimoto | what if mines penetrated shields? |
| 10:20:16 | bobdaduck | WHAT IF |
| 10:20:18 | raptor | mines always penetrate my shields... because i never see them |
| 10:20:20 | bobdaduck | SHIELDS PENETRATED SHIELDS |
| 10:20:46 | watusimoto | I just keep my shields on |
| 10:20:57 | watusimoto | since I rarely live longer than about 20 seconds, this usually works |
| 10:21:04 | kaen | hehe |
| 10:21:10 | raptor | + 5 seconds waiting on spawn... |
| 10:21:18 | watusimoto | old timer! |
| 10:21:31 | kaen | I've gotten to the point where I leave them always off and rely on reflexes to active them (it?) at the right moment |
| 10:21:55 | raptor | after you mentally take into account the lag, of course... :) |
| 10:22:06 | kaen | umm, I can't do that yet @_@ |
| 10:22:13 | kaen | so my system is not... |
| 10:22:15 | kaen | bulletproof |
| 10:22:43 | | Quartz has joined |
| 10:22:47 | raptor | add in the time it takes for electrical impluses light -> eye -> brain -> fingers |
| 10:23:09 | watusimoto | and the signal to travel from joystick to computer via wire |
| 10:23:38 | raptor | and any delay in the event sytem |
| 10:23:40 | raptor | *system |
| 10:24:44 | kaen | it's easier to get a feel for it than it is to calculate |
| 10:25:36 | watusimoto | art, not science |
| 10:25:50 | watusimoto | ok, gotta run... |
| 10:25:53 | watusimoto | more later |
| 10:25:54 | raptor | skill, not... still |
| 10:25:59 | raptor | skill |
| 10:26:01 | raptor | bah |
| 10:26:03 | raptor | later |
| 10:28:53 | Quartz | So did this guy seriously just suggest that Seekers should penetrate shields |
| 10:29:18 | raptor | yes... I... I think I'd like to try other avenues first |
| 10:29:29 | Quartz | You don't say. |
| 10:30:10 | | watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 10:30:32 | Quartz | *Chat Log tiem!* |
| 10:34:13 | Quartz | [10:15:04] <raptor> fyi, i made shields use more energy for 019 |
| 10:34:16 | Quartz | gj @raptor |
| 10:34:21 | raptor | :) |
| 10:34:40 | raptor | not a huge amount, just like 20-30% more, I think (it was a while ago) |
| 10:35:26 | Quartz | yeah |
| 10:35:29 | Quartz | [10:19:04] <raptor> i think it'd like to try to improve seeker before we nerf shields [10:19:16] <kaen> I think the best way to nerf shield is make it consume energy when taking damage (or increase that rate if it already does that) |
| 10:35:35 | Quartz | again, nailing it. thanks guys |
| 10:37:01 | Quartz | Well. That was an ... interesting read. |
| 10:37:36 | Quartz | Shields ARE overpowered, but making them specifically weaker, or worse yet useless, against specific weapons is a horrible idea. |
| 10:37:57 | Quartz | As bobdaduck said, rock-paper-scissors mechanics aren't in the game as of yet and as such we should keep it that way. |
| 10:38:11 | bobdaduck | no they already are |
| 10:38:11 | Quartz | Furthermore, exceptions just confuse newbies. |
| 10:38:19 | Quartz | Sensor vs. Cloak? |
| 10:38:20 | bobdaduck | bouncer does like more damage against armor. |
| 10:38:26 | Quartz | ugh |
| 10:38:36 | Quartz | Randumb. |
| 10:39:32 | bobdaduck | Useless weapon is specifically better against a useless module |
| 10:39:41 | Quartz | Yeah that sums it up. xD |
| 10:39:46 | raptor | that should probably be removed, now that bouncer is considerablly more... bouncer-like |
| 10:40:01 | raptor | also armor has been improved, too! |
| 10:40:10 | Quartz | Looking forward to that one. |
| 10:40:27 | Quartz | The "knocked all around hell" is what made Armor particularly useless. |
| 10:41:04 | raptor | yeah, now it's the opposite.. i know this will make the 'cannon' levels not as fun... |
| 10:41:24 | bobdaduck | It still works somehow |
| 10:41:48 | bobdaduck | I forget how |
| 10:42:00 | bobdaduck | maybe it was spybug explosions or just pulse or something |
| 10:42:13 | raptor | hmmm... |
| 10:42:32 | raptor | so the 'slippiness' is still there, so if you can get up to speed it'll still be part of it |
| 10:42:39 | Quartz | Real gameplay > novelties though |
| 10:42:46 | bobdaduck | yeah |
| 10:42:49 | raptor | but explosions are absorbed more, so it's harder to get up to speed |
| 10:43:00 | Quartz | And this is coming from the two idiots most responsible for dungeons xD |
| 10:43:05 | raptor | heh |
| 10:43:20 | bobdaduck | heh |
| 10:43:22 | Quartz | heh |
| 10:43:52 | raptor | maybe seekers should have a faster fire-rate, but do less damage? |
| 10:44:32 | bobdaduck | Maybe seekers should just not leave you super vulnerable for choosing to have them in your loadout |
| 10:44:53 | Quartz | A hail of Seekers would indeed make them much more ... viable |
| 10:45:15 | raptor | bobdaduck: maybe you should say why? |
| 10:45:26 | bobdaduck | because energy! |
| 10:45:29 | raptor | ah yes |
| 10:45:33 | Quartz | Because no matter what way you cut it; although wat's idea was idiotic, you have to admit his point about "raising shield for .3 seconds to counter seekers" is a valid one. |
| 10:45:39 | raptor | i already reduced energy... |
| 10:45:41 | | koda Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 10:45:42 | raptor | hmmm |
| 10:45:49 | bobdaduck | Yeah they're probably already way better in 019 |
| 10:46:05 | Quartz | I *do* think you should up the fire rate if you haven't. |
| 10:46:10 | raptor | better != viable |
| 10:46:15 | raptor | i want them viable.. |
| 10:46:50 | bobdaduck | I think that with the changes to triple and armor and all the everything in 019 |
| 10:47:07 | bobdaduck | its completely up in the air what's currently in the future viable. |
| 10:47:41 | raptor | kaen: are you for removing the bouncer does more damage to armor? |
| 10:47:50 | raptor | bouncer-does-more-damage-to-armor |
| 10:49:07 | bobdaduck | I think bouncer is still a bit weak |
| 10:49:11 | bobdaduck | but eh I guess we'll see |
| 10:49:36 | Quartz | Doesn't mean we shouldn't get rid of that half-wit mechanic in the meantime. |
| 10:49:52 | kaen | uh yeah nuke it |
| 10:50:04 | bobdaduck | because it will confuse new players, if nothing else. |
| 10:50:16 | Quartz | ^ |
| 10:50:23 | bobdaduck | Or rather, it won't confuse them, it will just give an advantage to everyone who knows about the code. |
| 10:50:36 | kaen | I'm really on board with preventing rock paper scissors |
| 10:50:37 | Quartz | Heh yeah truly. |
| 10:50:44 | Quartz | kaen is the best |
| 10:50:44 | raptor | ok then |
| 10:50:45 | Quartz | have a cookie |
| 10:52:48 | kaen | so, another thing is that we really have two tiers of weapons |
| 10:52:57 | kaen | the repeating weapons, and the "missile" weapons |
| 10:53:37 | bobdaduck | and mines. |
| 10:53:37 | kaen | and I think we should balance them within their tiers, because you really shouldn't be using seeker (or burst, or mine) as a main weapon |
| 10:53:52 | kaen | mines are zero-speed missiles :P |
| 10:53:57 | bobdaduck | lol okay |
| 10:54:04 | kaen | without timers... |
| 10:54:09 | | BFLogBot Commit: b491ddd1e2a0 | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Remove paper and rock (bouncer advantage on armor) |
| 10:54:09 | bobdaduck | I suppose I understand that because I can levelgen them velocity |
| 10:54:12 | kaen | uh anyway, it will simplify balancing |
| 10:54:20 | Quartz | Fair point. |
| 10:54:30 | Quartz | And right now, Burst >>>>>>> Seeker |
| 10:54:41 | kaen | burst even better in 019 since it explodes on contact |
| 10:54:44 | bobdaduck | How do you balance something "within its tier"? |
| 10:54:45 | raptor | bursts uses about twice the energy in 019 |
| 10:54:50 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 10:54:52 | kaen | it's actually my new favorite weapon in 019 |
| 10:54:55 | Quartz | Miiiice |
| 10:55:00 | Quartz | *Nice |
| 10:55:01 | bobdaduck | MICE |
| 10:55:02 | Quartz | lmao |
| 10:55:04 | Quartz | MICE! |
| 10:55:06 | kaen | like, swooping in on a cluster of s_bots and just driver-by bursting them |
| 10:55:45 | kaen | bobdaduck, so, we should make phaser/triple/bouncer all viable as main weapons |
| 10:56:01 | Quartz | mmmm |
| 10:56:10 | Quartz | true dat |
| 10:56:10 | kaen | and seeker, burst, mine all useful as situational area-of-effect weapons |
| 10:56:10 | Quartz | I tire of Phaser being the main weapon 100% of the time |
| 10:56:28 | bobdaduck | I suppose its a viable development philosophy |
| 10:56:31 | kaen | and the interesting choice will be in the damage and energy curves |
| 10:56:43 | kaen | between the weapons in each respective tier |
| 10:56:46 | bobdaduck | I was going more with "phaser is the main weapon, and everything else is personal style" |
| 10:56:53 | Quartz | Yeahhhh |
| 10:56:55 | Quartz | Your opinion sucks. |
| 10:56:58 | Quartz | xD |
| 10:56:58 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 10:57:14 | Quartz | it's great because there's no one else I would say that to lmao. ahh the joys of being good friends |
| 10:57:30 | Quartz | Umm but on a serious note. |
| 10:57:40 | kaen | so, thoughts on my tiers idea? |
| 10:57:42 | Nothing_Much | kaen or raptor, would a slightly modified version of bf exist to help the port for the pandora? or will the screen size be alright for it? |
| 10:57:51 | Quartz | While your opinion is valid, seriously, wouldn't more variation be much more interesting? |
| 10:58:01 | raptor | Nothing_Much: the screen scales downward just fine |
| 10:58:06 | kaen | well, my system has structured variation |
| 10:58:09 | Quartz | Your tiers idea is certainly a good way of picking apart game balance and analyzing it. |
| 10:58:11 | kaen | variation within bounds |
| 10:58:19 | Quartz | Yeah, exactly. |
| 10:58:39 | bobdaduck | the tiers idea would work just fine and give the game more "structure" I suppose, were we to stick with it as a development philosophy. Its not how I personally would prefer it though. |
| 10:58:49 | raptor | oh seeker stats: 700ms delay, 1/5 energy, 1/3 damage |
| 10:58:53 | raptor | for 019 |
| 10:59:08 | raptor | it used to be 700, 1/3, 1/4 |
| 10:59:16 | Quartz | Better but still hella underpowered |
| 10:59:22 | Nothing_Much | raptor, ah that's good |
| 10:59:29 | Quartz | But I doubt anyone wants to radically change anything for 019 :\ |
| 10:59:32 | Quartz | Or ever ... sigh |
| 10:59:36 | bobdaduck | rofl |
| 10:59:48 | raptor | well, seeker is used so little, that we can do radical changes |
| 11:00:04 | raptor | maybe 400, 1/10, 1/5 ? |
| 11:00:10 | Quartz | Suffice to say, my opinion is that your idea to make Seeker more of a volley of shots is great |
| 11:00:29 | kaen | yeah, me too |
| 11:01:07 | raptor | we could do other things, like remove the seeker-seeker collision |
| 11:01:20 | bobdaduck | make seeker like a triple-shot |
| 11:01:29 | bobdaduck | lul |
| 11:01:29 | Quartz | oh lawd xD |
| 11:01:30 | raptor | or acquiring the shooter as target... |
| 11:01:41 | kaen | ^ this one makes like no sense |
| 11:01:44 | bobdaduck | What about my idea of making it an explosive weapon? |
| 11:01:55 | kaen | but I do like playing seeker-ball |
| 11:02:11 | Quartz | it should blow up it's true |
| 11:02:11 | raptor | yes, making it a damageArea weapon |
| 11:02:13 | kaen | I say yes to seeker AOE |
| 11:02:25 | raptor | hmm... maybe 1/2 radius of burst? |
| 11:02:28 | | Canseco has joined |
| 11:02:53 | Quartz | or full radius, but no knockback. that's me though |
| 11:02:58 | bobdaduck | I think full radius but no knockback |
| 11:03:19 | Quartz | Because while Burst and Seeker should be comparable, they certainly shouldn't function the same way |
| 11:03:20 | bobdaduck | What if |
| 11:03:23 | bobdaduck | WHAT IF |
| 11:03:25 | kaen | I think 1/2 radius no KB |
| 11:03:29 | bobdaduck | IT EXPLODED IN A CONE |
| 11:03:31 | Quartz | WHAT IF MINES PENETRATED YOUR MOME |
| 11:03:35 | bobdaduck | INSTEAD OF CIRCLE |
| 11:04:04 | bobdaduck | It should totally explode in a cone. |
| 11:04:05 | raptor | hmmm... elliptical damage in the direction of its velocity? |
| 11:04:07 | bobdaduck | that'd be sweet. |
| 11:04:09 | bobdaduck | yeah |
| 11:04:17 | kaen | umm |
| 11:04:22 | bobdaduck | because like, then its not going to damage you if it gets shot down immediately after firing |
| 11:04:27 | raptor | i'm not sure i want to code that math for 019... |
| 11:05:07 | raptor | because I'm being super lazy and want the low hanging fruit first... :) |
| 11:05:24 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 11:05:25 | kaen | I think 1/2 radius no KB |
| 11:05:37 | bobdaduck | How hard would the math be... |
| 11:05:39 | Quartz | 1/1 radius no KB |
| 11:05:41 | bobdaduck | I think I could do it in levelgens.. |
| 11:05:42 | Quartz | GRAHGHGH |
| 11:06:07 | bobdaduck | I think you can even like call getAngle() on seekers |
| 11:06:33 | raptor | math probably wouldn't be that hard, especially since I could just steal code from somewhere.. |
| 11:06:37 | kaen | yeah, I think the math could be pretty easy |
| 11:06:48 | raptor | so... 400, 1/10, 1/5 ? |
| 11:07:01 | raptor | delay, energy, damage |
| 11:07:02 | bobdaduck | 1/10 is ridiculous |
| 11:07:10 | kaen | in the current explosion code, just add a conditional for the angle between the target and projectile being within the heading range |
| 11:07:11 | Quartz | or badass? |
| 11:07:29 | bobdaduck | dude that's like less energy than a burst takes |
| 11:07:35 | bobdaduck | you'd be able to rapid-fire seekers like triple |
| 11:07:39 | bobdaduck | infinitely |
| 11:07:41 | raptor | it's actually the same now... |
| 11:07:48 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 11:07:51 | raptor | burst will drain your energy |
| 11:07:54 | raptor | now.. |
| 11:08:43 | Quartz | Uhmmmmmmmmm. 1/8? |
| 11:08:51 | raptor | ok, i'll try that... |
| 11:09:41 | bobdaduck | Also make it so seekers are affected by solar wind |
| 11:09:43 | bobdaduck | from suns |
| 11:11:19 | Quartz | just made a map who wants to name it |
| 11:11:34 | kaen | epenthesis |
| 11:11:59 | Quartz | OKAY GG IT'S NOW CALLED EPENTHESIS |
| 11:12:04 | raptor | pneumonoultramicroscopicsiliconvolcanoconiosis |
| 11:12:09 | raptor | rats |
| 11:12:13 | raptor | took too long to type |
| 11:12:24 | kaen | I've heard that word was made up by scrablers, raptor |
| 11:12:31 | raptor | it's funny because that's a disease you get when inhaling dust from mining quartz mineral |
| 11:12:41 | Quartz | lmao |
| 11:12:42 | raptor | oh?? |
| 11:12:50 | raptor | now i have to check my sources... |
| 11:13:35 | kaen | Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis is, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, "a word invented in imitation of polysyllabic medical terms, alleged to mean �a lung disease caused by the inhalation of very fine sand and ash dust� but occurring only as an instance of a very long word."[1] A condition meeting the word's definition is normally called silicosis. |
| 11:13:40 | raptor | kaen: you're right! |
| 11:13:52 | raptor | i've been living a lie since i learned that at age 10 or so... |
| 11:13:54 | Quartz | Silicosis? |
| 11:13:55 | kaen | lol |
| 11:14:01 | Quartz | So I need to make THAT a map name |
| 11:14:06 | Quartz | for irony's sake |
| 11:14:11 | kaen | back to antidisestablishmentarionism then |
| 11:14:18 | raptor | sigh |
| 11:14:19 | raptor | yes |
| 11:14:30 | kaen | I know your pain, raptor |
| 11:14:33 | Quartz | Love it |
| 11:14:42 | kaen | after so much work to memorize it |
| 11:15:25 | Quartz | okay so Silicosis or Epenthesis |
| 11:16:17 | raptor | haha, i like Epenthesis |
| 11:16:26 | raptor | and i learned a new one: anaptyxis |
| 11:17:13 | kaen | honestly silicosis is better |
| 11:17:27 | kaen | epenthesis is just the first weird word that came to my brain |
| 11:17:41 | raptor | silicosis is what you get when playing a map by Quartz |
| 11:18:06 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 11:18:13 | bobdaduck | anaptyxis is my favorite of those |
| 11:18:33 | Quartz | ahaha |
| 11:19:19 | kaen | I wish wat was here |
| 11:19:24 | kaen | I want to release so bad |
| 11:19:32 | kaen | we're in like the last 3% |
| 11:19:42 | bobdaduck | What's left? |
| 11:19:52 | Quartz | Yeah, except you forgot to make Seeker penetrate shields. |
| 11:19:57 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 11:19:58 | kaen | 1. make the rank symbols not cycle |
| 11:20:02 | kaen | 2. balance as needed |
| 11:20:05 | kaen | 3. _______ |
| 11:20:13 | Quartz | 4. PROFIT!! |
| 11:20:21 | raptor | 5. sleep! |
| 11:20:49 | kaen | everything else is ready afaik |
| 11:20:53 | raptor | oh my... seeker is awesome now! |
| 11:20:58 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 11:21:00 | raptor | at least it seems that way... |
| 11:21:02 | kaen | push it and let's play! |
| 11:21:06 | bobdaduck | It would be even more awesome if it exploded in a cone |
| 11:21:49 | raptor | ok, i only adjusts seeker stats |
| 11:21:55 | raptor | now area damage yet |
| 11:21:56 | | BFLogBot Commit: 6e8fcf9bc68b | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Trying something different with seeker - shoots faster, does less damage, uses less energy |
| 11:22:06 | raptor | also, i can't host |
| 11:22:20 | kaen | oh : |
| 11:22:21 | kaen | x |
| 11:22:24 | kaen | I can try! |
| 11:22:31 | raptor | oh yay :) |
| 11:22:40 | kaen | building |
| 11:22:57 | raptor | i changed one of those ugly header files that makes everything recompile... |
| 11:22:58 | kaen | full recompile it seems |
| 11:23:03 | Quartz | kaen what happened to your servers? |
| 11:23:21 | bobdaduck | YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW |
| 11:23:26 | bobdaduck | BUT IT GOT ALL OVER THE CEILING. |
| 11:23:38 | kaen | my host went down again so I cancelled my account |
| 11:23:44 | kaen | haven't gotten a new host yet |
| 11:24:06 | Quartz | gotcha |
| 11:24:14 | Quartz | Ewwww bob tmi |
| 11:24:42 | raptor | Quartz: you're opinion of the new master lobby?: http://imagebin.org/270378 |
| 11:24:45 | raptor | *your |
| 11:25:19 | Quartz | I kinda miss the colors. |
| 11:25:25 | raptor | more color, ok |
| 11:25:34 | Quartz | The style of the pop up is cool though |
| 11:25:38 | kaen | I don't really miss *those* colors |
| 11:25:41 | Quartz | Simple, but it's something. |
| 11:25:50 | raptor | maybe different colors than puke? |
| 11:25:57 | kaen | off-puke, at least |
| 11:26:01 | Quartz | Well, at least a color for the selected organization |
| 11:26:07 | Quartz | It was previously yellow? |
| 11:26:28 | raptor | yes, slightly off-poop |
| 11:26:34 | Quartz | http://31.media.tumblr.com/f15bd92cbb910b42b684995c2d8ea3ee/tumblr_msrss9QLMF1r918kto1_400.gif |
| 11:27:22 | bobdaduck | what even |
| 11:27:32 | Quartz | Way better than the original |
| 11:27:48 | bobdaduck | Maybe a dark green |
| 11:32:11 | raptor | bobdaduck: are you in a position to test the new seekers if I give you an EXE? |
| 11:32:18 | raptor | Quartz: are you windows or osx? |
| 11:32:19 | bobdaduck | yes |
| 11:32:21 | | Nothing_Much Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 11:34:11 | | Watusimoto has joined |
| 11:34:13 | kaen | gahhhhh |
| 11:34:20 | raptor | ok, give me a min... |
| 11:34:28 | kaen | I forgot I was configured for cross building |
| 11:34:32 | Watusimoto | hey there... I've got a bit of a problem |
| 11:34:34 | raptor | ha |
| 11:34:38 | raptor | hi Watusimoto |
| 11:34:42 | bobdaduck | I see. |
| 11:34:45 | Quartz | OS X |
| 11:34:47 | Watusimoto | in UiManager, we have the following: |
| 11:34:48 | bobdaduck | And how does that make you feel? |
| 11:34:48 | Watusimoto | template <typename T> |
| 11:34:48 | Watusimoto | bool isCurrentUI() |
| 11:34:48 | Watusimoto | { |
| 11:34:48 | Watusimoto | return mCurrentInterface == getUI<T>(); |
| 11:34:49 | Watusimoto | } |
| 11:34:59 | Quartz | I can run Windows XP if I want to though |
| 11:35:15 | Watusimoto | but I need to push this down into UIManagerReal |
| 11:35:18 | raptor | argh, i can't do the osx one - it's most likely broke |
| 11:35:30 | Watusimoto | but there is no way to make a template virtual |
| 11:35:50 | raptor | templates bite again! |
| 11:35:57 | Watusimoto | hmmm... maybe I can find a way to make the implementation work for the real and the fake |
| 11:36:01 | kaen | you have to push it down? you can't just implement it in the interface? |
| 11:36:02 | Watusimoto | bah, I hate this |
| 11:36:07 | Watusimoto | maybe I can |
| 11:36:18 | Watusimoto | maybe I can |
| 11:36:25 | Watusimoto | well, I'll have to! |
| 11:36:35 | Watusimoto | actually, this uses no UI code, so maybe it will work |
| 11:36:36 | kaen | I think that's where it belongs anyway |
| 11:36:56 | Watusimoto | well, I was pushing everything down, then I was going to bring whatever I needed to bring back up |
| 11:37:06 | Watusimoto | maybe this is one such example |
| 11:37:07 | kaen | ah, ok |
| 11:39:01 | bobdaduck | I think I'ma head to lunch |
| 11:40:28 | | Quartz Quit (Quit: Page closed) |
| 11:40:36 | raptor | ok |
| 11:40:38 | Watusimoto | one problem is that I'll probably now need to create a whole bunch of fake classes to satisfy some of the template code |
| 11:40:45 | raptor | beta test when you get back |
| 11:40:46 | Watusimoto | which I do NOT want to do |
| 11:40:58 | bobdaduck | BYE |
| 11:41:00 | Watusimoto | bye |
| 11:41:03 | | bobdaduck Quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 11:41:12 | Watusimoto | I'm going to have to get creative! |
| 11:41:27 | Watusimoto | example: |
| 11:41:28 | Watusimoto | template <typename T> |
| 11:41:33 | Watusimoto | oops |
| 11:41:34 | Watusimoto | template <typename T> |
| 11:41:34 | Watusimoto | void activate(bool save = true) |
| 11:41:34 | Watusimoto | { |
| 11:41:34 | Watusimoto | activate(getUI<T>(), save); |
| 11:41:34 | Watusimoto | } |
| 11:41:42 | Watusimoto | wait, bad example |
| 11:41:44 | Watusimoto | forget it |
| 11:42:17 | Watusimoto | actually, this is a good example |
| 11:42:18 | Watusimoto | template <typename T> |
| 11:42:18 | Watusimoto | T *getUI() |
| 11:42:18 | Watusimoto | { |
| 11:42:18 | Watusimoto | static T ui(mGame); // Uses lazy initialization |
| 11:42:18 | Watusimoto | return &ui; |
| 11:42:20 | Watusimoto | } |
| 11:43:01 | Watusimoto | not sure how I can do that in the interface without creating all the potential Ts... |
| 11:43:46 | kaen | it can't use the existing Ts ? |
| 11:44:03 | kaen | are they contained in UIManager? |
| 11:45:11 | | Nothing_Much has joined |
| 11:45:38 | Watusimoto | the Ts are all the different UI classes we have |
| 11:45:54 | raptor | ok here is the new beta for the windows users: ftp://ftp.novell.com/outgoing/bitfighter-019-beta-6e8fcf9bc68b.zip |
| 11:46:25 | Watusimoto | I'm trying to resolve some possibly related other issues first, and hoping that a solution will fall into place. |
| 11:46:28 | Watusimoto | but it won't :-) |
| 11:48:59 | Watusimoto | raptor: I know you don't much like template code, but remember how much UIManager junk they let us get rid of? Tons! |
| 11:49:15 | raptor | yes.. too true |
| 11:49:17 | | koda has joined |
| 11:57:56 | kaen | hosting, raptor |
| 11:58:01 | raptor | oh goodie |
| 11:59:55 | | LordDVG has joined |
| 12:06:21 | raptor | wow |
| 12:06:24 | raptor | major bug |
| 12:06:27 | kaen | that was fun |
| 12:06:32 | raptor | i can't believe it didn't crash |
| 12:06:37 | kaen | me either |
| 12:06:42 | kaen | I tried %s'ing it hard |
| 12:07:10 | kaen | it probably would crash on a compiler without default initialization to zero... |
| 12:07:16 | | kaen eyes vc++ |
| 12:07:40 | | LordDVG Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 12:08:27 | raptor | heh |
| 12:08:27 | kaen | I think our sprintf wrapper needs an assertion against having empty varargs |
| 12:08:41 | raptor | you think it is within TNL? |
| 12:08:51 | kaen | no, I think it's our use of it |
| 12:09:06 | raptor | hmm... ok |
| 12:09:08 | kaen | doing printf(log_message) instead of printf("%s", log_message) |
| 12:09:13 | raptor | we need to keep a bug list somewhere again |
| 12:09:18 | raptor | polish list |
| 12:09:33 | kaen | and our printf should trigger an assert in the former case because that's always wrong |
| 12:10:02 | kaen | and we should probably have a regular fooprint() function for when you don't want formatting |
| 12:10:19 | raptor | yeah |
| 12:10:44 | raptor | ok, to wrap up seeker - is the faster fighter/less energy change on the right track? |
| 12:11:11 | kaen | I think so |
| 12:11:18 | kaen | I think it needs to fire faster and take less energy |
| 12:11:52 | kaen | not much faster, though |
| 12:12:08 | raptor | ok |
| 12:12:25 | raptor | it's att 400 delay... maybe change to 300? |
| 12:12:37 | kaen | I think so |
| 12:13:14 | raptor | should seeker-seeker collisions be removed? maybe that's not an issue at this fire rate anymore.. |
| 12:14:26 | kaen | I actually I think it's a pretty big issue |
| 12:14:38 | raptor | you can deplete your energy quickly at 300... |
| 12:14:43 | raptor | ok, remove it? |
| 12:14:49 | kaen | two dense columns of seekers intersect, then they all get destroyed |
| 12:14:50 | kaen | yeah |
| 12:14:58 | raptor | and if they have area damage... |
| 12:15:02 | kaen | right |
| 12:16:18 | raptor | hmm... the 300 rate makes me think people will *have* to have shield |
| 12:16:29 | kaen | ahh, good point |
| 12:16:47 | raptor | i'll reduce energy, but keep it 400 for now... |
| 12:17:22 | kaen | I was able to land a few solid clusters of them at 400 |
| 12:17:42 | kaen | that's mostly the capability I'm trying to preserve |
| 12:19:34 | | Canseco Quit (Quit: Leaving) |
| 12:20:08 | kaen | in fact, from a strategy perspective it's better the space them out somewhat |
| 12:20:22 | kaen | you'll require your opponent to shield for a longer period and use less energy per second |
| 12:20:32 | Watusimoto | I'll say that the "have to have shield" to protect from seekers |
| 12:21:05 | Watusimoto | suggests making shields useless against seekers |
| 12:21:07 | Watusimoto | :-) |
| 12:21:22 | | LordDVG has joined |
| 12:21:32 | Watusimoto | got the tests to compile!!!! |
| 12:21:37 | kaen | \o/ |
| 12:21:42 | Watusimoto | but 168 link errors |
| 12:21:47 | Watusimoto | :-( |
| 12:21:50 | raptor | hahaha |
| 12:21:54 | raptor | i mean... i'm sorry |
| 12:22:28 | Watusimoto | I see... it's trying to link in all the UI classes I tried to exclude |
| 12:23:18 | | LordDVG Quit (Excess Flood) |
| 12:24:39 | | bobdaduck has joined |
| 12:25:55 | bobdaduck | okayI'mback |
| 12:28:12 | raptor | bobdaduck: ftp://ftp.novell.com/outgoing/bitfighter-019-beta-6e8fcf9bc68b.zip |
| 12:28:28 | bobdaduck | kkk |
| 12:33:32 | raptor | kaen: do you think mopad would let us use it?: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/ |
| 12:34:24 | bobdaduck | feels a lot better |
| 12:34:26 | kaen | " for Mozilla related work" |
| 12:34:29 | kaen | I don't think so |
| 12:34:38 | raptor | oh man, it is the old etherpad |
| 12:34:39 | bobdaduck | anything else I should test? |
| 12:35:26 | kaen | I deprecated some lua functions |
| 12:35:32 | kaen | I'm about to push the s_bot changes |
| 12:37:14 | | BFLogBot Commit: 666d8063410b | Author: kaen | Message: update s_bot to use new lua functions |
| 12:38:35 | | BFLogBot Commit: 8e4d1b202be7 | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Decrease seeker energy usage slightly again |
| 12:40:45 | raptor | i'm glad I rewrote BFLogBot into python, it really gave me an appreciation for that language |
| 12:40:45 | BFLogBot | Someday I'll write my own philosophy book. -- Calvin |
| 12:41:14 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 12:42:31 | kaen | ma |
| 12:42:32 | kaen | n |
| 12:42:48 | kaen | changing the energy usage for seeker should not make me recompile barrier.cpp |
| 12:43:21 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 12:43:30 | raptor | I agree... is there a way around it with these xmacros? |
| 12:43:43 | raptor | or maybe it's the enums |
| 12:43:49 | kaen | feels like enums |
| 12:44:21 | raptor | can't forward declaure enums... |
| 12:44:24 | raptor | *declare |
| 12:44:46 | kaen | right |
| 12:45:00 | raptor | I did it!: http://board.net/p/bf_019_polish |
| 12:45:06 | kaen | nice! |
| 12:54:53 | Watusimoto | dinner... back later |
| 12:57:10 | raptor | bobdaduck: please add anything that comes to mind here: http://board.net/p/bf_019_polish |
| 12:59:19 | | Watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 13:04:19 | kaen | raptor, I'm cranking through the robots real quick |
| 13:04:56 | raptor | ok |
| 13:13:28 | bobdaduck | oh cool |
| 13:13:33 | bobdaduck | /lag crashes the game |
| 13:24:38 | raptor | kaen: last call for seeker-not-hitting-seeker |
| 13:24:42 | raptor | err everyone |
| 13:24:53 | raptor | bullets hit seeker... |
| 13:26:50 | kaen | oh man |
| 13:26:51 | kaen | uhhh |
| 13:27:13 | kaen | well I guess seeker should hit seeker after all |
| 13:27:30 | kaen | I mean if bullets hit seekers |
| 13:27:42 | raptor | does it make sense to be able to shoot them down? |
| 13:27:47 | kaen | yeah |
| 13:27:51 | raptor | i kind of think so |
| 13:27:56 | kaen | I really like that defense |
| 13:28:08 | kaen | prevents you from strictly needing shield |
| 13:28:18 | kaen | seeker might as well hit seeker |
| 13:28:19 | raptor | yes, i agree |
| 13:28:22 | raptor | ok |
| 13:28:28 | kaen | preventing/causing collisions is another advantage of skill |
| 13:28:45 | raptor | (I had finally found the place in the code to add it..) |
| 13:29:33 | kaen | raptor, any idea where weaponinfo went? |
| 13:29:50 | kaen | aegis bot uses it... |
| 13:31:37 | raptor | uhh |
| 13:31:44 | raptor | Weapon.Seeker, etc.? |
| 13:32:15 | raptor | oh |
| 13:32:18 | raptor | hmmm... |
| 13:32:21 | raptor | no warning? |
| 13:33:20 | kaen | it's trying to do |
| 13:33:21 | kaen | local weap = closestItem:getWeapon() |
| 13:33:21 | kaen | local weapInfo = WeaponInfo(weap) |
| 13:33:21 | kaen | logprint("Targeting " .. weapInfo:getName()) |
| 13:33:43 | raptor | hmmm |
| 13:34:05 | raptor | oh |
| 13:34:05 | bobdaduck | I think that if seekers do area damage a seeker hitting something isn't altogether a loss anyway |
| 13:34:07 | kaen | robots/projectileshooter.bot:53: attempt to call global 'WeaponInfo' (a table value) |
| 13:34:16 | raptor | WeaponInfo[Weapon.Seeker] ? |
| 13:35:27 | kaen | robots/projectileshooter.bot:54: attempt to call missing or unknown method 'getName' (a nil value) |
| 13:35:36 | raptor | .name |
| 13:35:44 | kaen | ohhhh |
| 13:36:05 | raptor | see: LuaScriptRunner::setGlobalObjectArrays |
| 13:36:26 | raptor | let me see about loadouts... |
| 13:41:59 | | Watusimoto has joined |
| 13:45:51 | raptor | Watusimoto: http://board.net/p/bf_019_polish |
| 13:47:38 | Watusimoto | is it in Polish? |
| 13:47:57 | raptor | To some English speakers, I bet it's close enough |
| 13:51:01 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 13:56:46 | Watusimoto | so why board.net and not etherpad? |
| 13:58:29 | Nothing_Much | polish? I thought it was pronounced pah lish, like, extra fixes and whatnot? |
| 13:59:26 | raptor | beta.etherpad.org |
| 13:59:30 | raptor | http://beta.etherpad.org |
| 13:59:35 | raptor | is why |
| 13:59:56 | raptor | so i found a (seemingly) more robust public instance of it |
| 14:00:16 | raptor | board.net at least says they've been up since 2011 without interruption |
| 14:00:42 | raptor | etherpad has gone down (really down) twice (thrice?) in the last half year |
| 14:06:01 | Watusimoto | ah, I see |
| 14:06:06 | Watusimoto | mostly just curious |
| 14:09:30 | | Little_Apple has joined |
| 14:09:40 | Little_Apple | hello hello |
| 14:11:16 | kaen | greetings |
| 14:11:22 | raptor | hello |
| 14:11:30 | bobdaduck | Hail, gentleapple |
| 14:13:03 | raptor | !bugs |
| 14:13:03 | BFLogBot | To enter a bug: http://tinyurl.com/bfnewbug -- To view all bugs: http://tinyurl.com/bfbugs |
| 14:14:06 | Watusimoto | back shortly |
| 14:14:59 | raptor | who are you calling 'shortly'? |
| 14:15:15 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 14:16:16 | kaen | uh |
| 14:16:29 | kaen | is repairbot not a part of the core? |
| 14:16:34 | raptor | no |
| 14:16:36 | kaen | oh ok |
| 14:16:39 | kaen | well then I'm done :) |
| 14:16:41 | raptor | he's an evil, evil project of mine |
| 14:17:27 | raptor | I have this grandiose plan to one day have 'personalities' for s_bot |
| 14:17:39 | raptor | based on favorite weapon/ module |
| 14:17:45 | Little_Apple | dude... bots are bad enough as is |
| 14:17:54 | raptor | repair bot would be an evil incarnation |
| 14:18:09 | Little_Apple | most players just use default shield and boost.... |
| 14:18:09 | | BFLogBot Commit: 55a96b565188 | Author: kaen | Message: update bots after lua api changes |
| 14:18:12 | Little_Apple | bots with modules.... |
| 14:18:15 | raptor | Little_Apple: still sad about getting beaten by s_bot all the time? |
| 14:18:19 | kaen | repairbot is not the least evil bot I could think of ... |
| 14:18:22 | raptor | ok, that's really me... |
| 14:18:23 | Little_Apple | they would be... unstoppable. |
| 14:18:39 | kaen | most evil* |
| 14:18:43 | raptor | what's the most evil bot? I created TerrorBot |
| 14:18:47 | raptor | as well |
| 14:18:50 | kaen | uh |
| 14:18:53 | kaen | lol what is that? |
| 14:19:12 | raptor | oh you mean, not the least evil that could be coded? or that exists? |
| 14:19:21 | raptor | TerrorBot is the dark side of SentinelBot |
| 14:19:25 | kaen | uh I'm not sure what I meant |
| 14:19:50 | kaen | repairbot is pretty mean, though |
| 14:19:52 | raptor | Little_Apple once unleased the full fury of many TerrorBots on me one game |
| 14:20:17 | raptor | or maybe it was BlackBird... who has a different name now? |
| 14:20:18 | Little_Apple | hehehehehehhe |
| 14:20:24 | Little_Apple | blackbird |
| 14:21:14 | Little_Apple | previously known as |
| 14:21:18 | Little_Apple | "NinjaPoo |
| 14:21:19 | Little_Apple | " |
| 14:21:58 | raptor | that's right |
| 14:22:06 | raptor | blackninja poobird |
| 14:22:18 | raptor | birdpoo |
| 14:22:29 | Little_Apple | yep! |
| 14:26:21 | bobdaduck | Wait bots are difficult? |
| 14:26:33 | Little_Apple | shhhhh |
| 14:26:38 | raptor | quiet |
| 14:26:57 | bobdaduck | Dudes there's so many cheats |
| 14:27:07 | bobdaduck | bots don't shield bursts |
| 14:27:15 | bobdaduck | firing at bots from behind a wall makes them shield to use up their energy |
| 14:27:29 | bobdaduck | you can just run backwards and be outside their range of fire shooting backwards |
| 14:27:34 | Little_Apple | yeep |
| 14:29:26 | | thread_ has joined |
| 14:29:44 | Little_Apple | ACK |
| 14:29:45 | | Little_Apple Quit (Quit: Page closed) |
| 14:30:16 | raptor | did he just complete a TCP SYN...ACK transaction? |
| 14:30:38 | raptor | handshake |
| 14:30:59 | thread_ | did... did I scare little_apple away? |
| 14:31:55 | bobdaduck | No |
| 14:32:02 | bobdaduck | Little apple is still where he always is |
| 14:32:09 | bobdaduck | it is the universe that has been scared away from him |
| 14:43:28 | raptor | seeker blast radius? |
| 14:43:38 | raptor | Burst has inner/outer of 100/250 |
| 14:43:49 | raptor | where if you're in the inner one, you get full damage |
| 14:44:07 | raptor | otherwise damage scales to the outer radius |
| 14:44:31 | bobdaduck | 80/230 |
| 14:45:02 | raptor | ship radius is 24 so ship width is 48 |
| 14:45:26 | raptor | 80/230... ok |
| 14:45:32 | raptor | that seems more-or-less reasonable |
| 14:45:37 | raptor | since it has only 1/5 damage |
| 14:53:30 | raptor | ok |
| 14:53:31 | raptor | so |
| 14:54:11 | raptor | unintended consequence of switching Seeker to area damage - kickback is partly based on projectile velocity. This means you get kicked back significantly |
| 14:55:54 | bobdaduck | I thought we sort of agreed on no knockback? |
| 14:56:09 | bobdaduck | Also I'm still advocating knockback to be constricted to a cone |
| 14:56:11 | raptor | yes well |
| 14:56:18 | raptor | that's when it hits you |
| 14:56:30 | raptor | this happens when the *blast* hits you |
| 14:57:40 | bobdaduck | but like the blast shouldn't hit you? |
| 14:57:46 | bobdaduck | er, knock you back |
| 14:58:08 | bobdaduck | Though I can see some interesting implications of this |
| 14:58:11 | raptor | ok. Is that what is wanted? This was an unintended consequence afterall... |
| 14:58:23 | bobdaduck | using the knockback to launch past enemy lines, making armor more valuable, etc |
| 14:58:39 | bobdaduck | I think that knockback only in a cone blast would be good |
| 14:58:44 | bobdaduck | because like, boom. |
| 14:59:12 | | BFLogBot Commit: 18f16738ac7d | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Seeker does area damage. Watch out for the blast kickback! |
| 14:59:56 | bobdaduck | the large blast kickback in only a cone might work well thematically and gameplaywise |
| 15:00:03 | bobdaduck | but in a circle, no there shouldn't be knockback. |
| 15:00:12 | bobdaduck | especially not excessive knockback xD |
| 15:05:29 | raptor | will seeker area blast damage yourself? |
| 15:05:59 | raptor | stack overflow! |
| 15:08:02 | bobdaduck | that was part of my "cone explosion" proposal. |
| 15:08:12 | bobdaduck | So it won't damage you unless its actually after you. |
| 15:18:29 | thread_ | All I need is a shotgun |
| 15:20:59 | bobdaduck | All I need is love |
| 15:21:06 | bobdaduck | love > shotgun |
| 15:21:53 | thread_ | shotgun love? |
| 15:22:18 | bobdaduck | So like, Texas. |
| 15:22:53 | thread_ | what if there was a weapon that could effectively one-shot players, but damaged you for half your max hp |
| 15:23:08 | thread_ | so its only good for two shots and it kills you |
| 15:23:21 | bobdaduck | I once modded triple to shoot like 20 bullets |
| 15:23:39 | bobdaduck | it would one shot people, if you managed to catch them at point-blank range. Which was ridiculously difficult to do. |
| 15:23:39 | thread_ | lol |
| 15:23:46 | thread_ | uuuh, like changed the source code? or levelgen? |
| 15:23:51 | raptor | i don't understand this stack overflow |
| 15:24:04 | raptor | two bursts can damage one another and be fine... but not two seekers... |
| 15:24:43 | thread_ | two mines are fine too right? |
| 15:24:56 | raptor | yep |
| 15:25:37 | thread_ | and you are using the same or similar code? |
| 15:26:03 | raptor | yep |
| 15:26:13 | thread_ | huh |
| 15:26:19 | raptor | didn't change the area damaging method at all |
| 15:26:43 | bobdaduck | changed the source code, yes. |
| 15:26:58 | raptor | http://pastie.org/pastes/8312075/text |
| 15:27:34 | raptor | ignore stack numbers 1-8 |
| 15:28:52 | thread_ | uuuuhhh. I don't know. |
| 15:29:05 | bobdaduck | IS IT DIVIDING BY 0? |
| 15:29:55 | thread_ | well, I can't say by only looking at the overflow |
| 15:30:39 | bobdaduck | Is it making two explosions in the same spot? |
| 15:30:50 | bobdaduck | Is it trying to knockback the enemy seeker? |
| 15:31:22 | thread_ | you know what would be cool? if you could hybrid weapons somehow. Like equip triple and burst, then mix them so its one weapon. shoots three busts |
| 15:31:44 | bobdaduck | mine and burst |
| 15:31:58 | bobdaduck | makes a mine that's totally visible |
| 15:32:03 | thread_ | a burst that sets a mine instead of exploding |
| 15:32:16 | thread_ | so romote placing |
| 15:32:26 | bobdaduck | SEEKER BOUNCER |
| 15:32:28 | bobdaduck | MINE BOUNCER |
| 15:32:33 | thread_ | yes |
| 15:32:33 | bobdaduck | I swear this is the best ever |
| 15:32:49 | thread_ | can we do this? |
| 15:33:15 | bobdaduck | No, we can't |
| 15:33:26 | bobdaduck | Other devs are not convinced and will need a code demonstration |
| 15:33:35 | bobdaduck | It wouldn't be as high priority as suns are anyway |
| 15:34:20 | thread_ | just sneak some code that constantly spawns bursts on players with their names. then don't tell them where it is until the agree |
| 15:34:37 | Watusimoto | back |
| 15:34:44 | bobdaduck | WE WEREN'T TALKING ABOUT ANYTHING |
| 15:34:45 | raptor | ha! |
| 15:34:49 | raptor | I think I found it... |
| 15:34:55 | | thread_ whistles innocently |
| 15:34:57 | Watusimoto | and realized all the work I did since yesterday needs to be chucked :-( |
| 15:36:15 | thread_ | sooooo.... 019 soon? |
| 15:38:28 | Watusimoto | not too soon, but we' |
| 15:38:37 | Watusimoto | re all working toward it |
| 15:38:45 | raptor | ok |
| 15:38:48 | Watusimoto | raptor is starting to carp on anyone who starts a new feature |
| 15:38:49 | | BFLogBot Commit: 2e2a7b6cd905 | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Fix stack overflow with Seeker |
| 15:38:50 | Watusimoto | :-) |
| 15:38:56 | raptor | CARP CARP CARP |
| 15:39:01 | Watusimoto | so it's mostly bug fixing and polishing |
| 15:39:14 | Watusimoto | finishing stuff we already started |
| 15:39:23 | Watusimoto | and coming up with a couple of new achievements |
| 15:40:07 | bobdaduck | have a level get more than 10 ratings on pleiades |
| 15:40:11 | bobdaduck | *goes home* |
| 15:40:13 | | bobdaduck Quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 15:40:45 | Watusimoto | propose a weapon that penetrates shield |
| 15:40:54 | Watusimoto | *already at home* |
| 15:41:10 | Watusimoto | rats, didn't notice that bdd left |
| 15:42:15 | Watusimoto | it turns out my UIManager issue was much simpler than I thought |
| 15:42:25 | Watusimoto | no need for interfaces and subclasses and all that guff |
| 15:42:34 | Watusimoto | (saying this as it still isn't working) |
| 15:42:41 | Watusimoto | just swap out the .cpp files |
| 15:42:54 | Watusimoto | different implementations of the same class |
| 15:42:57 | raptor | case of coding-forever-late-at-night-because-brain-is-half-dead? |
| 15:43:03 | Watusimoto | not even |
| 15:43:08 | Watusimoto | just not seeing the obvious |
| 15:44:05 | | BFLogBot Commit: eb65b8a8f88e | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Remove kickback from Seeker blast |
| 15:47:10 | thread_ | raptor: you may have to carp on me for this, but there is another feature I would like if it hasn't already been brought up |
| 15:47:39 | raptor | I don't mind discussing them |
| 15:47:41 | raptor | :) |
| 15:47:49 | thread_ | bursts/mines/projectiles should be able to have a lua method for assigning what player owns them |
| 15:47:59 | raptor | already done :) |
| 15:48:02 | raptor | tada! |
| 15:48:03 | thread_ | ok |
| 15:48:14 | raptor | fastest feature implemented... ever |
| 15:48:26 | thread_ | well, I only have bad ideas for now... |
| 15:48:27 | raptor | *feature request |
| 15:48:43 | thread_ | any word on letting me force players to cloak? |
| 15:48:56 | raptor | uhh... I don't think I was in those discussions |
| 15:49:19 | thread_ | I think you were. I wanted to make a zone that all players inside were cloaked... like a hiding place of sorts |
| 15:50:20 | thread_ | though, to be honest, I don't quite remember what the level design was for that idea |
| 15:51:02 | raptor | ah.. i read about that from the logs, i think |
| 15:51:05 | raptor | hmmm |
| 15:51:16 | raptor | I don't have any specific thoughts on that at the moment |
| 15:51:33 | thread_ | really, I could see it being useful to force modules on people without energy cost at times... but I can also see it being abused |
| 15:51:55 | thread_ | EVERYONE HAS SHIELD ALWAYS!!! sort of thing |
| 15:53:02 | thread_ | but hey, that might be too much for 019. Maybe another version |
| 15:53:20 | raptor | too much for 019 <-- yes |
| 15:53:50 | raptor | but I don't have thoughts pro or con against that idea, though |
| 15:53:59 | thread_ | at least you agree with half my statement ;) |
| 15:54:10 | thread_ | ok |
| 15:56:55 | thread_ | so, how do you feel about me wanting a new game type for 020? |
| 15:57:42 | Watusimoto | raptor/kaen: Regarding the mocking issues, any thoughts on how to handle lines like this (in the middle of RabbitGameType): |
| 15:57:45 | Watusimoto | return boost::shared_ptr<MenuItem>(new CounterMenuItem... |
| 15:58:04 | Watusimoto | we can't include MenuItem stuff because it has lots of rendering code in it |
| 15:58:32 | Watusimoto | the only thing I can think of is to ifdef the code out |
| 15:58:39 | Watusimoto | but... yuck |
| 15:58:47 | Watusimoto | we already have too much of that for the dedicated build |
| 15:58:58 | raptor | oh boy |
| 15:59:40 | Watusimoto | or maybe we can build all that in and just hope it never executes |
| 15:59:45 | Watusimoto | I wonder if that would work |
| 15:59:47 | raptor | heh, yes |
| 16:00:15 | Watusimoto | I already removed all the UI code from the test projects... I guess I can add it back |
| 16:00:23 | raptor | or... maybe we should use the Game abstraction for the Menu stuff, too? |
| 16:08:18 | | Nothing_Much Quit (Quit: bye) |
| 16:11:13 | | Nothing_Much has joined |
| 16:11:19 | | Nothing_Much Quit (Changing host) |
| 16:11:19 | | Nothing_Much has joined |
| 16:15:39 | | Nothing_Much Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 16:17:30 | | Nothing_Much has joined |
| 16:17:30 | | Nothing_Much Quit (Changing host) |
| 16:17:30 | | Nothing_Much has joined |
| 16:36:26 | Watusimoto | what do you mean by the game abstraction? |
| 16:48:23 | | YoshiSmb has joined |
| 16:52:25 | | thread_ has left #bitfighter |
| 16:57:18 | | Nothing_Much Quit (Quit: bye) |
| 16:57:36 | | Nothing_Much has joined |
| 16:57:36 | | Nothing_Much Quit (Changing host) |
| 16:57:36 | | Nothing_Much has joined |
| 16:59:20 | | Nothing_Much Quit (Client Quit) |
| 16:59:41 | | Nothing_Much has joined |
| 16:59:41 | | Nothing_Much Quit (Changing host) |
| 16:59:41 | | Nothing_Much has joined |
| 17:01:28 | raptor | you know how we started to move all UI code into the Game object and let either ServerGame or ClientGame handle what to do with it? Maybe something similar can be done with UI code in the gametypes |
| 17:01:28 | Watusimoto | TEST COMPILES AND LINKS, AND CRASHES IN A NEW, MORE ADVANCED LOCATION!!!! HOORAY!!!! |
| 17:01:37 | raptor | hooray!! |
| 17:01:55 | Watusimoto | turns out it may not matter |
| 17:02:20 | Watusimoto | which is good because your suggestion will not work |
| 17:02:41 | Watusimoto | gametypes are TNL objects, so we can't easily subclass them and have one subclass on client, one on server |
| 17:02:51 | Watusimoto | it would be like subclassing testItems |
| 17:02:54 | raptor | ah |
| 17:03:09 | Watusimoto | I've gone through the same thought process a dozen times |
| 17:03:11 | | YoshiSmb Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 17:03:28 | Watusimoto | gametypes are weird things |
| 17:03:52 | Watusimoto | so, I think, we can, in principle, do tests on client/server interaction |
| 17:04:37 | Watusimoto | I won't have a sample working tonight, but maybe tomorrow |
| 17:04:54 | Watusimoto | and, I hope, I can implement some tests for spawndelay |
| 17:04:58 | Watusimoto | and figure out why its broke |
| 17:05:13 | raptor | what about it is broke? |
| 17:05:26 | raptor | because I think it is broke too, but in a wierd hard-to-dupe way |
| 17:05:46 | Watusimoto | easy |
| 17:05:55 | Watusimoto | type /idle and see |
| 17:06:06 | Watusimoto | you get the cuontdown before the idle message |
| 17:06:29 | Watusimoto | this is a rather obvious problem; there may be more subtle breakages as well |
| 17:06:52 | Watusimoto | hopefully the tests will help us get it sorted once and for all... there are only a limited number of scenarios to consider |
| 17:07:04 | Watusimoto | and I hope the tests will be able to capture those |
| 17:08:28 | raptor | ok, i did /idle |
| 17:09:04 | Watusimoto | it should just say press any key to continue, then make you wait 5 secs |
| 17:09:06 | raptor | got countdown |
| 17:09:06 | raptor | waited 5 seconds then got 'press any key to spawn' |
| 17:09:07 | raptor | how is that weird? |
| 17:09:23 | raptor | ah ok |
| 17:09:27 | Watusimoto | it should say press any key to spawn, then make you wait the 5 secs as your punishment for idle |
| 17:09:34 | raptor | (I think freenode is delaying, i just got 4 messages instantly) |
| 17:09:44 | Watusimoto | but the signals are somehow getting mixed up |
| 17:10:02 | Watusimoto | I tried to diagnose, but there is so much this calling that that I got totally tripped up |
| 17:10:56 | Watusimoto | ok, everything builds now... a miracle! |
| 17:11:37 | raptor | wow |
| 17:14:02 | Watusimoto | this will be a monster checkin when it goes... |
| 17:14:03 | | YoshiSmb has joined |
| 17:14:05 | Watusimoto | (tomorrow) |
| 17:14:27 | raptor | uh oh... |
| 17:17:18 | Watusimoto | so |
| 17:17:26 | Watusimoto | I've created two new files... |
| 17:17:38 | Watusimoto | UIManager_Real.cpp and UIManager_Test.cpp |
| 17:17:47 | Watusimoto | with real code/stubs respectively |
| 17:17:57 | Watusimoto | (this may be a question for kaen, not sure) |
| 17:18:04 | Watusimoto | I need to update cmakelists.txt |
| 17:18:19 | Watusimoto | I added UIManager_Real.cpp to the cmakelists in the zap folder |
| 17:18:50 | Watusimoto | how do I get UIManager_Test.cpp to get added to the test project but not the bitfighter projects |
| 17:18:51 | Watusimoto | ? |
| 17:23:58 | raptor | hmmm |
| 17:24:08 | raptor | Is there a CMakeLists in the test folder |
| 17:24:11 | Watusimoto | I hosed something bad |
| 17:24:13 | raptor | kaen set that up |
| 17:24:29 | Watusimoto | from the build folder, I typed |
| 17:24:44 | Watusimoto | cmake -G "Visual Studio 10" .. |
| 17:24:50 | Watusimoto | and now I have no project |
| 17:25:15 | Watusimoto | ah wait |
| 17:26:36 | Watusimoto | fixed that |
| 17:27:54 | Watusimoto | ok, the cmake project needs to be fixed a little, I'll work with kaen tomorrow to see what needs to happen |
| 17:28:58 | raptor | ok |
| 17:29:02 | raptor | i'm heading home |
| 17:29:05 | raptor | night! |
| 17:29:17 | raptor | feel free to add stuff on the polish page |
| 17:29:27 | Watusimoto | ok, night! |
| 17:29:32 | | raptor Quit () |
| 17:55:07 | | Watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 18:18:05 | | koda Quit (Quit: k thx bai) |
| 20:22:39 | | amgine1234567890 has joined |
| 20:22:45 | amgine1234567890 | hello |
| 20:28:35 | YoshiSmb | hi |
| 20:39:30 | kaen | hello :) |
| 20:45:40 | | Nothing_Much Quit (Quit: bye) |
| 20:54:08 | amgine1234567890 | got a new computer now 500% faster |
| 20:54:09 | | YoshiSmb Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 20:54:25 | amgine1234567890 | games run almost to fast now |
| 22:33:34 | amgine1234567890 | kaen you here? |
| 23:06:19 | | amgine1234567890 Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
