Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
| 00:01:05 | raptor | hooray! |
| 00:19:12 | | BFLogBot Commit: c4010aa0f29f | Author: watusimoto | Message: Add RobotManager tests to verify handling of players who change teams |
| 00:31:53 | Watusimoto | I'm writing a test to simulate the robotmanager bug with bots in a levelfile and restarting and all |
| 00:32:03 | Watusimoto | I'm not sure how to actually test that |
| 00:32:13 | Watusimoto | I have a dummy levelfile which loads some bots |
| 00:32:33 | Watusimoto | but in order to load that levelcode, the bots actually need to exist in the test folder somewhere |
| 00:32:54 | Watusimoto | because during the parsing of the levelfile, we actually load the bot code |
| 00:33:13 | Watusimoto | we probably don't want to do that for the test |
| 00:33:24 | Watusimoto | need to figure out what to do here |
| 00:45:05 | raptor | we should intrinsicly repurpose exceptional mindshare |
| 00:45:24 | raptor | or phosfluorescently extend extensible initiatives |
| 01:28:06 | Watusimoto | night |
| 01:30:22 | raptor | night |
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| 01:42:53 | Skybax | I went on a hike today! |
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| 09:20:30 | vs73nx | watusimoto: are you able to assist me with my GCI task |
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| 11:24:19 | vs73nx | before i leave id like to post a link to a little side project im working on... |
| 11:24:21 | vs73nx | https://github.com/vs37nx/legitJIT |
| 11:25:29 | vs73nx | its a JIT compiler that compiles bytecode on the fly, in a futile attempt to execute code faster than the code generated by the compiler |
| 11:25:38 | vs73nx | goodnight everyone! |
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| 14:54:30 | Nothing_Much | Hi everyone! |
| 15:06:50 | | Invisible has joined |
| 15:08:22 | Nothing_Much | watusimoto: Been busy lately? |
| 15:08:31 | | Watusimoto_ has joined |
| 15:12:05 | watusimoto | somewhat |
| 15:12:23 | watusimoto | I still need to finish that profile |
| 15:20:23 | Nothing_Much | watusimoto: yeah I noticed |
| 15:20:46 | Nothing_Much | it's publically viewable |
| 15:20:49 | watusimoto | It was marked as private |
| 15:20:58 | Nothing_Much | ah |
| 15:21:05 | Nothing_Much | hang on a sec |
| 15:21:13 | watusimoto | well, in any case, I have an image at home that should at least sort of finish it |
| 15:21:33 | Nothing_Much | http://gamejolt.com/games/arcade/bitfighter/20546/ |
| 15:21:36 | Nothing_Much | that's all I can see |
| 15:23:03 | watusimoto | looks a little bare :-) |
| 15:23:29 | Nothing_Much | yep, that might be the private part |
| 15:23:32 | Nothing_Much | or something |
| 15:23:46 | Nothing_Much | there's no download link yet though so that way you can keep polishing that page |
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| 15:24:13 | watusimoto | I'll try to finish it tonight |
| 15:24:31 | Nothing_Much | Alright |
| 15:26:33 | watusimoto | not only is it marked as hidden, the unhide option is grayed out because I haven't done the prerequisites |
| 15:27:17 | watusimoto | and the header shows this banner: |
| 15:27:18 | watusimoto | This game is currently hidden from public view. We recommend keeping it hidden until you have finished filling out the game's profile. Don't forget to unhide it when you're done though, or else it won't show in the game listings! |
| 15:27:36 | watusimoto | so... not my fault :-) |
| 15:32:58 | Nothing_Much | watusimoto: not a problem, the game itself isn't being shown, so... no prob. |
| 15:34:29 | Watusimoto_ | watusimoto: read the email sent to you |
| 15:35:07 | Nothing_Much | o.O |
| 15:35:12 | Nothing_Much | there's a fake watusimoto? |
| 15:35:46 | Watusimoto_ | no |
| 15:36:46 | Nothing_Much | oh |
| 15:36:51 | Nothing_Much | just a reminder? |
| 15:38:41 | watusimoto | well, there might be :-) |
| 15:39:15 | Watusimoto_ | different computer |
| 15:40:25 | Nothing_Much | right |
| 15:40:31 | watusimoto | different people on a different computer, actually |
| 15:41:54 | Nothing_Much | oh really? |
| 15:41:57 | Nothing_Much | who's Watusimoto_? |
| 15:42:24 | watusimoto | someone in my |
| 15:42:28 | watusimoto | apartment, apparently |
| 15:42:48 | Nothing_Much | oh my |
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| 16:44:35 | raptor | good day! |
| 16:47:06 | Nothing_Much | Hi raptor |
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| 17:05:46 | raptor | hi |
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| 17:12:47 | watusimoto | hi |
| 17:13:17 | watusimoto | I posted another bf question to so: |
| 17:13:18 | watusimoto | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/20883039/handling-incidental-access-to-external-resources-in-test-suite |
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| 17:14:10 | raptor | whoa... I just read a lot of the article about the NSA TAO parts catalog |
| 17:14:43 | watusimoto | you should see applebaum's presentation that drew from the same source material |
| 17:14:47 | watusimoto | it's pretty amazing. |
| 17:14:53 | watusimoto | let me find you a link |
| 17:14:54 | raptor | I finished watching that late last night... |
| 17:15:00 | watusimoto | ah, ok |
| 17:15:06 | raptor | that's pretty nuts |
| 17:15:18 | watusimoto | beaming in energy to activate passive electronics |
| 17:15:36 | raptor | yeah |
| 17:15:38 | raptor | lovely |
| 17:15:50 | watusimoto | at least that one has to be pretty targeted |
| 17:15:50 | raptor | I keep thinking microwave powerplant from simcity |
| 17:16:12 | watusimoto | its the indiscriminate nature of most of the collection that I object to |
| 17:16:14 | raptor | or the ideas to put one in orbit... and the jokes that follow about crossing its path |
| 17:16:27 | watusimoto | targeted, court-ordered surveilance seems less problemeatic |
| 17:16:34 | raptor | yes, that's my issue too |
| 17:17:45 | raptor | I also take issue with the general lack of trust that has been now created |
| 17:18:13 | watusimoto | due primarily to the indiscriminate data collection |
| 17:18:28 | watusimoto | really, most of the issues stem from that one thing |
| 17:18:28 | raptor | that, to me, seems to be one of the most fundamental problems since society is basically run on trust (or lack thereof) |
| 17:18:42 | raptor | yeah |
| 17:18:56 | watusimoto | the lack of trust in standards/protocols is there because they were weakened to facilitate indicsriminate collection |
| 17:19:14 | raptor | yep |
| 17:19:21 | watusimoto | if they were just targeting individuals, they have other means, such as those tiny chips |
| 17:19:34 | watusimoto | or whatever else was in that presentation |
| 17:20:29 | raptor | https://code.google.com/p/googlemock/ |
| 17:21:25 | watusimoto | I've looked at that before... not sure exactly how to apply that to the current problem |
| 17:21:41 | watusimoto | but there's probably a way! |
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| 17:22:26 | raptor | I think kaen had looked into it once |
| 17:22:37 | raptor | and even tried to apply it |
| 17:25:46 | watusimoto | I recall that as well |
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| 18:54:42 | raptor | look slike kaen has been active on github |
| 18:54:57 | raptor | so maybe we'll see him again sometime soon... |
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| 19:07:12 | Skybax | Goodmorning |
| 19:07:18 | raptor | good day! |
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| 19:39:25 | Nothing_Much | raptor: he's also been on reddit too |
| 19:39:35 | Nothing_Much | he just hasn't been on IRC |
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| 20:10:00 | Skybax_ | Why is Fordcars never online anymore lol |
| 20:12:06 | raptor | vacation? |
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| 20:41:19 | vs73nx | hi |
| 20:41:41 | raptor | hello |
| 20:46:53 | vs73nx | im haing some difficulty working on my task |
| 20:47:02 | vs73nx | also am iaable to get an extension? |
| 20:47:42 | raptor | sure |
| 20:47:51 | raptor | can you give me the url? |
| 20:48:42 | vs73nx | thats awkward... |
| 20:48:46 | vs73nx | it was reopened |
| 20:48:47 | vs73nx | https://www.google-melange.com/gci/task/view/google/gci2013/6603341224214528 |
| 20:49:23 | vs73nx | new year really stuffed up my coding schedule... |
| 20:50:24 | raptor | oh yeah, commone for vacation time :) |
| 20:50:27 | raptor | *common |
| 20:50:49 | vs73nx | so can anyone suggest another task doable in 3 days? |
| 20:51:14 | raptor | you should reclaim it |
| 20:51:21 | raptor | unless you want to attempt something else |
| 20:51:24 | vs73nx | cant |
| 20:51:31 | raptor | no? how come? |
| 20:51:36 | vs73nx | dunno |
| 20:52:01 | raptor | i can't assign it |
| 20:52:04 | vs73nx | probably somewhere in the FAQ/Rules or something forbidding me |
| 20:52:07 | raptor | until it is claimed... |
| 20:52:14 | raptor | I've seen people reclaim tasks |
| 20:54:09 | vs73nx | hmm no reclaim button |
| 20:54:16 | raptor | logged in? |
| 20:54:23 | vs73nx | yes but not when you run out of time |
| 20:54:28 | vs73nx | doh |
| 20:54:30 | vs73nx | no |
| 20:54:41 | vs73nx | i rolled back all my hg changes... |
| 20:54:45 | vs73nx | which is bad |
| 20:55:57 | raptor | a rollback still leaves the changes |
| 20:56:05 | raptor | but you have to commit again |
| 20:56:10 | raptor | you can see them with: hg diff |
| 20:56:20 | vs73nx | reclaimed |
| 20:56:57 | vs73nx | ok diff done |
| 20:59:17 | raptor | assigned |
| 21:03:05 | vs73nx | thanks |
| 21:03:14 | vs73nx | got a pastie of the code i changed |
| 21:03:15 | vs73nx | http://pastie.org/8594389 |
| 21:03:36 | raptor | as for a task done in three days - that depends on the task and your ability with the requirements |
| 21:03:37 | vs73nx | where would the code call my function getPlaylist? |
| 21:03:56 | vs73nx | ive done tasks in less than 3 days before |
| 21:04:05 | vs73nx | *one task |
| 21:04:20 | vs73nx | ive already done 4 tasks |
| 21:04:28 | vs73nx | and 5 would be nice |
| 21:04:41 | raptor | hmmm... LevelSource code is more Watusimoto's realm, but i'll take a look |
| 21:04:55 | vs73nx | isnt Watusimoto here? |
| 21:05:09 | raptor | 'here' is a relative term in IRC.. :) |
| 21:05:27 | vs73nx | hmmm |
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| 21:08:56 | vs73nx | FYI the code in the pastie is dodgy as |
| 21:10:12 | raptor | hmm... I'm going around in circles with this code. Watusimoto can you better direct vs73nx with the LevelSource classes? it looks like the game only uses them sometimes? |
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| 21:15:46 | vs73nx | raptor: well that wont happen in a whle :) |
| 21:15:55 | raptor | sigh |
| 21:16:03 | raptor | he architected the LevelSource classes |
| 21:16:12 | raptor | I'm not sure what his plan is with them... |
| 21:16:24 | vs73nx | do you at least know where the hosting is first initalised |
| 21:16:54 | raptor | what specifically? where the levels are loaded upon hosting? |
| 21:16:59 | vs73nx | yes |
| 21:18:08 | raptor | looks like main.cpp:1157 |
| 21:18:20 | fordcars | Hi |
| 21:18:20 | raptor | you'll see "new FolderLevelSource" there |
| 21:18:25 | raptor | hi fordcars |
| 21:19:30 | vs73nx | oh hello fordcars |
| 21:19:47 | fordcars | Hellu |
| 21:20:13 | raptor | fordcars: I need to talk to you about your zombie bot |
| 21:20:21 | fordcars | Uh ok? |
| 21:20:29 | fordcars | What did I do! |
| 21:21:02 | raptor | what mechanism does it use to increase the bot's speed? |
| 21:21:15 | raptor | because it's absolutely horrible at being predicted client-side... |
| 21:21:34 | raptor | so you can rarely tell where the bots are when they're going fast |
| 21:21:54 | fordcars | Really? I am using Lua Apis built in |
| 21:22:01 | fordcars | uh, one tick |
| 21:22:18 | raptor | hmmm... I wonder if it's a c++ problem.. |
| 21:22:33 | raptor | although sam686 did make some Move changes to make for better prediction |
| 21:23:13 | raptor | hah, you add 'turbo' mode every 20-30 seconds |
| 21:23:47 | vs73nx | when i make a 'new FileListLevelSource' it complains about how The type 'Zap::FileListLevelSource' must implement the inherited pure virtual method 'Zap::LevelSource::getLevelFileDescriptor' |
| 21:23:51 | vs73nx | hmmm |
| 21:23:58 | raptor | ah ha |
| 21:24:05 | raptor | then you must implement that |
| 21:24:46 | fordcars | bot:setThrust(zombSpeed, dirToGo) |
| 21:25:08 | raptor | ah ha... ok |
| 21:25:13 | raptor | let me look at that c++ method |
| 21:25:19 | fordcars | Sure :) |
| 21:25:36 | fordcars | It was fine in 018a though, is it because of the turbo? |
| 21:25:38 | raptor | is there ever a change where zombSpeed is greater than 1? |
| 21:25:43 | fordcars | Uh, nope |
| 21:25:47 | fordcars | Uh, wait |
| 21:26:04 | raptor | it does work ok - but when there are many players connected, all-of-a-sudden you can't tell where the bots are |
| 21:26:27 | fordcars | Wow |
| 21:26:32 | fordcars | That is interesting |
| 21:27:33 | fordcars | raptor, technically, yes it can go over 1, but only when the game timer hits 0 (or was changed during the game) |
| 21:28:03 | fordcars | But Bitfighter shouldn't allow bots to go faster than 1 since they are kindof players... |
| 21:29:54 | fordcars | I'll try it in the Contest Server |
| 21:38:12 | fordcars | Heh, bots seem fine when they're speed is higher than one (didn't test client prediction though) |
| 21:38:28 | raptor | do they actually go faster than 1? |
| 21:38:33 | fordcars | Nope |
| 21:38:50 | fordcars | Want to see it? |
| 21:39:02 | raptor | sure |
| 21:39:16 | fordcars | Ok, bot speed is 100 |
| 21:39:31 | raptor | hosting? |
| 21:40:17 | | Watusimoto has joined |
| 21:41:00 | fordcars | Yep |
| 21:41:25 | Watusimoto | hi |
| 21:41:29 | vs73nx | theitr not that much faster |
| 21:41:32 | vs73nx | hello |
| 21:42:20 | vs73nx | Watusimoto: have a look at this code... http://pastie.org/8594389 |
| 21:42:25 | vs73nx | its my gci task |
| 21:42:31 | vs73nx | dodgey as hell... |
| 21:42:51 | Watusimoto | ok |
| 21:43:33 | Watusimoto | Does it work? |
| 21:43:37 | vs73nx | no |
| 21:44:05 | vs73nx | yes it does segfault... |
| 21:44:17 | Watusimoto | what is the problem? |
| 21:44:24 | vs73nx | b ut my main issue is how to call getplaylist |
| 21:45:06 | vs73nx | my compile time error message |
| 21:45:07 | vs73nx | http://pastie.org/8594456 |
| 21:45:56 | Watusimoto | what does getplaylist do? |
| 21:46:01 | Watusimoto | and why do you want to call it? |
| 21:46:10 | vs73nx | loads all files ina playlist |
| 21:46:21 | vs73nx | well its more ok a placeholder right now |
| 21:46:26 | vs73nx | *of |
| 21:46:44 | Watusimoto | well. here is your compile problem: |
| 21:46:45 | Watusimoto | main.cpp:1160:98: error: cannot allocate an object of abstract type ‘Zap::FileListLevelSource’ |
| 21:46:45 | Watusimoto | new FileListLevelSource(settings->getLevelList(), settings->getFolderManager()->levelDir) |
| 21:46:47 | vs73nx | but once i can call it ill work on proper implementation |
| 21:47:39 | Watusimoto | do you understand that error message? |
| 21:52:15 | vs73nx | nope |
| 21:53:56 | Watusimoto | I put it into google, and the first hit explains it pretty well: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7352706/cannot-allocate-an-object-of-abstract-type-error |
| 21:54:18 | Watusimoto | the first answer provides a concise explanation |
| 21:55:36 | Watusimoto | the error message provides details as to what exactly the compiler found objectionable |
| 21:56:04 | Watusimoto | you need to implement a few more functions before you can compile |
| 21:57:40 | vs73nx | ok, thanks |
| 22:06:53 | vs73nx | ok compiles sucessfully |
| 22:07:15 | vs73nx | and amazingly no segfault |
| 22:13:05 | vs73nx | does anyone have any idea with what i shoud do after someone specifies the -levelplaylist option |
| 22:13:05 | vs73nx | is there a callback for all the commandline options |
| 22:16:27 | Watusimoto | cmd line params are defined here: |
| 22:16:36 | Watusimoto | ParamInfo paramDefs[] = { |
| 22:16:36 | Watusimoto | in GameSettings.cpp |
| 22:17:06 | Watusimoto | (amazingly, not an xmacro!) |
| 22:19:38 | Watusimoto | (yet) |
| 22:20:17 | Watusimoto | you can see how the other parameters work |
| 22:20:17 | Skybax_ | Hi fordcars! |
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| 22:21:39 | fordcars | Hi! |
| 22:24:26 | vs73nx | hello |
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| 22:35:24 | Watusimoto | hi raptor, quick question for you |
| 22:35:24 | Watusimoto | (if you are around) |
| 22:35:24 | raptor | hello |
| 22:35:24 | Watusimoto | ok |
| 22:35:24 | Watusimoto | so |
| 22:35:24 | raptor | buttons! |
| 22:35:24 | Watusimoto | in robotManager (RM) |
| 22:35:24 | Watusimoto | har har |
| 22:35:24 | Watusimoto | your scenario starts out with 2 bots being specified in a level file |
| 22:35:24 | raptor | actually - |
| 22:35:24 | raptor | that issue |
| 22:35:24 | raptor | i duplicated it on stock 019 |
| 22:35:24 | Watusimoto | yes, it's not new |
| 22:35:24 | Watusimoto | but still a problem (possibly) |
| 22:35:38 | Watusimoto | so let's say both bots are specified to be on team 1 |
| 22:35:38 | Watusimoto | 2 teams (0, 1) |
| 22:35:38 | raptor | if a player joins when a level is in progress -> not a problem |
| 22:35:38 | Watusimoto | hold on a sec |
| 22:35:38 | raptor | 0k |
| 22:35:38 | Watusimoto | we're not there yet |
| 22:35:38 | Watusimoto | what should happen if there are no players? |
| 22:35:38 | raptor | the bots should load as directed in the level file |
| 22:35:39 | Watusimoto | teams look like this: 0 BB? (0 denotes empty team) |
| 22:35:39 | raptor | if no players, server is idle? |
| 22:35:39 | raptor | yes |
| 22:35:42 | Watusimoto | well, leave that aside -- it's not the RM's problem |
| 22:35:44 | Watusimoto | ok |
| 22:35:51 | raptor | okey doke |
| 22:35:58 | raptor | i'lll shut up now |
| 22:36:07 | Watusimoto | so player joins -- if the host is doing bot leveling with 4 simulated players, what do teams look like? |
| 22:36:18 | Watusimoto | HB BB? |
| 22:36:38 | Watusimoto | or does autoleveling get disabled for this level? |
| 22:36:59 | Watusimoto | or if autleveling is with 6 players |
| 22:37:01 | raptor | there are two flags - maxplayers and forceteambalance |
| 22:37:01 | Watusimoto | HBB BBB? |
| 22:37:06 | Watusimoto | or HBBB BB? |
| 22:46:45 | Watusimoto | forceteambalance = autoleveling |
| 22:46:45 | raptor | ok |
| 22:46:45 | raptor | then HB BB |
| 22:46:45 | Watusimoto | for 4 players |
| 22:46:45 | raptor | 6 -> HBB BBB |
| 22:46:45 | Watusimoto | ok |
| 22:46:45 | Watusimoto | if max players is 2? |
| 22:46:45 | raptor | H B |
| 22:46:45 | Watusimoto | H B |
| 22:46:45 | Watusimoto | ok |
| 22:46:45 | Watusimoto | so what is the purpose of putting those two bots on one team? |
| 22:46:45 | Watusimoto | in none of those examples would it matter |
| 22:46:45 | raptor | wait wait |
| 22:46:45 | raptor | so |
| 22:46:45 | raptor | hmmm |
| 22:46:45 | vs73nx | cant connect to the master server |
| 22:46:45 | raptor | wait 30 seconds |
| 22:46:45 | Watusimoto | neither can I! |
| 22:46:45 | raptor | Watusimoto: ok, wait, i may have misunderstood - in all of your examples, you loaded with the 'Robot 0 bot.bot' lines in a level? |
| 22:46:45 | vs73nx | seems like its down |
| 22:46:45 | vs73nx | DDOS! |
| 22:46:45 | raptor | bitfighter.org has been flaky the last hour or so |
| 22:46:45 | fordcars | Yep |
| 22:46:45 | fordcars | Why is it often like this? |
| 22:46:45 | raptor | because computers are flaky |
| 22:46:45 | fordcars | :) |
| 22:46:45 | Watusimoto | in my examples there were two lines: robot 1 <level> |
| 22:46:45 | raptor | ok, so robot 1 |
| 22:46:45 | Watusimoto | that line twice |
| 22:46:45 | raptor | is the second team |
| 22:46:45 | Watusimoto | yes |
| 22:46:45 | raptor | basically, the that takes precedence |
| 22:46:46 | raptor | *that |
| 22:46:46 | raptor | so if maxplayers is 2, then: H BB |
| 22:46:46 | raptor | if 4, then HB BB (still fulfills the 2 on team 2 specified in the file) |
| 22:46:46 | raptor | if auto-balance and maxplayers is 2, then: HB BB |
| 22:46:46 | raptor | because it *must* do as the level say |
| 22:46:46 | Watusimoto | and when 6 players? |
| 22:46:46 | raptor | at least, I believe the level file should be authoritative |
| 22:46:46 | raptor | hmmm.... well |
| 22:46:46 | raptor | hmmm |
| 22:46:46 | raptor | now i'm thinking |
| 22:46:46 | raptor | i'm thinking that if the level designer intended a specific number of bots then... then what |
| 22:46:46 | raptor | then disable forced balance? |
| 22:46:46 | Watusimoto | I'm thinking soemthing different |
| 22:46:46 | raptor | because it seems to me that most use cases of adding the Robot file now are specifically on custom tailored maps that want just that number |
| 22:46:46 | raptor | *Robot line |
| 22:46:46 | Watusimoto | I'm thinking if autoleveling is on, bot counts/teams in the levelfile should be disregarded |
| 22:46:46 | Watusimoto | I'm thinking in fact that the robots line should perhaps change altogether |
| 22:46:46 | Watusimoto | I'm thinking that it should specify a mix of bots; 25% s_bot, 75% eliza_bot |
| 22:46:46 | Watusimoto | something like that |
| 22:46:46 | raptor | ok, i can see that case |
| 22:46:46 | raptor | that might be a neat feature to add... |
| 22:46:46 | Watusimoto | or even 1 elizabot, with the rest being default_bot |
| 22:46:46 | raptor | but I can also see the raw quantities being useful |
| 22:47:03 | Watusimoto | because robots in levelfiles don;t really make sense with the new bot management |
| 22:47:03 | raptor | and in fact are useful because that's how every one has done them (in our limited map making pool) |
| 22:47:03 | raptor | they do on custom maps like that zombApocalypse |
| 22:47:03 | Watusimoto | even with the zombie levels, it is much more useful to handle them via levelgen |
| 22:47:38 | Watusimoto | I could see the following situations as being useful: |
| 22:47:38 | raptor | i think i agree with that - |
| 22:47:38 | raptor | i haven't seen anyone use it though, in 019 - does it work as intended? |
| 22:47:38 | Watusimoto | 1) there is one elizabot, other bots are defaultbots |
| 22:47:38 | raptor | I know kaen put a lot of work into it |
| 22:47:40 | Watusimoto | [does what work as intended?] |
| 22:47:45 | Watusimoto | 2) each team gets a repairbot |
| 22:48:49 | Watusimoto | a zombie level has 100 zombiebots, all on one team, all humans (and added s_bots) go on the other team |
| 22:48:57 | Watusimoto | (sorry that was 3)) |
| 22:49:42 | raptor | yes, and all of those cases can be handled current with the Robot line |
| 22:49:46 | raptor | *currently |
| 22:49:49 | Watusimoto | 1 and 2 kind of work with our current solution |
| 22:49:53 | Watusimoto | 3 kind of does not |
| 22:50:42 | raptor | we already have a NoBots special |
| 22:50:42 | Watusimoto | yes, that should probably stick around |
| 22:50:42 | Watusimoto | that seems less problematic |
| 22:50:47 | raptor | yes, but it is indicative of the authority of the level file |
| 22:52:41 | raptor | which is why i suggested disabling auto-leveling if a Robot line was detected |
| 22:52:41 | Watusimoto | so go back to the original scenario, with 2 bots on team 1, and say the presence of the bot lines disabled autoleveling |
| 22:52:41 | Watusimoto | could I do "more bots"? |
| 22:52:57 | raptor | yes |
| 22:54:11 | raptor | but maybe, guaranteeing (spelled right?) what the level says is all that it needs to meet |
| 22:54:11 | raptor | so auto-leveling would further add to it |
| 22:55:31 | Watusimoto | so in the 4 player variant, where teams are H BB, and I do more bots, I should get HB BB. What if I do more bots again? |
| 22:55:31 | Watusimoto | HBB BBB? or HBB BB |
| 22:56:21 | raptor | HBB BBB |
| 22:56:21 | raptor | because that's what the player expects and is consistent |
| 22:56:21 | raptor | and they've consciously decided to change the bot layout of the initially stacked level |
| 22:56:31 | raptor | argh, i can't reopen closed tabs in firefox... |
| 22:56:56 | Watusimoto | so once they enter morebots, autoleveling turns on? |
| 22:57:08 | raptor | i thought it turns off |
| 22:57:20 | raptor | no wait, that's what I programmed |
| 22:57:29 | raptor | what does it do now? |
| 22:57:32 | Watusimoto | morebots and lessbots are leveling commands -- they activate autoleeling |
| 22:57:52 | Watusimoto | /addbot and /kickbot disable it |
| 22:58:17 | raptor | ok, but menus maintain it with thrrent team-multiple |
| 23:02:43 | raptor | *the current |
| 23:02:43 | Watusimoto | I think so (if I understand properly) |
| 23:02:43 | Watusimoto | morebots/lessbots always leave the teams with an even number of players |
| 23:02:43 | Watusimoto | (they are the menu commands) |
| 23:02:43 | raptor | i'd say keep that consistent |
| 23:02:43 | Watusimoto | ok, so when I start adding bots, which gots will get added? s_bots? or whatever was in the file? |
| 23:02:43 | Watusimoto | (it never ends!!) |
| 23:02:43 | raptor | the server default, i think |
| 23:02:43 | raptor | it never does |
| 23:02:43 | Watusimoto | ok, in our original scenario, what if there are 4 human players? |
| 23:02:43 | Watusimoto | HHH BBH? |
| 23:02:43 | raptor | yep |
| 23:02:43 | Watusimoto | so if you do a more bots, you get HHHB BBBH |
| 23:02:43 | raptor | yep |
| 23:02:51 | Watusimoto | but then do a lessbots, you are back to HHH BBH |
| 23:02:51 | raptor | yuppers |
| 23:02:51 | Watusimoto | but... which bot gets kicked? |
| 23:02:51 | Watusimoto | the levelbot or the added s_bot? |
| 23:02:51 | raptor | then the admin must shuffle |
| 23:02:51 | raptor | latest bot |
| 23:02:51 | Watusimoto | (currently it is arbitrary, but probably the s_bot will go) |
| 23:02:51 | raptor | huh, i never thought about that... |
| 23:02:51 | raptor | i think it just does the last bot now |
| 23:02:51 | Watusimoto | we no longer track "latest bot", and I think, never did, despite the documentation |
| 23:02:51 | raptor | we could always code a Special HumansOnOneTeam |
| 23:02:51 | Watusimoto | I think it has always been arbitrary |
| 23:02:51 | raptor | oh really? |
| 23:02:51 | Watusimoto | I think we should do that |
| 23:02:51 | raptor | ok |
| 23:02:51 | raptor | heh - i was actually just joking |
| 23:02:51 | raptor | really? |
| 23:02:51 | Watusimoto | it's on our task list |
| 23:03:06 | Watusimoto | https://code.google.com/p/bitfighter/issues/detail?id=145 |
| 23:03:26 | raptor | huh, so it is |
| 23:03:28 | Watusimoto | doesn' |
| 23:03:58 | Watusimoto | t mean we have to do it, but it is there |
| 23:04:11 | Watusimoto | Dec 2011 |
| 23:04:28 | Watusimoto | so it's been there a while! |
| 23:04:49 | Watusimoto | hadn't thought about a special |
| 23:05:34 | Watusimoto | added the special idea to the case notes |
| 23:05:47 | raptor | i was completely joking |
| 23:05:47 | raptor | but ok |
| 23:05:49 | raptor | sounds good to me! |
| 23:07:26 | Watusimoto | :-) |
| 23:08:16 | Watusimoto | ok, so we're playing, and autoleveling is on |
| 23:08:34 | Watusimoto | we start a game as before and get HH BB |
| 23:09:02 | Watusimoto | now another H joins... do we have HHH BB or HHH BBB? (i.e. is autoleveling now disabled?) |
| 23:09:10 | raptor | so far this sounds lke the most extensive test to date... |
| 23:09:35 | raptor | depends what max players is |
| 23:09:48 | raptor | no wait, autoleveling is on |
| 23:10:03 | raptor | on as in, server setting? and not from menus |
| 23:10:32 | Watusimoto | well, on is on. the server setting sets the initial value, then it can be altered with the menu commands |
| 23:10:40 | Watusimoto | if it starts off, and you turn it on, it stays on |
| 23:10:40 | raptor | if server setting, then yes HHH BBB |
| 23:10:48 | raptor | ok |
| 23:11:18 | Watusimoto | so why if you started with 3 players would the teams be HHH BB? |
| 23:12:02 | raptor | i was assuming you're added to team 0 because it comes first |
| 23:12:10 | raptor | however, there is the player rating |
| 23:12:17 | raptor | so you could be put on the other team |
| 23:12:28 | raptor | if your rating is abyssmal |
| 23:12:44 | raptor | sorry, 'threat level' |
| 23:13:32 | Watusimoto | ok, ignore that for the moment, because that will make the converstation impossible |
| 23:14:38 | Watusimoto | if the levelfile says 2 bots on team 1, and there are 3 human players, teams will look like HHH BB, but if there are two human players and a 3rd joins you get HHH BBB |
| 23:14:53 | Watusimoto | that's the odd situation I'm inquiring about |
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| 23:17:26 | raptor | yes that's right |
| 23:18:14 | Watusimoto | that seems wrong to me |
| 23:18:19 | raptor | honestly, of auto-leveling is on and maxplayers is <= 4, then adding a new player could go to either team, I think (because of threat level). But yes, a bot should fill the empty spot |
| 23:18:24 | raptor | *if |
| 23:18:38 | Watusimoto | "Emacs has everything except a good editor" |
| 23:18:57 | raptor | hahaha |
| 23:19:01 | Watusimoto | right, so why not fill the empty slot when the game starts? |
| 23:19:10 | Watusimoto | if there are 3 players already playing? |
| 23:20:43 | raptor | yes, that's what I think |
| 23:21:32 | Watusimoto | ok, what if autoleveling is set at 6 players, and there are two humas at the beginning? |
| 23:21:46 | Watusimoto | HH BB or HHB BBB or HHBB BB? |
| 23:23:24 | Watusimoto | I think HHB BBB |
| 23:23:46 | Watusimoto | but two of the Bs on team 1 are whatever script the level specfiied |
| 23:24:00 | Watusimoto | and they should be the last to be kicked with kickbots or lessbots |
| 23:27:04 | raptor | i agree |
| 23:27:16 | Watusimoto | ok, here's a new concept that should make things clearer |
| 23:27:33 | Watusimoto | humans are not subject to autoleveling |
| 23:27:48 | Watusimoto | I think we should have 2 classes of bots -- locked and unlocked |
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| 23:28:09 | Watusimoto | locked bots are those included in the level file, and are only touched when there is no alternative |
| 23:28:22 | Watusimoto | and unlocked bots are those added with /addbots and morebots |
| 23:28:30 | Watusimoto | actually, 3 classes |
| 23:28:36 | Watusimoto | locked, semilocked and unlocked |
| 23:28:43 | Watusimoto | locked come from the levefile |
| 23:28:50 | Watusimoto | semilocked from /addbot |
| 23:28:56 | Watusimoto | unlocked from /morebots |
| 23:29:06 | Watusimoto | rather just "morebots" |
| 23:29:26 | Watusimoto | and when bots are removed, unlocked go first, then semilocked, then finally locked |
| 23:29:40 | Watusimoto | locked bots do not change teams except via explicit command |
| 23:29:55 | Watusimoto | actually, bots never change team, so skip that |
| 23:30:22 | Watusimoto | other than that, everything works as it does now |
| 23:31:19 | Watusimoto | 2 humans and 5 level-specified bots on team 1 you get; HHBBB bbbbb (b denoting level-specified bot, B denoting autolevel bot) |
| 23:31:30 | Watusimoto | (assuming autoleveling on) |
| 23:31:48 | Watusimoto | lessbots ==> HHBB bbbb |
| 23:31:57 | Watusimoto | morebots ==> HHBBB bbbbB |
| 23:32:05 | Watusimoto | less bots ==> HHBB bbbb |
| 23:32:06 | Watusimoto | etc. |
| 23:32:46 | vs73nx | Watusimoto: how would i get the value of a commandline arg. EG "levelplaylist" |
| 23:33:46 | raptor | ok |
| 23:34:08 | raptor | I wonder if there should be a Special BotsNoBalance |
| 23:34:41 | Watusimoto | vs73nx: via the poorly named string GameSettings::getString(ParamId paramId) command |
| 23:34:44 | raptor | so if auto-leveling were on (which we want to be the default?) and you load zombApocalypse |
| 23:34:55 | vs73nx | ok |
| 23:35:04 | raptor | it doesn't look like this: HHBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB |
| 23:35:20 | Watusimoto | how are bots added? via levelgen or via levelfile? |
| 23:36:06 | Watusimoto | oh, and if a levelgen starts mucking about with bots, every bot becomes equal; we assume the levelgen is handling things |
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| 23:38:44 | Watusimoto | we use the special AllBotsOnOneTeam |
| 23:39:46 | Watusimoto | oh, but what if you wanted to add an s_bot to the human team? I guess you'd use /addbot, which could perhaps override that special |
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| 23:42:36 | vs73nx | is there a hosting callback somewhere in the code? |
| 23:43:15 | vs73nx | whered id call make a new FileListLevelSource(settings->getPlaylist(), "test.txt") |
| 23:43:32 | vs73nx | tline 1157 is for the dedicated server |
| 23:45:08 | raptor | in that scenario bots are added via level line |
| 23:45:35 | Watusimoto | we create our folderLevelSource in a couple of places; you'd want to do a check against the cmd line params to decide if you want to create a different levelsource |
| 23:45:39 | Watusimoto | new FolderLevelSource(...) |
| 23:46:09 | Watusimoto | it might be best to create a function somewhere (static function on LevelSource?) that makes the decision |
| 23:46:48 | Watusimoto | raptor: if autoleveling were on, and you said 10 bots on team 1, you'd get: HHBBBBBBBB bbbbbbbbbb |
| 23:46:57 | Watusimoto | which is not what you want |
| 23:47:29 | Watusimoto | your choices would be to 1) have levelgen manage them or 2) use the AllBotsOnOneteam special |
| 23:47:49 | Watusimoto | (or maybe AllBotsOnTeam 1 level line??) |
| 23:49:07 | raptor | Watusimoto: ok |
| 23:49:29 | Watusimoto | I assume the current zombie levels use levelgens currently, so we're not breaking anything |
| 23:49:36 | raptor | no, no one uses levelgens |
| 23:49:39 | raptor | for adding bots |
| 23:49:49 | raptor | everyone does it via Robot line |
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