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| 00:09:39 | | fordcars has joined |
| 00:10:13 | fordcars | raptor, do you know what data type a function is? (I would put a function identifier inside an array to call it later, for a timer) |
| 00:10:24 | fordcars | *In java |
| 00:10:43 | raptor | in java, a function is not a data type, but it can return a type |
| 00:10:49 | fordcars | Oh |
| 00:11:03 | fordcars | But how do I call it later then? As a string? |
| 00:11:13 | fordcars | array[i] = foo() |
| 00:11:24 | raptor | in java? |
| 00:11:29 | fordcars | Yeah |
| 00:11:31 | raptor | heh |
| 00:11:37 | fordcars | I would maybe return the function? |
| 00:11:43 | raptor | ok then - you have been spoiled by Lua |
| 00:11:47 | fordcars | Haha |
| 00:12:29 | raptor | so luckily in Java you can still do that |
| 00:12:34 | fordcars | Do what? |
| 00:12:37 | raptor | not so in c/c++ |
| 00:12:44 | raptor | convert from strings <-> functions |
| 00:12:49 | fordcars | Oh ok |
| 00:12:55 | raptor | in java it is called 'reflection' |
| 00:13:12 | raptor | here is a simple intro: http://www.mkyong.com/java/how-to-use-reflection-to-call-java-method-at-runtime/ |
| 00:13:14 | fordcars | I don't think it will wokr though |
| 00:13:29 | raptor | and here is the docs: http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/reflect/index.html |
| 00:13:41 | raptor | will what work? |
| 00:13:44 | fordcars | It is for a Java-kindof API for a game, but it is not java and only has basic functions :/ |
| 00:13:50 | fordcars | It is not Java :/ |
| 00:14:05 | raptor | in java you can get teh string name of any class or function using the reflection API |
| 00:14:09 | raptor | ah |
| 00:14:15 | raptor | well, then I don't know.. |
| 00:14:22 | fordcars | Yeah :p |
| 00:14:44 | fordcars | I am trying to make a timer, createTImer(int ms, functionToLaunch) |
| 00:15:11 | fordcars | Then append it (I know I should make a timer class or something, but bleh, never really used classes before |
| 00:15:33 | raptor | in Java? |
| 00:15:33 | fordcars | I get I'll have to hardcode the function for now |
| 00:15:41 | raptor | I can't tell what you're programming in |
| 00:15:44 | fordcars | Sorry |
| 00:16:08 | fordcars | It is a randomly invented scripting language |
| 00:16:39 | raptor | then I can't help at all! |
| 00:16:45 | fordcars | Very little documentation, barely any libraries, but data types and syntax are similar to Java |
| 00:16:48 | fordcars | Haha |
| 00:16:57 | fordcars | I know, sorry :P |
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| 00:43:41 | raptor | heading home! laters! |
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| 04:53:39 | Skybax | I'm totally chatting with Quartz' mom on Steam right now |
| 04:54:42 | Skybax | Woo |
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| 16:20:47 | kaen | morning all |
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| 16:50:55 | raptor | good morning! |
| 16:51:07 | raptor | KAEN IS HERE |
| 16:51:40 | raptor | welcome back! |
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| 17:11:47 | kaen | hi :) |
| 17:12:27 | YoshiSmb_ | hi kaen! |
| 17:12:32 | raptor | hi! |
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| 17:13:09 | raptor | I tried cloning two of your github repos yesterday, then using hg-git |
| 17:13:49 | raptor | I stole the github account of 'raptor' |
| 17:15:13 | kaen | heh |
| 17:15:24 | kaen | were there problems with pleiades? |
| 17:16:55 | raptor | there was one problem - the 'content' and 'levelgen' field for levels was set to 'text'... it needed to be mediumtext (sam686 found that issue) |
| 17:17:15 | raptor | I was hoping to fix that in my pleiades fork - but I got lost in cakephp |
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| 17:17:52 | kaen | yeah.... cakephp turned out to be horrible |
| 17:18:13 | raptor | but we all love pleiades |
| 17:18:30 | raptor | I also wrote another plugin for stardust, but I'm not sure it's up to your standards |
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| 17:18:54 | kaen | heh, "standards" |
| 17:19:09 | kaen | cake is near the bottom of every benchmark on http://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/ |
| 17:20:04 | raptor | aww sadness |
| 17:20:30 | kaen | it was pretty good for getting up and running, but I would make a different decision with what I know now. |
| 17:20:32 | raptor | 'Go'?? |
| 17:20:52 | kaen | compiled language with c-style linkage |
| 17:20:55 | kaen | it's crazy fast |
| 17:21:06 | raptor | that's the Google one? |
| 17:21:10 | kaen | yep |
| 17:21:12 | raptor | has it matured that much?? |
| 17:21:31 | kaen | I believe so |
| 17:21:57 | kaen | it's been fast like that since I first played with it |
| 17:22:14 | kaen | you can compile the entire runtime on my laptop in like 15 seconds |
| 17:22:22 | kaen | (with the go compiler) |
| 17:22:28 | raptor | oh wow |
| 17:23:15 | kaen | the real downside is the wonky way that you have to do "classes" |
| 17:23:24 | kaen | i.e. you don't, you just implement interfaces |
| 17:23:40 | raptor | sounds like the worst of the java world... |
| 17:24:13 | kaen | but concurrency is a language primitive, which is a big part of why it benchmarks so well as a web framework |
| 17:24:24 | raptor | what do you think you would use now for pleiades? |
| 17:24:43 | kaen | I'm not sure. rails looks better and better to me all the time |
| 17:24:56 | kaen | I definitely am never voluntarily writing PHP again though |
| 17:25:22 | raptor | oh wow - 'go' is even distributed with openSUSE now.. huh |
| 17:25:28 | raptor | it's the semicolons... |
| 17:25:35 | kaen | it's the dollar signs |
| 17:25:49 | raptor | I had a choice between php and python the other day - chose python and glad I ded |
| 17:25:51 | raptor | *did |
| 17:26:10 | kaen | ooh python sounds like it'd be fun |
| 17:27:35 | watusimoto | Servers Online: 7 |
| 17:27:35 | watusimoto | Players Online: �������, Niksan |
| 17:27:41 | watusimoto | ugh... I thought we'd fixed that |
| 17:27:45 | watusimoto | and hi raptor |
| 17:27:46 | raptor | yay utf8! |
| 17:27:48 | watusimoto | and welcome back kaen |
| 17:27:49 | raptor | hi watusimoto |
| 17:27:52 | watusimoto | and hi everyone else! |
| 17:27:54 | kaen | hi :) |
| 17:28:07 | raptor | watusimoto: see here: http://bitfighter.org/bitfighterStatus.json |
| 17:28:09 | watusimoto | python sucks |
| 17:28:23 | raptor | compared to what? |
| 17:28:24 | watusimoto | indeed |
| 17:28:24 | raptor | php? |
| 17:28:27 | watusimoto | no |
| 17:28:28 | raptor | nonsense |
| 17:28:34 | watusimoto | php probably sucks worse |
| 17:28:44 | watusimoto | that's the problem... they all suck |
| 17:29:07 | kaen | have you tried ruby? |
| 17:29:08 | watusimoto | python is ok for small projects, I guess |
| 17:29:11 | raptor | nothing will ever beat a direct-synaptic-pathway-linkage to the brain |
| 17:29:14 | watusimoto | I'm working with it as we speak! |
| 17:29:18 | watusimoto | I hate ruby! |
| 17:29:23 | kaen | ruby is my hope for the future |
| 17:29:24 | kaen | hah! |
| 17:29:25 | raptor | are you working with 'ruby' or 'rails' ? |
| 17:29:28 | watusimoto | yes |
| 17:29:40 | watusimoto | with lots of javascript thrown in, just for fun |
| 17:30:02 | raptor | well i don't have much experience with ruby, but so far python is less horrible than others I've tried |
| 17:30:16 | raptor | since i think 'less horrible' is the correct metric? |
| 17:30:19 | watusimoto | one of my big problems with al lthe dynamic languages is that it's really hard to figure out if your code works without trying all pathways |
| 17:30:46 | kaen | I'm probably a little brain damaged on this topic, because I also love javascript ... |
| 17:30:58 | watusimoto | so I had a JS syntax error tonight, and the program appeared to work, even though it didn't parse. Until I tried to run that particular codepath, that is |
| 17:31:23 | kaen | but yes, that's my biggest hang up with dynamic languages -- the lack of safety |
| 17:31:38 | watusimoto | that explained some other random failure... the browser simply stopped parsing when it hit that error, my other functions were not loaded, and firebug didn't even warn me |
| 17:31:49 | watusimoto | wtf? |
| 17:32:00 | kaen | that's why most dynamic language devs consider unit tests to be mandatory |
| 17:32:05 | watusimoto | at least python runs through a compiler first, so it catches some stuff |
| 17:32:20 | watusimoto | unit tests are good, but hard when you are writing lots of front-end code |
| 17:32:24 | raptor | i was about to say... i haven't actually seen many of these problems with python... |
| 17:32:45 | watusimoto | especially when your target changes quickly |
| 17:33:08 | watusimoto | and writing lots of tests somewhat undermines the "ease" of using a "dynamic" language in the first place |
| 17:33:21 | kaen | definitely |
| 17:33:31 | watusimoto | and you need to test a lot of things that a compiler would catch, so you write lots of tedius tests |
| 17:33:39 | raptor | so that means... python! |
| 17:34:13 | kaen | c++11 auto is my new favorite thing |
| 17:34:15 | watusimoto | python and perl both at least have the compiler thing going. Perl gives you a tiny bit of type safety |
| 17:34:24 | raptor | I've had several recent good experiences with python |
| 17:34:28 | watusimoto | but why no dymaic languages where you declare your types? |
| 17:34:34 | raptor | perl gives you a tiny bit of obfuscation |
| 17:34:38 | raptor | for free |
| 17:34:39 | watusimoto | how often, in practice, do you want to switch types in mid block? |
| 17:35:08 | watusimoto | perl is great for short progs, is worse than python for med. progs, is suicide for anything larger |
| 17:35:34 | raptor | and that is why openSUSE rewrote their entire package building system in ruby... to move away from perl |
| 17:35:41 | raptor | but i still can't comment on ruby |
| 17:35:49 | watusimoto | type safety can detect a huge number of problems, and gives you better compilation |
| 17:36:10 | kaen | I like that idea of a dynamic language with explicit typing |
| 17:36:25 | watusimoto | are there any? |
| 17:36:29 | watusimoto | I can't think of a single one |
| 17:36:46 | raptor | you mean you don't like the '===' operator that php provides?? shame! /snark |
| 17:36:54 | watusimoto | js has that too! |
| 17:37:12 | watusimoto | my only complaint is not long enough |
| 17:37:19 | watusimoto | I want a ==== operator |
| 17:37:36 | kaen | I don't even remember that last time I used == in js and meant it. |
| 17:38:45 | kaen | watusimoto, I'm still racking my brain and closest thing I can think of is 'auto' in c++11 :P |
| 17:39:34 | watusimoto | It looks like the unicode player is at Lysva Polytechnical College in Russia |
| 17:39:34 | raptor | i don't even know what that is.. |
| 17:39:46 | raptor | we like tech schools! |
| 17:39:47 | watusimoto | me neither |
| 17:40:01 | watusimoto | I wanted to see what his name looks like in-game |
| 17:40:09 | kaen | haskell-ish |
| 17:40:16 | kaen | because it uses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindley%E2%80%93Milner_type_inference |
| 17:40:40 | kaen | going out, back soon! |
| 17:40:46 | raptor | later |
| 17:40:52 | watusimoto | bye |
| 17:41:01 | raptor | watusimoto: i got into the server |
| 17:41:16 | watusimoto | do a screen cap of the scoreboard! |
| 17:41:39 | raptor | got it: http://imagebin.org/287999 |
| 17:42:32 | watusimoto | ha, ok |
| 17:42:39 | watusimoto | well, I gotta go |
| 17:42:50 | watusimoto | I'm entertaining work visitors... will be back on later |
| 17:42:56 | raptor | later |
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| 18:40:23 | kaen | back |
| 18:40:56 | kaen | I'm going to rewrite /stats/ with angular.js |
| 18:41:03 | raptor | hi |
| 18:41:06 | kaen | hi |
| 18:41:10 | raptor | angular?? never heard of it |
| 18:41:14 | kaen | it's pretty great |
| 18:41:50 | kaen | js framework with data binding. you say where your data goes and how it gets to the client, then angular does all the binding, event handling, and injecting |
| 18:42:11 | raptor | all client-side? |
| 18:42:23 | kaen | yep, I'll keep the php stuff around as the JSON endpoint |
| 18:42:32 | raptor | ah.. that's a good idea |
| 18:42:54 | kaen | it's exactly what you and I talked about when I very first did /stats/, but in a framework backed by google |
| 18:43:22 | raptor | wow, that seems like a long time ago... |
| 18:43:39 | kaen | and I'm applying for real jobs, and lots of them want angular experience, so it'll be a good portfolio piece :P |
| 18:43:59 | raptor | two stones with one bird! |
| 18:44:10 | kaen | yes exactly! |
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| 18:47:40 | raptor | well, now that i got my 'raptor' username on github... i'm willing to give it try again |
| 18:48:47 | kaen | that's pretty cool, was it taken before? |
| 18:49:21 | raptor | yeah, i contacted github support and told them it hadn't been updated in 5 years - they promptly deleted it, then said "grab it fast!" |
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| 18:50:15 | kaen | that's awesome! |
| 18:50:48 | kaen | I tried to do the same thing for "kaen" on nethack.alt.org (zero games played, no logins for like four years) but paxed wouldn't touch it :/ |
| 18:52:23 | raptor | aww sadness |
| 18:52:50 | raptor | ask again next year, I figure |
| 18:52:56 | raptor | patience usually wins the game.. |
| 18:53:59 | raptor | oh, so, if you didn't hear - I went to 'Bitcon 2014' |
| 18:54:20 | raptor | basically Quartz showed up at bobdaduck's house here in UT, and they invited me and thread |
| 18:54:59 | kaen | oh cool! |
| 18:55:24 | raptor | and apparently I pronounce your username differently than everyone else - I pronounce it like 'keen', the others 'cane' |
| 18:55:35 | raptor | so the big question - how do you say it in your head? |
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| 18:57:09 | kaen | I flip-flop |
| 18:57:30 | kaen | it's more like kay-en all mooshed into one syllable |
| 18:57:39 | kaen | but other times I think "keen" |
| 18:57:44 | kaen | almost never "cane" |
| 18:57:55 | raptor | i don't mind being wrong - but I guess I usually pronounce teh 'ae' like that weird greek letter |
| 18:58:07 | kaen | see, that's what I was thinking! |
| 18:58:20 | kaen | it's taken from Master Kaen, the hardest boss in nethack |
| 18:58:29 | kaen | which I never knew how to pronounce myself :) |
| 18:58:31 | raptor | haha, awesome |
| 18:58:47 | raptor | kæn |
| 18:59:23 | kaen | I even looked up the pronunciation of that character (because I'd never heard it pronounced) |
| 19:00:09 | kaen | I like keen way better than cane |
| 19:00:45 | kaen | it makes think of Kane the wrestler |
| 19:00:51 | kaen | makes me* |
| 19:00:58 | raptor | haha |
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| 19:16:37 | raptor | ok, looks like i was wrong: æ is a latin diphthong |
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| 19:48:00 | kaen | raptor: python -c 'import antigravity' |
| 19:48:04 | kaen | enjoy! |
| 19:48:22 | raptor | hahaha, no way |
| 19:48:53 | kaen | they have a couple of those |
| 19:49:02 | kaen | from future import braces |
| 19:49:12 | kaen | some other stuff, I don't remember |
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| 20:11:49 | raptor | heading out for some errands, later! |
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| 21:39:39 | kaen | man, I left myself a mess in bfstats |
| 21:39:55 | kaen | I couldn't even find the project page on google code at fist x_x |
| 21:40:05 | raptor | haha |
| 21:40:31 | kaen | it's missing a db function, the seed script is out of whack, the aggregator and trigger aren't up to date, it's nuts |
| 21:44:05 | raptor | that's frequently how I feel about a lot of my old code.. |
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| 22:21:20 | raptor | I love it when they put 'gluten free' on a jar of molasses |
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| 22:40:34 | raptor | Watusimoto: are you around? |
| 22:40:46 | Watusimoto | sort of |
| 22:40:52 | Watusimoto | are you? |
| 22:40:58 | raptor | perhaps |
| 22:41:18 | raptor | I've been thinking about the mess that is our render() system |
| 22:42:36 | Watusimoto | don't |
| 22:42:43 | Watusimoto | that's the answer |
| 22:42:48 | raptor | we have several ways to render an object: 1. in-game 2. in-editor 3. in-editor preview 4. other?? |
| 22:42:56 | raptor | we ahve render() and renderEditor() |
| 22:43:18 | raptor | oh, renderDock() |
| 22:43:23 | raptor | 4. editor dock |
| 22:43:41 | Watusimoto | ok |
| 22:44:03 | raptor | and I'm wondering if there's a way to simplify |
| 22:44:11 | raptor | like render(RenderContext) |
| 22:44:36 | raptor | one render method to rull them all |
| 22:44:40 | raptor | rule |
| 22:44:55 | Watusimoto | so instead of renderEditor, you'd call render(Editor) |
| 22:45:06 | raptor | but if you and I are questionably here, then maybe this is a discussion for a later time |
| 22:45:07 | raptor | yes... |
| 22:46:10 | Watusimoto | no its fine |
| 22:46:37 | Watusimoto | I think from the caller's POV, it would not be an imrpovement |
| 22:46:44 | raptor | yeah, i guess it would be like the idle(Path) |
| 22:46:48 | Watusimoto | from the callee's POV, it might be (for some objects) |
| 22:47:07 | | Flynnn has joined |
| 22:47:12 | Watusimoto | and from an organizational POV (understanding what's going on), it might be good |
| 22:47:31 | Watusimoto | so I guess it would be an improvement, but it's hard to say how much |
| 22:47:44 | Watusimoto | you could take what you think is a good example, and implement it |
| 22:48:03 | Watusimoto | then from renderEditor, call newrender(editor) and see |
| 22:49:04 | raptor | also, i'm thinking about adding a method to game.h: isEditor or something |
| 22:49:29 | raptor | because right now we use: !static_cast<ClientGame*>(getGame())->isConnectedToServer() to see if we're in the editor |
| 22:50:04 | raptor | but it feels reminiscent of something from the past... |
| 22:50:16 | raptor | like we used to have it but removed it... or something |
| 22:51:02 | Watusimoto | you can get the editor method by looking at the UI stack now |
| 22:51:10 | Watusimoto | there's a method to do that |
| 22:51:29 | Watusimoto | editorManager->isIn<EditorUI>() |
| 22:51:31 | Watusimoto | something like that |
| 22:52:08 | raptor | yes, but then i'd need to include UI.h classes in game object classes |
| 22:52:22 | Watusimoto | yes |
| 22:52:37 | Watusimoto | well, if you are passing a render context, you won't need to |
| 22:52:49 | raptor | yes |
| 22:53:10 | raptor | that's what started this mess - i was using that hack to solve rendering in different contexts with the game objects |
| 22:54:34 | Watusimoto | what started it? getting rid of that static cast? |
| 22:59:40 | raptor | no - having to render things differently in editor vs preview mode vs in-game |
| 23:00:18 | raptor | and so i added that static cast to check for the connection |
| 23:00:26 | raptor | thereby seeing if we were in-game or not |
| 23:00:52 | raptor | i've used it 4 or 5 times now and it's starting to leave a bad taste in my mouth |
| 23:02:22 | Watusimoto | where do you use it? |
| 23:02:54 | raptor | forcefield, lineitem, textitem, ship |
| 23:03:48 | | Flynnn Quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) |
| 23:05:07 | Watusimoto | ok, so passing a render context would get rid of it, right? |
| 23:05:20 | raptor | yes, that is one idea i had |
| 23:05:37 | raptor | it would get rid of the render() renderEditor() renderDock() methods |
| 23:05:53 | raptor | another idea is to add a renderEditorPreview() method |
| 23:06:10 | raptor | but maybe... maybe a refactor like this should wait for after 019a anyways |
| 23:07:33 | Watusimoto | yes, it should probably wait... but you can plan it now |
| 23:08:04 | raptor | i guess i'm looking for ideas because it seems messy |
| 23:08:24 | raptor | maybe we need a BfObjectRender class |
| 23:08:28 | Watusimoto | interesting vid, if you are interested in hacking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pQ4_AH6vks |
| 23:09:08 | raptor | ha! yeah, I saw that one |
| 23:09:11 | raptor | it's funny |
| 23:09:17 | Watusimoto | he's a good speaker |
| 23:09:40 | Watusimoto | the more I think about it, the more I liek the renderContext idea |
| 23:21:11 | | BFLogBot Commit: 154a168b541c | Author: watusimoto | Message: Print-screen key now rebindable in INI |
| 23:21:12 | | BFLogBot Commit: 6e6aef047f09 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Merge |
| 23:21:28 | Watusimoto | oskopek: are you aroun? |
| 23:22:47 | Watusimoto | raptor: what is the best way to find oskopek's clone? |
| 23:23:09 | raptor | i go here and look for something: https://code.google.com/p/bitfighter/source/clones |
| 23:23:16 | raptor | the second one looks promising... |
| 23:23:44 | Watusimoto | good, just found it, thatnks |
| 23:26:58 | | BFLogBot Commit: 58a099d44264 | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Fix hostile goals being counted for hat trick badge |
| 23:31:49 | raptor | ok time to try and find the Lua timer problem that has been plaguing fordcars |
| 23:34:57 | Watusimoto | oskopek: I've integrated your code -- my only real comment is that ARRAYSIZE() is my preferred way of getting an array's length; I think it is safer in a few rare circumstances that don't really apply here |
| 23:39:48 | oskopek | Watusimoto: kinda |
| 23:40:09 | Watusimoto | no problem; I got what I wanted |
| 23:40:15 | Watusimoto | I was looking for your clone |
| 23:40:23 | Watusimoto | but I found it and have merged the code |
| 23:40:46 | oskopek | Watusimoto: thanks! I'll remember the arraysize() hopefully for next time |
| 23:40:49 | Watusimoto | I want to compile before I check in |
| 23:40:55 | Watusimoto | it's a handy macro |
| 23:41:49 | raptor | sorry being noisy in a bug... |
| 23:45:09 | Watusimoto | looks like I broke some tests that haven't been built for a while |
| 23:46:13 | | Canseco Quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:49:22 | | BFLogBot Commit: 8b922c396125 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Integrate testing improvements from oskopek. Thanks!! |
| 23:49:23 | | BFLogBot Commit: 537ac6df8681 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Merge |
| 23:49:25 | | BFLogBot Commit: c9751af721a7 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Fix test compile error |
| 23:49:26 | | BFLogBot Commit: 458b4da3a4ed | Author: watusimoto | Message: For more compile errors on test |
| 23:54:02 | Watusimoto | I've started tagging issues I think can be deferred until 019b with the 019b tag (in addition to 019a, in case we still want to tackle them now) |
| 23:54:13 | raptor | ok |
| 23:55:02 | raptor | I have this sneaking suspicion that the Timer class is not copied to each script's runtime context and it stays global |
| 23:55:17 | raptor | and that's why timer functions are persisting across levels... |
| 23:56:47 | Watusimoto | that would be easy to test... only add it to the first script and see if it is still available to the second |
| 23:56:55 | Watusimoto | i.e. add a static bool flag |
| 23:57:56 | raptor | not sure I follow... |