#bitfighter IRC Log

IRC Log for 2014-01-26

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

00:06:54 Watusimoto going to bed; almost done with color coding servers by local/remote
00:07:33 Watusimoto good night!
00:24:37 raptor night!
00:32:04 kaen http://bropages.org/
00:32:34 kaen this would have been nice when I first learned to use linux eight years ago :P
00:32:36 raptor hahaha, you've got to be kidding...
00:33:52 kaen "bro ...no"
00:35:20 raptor yeah, man pages are a beast
00:35:46 raptor in fact, i keep getting a packaging warning when packaging bitfighter - warning: no manual entry found for binary bitfighter
00:36:07 kaen huh
00:36:15 kaen I know for ubuntu a man page is required for all binaries
00:36:27 raptor but i never felt the urge to create a man page
00:36:32 raptor oh?  what about for debian?
00:36:42 kaen I don't think debian has that requirement
00:51:20 Nothing_Much has joined
01:06:18 kaen I'm trying to pare down this list to five or six default visible columns (the rest can be enabled by the user after the initial page load) http://pastie.org/8667746
01:06:51 kaen any suggestions as to which the most frequently used ones would be?
01:07:06 raptor looking...
01:07:33 kaen I'm thinking K/D/KDR/W/L
01:08:11 raptor I agree, plus game_count
01:08:35 raptor if(raptor) show asteroid_crashes
01:08:46 raptor because that's my best metric...
01:10:06 kaen hehehe
01:38:17 destroyerimo has joined
01:51:15 raptor what do you think of my idea, kaen, to make another sub-class of Ship called PlayerShip?  (maybe it was your idea in the past?)
01:53:56 Nothing_Much Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
01:56:53 raptor actually, i'm pretty sure you may have even made that recommendation before...
02:01:26 Watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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02:23:27 kaen it sounds familiar but I don't remember it specifically.
02:23:32 kaen at any rate I definitely agree
02:24:48 kaen I was texting my girlfriend and my coworker at the same time and I guess I lost track of who I was writing to
02:24:56 kaen my coworker asked me to stop calling him "baby"
02:30:45 Nothing_Much lmao
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05:06:56 fordcars Haha
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07:13:46 fordcars Night!
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17:55:48 BFLogBot Commit: 8a8b23fe5294 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Make line less wide
17:55:49 BFLogBot Commit: fdf916f7877f | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Comment style confuses VC++
17:55:51 BFLogBot Commit: 862f303c3199 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Break out functionality to have clearer structure
17:55:52 BFLogBot Commit: f1ced2e859ad | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Small cleanups
17:55:54 BFLogBot Commit: 395bd851896a | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Add some asserts that are more documentation than actual protection
17:55:55 BFLogBot Commit: c963698476af | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Small cleanup
17:55:57 BFLogBot Commit: 35053c1a6ada | Author: watusimoto  | Message: One thing at a time!
17:55:58 BFLogBot Commit: 5a1400bddc48 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Try to make code easier to read
17:56:00 BFLogBot Commit: b3711dba18b6 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Local servers are blue and sort at top of server list
17:56:01 BFLogBot Commit: 1eeb1a33a343 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Color background based on local/remote server, other refactor work.  Not well tested, but generally works.
17:56:03 BFLogBot Commit: dde978c59c0f | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Merge
17:56:04 BFLogBot Commit: cce22f0d2aed | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Another instance where we need to sort
17:56:06 BFLogBot Commit: 3d67884b9040 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Break things up a little to reveal the underlying logic
17:56:07 BFLogBot Commit: f05a64b6db81 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Privitize variables
17:56:09 BFLogBot Commit: 2d52e6b94ca1 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Reorder functions
17:56:10 BFLogBot Commit: 43a347fbac25 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Remove unnecessary reserve, rename variable
17:56:12 BFLogBot Commit: 1e55be5c09c0 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Variable name
17:56:13 BFLogBot Commit: f2818fd343b8 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Formatting, comments, var names
17:56:15 BFLogBot Commit: f4d852afc4a4 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: More clarification
18:01:34 Canseco has joined
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18:30:23 Zapgamer I really don't play Bitfighter very often, why?
18:30:41 Zapgamer Everytime I log on, I see players playing, zapping each other. I click that server to join and I- wait a minute, PASSWORD PROTECTED? Ahh fudge this, I am not playing Bitfighter.
18:31:08 Zapgamer Most servers are password protected
18:31:16 Zapgamer Yet there are 2+ players on it... :/
18:35:51 Zapgamer D'oh
18:36:30 Watusimoto hi Zapgamer
18:36:35 Watusimoto most servers are not pw protected
18:36:40 Zapgamer I know
18:36:47 Zapgamer but mostly everytime I see players online
18:36:56 Zapgamer They're playing on a password protected server :/
18:36:56 Watusimoto ah, I see
18:37:17 Watusimoto that's probably because they aer playing at school or whatnot
18:38:27 Zapgamer All 3 players D/C at once
18:38:35 Zapgamer How the... also who has school sundays?
18:39:17 Watusimoto sunday school!
18:39:30 kaen want to play, Zapgamer?
18:39:35 Watusimoto gotta go, dinner time
18:39:37 Watusimoto hi kaen
18:39:38 Watusimoto bye
18:39:46 kaen hi wat
18:39:49 kaen ok
18:39:53 kaen oops ww
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21:02:34 BFLogBot Commit: 4a12757c20f9 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Formatting, var name, remove unused function
21:02:36 BFLogBot Commit: a10127007a1f | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Whitespace, comment
21:02:38 BFLogBot Commit: fb34904a6ddb | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Formatting and such
21:02:39 BFLogBot Commit: 9529a464f353 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Make better use of mLoggingStatus
21:02:41 BFLogBot Commit: a277b1775909 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Add stubs for reading/writing custom post-connect messages on master
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21:16:41 Watusimoto anyone know what this message means?
21:16:42 Watusimoto message:"Could not find an open session. You must open a new one."
21:16:49 Watusimoto I see it in the console on the master
21:17:02 Watusimoto it doesn't seem to come from bitfighter, at least not directly
21:17:10 Watusimoto also:
21:17:11 Watusimoto success:"true"
21:17:15 Watusimoto and occasionally
21:17:20 Watusimoto success:"false"
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21:36:21 raptor good day!
22:16:29 kaen greetings!
22:24:11 Watusimoto hi
22:24:24 BFLogBot Commit: b940638cb232 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Warning
22:24:25 BFLogBot Commit: c7dc2c2b0984 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Remove dead code
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22:24:27 BFLogBot Commit: 799055c6fd39 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Remove unneeded includes
22:24:28 BFLogBot Commit: 7a8011fd8300 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Reorganize casting a little
22:24:30 BFLogBot Commit: a5cb30e7ebc2 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Advance M->C protocol to 8, return a master-generated ID to each client/server that connects
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22:38:46 vs73nx hi everyone
22:40:58 bobdaduck_m What would be the point of a playerShip class?
22:45:11 raptor Code simplification
22:45:18 raptor nothing on the user's end
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22:51:11 Watusimoto but if you do that, please try to keep the class we actually use "Ship"  I really dislike playership.  Long and ugly!
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23:01:56 raptor Ship would be the parent
23:02:16 Watusimoto what if ship were the child and something else were the parent?
23:02:16 raptor I could make it just 'Player'?
23:02:22 Watusimoto that would be confusing, I think
23:02:32 Watusimoto as we use player to refer to info about players
23:02:37 Watusimoto this is just a ship object
23:02:39 raptor that would work, but having 'Ship' be the child is odd to me...  because a Robot is a ship
23:03:00 Watusimoto is it?
23:03:03 Watusimoto robot is a kind of ship
23:03:10 raptor yup
23:03:18 raptor HumanControlledShip
23:03:21 Watusimoto that doesn't seem quite right
23:03:22 raptor there...  shorter!
23:03:35 Watusimoto perfect
23:03:36 raptor Robot is an AI controlled ship
23:03:42 Watusimoto ok
23:03:45 Watusimoto I see that
23:04:02 raptor at least that's how I think of things...  a Ship is one of those triangle thingies that flies around
23:04:12 Watusimoto yes, I agree, mostly
23:04:25 Watusimoto it seems like the object itself, like a testitem or loadout zone
23:05:04 Watusimoto then we have two variants... player controled, and bot controlled
23:05:11 Watusimoto I see that too
23:05:44 Watusimoto what we really want is that a ship is just a ship
23:05:58 Watusimoto and we want to pull the player control/bot control out of it
23:06:17 Watusimoto so that, on the client at least, a ship is just another object, regardless of who controls it
23:06:44 Watusimoto so on the client side, we'd just need Ship
23:06:44 bobdaduck_m Quit ()
23:07:02 raptor Sure
23:07:10 raptor server-side we have the subclasses
23:07:11 Watusimoto on the server side, we need different variants regarding who/what is controlling it
23:07:27 vs73nx_ Quit (Quit: Ok Leaving, Bye!)
23:07:28 Watusimoto we can't -- the classes need to be same on client and server
23:07:43 Watusimoto (probably)
23:07:44 Watusimoto but
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23:07:57 Watusimoto what if on server, the ship had a controller object
23:08:08 Watusimoto that could either be a human or a bot
23:08:25 Watusimoto so both would be ships, but would have different controllers
23:08:57 Watusimoto using the 'has a' relationship suggesting a composite object model
23:09:42 Watusimoto and then all the logic regarding user input and scripting would be moved out of ship and into shipcontroller
23:09:53 Watusimoto which would have two subclasses for human and bot
23:11:29 Watusimoto that might also fix the ugliness we have now pushing stuff relating to player controls through the ship object where they don't really belong
23:15:27 Nothing_Much Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
23:17:22 raptor when you say
23:17:50 raptor 'composite object model' do you mean the like way you coded BfObject and Geometry
23:20:37 Watusimoto yes
23:20:57 Watusimoto :-)
23:21:12 raptor so access is not a parent-child...  hmmm
23:21:19 raptor i hadn't thought of doing it that way
23:22:10 Watusimoto it does solve the requirement for object symmetry between client and server
23:22:50 Watusimoto (it *might* be possible to have ship be the shared object, and subclass it only on the server... I just don't know)
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23:39:50 raptor so in that model
23:40:06 raptor actually right now we do  new Ship and new Robot
23:40:26 raptor (server-side) when we want to instantiate the object
23:40:57 Watusimoto yes
23:41:03 raptor in your idea, how would we do that?
23:41:19 raptor and does the Controller class have a pointer to the Ship object?
23:41:33 Watusimoto possibly new Ship(controller)
23:41:38 Watusimoto pass it in the constructor/
23:41:39 Watusimoto ?
23:41:47 Watusimoto that wouldn't work, actually
23:42:02 Watusimoto well, it might
23:42:05 raptor so the AI controller needs to alter the ship velocity etc
23:42:14 raptor and has it's own idle()
23:42:19 Watusimoto either pass it in the constructor, or set it immediately after instantiation
23:42:24 Watusimoto yes
23:42:36 Watusimoto so in ship idle on server, we'd the idle the controller
23:42:40 raptor so  new Ship;  new AIController(ship);
23:43:11 Watusimoto ship->setController(controller)
23:43:17 Watusimoto both need to know about the other
23:43:26 raptor yes, OK, that was my question...
23:43:58 raptor seems more complicated than parent-child
23:44:06 Watusimoto we already have public methods to get most info about an object; speed, direction, etc.
23:44:30 Watusimoto it doesn't have to be
23:44:39 Watusimoto hell, we do this all over the place
23:44:47 Watusimoto take the robotController, for example
23:45:03 Watusimoto servergame delegates all robot management issues there
23:45:14 Watusimoto clientgame doesn;t know about it
23:45:22 raptor so we'd really have a parent class:  ShipController
23:45:33 Watusimoto it's not too much of a stretch to imagine two different kinds of robotmanagers for different circumstances
23:45:41 Watusimoto yes
23:45:43 Watusimoto certainly
23:45:49 raptor with virtual idle() methods to be overriden by RobotController
23:45:53 Watusimoto yes
23:46:33 raptor this would break our Robot loading in a level, though - now that Robot wouldn't exist and wouldn't be a child of BfObject
23:46:44 Watusimoto we'd probably need three, actually... with a NullController for the client side
23:46:46 Nothing_Much Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
23:47:10 Watusimoto or maybe it would just be NULL
23:47:34 Watusimoto robot would cease to exist
23:47:41 Watusimoto ship would be a child of BfObject
23:48:02 Watusimoto we'd probably need to manage robots a bit more like ships
23:48:15 Watusimoto transient objects that come and go as they die
23:48:21 Watusimoto but the robotcontroller would live on
23:48:41 Watusimoto (so we wouldn;t need to reload scripts every spawn)
23:48:44 raptor we'd have to code an exception for object loading since TNL does the string-to-class conversion
23:48:57 raptor we do that now?
23:49:02 raptor reload scripts each spawn???
23:49:04 Watusimoto no
23:49:14 Watusimoto just clarifying that we would continue to not do that
23:49:53 Watusimoto yes, we would probably have to munge the file loading a little
23:50:21 Watusimoto it's unpleasant but mostly harmless
23:50:27 raptor agreed
23:51:54 Watusimoto what would you think about making the next release 020 (without changing the release scope)
23:52:13 Watusimoto i.e. do the stuff for 019a, but call it 020
23:52:42 raptor you broke the protocol?
23:52:48 Watusimoto not yet
23:52:54 Watusimoto I want to though
23:53:01 raptor I thought we were quite close to 019a...
23:53:02 raptor oh?
23:53:04 Watusimoto we are
23:53:23 Watusimoto I've been mucking around trying to solve something that's been anoying me since about release 12
23:53:27 Watusimoto sorry, 012
23:53:43 raptor you know i'm picky about protocol switching - because once it's broken, there's a 'subconsious' choice to start breaking everything
23:53:45 Watusimoto when you have a local server, it shows up in the list twice, once as local, once as remote
23:53:53 raptor can't spell that word..
23:54:04 raptor subconscious
23:54:07 Watusimoto I have a solution, but it requires sending an extra byte during the server pining
23:54:20 Watusimoto and I don't think that can be handled with a change in protocol versions
23:55:07 Watusimoto alternatively, i could all-but fix it and disable sending that extra byte until after the release
23:55:30 raptor i like that idea
23:56:04 Watusimoto I've modified the master to accomodate, but that doesn't require upgrading
23:56:17 Watusimoto ok, we'll see how that goes
23:56:38 raptor i really like the idea of a robust 019a
23:56:55 Watusimoto I think the bot/ship refactor should wait for the next release
23:57:00 raptor me too

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These logs were automatically created by BFLogBot on irc.freenode.net.

00:06:54	Watusimoto	going to bed; almost done with color coding servers by local/remote
00:07:33	Watusimoto	good night!
00:24:37	raptor	night!
00:32:04	kaen	http://bropages.org/
00:32:34	kaen	this would have been nice when I first learned to use linux eight years ago :P
00:32:36	raptor	hahaha, you've got to be kidding...
00:33:52	kaen	"bro ...no"
00:35:20	raptor	yeah, man pages are a beast
00:35:46	raptor	in fact, i keep getting a packaging warning when packaging bitfighter - warning: no manual entry found for binary bitfighter
00:36:07	kaen	huh
00:36:15	kaen	I know for ubuntu a man page is required for all binaries
00:36:27	raptor	but i never felt the urge to create a man page
00:36:32	raptor	oh? what about for debian?
00:36:42	kaen	I don't think debian has that requirement
00:51:20		Nothing_Much has joined
01:06:18	kaen	I'm trying to pare down this list to five or six default visible columns (the rest can be enabled by the user after the initial page load) http://pastie.org/8667746
01:06:51	kaen	any suggestions as to which the most frequently used ones would be?
01:07:06	raptor	looking...
01:07:33	kaen	I'm thinking K/D/KDR/W/L
01:08:11	raptor	I agree, plus game_count
01:08:35	raptor	if(raptor) show asteroid_crashes
01:08:46	raptor	because that's my best metric...
01:10:06	kaen	hehehe
01:38:17		destroyerimo has joined
01:51:15	raptor	what do you think of my idea, kaen, to make another sub-class of Ship called PlayerShip? (maybe it was your idea in the past?)
01:53:56		Nothing_Much Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
01:56:53	raptor	actually, i'm pretty sure you may have even made that recommendation before...
02:01:26		Watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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02:23:27	kaen	it sounds familiar but I don't remember it specifically.
02:23:32	kaen	at any rate I definitely agree
02:24:48	kaen	I was texting my girlfriend and my coworker at the same time and I guess I lost track of who I was writing to
02:24:56	kaen	my coworker asked me to stop calling him "baby"
02:30:45	Nothing_Much	lmao
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05:06:56	fordcars	Haha
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07:13:46	fordcars	Night!
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17:55:48		BFLogBot Commit: 8a8b23fe5294 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Make line less wide
17:55:49		BFLogBot Commit: fdf916f7877f \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Comment style confuses VC++
17:55:51		BFLogBot Commit: 862f303c3199 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Break out functionality to have clearer structure
17:55:52		BFLogBot Commit: f1ced2e859ad \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Small cleanups
17:55:54		BFLogBot Commit: 395bd851896a \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Add some asserts that are more documentation than actual protection
17:55:55		BFLogBot Commit: c963698476af \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Small cleanup
17:55:57		BFLogBot Commit: 35053c1a6ada \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: One thing at a time!
17:55:58		BFLogBot Commit: 5a1400bddc48 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Try to make code easier to read
17:56:00		BFLogBot Commit: b3711dba18b6 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Local servers are blue and sort at top of server list
17:56:01		BFLogBot Commit: 1eeb1a33a343 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Color background based on local/remote server, other refactor work. Not well tested, but generally works.
17:56:03		BFLogBot Commit: dde978c59c0f \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Merge
17:56:04		BFLogBot Commit: cce22f0d2aed \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Another instance where we need to sort
17:56:06		BFLogBot Commit: 3d67884b9040 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Break things up a little to reveal the underlying logic
17:56:07		BFLogBot Commit: f05a64b6db81 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Privitize variables
17:56:09		BFLogBot Commit: 2d52e6b94ca1 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Reorder functions
17:56:10		BFLogBot Commit: 43a347fbac25 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Remove unnecessary reserve, rename variable
17:56:12		BFLogBot Commit: 1e55be5c09c0 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Variable name
17:56:13		BFLogBot Commit: f2818fd343b8 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Formatting, comments, var names
17:56:15		BFLogBot Commit: f4d852afc4a4 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: More clarification
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18:30:23	Zapgamer	I really don't play Bitfighter very often, why?
18:30:41	Zapgamer	Everytime I log on, I see players playing, zapping each other. I click that server to join and I- wait a minute, PASSWORD PROTECTED? Ahh fudge this, I am not playing Bitfighter.
18:31:08	Zapgamer	Most servers are password protected
18:31:16	Zapgamer	Yet there are 2+ players on it... :/
18:35:51	Zapgamer	D'oh
18:36:30	Watusimoto	hi Zapgamer
18:36:35	Watusimoto	most servers are not pw protected
18:36:40	Zapgamer	I know
18:36:47	Zapgamer	but mostly everytime I see players online
18:36:56	Zapgamer	They're playing on a password protected server :/
18:36:56	Watusimoto	ah, I see
18:37:17	Watusimoto	that's probably because they aer playing at school or whatnot
18:38:27	Zapgamer	All 3 players D/C at once
18:38:35	Zapgamer	How the... also who has school sundays?
18:39:17	Watusimoto	sunday school!
18:39:30	kaen	want to play, Zapgamer?
18:39:35	Watusimoto	gotta go, dinner time
18:39:37	Watusimoto	hi kaen
18:39:38	Watusimoto	bye
18:39:46	kaen	hi wat
18:39:49	kaen	ok
18:39:53	kaen	oops ww
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21:02:34		BFLogBot Commit: 4a12757c20f9 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Formatting, var name, remove unused function
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21:02:39		BFLogBot Commit: 9529a464f353 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Make better use of mLoggingStatus
21:02:41		BFLogBot Commit: a277b1775909 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Add stubs for reading/writing custom post-connect messages on master
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21:16:41	Watusimoto	anyone know what this message means?
21:16:42	Watusimoto	message:"Could not find an open session. You must open a new one."
21:16:49	Watusimoto	I see it in the console on the master
21:17:02	Watusimoto	it doesn't seem to come from bitfighter, at least not directly
21:17:10	Watusimoto	also:
21:17:11	Watusimoto	success:"true"
21:17:15	Watusimoto	and occasionally
21:17:20	Watusimoto	success:"false"
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21:36:21	raptor	good day!
22:16:29	kaen	greetings!
22:24:11	Watusimoto	hi
22:24:24		BFLogBot Commit: b940638cb232 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Warning
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22:24:28		BFLogBot Commit: 7a8011fd8300 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Reorganize casting a little
22:24:30		BFLogBot Commit: a5cb30e7ebc2 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Advance M->C protocol to 8, return a master-generated ID to each client/server that connects
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22:38:46	vs73nx	hi everyone
22:40:58	bobdaduck_m	What would be the point of a playerShip class?
22:45:11	raptor	Code simplification
22:45:18	raptor	nothing on the user's end
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22:51:11	Watusimoto	but if you do that, please try to keep the class we actually use "Ship" I really dislike playership. Long and ugly!
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23:01:56	raptor	Ship would be the parent
23:02:16	Watusimoto	what if ship were the child and something else were the parent?
23:02:16	raptor	I could make it just 'Player'?
23:02:22	Watusimoto	that would be confusing, I think
23:02:32	Watusimoto	as we use player to refer to info about players
23:02:37	Watusimoto	this is just a ship object
23:02:39	raptor	that would work, but having 'Ship' be the child is odd to me... because a Robot is a ship
23:03:00	Watusimoto	is it?
23:03:03	Watusimoto	robot is a kind of ship
23:03:10	raptor	yup
23:03:18	raptor	HumanControlledShip
23:03:21	Watusimoto	that doesn't seem quite right
23:03:22	raptor	there... shorter!
23:03:35	Watusimoto	perfect
23:03:36	raptor	Robot is an AI controlled ship
23:03:42	Watusimoto	ok
23:03:45	Watusimoto	I see that
23:04:02	raptor	at least that's how I think of things... a Ship is one of those triangle thingies that flies around
23:04:12	Watusimoto	yes, I agree, mostly
23:04:25	Watusimoto	it seems like the object itself, like a testitem or loadout zone
23:05:04	Watusimoto	then we have two variants... player controled, and bot controlled
23:05:11	Watusimoto	I see that too
23:05:44	Watusimoto	what we really want is that a ship is just a ship
23:05:58	Watusimoto	and we want to pull the player control/bot control out of it
23:06:17	Watusimoto	so that, on the client at least, a ship is just another object, regardless of who controls it
23:06:44	Watusimoto	so on the client side, we'd just need Ship
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23:07:02	raptor	Sure
23:07:10	raptor	server-side we have the subclasses
23:07:11	Watusimoto	on the server side, we need different variants regarding who/what is controlling it
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23:07:28	Watusimoto	we can't -- the classes need to be same on client and server
23:07:43	Watusimoto	(probably)
23:07:44	Watusimoto	but
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23:07:57	Watusimoto	what if on server, the ship had a controller object
23:08:08	Watusimoto	that could either be a human or a bot
23:08:25	Watusimoto	so both would be ships, but would have different controllers
23:08:57	Watusimoto	using the 'has a' relationship suggesting a composite object model
23:09:42	Watusimoto	and then all the logic regarding user input and scripting would be moved out of ship and into shipcontroller
23:09:53	Watusimoto	which would have two subclasses for human and bot
23:11:29	Watusimoto	that might also fix the ugliness we have now pushing stuff relating to player controls through the ship object where they don't really belong
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23:17:22	raptor	when you say
23:17:50	raptor	'composite object model' do you mean the like way you coded BfObject and Geometry
23:20:37	Watusimoto	yes
23:20:57	Watusimoto	:-)
23:21:12	raptor	so access is not a parent-child... hmmm
23:21:19	raptor	i hadn't thought of doing it that way
23:22:10	Watusimoto	it does solve the requirement for object symmetry between client and server
23:22:50	Watusimoto	(it might be possible to have ship be the shared object, and subclass it only on the server... I just don't know)
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23:39:50	raptor	so in that model
23:40:06	raptor	actually right now we do new Ship and new Robot
23:40:26	raptor	(server-side) when we want to instantiate the object
23:40:57	Watusimoto	yes
23:41:03	raptor	in your idea, how would we do that?
23:41:19	raptor	and does the Controller class have a pointer to the Ship object?
23:41:33	Watusimoto	possibly new Ship(controller)
23:41:38	Watusimoto	pass it in the constructor/
23:41:39	Watusimoto	?
23:41:47	Watusimoto	that wouldn't work, actually
23:42:02	Watusimoto	well, it might
23:42:05	raptor	so the AI controller needs to alter the ship velocity etc
23:42:14	raptor	and has it's own idle()
23:42:19	Watusimoto	either pass it in the constructor, or set it immediately after instantiation
23:42:24	Watusimoto	yes
23:42:36	Watusimoto	so in ship idle on server, we'd the idle the controller
23:42:40	raptor	so new Ship; new AIController(ship);
23:43:11	Watusimoto	ship->setController(controller)
23:43:17	Watusimoto	both need to know about the other
23:43:26	raptor	yes, OK, that was my question...
23:43:58	raptor	seems more complicated than parent-child
23:44:06	Watusimoto	we already have public methods to get most info about an object; speed, direction, etc.
23:44:30	Watusimoto	it doesn't have to be
23:44:39	Watusimoto	hell, we do this all over the place
23:44:47	Watusimoto	take the robotController, for example
23:45:03	Watusimoto	servergame delegates all robot management issues there
23:45:14	Watusimoto	clientgame doesn;t know about it
23:45:22	raptor	so we'd really have a parent class: ShipController
23:45:33	Watusimoto	it's not too much of a stretch to imagine two different kinds of robotmanagers for different circumstances
23:45:41	Watusimoto	yes
23:45:43	Watusimoto	certainly
23:45:49	raptor	with virtual idle() methods to be overriden by RobotController
23:45:53	Watusimoto	yes
23:46:33	raptor	this would break our Robot loading in a level, though - now that Robot wouldn't exist and wouldn't be a child of BfObject
23:46:44	Watusimoto	we'd probably need three, actually... with a NullController for the client side
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23:47:10	Watusimoto	or maybe it would just be NULL
23:47:34	Watusimoto	robot would cease to exist
23:47:41	Watusimoto	ship would be a child of BfObject
23:48:02	Watusimoto	we'd probably need to manage robots a bit more like ships
23:48:15	Watusimoto	transient objects that come and go as they die
23:48:21	Watusimoto	but the robotcontroller would live on
23:48:41	Watusimoto	(so we wouldn;t need to reload scripts every spawn)
23:48:44	raptor	we'd have to code an exception for object loading since TNL does the string-to-class conversion
23:48:57	raptor	we do that now?
23:49:02	raptor	reload scripts each spawn???
23:49:04	Watusimoto	no
23:49:14	Watusimoto	just clarifying that we would continue to not do that
23:49:53	Watusimoto	yes, we would probably have to munge the file loading a little
23:50:21	Watusimoto	it's unpleasant but mostly harmless
23:50:27	raptor	agreed
23:51:54	Watusimoto	what would you think about making the next release 020 (without changing the release scope)
23:52:13	Watusimoto	i.e. do the stuff for 019a, but call it 020
23:52:42	raptor	you broke the protocol?
23:52:48	Watusimoto	not yet
23:52:54	Watusimoto	I want to though
23:53:01	raptor	I thought we were quite close to 019a...
23:53:02	raptor	oh?
23:53:04	Watusimoto	we are
23:53:23	Watusimoto	I've been mucking around trying to solve something that's been anoying me since about release 12
23:53:27	Watusimoto	sorry, 012
23:53:43	raptor	you know i'm picky about protocol switching - because once it's broken, there's a 'subconsious' choice to start breaking everything
23:53:45	Watusimoto	when you have a local server, it shows up in the list twice, once as local, once as remote
23:53:53	raptor	can't spell that word..
23:54:04	raptor	subconscious
23:54:07	Watusimoto	I have a solution, but it requires sending an extra byte during the server pining
23:54:20	Watusimoto	and I don't think that can be handled with a change in protocol versions
23:55:07	Watusimoto	alternatively, i could all-but fix it and disable sending that extra byte until after the release
23:55:30	raptor	i like that idea
23:56:04	Watusimoto	I've modified the master to accomodate, but that doesn't require upgrading
23:56:17	Watusimoto	ok, we'll see how that goes
23:56:38	raptor	i really like the idea of a robust 019a
23:56:55	Watusimoto	I think the bot/ship refactor should wait for the next release
23:57:00	raptor	me too