#bitfighter IRC Log

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IRC Log for 2014-04-30

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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01:34:25amgine123hi
01:35:05amgine123anything new
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02:26:03amgine123if there ae nayt builds to test pm me ok
02:52:57kaenkaen vs. debian packaging
02:52:58kaenround 3
02:53:01kaen*ding ding*
03:13:49amgine123*debian punches* OHKO
03:22:02amgine123I didnt finish my levgen in time for contest sumbitions :(
03:22:15amgine123i finished it like the day after submitions were do as it was a complex lev gen
03:32:59amgine123*debian uses takedown* Its super effective!
03:56:24kaen uses flail
03:56:28kaenit's not very effective...
03:58:17Nothing_Muchnot pokemon :(
03:59:41amgine123I made a 10 hour youtube video with music for zap dance XD
04:00:00amgine123but it got removed for some reason by youtube moderaters
04:00:45Nothing_Muchoh darn
04:21:43fordcarsHai
04:22:53amgine123bye
04:27:46fordcarsNight!
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04:28:57kaenI'm not sure why I tried to offload this on to you, Nothing_Much
04:29:00kaenit's like really hard
04:29:22kaenI haven't been able to do it after attempts over the course of the last year
04:29:31kaenafter several*
04:37:12amgine123kaen can we implement the virus game mode by version 21 can you promise me that ?
04:37:25kaennope
04:37:28kaensorry bud
04:37:38amgine123ppl have been wanting it for a while now several version in fact
04:37:42amgine123but ok
04:37:48kaenI believe you
04:37:52kaenbut I don't have time to do it
04:37:54kaenso I can't promise it
04:38:15amgine123by at least version 25 then ? XD
04:44:16amgine123no ?
04:59:22amgine123gtg bye all1
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16:05:39ChanServ sets mode +o
16:06:04raptorgood morning!
16:06:13watusimoto1howdy
16:06:25raptorhow y'all doin' ?
16:06:40watusimoto1I all is doin' great!
16:07:11raptormy work rollout went OK... now I just have to wait for the complaints...
16:07:20watusimoto1:-)
16:07:32kaenmorning!
16:07:39raptorI'm just really glad I didn't do the UI stuff...
16:07:48kaenI'm hacking away at a debian package (again)
16:07:49raptorwith everyone griping about icon placement
16:07:49watusimoto1hi kaen
16:08:00kaenlol
16:08:02watusimoto1ui is a thankless task
16:08:07kaenno doubt
16:08:24raptordebian... to the fight!
16:08:50watusimoto1btw, I'll be out of touch from Saturday until Wed.
16:09:00raptorOK
16:09:10raptorI haven't done much in 2 weeks...
16:09:17raptorjust kept the fires burning
16:09:17watusimoto1no worries
16:09:20raptorbarely
16:09:44watusimoto1I have a work trip to Munich, with a couple of days tacked on at the beginning!
16:09:52watusimoto1Will be fun fun!
16:09:56watusimoto1at least until the work part starts
16:11:51watusimoto1also... I quit my job this morning
16:13:04raptorWHAT
16:13:10raptorwait what!?
16:13:19kaenhah!
16:13:21watusimoto1it's on a rather delayed fuse
16:13:26kaenI quit mine on monday
16:13:30raptorWHAT
16:13:30watusimoto1I'll be here probably through August
16:13:34watusimoto1hooray!
16:13:43watusimoto1quitters all around!
16:13:55watusimoto1raptor, have anything to tell us?
16:13:59kaenlol crazy timing
16:14:07kaenwe're waiting.... :)
16:14:13watusimoto1c'mon!
16:14:33raptorI waaay too conservative with respect to jobs... so much that my own boss encourages me to interview elsewhere at least once a year
16:14:37raptor*i'm
16:14:46kaenlol that's great
16:15:37watusimoto1my last few job searches have gone really well... I have a little less confidence this time
16:16:04watusimoto1last time I returned to Portland, an acquaintence showed up at my door one night while I was unpacking and offered me a job
16:16:19raptoroh wow
16:16:31watusimoto1I thought he was joking, but a few days later I met him and accepted
16:16:33raptorso you're coming back stateside
16:16:37watusimoto1yes
16:16:44watusimoto1back to Portland
16:17:56watusimoto1Portland is full of unemployed devs who move there because they figure it's better to be unemployed somewhere pleasant
16:18:19raptorha!
16:18:24watusimoto1so the job market can be a bit screwy
16:18:50raptorthe job market here in Utah, and especially here in Utah valley, UT is super good for any tech job
16:19:21watusimoto1Yes; I'm not sure I could live there, but I could definitely find work
16:19:39raptormostly because california and its culture/laws have become oppressive enough that business have moved away from there to here
16:20:18watusimoto1SLC has very wide streets
16:20:26watusimoto1I feel like I'm going to get lost just trying to cross one
16:20:36raptoryup - that was planning from the 1850s
16:21:00watusimoto1they could put a whole row of buildings down the middle and still have two smaller streets on either side
16:21:01raptorthe winters here, though, are definitely not like they are in Oregon :)
16:21:19watusimoto1we don't have an inversion :-)
16:21:38watusimoto1but the UT skiing is much better than in OR
16:21:48watusimoto1much, much much better
16:21:49raptorugh, the inversion
16:22:06raptorclear skies all year until the end of december
16:22:07watusimoto1so Portland and SLC are about equally gray
16:22:11watusimoto1just for different reasons
16:27:52kaenman, it's more of a chore than I thought to build against system libs
16:28:53raptorYES
16:29:22kaenI think I'll break up our cmake stuff some more. rather than all of these embedded conditionals, we could set vars in separate platform/foo.cmake files
16:29:24raptorcmake is great for it, but sometimes you have to write your own module to do the finding
16:29:35kaenI've already had to churn out a couple
16:29:47kaenI think I wrote the first FindLuaJit.cmake on the internet :)
16:29:54raptorhahaha
16:30:16raptoractually - i thought I saw a FindLua once that looks for luajit, too
16:30:28kaenhmm... maybe you're right
16:30:43kaenthat tickles some part of my brain, like I've seen it too
16:31:01kaenluajit was a win on the debian end, btw
16:31:21kaenbecause we can just use the system lib instead of fighting with them about lua-vec
16:32:20raptoryay!
16:32:25raptorI was hoping that'd be the case
16:32:29kaenbtw, I'm doing all of this via scripts
16:32:35raptorscripts?
16:32:48kaenI'm scripting the process to makes .debs
16:32:54watusimoto1great!!
16:33:16kaenso when we're done, making a new version will involve only make_debian_package.sh
16:34:05raptoroh good - I was *almost* there with my unofficial debs using the OBS
16:34:39raptorbut it was like 4 commands... and a lot of waiting (OBS doesn't build debs very fast)
16:34:49kaenoh, I was going to ask: where I can see the inputs for that?
16:34:59kaendid you make a debian/rules file or anything?
16:35:03raptorhttps://build.opensuse.org/package/show?package=bitfighter&project=games
16:35:18raptorthe OBS requires the .rules .dsc etc.
16:35:24raptorbut it does a lot of automatic stuff
16:35:41raptoroh...
16:35:45raptoroops, wrong one
16:36:22raptorher eis my personal project that does the building for debian 6/7 now: https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/home:dbuck/bitfighter
16:46:22kaenthat compares well with my notes
16:46:42kaenbitfighter actually builds happily with the default debian/rules
16:46:59kaenbut I need to trim some of the fat (for instance it builds the test exe)
16:47:15raptorto be perfectly honest - i didn't really know what I was doing, I just followed an example for how to build debs with the OBS
16:47:24kaenI see
16:48:11raptormy experience is in RPMs... actually, maybe I should work to get bitfighter in fedora
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16:57:56watusimoto1ok, out of here
16:57:59watusimoto1laterz!
16:58:08raptorbye
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17:09:15Nothing_Muchkaen: what?
17:09:53kaendebian package
17:11:05Nothing_Muchoh dude that's no big deal, I've been wanting to do it but I hit a cerrtain.. blockade that kept me from doing that
17:11:47kaenno, it's way harder than I made it out to be
17:12:05kaenour build system needs more work
17:12:18Nothing_Muchis it because of the lack of a makefile or something?
17:13:13kaenno, it's the way we pull in libraries
17:14:09kaensome of the time we use system libs, other times we use static linking of libraries from source that we distribute
17:14:22kaenthat second part is a big no-no in debian, if the library is already in debian
17:15:05Nothing_Muchright yeah, that would've been another package to maintain if it isn't in debian right?
17:15:53kaenpotentially, yes
17:16:39kaenI think after raptor's work on luajit and clipper we can get by with only pacakging a single new library (poly2tri)
17:16:58raptorhooray!
17:18:03kaenI've got some general consensus that TNL is ok
17:18:12raptorhaha
17:18:18raptorit's highly customized
17:18:39raptorand only we use our version
17:19:11kaenthat's what I told them
17:19:39kaen08:44 <kaen> hi guys, I've been putting a lot of work into our project to make it build against system libs, and we've even swapped out a non-free library (libtriangle) for one with a compatible license. but we have this one ancient networking library (TNL) which is terrible. as far as I can tell we are the only project that still uses it, and have the only fork that builds against recent gcc. additionally, the library was modified by the previous author
17:19:39kaen08:44 <kaen> to actually be coupled with our own code. it feels like packaging this beast would be a lot of trouble for no benefit to the community. what are the chances I could get a pass on packaging it?
17:20:12kaen09:34 <smcv> kaen: if nothing else in debian uses it, an embedded code copy is not so bad - still only one thing to update if it has a security flaw
17:20:13kaen09:34 <smcv> kaen: although if it's as bad as you say, and does networking, it might be worth auditing fairly carefully :-)
17:20:24Flynnn Quit (Quit: Leaving)
17:20:39kaenhe actually expounded on that last point a bit
17:20:53kaenit's a liability for the sponsor if our package ends up with a critical vuln or something
17:22:08Nothing_Muchwho's that?
17:22:36kaenjust a guy from a debian channel
17:22:41kaensounds like a DD, but I didn't ask
17:22:42Nothing_Muchoh okay
17:28:27Nothing_Muchwell darn, was hoping to contribute a little more to Bitfighter
17:31:17raptorwell of course we have critical vulnerabilities!
17:31:23raptorwe're an open source game!
17:31:40raptorit's not like we're an SSL implementation... :)
17:33:35raptori'm sure anyone who cared could hook into a dedicated server with a custom UDP packet and crash it
17:33:35Nothing_Muchlol
17:37:24raptorI think I dreamed last night of bitfighter with rotational physics...
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17:43:26kaenyou're probably right
17:43:38kaenbut it's standing strong against cat /dev/urandom | netcat -u 209.148.88.166 28001
17:43:47raptorhahaha, no way
17:43:51kaenyep
17:43:52raptoryou actually started that?
17:43:54raptorhaha
17:44:22kaenall I managed to do was DoS myself :P
17:46:10raptorso maybe it's not so bad... as far as security is concerned
17:46:41kaenprobably less risk than any other network game
17:46:59raptoryes, we have obscurity on our side
17:47:03kaenvery little attack surface if someone finds TNL vuln
17:47:06kaenpretty much just us :P
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18:30:47raptorWatusimoto: I'm curious about your job termination (if you're open to answer questions)
18:46:22Watusimotough, all kinds of weird corner cases with overtime/sudden death
18:46:31Watusimotowhat if all the other players quit except one?
18:47:16raptorthen let things proceed normally
18:47:20raptorhe's the winner!
18:49:04WatusimotoI'd say he wins, yes, but now we need an extra check in the player quits code
18:49:25raptorhow so?
18:50:36Watusimotowhen player quits --> is game in overtime? --> is there only one player left?
18:50:55Watusimotonormally, we don't care if there is only one player left
18:51:12Watusimotoand it's not just one player left, but if all the red players quit and only blue are left, blue wins!
18:51:22Watusimotoeven if there are 3 blue players
18:51:58raptorif the overtime timer kicked in then you just let it run out like normel, right?
18:52:44Watusimotoyes
18:52:57Watusimotobut there's no point if there's only one player/team left
18:53:03raptortrue
18:53:03Watusimotothe game can be decided at that point
18:53:08raptortrue
18:53:08Watusimotoso it shoudl end
18:53:12raptortrue
18:53:19raptoror we could just not care and let it run out
18:53:19Watusimotoso we need to check for that condition
18:53:25raptorto reduce complexity!
18:53:29Watusimotoperhaps
18:53:45Watusimotoor what if all red players change to the blue team?
18:53:51Watusimotogame can be decided!
18:54:19raptorif they decide to do weird things during overtime, i'm not sure we should care enough to handle i
18:54:21raptorit
18:55:08WatusimotoI'm thinking our goal should be to close the game as soon as we can
18:56:48raptorso have an OvertimeManager class with an idle() loop?
19:06:36Watusimotointeresting idea
19:06:55Watusimotothat might be overkill for what is currently one or two functions in GameType
19:07:07Watusimotobut maybe I'll change my mind when I get into the core stuff
19:07:17raptorI'm thinking of the work you did with RobotManager
19:07:23raptorbecause I think that was a good idea
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19:12:26kaenwoo! onto the linker errors
19:14:28raptorhooray!!!
19:14:37raptorkaen: are you working on poly2tri?
19:15:07kaenmy sponsorship request was pruned :<
19:15:17raptorautomatically?
19:15:21kaenno one reviewed it for several months
19:15:23kaenyeah
19:15:33kaenso I'm going to try and slide it past them
19:15:43raptor looks the other way
19:16:02kaenthen, when they wag their finger, I'll be able to say it's blocking another package and maybe someone will review it at least :P
19:45:44BFLogBot Commit: 054d3685b0ca | Author: watusimoto | Message: Nexus overtime implemented... also fixed some weirdness with soring of 0 point events
19:45:46BFLogBot Commit: 25f1b74b9398 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Line endings, probably
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20:16:02kaenwoo! it built
20:16:33kaenso right now, I'm statically linking against recast, poly2tri, and fontstash
20:16:46kaeneverything else is a system lib
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20:21:47raptorOOooo
20:21:49raptorthat's great
20:54:52Watusimotoso if there is a 3 player game, for example, 2 on red, one on blue, and blue has 5 pts and red 1pt and the game is about to end, and the blue player quits
20:55:06Watusimotoso now there are 2 red players with 1 point and no blue players with 5...
20:55:10Watusimotowho should win?
20:55:11raptorblue wins!
20:55:19raptori mean, that's how it is now, right?
20:55:22Watusimotoyes
20:55:33Watusimotoand that does make some sense
20:55:38Watusimotoand I am not proposing changing it
20:55:48raptorI think it's ok to just leave the default
20:55:59raptorthat seems consistent with most other games I've played
20:56:04raptorin that weird case
20:56:44Watusimotoyes, I agree... so let's say that is the "correct" behavior for the moment
20:57:10Watusimotoif that same situation happened in overtime, what should happen?
20:57:20Watusimotoshold the game continue or end?
20:57:25Watusimotoand who should win?
20:57:53WatusimotoI guess the game should end and blue should win?
20:58:38WatusimotoI think the game has to end
20:59:03Watusimotobecause in some game types you need another player to score
20:59:10Watusimotorabbit, bitmatch, nexus
20:59:47Watusimotoalthough in all three of those cases, we're adding 20 seconds to the clock and will reassess then
21:00:02Watusimotoand if there is only one player/team left, overtime is not extended
21:00:23raptorgame should end still, yes
21:00:30raptoryes
21:01:47Watusimotoyeah, ok. I was hoping to reuse some functions I wrote for determining the winner, but i guess the logic will differ a little
21:45:01raptorand now.. a day after rolling my big project to production, I find the proper solution to an issue that's been plaguing me for 2 months that we had to hack around...
21:49:28raptorWatusimoto: https://hedgewars.googlecode.com/hg/share/hedgewars/Data/Sounds/suddendeath.ogg
21:49:33raptorthat's the sudden death sound for hedgewars
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22:13:28kaenI'm trying to decide if that's lonewolf, or yoshismb
22:14:19raptorI think they are siblings
22:14:42kaenoh, whoa. I had no idea
22:16:19LoneWolfyWell you should have no idea because were not
22:16:44LoneWolfyLoneWolf was taken when I registered on freenode .-.
22:17:45raptoroh hi LoneWolfy
22:18:01raptorcan you explain the nature of your relationship to YoshiSmb?
22:18:09LoneWolfyUhh
22:18:14raptorfriend next door?
22:18:19LoneWolfyRelationship...?
22:18:20raptori can't remember
22:18:34raptor'relationship' in the original neutral sense
22:18:40LoneWolfyI dont know him irl
22:19:15kaenI was just reading too much into your hostname then :P
22:19:24raptoroh... well your hostname says 'yoshi95'
22:19:30raptorso that made us wonder
22:19:33kaen15:10 -!- LoneWolfy [~Yoshi95@c-68-42-41-107.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #bitfighter
22:19:46raptorand i thought you or yoshismb had a brother that played bitfighter, too
22:20:03kaenyoshi's cousin came into the channel the other day
22:20:17kaenthey exchanged maledictions in spanish, and then he went on his way
22:21:06raptorhaha
22:21:08LoneWolfyI have a sister named Kaia
22:21:13kaenI think I've done more full recompiles today than I have all year
22:21:14raptori guess i'm just confused...
22:21:31raptorI thought Kaia was FoOtloOse' sister
22:21:37LoneWolfyAnd... Yoshi95 is my freenode password, what the fuck
22:21:43LoneWolfyHh
22:21:48LoneWolfyHah*
22:22:00LoneWolfyFootie has a sister but its not Kaia
22:22:50LoneWolfy"Shroomymushroomy" or sonmething like that
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