#bitfighter IRC Log

IRC Log for 2015-04-02

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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11:31:41 raptor good day!
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13:14:13 watusimoto I was right... there were more taxes in my future
13:14:45 raptor TAXES
13:14:50 raptor i'm so sorry
13:15:48 raptor I remember the first time I did my own taxes, all on paper, after working tipping-related jobs the entire year
13:16:14 raptor but it probably doesn't compare to your situation
13:30:46 watusimoto well, next year will be simpler, I hope
13:30:55 watusimoto it's the transition years that are complex
13:31:26 watusimoto last night I mostly just fell alseep in a pile of papers
14:05:22 koda i changed jobs three times last year in three different countries \o/
14:07:57 watusimoto wow
14:08:00 raptor blah!
14:08:11 watusimoto but as a non-us citizen, things may be simpler for you
14:08:23 watusimoto for us, all income earned anywhwere is taxable in the us
14:08:31 watusimoto so needs to be reported and accoutned for
14:09:04 watusimoto I even needed to factor in my housing costs in Luxembourg
14:09:24 watusimoto most countries have saner tax laws
14:09:37 watusimoto (in that regard, at least)
14:23:14 JeffMB has joined
14:26:45 JeffMB raptor: I have fallen in life with GENie (premake fork)
14:27:11 raptor in love?
14:27:18 raptor hello :)
14:27:31 raptor i'm not sure i've heard of that...
14:27:31 JeffMB err
14:27:32 JeffMB yeah :P
14:27:35 JeffMB http://pastebin.com/CHfQ1MCu
14:27:57 raptor loks clean
14:28:02 raptor *looks
14:28:15 JeffMB .ye
14:28:30 JeffMB https://github.com/bkaradzic/genie
14:28:40 JeffMB same guy that does the BGFX rendering engine
14:29:08 JeffMB although he don't officially support xcode, xcode4 does work
14:29:14 JeffMB and i believe xcode3 as well
14:29:32 raptor i have heard of premake
14:30:15 JeffMB ya its just a fork of premake since premake's guy is well....on haitus :P
14:41:58 raptor i was considering moving to it instead of CMake for bitfighter, back when we did the conversion
14:42:31 raptor but it wasn't as mature, if I recall
14:45:41 raptor koda convinced me to use CMake anyways
14:45:45 raptor and it was a good choice
15:07:55 JeffMB ah
15:25:29 JeffMB i guess GG never heard of cpuid
15:25:34 JeffMB >_>
15:25:43 raptor how so?
15:25:46 watusimoto so genie is some sort of cmake like tool?
15:26:00 JeffMB lets just program a buncha assembly was their motto
15:26:09 raptor watusimoto: yes, it is a fork of premake, whose original goal was to be better than cmake or autotools
15:26:22 raptor granted that's not hard to do with autotools...
15:26:27 JeffMB and this:
15:26:28 JeffMB https://github.com/JeffProgrammer/Torque2D/blob/empty/engine/source/platformOSX/osxCPU.mm#L31
15:26:31 watusimoto I was opposed to cmake at first, but I'm glad I didn't hold the line on that, as I really like it now
15:26:32 JeffMB the bullshit metre just exploded
15:26:43 watusimoto well, like it as much as one can like a build system
15:26:49 raptor heh, yeah
15:26:51 watusimoto which isn't very much, really
15:27:12 JeffMB lol
15:27:16 watusimoto sometimes I wonder which would be a worse job: software tester or build system engineer
15:27:25 JeffMB i don't wanna find out
15:27:29 watusimoto then I think that perhaps cleaning fish would be a good job
15:27:45 raptor i cleaned shrimp once
15:27:54 raptor i mean, as part of a job - several times actually
15:27:56 watusimoto must have been a fun job!
15:28:11 raptor it was gross, but i was probably the best cleaner
15:28:19 raptor what a field to be good at...
15:28:34 watusimoto no kidding
15:29:34 JeffMB raptor: how's the GLES stuff coming along :)
15:29:35 raptor software tester vs build system engineer...
15:29:42 raptor i think i'd choose the build system
15:29:53 raptor JeffMB: slowly - but making progress
15:29:58 JeffMB woo
15:30:20 raptor haven't actually written any GLES stuff yet, but i'm finishing up the abstraction framework
15:30:22 JeffMB i'll be doing GL code soon, as in either today or tomorrow on my project.
15:30:32 JeffMB i gotta do an abstraction layer around opengl 1.5 and opengl 3.3
15:30:57 JeffMB shaders and ffp fallback ofc
15:31:00 raptor this site has been extremely helpful:  http://docs.gl/
15:31:14 JeffMB ooo ty
15:31:26 JeffMB o i have a link for u too, regarding OSX opengl
15:31:26 raptor tells you right away if a particular function is available in an API
15:31:27 JeffMB one second
15:31:39 JeffMB since osx is shitty at following opengl standards
15:32:00 raptor i don't think i'm going to do any GL OSX programming
15:32:09 raptor we're sticking with GL 1.1 on it
15:32:28 raptor unless they gut the fixed function pipeline in some OSX version
15:32:36 JeffMB i can see that coming some day
15:32:42 JeffMB the legacy profile has been deprecated since 10.7
15:32:52 raptor what version are they on?
15:32:55 JeffMB 10.10
15:33:08 raptor hmm...  maybe only 2 or 3 versions left before they kill it, then
15:33:14 raptor better get GLES done!
15:33:19 JeffMB have a hard time believing they would kill it though
15:33:32 JeffMB cuz that includes gl 1.0-2.1
15:33:39 JeffMB lots of programs run on 2
15:33:45 JeffMB all of valves games?
15:33:48 JeffMB opengl 2.1
15:34:20 JeffMB they would kill osx players on steam
15:35:04 JeffMB however, apple has stated that the legacy profile will not be updated.
15:35:17 JeffMB so like if new extensions come out that still target 2.x, it won't get it
15:35:54 JeffMB RIP marbleblast the day they do kill off old opengl though :]
15:38:56 JeffMB i can't find this damn link, i need it too lol
15:48:54 JeffMB woohoo getting somewhere :D
15:48:55 JeffMB http://i.imgur.com/XiSjQdD.png
15:54:48 raptor back in a bit..
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18:39:55 JeffMB got GENie to work on windows :)
18:40:07 JeffMB https://github.com/CubeGame/Torque2D/tree/empty/build
18:57:56 watusimoto why this and not cmake?
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19:15:13 JeffMB watusimoto: because, lua is awesome
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20:32:51 watusimoto think how much more awesome it would be if they used 0-based indexes!
20:33:15 watusimoto :-)
20:35:24 JeffMB :-)
20:35:36 JeffMB TorqueScript uses 0-based arrays :-)
20:36:43 watusimoto I actually think 0 based is not a great standard, but it is the standard, and doing something else just causes endless pain, especially in Lua, which is designed to interface closely with C/C++ code.
20:37:28 watusimoto I don't love Lua, but it is pretty good for certain tasks, which is why I chose it for all scripting/bot writing tasks in Bitfighter
20:37:43 watusimoto and it can be very fast, especially with LuaJIT
20:38:08 watusimoto actually, strike that word "especially"
20:46:05 JeffMB its fast w/o the JIT :P
20:47:07 JeffMB TorqueScript is slow as balls
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20:55:56 watusimoto Lua is fast for some things, dog slow for others (if you have a script that creates lots of memory churn, it can get really bogged down...) LuaVec and LuaJIT worked much better for us than plain Lua.
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11:31:41	raptor	good day!
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13:14:13	watusimoto	I was right... there were more taxes in my future
13:14:45	raptor	TAXES
13:14:50	raptor	i'm so sorry
13:15:48	raptor	I remember the first time I did my own taxes, all on paper, after working tipping-related jobs the entire year
13:16:14	raptor	but it probably doesn't compare to your situation
13:30:46	watusimoto	well, next year will be simpler, I hope
13:30:55	watusimoto	it's the transition years that are complex
13:31:26	watusimoto	last night I mostly just fell alseep in a pile of papers
14:05:22	koda	i changed jobs three times last year in three different countries \o/
14:07:57	watusimoto	wow
14:08:00	raptor	blah!
14:08:11	watusimoto	but as a non-us citizen, things may be simpler for you
14:08:23	watusimoto	for us, all income earned anywhwere is taxable in the us
14:08:31	watusimoto	so needs to be reported and accoutned for
14:09:04	watusimoto	I even needed to factor in my housing costs in Luxembourg
14:09:24	watusimoto	most countries have saner tax laws
14:09:37	watusimoto	(in that regard, at least)
14:23:14		JeffMB has joined
14:26:45	JeffMB	raptor: I have fallen in life with GENie (premake fork)
14:27:11	raptor	in love?
14:27:18	raptor	hello :)
14:27:31	raptor	i'm not sure i've heard of that...
14:27:31	JeffMB	err
14:27:32	JeffMB	yeah :P
14:27:35	JeffMB	http://pastebin.com/CHfQ1MCu
14:27:57	raptor	loks clean
14:28:02	raptor	*looks
14:28:15	JeffMB	.ye
14:28:30	JeffMB	https://github.com/bkaradzic/genie
14:28:40	JeffMB	same guy that does the BGFX rendering engine
14:29:08	JeffMB	although he don't officially support xcode, xcode4 does work
14:29:14	JeffMB	and i believe xcode3 as well
14:29:32	raptor	i have heard of premake
14:30:15	JeffMB	ya its just a fork of premake since premake's guy is well....on haitus :P
14:41:58	raptor	i was considering moving to it instead of CMake for bitfighter, back when we did the conversion
14:42:31	raptor	but it wasn't as mature, if I recall
14:45:41	raptor	koda convinced me to use CMake anyways
14:45:45	raptor	and it was a good choice
15:07:55	JeffMB	ah
15:25:29	JeffMB	i guess GG never heard of cpuid
15:25:34	JeffMB	>_>
15:25:43	raptor	how so?
15:25:46	watusimoto	so genie is some sort of cmake like tool?
15:26:00	JeffMB	lets just program a buncha assembly was their motto
15:26:09	raptor	watusimoto: yes, it is a fork of premake, whose original goal was to be better than cmake or autotools
15:26:22	raptor	granted that's not hard to do with autotools...
15:26:27	JeffMB	and this:
15:26:28	JeffMB	https://github.com/JeffProgrammer/Torque2D/blob/empty/engine/source/platformOSX/osxCPU.mm#L31
15:26:31	watusimoto	I was opposed to cmake at first, but I'm glad I didn't hold the line on that, as I really like it now
15:26:32	JeffMB	the bullshit metre just exploded
15:26:43	watusimoto	well, like it as much as one can like a build system
15:26:49	raptor	heh, yeah
15:26:51	watusimoto	which isn't very much, really
15:27:12	JeffMB	lol
15:27:16	watusimoto	sometimes I wonder which would be a worse job: software tester or build system engineer
15:27:25	JeffMB	i don't wanna find out
15:27:29	watusimoto	then I think that perhaps cleaning fish would be a good job
15:27:45	raptor	i cleaned shrimp once
15:27:54	raptor	i mean, as part of a job - several times actually
15:27:56	watusimoto	must have been a fun job!
15:28:11	raptor	it was gross, but i was probably the best cleaner
15:28:19	raptor	what a field to be good at...
15:28:34	watusimoto	no kidding
15:29:34	JeffMB	raptor: how's the GLES stuff coming along :)
15:29:35	raptor	software tester vs build system engineer...
15:29:42	raptor	i think i'd choose the build system
15:29:53	raptor	JeffMB: slowly - but making progress
15:29:58	JeffMB	woo
15:30:20	raptor	haven't actually written any GLES stuff yet, but i'm finishing up the abstraction framework
15:30:22	JeffMB	i'll be doing GL code soon, as in either today or tomorrow on my project.
15:30:32	JeffMB	i gotta do an abstraction layer around opengl 1.5 and opengl 3.3
15:30:57	JeffMB	shaders and ffp fallback ofc
15:31:00	raptor	this site has been extremely helpful: http://docs.gl/
15:31:14	JeffMB	ooo ty
15:31:26	JeffMB	o i have a link for u too, regarding OSX opengl
15:31:26	raptor	tells you right away if a particular function is available in an API
15:31:27	JeffMB	one second
15:31:39	JeffMB	since osx is shitty at following opengl standards
15:32:00	raptor	i don't think i'm going to do any GL OSX programming
15:32:09	raptor	we're sticking with GL 1.1 on it
15:32:28	raptor	unless they gut the fixed function pipeline in some OSX version
15:32:36	JeffMB	i can see that coming some day
15:32:42	JeffMB	the legacy profile has been deprecated since 10.7
15:32:52	raptor	what version are they on?
15:32:55	JeffMB	10.10
15:33:08	raptor	hmm... maybe only 2 or 3 versions left before they kill it, then
15:33:14	raptor	better get GLES done!
15:33:19	JeffMB	have a hard time believing they would kill it though
15:33:32	JeffMB	cuz that includes gl 1.0-2.1
15:33:39	JeffMB	lots of programs run on 2
15:33:45	JeffMB	all of valves games?
15:33:48	JeffMB	opengl 2.1
15:34:20	JeffMB	they would kill osx players on steam
15:35:04	JeffMB	however, apple has stated that the legacy profile will not be updated.
15:35:17	JeffMB	so like if new extensions come out that still target 2.x, it won't get it
15:35:54	JeffMB	RIP marbleblast the day they do kill off old opengl though :]
15:38:56	JeffMB	i can't find this damn link, i need it too lol
15:48:54	JeffMB	woohoo getting somewhere :D
15:48:55	JeffMB	http://i.imgur.com/XiSjQdD.png
15:54:48	raptor	back in a bit..
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18:39:55	JeffMB	got GENie to work on windows :)
18:40:07	JeffMB	https://github.com/CubeGame/Torque2D/tree/empty/build
18:57:56	watusimoto	why this and not cmake?
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19:15:13	JeffMB	watusimoto: because, lua is awesome
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20:32:51	watusimoto	think how much more awesome it would be if they used 0-based indexes!
20:33:15	watusimoto	:-)
20:35:24	JeffMB	:-)
20:35:36	JeffMB	TorqueScript uses 0-based arrays :-)
20:36:43	watusimoto	I actually think 0 based is not a great standard, but it is the standard, and doing something else just causes endless pain, especially in Lua, which is designed to interface closely with C/C++ code.
20:37:28	watusimoto	I don't love Lua, but it is pretty good for certain tasks, which is why I chose it for all scripting/bot writing tasks in Bitfighter
20:37:43	watusimoto	and it can be very fast, especially with LuaJIT
20:38:08	watusimoto	actually, strike that word "especially"
20:46:05	JeffMB	its fast w/o the JIT :P
20:47:07	JeffMB	TorqueScript is slow as balls
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20:55:56	watusimoto	Lua is fast for some things, dog slow for others (if you have a script that creates lots of memory churn, it can get really bogged down...) LuaVec and LuaJIT worked much better for us than plain Lua.
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