#bitfighter IRC Log

IRC Log for 2015-05-18

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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12:41:58 raptor good day!
12:42:08 raptor it feels like a day for...  housekeeping!
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13:22:30 watusimoto good day all
13:22:36 raptor hi
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14:00:38 raptor I think 019e might rival 015a as the most stable release...
14:01:26 Nothing_Much raptor, Oh really? It works really good from what I've seen
14:02:37 raptor I'm probably severely biased, but ever since the tumult of release 016, i've never felt that our codebase was as stable.  It may be just because I've also become more familiar with the code since 015a and I know where the dragons are...
14:03:19 Nothing_Much dragons?
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14:04:10 koda "tumlt"
14:04:13 koda ?
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14:05:17 raptor getting bitfighter to 016 was very tumultuous
14:05:25 koda hwy
14:05:32 koda canttype today
14:05:42 koda -.-
14:06:08 raptor we introduced a new gametype, made huge refactors, migrated from GLUT to SDL...  just lots of things that added up to thinking that bitfighter was going to be broken forever
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14:09:53 koda interesting
14:10:31 raptor dragons == huge dangers lurking around
14:10:39 raptor sorry, too much metaphor today...
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15:37:31 watusimoto I think until 020 it was pretty good
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15:41:02 watusimoto i.e. 019 is pretty good
15:41:14 watusimoto you should have seen the code back in the day... crashes all over the place
15:42:06 watusimoto around 008 or 009 crash fixing became the uber priority... then you and sam came along and fixed some of the tricky lingering issues causing crashes
15:42:44 raptor i'm sure sam686 did the bulk of the tricky stuff...
15:42:53 raptor i just made sure it compiled in Linux :)
15:43:07 watusimoto well, that was important too!
15:43:23 watusimoto I spent my whole weekend digging trenches in my yard
15:43:43 raptor protecting the castle, huh?
15:43:47 watusimoto you betcha
15:44:07 watusimoto when the big earthquake comes, my house will be more defendable against the starving hordes
15:44:40 raptor is your part of oregon that seismically active?
15:44:43 watusimoto we can use the trenches to pass unseen between the safehouse and the bunker
15:44:58 raptor here in utah, we *know* we're due for an earthquake any moment now
15:45:35 watusimoto Yes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia_subduction_zone
15:45:45 watusimoto The Cascadia subduction zone can produce very large earthquakes ("megathrust earthquakes"), magnitude 9.0 or greater, if rupture occurs over its whole area.
15:45:48 watusimoto we're overdue
15:45:58 watusimoto most likely this will happen in the next 50 years
15:46:12 watusimoto based on historic records
15:46:42 raptor oh wow...  that's a lot of land that will move
15:46:49 watusimoto The feared next major earthquake has some geologists predicting a 10% to 14% probability that the Cascadia Subduction Zone will produce an event of magnitude 9 or higher in the next 50 years;[15] however, the most recent studies suggest that this risk could be as high as 37% for earthquakes of magnitude 8 or higher.[16][17]
15:47:09 watusimoto Portland will be leveled
15:47:13 raptor huh, i had no idea about that region...
15:47:24 watusimoto no one did until fairly recently
15:47:32 watusimoto which is why our buildings are so unprepared
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15:48:25 raptor we've known for a while here - most buildings are prepared...  at least in this valley; although, i'm not sure we're expection an 8-9 magnitude - i think it's supposed to be 7-8
15:48:38 watusimoto just hope that yellowstone doesn't blow
15:48:46 raptor hah
15:48:48 watusimoto in which case you'd be toast
15:48:55 raptor what movie was that, that had that again?
15:48:58 watusimoto but then... maybe better to get it over with
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15:49:26 raptor ah yes - '2012'
15:49:27 watusimoto it's not a movie scenario
15:49:41 watusimoto or at least not one I'm aware of
15:49:48 raptor ^^ that one
15:50:32 raptor it had some wierd science-y premise for lots of bad natural disasters; one of which was yellowstone supervolcano
15:50:43 watusimoto ah, ok, I think I remember that
15:50:55 watusimoto the volcano is real of course
15:51:04 watusimoto though probably safe for the moment
15:51:15 raptor yeah
15:51:25 raptor time to colonize mars... just in case
15:52:30 watusimoto I'm not entirely sure I buy that
15:52:38 watusimoto but I'd support it for other reasons
15:52:40 watusimoto so let's go!
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15:53:09 raptor we'd have to crash an ice-filled asteroid into it first, then wait for the kinetic energy to dissipate over a few millenia...  :)
15:53:37 watusimoto there is some ice on mars
15:53:47 raptor not enough!
15:54:00 raptor i think i read that idea in the book '3001'
15:54:14 raptor part of the '2001: space odyssey' series
15:54:17 watusimoto haevn't read that... arthur c clarke?
15:54:20 watusimoto ok
15:54:47 raptor yeah, humanity had started terraforming...  but with *really* long term planning
15:55:08 watusimoto btw, I tried compiling with physfs, and had to do include full paths to the include files and such
15:55:14 watusimoto and still couldn't get it to compile
15:55:33 raptor what?  I tested it with vc++ 2010 right before I committed
15:55:40 watusimoto how did you test?
15:55:54 raptor I did a fresh cmake build with a new vc++ solution
15:56:11 raptor then just did 'build' on 'bitfighter'
15:56:13 watusimoto did you actually add any physfs code?  e.g. initialize the lib or something?
15:56:18 raptor oh no
15:56:26 raptor just made sure linking, etc. would work
15:56:33 watusimoto the build itself is not broken
15:56:44 watusimoto I only have problems when I try to use physfs
15:57:00 raptor hmmm...
15:57:05 watusimoto so I think the include paths are a bit mixed up
15:57:14 watusimoto I didn't have the energy to investigate last night
15:57:25 watusimoto after all that trenching
15:57:54 raptor i bet the sharks were difficult to wrangle
15:58:02 watusimoto also I'm guessing you renamed physfs-cpp.hpp to xxx.h
15:58:10 raptor oh no -
15:58:22 raptor I didn't touch any of that
15:58:33 watusimoto oh
15:58:34 watusimoto well
15:58:35 watusimoto then
15:58:47 watusimoto I need to test something on my end
15:58:52 raptor i just hooked it up with cmake, made sure it found the library and linked
15:59:16 watusimoto it may be my fault -- some left over vestiges from my first attempt with physfs before you did your cmake work
15:59:30 watusimoto so let me look tonight before you worry about it
15:59:32 raptor to get where you want, could I just drop in the physfs-cpp class?
15:59:40 raptor ok
15:59:47 watusimoto I'm not sure
16:00:07 watusimoto let's discuss tomorrow
16:00:11 raptor did you modify that one, or is it vanilla from that one github project?
16:00:12 raptor ok
16:00:34 raptor yeah, i need to study lin. algebra (despite the welcomed interruption)
16:00:48 watusimoto it was vanilla, but the github initializer swallows an error that might get thrown from the .c version
16:00:58 watusimoto so I modified it a tad
16:01:08 watusimoto but that isn't the issue
16:01:19 watusimoto ok, well, linearize your algebra
16:01:33 raptor for what it's worth, the original physfs C header allows calling from c++ anyways
16:01:44 watusimoto I mostly wanted the stream wrapping
16:01:48 raptor ah ok
16:02:14 watusimoto I need to make the level loading go faster, and perhaps streaming it in from the files directly will be faster than my current method of reading the whole level to a string
16:03:02 watusimoto probably I need to move string-level parsing/file loading to streams
16:03:07 raptor maybe...  but i've clocked stream operations at a good 50x slower in some cases
16:03:30 watusimoto well right now to read a level we stream it to a string, then break the string into lines, then parse them
16:03:40 watusimoto we could just take the stream and do a series of readline calls
16:03:51 watusimoto (this is a 020 thing, not 019x)
16:03:54 raptor but using the actuall c++ stream libraries?  or just reading in a bugger?
16:03:56 raptor *buffer
16:04:16 watusimoto I don't understand the question
16:04:23 watusimoto I want to use the stream libs
16:04:36 watusimoto now we pass a string to the level parser
16:04:37 raptor i.e.   using  the c++ stream libs with all their >> blah >> endl; etc
16:04:42 watusimoto I want to pass a stream to the level parser
16:04:47 raptor vs the C way with char arrays, etc.
16:04:53 raptor the c++ way is 50x slower
16:04:59 watusimoto ah, I see
16:05:16 watusimoto I want to use readline() with the stream
16:05:24 watusimoto don't know about the performance of that
16:05:40 raptor c++ stream stuff is much nicer, easier to maintain, etc.
16:05:49 watusimoto I don't want to use any >>> stuff
16:05:53 watusimoto oops >>
16:06:07 raptor but at a high cost of performance - i think they do lots of exception checking, too which slows it waay down
16:06:11 raptor ah ok
16:06:16 raptor well i'm not sure, then
16:06:37 watusimoto open file, assign it to an fstream, while(readline()) { parse level line }
16:07:03 raptor hmmm...  that's pretty basic.  maybe it'll be ok
16:07:16 watusimoto now it's open file; read file to string(); break string into vec<string>; parse each line
16:07:46 raptor oh, yeah - that seems it may be slow
16:07:48 watusimoto that's got to be way slower
16:08:09 raptor here's one interesting post:  https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12997131/stdfstream-buffering-vs-manual-buffering-why-10x-gain-with-manual-buffering
16:08:17 watusimoto I did that so we could share code with the method that starts with a string (a possibility in 020 -- load a level from a string)
16:09:08 raptor oh wait, that's not it
16:09:56 watusimoto I can see if I can do manual buffering from a string
16:10:11 watusimoto but this is not an area I have much practice with
16:10:41 raptor this says it's still fast:  http://lemire.me/blog/archives/2012/06/26/which-is-fastest-read-fread-ifstream-or-mmap/
16:11:01 raptor i bet that using the string() method like you do is adding a lot of overhead with auto-buffering
16:11:45 watusimoto yes, and parsing the level files to break into lines, and such
16:12:52 raptor oh man, portland is toast (reading about the subduction zone)
16:13:55 watusimoto looks like the c++ method is the fastest, in his case
16:14:03 watusimoto yeah, we're toast
16:14:15 watusimoto our bridges will mostly collapse, my house will collapse
16:14:51 watusimoto anyone in the neighborhood where I work who happens to be on the street will get killed by flying broken glass, as the windows fall off htis building:
16:15:16 watusimoto http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/US_Bancorp_Tower_from_Burnside_-_Portland,_Oregon.JPG
16:15:46 watusimoto and so on
16:15:46 raptor oh wow - is that an older building?
16:16:06 watusimoto early 80s
16:16:11 watusimoto it won't collapse
16:16:17 watusimoto but the facade will
16:20:59 watusimoto If you want to kill some time, and learn more about our fate... http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/the-first-four-minutes/Content?oid=5766214
16:21:22 raptor hah - nice picture
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20:45:32 raptor watusimoto: i'm testing physfs.cpp - did you just put it in the zap/ folder?
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21:05:13 raptor found the issue!
21:05:16 raptor i shall fix
21:17:39 BFLogBot Commit: c7fd33ac5c | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Fix missing physfs include in search paths
21:17:42 raptor fixed!
21:17:49 raptor ok, you should be good to go watusimoto
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21:41:04 watusimoto ok, I'm heading home... will test tonight (and try to do more of the release checklist!)
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22:10:35 BFLogBot Commit: 04ef8884ee | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Fix finding PhysFS on case-sensitive platforms
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22:43:57 BFLogBot Commit: b07918e81c | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Silence a CMake warning (for now)
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12:41:58	raptor	good day!
12:42:08	raptor	it feels like a day for... housekeeping!
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13:22:30	watusimoto	good day all
13:22:36	raptor	hi
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14:00:38	raptor	I think 019e might rival 015a as the most stable release...
14:01:26	Nothing_Much	raptor, Oh really? It works really good from what I've seen
14:02:37	raptor	I'm probably severely biased, but ever since the tumult of release 016, i've never felt that our codebase was as stable. It may be just because I've also become more familiar with the code since 015a and I know where the dragons are...
14:03:19	Nothing_Much	dragons?
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14:04:10	koda	"tumlt"
14:04:13	koda	?
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14:05:17	raptor	getting bitfighter to 016 was very tumultuous
14:05:25	koda	hwy
14:05:32		koda canttype today
14:05:42	koda	-.-
14:06:08	raptor	we introduced a new gametype, made huge refactors, migrated from GLUT to SDL... just lots of things that added up to thinking that bitfighter was going to be broken forever
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14:09:53	koda	interesting
14:10:31	raptor	dragons == huge dangers lurking around
14:10:39	raptor	sorry, too much metaphor today...
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15:37:31	watusimoto	I think until 020 it was pretty good
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15:41:02	watusimoto	i.e. 019 is pretty good
15:41:14	watusimoto	you should have seen the code back in the day... crashes all over the place
15:42:06	watusimoto	around 008 or 009 crash fixing became the uber priority... then you and sam came along and fixed some of the tricky lingering issues causing crashes
15:42:44	raptor	i'm sure sam686 did the bulk of the tricky stuff...
15:42:53	raptor	i just made sure it compiled in Linux :)
15:43:07	watusimoto	well, that was important too!
15:43:23	watusimoto	I spent my whole weekend digging trenches in my yard
15:43:43	raptor	protecting the castle, huh?
15:43:47	watusimoto	you betcha
15:44:07	watusimoto	when the big earthquake comes, my house will be more defendable against the starving hordes
15:44:40	raptor	is your part of oregon that seismically active?
15:44:43	watusimoto	we can use the trenches to pass unseen between the safehouse and the bunker
15:44:58	raptor	here in utah, we know we're due for an earthquake any moment now
15:45:35	watusimoto	Yes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia_subduction_zone
15:45:45	watusimoto	The Cascadia subduction zone can produce very large earthquakes ("megathrust earthquakes"), magnitude 9.0 or greater, if rupture occurs over its whole area.
15:45:48	watusimoto	we're overdue
15:45:58	watusimoto	most likely this will happen in the next 50 years
15:46:12	watusimoto	based on historic records
15:46:42	raptor	oh wow... that's a lot of land that will move
15:46:49	watusimoto	The feared next major earthquake has some geologists predicting a 10% to 14% probability that the Cascadia Subduction Zone will produce an event of magnitude 9 or higher in the next 50 years;[15] however, the most recent studies suggest that this risk could be as high as 37% for earthquakes of magnitude 8 or higher.[16][17]
15:47:09	watusimoto	Portland will be leveled
15:47:13	raptor	huh, i had no idea about that region...
15:47:24	watusimoto	no one did until fairly recently
15:47:32	watusimoto	which is why our buildings are so unprepared
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15:48:25	raptor	we've known for a while here - most buildings are prepared... at least in this valley; although, i'm not sure we're expection an 8-9 magnitude - i think it's supposed to be 7-8
15:48:38	watusimoto	just hope that yellowstone doesn't blow
15:48:46	raptor	hah
15:48:48	watusimoto	in which case you'd be toast
15:48:55	raptor	what movie was that, that had that again?
15:48:58	watusimoto	but then... maybe better to get it over with
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15:49:26	raptor	ah yes - '2012'
15:49:27	watusimoto	it's not a movie scenario
15:49:41	watusimoto	or at least not one I'm aware of
15:49:48	raptor	^^ that one
15:50:32	raptor	it had some wierd science-y premise for lots of bad natural disasters; one of which was yellowstone supervolcano
15:50:43	watusimoto	ah, ok, I think I remember that
15:50:55	watusimoto	the volcano is real of course
15:51:04	watusimoto	though probably safe for the moment
15:51:15	raptor	yeah
15:51:25	raptor	time to colonize mars... just in case
15:52:30	watusimoto	I'm not entirely sure I buy that
15:52:38	watusimoto	but I'd support it for other reasons
15:52:40	watusimoto	so let's go!
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15:53:09	raptor	we'd have to crash an ice-filled asteroid into it first, then wait for the kinetic energy to dissipate over a few millenia... :)
15:53:37	watusimoto	there is some ice on mars
15:53:47	raptor	not enough!
15:54:00	raptor	i think i read that idea in the book '3001'
15:54:14	raptor	part of the '2001: space odyssey' series
15:54:17	watusimoto	haevn't read that... arthur c clarke?
15:54:20	watusimoto	ok
15:54:47	raptor	yeah, humanity had started terraforming... but with really long term planning
15:55:08	watusimoto	btw, I tried compiling with physfs, and had to do include full paths to the include files and such
15:55:14	watusimoto	and still couldn't get it to compile
15:55:33	raptor	what? I tested it with vc++ 2010 right before I committed
15:55:40	watusimoto	how did you test?
15:55:54	raptor	I did a fresh cmake build with a new vc++ solution
15:56:11	raptor	then just did 'build' on 'bitfighter'
15:56:13	watusimoto	did you actually add any physfs code? e.g. initialize the lib or something?
15:56:18	raptor	oh no
15:56:26	raptor	just made sure linking, etc. would work
15:56:33	watusimoto	the build itself is not broken
15:56:44	watusimoto	I only have problems when I try to use physfs
15:57:00	raptor	hmmm...
15:57:05	watusimoto	so I think the include paths are a bit mixed up
15:57:14	watusimoto	I didn't have the energy to investigate last night
15:57:25	watusimoto	after all that trenching
15:57:54	raptor	i bet the sharks were difficult to wrangle
15:58:02	watusimoto	also I'm guessing you renamed physfs-cpp.hpp to xxx.h
15:58:10	raptor	oh no -
15:58:22	raptor	I didn't touch any of that
15:58:33	watusimoto	oh
15:58:34	watusimoto	well
15:58:35	watusimoto	then
15:58:47	watusimoto	I need to test something on my end
15:58:52	raptor	i just hooked it up with cmake, made sure it found the library and linked
15:59:16	watusimoto	it may be my fault -- some left over vestiges from my first attempt with physfs before you did your cmake work
15:59:30	watusimoto	so let me look tonight before you worry about it
15:59:32	raptor	to get where you want, could I just drop in the physfs-cpp class?
15:59:40	raptor	ok
15:59:47	watusimoto	I'm not sure
16:00:07	watusimoto	let's discuss tomorrow
16:00:11	raptor	did you modify that one, or is it vanilla from that one github project?
16:00:12	raptor	ok
16:00:34	raptor	yeah, i need to study lin. algebra (despite the welcomed interruption)
16:00:48	watusimoto	it was vanilla, but the github initializer swallows an error that might get thrown from the .c version
16:00:58	watusimoto	so I modified it a tad
16:01:08	watusimoto	but that isn't the issue
16:01:19	watusimoto	ok, well, linearize your algebra
16:01:33	raptor	for what it's worth, the original physfs C header allows calling from c++ anyways
16:01:44	watusimoto	I mostly wanted the stream wrapping
16:01:48	raptor	ah ok
16:02:14	watusimoto	I need to make the level loading go faster, and perhaps streaming it in from the files directly will be faster than my current method of reading the whole level to a string
16:03:02	watusimoto	probably I need to move string-level parsing/file loading to streams
16:03:07	raptor	maybe... but i've clocked stream operations at a good 50x slower in some cases
16:03:30	watusimoto	well right now to read a level we stream it to a string, then break the string into lines, then parse them
16:03:40	watusimoto	we could just take the stream and do a series of readline calls
16:03:51	watusimoto	(this is a 020 thing, not 019x)
16:03:54	raptor	but using the actuall c++ stream libraries? or just reading in a bugger?
16:03:56	raptor	*buffer
16:04:16	watusimoto	I don't understand the question
16:04:23	watusimoto	I want to use the stream libs
16:04:36	watusimoto	now we pass a string to the level parser
16:04:37	raptor	i.e. using the c++ stream libs with all their >> blah >> endl; etc
16:04:42	watusimoto	I want to pass a stream to the level parser
16:04:47	raptor	vs the C way with char arrays, etc.
16:04:53	raptor	the c++ way is 50x slower
16:04:59	watusimoto	ah, I see
16:05:16	watusimoto	I want to use readline() with the stream
16:05:24	watusimoto	don't know about the performance of that
16:05:40	raptor	c++ stream stuff is much nicer, easier to maintain, etc.
16:05:49	watusimoto	I don't want to use any >>> stuff
16:05:53	watusimoto	oops >>
16:06:07	raptor	but at a high cost of performance - i think they do lots of exception checking, too which slows it waay down
16:06:11	raptor	ah ok
16:06:16	raptor	well i'm not sure, then
16:06:37	watusimoto	open file, assign it to an fstream, while(readline()) { parse level line }
16:07:03	raptor	hmmm... that's pretty basic. maybe it'll be ok
16:07:16	watusimoto	now it's open file; read file to string(); break string into vec<string>; parse each line
16:07:46	raptor	oh, yeah - that seems it may be slow
16:07:48	watusimoto	that's got to be way slower
16:08:09	raptor	here's one interesting post: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12997131/stdfstream-buffering-vs-manual-buffering-why-10x-gain-with-manual-buffering
16:08:17	watusimoto	I did that so we could share code with the method that starts with a string (a possibility in 020 -- load a level from a string)
16:09:08	raptor	oh wait, that's not it
16:09:56	watusimoto	I can see if I can do manual buffering from a string
16:10:11	watusimoto	but this is not an area I have much practice with
16:10:41	raptor	this says it's still fast: http://lemire.me/blog/archives/2012/06/26/which-is-fastest-read-fread-ifstream-or-mmap/
16:11:01	raptor	i bet that using the string() method like you do is adding a lot of overhead with auto-buffering
16:11:45	watusimoto	yes, and parsing the level files to break into lines, and such
16:12:52	raptor	oh man, portland is toast (reading about the subduction zone)
16:13:55	watusimoto	looks like the c++ method is the fastest, in his case
16:14:03	watusimoto	yeah, we're toast
16:14:15	watusimoto	our bridges will mostly collapse, my house will collapse
16:14:51	watusimoto	anyone in the neighborhood where I work who happens to be on the street will get killed by flying broken glass, as the windows fall off htis building:
16:15:16	watusimoto	http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/US_Bancorp_Tower_from_Burnside_-_Portland,_Oregon.JPG
16:15:46	watusimoto	and so on
16:15:46	raptor	oh wow - is that an older building?
16:16:06	watusimoto	early 80s
16:16:11	watusimoto	it won't collapse
16:16:17	watusimoto	but the facade will
16:20:59	watusimoto	If you want to kill some time, and learn more about our fate... http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/the-first-four-minutes/Content?oid=5766214
16:21:22	raptor	hah - nice picture
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20:45:32	raptor	watusimoto: i'm testing physfs.cpp - did you just put it in the zap/ folder?
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21:05:13	raptor	found the issue!
21:05:16	raptor	i shall fix
21:17:39		BFLogBot Commit: c7fd33ac5c \| Author: buckyballreaction \| Message: Fix missing physfs include in search paths
21:17:42	raptor	fixed!
21:17:49	raptor	ok, you should be good to go watusimoto
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21:41:04	watusimoto	ok, I'm heading home... will test tonight (and try to do more of the release checklist!)
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22:10:35		BFLogBot Commit: 04ef8884ee \| Author: buckyballreaction \| Message: Fix finding PhysFS on case-sensitive platforms
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22:43:57		BFLogBot Commit: b07918e81c \| Author: buckyballreaction \| Message: Silence a CMake warning (for now)
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