Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
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| 02:56:58 | Skybax | watusimoto, a screenshot would just show someone shooting my ship, but if you could see it in-game, it could shoot my ship forever and I would never take any damage |
| 02:58:14 | Nothing_Much | Skybax, Dude wat |
| 03:02:11 | Skybax | Hi |
| 03:02:21 | Nothing_Much | Did you find a glitch or somethin'? |
| 03:03:15 | Skybax | Yeah, the ship is bigger than the hitbox. It wouldn't affect gameplay at all but Fordcars and I found a part where he could shoot me and I wouldn't take any damage |
| 03:03:24 | Skybax | Like the weapon would break on my ship and I'd be fine |
| 03:03:39 | Skybax | It's miniscule but still there |
| 03:03:45 | Nothing_Much | Skybax, Can I see? |
| 03:04:50 | Skybax | Okay lol |
| 03:08:03 | Skybax | Join my server |
| 03:08:35 | Nothing_Much | Skybax, Yer pin |
| 03:08:36 | Nothing_Much | nvm |
| 03:32:12 | Nothing_Much | brb |
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| 03:34:51 | Nothing_Much | So uh.. |
| 03:35:04 | Nothing_Much | Logitech F310 controller support needed |
| 03:35:29 | Nothing_Much | Can I do it myself or would that require a programmer? :< |
| 03:46:27 | Nothing_Much | Looks like Bitfighter has an issue detecting the controller's fire buttons |
| 03:56:07 | Nothing_Much | Hmm.. |
| 03:56:09 | Nothing_Much | Actually |
| 03:56:18 | Nothing_Much | Those are raw input buttons, since the bottom shoulder buttons are analog |
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| 14:01:09 | Skybax | Hellooo |
| 14:06:53 | watusimoto | hi |
| 14:09:40 | Skybax | Did you see what I said yesterday? |
| 14:10:23 | Skybax | Actually I guess the logs say it was today lol |
| 14:10:26 | Skybax | Very early today |
| 14:16:28 | watusimoto | no |
| 14:16:32 | watusimoto | I did not |
| 14:17:11 | watusimoto | ok, saw it now |
| 14:17:29 | watusimoto | so the bursts appear to hit your ship, but do no damage? |
| 14:17:47 | watusimoto | they explode and everything? |
| 14:17:49 | Skybax | Well not bursts, but phasers and bouncers, yes |
| 14:18:10 | watusimoto | who was shooting? |
| 14:18:34 | Skybax | First it was Fordcars |
| 14:18:44 | Skybax | On the Pleadies server |
| 14:18:52 | watusimoto | and both of you saw the same thing? |
| 14:18:55 | Skybax | Yes |
| 14:19:03 | watusimoto | 109e? |
| 14:19:05 | watusimoto | 019e? |
| 14:19:08 | Skybax | Yes |
| 14:19:19 | watusimoto | ok, I can try to reproduce, but here is what I think might have happened |
| 14:19:34 | Skybax | It's probably existed in previous releases but we just found it now cause we were fooling around |
| 14:19:36 | watusimoto | each ship has 2 positions; an "actual" position and a "render" position |
| 14:19:54 | watusimoto | the system tries to keep these the same, but sometimes they can drift a little |
| 14:20:24 | watusimoto | it is what allows your machine to anticipate what the server is giong to do, and reduces the appearance of lag |
| 14:20:49 | watusimoto | damage and such is always computed on the server, and the server uses the acutal position for all that |
| 14:21:08 | Skybax | So it's possible for the render position to show my ship getting hit but the actual position is farther away? |
| 14:21:22 | watusimoto | but if your machine's render position is slightly different, your machine will show the bullet as hitting you, evne when the server is saying "no" |
| 14:21:39 | watusimoto | imagine the consequences of not doing it that way |
| 14:22:10 | watusimoto | if your machine does not anticipate the hit, and waits for the server to confirm the hit, then it would look like the bullets were going through you a little, because of lag |
| 14:22:30 | Skybax | Yeah that happens on really laggy servers lol |
| 14:22:54 | watusimoto | or if your machine "added back" the bullets it thought hit you but the server said didn't... you'd have bullets appearing after it looked like they hit you |
| 14:23:18 | watusimoto | or if you let the client make the final decision about what constitutes a hit... instant cheat possibilities |
| 14:23:38 | watusimoto | (and disagreements over the exact position of the ship/bullets, and who makes the final decision) |
| 14:23:55 | watusimoto | so things that can trigger actual and render pos to be out of sync: |
| 14:24:22 | watusimoto | tiny movements (I think there is a lower threshold of stuff to send tot he client to prevent overload) |
| 14:24:44 | watusimoto | but if things get too far out of sync, the computer will just move your ship to the correct position |
| 14:25:13 | watusimoto | (so sometimes you can get the computer to make your ship "drift" or jump a little) |
| 14:25:29 | watusimoto | (well, drift) |
| 14:25:48 | Skybax | Makes sense |
| 14:25:53 | watusimoto | (that's how, in older versions, the flags would "drift" back to their starting point in games like CTF) |
| 14:26:30 | watusimoto | the server would just reset the actual pos of the flag to their starting point, and the clients would drift the render pos of the flag to get them synced back up |
| 14:26:59 | Skybax | That's why you could pick up the flag again even before it had drifted all the way back |
| 14:27:03 | watusimoto | that's why you could pick up the flag at its starting point even as it appeared to be floating towards that location and could be some distance off |
| 14:27:10 | watusimoto | (most visible on large maps) |
| 14:27:16 | watusimoto | (and, I think , now fixed) |
| 14:27:24 | Skybax | :D |
| 14:27:27 | watusimoto | yes, exactly |
| 14:27:50 | watusimoto | so I think what you saw was probably an artifact of this issue |
| 14:28:05 | Skybax | It seems that way |
| 14:28:07 | watusimoto | we could perhaps try lowering the threshold for the sending of smaller moves |
| 14:28:48 | watusimoto | you can probably try all this yourself by opening two windows on your machine, and looking at what happens when you move a tiny amount in one window; what happens to the ship in the other? |
| 14:29:18 | watusimoto | you can make it especially visible by adding simulated lag (from the cmd line, or perhaps with a /lag option that I cant' remember if we added) |
| 14:29:35 | watusimoto | (if we added it, it will be in the help, towards the last page) |
| 14:30:24 | watusimoto | with a high lag (500ms or so), you can make all kinds of weird stuff happen |
| 14:31:19 | watusimoto | and it's just the least bad option of what's available in an untentable situation... that is, trying to keep a dispersed cluster of computers reacting to quick events in sync over a laggy network |
| 14:31:31 | watusimoto | it's like the matrix... flaws appear if you know where to look |
| 14:31:48 | watusimoto | now please eat that blue pill |
| 14:32:17 | Skybax | Haha xD |
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| 16:10:18 | raptor | good day! |
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| 17:12:25 | Nothing_Much | Regarding today's early chatlog, I think the only thing that should "drift" and be reset would be rabbit, because the flag may go out of the map or in an unreachable area... or people just couldn't find it. |
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| 20:07:16 | watusimoto | hey raptor |
| 20:11:29 | raptor | oh hi |
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| 21:32:52 | watusimoto | hey... well, going home! |
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| 23:49:16 | Nothing_Much | Thing |