#bitfighter IRC Log

IRC Log for 2015-06-05

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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15:41:14 fordcars Hey watusimoto, if you have time
15:41:25 fordcars const char *name = "Blalalalalblla"
15:41:27 fordcars foo(std::string(name));
15:41:44 fordcars Transforms name into an std::string for the function foo(), right?
15:42:17 fordcars Compiles fine, just wondering
16:19:16 Skybax has joined
16:19:41 Skybax Hello peoples
16:20:15 Skybax What's up fordy fordcars
16:20:23 fordcars Hey Skyabxy
16:20:39 fordcars Nothing much
16:22:00 Skybax No he's not here
16:23:48 fordcars Lol
16:27:29 Skybax Any progress on the laser tag??
16:40:20 Skybax Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
17:20:40 Lamp89 has joined
17:20:48 Lamp89 hai
17:29:04 fordcars Skybax, haven't worked on it since haha
17:29:25 fordcars Oh yes I have
18:02:10 Lamp89 Today is my birthday
18:02:50 Lamp89 :E
18:04:24 fordcars Happy bday Lamp89!
18:04:34 Lamp89 thanx
18:21:26 Lamp89 Quit ()
18:33:23 watusimoto hi fordcars
18:33:44 watusimoto yes, it will work
18:33:49 watusimoto but there are easier ways
18:33:58 watusimoto foo(name) will also work
18:34:07 watusimoto it will implicitly convert it during the function call
18:34:24 watusimoto but even better just to use strings all the time, and avoid const char *
18:34:37 watusimoto (we don't do that in BF, but we should!)
19:11:43 fordcars You should?
19:11:46 fordcars Ok, thanks!
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20:38:16 watusimoto fordcars: use string when you can
20:38:34 watusimoto it might be a tad less efficient, but only a tad, and it's much harder to hang yourself with it
20:38:46 fordcars std::strings are fun
20:38:55 watusimoto when you pass a string to a function, make the function sig look like this:
20:39:03 watusimoto fun(const string &param)
20:39:05 watusimoto not
20:39:10 watusimoto fun(string param)
20:39:14 fordcars Why?
20:39:20 watusimoto that will make passing much more efficient
20:39:34 fordcars Ok, I'll try that out
20:39:41 watusimoto in the first, you are essentially passing a pointer (a reference, actually), which is 4 bytes on a 32 bit system
20:40:02 watusimoto in the second, you are duplicating the string in memory, which for small strings isn't too bad, but for big ones is slow
20:40:16 watusimoto if your function doesn't modify the string, the first is much better
20:40:19 fordcars What's the difference between a reference and a pointer?
20:40:36 watusimoto lots of subtle things
20:40:42 watusimoto the concepts are generally the same
20:40:46 watusimoto a reference cannot be null
20:40:54 watusimoto a reference will clean itself up
20:41:08 watusimoto string xxx;  // will be automatically deleted when it goes out of scope
20:41:27 watusimoto string *xxx = new string();// will leak memory if you don't clean  it up
20:41:40 watusimoto do the first, unless you have a specific reason not to
20:41:49 fordcars Yes, so I've heard
20:41:54 fordcars I also heard of unique_ptr
20:42:15 fordcars A pointer that calls the deconstructor of the class when the scope ends
20:42:20 watusimoto not sure about that... sounds like a boost pointer thing
20:42:26 fordcars It's in std now
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20:42:30 watusimoto we use some of those in bf, but not unique_ptr
20:42:33 watusimoto ah, I see
20:42:41 watusimoto we use shared_ptr sometiems
20:42:46 watusimoto that also cleans itself up
20:42:48 fordcars Yeah, tried it once, pretty much a way to not forget to clean memory
20:42:59 fordcars Ah ok
20:43:03 watusimoto but a reference is even better, unless you can't use one for some specific reason
20:43:21 watusimoto (like you need to be able to have a value of NULL)
20:43:43 fordcars int number = 5; is a reference?
20:43:58 watusimoto no, that's just a POD variable (Plain Old Data)
20:44:04 watusimoto it's just a simple variable
20:44:09 fordcars Or CoolClass var = new CoolClass(); ?
20:44:17 watusimoto that won't compile
20:44:24 fordcars Oh, uh no ()
20:44:29 watusimoto CoolClass *var = new CVoolClass();
20:44:31 watusimoto or better
20:44:38 watusimoto CoolClass var;
20:44:53 watusimoto because the second is a reference, and the first is a pointer
20:44:55 watusimoto which leaks
20:45:00 fordcars And CoolClass var(params); works right?
20:45:09 watusimoto basically don't use new unless you really have to
20:45:25 watusimoto and if you have to, wrap it in a unique_ptr or some other smart pointer class
20:45:34 watusimoto yes, that will work
20:46:02 fordcars Ok nice
20:46:14 watusimoto when I write code, if I need to use "new", I always add a comment about where and when it will be cleaned up
20:46:25 watusimoto that helps me check that I really did it when I come back later
20:46:41 watusimoto it also reminds me to cleanup
20:46:54 watusimoto and it adds to the friction, so I'm less likely to use new in the first place
20:46:59 fordcars Right
20:47:04 watusimoto it makes me think "do I really need this?"
20:47:11 watusimoto sometimes you do... but usually not
20:47:33 fordcars And if you have a class, and have a member of that class to hold an instance of another class
20:47:43 fordcars You use a reference too?
20:47:47 watusimoto sur
20:47:48 watusimoto sure
20:47:56 fordcars Nice
20:48:01 watusimoto class xxx {
20:48:08 watusimoto otherclass yyy;
20:48:09 watusimoto }
20:48:18 watusimoto works just fine
20:48:42 watusimoto when an instance of xxx is created, an otherclass is also created
20:49:04 watusimoto and when your instance goes out of scope, the otherclass will get cleaned up too
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20:49:40 fordcars Whoa
20:49:45 fordcars Wait
20:49:52 fordcars You can write
20:49:55 fordcars class xxx{
20:50:09 fordcars otherclass yyy("Hi");
20:50:10 fordcars }
20:50:17 fordcars And it'll work? or nah
20:50:17 watusimoto sure
20:50:35 watusimoto when you do:
20:50:40 fordcars Wow, so the constructor can be empty
20:50:41 watusimoto xxx abc;
20:51:18 watusimoto you can then access abc.yyy.whatever_methods_are_here
20:51:32 watusimoto you get a "default" constructor
20:51:44 watusimoto that does nothing
20:52:46 fordcars Uh
20:53:04 fordcars Oh
20:53:09 fordcars Ok
20:53:26 fordcars So, you don't need to write a constructor?
20:53:29 fordcars with xxx abc;
20:58:02 watusimoto https://ideone.com/IlM23i
20:58:23 watusimoto no
20:58:31 watusimoto that's working code, btw
20:59:10 watusimoto click edit, then the green button
20:59:32 fordcars Ohh nicey
20:59:52 fordcars Uh, would you call that lazy initialization?
20:59:56 fordcars Just throwing that out there
21:00:02 watusimoto no
21:00:11 watusimoto that's something very different
21:00:16 fordcars Hah ok
21:01:26 fordcars So inner is created automatically, even if there isn't one constructor. That's cool
21:01:45 fordcars But what if you wanted to give arguments to outer,
21:02:15 fordcars you would need to redefine inner?
21:02:37 watusimoto that lazy init -->  https://ideone.com/IlM23i
21:02:48 watusimoto no
21:02:48 fordcars Sorry wait
21:03:16 fordcars Say you need the creator of Outer to give an argument to Inner
21:04:04 watusimoto Now outer has a constructor
21:04:05 watusimoto https://ideone.com/IlM23i
21:05:52 watusimoto one way to do that:
21:05:52 watusimoto https://ideone.com/IlM23i
21:06:02 watusimoto (no longer lazy inits)
21:08:33 fordcars Whoa, what does that : do?
21:08:43 fordcars Sorry for asking so many questions
21:10:53 watusimoto you create an OUter with the param 777
21:11:09 watusimoto that calls the constructor, passing 777 as x
21:11:29 watusimoto the constructor, before it runs, passes 777 to the constructor for inner
21:11:33 watusimoto inner'
21:11:48 watusimoto s constructor runs, and stores 777 in value param
21:12:09 watusimoto then when you call outer.inner.printme(), you see that the value 777 has been stored in outer's copy of inner
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21:12:57 watusimoto http://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial/initialization-lists-c++.html
21:13:50 fordcars And you can't do Outer(int x) : inner = 5 { }, say inner was an int?
21:16:08 watusimoto you would write that as
21:16:18 watusimoto Outer(int x) : inner(5)
21:16:33 watusimoto but you really gain nohting by initializing a POD variable in an initializer
21:16:51 watusimoto some people like to do it; I don't.  I think it is ugly
21:17:24 fordcars Apparently it's useful for const
21:17:43 watusimoto In that article," Initialization Lists and Primitive Types" discusses that question a bit
21:17:57 fordcars Yeah I am checking that out right now
21:18:01 fordcars Taking notes :P
21:18:14 watusimoto soon it will be second nature
21:18:23 watusimoto and may eventually (almost) make sense
21:18:33 watusimoto c++ is a weird language
21:18:35 fordcars I hope so!
21:18:43 fordcars It's tougher than javascript
21:18:54 watusimoto in some ways
21:19:04 fordcars Javascript is nuts
21:19:05 watusimoto in some ways easier
21:20:39 fordcars I don't get javascript in some ways
21:20:39 fordcars for(_='atZMZh.YYsin(X*Xe/8W++)V>s;sVUfor(TUToSXo)R255Q256P&QOO*PN16L=0;KKL>J)+&&),]=>><<10|a+p+4210943TsK],=[L*p[9858122,1-,63+Rfunction([d]ImageDZa(var =-1;2>	)*n+(e()*(n);TdK3>d;dVp;e[l++=e,t,n){returnYrandom()1023
21:20:48 fordcars That code is perfectly valid
21:20:51 watusimoto Looks good!
21:20:54 fordcars And without resources, makes this:
21:21:01 fordcars http://js1k.com/2014-dragons/demo/1854
21:21:30 fordcars This is pretty much magic
21:21:34 watusimoto yup
21:21:56 fordcars Oh wait it has textures I think
21:22:34 fordcars I didn't write that btw :P
21:23:20 fordcars Oh, and one last question (maybe)
21:23:34 fordcars Uh, do I need include guards?
21:23:45 fordcars I have a small cmake project here
21:23:50 fordcars And haven't used include guards
21:27:00 watusimoto what are guards?
21:27:06 watusimoto I'm not really a cmake guy
21:27:15 watusimoto I'm probably at about your level... maybe less
21:27:15 fordcars Uh
21:27:21 fordcars I mean in c++
21:27:30 fordcars But I thought there was a link with cmake
21:27:39 watusimoto ok... what are guards in c++?
21:27:44 fordcars Uh,
21:28:04 fordcars If you don't know, I probably don't need them :P but here
21:28:15 fordcars http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Include_guard
21:28:33 fordcars Say I have a class in a .h that takes std::strings in some methods
21:28:35 watusimoto yes, you need them
21:28:38 fordcars I need to have #include <string>
21:29:05 watusimoto you can include <string> more than once... it will have guards inside it
21:29:11 fordcars Oh
21:29:21 watusimoto the fact you need them at all is a flaw in the language
21:29:22 fordcars That makes it a bit more complicated now though
21:29:56 watusimoto why?
21:30:36 fordcars Oh well, since it only affects .h individually, it's not that bad
21:30:47 fordcars I thought you need some stuff from where it was included
21:31:08 watusimoto no
21:31:24 watusimoto look over that wiki article again
21:31:53 watusimoto they save you from worrying about including the same file more than once
21:32:04 fordcars Does Bitfighter use them>?
21:32:05 watusimoto a problem that, I think, the compiler should handle for you, but doesn't
21:32:10 watusimoto yes
21:32:13 watusimoto in every .h file
21:32:14 fordcars Never say one of them
21:32:19 fordcars Wow, I have a bad eye
21:32:24 watusimoto you never looked :-)
21:32:52 fordcars Oh you're right
21:33:32 fordcars Ok, so they are around the whole file
21:33:38 watusimoto yes
21:33:44 watusimoto they're kind of a pain
21:34:53 fordcars If you look at that WIkipedia page: if father.h used somethings defined in grandfather.h, like foo, it would work?
21:35:05 fordcars Welp I guess it would
21:42:02 watusimoto yes -- that's why father includes it
21:42:23 fordcars Right
21:42:31 watusimoto including is really the same as making a copy and inserting it where your #include is
21:42:41 watusimoto an exact byte-for-byte copy
21:42:49 watusimoto it's exactly what the compiler does
21:42:54 watusimoto then it interprets the result
21:43:17 watusimoto include something twice with no guards, you'll get the same thing twice
21:43:36 watusimoto include it twice with guards, you'll only get the first copy -- the second will be discarded
21:44:05 fordcars Oh man, that actually makes sense
21:44:07 watusimoto if you're unclear why, try it in a text editor and see what the results look like
21:44:26 watusimoto the guards let you not worry about including it more than once by accident
21:44:52 fordcars So, technically, you should only include each .h files once?
21:45:37 watusimoto yes
21:45:47 watusimoto unless you want two copies of whatever is in there
21:45:51 watusimoto which you don't
21:45:59 watusimoto but you don't need to worry about it
21:46:04 watusimoto because everyone adds guards
21:46:14 watusimoto because it would be a huge pain if you didn't
21:46:59 fordcars Nice
21:47:15 fordcars Thanks for answering my questions, it really helped
21:50:19 watusimoto you're welcome
21:56:01 amgine123 has joined
21:56:14 amgine123 hello wattsimo anything new to test ?
21:56:21 amgine123 any new half way builds ?
22:00:26 watusimoto no nothing right now...
22:00:29 watusimoto I have to run!
22:00:53 watusimoto has left #bitfighter
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15:41:14	fordcars	Hey watusimoto, if you have time
15:41:25	fordcars	const char *name = "Blalalalalblla"
15:41:27	fordcars	foo(std::string(name));
15:41:44	fordcars	Transforms name into an std::string for the function foo(), right?
15:42:17	fordcars	Compiles fine, just wondering
16:19:16		Skybax has joined
16:19:41	Skybax	Hello peoples
16:20:15	Skybax	What's up fordy fordcars
16:20:23	fordcars	Hey Skyabxy
16:20:39	fordcars	Nothing much
16:22:00	Skybax	No he's not here
16:23:48	fordcars	Lol
16:27:29	Skybax	Any progress on the laser tag??
16:40:20		Skybax Quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
17:20:40		Lamp89 has joined
17:20:48	Lamp89	hai
17:29:04	fordcars	Skybax, haven't worked on it since haha
17:29:25	fordcars	Oh yes I have
18:02:10	Lamp89	Today is my birthday
18:02:50	Lamp89	:E
18:04:24	fordcars	Happy bday Lamp89!
18:04:34	Lamp89	thanx
18:21:26		Lamp89 Quit ()
18:33:23	watusimoto	hi fordcars
18:33:44	watusimoto	yes, it will work
18:33:49	watusimoto	but there are easier ways
18:33:58	watusimoto	foo(name) will also work
18:34:07	watusimoto	it will implicitly convert it during the function call
18:34:24	watusimoto	but even better just to use strings all the time, and avoid const char *
18:34:37	watusimoto	(we don't do that in BF, but we should!)
19:11:43	fordcars	You should?
19:11:46	fordcars	Ok, thanks!
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20:38:16	watusimoto	fordcars: use string when you can
20:38:34	watusimoto	it might be a tad less efficient, but only a tad, and it's much harder to hang yourself with it
20:38:46	fordcars	std::strings are fun
20:38:55	watusimoto	when you pass a string to a function, make the function sig look like this:
20:39:03	watusimoto	fun(const string &param)
20:39:05	watusimoto	not
20:39:10	watusimoto	fun(string param)
20:39:14	fordcars	Why?
20:39:20	watusimoto	that will make passing much more efficient
20:39:34	fordcars	Ok, I'll try that out
20:39:41	watusimoto	in the first, you are essentially passing a pointer (a reference, actually), which is 4 bytes on a 32 bit system
20:40:02	watusimoto	in the second, you are duplicating the string in memory, which for small strings isn't too bad, but for big ones is slow
20:40:16	watusimoto	if your function doesn't modify the string, the first is much better
20:40:19	fordcars	What's the difference between a reference and a pointer?
20:40:36	watusimoto	lots of subtle things
20:40:42	watusimoto	the concepts are generally the same
20:40:46	watusimoto	a reference cannot be null
20:40:54	watusimoto	a reference will clean itself up
20:41:08	watusimoto	string xxx; // will be automatically deleted when it goes out of scope
20:41:27	watusimoto	string *xxx = new string();// will leak memory if you don't clean it up
20:41:40	watusimoto	do the first, unless you have a specific reason not to
20:41:49	fordcars	Yes, so I've heard
20:41:54	fordcars	I also heard of unique_ptr
20:42:15	fordcars	A pointer that calls the deconstructor of the class when the scope ends
20:42:20	watusimoto	not sure about that... sounds like a boost pointer thing
20:42:26	fordcars	It's in std now
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20:42:30	watusimoto	we use some of those in bf, but not unique_ptr
20:42:33	watusimoto	ah, I see
20:42:41	watusimoto	we use shared_ptr sometiems
20:42:46	watusimoto	that also cleans itself up
20:42:48	fordcars	Yeah, tried it once, pretty much a way to not forget to clean memory
20:42:59	fordcars	Ah ok
20:43:03	watusimoto	but a reference is even better, unless you can't use one for some specific reason
20:43:21	watusimoto	(like you need to be able to have a value of NULL)
20:43:43	fordcars	int number = 5; is a reference?
20:43:58	watusimoto	no, that's just a POD variable (Plain Old Data)
20:44:04	watusimoto	it's just a simple variable
20:44:09	fordcars	Or CoolClass var = new CoolClass(); ?
20:44:17	watusimoto	that won't compile
20:44:24	fordcars	Oh, uh no ()
20:44:29	watusimoto	CoolClass *var = new CVoolClass();
20:44:31	watusimoto	or better
20:44:38	watusimoto	CoolClass var;
20:44:53	watusimoto	because the second is a reference, and the first is a pointer
20:44:55	watusimoto	which leaks
20:45:00	fordcars	And CoolClass var(params); works right?
20:45:09	watusimoto	basically don't use new unless you really have to
20:45:25	watusimoto	and if you have to, wrap it in a unique_ptr or some other smart pointer class
20:45:34	watusimoto	yes, that will work
20:46:02	fordcars	Ok nice
20:46:14	watusimoto	when I write code, if I need to use "new", I always add a comment about where and when it will be cleaned up
20:46:25	watusimoto	that helps me check that I really did it when I come back later
20:46:41	watusimoto	it also reminds me to cleanup
20:46:54	watusimoto	and it adds to the friction, so I'm less likely to use new in the first place
20:46:59	fordcars	Right
20:47:04	watusimoto	it makes me think "do I really need this?"
20:47:11	watusimoto	sometimes you do... but usually not
20:47:33	fordcars	And if you have a class, and have a member of that class to hold an instance of another class
20:47:43	fordcars	You use a reference too?
20:47:47	watusimoto	sur
20:47:48	watusimoto	sure
20:47:56	fordcars	Nice
20:48:01	watusimoto	class xxx {
20:48:08	watusimoto	otherclass yyy;
20:48:09	watusimoto	}
20:48:18	watusimoto	works just fine
20:48:42	watusimoto	when an instance of xxx is created, an otherclass is also created
20:49:04	watusimoto	and when your instance goes out of scope, the otherclass will get cleaned up too
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20:49:40	fordcars	Whoa
20:49:45	fordcars	Wait
20:49:52	fordcars	You can write
20:49:55	fordcars	class xxx{
20:50:09	fordcars	otherclass yyy("Hi");
20:50:10	fordcars	}
20:50:17	fordcars	And it'll work? or nah
20:50:17	watusimoto	sure
20:50:35	watusimoto	when you do:
20:50:40	fordcars	Wow, so the constructor can be empty
20:50:41	watusimoto	xxx abc;
20:51:18	watusimoto	you can then access abc.yyy.whatever_methods_are_here
20:51:32	watusimoto	you get a "default" constructor
20:51:44	watusimoto	that does nothing
20:52:46	fordcars	Uh
20:53:04	fordcars	Oh
20:53:09	fordcars	Ok
20:53:26	fordcars	So, you don't need to write a constructor?
20:53:29	fordcars	with xxx abc;
20:58:02	watusimoto	https://ideone.com/IlM23i
20:58:23	watusimoto	no
20:58:31	watusimoto	that's working code, btw
20:59:10	watusimoto	click edit, then the green button
20:59:32	fordcars	Ohh nicey
20:59:52	fordcars	Uh, would you call that lazy initialization?
20:59:56	fordcars	Just throwing that out there
21:00:02	watusimoto	no
21:00:11	watusimoto	that's something very different
21:00:16	fordcars	Hah ok
21:01:26	fordcars	So inner is created automatically, even if there isn't one constructor. That's cool
21:01:45	fordcars	But what if you wanted to give arguments to outer,
21:02:15	fordcars	you would need to redefine inner?
21:02:37	watusimoto	that lazy init --> https://ideone.com/IlM23i
21:02:48	watusimoto	no
21:02:48	fordcars	Sorry wait
21:03:16	fordcars	Say you need the creator of Outer to give an argument to Inner
21:04:04	watusimoto	Now outer has a constructor
21:04:05	watusimoto	https://ideone.com/IlM23i
21:05:52	watusimoto	one way to do that:
21:05:52	watusimoto	https://ideone.com/IlM23i
21:06:02	watusimoto	(no longer lazy inits)
21:08:33	fordcars	Whoa, what does that : do?
21:08:43	fordcars	Sorry for asking so many questions
21:10:53	watusimoto	you create an OUter with the param 777
21:11:09	watusimoto	that calls the constructor, passing 777 as x
21:11:29	watusimoto	the constructor, before it runs, passes 777 to the constructor for inner
21:11:33	watusimoto	inner'
21:11:48	watusimoto	s constructor runs, and stores 777 in value param
21:12:09	watusimoto	then when you call outer.inner.printme(), you see that the value 777 has been stored in outer's copy of inner
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21:12:57	watusimoto	http://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial/initialization-lists-c++.html
21:13:50	fordcars	And you can't do Outer(int x) : inner = 5 { }, say inner was an int?
21:16:08	watusimoto	you would write that as
21:16:18	watusimoto	Outer(int x) : inner(5)
21:16:33	watusimoto	but you really gain nohting by initializing a POD variable in an initializer
21:16:51	watusimoto	some people like to do it; I don't. I think it is ugly
21:17:24	fordcars	Apparently it's useful for const
21:17:43	watusimoto	In that article," Initialization Lists and Primitive Types" discusses that question a bit
21:17:57	fordcars	Yeah I am checking that out right now
21:18:01	fordcars	Taking notes :P
21:18:14	watusimoto	soon it will be second nature
21:18:23	watusimoto	and may eventually (almost) make sense
21:18:33	watusimoto	c++ is a weird language
21:18:35	fordcars	I hope so!
21:18:43	fordcars	It's tougher than javascript
21:18:54	watusimoto	in some ways
21:19:04	fordcars	Javascript is nuts
21:19:05	watusimoto	in some ways easier
21:20:39	fordcars	I don't get javascript in some ways
21:20:39	fordcars	for(_='atZMZh.YYsin(XXe/8W++)V>s;sVUfor(TUToSXo)R255Q256P&QOOPN16L=0;KKL>J)+&&),]=>><<10\|a+p+4210943TsK],=[Lp[9858122,1-,63+Rfunction([d]ImageDZa(var =-1;2> )n+(e()*(n);TdK3>d;dVp;e[l++=e,t,n){returnYrandom()1023
21:20:48	fordcars	That code is perfectly valid
21:20:51	watusimoto	Looks good!
21:20:54	fordcars	And without resources, makes this:
21:21:01	fordcars	http://js1k.com/2014-dragons/demo/1854
21:21:30	fordcars	This is pretty much magic
21:21:34	watusimoto	yup
21:21:56	fordcars	Oh wait it has textures I think
21:22:34	fordcars	I didn't write that btw :P
21:23:20	fordcars	Oh, and one last question (maybe)
21:23:34	fordcars	Uh, do I need include guards?
21:23:45	fordcars	I have a small cmake project here
21:23:50	fordcars	And haven't used include guards
21:27:00	watusimoto	what are guards?
21:27:06	watusimoto	I'm not really a cmake guy
21:27:15	watusimoto	I'm probably at about your level... maybe less
21:27:15	fordcars	Uh
21:27:21	fordcars	I mean in c++
21:27:30	fordcars	But I thought there was a link with cmake
21:27:39	watusimoto	ok... what are guards in c++?
21:27:44	fordcars	Uh,
21:28:04	fordcars	If you don't know, I probably don't need them :P but here
21:28:15	fordcars	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Include_guard
21:28:33	fordcars	Say I have a class in a .h that takes std::strings in some methods
21:28:35	watusimoto	yes, you need them
21:28:38	fordcars	I need to have #include <string>
21:29:05	watusimoto	you can include <string> more than once... it will have guards inside it
21:29:11	fordcars	Oh
21:29:21	watusimoto	the fact you need them at all is a flaw in the language
21:29:22	fordcars	That makes it a bit more complicated now though
21:29:56	watusimoto	why?
21:30:36	fordcars	Oh well, since it only affects .h individually, it's not that bad
21:30:47	fordcars	I thought you need some stuff from where it was included
21:31:08	watusimoto	no
21:31:24	watusimoto	look over that wiki article again
21:31:53	watusimoto	they save you from worrying about including the same file more than once
21:32:04	fordcars	Does Bitfighter use them>?
21:32:05	watusimoto	a problem that, I think, the compiler should handle for you, but doesn't
21:32:10	watusimoto	yes
21:32:13	watusimoto	in every .h file
21:32:14	fordcars	Never say one of them
21:32:19	fordcars	Wow, I have a bad eye
21:32:24	watusimoto	you never looked :-)
21:32:52	fordcars	Oh you're right
21:33:32	fordcars	Ok, so they are around the whole file
21:33:38	watusimoto	yes
21:33:44	watusimoto	they're kind of a pain
21:34:53	fordcars	If you look at that WIkipedia page: if father.h used somethings defined in grandfather.h, like foo, it would work?
21:35:05	fordcars	Welp I guess it would
21:42:02	watusimoto	yes -- that's why father includes it
21:42:23	fordcars	Right
21:42:31	watusimoto	including is really the same as making a copy and inserting it where your #include is
21:42:41	watusimoto	an exact byte-for-byte copy
21:42:49	watusimoto	it's exactly what the compiler does
21:42:54	watusimoto	then it interprets the result
21:43:17	watusimoto	include something twice with no guards, you'll get the same thing twice
21:43:36	watusimoto	include it twice with guards, you'll only get the first copy -- the second will be discarded
21:44:05	fordcars	Oh man, that actually makes sense
21:44:07	watusimoto	if you're unclear why, try it in a text editor and see what the results look like
21:44:26	watusimoto	the guards let you not worry about including it more than once by accident
21:44:52	fordcars	So, technically, you should only include each .h files once?
21:45:37	watusimoto	yes
21:45:47	watusimoto	unless you want two copies of whatever is in there
21:45:51	watusimoto	which you don't
21:45:59	watusimoto	but you don't need to worry about it
21:46:04	watusimoto	because everyone adds guards
21:46:14	watusimoto	because it would be a huge pain if you didn't
21:46:59	fordcars	Nice
21:47:15	fordcars	Thanks for answering my questions, it really helped
21:50:19	watusimoto	you're welcome
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21:56:14	amgine123	hello wattsimo anything new to test ?
21:56:21	amgine123	any new half way builds ?
22:00:26	watusimoto	no nothing right now...
22:00:29	watusimoto	I have to run!
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