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sky_lark

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Post Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:15 pm

Percentages

Ok, here's an off-the-walls idea. It's a little complicated but I think it might appeal to the competitive and tactical players.

This is intended to be a Bitmatch feature, but it might work in Rabbit. I think it could be extended to other modes too but it would need modification.

Each player is given a percentage that replaces their score. To win, one player must achieve a percentage of 60%. The most any player could theoretically get is 100%.

When a player gets a kill, they are awarded 2% on their meter. Partial kills -- dealing 50% damage to enemies -- award the player with 1%. Let me be clear about partial kills. By 50%, I mean half of the "hit points" required to eliminate an enemy at full health. If an enemy you run into is already down to 50% health, then killing them would be considered a partial kill despite actually eliminating them. Additionally, if a player only had like 10% health then killing them would result in no percentage gain. This provides incentive to go after full-health players instead of weak ones.

If every player had independent meters, then this would be a game to 30 (60% / 2% per kill = 30, and ignoring partial kills). The catch -- and dynamic game element -- is that all players actually share a meter.

In a small game this would not affect gameplay for the first few minutes. Player percentages would grow, each taking a bite out of the 100% but it'd be a couple minutes before the percentage meter actually affected gameplay. This should be perceived as a good thing (first few minutes are "practice") but if people think it's boring then perhaps the kill percentage could increase from 2% to a greater number for smaller games.

When all of the available 100% has been assigned, the fun begins. When a player kills another, the 2% or 1% is stolen from the dead player and gifted to the shooter(s). (Plural in case of a partial kill from another shooter.)

In time, player percentages will naturally separate due to skill differences. For example, after a few minutes of battling a scoreboard might look like this:

- Zoomber 36%
- sam686 32%
- Drex 16%
- sky_lark 9%
- watusimoto 3%
- raptor 3%
- bobdaduck 1%

In a normal game of Bitmatch, these scores would likely mean that sky_lark, watusimoto, raptor, and bobdaduck are hopelessly doomed, Drex has a chance of coming back, and Zoomber or sam will likely compete for the victory.

With percentages, players can come back -- or at least make a dent on the leaders -- by focusing their kills on certain players. For example, if watusimoto chose to kill bobdaduck, that wouldn't really be helpful, since wat would only get a max of 1% in return for his efforts. And after that bobdaduck would provide literally no value to enemies who kill him.

But if watusimoto tracked down and attacked zoomber or sam, he'd get THEIR percentages. Not only would zoomber/sam be temporarily stopped from advancing but they'd also actually lose percentage, giving greater opportunity for a comeback to the other players.

I think this kind of incentive would help balance Bitmatch by putting greater pressure on the skilled players, and making winning a little more difficult. A truly skilled player would choose his/her enemies wisely and climb the percentage ladder to reach 60%.

One potential concern is that leading players would simply hide and protect their percentages, only coming out to kill rookies and the like. (Remember though, to gain percentage 50% of damage must be yielded, so the leading players can't just pick on weak players.)

I can think of four solutions.

1. I think this would provide an opportunity for the frequently-discussed "combo-kill" to make an appearance. Combo-kills -- aka multiple kills achieved in a short time period, without dying -- would motivate those at the top of the leader board to continue a battle with nearby players instead of simply fleeing after only one dude is killed. This could perhaps be indicated by a countdown timer of 10 seconds, where the player has ten seconds after killing one enemy to initiate another battle (read: battle, not necessarily kill) before their combo-kill possibility dissipates. Successful combo kills would provide some kind of advantage to players, like an escalating percentage as more kills are recorded.

2. The second method I call "bounty." It would replace or complement combo-kills. If the leader player(s) (plural in case of tied percentages) do not kill every 30 or so seconds, a bounty is placed on their ship. This is displayed as a banner or in the chat for all players to see. Anyone who kills the player in subject achieves the bounty reward: additional percentage taken. To remove a bounty, the player in subject must simply kill someone else, and then they have 30 seconds to do it again or get placed with a bounty, and so on so forth. Note that this would only apply for the player(s) in first place or in the first few places so that lower level players don't get screwed.

3. The third method, like before, would either supplement or complement the other ideas. It would occur during combo-kills as an added advantage, or would occur solely during what I call a "blitz." Blitzes last roughly 15 seconds and during that time, any kills achieved would result in additional percentage taken from the leading players, despite who was actually killed. However, to not overly screw the lead player this additional percentage would only be stolen if the lead player is unable to kill at least one other person during the Blitz mode. This is my least favorite idea because it doesn't directly address the problem of hiding, but others might like it.

So that's it. To summarize, players grab percentages from either a shared bank or from enemies. Players can choose to fight the guy right next to them, but they may not find much value in it, so they can track down and focus on the bigger fish. Lower level players would find satisfaction with last-minute game "saves" by preventing the leading players from victory, and upper level players would enjoy the increased challenge of winning.

What do you think? Is there actually a concept here or did I just kill 30 minutes typing up this massive post? ;)

edit: clarity
Last edited by sky_lark on Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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bobdaduck

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Post Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:40 pm

Re: Percentages

I resent that hypothetical situation.

I really like the idea, actually. It sounds hard to program in though, and if it was I think it should be more of a seperate gamemode. (conqueror?)
Little_Apple wrote:DnD: the REAL bitfighter levelgen documentation

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sky_lark

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Post Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:27 pm

Re: Percentages

Haha, sorry buddy. ;)

I was thinking more along the lines of a "challenge" toggle (think hardcore in the call of duty series), but a separate game mode would be awesome too. Conqueror sounds like a great name.
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CleverBot

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Post Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:56 pm

Re: Percentages

bobdaduck wrote:I resent that hypothetical situation.

I laughed so hard. :lol:

Also, the OP is quite massive, very massive. Maybe call the game mode Behemoth after this Behemoth of posts and the goal of the game mode is to be the Behemoth of bitfighters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behemoth
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sky_lark

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Post Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:08 pm

Re: Percentages

To be fair, I didn't think I could provide a sufficient case for the feature request if I compressed it heavily.
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kaen

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Post Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:00 pm

Re: Percentages

sky_lark wrote:One potential concern is that leading players would simply hide and protect their percentages, only coming out to kill rookies and the like.


For convenience, let's call a player with more than 50% of the available "percentage" a "dominant player". Basically, one who could win by waiting out the game and hiding from everyone.

sky_lark wrote:I can think of four solutions.

1. ... Successful combo kills would provide some kind of advantage to players, like an escalating percentage as more kills are recorded.


Doing anything beyond score bonuses would be a second massive game mechanic change in addition to the main one you're proposing. Score bonuses themselves have a potential complication: where do the bonus points come from? If they magically appear from nowhere, then you've broken the Conservation of these scores (they total greater than 100%). If you take them from the defeated player like normal, just faster, then you're not really addressing the issue of a dominant player. (As a side note, it would be almost impossible to correctly detect when a true "battle" has started. Consider things like stray fire and near misses.)

sky_lark wrote:2. ... If the leader player(s) ... do not kill every 30 or so seconds, a bounty is placed on their ship.


This is a promising way to address dominant players. It does not provide a guarantee that a dominant player will be punished for leading, but does provide strong impetus for other players to hunt him out as a competitive group. If the disadvantage of leading is too great, however, it will encourage sandbagging (i.e. hanging in second or third or (n-1)th place until the end of the game to avoid the penalty of leading).

sky_lark wrote:3. ... Blitzes [which] last roughly 15 seconds and during that time, any kills achieved would result in additional percentage taken from the leading players, despite who was actually killed....


See again my note about potential sandbagging (here it's a lot easier to go from 1st to 2nd than from 2nd to 3rd). However, to me it seems this does address the issue of hiding, since a leading player will be punished for not making kills, and also for leading at all.

sky_lark wrote:What do you think? Is there actually a concept here...?


In short: I don't not think so. From a technical standpoint, this would be straightforward to implement as a new game mode, but not as a checkbox style option for existing ones. So basically, it's feasible with a few restrictions.

Next, from a gameplay standpoint, it definitely offers an interesting take on not just Bitfighter, but on competitive real-time action games in general. It would be interesting if you could find a precedent for this mechanic, and maybe a brief case study of how it worked out.

I think I see the problem you are trying to solve, although I have a hard time articulating it. For this reason I can not actually evaluate if your proposed solution would work. I need to know why this is better, not just different.

Finally, as someone who's put in a handful of commits, I know you'll have to convince someone to write it (or write it yourself; I don't know your skillset). Personally, I wouldn't write it because there's a running buglist, a bug tracker, unofficial bug reports, planned features, current experimental features, refactoring, and general upkeep of running an open source project that all needs to be done right now.

It occurred to me after some thought that this is similar to a more metered version of Nexus, but without the goal zone mechanics.
bobdaduck wrote:Next, the moon!

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watusimoto

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Post Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:25 am

Re: Percentages

there's a running buglist, a bug tracker, unofficial bug reports, planned features, current experimental features, refactoring, and general upkeep of running an open source project that all needs to be done right now.


Don't forget the list I have on a sheet of paper on my couch, or the running list I keep in my head!
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amgine

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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:57 pm

Post Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:03 pm

Re: Percentages

all things must come with time though we can wait. =)

quality over quantity. =)

BTW i like the idea. i have no objections to it.
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sam686

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Post Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:14 pm

Re: Percentages

What a complicated game type that have problems.
1. Players with over 50% can use "/idle" to stay winning.
2. No indication of which ships are useless to kill for higher percent.
3. Mostly the same as BitMatch if sum of percent is not 100.
4. Players who leave makes sum of percent no longer 100.
5. Due to possible complication, might not work with having 2 Teams.
6. Can't reach winning score? Having to rely on time limit alone.
7. 50 Kills needed to use all 100%, but all kills combined rarely goes above 50 in less then 5 players.

With mostly the lack of having any players online on Bitfighter, this complicated game type might be not so useful.
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amgine

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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:57 pm

Post Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:13 pm

Re: Percentages

hmm ill have to see if i can think of a solution.
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