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Should Weapon Friednly Fire Be Removed? (Weapon Balancing)

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amgine

Posts: 1289

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:57 pm

Post Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:13 pm

Should Weapon Friednly Fire Be Removed? (Weapon Balancing)

So as a semi experienced player for bitfighter I see the flaws for various game mechanics and gameplay one of the problems I see is lack of varity of weapons in matches and wonder would removing friednly fire for this help the gameplay I will briefly go over some weapons that am I am looking at for this.

1. Bouncer a slightly less used weapon it's not used far to often due to streams of shots boucning around and hitting the user killing him removing this would allow it to be more viable as players could use it in closed maps without having to worry about harming themselves. Would probably need a slight fire rate nerf.

2. Burst This would allow to burst to be used as a Knockback weapon or for crowd control in groups as players could rush in and knock players away defending something without worrying about taking damage. Would Probably give it a damage Reduction to 2 and energy usage increase to 15%

3. Mines Ah Mines Probably the least useful weapon in the game not only would taking away self damage away allow it do be placed down and hamper teammates and yourself (and prevent trolling) making it so it is unaffected by teammates would give it the unique ability to be placed defensively while teammates can fly / shoot over it allowing it to be defensive or a Crowd Control Weapon. Energy Redicution to 25-20%

4. Seeker One Of the Biggest Problems With the Seeker is its spam ability hurts it as deflecting to many shots will cause the player who launched them to die and in situations where multiple players are using them its hard to survive Removing Friendly Fire Would mean they could be used more strategically to hit players around corners without worrying about dying. would give Energy usage increase to 33% and damage to 33%

What Do You Guys Think?
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Lamp

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Post Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:19 pm

Re: Should Weapon Friednly Fire Be Removed? (Weapon Balancin

but then how do you kill yourself
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amgine

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Post Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:18 am

Re: Should Weapon Friednly Fire Be Removed? (Weapon Balancin

Lamp wrote:but then how do you kill yourself


You Dont.
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Skybax

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Post Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:02 pm

Re: Should Weapon Friednly Fire Be Removed? (Weapon Balancin

No to everything.

Friendly fire is purposefully there to give each weapon a weakness. If we removed all weapon nerfs then it would be over powered.
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Fordcars

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Post Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:29 pm

Re: Should Weapon Friednly Fire Be Removed? (Weapon Balancin

Lamp wrote:but then how do you kill yourself
skybax: Why is this health pack following me?
bobdaduck: uh, it likes you.
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amgine

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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:57 pm

Post Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:29 am

Re: Should Weapon Friednly Fire Be Removed? (Weapon Balancin

But as is certain weapons are useless because of it.

all you really would need is aslight buff to ships hp to acomodate this maybe from like 5-7....

would also notably give more room for weapon balancing in the game.

Skybax wrote:No to everything.

Friendly fire is purposefully there to give each weapon a weakness. If we removed all weapon nerfs then it would be over powered.


Nice argument with no discussion whatsoever btw.
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Quartz

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Post Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Should Weapon Friednly Fire Be Removed? (Weapon Balancin

OK, here's your discussion.

None of the weapons are useless because of friendly fire. You're stating that as if it's a fact, yet it's a highly-subjective opinion (as evidenced by the fact everyone in this thread disagrees with you).

How bad would it be if people could spam Seeker with zero consequences? There's already precious little potential consequence for it, and that seems about balanced.

Bouncer puts the user in a lot of danger, and that also seems justifiable because if everyone could just haphazardly spam it everywhere that would be bad.

Burst is OP as all hell. Enough said.

Mines are the only weapon you mention that sort of has a friendly fire issue – it can kill your teammates, and that's ... well.
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raptor

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Post Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:28 pm

Re: Should Weapon Friednly Fire Be Removed? (Weapon Balancin

Quartz wrote:it can kill your teammates, and that's ... well

Entertaining!
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Quartz

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Post Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:17 pm

Re: Should Weapon Friednly Fire Be Removed? (Weapon Balancin

raptor wrote:
Quartz wrote:it can kill your teammates, and that's ... well

Entertaining!

I think it's hilarious, yeah, but it's kind of a problem too :lol:
Exploits of Quartz and bobdaduck - My maps on Pleiades
Current self-serving quote:
raptor wrote:sometimes I think getting Quartz to use plugins is like getting my mom to use a computer
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amgine

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Post Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:00 pm

Re: Should Weapon Friednly Fire Be Removed? (Weapon Balancin

Quartz wrote:OK, here's your discussion.

None of the weapons are useless because of friendly fire. You're stating that as if it's a fact, yet it's a highly-subjective opinion (as evidenced by the fact everyone in this thread disagrees with you).

How bad would it be if people could spam Seeker with zero consequences? There's already precious little potential consequence for it, and that seems about balanced.

Bouncer puts the user in a lot of danger, and that also seems justifiable because if everyone could just haphazardly spam it everywhere that would be bad.

Burst is OP as all hell. Enough said.

Mines are the only weapon you mention that sort of has a friendly fire issue – it can kill your teammates, and that's ... well.


and your acting like weapons can't be balanced seekers are only op cause you can click spam them over 11 times before running out of energy if they were made so you could only fire them like 7 times before having to recharge people would have to use them wisely. like aiming like shooting them at specific angles to hit people around corners Same go for burst which have a AOE which mauybe would be limited to 3 shots you really could even increase the AOE if you wanted or make it so you can choose when it wouldn't detonate even then sheilds armor and repair exist which all lower damage and makes them more useful in the game


And bursts could easily have a damage nerf from 3-2 damage or you could increase the life cap to 7 or even adjust the energy usage all facts you're completely ignoring with no discussion what so ever like it's impossible

and you're pretending it wouldn't make certain weapons more viable in the game like mines or bouncer which are less useful. due to the fact it only purpose is to hurt your own team (mines) and can't be shot cause it hurts yourself more than your opponent (bouncer)

it says something about a game's balance when 1 weapon dominates the meta the only weapons that are really common is phaser burst and seekers and nothing else is rarely used.

nice argument there bud.
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Quartz

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Post Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:31 am

Re: Should Weapon Friednly Fire Be Removed? (Weapon Balancin

amgine, do you see opinions that differ from your own as some sort of hostile attack? I'm a little baffled.
amgine wrote:and your acting like weapons can't be balanced

amgine wrote:you're completely ignoring with no discussion what so ever like it's impossible

On the contrary, nothing I said implies the weapons shouldn't be balanced in other ways. I just don't think removing friendly fire is the answer to those balance issues.

I also tend to contribute heavily to weapon balance discussions.
amgine wrote:seekers are only op cause you can click spam them over 11 times before running out of energy if they were made so you could only fire them like 7 times before having to recharge people would have to use them wisely. like aiming like shooting them at specific angles to hit people around corners

Seekers are very rarely overpowered though. They're only good on certain maps, or in team fights from random angles while the enemy player is focusing most of their attention on someone besides the person firing Seekers. They're more of a crowd control/zoning weapon than anything, and I actually think the Bitfighter developers did an awesome job making Seekers situational but powerful in the right time and place – way better than the Zap! devs did when they created weapons no one sane ever used.
amgine wrote:and you're pretending it wouldn't make certain weapons more viable in the game like mines or bouncer which are less useful. due to the fact it only purpose is to hurt your own team (mines) and can't be shot cause it hurts yourself more than your opponent (bouncer)
I won't pretend – removing friendly fire might make those weapons more viable as you say (I do think Mines shouldn't damage teammates, and should in fact be impervious to them – the troll/tilt potential with Mines is ridiculous and has been since forever), but I really don't think that's the right decision for Bouncer and Seeker. The reflect mechanic on Seeker is neat and keeps users on their toes, and Bouncer is spammed haphazardly enough as is – no need to make it even more obnoxious.

In short, I agree with you that Mines shouldn't damage teammates and should only be triggered by the user of the Mine and enemies.
amgine wrote:it says something about a game's balance when 1 weapon dominates the meta the only weapons that are really common is phaser burst and seekers and nothing else is rarely used.

Bitfighter is pretty much Phaser and Burst 24/7, and I agree that says a lot about the game's balance. 100% with you on this.

It's scary to think alternate weapons have actually gotten a tiny bit more popular since Zap! days. It used to be much worse.
amgine wrote:nice argument there bud.
I think we're having a lovely discussion where we voice differing opinions that are both totally valid. No sarcasm.
Exploits of Quartz and bobdaduck - My maps on Pleiades
Current self-serving quote:
raptor wrote:sometimes I think getting Quartz to use plugins is like getting my mom to use a computer

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