Bitfighter Forums

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:49 am**

Quartz wrote:I would really like a negative-number function for the projector/turret regeneration.

Meaning the turrets and force fields would kill themselves over time..?

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:53 am**

Skybax wrote:
Quartz wrote:I would really like a negative-number function for the projector/turret regeneration.

Meaning the turrets and force fields would kill themselves over time..?

Yessir. You'd have to hold the repair beam down on something for a time to assure that it would stay active for a while. Not good for every map, obviously, but it could be useful.

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:17 pm**

Quartz wrote:Yessir. You'd have to hold the repair beam down on something for a time to assure that it would stay active for a while. Not good for every map, obviously, but it could be useful.

That sounds like a repair-noob's nightmare

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:05 pm**

sky_lark wrote:quartz - that's... actually a really cool idea. Strengthens the importance of repair. But, I feel that as weak as turrets and forcefields are, degeneration would worsen their value tremendously. What do you think?

That's sort of the point; To have turrets that are less valuable than normal, non-degenerative turrets.

(Although yes, Turrets need a buff. Or rather, an un-nerf. So that projectiles bounced off a shield don't kill them. Epic f**kin' fail, that's all I'm gonna say on that one xD)

Let's look at it as two extremes:

As a level designer, when I'm debating putting a turret somewhere, I think "will it be obnoxiously powerful to put one here (probably ANOTHER one that is, no *one* turret is going to make things obnoxiously powerful, but putting several together gets ugly fast) or is it balanced?" If I lean towards yes it will be too powerful, I won't put a turret there. If I lean towards no, I will. If I'm really caught between, what am I going to do? As it stands I only have the two extremes of put one there or not. With degenerative turrets I would have a middle ground.

I'd be willing to actually put degenerative turrets/projectors in BMs, "Nexus," and Soccer, for instance, because you essentially have to actually be in the turret's vicinity tending to it for it to work. This makes said items far less frustrating. I basically never put turrets/projectors in those gametypes because I feel that they are unbalanced (Soccer) or simply frustrating for players (BM and Nexus).

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:16 pm**

I can agree with most of your points, but I think as a player I'd be less inclined to try to heal a turret at my own expense if it's slowly losing health.

At some point I'd weigh the advantage of having the turret at all (like you said, just one turret isn't going to do much, so there'd have to be a couple) versus what I could do with my own phasers and a turret that is already weak to begin with, let alone have degeneration, would not weigh significantly in my decision.

Completely agree, though, that turrets need a boost. I tend to stay out of the discussion of minute balance changes - but this I think is really necessary.

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:39 am**

sky_lark wrote:I can agree with most of your points, but I think as a player I'd be less inclined to try to heal a turret at my own expense if it's slowly losing health.

At some point I'd weigh the advantage of having the turret at all (like you said, just one turret isn't going to do much, so there'd have to be a couple) versus what I could do with my own phasers and a turret that is already weak to begin with, let alone have degeneration, would not weigh significantly in my decision.

That's the point. It's a luxury. It would be the last thing you would concern yourself with using your energy towards ... meaning you would focus your efforts in all other aspects before the turrets. Meaning you wouldn't be some repair-spamming nub who can't even aim their ship.

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:16 pm**

That is exactly right. But why is that a good thing? Turrets may not be integral to our survive (ie. luxury), but they still play an important role - in fun, if nothing else. I like the concept of degeneration, but I'd hate to think that it somehow discourages people from repairing turrets.

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:29 pm**

sky_lark wrote:That is exactly right. But why is that a good thing? Turrets may not be integral to our survive (ie. luxury), but they still play an important role - in fun, if nothing else. I like the concept of degeneration, but I'd hate to think that it somehow discourages people from repairing turrets.

+1

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:46 pm**

Has obviously never fought against a strategically placed burst turret

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:56 pm**

bobdaduck wrote:Has obviously never fought against a strategically placed burst turret

+1

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:51 pm**

Yeah healing stuff is already unfair enough why make it more unfair.

Posted: **Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:41 am**

You guys have seen the game balance and design of my levels and you still don't trust me on this ... God, what exactly do I HAVE to do to prove to y'all I know what I'm talking about?

Posted: **Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:34 am**

@bobdaduck - ok, that's fair. I was mostly talking about traditional turrets and hadn't really considered turrets using alternative weapons.

But... even then. I like turrets, I like fighting against them. Turrets firing bursts or seeker and actually damaging me? Great, bring it on. Rarely do I get killed by an individual turret anyway. Point is, make life harder for the attacker, not the defender.

Of course, this all varies depending on the level design... I can appreciate that quartz might be able to draw up a map that puts lots of power into turrets and justifies degeneration. But I'm not sure the same could be said for most mapmakers. That's not because most mapmakers aren't skilled, rather, I think it's just a reality thing; most maps today tend to underpower instead of overpower turrets.

[Worth noting that I don't oppose the addition of degeneration - I'd just like to see turrets get built up before they get knocked down.]

Posted: **Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:39 am**

In 019 bullets reflected by shield will no longer damage turrets, making turrets much harder to kill.

Posted: **Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:55 am**

bobdaduck wrote:In 019 bullets reflected by shield will no longer damage turrets, making turrets much harder to kill.

Oh thank Jesus

sky_lark wrote:@bobdaduck - ok, that's fair. I was mostly talking about traditional turrets and hadn't really considered turrets using alternative weapons.

Ya, in my case I would probably use degenerative with Triple/Seeker Turrets. I'd like to use Burst Turrets more but their short range combined with huge area of effect makes them ... interesting, to say the least. xD

sky_lark wrote:[Worth noting that I don't oppose the addition of degeneration - I'd just like to see turrets get built up before they get knocked down.]

[I'm with ya there, really. Although other than the fix being implemented in 019 (thank goodness), if I want turrets buffed at all I want them buffed in a creative way not a number buff.]

Mostly I'm a little pissed at people who are simple-minded enough to think the only reason anything should be in the game is because "it's powerful" and to have anything that's not more powerful or more useful is a worthless idea. Are you serious..?

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