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Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:30 am
by amgine
I think bitfighter looking all techno instead of drab will attract more players.

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:19 pm
by YoshiSmb
Oh men, that caught my eye for a second!

Devs, Any new's here?

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:15 pm
by Fordcars
Sadly, to make Bitfighter have really cool graphics, the devs would need to port it to OpenGL 2 I believe, which requires a lot of work. I think that it might happen someday though!

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:05 pm
by amgine
It would look cool though ;)

would te effects be naustiating though ?

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:57 am
by YoshiSmb
No idea :|
Shaders should be created as scripts like Ford said.

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:16 pm
by amgine
I still think this should happen even if its a setting.

BUMP.

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:53 pm
by kaen
Just to clear up a few misconceptions:

Shaders (and rendering) utilize the GPU, a special chip similar to a CPU used only for graphics. Shaders are unlikely to negatively impact CPU.

Shaders deinterlace the drawing routines, so that we do a bunch of CPU stuff followed by a long stretch of GPU stuff. Normal rendering switches between GPU and CPU frequently, which is slower than doing the jobs in larger batches. Shaders can also disable or circumvent unused parts of the rendering pipeline that traditional rendering wastes time on. All of this to say that shaders can actually improve performance on modern desktops.

A prototype shader system was completed years ago, and was demonstrated to be working. It was never integrated into the mainline because there was not enough interest or time, and the community seemed opposed to graphical changes. The upfront time investment is minimal, perhaps a days worth of work.

The prototype system has a simple "off switch" that disables shaders and returns to "normal" rendering (you don't even have to restart the game). It also allows configuring specific graphical effects, so that you can turn them off and adjust the quality for each shader effect that would be introduced.

Finally, shader source code does not need to be compiled into the binary. This means you could edit specific shaders the same way you do lua scripts, making it easy for the community to contribute to their development.

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:40 pm
by watusimoto
A prototype shader system was completed years ago, and was demonstrated to be working.
It was??

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:39 pm
by Fordcars
kaen wrote:Just to clear up a few misconceptions:

Shaders (and rendering) utilize the GPU, a special chip similar to a CPU used only for graphics. Shaders are unlikely to negatively impact CPU.

Shaders deinterlace the drawing routines, so that we do a bunch of CPU stuff followed by a long stretch of GPU stuff. Normal rendering switches between GPU and CPU frequently, which is slower than doing the jobs in larger batches. Shaders can also disable or circumvent unused parts of the rendering pipeline that traditional rendering wastes time on. All of this to say that shaders can actually improve performance on modern desktops.

A prototype shader system was completed years ago, and was demonstrated to be working. It was never integrated into the mainline because there was not enough interest or time, and the community seemed opposed to graphical changes. The upfront time investment is minimal, perhaps a days worth of work.

The prototype system has a simple "off switch" that disables shaders and returns to "normal" rendering (you don't even have to restart the game). It also allows configuring specific graphical effects, so that you can turn them off and adjust the quality for each shader effect that would be introduced.

Finally, shader source code does not need to be compiled into the binary. This means you could edit specific shaders the same way you do lua scripts, making it easy for the community to contribute to their development.


KAEEENNNN! Yeah, it was implemented by kaen, raptor showed it to me. But kaen, isn't that impossible with OpenGL 1.2?

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:43 pm
by amgine
not sure but if the version of OGL is outdated we are using why dont we update ?

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:23 pm
by YoshiSmb
BUMP!

We seriously need this, literally.

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 3:55 pm
by amgine
BUMP BUMP

give objects a neon glowly outline :)

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 1:35 pm
by watusimoto
For the record, IA was nearly universally hated for, among other things, its hyped up graphics.

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 3:38 pm
by Fordcars
True, but wouldn't at least a small update be neat?

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 6:05 pm
by amgine
I think now that people are more willing to have the Graphcs (even if it is a setting) It wont be a issue now.

It may even get more players!

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 7:39 pm
by watusimoto
Before e do anything major with the graphics, we need to implement shaders.

When we do so, we will try to make it easy to mod the graphics. Then, if anyone comes up with something great, we can easily add it to a future release.

The downside is that 020 is still a ways off, and the shader work has stalled a bit.

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 9:58 pm
by YoshiSmb
Atleast, give us a screenshot of how the shader would look on BF.
I'm impatiently to see it already! ;)

:zapdance: :zapdance: :zapdance:

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:11 pm
by watusimoto
Well, the first iteration would look exactly (more or less) like what we've got now. At least that would be the goal.

Exciting, I know!

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:49 pm
by Fordcars
If you ever get it working, add a way to have custom shaders please. That would be nutsly amazing.

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:14 pm
by amgine
I honestly Think Fnacy Graphics would look better not worse give the game a nice tron look :)

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:04 pm
by watusimoto
Yes, would definitely want a way to have custom shaders.

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:46 pm
by amgine
In fact why not give the game a tron seel having fading trails behind moving ships and other objects maybe that for another thread though

Probley would be another setting..... ;)

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:39 pm
by YoshiSmb
BUMP!

Don't let this thread die please...
Can you devs also give us a screenshot of how the shaders would look on BF?

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:12 pm
by Fordcars
I hear the devs are getting closer to supporting shaders! I only hear this, however.

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:22 pm
by amgine
Lol I just made myself think of the terrible tron map made with a level gen from way back when anyone still have that?

Would it be possible to have a sprite based system eventully?

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:40 pm
by watusimoto
I'd say we're closer to wanting to support shaders. My problem is I haven't yet really figured out how to apply shaders to our code, so I'm feeling kind of stuck. I've heard that kaen did some work on this, though, which I haven't looked at yet, so maybe the answer is just waiting for me to download.

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:59 pm
by amgine
Hmm would rastering be a option at all ?

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:28 pm
by watusimoto
I don't think that's the direction to go, but I still need to do more research.

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:48 am
by amgine

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:58 pm
by Fordcars
3D is also an interesting direction ;)

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:30 pm
by Skybax
How about pseudo-3D like all the new platforming games coming out..
Where they look like they're in a three dimensional world, and they move like they have three dimensions, but they can still only move along a two dimensional space?

Like what if the Bitfighter ship actually tilted in the direction that it was flying if it was flying a direction different than straight or backwards?

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 3:57 pm
by watusimoto
I think Sam686 created a client with some 3D aspects. It's been a while, so I don't remember the details.

It would definitely be possible to modify the existing client to make this possible. But I am left asking... why?

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:10 pm
by Fordcars
Actually, that is weirdly a good idea amgine had. This could maybe replace all of the fancy neon look we were heading for. We could maybe have a subtle 3D perspectivy look, like while moving or something.

Maybe we could make walls have depth (inwards and outwards so the ship would be in the center)?

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:22 am
by amgine
raptor wrote:
The BF graphics aren't about performance, they're about a certain aesthetic, which is rooted in the old vector graphics arcade game days, now long gone. Games like Tempest, Star Trek, and Star Castle.T


could it be possible to combine both ideas have Pseudo 3d style game play and have it have the tron look or maybe would only one be better?

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:33 pm
by Fordcars
Maybe we could add some fancy CRT effects? This seems really easy. We could virtually copy-paste this.

*If we support shaders!!

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:42 pm
by amgine
Errm no that would take bitfighters quality the other way not forward and improve it. like pseudo 3d or a fancy tron look would why have a cookie when you can have A house sized one?

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:00 am
by Skybax
I'm pretty sure the SNES was a major graphical improvement from the Arcade games that came before it..

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 1:09 pm
by amgine
Maybe there is something I am not understanding here why use lower quality graphics when you can use higher ones?

I think a Tron look with pseudo 3d would be the way to go.

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:54 pm
by watusimoto
Two reasons: 1) "high" quality is harder; 2) part of the game look is to use retro vector graphics (like Asteroids, for example).

Look only as far as Z.A.P. to see the dangers of "enhancing" the graphics.

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:39 am
by amgine
I dont remember what happened from the zap graphics thing it was to long ago remind me again.

One other thing im considering would that make it harder to port to a browser version as well since chrome and edge got rid of using npapi.

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:42 am
by Fordcars
Z.A.P:
zap-550x.jpg
polls_zap_5457_758523_answer_6_xlarge.jpeg

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:41 pm
by Skybax
I actually kinda like that.. makes me think Z.A.P. didn't tank because of the graphics, but the way in which it was presented

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:51 pm
by sky_lark
The graphics are inconsistent. It looks bad because only the ships and weaponry are really glowing. If the walls and background were given more contrast and textures and overall design was more complex, I bet it would have been well-received.

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:26 am
by amgine
Another option im wondering is if realistic space items would be interesting ie ships loops like ships asteroids look more like real ones ect probably would need sprite graphics for that though.

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:43 pm
by Skybax
sky_lark wrote:The graphics are inconsistent. It looks bad because only the ships and weaponry are really glowing. If the walls and background were given more contrast and textures and overall design was more complex, I bet it would have been well-received.

Sooooo let's do that :D

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:42 pm
by amgine
Agreed.

Fordcars is working on this now and making some progress.

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:59 pm
by YoshiSmb
Heh, glad this thread is still alive...

What did i miss after my long hiatus?

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 2:21 pm
by Fordcars
This could eventually be a thing!

Re: Fancy Graphics & Light

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:52 am
by amgine
Tron look :3