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Assigned Teleporters.

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Should This Be Implemented?

Yes.
3
50%
No.
3
50%
 
Total votes : 6
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amgine

Posts: 1314

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:57 pm

Post Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:38 am

Assigned Teleporters.

Hey its amgine.

I think it should be possible to assign Teleporters a team such as with other items.

1. Colored Teleporter : Can be Interacted with only by that teams color.

2. Neutral teleporter : Can be used by everyone.

3. Semi Neutral Teleporter : Is Dead unless repaired Which assigns it to that team. (Is a box with a teleporter symbol.)

4. Hostile Teleporter : Acts like a black hole and destroys all ships on contact :twisted: color is dark grey to black.

5. All special teleporters will be switch state Ie they have a health gauge and can be destoyed and vice versa must be healed to be used.
amgine
Last edited by amgine on Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:06 am, edited 3 times in total.
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sky_lark

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Posts: 1890

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Post Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:09 pm

Re: Assigned Teleporters.

I've thought about this a lot and this is what I came up with:

My biggest gripe with this idea is that it could be exploited. If a team teleporter sends players somewhere inaccessible to the other team, this could easily be taken advantage of in a flag-based game. In CTF, HTF, Retrieve, or Zone Control, as soon as players got a lead they could hide with the flags and stave off the time. In Nexus, players could purposely suicide to artificially garner flags (look at Garfunkle's Claim to Fame for an example of this).

I also don't like how the item might give an extreme advantage to its user. Most levels use teleporters in a public-to-public format, such as in Capture01, where the teleporter inputs and outputs are accessible by both teams. A public-to-public teleporter (a) adds variety to the game, (b) cuts down on travel time, and (c) provides an escape route for fleeing players. Switching a teleporter from shared to team in this format doesn't really affect the impact of (a) or (b), because a team teleporter still adds variety and still cuts down on travel time for its user. But the switch does impact (c). It screws over trailing enemies, who cannot enter the teleporter, and it does not challenge the fleeing player to survive beyond entering the teleporter. It's an easy way out and I don't like how that impacts gameplay.

However, there are interesting uses of a team teleporter in facilitating a two-way "private-to-public" channel. To understand this, consider the current system: An "invincible laserbeam" utilizes a barrier to enclose the emitter, but leaving the laser to poke through. This allows team members access but disallows enemies to cross it or destroy it. This set-up is useful for restricting access to a private spawn or health area, but it's imperfect, because (a) it adds junk to the level and (b) is not guaranteed safe, for a cloaked player can sneak through while an unknowing team member crosses it.

A team teleporter could act as a cleaner and foolproof two-way "private-to-public" channel. Level designers would still need to respect the exploitation concern by either (a) creating a public entrance into the enclosed area or (b) changing the game mode to bitmatch, soccer, or core which are unaffected by the exploitation. So in the case of (a), what's the point of a team teleporter if there's still a public entrance to the base? Well, we've all played games where there's only one entrance to the base and you mine it heavily, only to have a teammate need to cross through and set off your traps. I imagine a team teleporter would bypass that nicely.

So there's potential! Ultimately though I am against the idea, because I'd be too concerned about level designers not respecting the exploitation rule, leading to matches ruined by a crafty player unreasonably taking advantage of the vulnerability. Neat idea though, thanks for the thinktank.
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Quartz

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Post Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:33 pm

Re: Assigned Teleporters.

In response to sky_lark's year old plus argument:

People have plenty of tools to make shitty unbalanced maps already, one more feature that can be used to make shitty unbalanced maps is not going to turn the tide. Cripes.
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tazinator

Posts: 351

Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:35 pm

Post Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:40 pm

Re: Assigned Teleporters.

I like unbalanced maps
Play my new level! Two different teams fight over a nexus: One mainly defends while the other attacks! is fun
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Little_Apple

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Post Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:08 pm

Re: Assigned Teleporters.

tazinator wrote:I like unbalanced maps

<3
Hee-ho!
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amgine

Posts: 1314

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:57 pm

Post Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:59 pm

Re: Assigned Teleporters.

However if you could destory the team mates teleport then you could prevent them for using it for a team making it fairer.
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sky_lark

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Post Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:48 am

Re: Assigned Teleporters.

Quartz wrote:In response to sky_lark's year old plus argument:

People have plenty of tools to make shitty unbalanced maps already, one more feature that can be used to make shitty unbalanced maps is not going to turn the tide. Cripes.

You're not wrong, but I dislike the idea of giving a player what is basically a get out of jail free card. Players can use items around them to escape: teleporter, speedzone, minefield, laserbeam and these work well because they are not invincible. A teleporter and speedzone only provide a buffer of a few seconds, and a minefield or laserbeam can be destroyed with a few seconds of firing. These items are well-balanced: the delay is long enough to allow escape, while short enough to keep the pursuit alive.

A team teleporter that cannot be accessed at all by players of the opposing team provides an escape route but blocks the pursuit entirely. It rewards the fleeing player for an otherwise mundane action. The player didn't work hard to escape, they just went in a team teleporter and that did the work for them. It's an interesting idea, but I think it would limit the action and excitement of a hot pursuit and heavily unbalance aspects of the game.
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YoshiSmb

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Location: Argentina

Post Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:50 pm

Re: Assigned Teleporters.

sky_lark wrote:
Quartz wrote:In response to sky_lark's year old plus argument:

People have plenty of tools to make shitty unbalanced maps already, one more feature that can be used to make shitty unbalanced maps is not going to turn the tide. Cripes.

You're not wrong, but I dislike the idea of giving a player what is basically a get out of jail free card. Players can use items around them to escape: teleporter, speedzone, minefield, laserbeam and these work well because they are not invincible. A teleporter and speedzone only provide a buffer of a few seconds, and a minefield or laserbeam can be destroyed with a few seconds of firing. These items are well-balanced: the delay is long enough to allow escape, while short enough to keep the pursuit alive.

A team teleporter that cannot be accessed at all by players of the opposing team provides an escape route but blocks the pursuit entirely. It rewards the fleeing player for an otherwise mundane action. The player didn't work hard to escape, they just went in a team teleporter and that did the work for them. It's an interesting idea, but I think it would limit the action and excitement of a hot pursuit and heavily unbalance aspects of the game.


And why don't you add a teleport-delay?
for like 1 or 2 seconds, to give the opposing players a chance to catch-up with the fleeing player!
I'm a bit unsure about addin' Team-Teleporters... since you can simply use em' to abuse pretty much everything!
From Energy/Health Teleports to Insta-Escapes routes
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amgine

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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:57 pm

Post Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:12 pm

Re: Assigned Teleporters.

On the other hand if used properly it could make for exelent maps imagine having one way team teleports that can go stright into teh enemy base for fast fights.

Also if you make them desotryable they would have to take time to repait them which would make them more balanced.
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sky_lark

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Post Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:27 am

Re: Assigned Teleporters.

Why couldn't you just do the same with regular teleporters? You can put a teleporter leading into the enemy base for fast fights. If you wanted it to be one team only, just protect it with a laserbeam.

You have many great ideas, but I'm not a fan of this one. I can think of a couple novelty instances in which it might improve levels (Plumbing for one), but I think the potential for negative applications outweigh the potential for positive applications. Ideas like this must be considered with the assumptions that (a) they will be used in normal, non-novelty levels and (b) will be used in very poor designs as well as very good designs. I think the consequences derived from (a) and (b) will be pretty impactful on the game's balance.
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amgine

Posts: 1314

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:57 pm

Post Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:09 pm

Re: Assigned Teleporters.

I feel you argument is unvalid because if you had it so a teleporter could be assinged to a team then you would not have to place a normal teleporter with a laser(s) blocking it which would free up space for better creation on maps.
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sky_lark

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Post Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:54 am

Re: Assigned Teleporters.

Well, my argument is that 99% of the time a team teleporter would give an extreme unfair advantage to one team and thus shouldn't be added. In the rare instances where it can be utilized fairly, perhaps in a novelty level like Plumbing, I think a laserbeam across the front would suffice.
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amgine

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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:57 pm

Post Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:03 am

Re: Assigned Teleporters.

Also It is important to note that the nutrel turrets have to be repaired to be used which severly balances them out as somone can come along and destory it makeing it unusable.

Same Rule Applys to team Teleporters You would have to take time to reapir them as if osmone shoots then they would revert to being unusable its like turrets is it worth the time to heal them if they are going to be desotryed its all about the use.
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sky_lark

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Post Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:02 pm

Re: Assigned Teleporters.

When the team teleporter is healthy, it can be used as a get out of jail free card. The vulnerability of the team teleporter definitely balances it a little, but not enough to justify its inclusion. The problem here is that the chasing player would have no means of destroying the team teleporter to stop the target player before they used the team teleporter. The only way a chasing player could prevent the target from using the team teleporter is if the team teleporter was destroyed before they arrived at the teleporter, which unless you were really good with long range shots, is impossible. Does this make sense?

its all about the use.

Devs presumably wouldn't add a super mega turret that could kill everything in one shot on the notion that it would be utilized "properly" because for every level that used it well, there'd be ten levels that used it poorly. That's the stem of my concern, we shouldn't add dangerous items just on account of maybe a handful of users applying it properly, ya know?
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amgine

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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:57 pm

Post Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:34 pm

Re: Assigned Teleporters.

you still ignored my argument if you made it so it was really easy to kill but took a long time to use it would be balanced.

If you placed 5 turrets that can be healed from one spot or made a turret in a unavoidble spot its over powered yes there are some bitfighter maps that do that where there are to many turrets to win so its unbalnced already.

like quartz said it it al about how you use it people abuse stuff to make s***** unblanced maps already one item wont make a differnce any item can easily be abused its about how you use it.
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watusimoto

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Post Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:23 pm

Re: Assigned Teleporters.

Just saying here... not in favor.
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amgine

Posts: 1314

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:57 pm

Post Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:22 pm

Re: Assigned Teleporters.

You are not in favor now but you will be alsmot every idea I have come up with got implemented sooner or later :P
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