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Teleporter Delay

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:59 am
by Quartz
Teleporter Delay : The greatest thing since sliced bread.

While I have absolutely NO problem just fiddling with the times manually in the text editor*, I'm hoping that the next update will allow mapmakers to utilize this feature inside the level editor in-game.

[ * For those unaware, you can delay a teleporter from becoming usable again like so:
  Code:
Teleporter -892.5 892.5 -637.5 127.5 Delay=6

This causes the teleporter to become active again after six seconds, rather than the usual one second. ]

I see no issue with putting this feature entirely out in the open, as the one oversight surrounding it (which crashed servers) has been resolved. (As ahhh … kaen probably remembers very distinctly)

It's truly a fantastic feature, better allowing mapmakers to modify the flow of gameplay as they see fit. My personal favorite trick is to put a delay on the teleporter that takes players from spawn to the rest of the level, thus effectively giving players a spawn time. Simple, but effective. I'm sure there are many other great potential uses.

Re: Teleporter Delay

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:13 am
by amgine
anyone else here think teleporter delay by default should be 0 and increase from there instead of having to wait like 1 second to enter behind someone?

Also Yes it will be a nice feature for the next build :)

Re: Teleporter Delay

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:53 pm
by Quartz
amgine wrote:anyone else here think teleporter delay by default should be 0 and increase from there instead of having to wait like 1 second to enter behind someone?

Also Yes it will be a nice feature for the next build :)

1. God no.
2. Teleporter delay is capped down at like 0.1 or something. 0 turns into 0.1 as I recall. True 0 teleporter delay had some … exploits, as I mentioned.

Re: Teleporter Delay

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:16 pm
by sky_lark
I don't think teleporter delay by default should be zero, but I do think we should have that option. What were its exploits?

I could see value in a small level where you wanted to isolate the spawn zones from the level but didn't want to keep respawning players out of the action too long. Maybe you want to give players the option to choose where they spawn. Etc.

Re: Teleporter Delay

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:21 pm
by amgine
Or if you want to chase someone who goes trough a tele and not let them get away.....

Re: Teleporter Delay

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:19 pm
by Quartz
sky_lark wrote:I don't think teleporter delay by default should be zero, but I do think we should have that option. What were its exploits?

I could see value in a small level where you wanted to isolate the spawn zones from the level but didn't want to keep respawning players out of the action too long. Maybe you want to give players the option to choose where they spawn. Etc.

You guys need to take my word for this. 0.1 delay is REALLY CLOSE TO 0, practically incomprehensively as fast as 0 to the human eye. Why are you two picking up on THIS detail of the thread when it was such a minor point? Go test it. I guarantee you two will be satisfied with the 0.1 delay and see no need for true 0 delay which just ASKS for exploits to happen.

I made crash maps by making teleporters with absolute 0 delay and putting the origin point same as the exit point. Common sense dictates this would make a computer 'tard out, and it did.

Re: Teleporter Delay

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:44 pm
by amgine
Easy Solution allow for true 0 delay but disallow any teleports in and out points to overlap problem solved.

that .1 time delay DOES make a difference when you are chasing someone they can enter the tele then boost away or mine the exit point...

Re: Teleporter Delay

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:27 am
by Quartz
Fire this up, test it out, then you can debate with me all you want.

  Code:
LevelFormat 2
GameType 10 8
LevelName ""
LevelDescription ""
LevelCredits "Common Sense"
Team Blue 0 0 1
Specials
MinPlayers
MaxPlayers
BarrierMaker 50 -382.5 -382.5 -382.5 382.5 382.5 382.5 382.5 -382.5 -382.5 -382.5
Teleporter 0 -127.5 0 -127.5
Teleporter 0 127.5 0 127.5 Delay=0.1
TextItem -1 -76.5 -229.5 76.5 -229.5 22.979 "Default Delay"
TextItem -1 -76.5 255 76.5 255 31.601 "0.1 Delay"
Spawn 0 -255 0

Re: Teleporter Delay

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:14 pm
by furbuggy
Sounds like a fine feature, and .1 seconds seems fine, if anything a .05 or a .01 limit would be completely unnoticeable. I didn't even know you could adjust the delay.

Re: Teleporter Delay

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:29 pm
by Quartz
Yeah it's something of a little-known feature. I don't even know when it was added lol.

Re: Teleporter Delay

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:08 pm
by sky_lark
For what it's worth, I definitely agree that teleporter delays should be written into the main game. Maybe not a huge priority but I think they're a wonderful feature that should be easily accessible to all.

Re: Teleporter Delay

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:19 pm
by amgine
sky_lark wrote:For what it's worth, I definitely agree that teleporter delays should be written into the main game. Maybe not a huge priority but I think they're a wonderful feature that should be easily accessible to all.


That I will not argue However I'm wondering why settle for .1 why not settle for a time like .01, .001, .0001, ect. basically the minimal possible time that would not crash the game?

Re: Teleporter Delay

PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:58 am
by raptor
amgine, there comes a point where it doesn't matter how short the delay is, it'll still be only about 0.01-0.1 seconds. This is because it is a network game and there are time limitations: the server runs at 100fps or so (0.01 seconds) and each client usually has a ping of ~100ms (0.1 seconds). So it will *never* be instantaneous.

With that said, I think there is a case to be made to set the delay in the editor. I'm going to do some code browsing and see what it'll take.

Even though this was an experimental feature, I think you guys have shown that it actually adds value to the game.

Re: Teleporter Delay

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:12 pm
by amgine
Hooray thank you!

However would it make a difference on people who had a higher ping computer like if someone had a ping of 250 500 750 or 999? that Said I understand time can truly never be instantious.

Re: Teleporter Delay

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:56 am
by Quartz
Someone with a ping that high will see everything in such delay anyhow that an item's difference between 0.1 and 0.01 isn't even going to be distinguishable from the rest of the latency they are experiencing.

(Used to have a constant 150-200 ping back in the dark ages.)

Re: Teleporter Delay

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:52 pm
by amgine
I wonder what would happen if it was possible to enter a negitive integer for teleporter delay.... 8-)

Still I think true 0 delay for teleports would be better as long as you did something like every X one will have a .01 ( or the smallest integer that will prevent crashes.) delay to keep the game from crashing so if someone creates a same spawn point in out tele it wont crash but the integer will be small enough to very noticeable.

Re: Teleporter Delay

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:28 pm
by Fordcars
I think raptor and watusimoto have that figured out though (at 100ms it seems) but in my opinion it doesn't really change much

Re: Teleporter Delay

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:03 pm
by amgine
so will the default be

1 : .01 now and adjustable

2 : Default teleporter speed and adjustable.

Re: Teleporter Delay

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:12 pm
by raptor
I spoke with watusimoto and we'll be implementing this. Teleporter default will stay the same, but the 'Delay' option will be promoted to be changed from the editor.

Re: Teleporter Delay

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:40 pm
by Quartz
raptor wrote:I spoke with watusimoto and we'll be implementing this. Teleporter default will stay the same, but the 'Delay' option will be promoted to be changed from the editor.

Yeahhhh!

Re: Teleporter Delay

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:41 pm
by amgine
Ok thanks for letting us know will this be implemented in version 20 or 20a? or is it undermentioned as of now.

Re: Teleporter Delay

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:14 pm
by raptor
I'm working on it now, for 020.

Re: Teleporter Delay

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:15 pm
by watusimoto
It could be back-ported to 019x, but I don't know if we'll be doing any further releases before 020.

Re: Teleporter Delay

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:21 pm
by Quartz
watusimoto wrote:It could be back-ported to 019x, but I don't know if we'll be doing any further releases before 020.
I don't think I'd bother. The feature's already there, just somewhat inconvenient to use. There's no rush, as far as I'm concerned, you know?

Re: Teleporter Delay

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:26 am
by raptor
This is done!