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Introduce teamed asteroids as an engineerable object

PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:42 pm
by bobdaduck
Imagine if asteroids could actually contribute to gameplay.

Presenting:
Teamed
Engineer-able
Asteroids

How it would work:
- Asteroids are the color of their team. Neutral and hostile asteroids behave the same.
- Teamed asteroids behave as they currently do, except 1) your bullets do not damage them and 2) they do not damage you. You do not collide with them.
- "asteroid" is an option on the engineer menu. It creates a teamed asteroid of normal size and uses standard engineer energy.
- Asteroid spawns can also have teams set, which generate teamed asteroids. These could be used to punish a team for neglecting a choke point, or simply some more fragile stall compared to a forcefield/turret base. I believe it would also feel less annoying to be killed by a teamed asteroid because then at least you know its their base killing you and not just random annoyances the level maker tossed in.

Asteroids already have a team attribute, it just isn't used in any part of code, so at least some of the coding for this would be very quick! Lets do it!

Re: Introduce teamed asteroids as an engineerable object

PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:18 am
by raptor
Please clarify the difference between your 2nd and 3rd options.

Re: Introduce teamed asteroids as an engineerable object

PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:15 am
by Santiago ZAP
will you have to eliminate all the small asteroids and until all of it is destroyed does the resource drop? having tons of stacked asteroids in a single spot (Which, to be honest, would be the fault of the mapmaker) could also make a resource/asteroid bomb, right?

Im completely in favor of it though!


Bonus question, is it too much work to put in the level editor options to limit which maps could have access to it? Just like we have "Allow Engineer module" have a "Allow Engineer asteroids" "Allow Engineer Teleporters"

Re: Introduce teamed asteroids as an engineerable object

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:58 am
by amgine
Quesion I assume this wouldnt include asteroid spawners right.

I could see a big game flow problem of team asteroid spawners making it nearly impossible to invade a base because you would have to try to clear them while shooting enemy ships seems like it would be nearly impossible.

as for regular asteroids im for this I dont see any harm in it.

Re: Introduce teamed asteroids as an engineerable object

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:50 am
by bobdaduck
amgine wrote:Quesion I assume this wouldnt include asteroid spawners right.

I could see a big game flow problem of team asteroid spawners making it nearly impossible to invade a base because you would have to try to clear them while shooting enemy ships seems like it would be nearly impossible.

as for regular asteroids im for this I dont see any harm in it.

Mapmakers can already do this with hostile asteroids, ask yourself why they do not.

[quote="raptor]Please clarify the difference between your 2nd and 3rd options.[/quote] for people who like the idea of teamed asteroids, but specifically do not like the idea of engineering them, or vice versa

Re: Introduce teamed asteroids as an engineerable object

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:16 am
by sky_lark
I'm a fan! Would be fun to fire around team asteroids like testitems or soccerballs, using them against enemies, as well as beefing up security in areas of the map with engineer. I'm curious about santiago's point though, if you engineer an asteroid, does it drop the resource item when it's entirely wiped out or just when it's shot once?

@Amgine I think it includes an option to make asteroid spawns only spawn asteroids for a team. I don't see why this is a bad thing, though. There are many ways to make base access very unpleasant (lots of turrets or laserbeams, for instance) but mapmakers generally avoid that in favor of doling out the feature in moderation.

Re: Introduce teamed asteroids as an engineerable object

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:06 pm
by bobdaduck
sky_lark wrote: if you engineer an asteroid, does it drop the resource item when it's entirely wiped out or just when it's shot once?

I'm envisioning on first shot, because asteroids are fairly fragile (you don't have to concentrate fire on an asteroid or its components nearly as long as you do to take out a turret) and it would give them some additional utility as semi-reusable.

Alternatively, engineering just creates an asteroid of size 1, but I don't see any reason for that to be useful.

Re: Introduce teamed asteroids as an engineerable object

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:35 pm
by amgine
Yeah I agree here it makes no sense for asteroids to not die in 1 hit as normally they would break up.

I actully wanted to ask though would asteroids become fixed to where you placed them or would they preserve momentum allowing you to "throw" them at players

Re: Introduce teamed asteroids as an engineerable object

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:28 pm
by sky_lark
amgine wrote:Yeah I agree here it makes no sense for asteroids to not die in 1 hit as normally they would break up.

Did you mean to say it makes no sense for asteroids to die in 1 hit? That double negative there makes it seem like you're arguing for asteroids to die in 1 hit, which would greatly reduce their impact.

amgine wrote:I actully wanted to ask though would asteroids become fixed to where you placed them or would they preserve momentum allowing you to "throw" them at players

I know you weren't asking me, but personally, I hope they would respond to momentum like any other projectile fired from a ship! That would give players quite a bit more control.

Re: Introduce teamed asteroids as an engineerable object

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:01 pm
by bobdaduck
I pinned a proof of concept to the related discord channel, please evaluate it and see if your feelings about team asteroids change or you get any other thoughts.

Re: Introduce teamed asteroids as an engineerable object

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:36 pm
by bobdaduck
Here's my angle, still:

Asteroids are useless, they only exist for mapmakers to make their levels troll people, their main uses are for 1) making levels less skill based 2) troll killing people halfway through your map and 3) making dungeon hallways with 500000000 of them because you don't know how to make puzzles

The proposed change makes them strategic and friendly, without removing the previous very important functionalities.

I've also been itching for a new strategic item for a while, but suggestions so far haven't seemed interesting or workable. So its kind of a "nothing to lose" situation for me, and I think the change is intuitive enough that it won't actually add much complexity either.

Re: Introduce teamed asteroids as an engineerable object

PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:15 pm
by amgine
I actully had a question obviouslty team mines will damage anyone not on there team but what will the the difference between nuetral and hostile asteroids?

maybe nuetral doesnt break apart or do damage? ( like a test item)
and host will break apart and damage ships?

problem with that is its removes consitacncy in the objects functions and might confuse players.

Re: Introduce teamed asteroids as an engineerable object

PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:11 pm
by bobdaduck
amgine wrote:what will the the difference between nuetral and hostile asteroids?

Nothing

Re: Introduce teamed asteroids as an engineerable object

PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:48 pm
by amgine
I hada though what if neutral asteroids act like test objects and they dont hurt anyone.

hostile on the other hand hurts everyone.

Re: Introduce teamed asteroids as an engineerable object

PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:07 pm
by bobdaduck
amgine wrote:I hada though what if neutral asteroids act like test objects and they dont hurt anyone.

hostile on the other hand hurts everyone.

then use a testitem

Re: Introduce teamed asteroids as an engineerable object

PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:45 am
by sky_lark
I don't know how feasible this would be to code, but maybe neutral asteroids could be "repaired" to convert to that player's team? Although this might not be necessary with engineerable asteroids.

Anyway, I like your proof of concepts on the discord, ducky! Personally I dig the concept with the white mini-icon in the middle -- it contrasts well with the background so darker colored asteroids can be seen easier, and helps quickly identify the asteroids as a threat. I kinda feel like asteroids in general look a bit "innocent" -- they float around as cute shapes, much like testitems and resourceitems -- so the mini-icon helps distinguish the asteroids as something to avoid.

Re: Introduce teamed asteroids as an engineerable object

PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:19 am
by amgine
I dont think being able to heal nuetral aseroids to convert it to your team is the best idea.

I kinda would be bad design to enigerer a asteroid only for it to be yoinked by a enemy ship.