Energy regen

[bobdaduck]

Make loadout zones increase energy recharge rate slightly.

Unknown put it in first, and I've tried it out, and it fits incredibly well with the feel of the game. It would remove the need for energy packs, and would make loadout zones a little more useful.

On another side, what if we made a repairable (engineered item) item that gives energy to its team within a short radius?

I approve of both ideas.

[watusimoto]

I need to think on the second idea, but it is interesting. As for the first, I recall our earlier discussion, and I felt generally good about the idea. Were there any arguments against?

A related question would be whether level designers could control the rate of energy recovery, and if so, how we'd indicate it to the player. If designers can't control the rate of recovery, then that will affect existing levels.

I have no particular problem with either of these concepts -- particularly the latter, which adds a new strategic item, and gives us control over whether we want to use it or not.

[bobdaduck]

We have three ideas so far. It could be a useful feature but we need to be cautious about how we implement it.

1. Energy packs - Move over them, refill energy.
Pros: Simple
Cons: Campable, spamable, immediately will turn the tide of a fight

2. Energy repairable/engineered item - If its repaired to your team, it will refill enough energy within a radius to about double your regen
Pros: Adds another repairable, could be used to make mini-bases important, boosts repairs importance
cons: campable, encourages repair noobs, would require more strategy for level designers to place
Arguments: "a ship may be hard to beat one on one:" Well, they'd have to sit in one spot, while you could zoom around.

3. Loadout zones recharge energy - If you're on a loadout zone it increases your energy regen to about double.
Pros: Simple, Fits well with game,
cons: affects past levels
Arguments: "Current levels will change:" Not too much. I think it would work well enough. If someone's going to recharge energy, they'll suicide. With this, they would just sit on a loadoutzone.

[ZoombeR]

We have three ideas so far. It could be a useful feature but we need to be cautious about how we implement it.

1. Energy packs - Move over them, refill energy.
Pros: Simple
Cons: Campable, spamable, immediately will turn the tide of a fight

2. Energy repairable/engineered item - If its repaired to your team, it will refill enough energy within a radius to about double your regen
Pros: Adds another repairable, could be used to make mini-bases important, boosts repairs importance
cons: campable, encourages repair noobs, would require more strategy for level designers to place
Arguments: "a ship may be hard to beat one on one:" Well, they'd have to sit in one spot, while you could zoom around.

3. Loadout zones recharge energy - If you're on a loadout zone it increases your energy regen to about double.
Pros: Simple, Fits well with game,
cons: affects past levels
Arguments: "Current levels will change:" Not too much. I think it would work well enough. If someone's going to recharge energy, they'll suicide. With this, they would just sit on a loadoutzone.

1. Energy maps seem too make the level too easy. Id put in a max of 1 per level, in the middle, if ABSOLUTELY required

2. eh, i could see both sides to this. although in zap there were already repair noobs.

3. I like this idea, but it should be again, optional, and all older map load-out zones should be defaulted to no energy refilling.

[ZoombeR]

On another side, what if we made a repairable (engineered item) item that gives energy to its team within a short radius?

Doesn't the repair module do that? (yes it is a bit short of a radius though)

the bots from Zap! would all gather together when one had a flag and repair each other as they were in a small radius as well

This is the exact opposite of the repair module.

The repair module, which is mounted on ships, costs energy and gives the ship carrying it, plus other ships and repairables nearby, health.

This repairable item would, when charged up and healthy, give nearby ships energy.

The main problem with a repairable item that provides energy is that as you charge it up, it will give you more energy, with which you can repair it -- thus halving the time it takes for you to repair it, relative to other modules.

Other than that, I prefer it over the other options, although I'm not strictly opposed to loadout zones charging up energy.

1. Seems like it could have some potential value.

2. Might be useful, but I wouldn't want it to take up one of modules. With health it's life or death, but you can usually dodge long enough to get some back, and it's not as important. I guess it could be cool to use in battle, but I think that kinda takes away from the whole "1 on 1" strategic battling.

3. It'd put an emphasis on loadouts, which might be interesting.

Frankly I think it's just another crutch. We already have health packs and repair, are we handicapped enough to need an energy assistant? I like the excitement of running out of energy and trying to dodge long enough to gain it back, and I think that's a useful skill to have.

The problem with any energy-based argument that depends on skill is that the player can suicide, thus giving them nearly-full energy instead of none.

This doesn't help you if you're abroad; it does if you're at home.

Energy repairables could help get rid of that.

[watusimoto]

I personally am rather attached to the idea of using the loadout zones as (potential) recharge zones. You could put one in an enemy base to make it easier on attackers... possibly...

After 013 is out, I'd be willing to try a test release with the code included.

[karamazovapy]

I personally am rather attached to the idea of using the loadout zones as (potential) recharge zones.

As long as nothing you do "breaks" old levels, I really don't care what happens. Giving loadout zones the ability to recharge energy (across the board) could unbalance a game that's already weighted toward defense. If you want to make it an option - whatever.

[ZoombeR]

This is the exact opposite of the repair module.

The repair module, which is mounted on ships, costs energy and gives the ship carrying it, plus other ships and repairables nearby, health.

This repairable item would, when charged up and healthy, give nearby ships energy.

ah i see.
and maybe to do this, a yellow bar that connects from the turret to the ship kind of like the repair module?

in the end i really like it. under turret repair rate you can put energy dispense rate.
also, what if the hostile turrets could drain your health if chosen to?

[bobdaduck]

LoadoutZones: If we made these simply recharge energy, at a flat rate, it would add a new element. I feel that we don't need to overcomplexify this by making level editors choose the regen rate. I say, this idea would work great. If you think _K won't like it, and don't put it in because of that, then its your loss. These do not turn the tide of battle, these let you recharge in-between battles.

[karamazovapy]

LoadoutZones: If we made these simply recharge energy, at a flat rate, it would add a new element. I feel that we don't need to overcomplexify this by making level editors choose the regen rate. I say, this idea would work great. If you think _K won't like it, and don't put it in because of that, then its your loss. These do not turn the tide of battle, these let you recharge in-between battles.

All I said was that I don't want it to break old levels. Most bases have team loadout zones in them. Sitting in the loadout zone shielding would be a pretty effective technique if the zone regenerated your energy. Even if the rate of regeneration was slower than the burn rate for shields, it would extend the defender's ability to shield longer than the attacker's 10 times out of 10.

I'm not saying making loadout zone energy regeneration an attribute is a bad idea. What I'm saying is this:
IF the ability to sustain shields longer than another player offers an advantage and
IF loadout zones extend energy use and
IF most team bases feature loadout zones,
THEN defenders sitting in their bases on loadout zones will have an advantage over attackers, in addition to any advantages they may or may not already have.

[Skybax]

I like numbers two and three.

If number two is implemented can we also have floating turrets??

[bobdaduck]

You haven't played on one of my servers while I have it enabled... You have to sit on the zone to get the regen boost. The person not on the zone can run around you, and if you want the energy regen, then you have to stay put.

[bobdaduck]

Posted this in the wrong thread... Reposting here.
--------------------------
For the sake of needing a name, I will henceforth begin calling the engineered energy regenerator "Regenorators"

For the point of clarification for all, the second item, the "regenorator," Is like a turret or force field. Mounted on a wall, it will restore energy to its current team within a small radius. You can kill them like a turret or projector. You can repair neutral ones, like a turret or projector. Everyone got it by now? Great.

LoadoutZones: If we made these simply recharge energy, at a flat rate, it would add a new element. I feel that we don't need to overcomplexify this by making level editors choose the regen rate. I say, this idea would work great. If you think _K won't like it, and don't put it in because of that, then its your loss. These do not turn the tide of battle, these let you recharge in-between battles.

[karamazovapy]

You haven't played on one of my servers while I have it enabled... You have to sit on the zone to get the regen boost. The person not on the zone can run around you, and if you want the energy regen, then you have to stay put.

I'm not saying it can't work, but you're welcome to tell me where my reasoning is wrong.

threads merged -
both topics were really the same discussion

[watusimoto]

1. IF the ability to sustain shields longer than another player offers an advantage and
IF loadout zones extend energy use and
IF most team bases feature loadout zones,
THEN defenders sitting in their bases on loadout zones will have an advantage over attackers, in addition to any advantages they may or may not already have.

This would almost certainly be an optional attribute of the loadout zone, meaning existing levels would be unaffected. Furthermore, it would almost certainly be implemented in such a way that regen does not occur while using a module, so you can't just sit on the zone and keep your shields up.

If someone wants to put in a bug report for this, we can try it while we're trying some of the soccer fixes for 014.

[karamazovapy]

Loadout Suggestion Implemented!