Highway Stock Map
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:09 pmhighway should be a stock map. the game mode and settings are debatable but the map is good
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Highway Stock Map
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:09 pmRe: Highway Stock Map
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:18 pmLink?
Re: Highway Stock Map
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:26 pmRe: Highway Stock Map
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:50 pmI disagree. While it's fun to play, I believe it's too "messy" to be a stock map.
Re: Highway Stock Map
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:13 amI understand what you're saying, although messy is the wrong word. Highway has a clear and excellent design aesthetic to it. (edit: if you mean gameplay wise, you are correct that it is 'messy' (still a bad word). But it is a pro and not a con)
Highway SHOULD be a stock map because not only is it good, but it shows speedzones off in the best way possible. the job of a stock map is bigger than how it looks.
Highway SHOULD be a stock map because not only is it good, but it shows speedzones off in the best way possible. the job of a stock map is bigger than how it looks.
Re: Highway Stock Map
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:06 amOur approach to "stock" maps has been to choose one simple, clear map for each game type. They are not the best maps out there, in fact they are fairly mediocre. But they are also simple and understandable from a new player's perspective.
That said, if there were a general consensus that we should ship with different stock maps, I'd be open to it.
That said, if there were a general consensus that we should ship with different stock maps, I'd be open to it.
Re: Highway Stock Map
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:52 pmWatusimoto > Highway meets the requirement of being intuitive, and easy to understand to a player. The game is speed.
since you mentioned that as the reason for stock maps, I'll go through them again.
Bitmatch01 introduces health items. and spawn points. and walls. that's it.
Capture01 is huge. What doesn't it try to show? Compare it to Foiled on the merits of being a stock map. Capture is a good map, but I'm mainly showing where the simplicity is not so simple
Hold01 is a lot easier to digest at first compared to Capture. Just get the flags, and you can't get lost. I don't like HTF but this is ok
Nexus01 strikes me as ... weird. this works, the forcefields are different (as all are same team) but easy to understand.
Rabbit01 is kinda bad. Asteroids spawn, and players see a carrot. Ingredients are there and yet I think rabbit's rarity is because this one sucks.
Retrieve01 is simple. Just rush to the flag and bring it to your goals. No time to think about repairing if you even know you can do that. New players will be zapped too easily on this map though
Soccer01 - bots are still broken on soccer, and soccer is a clunky game type at the moment.
MazeRacer is a tech demo. A cool tech demo, but still a tech demo
Serpentine is fine.
Now after this.. do people always learn the basic game? sort of.
gametypes, they should get. But the objects, the fighting, the loadouts, they won't!
A few might not even figure out how to get past force fields. I saw one the other day, shooting at the beam instead of the triangle
a lot of people come online and don't know what loadouts are!
since you mentioned that as the reason for stock maps, I'll go through them again.
Bitmatch01 introduces health items. and spawn points. and walls. that's it.
Capture01 is huge. What doesn't it try to show? Compare it to Foiled on the merits of being a stock map. Capture is a good map, but I'm mainly showing where the simplicity is not so simple
Hold01 is a lot easier to digest at first compared to Capture. Just get the flags, and you can't get lost. I don't like HTF but this is ok
Nexus01 strikes me as ... weird. this works, the forcefields are different (as all are same team) but easy to understand.
Rabbit01 is kinda bad. Asteroids spawn, and players see a carrot. Ingredients are there and yet I think rabbit's rarity is because this one sucks.
Retrieve01 is simple. Just rush to the flag and bring it to your goals. No time to think about repairing if you even know you can do that. New players will be zapped too easily on this map though
Soccer01 - bots are still broken on soccer, and soccer is a clunky game type at the moment.
MazeRacer is a tech demo. A cool tech demo, but still a tech demo
Serpentine is fine.
Now after this.. do people always learn the basic game? sort of.
gametypes, they should get. But the objects, the fighting, the loadouts, they won't!
A few might not even figure out how to get past force fields. I saw one the other day, shooting at the beam instead of the triangle
a lot of people come online and don't know what loadouts are!
Re: Highway Stock Map
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:27 pmI have a tutorial level for the purpose of educating new players. It probably needs to be updated as there have since been new items, but still.
I still stand with Highway being too messy. I agree that's not the perfect word to use for the concept, but it's the only one I can think of at the moment. It's not... I don't know... well-chiseled? It's late, I'm sick, I can't think. Hopefully someone understands this xD
I still stand with Highway being too messy. I agree that's not the perfect word to use for the concept, but it's the only one I can think of at the moment. It's not... I don't know... well-chiseled? It's late, I'm sick, I can't think. Hopefully someone understands this xD
Re: Highway Stock Map
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:40 pmSkybax wrote:I have a tutorial level for the purpose of educating new players. It probably needs to be updated as there have since been new items, but still.
I still stand with Highway being too messy. I agree that's not the perfect word to use for the concept, but it's the only one I can think of at the moment. It's not... I don't know... well-chiseled? It's late, I'm sick, I can't think. Hopefully someone understands this xD
I do and agree :3
Re: Highway Stock Map
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:20 pmtutorial levels aren't usually real levels.. Look, I'm just saying that Highway's cool simple and easy to understand. It's not symmetrical and the shapes aren't 'perfect', but you guys are making a big deal out of that. I find symmetrical/clean maps hard to play, a map like highway feels human. For the people like me, Highway is great. For other people, bring on Geo Wars and airlock. (I finally tried airlock, didn't see what's so special)
Highway fits Fast, fun and frenetic very well because of the speedzones. The stock maps are abstract, but here's a map with character. It's got 'it', for lack of a better word.
Highway fits Fast, fun and frenetic very well because of the speedzones. The stock maps are abstract, but here's a map with character. It's got 'it', for lack of a better word.
Re: Highway Stock Map
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:35 pmWhether the map is good or not is only half of a stock map. The other half is about making something that is conventional and fundamental. It may not have as much flash as some of our other maps, but that's not the point. It's to iron out the simple stuff and give players a chance to work on their basics.
Highway is a fun map, but the primary appeal to the map is to fly around on the speedzones. It overshadows the primary goal of bitmatch - player combat. If players are zipping around on "the highway," then they're not engaging in direct combat.
With that in mind, I do like the idea of an "intermediate" level pack that introduces some of the more advanced concepts while showing off some of the unique aspects of the level editor. If basic stock maps explain the game, then basic intermediate maps hook the players. Get them excited about Bitfighter and get their creative juices flowing for mapmaking.
In that case, Highway would fit in quite nicely. I can also think of Honeycomb Breakout, Bitwise Orrery, Speed Soccer, even Castles.
Highway is a fun map, but the primary appeal to the map is to fly around on the speedzones. It overshadows the primary goal of bitmatch - player combat. If players are zipping around on "the highway," then they're not engaging in direct combat.
With that in mind, I do like the idea of an "intermediate" level pack that introduces some of the more advanced concepts while showing off some of the unique aspects of the level editor. If basic stock maps explain the game, then basic intermediate maps hook the players. Get them excited about Bitfighter and get their creative juices flowing for mapmaking.
In that case, Highway would fit in quite nicely. I can also think of Honeycomb Breakout, Bitwise Orrery, Speed Soccer, even Castles.
Re: Highway Stock Map
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:38 pmtazinator wrote:Bitmatch01 introduces health items. and spawn points. and walls. that's it.
Capture01 is huge. What doesn't it try to show? Compare it to Foiled on the merits of being a stock map. Capture is a good map, but I'm mainly showing where the simplicity is not so simple
Hold01 is a lot easier to digest at first compared to Capture. Just get the flags, and you can't get lost. I don't like HTF but this is ok
Nexus01 strikes me as ... weird. this works, the forcefields are different (as all are same team) but easy to understand.
Rabbit01 is kinda bad. Asteroids spawn, and players see a carrot. Ingredients are there and yet I think rabbit's rarity is because this one sucks.
Retrieve01 is simple. Just rush to the flag and bring it to your goals. No time to think about repairing if you even know you can do that. New players will be zapped too easily on this map though
Soccer01 - bots are still broken on soccer, and soccer is a clunky game type at the moment.
MazeRacer is a tech demo. A cool tech demo, but still a tech demo
Serpentine is fine.
You should make this into a new thread. I think it's worth discussing some of the flaws of the stock maps and offering constructive criticism. Since these are the maps that ship on every machine, they deserve a thorough audit. And, the community and game has changed a bit since they were last made, so it's definitely been long enough.
Re: Highway Stock Map
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:00 pmsky_lark wrote:Whether the map is good or not is only half of a stock map. The other half is about making something that is conventional and fundamental. It may not have as much flash as some of our other maps, but that's not the point. It's to iron out the simple stuff and give players a chance to work on their basics.
Highway is a fun map, but the primary appeal to the map is to fly around on the speedzones. It overshadows the primary goal of bitmatch - player combat. If players are zipping around on "the highway," then they're not engaging in direct combat.
With that in mind, I do like the idea of an "intermediate" level pack that introduces some of the more advanced concepts while showing off some of the unique aspects of the level editor. If basic stock maps explain the game, then basic intermediate maps hook the players. Get them excited about Bitfighter and get their creative juices flowing for mapmaking.
In that case, Highway would fit in quite nicely. I can also think of Honeycomb Breakout, Bitwise Orrery, Speed Soccer, even Castles.
you know, the way Rabbit is played is just that. And it's ok to play a Bitmatch like that - the core of the game, not the rules, are what matter to players. Being forced to fight here and now isn't the core of Bitfighter or even a Bitmatch, it's just a guideline.
(besides, ever try fighting on Highway? Lots of mines
)I like the intermediate map pack idea. Highway explains the value of speedzones like no other map I've seen, but unlike most stock maps has more depth. It'd also take away from the factory feel in the stock maps right now - character sells.
Re: Highway Stock Map
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:05 amtazinator wrote:you know, the way Rabbit is played is just that. And it's ok to play a Bitmatch like that - the core of the game, not the rules, are what matter to players. Being forced to fight here and now isn't the core of Bitfighter or even a Bitmatch, it's just a guideline.
(besides, ever try fighting on Highway? Lots of mines
The emphasis in Bitmatch is player combat. The emphasis in Rabbit is survival, be that player combat or running and hiding. These are design mechanics - while I appreciate there are various ways to play each mode, I think the point of stock maps are to cater to those very fundamental design aspects.
Lol yes though mines on highway are always fun.
Re: Highway Stock Map
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:26 pmsky_lark wrote:In that case, Highway would fit in quite nicely. I can also think of Honeycomb Breakout, Bitwise Orrery, Speed Soccer, even Castles.
Why, oh why. Biggest regret of my life right there.
Re: Highway Stock Map
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:57 amQuartz wrote:Gawd, Castles...sky_lark wrote:In that case, Highway would fit in quite nicely. I can also think of Honeycomb Breakout, Bitwise Orrery, Speed Soccer, even Castles.
Why, oh why. Biggest regret of my life right there.
I loved Castles!! I don't even think my remake of it does the original proper justice!!
Re: Highway Stock Map
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:48 pmCastles was really fun when you could cheat a little with the engineering and place lasers close to walls, crossing over, etc. Back then you had to scramble to place lasers, and try to put them in all the best spots, before the enemies invaded. Now the map is kinda wonky since it's really hard to engineer anything super effective, aside from a crapton of turrets haha
However I included it in the list because it has lots of resource items for engineer, and lots of applicable surfaces to place lasers and turrets.
However I included it in the list because it has lots of resource items for engineer, and lots of applicable surfaces to place lasers and turrets.