Friendly fire

[bobdaduck]

I kill my turrets more often than the enemy team does.

I do damage to my own cores while trying to defend them.

Its relatively easy to troll by destroying all my teams stuff.

I feel like engineered items are pretty much useless because of the ability to kill them, and I'd like this changed.

Discuss.

I kill my turrets more often than the enemy team does.

I do damage to my own cores while trying to defend them.

Its relatively easy to troll by destroying all my teams stuff.

I feel like engineered items are pretty much useless because of the ability to kill them, and I'd like this changed.

Discuss.

Yeah this is a problem in bitfighter, for example I thought I was in the team red, so I shot the blue core, but it was the wrong one (I was actually in team blue), so then I decided just to keep shooting it (I gave up since I majorly screwed up). Force fields seems annoying in maps, so engineer items aren't useless. Also, in the new update, they'll fix friendly fire on cores, but what about friendly fire on turrets and force fields? Also, people scored on their own goals by mistake in soccer, but I don't think that issue can/should be fixed, since it's hard to shoot the ball into goals without obstacles from players (players protecting their goals). However, one game was a team bitmatch and I committed suicide and reduced the points in my team. However, I could just let the enemy kill me...so no point in fixing that. Also, before that, people would committed suicide without hurting their own team's points to have full energy and hp again (commit suicide problem). So there has to be a balance in limiting the ability to hurt one's team. That's why there's admins. I personally think team bitmatch is pointless to try to execute, just do core or ctf. Core pretty much replaced team bitmatch and people don't even play team bitmatch a lot.

Rage quitting and rage afk will always affect game-play, it's hard to enforce not doing it. I see players afk when they given up in BBB/team fights sometimes. It's hard to prevent this because they aren't trolling nor being obvious in hurting their own team. Pretty much it's all just a game to have fun with.

[raptor]

Friendly fire on Cores has been removed for 017

[bobdaduck]

where the knrl do I talk about the problem of players afking?

Okay, friendly fire on cores is fixed. I remain in my original statement that I kill my own turrets more often than the enemy does.

where the knrl do I talk about the problem of players afking?

Okay, friendly fire on cores is fixed. I remain in my original statement that I kill my own turrets more often than the enemy does.

Well the problem of players afking/quiting was just additional information related to players trolling (you talked about trolling; in other words, rage/lazy afking is a type of trolling). You could learn to aim and not hurt your own turrets, but it seems like a smart aleck response. Players should be able to shoot their own turrets to get the resource item (used in creating the turret or force field) and place a different obstacle/item or place the turret in a different location.

So...repair your turrets more if you hit your own turrets more than the enemy's turrets. Turrets aren't really important in bitfighter in my opinion, but trolling is a problem.

Why the knrl you can't aim? Just a joke, you're a good player.
Force fields > Turrets because shield and sprint won't help you at all.

[sam686]

Add this to the list of friendly fire: destroying your team's spybug and your team's mines. How about mines can't blow up unless only the enemy runs over or fire at it? How about spybug can only be destroyed by enemy?

Though, there is one possible problem with not being able to not being able to destroy your team turret or forcefield, it is possible to engineer turrets in a tiny path that blocks your team from getting through, until that turret is destroyed. But, that that can't happen for about half of engineer levels.

[karamazovapy]

I think mines should detonate no matter who runs over them. Spybugs I care less about.

The suicide/team bitmatch issue came up at a previous BBB before suicides counted against your team. If suicides don't count as a negative, players can just run off and kill themselves as soon as they take damage and it pretty much ruins the gametype. I recognize the griefing problem, but I'm not sure which is the lesser evil.

As far as turrets and forcefields are concerned, I see both sides of the argument. It can be annoying to damage your own items, but that can be seen as a risk of using bursts around your own repairables...the cost/benefit of using AOE weapons. There's also the fact that we have regenerating items now, when map makers use them.

In what situation do you usually find yourself taking down your own repairables?

[bobdaduck]

If I have a dogfight near my turret, I kill the enemy and my turret goes down too. The enemy doesn't even need to fire at it; my stray bullets kill the turret completely every time.

I think players should not be able to shoot their own defenses unless there is a plus side to it -- destroying engineered objects. Thus,

Turrets/laserbeams placed by the mapmaker -- only take damage from enemy.
Turrets/laserbeams placed by teammate engineer -- take damage from all.

There really isn't much value in destroying your own spybugs, so for that reason I think they should only be destroyable by enemies.

Not sure how I feel about mines, it's an interesting issue.

[Skybax]

There really isn't much value in destroying your own spybugs, so for that reason I think they should only be destroyable by enemies.

You can use spybugs to act like a mine boost without needing to use shield. Although I don't know if the energy usage would be worth the effort.

There really isn't much value in destroying your own spybugs, so for that reason I think they should only be destroyable by enemies.

You can use spybugs to act like a mine boost without needing to use shield. Although I don't know if the energy usage would be worth the effort.

The energy wouldn't be worth it. Using two bursts, with shield module, like I do is a lot better.

[ZoombeR]

Okay, friendly fire on cores is fixed. I remain in my original statement that I kill my own turrets more often than the enemy does.

Do unto others as others do unto you. They have their own shootable turret.

Remember though, though you may not endeavor in this tactic, sometimes shooting down forcefields and turrets can be helpful to your side, depending on what's going on, most of the time in soccer for turrets, maybe extending turret range by killing a forcefield

Its so dang simple, it almost frustrates me to say it when this kind of topic is brought up. If someone's trolling you and your server and players,

Pick a different server
Pick a server with an admin on to kick/ban him
Host your own server

Problem solved.

[watusimoto]

Just to throw a different opinion out there, I think friendly fire should injure everyone, everywhere, all the time. I do realize I am in the minority on this point.

As raptor noted, we've taken ff out of the equation for cores (against my personal wishes, but I chose not to argue against the decision). I could see an argument for removing ff for turrets and forcefields, and possibly spy bugs.

But I am pretty adamantly opposed to making mines not affect teammates.

Just to throw a different opinion out there, I think friendly fire should injure everyone, everywhere, all the time. I do realize I am in the minority on this point.

As raptor noted, we've taken if out of the equation for cores (against my personal wishes, but I chose not to argue against the decision). I could see an argument for removing if for turrets and forcefields, and possibly spy bugs.

But I am pretty adamantly opposed to making mines not affect teammates.

I think only non-engineered turrets and force fields shouldn't be able to be destroyed by allied players. Mines and burst are suppose to hurt yourself if you aren't careful. That's why players don't just spam the burst weapon a bunch 24/7 or else it'll be OP. It is annoying when a team mate destroys an allied spy bug, but having global/entire map vision isn't very important in the game bitfighter, in my opinion.

I think that cores shouldn't be able to take damage from allied forces because it's a very important base-like-building.

P.S. If you mad at me for team-killing yall with mines...well sorry and mines require 3/4 of your energy.

[sam686]

I will say over 90% of all levels are a bad thing to kill any of your team's turrets or force field projectors that wasn't engineered.

Looks like most people want friendly fire off for turret, force field projector, spy bugs, and Core, so far.

Looks like most people want friendly fire off for turret, force field projector, spy bugs, and Core, so far.

ok, but keep friendly fire on for engineered turrets/laserbeams. There would be a new level of griefing if a teammate engineered a turret in a bottlenecked area deep inside your base, and only an enemy could destroy it (why would they want to help you?).

[karamazovapy]

I kind of like friendly fire, although it makes defending Cores more difficult.

[Little_Apple]

To me it seems to me that friendly fire is just another way for trolls to sabotage their own team.

when i hear "friendly fire", the first thing that comes to mind is being able to shoot your teammates.

Why shouldn't we be able to shoot our own spy bugs? If we can't hurt our own spy bugs, then we should shoot through them. Or else the enemies will be able to use their enemy's spy bugs as obstacles/tiny shield to protect them from a few shots. I don't want my enemies using my own tool against me, only mines should be like that.

[sam686]

Why shouldn't we be able to shoot our own spy bugs?

It takes a lot of energy to place spy bugs. Spy bugs by itself don't do any damage to ship's health when it blows up. Can have it so you can destroy your own spy bugs, but not your team's spy bugs.

Or else the enemies will be able to use their enemy's spy bugs as obstacles/tiny shield to protect them from a few shots. I don't want my enemies using my own tool against me

The enemy isn't using your spy bugs, right? If spy bugs get in the way from enemy fire (except its own), it will blow up and prevent a few enemy bullets from getting to you.

[bobdaduck]

I say that spybugs and non-engineered turrets and forcefields shouldn't be able to be shot by your own team, but if we're not going to do that I'd actually side with watusimoto. All or nothing.

[watusimoto]

To me it seems to me that friendly fire is just another way for trolls to sabotage their own team.

This is one of the main arguments against it, but has anyone ever actually seen this happen? Given that teams are different each game, there doesn't seem much incentive to sabotage your (current, arbitrarily assigned) team.

[Little_Apple]

I do it. c:

To me it seems to me that friendly fire is just another way for trolls to sabotage their own team.

This is one of the main arguments against it, but has anyone ever actually seen this happen? Given that teams are different each game, there doesn't seem much incentive to sabotage your (current, arbitrarily assigned) team.

Play with me and you see what La means. It's a game is it not? Trolling seems more fun than trying to win for most players.

[ZoombeR]

To me it seems to me that friendly fire is just another way for trolls to sabotage their own team.

This is one of the main arguments against it, but has anyone ever actually seen this happen? Given that teams are different each game, there doesn't seem much incentive to sabotage your (current, arbitrarily assigned) team.

Is there a way we can detect troll-ism?

Constant on-basis attacks only to your team, or a ratio of mostly to your team, demonstrating you have clearly done more to your team?

To me it seems to me that friendly fire is just another way for trolls to sabotage their own team.

This is one of the main arguments against it, but has anyone ever actually seen this happen? Given that teams are different each game, there doesn't seem much incentive to sabotage your (current, arbitrarily assigned) team.

Is there a way we can detect troll-ism?

Constant on-basis attacks only to your team, or a ratio of mostly to your team, demonstrating you have clearly done more to your team?

Doesn't seem possible with the current kill/death ratio.

This is one of the main arguments against it, but has anyone ever actually seen this happen? Given that teams are different each game, there doesn't seem much incentive to sabotage your (current, arbitrarily assigned) team.

There isn't any incentive that I can think of, but some people are jerks! And if we leave the gate open now it's inevitable to happen.

[bobdaduck]

Nah, if you have it set up for easy trolling I think you deserve to be trolled. I don't think they should be punished at all.

Nah, if you have it set up for easy trolling I think you deserve to be trolled. I don't think they should be punished at all.

The admins will kick/ban players that troll or are extremely disrespectful. Might as well have it to where trolling is harder to accomplish.

[ZoombeR]

Nah, if you have it set up for easy trolling I think you deserve to be trolled. I don't think they should be punished at all.

So honest wanting to play players who try their best and hardest deserve to be trolled?

[karamazovapy]

I would like to call for a cessation of use of all forms of the word "trolling".

I believe we should revert to the pre-2000 nomenclature of "pulling lame pranks". Of course, this means replacing the word "trolled" with "having lame pranks pulled on you/him/her/them", but I believe it is entirely worth the cost.

Join me in my quest to stamp out silly nonsense words and recognize the actions for the silly nonsense they are.

I would like to call for a cessation of use of all forms of the word "trolling".

I believe we should revert to the pre-2000 nomenclature of "pulling lame pranks". Of course, this means replacing the word "trolled" with "having lame pranks pulled on you/him/her/them", but I believe it is entirely worth the cost.

Join me in my quest to stamp out silly nonsense words and recognize the actions for the silly nonsense they are.

I don't understand this post or is it a trollz?
Edit: it's a trollz
We should just avoid the possibilities of sabotages like sky_lark said.

[bobdaduck]

I believe that the best players who try their best and hardest understand why friendly fire sucks, so if they're apathetic instead then they deserve to be trolled. And have lame pranks pulled on them.

On one game of star wars fps, it had an option of the servers to have friendly fire on/off. I like it off, but sometimes I want to go to a server with it "on" if there were a lot of trollerz with admins afking. So should it be an option for the server host, since we don't all agree?

WINvsWIN deal

[Little_Apple]

i think friendly fire is a horrible idea.

On one game of star wars fps, it had an option of the servers to have friendly fire on/off. I like it off, but sometimes I want to go to a server with it "on" if there were a lot of trollerz with admins afking. So should it be an option for the server host, since we don't all agree?

WINvsWIN deal

In theory that seems okay, but I think ultimately it'd just get too confusing if such an integral part of the game is different every time you play.

On one game of star wars fps, it had an option of the servers to have friendly fire on/off. I like it off, but sometimes I want to go to a server with it "on" if there were a lot of trollerz with admins afking. So should it be an option for the server host, since we don't all agree?

WINvsWIN deal

In theory that seems okay, but I think ultimately it'd just get too confusing if such an integral part of the game is different every time you play.

It's the server that's responsible for it. Some servers already have mods, too. The server host picks if friendly fire is on/off. One reason why I suggested this is to kinda "test" no friendly fire. There aren't many servers, too, so most servers would probably popularize on either friendly fire on/off. However, I see how it can be confusing. I think it's worth it, if we have the instruction page tell us how to read information from a server to know if it has friendly fire on/off and other stuff.

[ZoombeR]

Im really confused at what happened in these posts...

I'm opposed to removing friendly fire from Turrets, Force Fields, and Mines. Spybugs make sense, they could "have a small device built-in that tells it when you're shooting and causes it to veer out of the way". Then you could still kill off a spybug (say for a dungeon puzzle) with a burst. But if you don't have to destroy the Spybug for a puzzle, why would you, they see enemies on the C-Map. Even if you don't use it, who knows, others might.

Turrets and FFs? I can see tactical reasons to destroy your own turrets (think TestItems) and force fields (remember Turretious spawn rooms?). Friendly fire on mines is a given, and the only way to kill a troll on your team that has the flag (some players, who shall remain nameless, have done this before).

I kill my turrents more often than the enemy team does.

I do damage to my own cores while trying to defend them.

Its relatively easy to Lame Prankster by destroying all my teams stuff.

I feel like engineered items are pretty much useless because of the ability to kill them, and I'd like this changed.

Discuss.

In version 0.17, players cannot hurt their own cores. If you t[r]oll or rage, the admin can ban you. Engineered items should be movable. Your first statement is your own problem.

[bobdaduck]

No, like, I'm not even trolling. If there is a dogfight in front of one of my turrets, I will end up disabling my own turret with my own bullets.

Every time.

Hmm. So, pros and cons:

Enable Friendly Fire on Turrets & Laserbeams

PROS:
[*] Temporarily sabotage friendly turrets/laserbeams to remove TestItems/ResourceItems that are distracting the turrets/laserbeams
[*] Destroy forcefields to allow turret fire to pass through and kill enemies
[*] Destroy turrets that were poorly placed by level editor and now do more harm than good

CONS:
[*] Accidental collateral damage can damage good turrets/laserbeams
[*] Trolls can have a field day, and there might not always be a mod present

Disable Friendly Fire on Turrets & Laserbeams

PROS:
[*] Prevent accidental collateral damage to good turrets/laserbeams
[*] Stop trolls from being trolls (although, "where there's a will there's a way" applies here)

CONS:
[*] Cannot easily remove TestItems/ResourceItems that are distracting the turrets/laserbeams
[*] Cannot destroy forcefields to allow turret fire to pass through and kill enemies (but can hold down forcefield, although that'd put you in the line of sight of the turrets)
[*] Cannot destroy turrets that were poorly placed by level editor and now do more harm than good

Anything else?

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On a slightly related note, can friendly turrets still kill you or has this been modified in 017?