Android/iPhone/Windows BitFighter app (mostly android)

So I just got a new phone this week and took to it like a bum takes to booze. Downloaded a few awesome emulators and the controls are easy.

Here's my idea, you stick on a directional pad for the touch screens and three buttons for fire/option one/option two. Obviously you couldn't get all the features as the full game, but you'd get enough to get by. You could even run a server on it and load bots or host a wifi server with other phones. Furthermore the phone servers could limit options of people joining who have the full version so as not to give them an unfair advantage.

It's just a thought but I figured it might help get more people interested in the game.

[Little_Apple]

I've had this idea for so long. I've even tried begging Sam686 to consider making it! But the main reason he can't do it is he has no iPhone or stuff like that. I would love it! But it's just... That.

This has been a long discussed issue/idea/proposition/etc. for the time being BitFighter is still a very Indie game and as such is not widely compatible across several platforms. At the moment the game has about 5 developers who take care of coding and other points of management which they do free of charge in their spare time which we are all very grateful for. Thus we do not have the number of developers needed to invest time in putting forth versions or editions of BitFighter compatible with other devices. For the time being we will have to make do with spreading the game via word of mouth until we've attracted more developers to help with the game.

It's definitely something to think about, but I think there just might be too many controls. When I play Bitfighter, I'm constantly flying around, changing weapons and modules, checking my commander's map, communicating with my teammates etc. I'm sure it's possible but I don't know how playable it would be.

ZoombeR rendered my comment unneeded.

[ZoombeR]

I've had this idea for so long. I've even tried begging Sam686 to consider making it! But the main reason he can't do it is he has no iPhone or stuff like that. I would love it! But it's just... That.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it's not the materials we don't have or the software to build it on;

Watusimoto and I have discussed this on several occasions in the past.

before I even go into the big issues, we have to be clear on one thing. Bitfighter is built on the torque network library (TNL), created by mark frohnmayer, the same person who also designed zap, which later became re-modled and named, bitfighter, thanks to watusimoto. TNL is framework /building software used by GarageGames (torque powered games), whom also hosted and still hosts zap when it was around. This framework is one of the most essential frameworks to the project; Zap was built around this framework. However, TNL is in no way shape or form, supported by the ipod at all, period.

Now setting that all aside, three are a few problems building bitfighter on the uPod:

One problem is that the frameworks (a library for the game code) are not all supported on the ipod touch. This would immediately require a lot of work porting completely new frameworks designed for the ipod touch, iphone, and ipad.

Second of all, we have to create a whole new Xcode project (what bitfighter for mac is built on) that is ported just for the iphone. Everything is slightly different, and we would have to put this project all together again.

Third of all, we would have to redesign all the UI code to work with the ipod and create a new input made specifically for the ipod.

Fourth of all, bitfighter uses about 20 MB of memory. For some ipods, that is ALOT. We would have to be careful there

Lastly, how are you going to fit all the controls on the ipod? Do you really want to tilt your device to move? Control will be very difficult, and on top of that, you must not only aim, but also shoot, and hopefully shield and turbo, if those are your two modules. Those are the four base, most used, controls in bitfighter. Most players you come across, know how to use all four at the same time. Can you really tap 3 spots on the ipod at once, while still tilting your device? Probably not. Its not just a small disadvantage, you will be struggling. Thats no fun. And dont forget load-outs, chat, and all that other stuff.

I know it would be awesome to have bitfighter on the iphone. Our developers, especially sam, certainly have the ability and mind to be able to port a game like bitfighter to the iphone. However, the way bitfighter is built and played might just make it too hard for what its worth

Suppose you made a simplified virson of bit fighter just for bitfighter mobile? Meaning simplified controls, or fewer controls, and maybe even voice chat instead of text? What if you had a whole server just for mobile devices? What if you were to have the bitfighter mobile on iOS, android, windows mobile, etc, all on the same server?

I don't know if any of these questions have already been answered or not, but I think I definitely can be done! I mean, look at gameloft! Don't they have some of the same apps for iOS and android? Don't they play on the same server? Well, sorry to be the optimist here, but I do think I can be done!

P.S. I'm doing all this on my iPod! I do my iPod ALOT more than a desktop.

[karamazovapy]

Could it be done? Yes.
Is anyone here capable of doing it? Maybe. Maybe at best.
Will anyone here do it? No.

As far as I'm aware, we have no mobile developers, and the current software relies on frameworks that do not function on mobile devices.

Frankly, it'd probably be more worthwhile to re-code a stripped down flash-based client.

[ZoombeR]

if bitfighter could be made to flash, technically, you play it on your android (supports flash now?) phone, however you would be loading it without a clue of what bugs could happpen.

http://vimeo.com/12752382

Something to think about.

I found it at http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/i4d5y/whatever_happened_to_androideroids_etc/

Also everyone keeps talking about iPhone. I don't care about iPhone and Android basically runs Linux. I just got an Atrix and it has a dual core tegra 2 processor (nvidia tech) and it's pretty powerful, certainly powerful enough to run the game.

I've even downloaded a few emulators (atari, nes, snes, gbc, gba, genisis and n64 (although I have no roms to test the last one with)) and they have options to reprogram two of the hardware buttons.

[ZoombeR]

Also everyone keeps talking about iPhone. I don't care about iPhone and Android basically runs Linux. I just got an Atrix and it has a dual core tegra 2 processor (nvidia tech) and it's pretty powerful, certainly powerful enough to run the game.

Ok thats just the problem. I like hearing the linux part though, but it can't be basically, it has to meet one of these three requirements.

  Code:

#elif defined(linux)
#  define TNL_OS_STRING "Linux"
#  define TNL_OS_LINUX
#  define FN_CDECL

#elif defined(__OpenBSD__)
#  define TNL_OS_STRING "OpenBSD"
#  define TNL_OS_OPENBSD
#  define FN_CDECL

#elif defined(__FreeBSD__)
#  define TNL_OS_STRING "FreeBSD"
#  define TNL_OS_FREEBSD
#  define FN_CDECL

#elif defined(__APPLE__)
#  define TNL_OS_STRING "MacOSX"
#  define TNL_OS_MAC_OSX
#  define FN_CDECL

#else
#  error "TNL: Unsupported Operating System"
#endif
 

Which could, be the case. However, here is why the iphone doesn't work. It uses a special processor, different form those of macs or supported below. I don't know about android phones:

  Code:

// defined(_M_AMD64)|| defined(__amd64__) || defined(_M_IA64) || defined(__amd64) || defined(__ia64__) || defined(_IA64) || defined(__IA64__) || defined(__i686__)
#if defined(_M_IX86) || defined(i386) || defined(__x86_64__) || defined(__x86_64__) || defined(__x86_64)
#  define TNL_CPU_STRING "Intel x86"
#  define TNL_CPU_X86
#  define TNL_LITTLE_ENDIAN
#  define TNL_SUPPORTS_NASM

#  if defined (__GNUC__)
#    if __GNUC__ == 2
#      define TNL_GCC_2
#    elif __GNUC__ == 3
#      define TNL_GCC_3
#    elif __GNUC__ == 4
#      define TNL_GCC_4
#    else
#      error "TNL: Unsupported version of GCC (see tnlMethodDispatch.cpp)"
#    endif
#    define TNL_SUPPORTS_GCC_INLINE_X86_ASM
#  elif defined (__MWERKS__)
#    define TNL_SUPPORTS_MWERKS_INLINE_X86_ASM
#  else
#    define TNL_SUPPORTS_VC_INLINE_X86_ASM
#  endif

#elif defined(__ppc__)
#  define TNL_CPU_STRING "PowerPC"
#  define TNL_CPU_PPC
#  define TNL_BIG_ENDIAN
#  ifdef __GNUC__
#    define TNL_SUPPORTS_GCC_INLINE_PPC_ASM
#  endif
#else
#  error "TNL: Unsupported Target CPU"
#endif
 

[raptor]

Just to pipe in here -

From a development standpoint, I believe almost anything is possible; we just have to overcome the hurdles.

With that said, there are pretty big hurdles to overcome right now, and I believe the biggest one is how to intelligently handle the dual-axis controls and other buttons on a touch-screen mobile device.

However, we are currently in the midst of a LOT of big changes in the code that will keep us busy for a quite a while before we can even consider going mobile.

Well when the time does come there are a bunch of "fun" APIs you can get from https://developer.android.com/reference/packages.html

Not to mention the wealth of information at https://www.xda-developers.com/ and their forums.

I'm with _K on this. We simply do not have the resources at the time to be thinking this far ahead of ourselves. To even be able to handle the time and effort to make these developments we'll need more developers to join with our current staff. To cause that we need more people to play. This is and has been our largest and most difficult hurdle to date and until we overcome it we cannot be considering these possibilities for future development. We simply do not have the player base required to be taking this step.

[Santiago ZAP]

_k is Right,
but, what will BF in iPhone (or other type) do?

Will it help the BF team? --- No, unless it costs or gets loads of ads
Would it cost? --- if its gotta help the BF team, it would
Do we have the nessesary recourses? --- as _k said, No

I dont think anyone here's gotta make BF for another game console.

[Lone Wolf]

im just spitballing an idea here, but if BF DOES for some reason go mobile, you can just copy your .level files becuase the level editor would be irratating to use on a touchscreen, espacially considering the fact that most people cant use touchscreens well unless you have a stylus to pinpoint EXACTLY where you want something. it would just be easier to transfer you own .levels off the computer.

[karamazovapy]

Somebody's already picked out what color he wants the flames on his jetpack to be...

[bobdaduck]

That made absolutely no sense. And the sense that it did make would not buy you any candy at the gas station.

Just... No bitfighter mobile, kay? Not for years.

[Skybax]

I understood it…
I even understood what you said!
Ha.

Have you guys played this kinda lame game called "doodle army 2"? It's a dual stick platformer multiplayer shooter game. I think the controls might solve the dual stick problem too.

[raptor]

Wow blackbird, that is actually a good idea...

[ZoombeR]

ok, want to play bitfighter on your ipod? you CAN,
download realVNC or some other vnc app on your ipod,
Find your computer's ip adress, and password.
Type it in, and hit connect
then launch bitfighter on your computer.
there you go, your up and playing.

[sam686]

download realVNC or some other vnc app on your ipod

VNC can add lots of lag, maybe too much lag that can make it unplayable. Requirements to have the computer in that case may hurt farther. Better to run the software directly into the device and not use VNC.

[karamazovapy]

"doodle army 2"? It's a dual stick platformer multiplayer shooter game. I think the controls might solve the dual stick problem too.

I played a FPS on my droid that used virtual sticks, and it drove me up the wall. Maybe they work better for other people?

[ZoombeR]

download realVNC or some other vnc app on your ipod

VNC can add lots of lag, maybe too much lag that can make it unplayable. Requirements to have the computer in that case may hurt farther. Better to run the software directly into the device and not use VNC.

i know, i was joking there..

Making bitfighter for any platform other than Pc could definitely improve publicity. XBOX360 PS3 iOS aneroid kindle ( but not ps3) :p

Xbox and PS3 would cost a fortune, we would need to get a development kit for each, and then publish the game, then handle copyrights. Android and iPhone is going to be veeeeeerry easier

[kaen]

Let's ignore the purely technical hurdles for a second. Imagine actually playing bitfighter on a touch screen phone. If you use v-sticks for movement and aiming, that means you get to chose two of the four essential actions at any given time. Not only that, but these devices don't have a lot of screen space. Even after adjusting the UI, you still have two thumbs in front of your screen. If you use the accelerometer for control, then you get the lag and imprecision it entails. An iPhone 5 has a 4 inch (diagonal) screen. If you keep the same visible game area you have on PCs, your ship will be smaller than a quarter inch across. Projectiles would be about a sixteenth of an inch. Cell phone data networks have good throughput but bad latency, and are subject to all sorts of interference.

After the physical limitations of the platform, then you have the technical problems of getting all of the dependencies to compile (there are sixteen and counting) as well as bitfighter itself. Even after you make them compile you have to make it run smoothly. Bitfighter uses raw GL calls, which have considerable overhead compared to the texture blitting used by most mobile games. Furthermore, mobile GPUs are not optimized for rendering in this manner (unlike PC GPUs). And then we'd still have to port to a different version of SDL. After that you have to write an entirely new UI system just for phones, and then perform the same maintenance on that system as we do on the PC version (we have enough trouble with our one UI system as it is). Then there's the mobile-specific bugs which are sure to come up, and the fact that iOS and Android have two completely separate build processes (so you get to do all of this twice, then maintain it).

I could go on but I'm getting bored.

We've even had outside help from someone who does this stuff regularly. The result was a broken, unplayable version that no one else could get to build.

The bottom line is that nobody on the team has both the desire and the ability to make this happen, and, even if that weren't the case, this person would probably not want to do all of this work just to have proof that mobile bitfighter would suck.

I'm locking this thread. If things change, we'll let you all know.