Team Rabbit Scoring

[karamazovapy]

In team rabbit games (as rare as those are), suicides count against team score. Suicides do not count against the team score in team bitmatch games, or any other team gametype. This seems anachronistic.

[raptor]

For 016, sam686 already made it so suicides in team bitmatch count against score.

[karamazovapy]

It seems like a weird negative scoring event for rabbit, though. I mean, that a teammate who doesn't even have the flag can lose everyone five points by sitting in front of an enemy turret or getting hit by an asteroid...

[ZoombeR]

should be changed so negative points only count twoards players who are holding the carrot

[karamazovapy]

The penalty for the rabbit dying is that your team is no longer holding the flag. And if the other team kills him/her, they get points for doing it.

[bobdaduck]

Negative points make it unnecessarily complicated. I vote no penalty for dying period.

Suicides are a very strategic move and even enforcing a negative penalty will not deter me from using it.

[ZoombeR]

Suicides are a very strategic move and even enforcing a negative penalty will not deter me from using it.

I believe thats how this issue got brought up. I was going to write a 50 line tactical reason behind suiciding, but i think id rather save the effort and say, don't penalize for it, its a trade-off, at the basic level. Period, that's fact. The only reason I offered to make it so only the rabbit could get negative points, was just a way of compromising between both sides, but I too would rather have no negative score for suicide.

for sam686 if he reads it: gibbed used to have a /suicide command built into it, still possible to add one right now?

[karamazovapy]

Well suicide to cheat the opposing team out of points in team bitmatch doesn't seem like a fair, valid strategy.

[bobdaduck]

I've got an idea.

Make it so that bursts only do .4 damage to yourself, rather then the .5 they do to everyone else.

That way it will take three bursts to suicide instead of two, so it takes longer.

[ZoombeR]

i like it.

[karamazovapy]

I don't think making suicide take an extra second addresses the problem in team bitmatch games.

[bobdaduck]

I think that its not nearly as much a problem as you're making it out to be.

[karamazovapy]

I'm not saying it ruins the gametype, but it's usually the difference between winning and losing.

Besides, .4 or .5 doesn't make as much difference if you're at less than 100% health.

[bobdaduck]

the difference between winning and losing? I think not.

Not if the enemy team can point a phaser at you before you kill yourself.

[karamazovapy]

Here's a team bitmatch video where suicide was the difference between winning and losing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlTQtCENp9I

If a good player can edge out the competition on equal footing and then reset the 1v1 to equality through suicide, the other player can't score an equalizer, even if they did substantial damage the first time around. If you have less than half your life left, it only takes one burst to suicide. Bursts explode instantly if you fire them point blank at a wall.

[sam686]

This is how it goes in 015. Only the players holding the rabbit flag can score 5 points by destroying ships. Non-rabbit players score 5 points by killing rabbit. Players who do not have flag cannot score 5 points by destroying non-rabbit ships. Does not matter if your team is holding the flag, you can not score 5 points destroying non-rabbit enemies without flag. Suicide is always -5 points without flag.

Version 014 and older does not allow team rabbit levels, and had problems with more then one rabbit flags.

Due to some bugs in 015 and 015a, killing any rabbit ships, including killing your team using mines adds +5 score, and killing any ship including killing your team while holding rabbit flag add +5 points. This should soon be fix for 016.

As for suicide in team rabbit, make it less penalty, -1 maybe?

For suicide, negative points only while holding flag can create problem where you drop flag then suicide to avoid negative score. If close to your team, your team can pick up flag the second after you drop flag.

One other problem is pressing a drop flag button just before letting enemy kill you to avoid enemy scoring 5 points.

Levels with too little spawn points make it too easy to just suicide at spawn area holding flag, and either grab the flag immediately after spawning, or give flag to your team.

one solution is to make it so the only way to score is to hold the flag and score 20 points per minute or other numbers set by individual level, without kill score or suicide score.

[karamazovapy]

Currently, deaths from asteroids and turrets count as -5 toward the team, too.

[bobdaduck]

So we want a communist game, where suicides don't make the good get gooder and the bad get badder.

Knrl you all.

Negative points make it unnecessarily complicated. I vote no penalty for dying period.

Suicides are a very strategic move and even enforcing a negative penalty will not deter me from using it.

This made me laugh...lol

KNRL YOU!!!
Took a few months but I got the freaking knrl on you, you knrl...

5 points is equal to like 5 seconds in carrot...so could it really make a significant difference in winning and losing
It is possible, but that's some lucky BallZ stuff with perfect timing man.

[ZoombeR]

[quote="BotFighter"]
5 points is equal to like 5 seconds in carrot... a/quote]

nope.

5 points is equal to like 5 seconds in carrot... a/quote]

nope.

Don't you get like a point each second, if you have the flag?
I meant rabbit when I said carrot...lol

[karamazovapy]

The "earn rate" is set by the level designer. It's totally variable.

Eh...well it's usually 1 second when I playz. Then this could be an issue.
Could not play certain levels if it's an issue...idk
It seems like a coding problem to me.
Because it could be fixed by programming to only take points off of yourself instead of the whole team. Only problems are, is it an issue (yes it kinda is) and can we fix it? Rabbit isn't a very popular game type, but it's more popular than soccer... (my opinion)

[sam686]

Because it could be fix by programming to only take points off of yourself instead of the whole team.

That isn't possible to take away just your point in a Team game unless you are talking about the player rating. Either it take away point from your team score, or it might not.

[Lone Wolf]

I'm 50-50 here. I agree to use penalty for the guys who do it on purpose, but i do it too. ONLY TO CHANGE MY LOADOUT IF THE MAP DOESNT HAVE ONE. That is the ONLY time i suicide, and i do not want to lose points changing my loadout.

I'm 50-50 here. I agree to use penalty for the guys who do it on purpose, but i do it too. ONLY TO CHANGE MY LOADOUT IF THE MAP DOESNT HAVE ONE. That is the ONLY time i suicide, and i do not want to lose points changing my loadout.

I think this statement is insightful. I do too commit suicide to change my modules. The change module feature with load out zone seems annoying sometimes. Especially if the map is small and the game-time is very small.

[karamazovapy]

Team rabbit scoring has been fixed in 016. If you'd like to address another issue, please start a separate topic.