Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
| 00:04:00 | | Helmic has left |
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| 00:12:00 | raptor | by helmic |
| 00:12:00 | raptor | bye |
| 00:16:00 | | watusimoto has joined |
| 00:18:00 | raptor | good evening |
| 00:38:00 | raptor | would someone be able to test sound on windows for me? |
| 00:39:00 | sam686 | i can |
| 00:39:00 | raptor | i built the ALURE library for windows and i want to make sure it is integrated well.. |
| 00:39:00 | sam686 | what do i need to test? |
| 00:40:00 | raptor | just to make sure sound is still working in the build - it's almost ready |
| 00:43:00 | raptor | ok, the debug build is larger than I thought |
| 00:43:00 | raptor | sam, can your upload server handle 10MB? |
| 00:44:00 | sam686 | i have my php upload limit set to upload_max_filesize = 32M |
| 00:45:00 | raptor | ok, it's actually 2.3 MB |
| 00:45:00 | raptor | http://96.2.123.136/upload/bitfigter-alure.zip |
| 00:45:00 | raptor | bah spelled it wrong.. |
| 00:47:00 | sam686 | i start up that EXE, and error, The application fail to initalize properly (0x80000003) |
| 00:47:00 | raptor | argh |
| 00:47:00 | raptor | rats |
| 00:49:00 | raptor | did you do the building of that openal32.dll and .lib that is in the lib/ folder now? |
| 00:50:00 | sam686 | no |
| 00:50:00 | sam686 | that .dll was already there. |
| 01:11:00 | sam686 | i changed my upload_max_filesize = 256M (probably will take very long time to upload that big) |
| 01:14:00 | sam686 | I may be going to bed, I am not sure if you can test it yourself without horribly crashing virtual machine... |
| 01:15:00 | raptor | yeah, i can't |
| 01:15:00 | raptor | i am going to try recompiling the library with mingw |
| 01:15:00 | raptor | good night |
| 01:15:00 | sam686 | bye.. |
| 01:26:00 | raptor | watusimoto or sam686 do either of you know how to build in vc++ without linking against those blasted vc runtime libraries? |
| 01:27:00 | watusimoto | I do not -- why? |
| 01:27:00 | watusimoto | I'd think you could link against them in mingw as well |
| 01:27:00 | raptor | because that is what is making the new sound library fail - it is compiled against them |
| 01:27:00 | raptor | i don't want to link against them |
| 01:38:00 | raptor | found it: use /MT instead of /MD |
| 01:38:00 | raptor | for compiler flags |
| 01:43:00 | raptor | watusimoto: can you test a bitfighter buidl for me? |
| 01:45:00 | raptor | please? |
| 01:45:00 | raptor | it's here --> http://96.2.123.136/upload/bitfighter-alure.7z |
| 01:45:00 | raptor | i just need you to test that it can start up, and that sound works |
| 01:46:00 | raptor | brb |
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| 01:49:00 | watusimoto | doesn't run |
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| 01:53:00 | raptor | rats |
| 01:55:00 | raptor | so windows xp boots in 15 seconds in my VM, but when i reboot the laptop into it - it takes 2 minutes |
| 02:03:00 | watusimoto | wow |
| 02:03:00 | watusimoto | so, did you see my msg? doesn't start. |
| 02:03:00 | raptor | yeah, i saw it |
| 02:04:00 | raptor | i don't think I like working with windows libraries |
| 02:06:00 | watusimoto | do we have an alternative? |
| 02:06:00 | raptor | haha, nope |
| 02:07:00 | watusimoto | well then... |
| 02:07:00 | watusimoto | but seriously, aside from the pain of acquisition, what's the problem? |
| 02:13:00 | raptor | ? |
| 02:14:00 | raptor | problem? |
| 02:14:00 | raptor | you mean my dislike of windows library handling in general? or my specific library problem i'm having now? |
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| 02:45:00 | raptor | side by side assemblies |
| 02:46:00 | watusimoto | I was asking why you disliked the windows libs so much |
| 02:46:00 | raptor | i think #1: the default dynamic linking against visual c runtimes |
| 02:47:00 | raptor | #2, the weird side-by-side assemblies implementation to handle multiple versions of the same library |
| 03:01:00 | raptor | but yeah - it's probably mostly just learning curve for me |
| 03:03:00 | raptor | oh hey, we left in poly2tri |
| 03:09:00 | raptor | this is goofy - the windows exe now links against openal32, but when examining the calls in bitfighter.exe, glut functions are said to be under openal32 |
| 03:14:00 | raptor | every run into something like that? |
| 03:15:00 | watusimoto | oh hey, we left in poly2tri ==> we should get rid of it |
| 03:16:00 | watusimoto | every run into something like that? ==> no, that sounds really odd |
| 03:16:00 | watusimoto | or does it? what do you mean by "glut fns under openal?" |
| 03:16:00 | raptor | go here: http://www.dependencywalker.com/ |
| 03:17:00 | raptor | get the dependency checker |
| 03:17:00 | raptor | open up a bitfighter.exe with it |
| 03:20:00 | raptor | or even, to see my exact problem, open this exe: http://96.2.123.136/upload/bitfighter.exe_ |
| 03:24:00 | watusimoto | well, stepping back a little, what is the problem? |
| 03:24:00 | raptor | did you open that exe with the dependecy checker? |
| 03:25:00 | watusimoto | no; I didn't want to install it if I could get somewhere without it :-) |
| 03:25:00 | raptor | it is standalone |
| 03:25:00 | watusimoto | ok |
| 03:25:00 | raptor | no installation |
| 03:27:00 | watusimoto | errors |
| 03:28:00 | raptor | if you click on the openal32 one |
| 03:28:00 | raptor | you'll see that it is pointing to glut functions |
| 03:28:00 | watusimoto | can't find the openal.dll... I need to move the exe |
| 03:29:00 | raptor | i'm thinking it is because the DLL are linked to each other but were compiled with different tool-chains |
| 03:29:00 | watusimoto | not sure if that should matter or not |
| 03:30:00 | raptor | so goofy... |
| 03:30:00 | watusimoto | ok |
| 03:30:00 | raptor | i have an idea... |
| 03:30:00 | watusimoto | what am I looking for? |
| 03:30:00 | raptor | the openal32 library is in red, right? |
| 03:30:00 | watusimoto | yes |
| 03:30:00 | raptor | click on it and take a look at the functions to the right of it |
| 03:31:00 | watusimoto | ok... sure you don't want to back up and explain what you're trying to do? |
| 03:31:00 | raptor | there is one library: ALURE32 |
| 03:31:00 | raptor | links against openal32 |
| 03:32:00 | raptor | allow much nicer integratioin with openal and allows for mp3/vorbis music playback |
| 03:32:00 | raptor | i am trying to get it integrated on all three platforms :) |
| 03:32:00 | watusimoto | ok; so you're trying to replace alut with alure? |
| 03:32:00 | raptor | correct |
| 03:32:00 | watusimoto | ok |
| 03:32:00 | watusimoto | so what am I looking for in d.w.? |
| 03:33:00 | raptor | sam technically replace ALUT with one of his own methods a few revisions ago |
| 03:33:00 | watusimoto | i.e. no alut in 015a? |
| 03:33:00 | raptor | yep |
| 03:33:00 | watusimoto | ok |
| 03:33:00 | raptor | but i'm bringing back a toolkit: ALURE |
| 03:33:00 | raptor | because of many cool simple methods |
| 03:33:00 | watusimoto | ok |
| 03:34:00 | raptor | it'll help use get music into the game faster |
| 03:34:00 | watusimoto | ok |
| 03:34:00 | raptor | in DW |
| 03:34:00 | watusimoto | ok |
| 03:34:00 | raptor | if you click on openal32 library on the left |
| 03:34:00 | raptor | it displays the method calls on the right |
| 03:34:00 | raptor | the top right window show GLUT method calls |
| 03:34:00 | raptor | that is what is weird |
| 03:35:00 | raptor | they should be openal method calls |
| 03:35:00 | raptor | but i may have fixed it - I recompiled openal and alure with the same tool chains |
| 03:35:00 | watusimoto | I don't see that |
| 03:35:00 | raptor | really? |
| 03:35:00 | watusimoto | ok |
| 03:35:00 | raptor | what do you see? |
| 03:35:00 | watusimoto | I see alAux... alBuffer... etc. |
| 03:35:00 | raptor | that's great! |
| 03:36:00 | raptor | i wonder what i did to my build, then... |
| 03:36:00 | watusimoto | now wait |
| 03:36:00 | watusimoto | I had several dw windows open |
| 03:37:00 | watusimoto | the bottom one does show some glut stuff |
| 03:37:00 | raptor | ok |
| 03:37:00 | raptor | yeah |
| 03:37:00 | watusimoto | there are two panes to the r of the window where I selected openal32 from the tree |
| 03:37:00 | raptor | yes |
| 03:37:00 | watusimoto | the top one shows glut stuff, the bottom shows al stuff |
| 03:37:00 | raptor | exactly |
| 03:37:00 | watusimoto | on the other window, the top was empty |
| 03:38:00 | watusimoto | do you know what these two windows are? |
| 03:38:00 | raptor | the bottom one is what is actually in the dll |
| 03:38:00 | watusimoto | ok, all al stuff |
| 03:38:00 | raptor | the top one, I think, is what bitfighter thinks in the dll |
| 03:38:00 | watusimoto | hmmm |
| 03:38:00 | watusimoto | so the bottom should be a subset of the top? |
| 03:39:00 | watusimoto | sorry, superset |
| 03:39:00 | raptor | PI = Parent Import |
| 03:39:00 | raptor | E = export |
| 03:39:00 | watusimoto | ah |
| 03:39:00 | raptor | so E means what the real DLL says is there |
| 03:40:00 | watusimoto | well, I agree that if that's correct, what I'm seeing makes no sense |
| 03:40:00 | raptor | yep |
| 03:41:00 | watusimoto | ok, the other dlls look better |
| 03:41:00 | watusimoto | they make sense |
| 03:41:00 | raptor | OOoo |
| 03:41:00 | raptor | i think i fixed it |
| 03:41:00 | watusimoto | gof |
| 03:41:00 | watusimoto | good |
| 03:41:00 | raptor | can you test this binay for me?: http://96.2.123.136/upload/try50million.7z |
| 03:42:00 | raptor | please work please work |
| 03:45:00 | watusimoto | ok |
| 03:46:00 | watusimoto | works |
| 03:46:00 | raptor | WHAT!?!?!? |
| 03:46:00 | watusimoto | at least it runs and makes some sounds |
| 03:47:00 | watusimoto | so that seems promising |
| 03:47:00 | raptor | oh my goodness i can go to bed now |
| 03:47:00 | watusimoto | yes, good idea |
| 03:47:00 | raptor | so anything anomalous with the sounds? |
| 03:47:00 | watusimoto | hard to say... I only made it bleep twice |
| 03:47:00 | watusimoto | but they were the normal ones |
| 03:48:00 | raptor | could you please to a quick test of just shooting the phaser in a game? |
| 03:48:00 | watusimoto | sure -- got to undelete it :-) |
| 03:48:00 | raptor | and tell me if it is super soft or non-existant.. |
| 03:48:00 | raptor | haha, ok |
| 03:49:00 | watusimoto | sounds fine |
| 03:49:00 | watusimoto | exactly what I would expect |
| 03:49:00 | raptor | great!!! |
| 03:50:00 | raptor | that means I can check in after cleaning up a bit... |
| 03:50:00 | watusimoto | I think you're safe to sleep :-) |
| 03:50:00 | raptor | thank you thank you |
| 03:50:00 | watusimoto | yes; will I be able to build this? |
| 03:50:00 | raptor | yep - after i check it in |
| 03:50:00 | watusimoto | ok, great |
| 03:50:00 | raptor | already works in mac and linux |
| 03:50:00 | watusimoto | excellent |
| 03:50:00 | raptor | then i have two things to do: |
| 03:50:00 | watusimoto | so now we'll be able to play ogg and mp3 and stuff? |
| 03:51:00 | raptor | 1. refactor SFX class |
| 03:51:00 | watusimoto | or soon, anyway? |
| 03:51:00 | raptor | 2. integrate vorbis/mp3 |
| 03:51:00 | raptor | yep |
| 03:51:00 | watusimoto | ah |
| 03:51:00 | watusimoto | great |
| 03:51:00 | watusimoto | well, this is good work |
| 03:51:00 | raptor | the ALURE library auto detects the sound file and plays it for you |
| 03:51:00 | watusimoto | fab |
| 03:51:00 | watusimoto | so we can create a music folder and, for now, play stuff players dump in there |
| 03:52:00 | raptor | the developer of ALURE and OpenAL-Soft is very helpful - he helped me get over a few hurdles |
| 03:52:00 | watusimoto | we have a music vol control coded but disabled |
| 03:52:00 | raptor | ok |
| 03:52:00 | watusimoto | excellent |
| 03:52:00 | watusimoto | k wants to be able to have events trigger different music |
| 03:52:00 | watusimoto | maybe that's step 2. |
| 03:53:00 | watusimoto | step 1 is find some music |
| 03:53:00 | raptor | ah yes |
| 03:53:00 | watusimoto | but excellent work! |
| 03:53:00 | raptor | the great event trigger thread |
| 03:53:00 | watusimoto | sigh |
| 03:53:00 | raptor | or supervisor something something |
| 03:54:00 | watusimoto | the supervisor is essentially an event handler |
| 03:54:00 | watusimoto | ok, well, back to the f'n editor |
| 03:54:00 | raptor | i don't envy you |
| 03:54:00 | watusimoto | trying to untangle similar but different blocks of code |
| 03:55:00 | watusimoto | and merge them and make them use common subroutines and such |
| 03:55:00 | watusimoto | making progress still |
| 03:55:00 | watusimoto | and some things will work better |
| 03:55:00 | raptor | oh good |
| 03:55:00 | watusimoto | yes, it's a good design |
| 03:56:00 | raptor | i can't wait to break it :) |
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| 03:56:00 | watusimoto | I'm sure you will |
| 03:56:00 | raptor | hi sky_lark, welcome |
| 03:56:00 | sky_lark | hey |
| 03:56:00 | sky_lark | glad to see this is active :) |
| 03:57:00 | sky_lark | whoever's sending me messages... inbox full, dammit |
| 04:02:00 | raptor | 'hg serve' is awesome for transferring changsets between VMs |
| 04:04:00 | raptor | sky_lark: you like IRC? |
| 04:05:00 | sky_lark | @raptor I prefer ventrilo or teamspeak, but yes this is pretty cool ;) |
| 04:05:00 | raptor | are those specific applications? |
| 04:06:00 | sky_lark | yes |
| 04:06:00 | sky_lark | they are for voice chat |
| 04:07:00 | sky_lark | I think I'll like IRC; I'm simply not used to it |
| 04:07:00 | raptor | yeah, it's the most open chat platform out there |
| 04:07:00 | raptor | there are dozens of IRC clients |
| 04:07:00 | raptor | on all platforms |
| 04:07:00 | sky_lark | sweet |
| 04:11:00 | | kodaws has joined |
| 04:11:00 | sky_lark | hello kodaws |
| 04:11:00 | raptor | i should go to bed... |
| 04:13:00 | raptor | kodaws: just so you know, i spent all night getting OpenAL-Soft and ALURE compiled cleanly for windows (as small DLLs) |
| 04:14:00 | raptor | so now bitfighter has those working on all three platforms as of the most recent revision here: http://code.google.com/p/bitfighter/source/list |
| 04:14:00 | kodaws | hello |
| 04:14:00 | watusimoto | @bbr how long have i been talking about that job? |
| 04:15:00 | watusimoto | months? |
| 04:15:00 | kodaws | nice job raptor, does it work well? |
| 04:15:00 | watusimoto | it works great! |
| 04:15:00 | raptor | watusimoto: job? |
| 04:15:00 | watusimoto | LUX |
| 04:15:00 | watusimoto | the job in europe |
| 04:15:00 | raptor | umm, maybe three weeks? |
| 04:15:00 | raptor | 4? |
| 04:15:00 | kodaws | i don't know if i agree in bundling the dll in the source control though |
| 04:15:00 | watusimoto | is that all? |
| 04:16:00 | raptor | i remember you talking about wanting to go back to europe |
| 04:16:00 | watusimoto | I'm still waiting for the $%^ offer letter |
| 04:16:00 | raptor | maybe it's been 2 months actually |
| 04:16:00 | watusimoto | I interviewed in beginning of March |
| 04:17:00 | kodaws | raptor, are you sending your changes to mainstream as well? |
| 04:17:00 | raptor | kodaws: i have been in contact with the deveoper the whole time and told him how i got it to buld |
| 04:17:00 | raptor | build |
| 04:18:00 | kodaws | nice, but i hope he integrates well what he tells you in the main sources :p |
| 04:18:00 | raptor | kodaws: you are right about the DLL; but its only done for windows though since our build system on windows is vc++ and I couldn't get the library to compile with it (YET) |
| 04:20:00 | raptor | i had to use the cmake system with the command-line vc++ toolchain |
| 04:20:00 | raptor | but since hedgewars is already cmake, you should have no problems! (Although i don't know what you build with on windows after cmake does its thing) |
| 04:21:00 | kodaws | we crosscompile from linux |
| 04:21:00 | raptor | WHAT!? |
| 04:21:00 | kodaws | 8) |
| 04:21:00 | raptor | you're joking |
| 04:21:00 | raptor | how on earth did you get that to work? |
| 04:22:00 | kodaws | actually i don't know, but compiling on windows can be a little daunting |
| 04:22:00 | raptor | yes... that's why is 1:30 AM am i'm still awake :] |
| 04:23:00 | kodaws | bah between 2 and 3 am the focus for programming is at its peak |
| 04:23:00 | kodaws | SCIENCE proved it |
| 04:23:00 | raptor | peak insanity, yes |
| 04:23:00 | raptor | ok well, i'm starting to see spots |
| 04:24:00 | raptor | watusimoto: i hope you get that letter soon |
| 04:24:00 | raptor | good night all! |
| 04:24:00 | kodaws | good night |
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| 04:46:00 | sky_lark | night guys |
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| 12:42:00 | raptor | hi sam686, just FYI, I replaced your loadWAVFile function with an ALURE function - just to get the integration working |
| 12:51:00 | | karamazovapy reads back...bitfighter allure...?...hmm... |
| 12:53:00 | | watusimoto has joined |
| 12:57:00 | raptor | so now the question about music formats: do we want to distribute any libraries with mp3 support? |
| 12:57:00 | raptor | i believe it is wise to stick to vorbis |
| 12:57:00 | raptor | we are small enough a project that it probably doesn't matter |
| 12:59:00 | watusimoto | is it legal to distribute mp3 code? |
| 13:14:00 | raptor | no way |
| 13:14:00 | raptor | not in our country, at least |
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| 14:06:00 | watusimoto | thanks for deleting that stuff -- it was always compiling regardless of whether it had changed or not |
| 14:11:00 | raptor | sure |
| 14:11:00 | raptor | i was thinking - we could set up a bot to post new revisions in IRC |
| 14:14:00 | watusimoto | I get notices via email... I could turn those off, perhaps |
| 14:14:00 | watusimoto | if we had an irc bot |
| 14:14:00 | watusimoto | so I was working on this editor enahncement last night |
| 14:14:00 | watusimoto | if 015a if you have a flag item, it is always drawn at a fixed size regardless of zoom scale |
| 14:15:00 | watusimoto | this makes sense when you're zommed way out, so you can still see where the flags are |
| 14:15:00 | raptor | ah |
| 14:15:00 | watusimoto | but when you zoom way in, the flag is smaller than life |
| 14:15:00 | watusimoto | I've changed it so when you zoom in, it gets larger, but when you zoom out, it stays a fixed size, beyond some threshold |
| 14:16:00 | raptor | 'gets larger' as in back to normal size? |
| 14:16:00 | raptor | oh wait |
| 14:16:00 | watusimoto | that was pretty easy, but then selecting it became a pain; you never know how big your mouse-click hit area should be |
| 14:16:00 | raptor | editor talk here, nevermind |
| 14:16:00 | watusimoto | it reacts the way you'd expect |
| 14:16:00 | raptor | that makes sense |
| 14:16:00 | watusimoto | so, I got that to work, but that broke the selection handles on the line items I'd already coded (speed zone, text item, teleporter) as those handles are always the same size |
| 14:17:00 | watusimoto | so we've got some handles that grow and shrink (with thresholds where their behavior changes) and some that are constant, and it all got very complex |
| 14:17:00 | raptor | soudns like it |
| 14:17:00 | watusimoto | but I think it's working now, and I got to eliminate a chunk of code in the process |
| 14:17:00 | watusimoto | so.. win-win |
| 14:18:00 | watusimoto | I think tonight I'l lbe able to add the rest of the point items in relatively short order |
| 14:18:00 | watusimoto | though I've been saying that for a while now |
| 14:28:00 | raptor | i'm gonna make this log bot smarter |
| 14:28:00 | raptor | hook into google code/etc. |
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| 21:22:00 | zoomber | hi |
| 21:22:00 | raptor | hi |
| 21:22:00 | zoomber | have you figured out what "voice" is yet? |
| 21:22:00 | raptor | yes |
| 21:23:00 | zoomber | er, is it the ability for you to speak in cetrain chat rooms that have it turned on? |
| 21:23:00 | raptor | it is if i turn on channel moderation, then no one can message unless they have 'voice' |
| 21:23:00 | zoomber | i see |
| 21:26:00 | karamazovapy | womp womp womp |
| 21:29:00 | karamazovapy | [sigh]...asians... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsO5hdrh9XU |
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| 22:13:00 | raptor | I learned an interesting programming concept today: the God object |
| 22:14:00 | raptor | i.e. in OO programming, it's an object that knows way too much; like has members that point everywhere |
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