Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
| 00:00:00 | zoomber | soommeonee go onlinee |
| 00:04:00 | zoomber | mac is so scary to boot up |
| 00:12:00 | | watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 00:16:00 | raptor | hi |
| 00:30:00 | zoomber | it may look like on the outside, the mac booting screen is all nice and colufull |
| 00:30:00 | zoomber | but its a scary zombie invasion watching your hackintosh try to boot up successfully |
| 00:30:00 | raptor | just like a linux box! |
| 00:30:00 | zoomber | yeah |
| 00:31:00 | zoomber | first the kexts list loads |
| 00:31:00 | zoomber | all the plugins mac loads |
| 00:31:00 | zoomber | thats around the time the macbook shows the apple with the lines going in a circle |
| 00:31:00 | zoomber | then, when normally you see, "Mac OS X is starting up", you see a bunch of logged items loading |
| 00:32:00 | zoomber | and if something gets wrong, a looooooongg list of a kernal panic and traceback shows |
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| 00:32:00 | zoomber | hi watusimoto o o o o |
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| 00:58:00 | | BitfighterLogBot - Commit 8787da28512e | Author: watusim...@bitfighter.org | Log: Eliminate a whole slew of global vars. Get all UIs from UIManager. Probably has some subtle bugs. |
| 00:58:00 | | BitfighterLogBot - Commit 548f172ab81e | Author: watusim...@bitfighter.org | Log: Merge |
| 00:58:00 | | BitfighterLogBot - Commit 667f6eec7a93 | Author: watusim...@bitfighter.org | Log: Need these too... |
| 00:59:00 | | [1]watusimoto has joined |
| 01:12:00 | raptor | yay for merge |
| 01:16:00 | raptor | [1]watusimoto: can you please explain what you have in mind for the UIManager? |
| 01:16:00 | raptor | also, was there a reason to chose auto_ptr instead of shared_ptr? |
| 01:45:00 | raptor | cleaning up compile errors... |
| 01:47:00 | raptor | i have ~130 linking errors... |
| 01:47:00 | raptor | oh duh |
| 01:47:00 | raptor | new class |
| 02:03:00 | raptor | i get one error now when linking, not sure the cause: |
| 02:03:00 | raptor | UIManager.o: In function `MessageUserInterface': |
| 02:03:00 | raptor | UIMessage.h:51: undefined reference to `vtable for Zap::MessageUserInterface' |
| 02:12:00 | | zoomber_laptop Quit (Quit: zoomber_laptop) |
| 02:31:00 | sam686 | the editor 016 might be missing heal rate option for turret and forcefield. |
| 02:32:00 | raptor | sam686: thank you for fixing the joystick typo of mine... |
| 02:33:00 | raptor | (axesMask instead of axesDirection) |
| 02:33:00 | raptor | that is why I shouldn't write code at 2 in the morning... |
| 02:53:00 | | BitfighterLogBot - Commit 5865b6af2f05 | Author: buckyballreaction | Log: Fix compiler errors/warnings on linux |
| 03:53:00 | [1]watusimoto | uiManager |
| 03:54:00 | [1]watusimoto | it's a place to get alll your UIs |
| 03:54:00 | [1]watusimoto | rather than having a series of global vars |
| 03:54:00 | raptor | ah ok |
| 03:54:00 | [1]watusimoto | UIs are now created on an as-needed basis |
| 03:54:00 | [1]watusimoto | which should make start up quicker |
| 03:54:00 | [1]watusimoto | and, perhaps, reduce memory |
| 03:54:00 | [1]watusimoto | if you don;t visit all the uis in a given session |
| 03:54:00 | raptor | is auto_ptr self-cleaning? |
| 03:54:00 | [1]watusimoto | also, uis aren't created for server games anymore |
| 03:55:00 | [1]watusimoto | yes |
| 03:55:00 | raptor | oh yay |
| 03:55:00 | [1]watusimoto | it is |
| 03:55:00 | sam686 | before all the 016 changes, i think all that ui stuff get created even if running only a dedicated server.. |
| 03:55:00 | raptor | it did |
| 03:55:00 | [1]watusimoto | yes |
| 03:55:00 | [1]watusimoto | I haven't tested it, but that shouldn't happen anymore |
| 03:55:00 | [1]watusimoto | I want to simplify getting the uis, but this works for now |
| 03:55:00 | raptor | so i was thinking |
| 03:56:00 | raptor | we should have some sort of minimum code style we should follow |
| 03:56:00 | [1]watusimoto | there is a separate set for each game: gClientGame, gEditorGame, and gServerGame |
| 03:56:00 | [1]watusimoto | though none should ever be created for gServerGame |
| 03:56:00 | raptor | like should we: |
| 03:56:00 | [1]watusimoto | and there shouldn;t be much overlap btwn those that are created for client and editor games |
| 03:56:00 | raptor | 1. use forward declarations where possible |
| 03:56:00 | [1]watusimoto | of course |
| 03:56:00 | sam686 | gClientGame / gServerGame is a pointer, it only creates at certain point of code.. |
| 03:57:00 | raptor | 2. not use 'using' in headers (or anywhere) |
| 03:57:00 | [1]watusimoto | how do we avoid that one? |
| 03:57:00 | raptor | 3. try to not have #include chains |
| 03:57:00 | [1]watusimoto | we should try |
| 03:57:00 | sam686 | possibly avoind #include in .h files.. |
| 03:57:00 | [1]watusimoto | I did 1 and 3 pretty well with uimanager |
| 03:58:00 | [1]watusimoto | all the includes aer in the .cpp file; the .h has only forward declarations |
| 03:58:00 | raptor | I have a question about forward declarations... |
| 03:58:00 | raptor | are they really needed anymore? |
| 03:58:00 | [1]watusimoto | aren;t they? |
| 03:58:00 | raptor | i mean - they were used when RAM was at a premium |
| 03:58:00 | [1]watusimoto | I thought they were used to avoid includes |
| 03:58:00 | raptor | well yes |
| 03:58:00 | [1]watusimoto | and make compilation faster |
| 03:58:00 | [1]watusimoto | not to save memory |
| 03:59:00 | raptor | i read that they were used to save memory |
| 03:59:00 | raptor | not necessarily to make compilation faster... |
| 03:59:00 | [1]watusimoto | also, ui manager should handle having different UIs if we have different clientGames |
| 03:59:00 | sam686 | take a look at point.h, there is no includes (except string), and it has a BitStream.. |
| 03:59:00 | raptor | also, they tend to goof up IDE 'open declaration' ability sometimes |
| 03:59:00 | [1]watusimoto | open declaration ??? |
| 04:00:00 | raptor | ctrl-click a class and you go right to it/...?? |
| 04:00:00 | raptor | is that not available in vc++? |
| 04:00:00 | [1]watusimoto | I've mapped that to alt-enter |
| 04:01:00 | sam686 | for me, i can right click class, then "Go to definition" |
| 04:01:00 | raptor | yes |
| 04:01:00 | raptor | that |
| 04:01:00 | [1]watusimoto | that |
| 04:01:00 | [1]watusimoto | yes, they do goof that up |
| 04:01:00 | raptor | forward decs can goof that up sometimes... |
| 04:01:00 | [1]watusimoto | but they;re better than including stuff |
| 04:02:00 | [1]watusimoto | helps avoid .h chains |
| 04:02:00 | raptor | this is informative: |
| 04:02:00 | raptor | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2632601/why-are-forward-declarations-necessary |
| 04:02:00 | raptor | the first answer, at least |
| 04:04:00 | raptor | I'm still not convinced that forward decs make things all that faster anymore |
| 04:04:00 | raptor | but RAM reduction I can see |
| 04:04:00 | sam686 | avoiding includes reduce compiling memory, and can speed up compiler.. |
| 04:06:00 | sam686 | in most .h files, having #ifdef to only include .h once, can be slow if having to include more then once, has to read whole file line by line until it find #endif |
| 04:07:00 | raptor | i guess that's true... |
| 04:08:00 | sam686 | some tnl .h files have this that might speed up a little bit: fndef _TNL_TYPES_H_ include "tnlTypes.h" #endif |
| 04:08:00 | raptor | header header guards? |
| 04:08:00 | raptor | haha |
| 04:09:00 | raptor | that's actually a good idea... |
| 04:09:00 | [1]watusimoto | but if I have a header that includes another header, and I modify that second included header, it forces a recompile of everything that includes it |
| 04:09:00 | raptor | yep |
| 04:09:00 | raptor | such is the nature of headers, right? |
| 04:09:00 | raptor | ohhhh |
| 04:09:00 | raptor | ok |
| 04:09:00 | [1]watusimoto | so it might not speed compiling from the ground up, but can cause major recompilation for minor changes |
| 04:09:00 | [1]watusimoto | advanced declrations avoid that |
| 04:10:00 | raptor | so i full compile in 40 seconds, i forgot that you guys take several minutes.. |
| 04:10:00 | [1]watusimoto | if I can just do and adv decl of a class, and I change that class, it doesn;t require a recompile |
| 04:10:00 | sam686 | it has to recompile all .cpp files that use changed .h files, even if included indirectly.. |
| 04:10:00 | [1]watusimoto | right |
| 04:10:00 | [1]watusimoto | exactly |
| 04:10:00 | [1]watusimoto | besides, raptor, if you are recompiling everyting on your fast computer, you are still hastening the heat death of the universe |
| 04:11:00 | [1]watusimoto | by using adv declr, we can slow that a bit |
| 04:11:00 | raptor | haha |
| 04:11:00 | raptor | absolute entropy |
| 04:13:00 | raptor | ok well - i will make an effort to use forward decs, then |
| 04:13:00 | raptor | even if i think they are ugly and slow down my class search time |
| 04:13:00 | sam686 | maybe #pragma once could be used insted of define guard in .h files. i see this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragma_once |
| 04:14:00 | raptor | that is not guaranteed to work on older versions of gcc (and by extension mac...) |
| 04:14:00 | raptor | sadly |
| 04:14:00 | sam686 | thats one problem, doesn�t work on all different compilers.. |
| 04:15:00 | sam686 | plus, who uses outdated linux if most can often upgrade to free? |
| 04:15:00 | raptor | most VPS... |
| 04:15:00 | raptor | but that will be resolved in a year when they all update their systems to centos 5 |
| 04:15:00 | raptor | er centos 6 |
| 04:16:00 | raptor | (I think) |
| 04:16:00 | [1]watusimoto | I think I've just eliminated the need for gEditorgame |
| 04:16:00 | raptor | as for style #2 (using namespaces): |
| 04:16:00 | raptor | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1452721/why-is-using-namespace-std-considered-a-bad-practice-in-c |
| 04:16:00 | raptor | it isn't for performance, but for avoidance of method collisions |
| 04:16:00 | raptor | well - it isn't for performance any more... |
| 04:17:00 | [1]watusimoto | I don;t want to prefix all our stuff with TNL:: or std:: |
| 04:18:00 | raptor | it was originally for performance reasons in header files |
| 04:18:00 | sam686 | having to prefix TNL:: and all that stuff can make files bigger size.. |
| 04:18:00 | raptor | because it would load the whole namespace in each header |
| 04:19:00 | raptor | i started doing it for a couple headers, but i wanted to talk to you guys about it first before I kept doing it |
| 04:20:00 | raptor | code style differences is started to hurt my brain a little... |
| 04:20:00 | raptor | I suggest we write a wiki page on code style and put these things in there; as well as things like 3-space indentation |
| 04:21:00 | sam686 | having to prefix TNL:: 100 times can make file size 500 bytes bigger.. |
| 04:21:00 | raptor | OK how about this: i'll do a crazy for loop that'll compile a class 1000 times and we'll do some testing to see what slows down the compiler |
| 04:30:00 | raptor | here is the script i will use and pass it to 'time': http://pastie.org/2262099 |
| 04:34:00 | raptor | here is the first test with using 'using namespace' in the header: http://pastie.org/2262110 |
| 04:34:00 | raptor | sorry, that is the class file i am using |
| 04:38:00 | raptor | results with putting using namespace in header: http://pastie.org/2262115 |
| 04:46:00 | raptor | ok, empirical evidence that not using 'using namespace' has no effect: http://pastie.org/2262115 |
| 04:46:00 | raptor | now for forward decs... |
| 04:50:00 | sam686 | i will be testing speed of compiler if using namespace TNL to remove TNL:: in point.h and see if there any speed differences.. |
| 04:52:00 | raptor | yeah - you can do it, i found no difference with or without it, so why not make our code more legible |
| 04:52:00 | raptor | we just have to not conflict with method names in the namespace |
| 04:53:00 | raptor | ok, testing 250 compile iterations with including 'Point.h' |
| 05:03:00 | sam686 | using namespace TNL and removing TNL:: in point.h, gives me 6 min 16 sec, keeping it the way it is gaves me 6 min 20 sec, very small speed difference.. |
| 05:07:00 | raptor | OK |
| 05:08:00 | raptor | when i see the TNL:: in a header, i'll remove then and go back to 'using namespace' |
| 05:12:00 | sam686 | one possible way to speed up compiling is to combine multiple .cpp files into one .cpp.. |
| 05:12:00 | raptor | yes, that would work - would use lots more RAM, too |
| 05:12:00 | sam686 | but then, it will need more memory to compile a big .cpp file.. |
| 05:30:00 | raptor | ok results: http://pastie.org/2262198 |
| 05:30:00 | raptor | i find no speed advantage with forward declaring |
| 05:31:00 | raptor | however, the advantage I could see would be with IDE auto-detection of what classes need to be recompiled; but does that offset the muddling with 'open definition/declaration' ? |
| 05:32:00 | sam686 | maybe the one .cpp file you was testing included point.h, making forward declaration no speed gain except on file that don not include point.h |
| 05:32:00 | raptor | please reword that |
| 05:32:00 | sam686 | did you test speed of full rebuild or only one cpp file? |
| 05:33:00 | raptor | just one cpp file |
| 05:33:00 | sam686 | testing only one .cpp may not be enough and might be inaccurate. |
| 05:34:00 | raptor | i did 10 cpp in one instance |
| 05:35:00 | sam686 | maybe your CPU is too fast, the hard disk is randomly slowing down compiling throwing timing off.. |
| 05:35:00 | raptor | yes - i think i'm just too fast |
| 05:36:00 | raptor | but I also think that the difference found on your end might only be a couple seconds out of 5 minutes, as well |
| 05:36:00 | raptor | but i did three tests with each battery |
| 05:36:00 | raptor | to throw off any randomness |
| 05:37:00 | raptor | if I had seen even 1 second differenc in some place, then that would have been good |
| 05:37:00 | raptor | but the average times are only off from each other roughly 200ms |
| 05:38:00 | sam686 | i think it is because of your computer being 64-bit, your linux might be 64-bit if i am right |
| 05:39:00 | raptor | yes, i run everything 64bit |
| 05:39:00 | raptor | how do you suppose that affects it compared to 32bit? |
| 05:40:00 | sam686 | not sure.. |
| 05:41:00 | sam686 | i guess linux compiler have some tricks that speed up compiling, and windows compile some things differently.. |
| 05:41:00 | raptor | yeah |
| 05:41:00 | raptor | comparing mine to yours is futile |
| 05:41:00 | raptor | i think |
| 05:41:00 | raptor | but now you know why I don't think forward decs do much other than clutter code... |
| 05:42:00 | raptor | but on your end, they might do a lot |
| 05:43:00 | sam686 | since i have 1.5 GB ram, i can try having one .cpp file include multiple .cpp files, i really do see speed increase of compiling while i am in the middle of doing it.. |
| 05:43:00 | raptor | i wonder if there is some utility that will combine all the .h/.cpp into one file for us - like sqlite does |
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| 05:45:00 | sam686 | i frequently running into Redifinition static Vector<DatabaseObject *> fillVector; zap/gameobject.cpp line 215 and others.. |
| 05:46:00 | raptor | yuk |
| 05:54:00 | raptor | ok, well good night |
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| 07:08:00 | zoomber_laptop | hey karamazovapy you still on? |
| 07:49:00 | | BitfighterLogBot - Commit 6a456a4a0eb3 | Author: sam8641 | Log: Remove multiple static fillVector, now only one global fillVector |
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| 10:04:00 | | BitfighterLogBot - Commit add15d67aedc | Author: sam8641 | Log: Fix idle problem from shared fillVector, moved MAX_FILE_NAME_LEN, fix project file |
| 12:49:00 | | BitfighterLogBot - Commit 03734a261818 | Author: sam8641 | Log: Fix turret hostile team error, fix burst won't damage |
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| 14:25:00 | karamazovapy | cholla |
| 15:05:00 | watusimoto | hey there |
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| 16:26:00 | watusimoto | yessir... I buggered things up pretty well with my last checkin |
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| 17:15:00 | | BitfighterLogBot - Commit 66dbf570d711 | Author: watusim...@bitfighter.org | Log: Got rid of gEditorGame |
| 17:15:00 | | BitfighterLogBot - Commit de9e650ec1e8 | Author: watusim...@bitfighter.org | Log: Fix some quirks resulting from last checkin; includes ugly hack |
| 17:15:00 | | BitfighterLogBot - Commit 1b037136df44 | Author: watusim...@bitfighter.org | Log: Merge |
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| 17:15:00 | zoomber_laptop | hi [1]watusimoto |
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| 17:19:00 | zoomber_laptop | hey karamazovapy, are you present? |
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| 17:55:00 | | BitfighterLogBot - Commit 10fb08a39869 | Author: watusim...@bitfighter.org | Log: Fixed editor name prepopluation by instituting another crappy hack... there is a flaw with the UIManager design. |
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| 20:30:00 | zoomber_laptop | hi raptor |
| 20:30:00 | raptor | hi |
| 20:42:00 | raptor | sam686: did you do any more test with forward decs? |
| 20:46:00 | raptor | so karamazovapy, how many contests would I have to win to get the cheapest dual action USB joystick on the market? :) |
| 21:04:00 | watusimoto | do you have one in mind? |
| 21:04:00 | raptor | negatory |
| 21:07:00 | watusimoto | I'll buy you one |
| 21:07:00 | raptor | no no no no |
| 21:07:00 | raptor | but thanks |
| 21:07:00 | raptor | I have to earn one... |
| 21:10:00 | watusimoto | do you mow lawns? |
| 21:10:00 | raptor | i used to... lots and lots |
| 21:11:00 | watusimoto | well, great. Come to Portland, I'll put you to work |
| 21:11:00 | raptor | i would seriously take you up on that if I lived nearby :) |
| 21:14:00 | watusimoto | so would I! |
| 21:28:00 | zoomber_laptop | you could come to los angeles, which is a bit closer, but then..I have no lawn.. |
| 21:29:00 | zoomber_laptop | I'm making the biggest longest levelgen I have ever made |
| 21:55:00 | | BitfighterLogBot - Commit eff1731ae6d9 | Author: watusim...@bitfighter.org | Log: Minor refactor -- fewer globals |
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| 23:17:00 | raptor | ok. so. falling asleep in the middle of the afternoon amounts to dreams about your teeth falling out in pieces... |
| 23:24:00 | zoomber_laptop | lol |
| 23:24:00 | zoomber_laptop | ive had one of those before |
| 23:24:00 | raptor | still slightly shaken up.. |
| 23:24:00 | zoomber_laptop | anyone good at lua stuff? |
| 23:25:00 | zoomber_laptop | im trying to make a levelgen, and its all good, but every occasionall time i load one, it fails |
| 23:25:00 | zoomber_laptop | most of the times it works, but once in a while, the map is bare |
| 23:25:00 | raptor | i was just thinking I should learn to use LUA... |
| 23:26:00 | zoomber_laptop | atually, i think i might have found the error |
| 23:26:00 | zoomber_laptop | maybe* |
| 23:27:00 | zoomber_laptop | Variable 'LooadoutImportant' cannot be used if it is not first declared |
| 23:27:00 | zoomber_laptop | that cant be it, because I defined that; it must be an old error |
| 23:28:00 | zoomber_laptop | oh no |
| 23:28:00 | zoomber_laptop | that is it |
| 23:28:00 | zoomber_laptop | now tht message is at the top of the log |
| 23:28:00 | zoomber_laptop | ah |
| 23:28:00 | zoomber_laptop | aha! |
| 23:29:00 | zoomber_laptop | funny how you can spell one word wrong and the whole levelgen crashes |
| 23:32:00 | raptor | well - i supposed I should get PNG screenshots to work in Mac... |
| 23:34:00 | zoomber_laptop | no need to? |
| 23:35:00 | raptor | i was thinking that.. |
| 23:35:00 | raptor | how do you do it now? |
| 23:35:00 | zoomber_laptop | command + option + 3 = full screen shot automatically |
| 23:35:00 | zoomber_laptop | command + option + 4 = Select area of screen to capture |
| 23:35:00 | zoomber_laptop | if using windows, command will be the windows icon button |
| 23:35:00 | zoomber_laptop | or the apple key, if you refer to it that way |
| 23:41:00 | raptor | is wiki fully functional again? |
| 23:42:00 | zoomber_laptop | i dont know |
| 23:42:00 | zoomber_laptop | readable\ |
| 23:47:00 | raptor | great - having a hard time finding the binary for 10.4 |
| 23:47:00 | raptor | since lion came out - i think everyone is dropping 10.4 quickly |
| 23:51:00 | zoomber_laptop | yes |
| 23:51:00 | zoomber_laptop | i plan to get it just for my macbook |
| 23:51:00 | zoomber_laptop | but keep my desktop with 10.6 |
| 23:52:00 | zoomber_laptop | Perfect for bitfighter, as I will have xcode 4 on one machine, and xcode 3 with the old sdks on the toher |
| 23:52:00 | zoomber_laptop | as soon as i get it, i will compile a bitfighter-for lion |
| 23:53:00 | zoomber_laptop | I did some edits to the code, (some not on my clone yet). I think It will work, but who knows |