Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
| 00:05:58 | Watusimoto | so I disagree witht that last change |
| 00:06:14 | Watusimoto | I think if you have a joystick plugged in, the game should start in joystick mode |
| 00:06:14 | raptor | ok |
| 00:06:22 | Watusimoto | it's worked that way for a long time |
| 00:06:40 | Watusimoto | and, in 99% of the cases, makes sense |
| 00:06:47 | raptor | really? I just tested with 015a and it always starts up with keyboard |
| 00:07:19 | Watusimoto | when I plugged a stick in, 015a started in js mode, I'm pretty sure |
| 00:07:29 | raptor | i thought i was just changing back to the old behavior |
| 00:07:31 | Watusimoto | because that's how my kids play, and I don;t think they know how to change the input mode |
| 00:07:53 | Watusimoto | I don;t think that;s a reversion |
| 00:08:10 | raptor | ok, i'll test again... |
| 00:08:24 | Watusimoto | here's what I think we could do to fix the problem for joe |
| 00:08:53 | Watusimoto | we could just add an INI setting (only settable via editing the INI) that basically tells it to always start in keyboard mode |
| 00:08:55 | raptor | yep, on 015a, with JS attached - started in keyboard mode |
| 00:09:00 | raptor | clean compile |
| 00:09:01 | Watusimoto | and he could set that |
| 00:09:06 | raptor | ok |
| 00:09:10 | Watusimoto | ok, well... there's a bug in your 015a! |
| 00:09:16 | raptor | going to 015... |
| 00:09:19 | Watusimoto | :-) |
| 00:09:25 | Watusimoto | what platform? |
| 00:09:32 | raptor | in any case, you've convinced me with your better idea |
| 00:09:45 | raptor | linux |
| 00:09:49 | Watusimoto | I think in 015a, js detection only worked on windows and mac |
| 00:10:18 | raptor | oh yeah... i forgot that JS wasn't platform independent before like it is now... |
| 00:10:21 | Watusimoto | didn;t you do some hellish refactor to make js work on linux |
| 00:10:23 | Watusimoto | ? |
| 00:10:39 | Watusimoto | so I wouls suggest unreverting and adding the INI setting |
| 00:10:50 | raptor | ok |
| 00:10:56 | Watusimoto | call it UnknownJoeStick |
| 00:11:02 | Watusimoto | no, maybe not |
| 00:11:07 | Watusimoto | :-) |
| 00:11:13 | raptor | uhh.. it wasn't a refactor - it was a complete rewrite of the joystick system for 016 |
| 00:11:21 | raptor | by complete, i mean 100% |
| 00:11:23 | Watusimoto | I thought you did both, actually |
| 00:11:28 | raptor | then sam686 fixed all my bugs :) |
| 00:11:35 | raptor | i don't remember.. |
| 00:11:46 | Watusimoto | I know you spent a lot of time on it, whatever you did |
| 00:11:50 | Watusimoto | and it was not without pain |
| 00:12:12 | raptor | hmmm... the human mind has a way about forgetting pain... |
| 00:12:15 | raptor | maybe that's the case here |
| 00:12:25 | raptor | but i'll revert.. |
| 00:13:46 | raptor | so INI option, only settable in iNI? |
| 00:13:48 | Watusimoto | that's the only reason women have a second child |
| 00:13:52 | Watusimoto | I think co |
| 00:13:54 | Watusimoto | so |
| 00:14:02 | Watusimoto | this is a pretty esoteric setting |
| 00:14:13 | raptor | you are so true... my wife actually said she'd have another not 2 days after our second was born |
| 00:14:34 | sam686 | probable, i think 015a will not use a joystick (defaulting to keyboard), with an unknown joystick name, i guess |
| 00:14:37 | Watusimoto | Maybe |
| 00:14:54 | Watusimoto | maybe we could change the input selector to Joystick Keyboard Autodetect |
| 00:14:58 | Watusimoto | and skip the ini setting |
| 00:15:09 | | BFLogBot - Commit c2c658235748 | Author: buckyballreaction | Log: Revert last change |
| 00:15:12 | raptor | why? |
| 00:15:33 | raptor | it already has autodetect -> if joystick, set joystick, else keyboard |
| 00:15:35 | sam686 | and with 015a's linux joystick wasn't coded to read joystick name, it might have thought it was an unknown joystick name, or maybe joystick name might be different on linux |
| 00:15:42 | Watusimoto | just a different design to solve the problem |
| 00:16:14 | Watusimoto | but that may be more confusing than the ini setting |
| 00:16:36 | Watusimoto | I think the linux joystick was completely ignored in 015a |
| 00:16:39 | Watusimoto | lots of empty functions |
| 00:17:54 | sam686 | i think it should skip unknown joystick and find another joystick with supported name, if none is found, set it as keyboard instead |
| 00:18:25 | Watusimoto | what does it do now? pick generic joystick? |
| 00:18:51 | sam686 | i think right now on 016, it just sets to joystick no matter which joystick it is.. |
| 00:19:22 | Watusimoto | what it did in 015a was if it didn't recognize the js, it set it to the one you last used |
| 00:19:40 | Watusimoto | which makes sense for having an unrecognized string that works with one of the other presets |
| 00:19:48 | Watusimoto | I think that no longer works |
| 00:19:59 | sam686 | i am not sure, though, how 015a does it, i think it does keyboard if it can't find any matching supported joystick name (or maybe previously used joystick, not sure) |
| 00:20:55 | Watusimoto | !bug |
| 00:20:55 | BFLogBot | To enter a bug, please make sure it is reproducible and then go to http://code.google.com/p/bitfighter/issues/list | Also, see current running bug list: http://bitfighter.org/wiki/index.php/Running_Bug_List |
| 00:21:52 | Watusimoto | or |
| 00:21:56 | Watusimoto | what if we did this |
| 00:22:10 | Watusimoto | if you plug in a recognized joystick, that is automatically selected |
| 00:23:02 | raptor | all three platforms should be the same now |
| 00:23:16 | raptor | and i have already forgotten the past |
| 00:23:26 | Watusimoto | no |
| 00:23:32 | Watusimoto | that idea doesn;t work |
| 00:24:52 | raptor | soo... should i just add my ini setting and call it good? |
| 00:30:30 | raptor | testing the INI setting 'forceKeyboardMode' |
| 00:31:23 | Watusimoto | yes |
| 00:31:40 | Watusimoto | how about AlwaysStartInKeyboardMode? |
| 00:31:45 | raptor | luckily i still have my friend's xbox controller... |
| 00:31:52 | raptor | ok |
| 00:31:57 | raptor | that is more descriptive |
| 00:35:18 | Watusimoto | more descriptive == less questions in the forum! |
| 00:36:10 | Watusimoto | there aer a TON of forum messages |
| 00:38:40 | raptor | change committed |
| 00:39:46 | raptor | Watusimoto: aren't you 8 hours ahead? |
| 00:40:04 | Watusimoto | it's closing in on 2AM here |
| 00:40:14 | | BFLogBot - Commit fec87002a2ae | Author: buckyballreaction | Log: Add INI option to always start in keyboard mode |
| 00:40:51 | Watusimoto | ok, there's no way this fix is getting done tonight... 173 errors |
| 00:40:57 | Watusimoto | so... I'm going to bed |
| 00:41:14 | raptor | night |
| 00:41:19 | raptor | what fix? |
| 00:41:36 | Watusimoto | stupid #$%^& num keypad fix |
| 00:41:44 | Watusimoto | has gottne completely out of control |
| 00:41:52 | raptor | sounds like you need to do it in the day time |
| 00:41:53 | Watusimoto | kaboom |
| 00:41:59 | Watusimoto | perhaps so |
| 00:42:25 | Watusimoto | luckily, I saw a function you added for a different purpose that gave me an idea for an easier way |
| 00:42:49 | raptor | oh good |
| 00:42:50 | Watusimoto | but I need to finish this conceptually trivial refactor first |
| 00:43:07 | | LoneWolfy has joined |
| 00:43:17 | Watusimoto | putting all the loose functions in InputCode.h into a mostly static class |
| 00:43:38 | Watusimoto | just lots of places I need to add InputCodeManager:: |
| 00:43:49 | Watusimoto | boooring! |
| 00:43:51 | Watusimoto | anyway |
| 00:44:13 | Watusimoto | good night |
| 00:44:14 | raptor | that's the stuff i'm good at.. |
| 00:44:17 | raptor | good night |
| 00:44:20 | Watusimoto | :-> |
| 00:44:58 | raptor | c++-izing those pesky enums |
| 00:49:43 | | Watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 01:29:28 | raptor | LoneWolfy: your toilet map is n=unique |
| 01:29:32 | raptor | unique |
| 01:29:59 | LoneWolfy | :P |
| 01:30:42 | raptor | one of the few maps where bouncers rule the day |
| 01:46:58 | | koda Quit (Quit: I used to be chatting like you. Then I took an arrow in the knee) |
| 01:54:22 | raptor | sadly, updating to the latest SDL doesn't fix some of the mac problems... |
| 02:31:13 | raptor | idea: no windowed mode for mac |
| 02:31:22 | raptor | i'm starting to like that idea |
| 03:20:29 | | BFLogBot - Commit 6b7dbaa898d9 | Author: buckyballreaction | Log: A little less noisiness on Mac |
| 03:37:17 | | LoneWolfy Quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 03:45:21 | raptor | we need a mac developer... |
| 05:15:28 | | raptor Quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 06:02:17 | | karamazovapy Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 06:02:39 | | karamazovapy has joined |
| 10:57:28 | | LordDVG has joined |
| 13:07:27 | | antoszka has joined |
| 13:08:02 | antoszka | Hi there. Tried to compile hg-tip and 016. The first fails on too many fronts I'm able to deal with; |
| 13:08:29 | antoszka | however 016 needed an #include "zlib.h" and all the object files compiled correctly, however it will not link: |
| 13:08:32 | antoszka | http://wklej.org/id/684086/ |
| 13:08:54 | antoszka | Seems like it missing some -l<reference-to-internal-library>, any hints how to fix that? |
| 14:03:14 | | koda has joined |
| 15:16:25 | | watusimoto has joined |
| 15:16:26 | | ChanServ sets mode +o watusimoto |
| 15:33:48 | watusimoto | !bug |
| 15:33:48 | BFLogBot | To enter a bug, please make sure it is reproducible and then go to http://code.google.com/p/bitfighter/issues/list | Also, see current running bug list: http://bitfighter.org/wiki/index.php/Running_Bug_List |
| 15:36:09 | | raptor has joined |
| 15:36:09 | | ChanServ sets mode +o raptor |
| 15:36:52 | raptor | good day antoszka |
| 15:37:19 | raptor | all class files correctly include the proper headers |
| 15:37:58 | raptor | if you are compiling on linux, you may be missing some development headers on your system |
| 15:40:58 | raptor | hi watusimoto |
| 15:55:09 | | sam686 Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 15:58:24 | | sam686 has joined |
| 15:58:24 | | ChanServ sets mode +v sam686 |
| 16:07:39 | watusimoto | hi |
| 16:07:43 | raptor | hello |
| 16:07:56 | raptor | so i found how how to fix the mac shortcuts |
| 16:08:06 | | koda Quit (Quit: I used to be chatting like you. Then I took an arrow in the knee) |
| 16:08:07 | watusimoto | great |
| 16:08:11 | raptor | either: 1. I add a patch to SDL itself |
| 16:08:11 | watusimoto | hey, do we have a way for people to update the MOTD that is scrolled across the game? |
| 16:08:20 | watusimoto | ok |
| 16:08:21 | raptor | i don't know |
| 16:08:31 | watusimoto | that means no :-) |
| 16:08:39 | raptor | 2. handle the cases in our event loop |
| 16:09:18 | watusimoto | mac shortcuts are like cmd-q to quit the game? |
| 16:09:24 | raptor | correct |
| 16:09:48 | watusimoto | 1 is probably better (if the patch gets accepted into the tree), 2 is probably easier and good enough |
| 16:10:13 | raptor | SDL 1.2.15 was just released and doesn't have #1 which was proposed 6 years ago |
| 16:11:28 | watusimoto | #2 |
| 16:12:06 | watusimoto | unless you can get your patch as the resolution to #1 |
| 16:18:58 | raptor | i gues it's time to ask the mailing list |
| 16:21:23 | watusimoto | I'm a little disappointed with sdl, to be honest |
| 16:21:31 | watusimoto | I feel like they should be more advanced than they are |
| 16:21:37 | raptor | yeah... me too |
| 16:21:44 | raptor | sdl 2.0 is closing in... |
| 16:21:55 | watusimoto | I mean they're definitely more advanced than glut in some ways |
| 16:21:59 | raptor | i think they've spent like 5 years on it... |
| 16:22:03 | watusimoto | wow |
| 16:22:13 | watusimoto | will it address any of our sdl issues? |
| 16:22:29 | watusimoto | or just break everything |
| 16:23:54 | raptor | breaks a little - it's meant to be able to be installed in parallel with 1.2, not replace it |
| 16:23:59 | raptor | but they have a migration guide |
| 16:24:09 | raptor | also muuuch better window management for all platforms |
| 16:24:20 | watusimoto | not too worried about migrating |
| 16:24:27 | watusimoto | actually, lookng forward to it |
| 16:25:05 | raptor | see here: http://wiki.libsdl.org/moin.cgi/Roadmap |
| 16:34:19 | watusimoto | looks like 2.0 will have clipboard support, which I really want for the editor |
| 16:34:20 | watusimoto | http://wiki.libsdl.org/moin.cgi/CategoryClipboard |
| 16:34:34 | raptor | yeah, that will be neat |
| 16:35:38 | watusimoto | looks like they've got a ways to go yet |
| 16:36:12 | watusimoto | when you say 2.0 is designed to work alongside 1.x, what do you mean -- we could use both? |
| 16:36:17 | raptor | yes |
| 16:36:26 | raptor | both can be deployed on the same system |
| 16:36:37 | watusimoto | but not the same app |
| 16:36:51 | raptor | probably not |
| 16:36:56 | raptor | well |
| 16:37:10 | raptor | only one when linking |
| 16:37:26 | raptor | we could support both in our code with a few ifdefs, i think... |
| 16:37:35 | watusimoto | so we can't use the partial version of 2.0 to get clipboard access while using 1.x for drawing, for example |
| 16:37:47 | watusimoto | that would be too much to hope for :-) |
| 16:38:04 | raptor | well we compile our own libraries for windows and mac - so we could... |
| 16:38:31 | raptor | but for linux, we'd have to statically link from our own SDL sources |
| 16:39:12 | watusimoto | from 1.3: The keyboard can be treated as a 101-button gamepad |
| 16:39:20 | watusimoto | that will be nice, I think |
| 16:39:21 | raptor | haha |
| 16:40:02 | watusimoto | In 1.3, your friend can walk up and plug in his controller, and your game will be able to announce "a new challenger approaches!" |
| 16:40:43 | watusimoto | also for 1.3: A basic API to read/write from the system clipboard would be nice. |
| 16:40:49 | watusimoto | sounds uncertain |
| 16:41:14 | watusimoto | my favorite 1.3 feature: Probably other stuff! |
| 16:41:54 | raptor | yeah, they're debating a lot of features on the mailing list - whether to include them in the base SDL or one of the satellite libs - like a 2D abstraction layer |
| 16:42:01 | raptor | sorry 3D |
| 16:42:07 | watusimoto | any clue when 1.3 will be released? |
| 16:42:09 | raptor | so you don't have to know openGL much.. |
| 16:42:41 | raptor | 1.3 was just changed to 2.0, and the two head developers on the mailing list keep hinting that they're close - but no date |
| 16:42:51 | watusimoto | ah |
| 16:42:52 | raptor | (otherwise it wouldn't be a free open source project) |
| 16:42:53 | watusimoto | I see |
| 16:42:57 | watusimoto | :-) |
| 16:43:28 | watusimoto | one advantage of sdl over glut is sdl is still being developed |
| 16:43:53 | raptor | yep |
| 16:43:55 | raptor | if slowly.. |
| 16:44:06 | watusimoto | added clarification of the bug you found confusing on the wiki |
| 16:45:03 | | Watusimoto_ has joined |
| 16:45:30 | raptor | oh good |
| 16:45:44 | raptor | !bugs |
| 16:45:44 | BFLogBot | To enter a bug, please make sure it is reproducible and then go to http://code.google.com/p/bitfighter/issues/list | Also, see current running bug list: http://bitfighter.org/wiki/index.php/Running_Bug_List |
| 17:09:38 | raptor | i don't want to become a mac developer |
| 17:09:42 | raptor | my brain is already full |
| 17:18:59 | | Watusimoto_ Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 17:29:32 | watusimoto | I hear ya |
| 17:29:35 | watusimoto | heading home |
| 17:29:40 | raptor | later |
| 17:34:28 | | watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 17:56:34 | karamazovapy | wow...lots of chat I missed! |
| 18:04:55 | raptor | hi |
| 18:08:46 | karamazovapy | hey - were privileges for /addbot changed in 016? |
| 18:10:12 | raptor | i think they've always required levelchange no? |
| 18:10:18 | raptor | unless you do voting? |
| 18:10:20 | raptor | sam686? |
| 18:10:28 | raptor | (in other words, i'm not sure..) |
| 18:10:55 | karamazovapy | well people have been able to add bots freely on sam's branch, but I had a more or less public levelchangepass, so I was hoping they'd become an admin or mid-tier permission |
| 18:11:06 | karamazovapy | http://bitfighter.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=784 |
| 18:11:38 | karamazovapy | maybe I'll close that thread since we added a maxbots line to the .ini |
| 18:12:40 | karamazovapy | I think /setscore and /settime should be elevated, too |
| 18:13:06 | karamazovapy | then again...if people are going to screw around, I guess they'll just change the level |
| 18:13:33 | karamazovapy | oh well |
| 18:14:00 | raptor | yeah... |
| 18:14:24 | raptor | i guess the idea is levelchange password allows someone to manipulate aspects of the level - admin for server/users |
| 18:14:56 | raptor | not sure where bots fit.. |
| 18:15:18 | karamazovapy | don't you have to actually enter a blank password first now, anyway? |
| 18:15:33 | karamazovapy | I kind of lost track |
| 18:15:51 | raptor | for admin? |
| 18:16:02 | raptor | if no admin password is specified, then no one can be admin |
| 18:16:08 | karamazovapy | sorry - two streams of thought |
| 18:16:20 | karamazovapy | I was thinking about how the New Levels server doesn't have a levelchangepassword |
| 18:16:38 | karamazovapy | but since you just "enter a password" now, instead of picking levelchange or admin |
| 18:16:42 | raptor | oh really? then anyone should be able to change... if not, it's probably a bug |
| 18:17:19 | karamazovapy | well when they were separate, the no-password-blank-password just defaulted the option in the menu, but I'm not sure how "enter a password" has affected that |
| 18:18:01 | raptor | so they have been combined - if you enter a password, then server-side it checks against both level and admin ones and gives you appropriate access |
| 18:18:40 | raptor | but i'm pretty sure that watusimoto says correct behavior for no level password is to allow everyone have levelchange access |
| 18:20:23 | karamazovapy | I think that's the idea, but I'm not sure if you still have to attempt a password |
| 18:20:38 | raptor | it's probably a bug.. |
| 18:21:17 | karamazovapy | I don't even know if you have to try, though...we don't have many servers up to test with |
| 18:26:24 | raptor | i like your new soccer level |
| 18:26:34 | raptor | i think it plays really well with the soccer changes in 016 |
| 18:27:16 | karamazovapy | glad it works - I think a couple curves are mandatory in a good soccer level |
| 18:27:22 | raptor | yes |
| 18:28:38 | raptor | speaking of armor (if you can't tell, i'm following your forum posts..) as of last night no one had noticed that bouncers are more effective against it.. |
| 18:29:38 | raptor | 6 close topics! yay! |
| 18:30:52 | karamazovapy | now that we have a few necromancers roaming the forums, I'm locking some old ones |
| 18:31:19 | raptor | haha, i was thinking the same thing... gotta keep CleverBot from opening old wounds |
| 18:43:29 | karamazovapy | Off-Topic is like Agent Smith in The Matrix...it's a phenomenon that has grown beyond our control |
| 18:48:07 | raptor | i'm glad it isn't indexed |
| 18:48:14 | raptor | (or showing up in my list..) |
| 18:48:22 | raptor | i consider it a sandbox |
| 18:48:34 | raptor | that could be cleaned out at any time... |
| 18:57:47 | antoszka | raptor: No, actually the problem was that the build system does not correctly update object files when you build dedicated and non-dedicated one after the other without make clean. |
| 18:57:59 | antoszka | raptor: Building the two builds in separate trees fixes the problem. |
| 18:58:19 | antoszka | (this would require fixing up the Makefiles a little, which I'm not very good at) |
| 18:59:33 | raptor | antoszka: ah yes, you're right - making the client and dedicated on the same tree don't work |
| 18:59:52 | raptor | you can add '-B' to be safe when compiling: make -B dedicated |
| 19:13:19 | antoszka | Thx. |
| 19:20:03 | | Watusimoto has joined |
| 19:20:38 | Watusimoto | hi |
| 19:20:48 | raptor | i patched SDL |
| 19:20:53 | Watusimoto | what? |
| 19:20:57 | raptor | works great - all shortcuts work now |
| 19:20:57 | Watusimoto | really? |
| 19:21:01 | Watusimoto | fantastic |
| 19:21:02 | raptor | for Mac |
| 19:21:10 | Watusimoto | are you giong to submit your patch to sdl? |
| 19:21:37 | raptor | i think so - i actaully sent a PM to this guy here: http://www.idevgames.com/forums/thread-263-post-64439.html#pid64439 |
| 19:21:58 | raptor | becasue he said he had a simple fix - within 2 hours, he replied with the code in the same topic |
| 19:22:02 | raptor | :0 |
| 19:22:06 | raptor | :) |
| 19:22:19 | Watusimoto | great |
| 19:22:28 | Watusimoto | well, that sounds like a happy resolution |
| 19:22:38 | Watusimoto | I was going to propose just letting it go |
| 19:22:45 | raptor | yes, and i didn't need to learn obj-c |
| 19:22:51 | raptor | which was my aim |
| 19:22:56 | Watusimoto | perfect |
| 19:23:14 | raptor | i'm about to commit a library change with the patch to the repo... |
| 19:23:34 | Watusimoto | ugh still have 173 errors |
| 19:23:44 | Watusimoto | hate cleaning up yesterday's mess |
| 19:30:30 | antoszka | Out of curiosity – is bitfighter a direct descendant of Zap's codebase? A fork? Something different? |
| 19:30:47 | antoszka | (I didn't see any mention of Zap itself on the website.) |
| 19:31:16 | raptor | i think Watusimoto made a short history here: http://bitfighter.org/wiki/index.php/History_of_Bitfighter |
| 19:31:30 | antoszka | Aha. |
| 19:31:35 | Watusimoto | hi antoszka |
| 19:31:43 | raptor | i joined on only a little over a year ago.. |
| 19:31:46 | Watusimoto | yes, it is a fork fo the zap codebase |
| 19:32:06 | Watusimoto | if you can call a project descended from a dead code base a fork |
| 19:33:28 | antoszka | Watusimoto: So was the old codebase release into the public domain or under some other license? |
| 19:33:34 | antoszka | released* |
| 19:33:43 | Watusimoto | uh, raptor, I don;t think I wrote that history |
| 19:33:49 | raptor | oh.. |
| 19:34:06 | Watusimoto | the codebase was released under GPL 2 license |
| 19:34:07 | raptor | nevermind then |
| 19:34:25 | Watusimoto | It's a bit too effusive for me |
| 19:34:36 | raptor | yeah, doesn't look like your writing.. |
| 19:34:51 | raptor | ha! sky_lark |
| 19:34:58 | Watusimoto | yes, that sounds about right |
| 19:35:47 | antoszka | It's cool the game got back into life – Zap was one of the best games of that type I've ever played. |
| 19:35:55 | antoszka | And I was really worried the project would die. |
| 19:36:09 | Watusimoto | it did die |
| 19:36:43 | Watusimoto | luckily, I happened upon it as I was looking for a network library to recreate the old Unix game xtank |
| 19:37:29 | Watusimoto | zap was released as a demo of the TNL networking lib |
| 19:37:54 | Watusimoto | I tried it, and it had most of the elements of xtank that I wanted to recreate |
| 19:37:59 | raptor | and now, far from being dead, it is sucking my life away... :) |
| 19:38:06 | Watusimoto | so I decided to build off the zap codebase |
| 19:38:14 | Watusimoto | ah yes, that |
| 19:42:10 | | BFLogBot - Commit 317a37b34a80 | Author: buckyballreaction | Log: Mac SDL changes: - update to SDL 1.2.15 (with new SDLMain.m as well as Lion fixes) - add in patch to allow Mac shortcuts to work |
| 19:42:27 | raptor | yay, i can cross off another bug off of that list |
| 19:45:56 | Watusimoto | fantastic! |
| 19:47:45 | antoszka | I noticed a bug (probably). I'm running a tiling window manager (dwm, namely), when I launch zap (excuse using the old name, it's shorter) it runs extremely slow (like 1~0,5fps) almost everytime I launch it. |
| 19:48:05 | antoszka | Setting the window manager into the floating regime seems to fix the problem. |
| 19:48:18 | antoszka | I never noticed that behaviour with old Zap. |
| 19:48:27 | raptor | we just migrated to SDL from GLUT |
| 19:48:39 | raptor | so there are likely window manager bugs lurking around |
| 19:49:19 | antoszka | I can try stracing the binary, when it's running slow to see if there some call unnecessarily/repeatedly hogging the CPU. |
| 19:49:21 | raptor | i am actually unfamiliar with that window manager; could you explain what you mean by 'floating regime' ? |
| 19:49:38 | raptor | also what OS/arch/version are you running? |
| 19:49:50 | antoszka | raptor: it basically stops managing windows and acts like, say, twm. |
| 19:50:06 | antoszka | Just draws the frame, no resizing/placing etc. |
| 19:50:14 | raptor | i like twm |
| 19:50:16 | raptor | :) |
| 19:50:25 | antoszka | Linux-3.2.4/x64/Gentoo. |
| 19:51:01 | antoszka | sdl-1.12.14, sdl-gfx-2.0.23 |
| 19:51:48 | antoszka | twm is great (IMO one of the wm-s in the dumb-wm convention) |
| 19:51:54 | antoszka | s/the/the best/ |
| 19:53:42 | antoszka | raptor: When in the tiling regime it acts more or less like ratpoison, if you know that one. |
| 19:55:47 | raptor | never got ratpoison to compile.. :) |
| 19:56:03 | raptor | we don't use sdl-gfx (yet) |
| 19:57:39 | raptor | oh |
| 19:58:03 | raptor | antoszka: there is a bug in SDL - when maximizing windows in linux, it seems to spike the CPU |
| 19:58:10 | raptor | this may be your problem... |
| 19:59:21 | raptor | sdl 1.2.15 was released.. i havene't tested it yet to see if the bug was fixed |
| 20:00:22 | antoszka | I can update to 1.2.15 to test if the problem persists. |
| 20:02:16 | raptor | i tracked down the bug with sam686 once... i think he even had a patch for it... let me see if i can find it again |
| 20:05:20 | raptor | if you're a gentoo user, then you have no problems with compiling :) |
| 20:05:30 | antoszka | No, not at all. |
| 20:06:00 | raptor | i've heard stories of gentoo users trying to compile KDE and having to put their laptops in the refrigerator... |
| 20:06:03 | Watusimoto | I had a small gentoo box once, took 3-4 days to compile everything anytime I updated the system |
| 20:07:13 | antoszka | hehe |
| 20:23:29 | | sam686 Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 20:24:08 | | sam686 has joined |
| 20:24:08 | | ChanServ sets mode +v sam686 |
| 20:26:28 | raptor | looks like we didn't make a patch, but we found out that SDL sends the SDL_RESIZE event non-stop when you maximize |
| 20:29:31 | Watusimoto | yikes |
| 20:29:39 | raptor | in linux |
| 20:29:51 | raptor | so maximizing in linux will spike a CPu |
| 20:36:07 | antoszka | What was the way to take over unclaimed cannons? |
| 20:36:10 | antoszka | (and gates?) |
| 20:36:21 | raptor | use repair module |
| 20:36:32 | antoszka | Bound to what key by default? |
| 20:36:45 | antoszka | ah, nvm, |
| 20:36:47 | antoszka | I can see. |
| 20:36:48 | raptor | press 'z' to select loadout |
| 20:36:51 | raptor | ok |
| 20:45:40 | raptor | we have a Polish server! |
| 20:45:43 | raptor | great! |
| 20:46:14 | Watusimoto | is is cold here |
| 20:46:15 | Watusimoto | http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/07/european-cold-snap-freeze_n_1258329.html |
| 20:46:32 | raptor | wow |
| 20:46:46 | Watusimoto | cold enough to build gentoo, I'd say |
| 20:46:50 | raptor | haha |
| 20:49:50 | Watusimoto | whoa, that server has an awesome ping for me! 70! |
| 21:00:45 | antoszka | Watusimoto: Whereabouts are you? |
| 21:01:04 | antoszka | Luxembourg? |
| 21:01:17 | Watusimoto | indeed I am |
| 21:01:25 | Watusimoto | and yourself? Poland? |
| 21:03:24 | antoszka | Yep. |
| 21:03:41 | Watusimoto | pretty cold! |
| 21:04:02 | antoszka | It was actually fine, whe the humidity was low. |
| 21:04:21 | antoszka | Now it's a bit warmer (around -10°C), but much more humid and it feels much worse. |
| 21:04:22 | Watusimoto | I grew up with this, but it has been a while since I've really had a spell like this |
| 21:04:47 | Watusimoto | still dry here, though it's snowing now, so maybe it's a sign of warmer more humid air moving in |
| 21:05:00 | antoszka | Might be. |
| 21:05:24 | Watusimoto | heat your house by building gentoo? :-) |
| 21:05:55 | antoszka | Actually most machines are Debians in my house. |
| 21:06:21 | antoszka | 4 Debians, one Ubuntu, around two Androids and one Gentoo. |
| 21:07:15 | antoszka | Gentoo is boring when you have a slowish machine, but it's very manageable and you always the right headers around. |
| 21:07:19 | antoszka | Which is plus. |
| 21:07:38 | antoszka | (All the tuning/performance lore around gentoo is obvious bullshit.) |
| 21:07:46 | antoszka | s/plus/a plus/ |
| 21:08:14 | antoszka | s/always/always have/ |
| 21:08:22 | antoszka | Geez, my English has frozen up. |
| 21:09:14 | Watusimoto | we're not sticklers for grammar here |
| 21:09:23 | Watusimoto | ugh, this is a horrible line: |
| 21:09:25 | Watusimoto | getGame()->getSettings()->getInputCodeManager()->getBinding(InputCodeManager::BINDING_LOADOUT, getGame()->getSettings()->getIniSettings()->inputMode); |
| 21:09:38 | antoszka | I hate looking at my own lines with stupid mistakes in them. |
| 21:09:59 | raptor | looks great! |
| 21:10:34 | Watusimoto | that's the problem with cleaning out the global namespace... |
| 21:10:44 | raptor | yep |
| 21:10:48 | Watusimoto | suddenly things are... not in the global namespace |
| 21:11:01 | raptor | why did we want to clean it out? |
| 21:11:06 | raptor | i can't remember |
| 21:11:34 | raptor | we can still use other non-global static namespaces (are these not as clean?) |
| 21:11:47 | raptor | I think i use Joystick:: in loads of places |
| 21:11:54 | Watusimoto | we do |
| 21:11:58 | raptor | instead of getJoystick() |
| 21:12:06 | Watusimoto | I need a pithier name than InputCodeManager |
| 21:12:19 | raptor | ICM |
| 21:12:27 | Watusimoto | sounds like a missle |
| 21:12:37 | Watusimoto | missile |
| 21:12:53 | Watusimoto | antoszka's spelling angst is contagious |
| 21:13:07 | antoszka | Heh… |
| 21:16:39 | raptor | i can't imagine the work required to localize our game... |
| 21:17:44 | Watusimoto | I think it's mostly not necessary |
| 21:17:53 | Watusimoto | there's not really much critical text in the game |
| 21:18:14 | Watusimoto | at least that's always been my position |
| 21:18:55 | raptor | yeah - i always that it was about being friendly |
| 21:19:08 | raptor | more than need... |
| 21:19:08 | Watusimoto | antoszka: do you have any unusual (and by that I mean non-American, non-German, non-UK) keyboards? |
| 21:19:16 | Watusimoto | raptor: that's a good point |
| 21:19:46 | antoszka | Watusimoto: I'm running a self-patched version of the standard Polish X11 keymap (which is mostly based on US+dead-keys). |
| 21:20:15 | Watusimoto | I ask because since we ported to SDL, I am trying to get support for as many different keyboards as posisble. |
| 21:20:18 | antoszka | Watusimoto: I added proper „typographer” «quotes», …, λ, n–dash and some other small fixes. |
| 21:20:26 | Watusimoto | interesting |
| 21:20:38 | antoszka | But I don't think it matters. |
| 21:20:41 | raptor | we need to extend our font... |
| 21:20:49 | antoszka | The basic layout is basically identical to US. |
| 21:22:03 | Watusimoto | when you get a chance, would you run bitfighter, go to the diagnostics screen (F7), and try all your keys? Look at the Keys Down display and tell me if anything that doesn;t look like a standard American sounding key shows up |
| 21:22:21 | antoszka | OK. |
| 21:22:28 | raptor | hooray we have a tester! |
| 21:22:34 | Watusimoto | I'm thinking maybe something like KEY_WORLD_XX or something |
| 21:23:09 | Watusimoto | SDL has support for all sorts of keys, but even with my swiss keyboard, it only detected 'standard' keys |
| 21:23:36 | Watusimoto | raptor: we're very limited by our font |
| 21:23:40 | raptor | we may have to change to a bitmap font... |
| 21:23:54 | raptor | because i'm not finding any stroke fonts in the international space... |
| 21:24:07 | Watusimoto | you're probably not finding many stroke fonts at all |
| 21:24:20 | Watusimoto | I know of 2: ours, and the one in gridwars |
| 21:24:25 | raptor | yes - only the ones we stole from freeGLUT |
| 21:24:48 | Watusimoto | down to 81 errors |
| 21:33:54 | Watusimoto | one consequence of this work is each client game can have it's own bindings |
| 21:34:21 | Watusimoto | not immediately useful, but if sam ever works out multi-player mode, it might be useful |
| 21:34:55 | antoszka | *no* to a bitmap font :) |
| 21:35:16 | antoszka | It would badly impact the game's wonderful vectory character. |
| 21:35:22 | Watusimoto | you probably don;t need to worry too much |
| 21:35:34 | Watusimoto | we do use a bitmap font in the console |
| 21:35:52 | Watusimoto | but the vector nature of the game is very important |
| 21:36:05 | raptor | i'm an currently searching for how to convert a bitmap/ttf font to stroke... then we can make our own :) |
| 21:36:08 | Watusimoto | there's no other excuse for our crappy graphics! |
| 21:36:32 | Watusimoto | It would be cool to get checkbook as a vector font |
| 21:36:53 | Watusimoto | I still remember the work I did to render the game logo |
| 21:37:18 | Watusimoto | an incredible tool chain involving spreadsheets, gis digitizing software, and photoshop |
| 21:37:38 | raptor | wow |
| 21:37:43 | Watusimoto | won't be doing that again |
| 21:38:06 | raptor | somebody somewhere had to have written the algo... i can't believe they did all that work by hand for the current stroke font |
| 21:38:09 | Watusimoto | I think there was a sed script in there too, to clean things up |
| 21:38:22 | Watusimoto | for one font? easier to do by hand |
| 21:38:35 | Watusimoto | you could do it in a day |
| 21:38:42 | raptor | but freeGLUT has a few |
| 21:38:52 | Watusimoto | also, old plotters used to all use stroke fonts |
| 21:39:07 | Watusimoto | maybe trawl through the autocad forums :-) |
| 21:39:17 | raptor | so it could be years of manual work that has added to our font? |
| 21:42:36 | | BlackBird has joined |
| 21:42:50 | karamazovapy | I might be able to convert a bitmap/ttf into something vector-ish if you tell me what you need |
| 21:43:01 | karamazovapy | since I'm an evil genius about that sort of thing |
| 21:43:16 | BlackBird | are you talking to me? |
| 21:43:27 | karamazovapy | no, I am decidedly not. |
| 21:43:31 | raptor | karamazovapy: really? |
| 21:43:58 | karamazovapy | if somebody can show me the format for stroke fonts, I could probably hack it out |
| 21:44:20 | karamazovapy | my mapmaking system allows me several output options, one of which is probably in the ballpark |
| 21:44:25 | raptor | karamazovapy: here is our font: http://code.google.com/p/bitfighter/source/browse/zap/freeglut_stroke_roman.h |
| 21:44:29 | BlackBird | do you think that my color cube idea will be implemented since it has no opposition and is super easy to code? |
| 21:44:48 | karamazovapy | I wouldn't say it has no opposition, people just haven't bothered to post about it |
| 21:44:59 | raptor | karamazovapy: forewarning - i haven't figured the code piece out yet... |
| 21:45:15 | BlackBird | i would really like to know what people think about it |
| 21:45:34 | antoszka | Wouldn't it be better to just extend the existing font? |
| 21:45:36 | raptor | also karamazovapy a definition of each character: http://code.google.com/p/bitfighter/source/browse/zap/freeglut_stroke.h |
| 21:45:40 | raptor | antoszka: yes |
| 21:45:43 | karamazovapy | antoszka - yeah. |
| 21:45:50 | antoszka | Which is nice, has a certain character and is only perhaps missing a few glyphs? |
| 21:46:01 | antoszka | I feel it's always been a part of the game. |
| 21:46:08 | raptor | now we need a set of glyphs... |
| 21:46:08 | karamazovapy | well we changed the 016 font from what came before it |
| 21:46:49 | karamazovapy | BlackBird - we don't really have a precedent for adding purely decorative things to the game |
| 21:46:54 | sam686 | well, on 016, only a few letters of a font have changes.. |
| 21:46:58 | sam686 | from 015 |
| 21:47:07 | karamazovapy | to a point, we've kind of followed in zap's "all action, no distraction" mantra |
| 21:48:20 | karamazovapy | one counterargument is also that adding non-functional zones could be confusing and make functional zones less obvious |
| 21:48:37 | BlackBird | eh |
| 21:48:42 | BlackBird | i wouldn't say that |
| 21:48:55 | Watusimoto | karamazovapy: what do you mean by mapmaking system? |
| 21:49:00 | karamazovapy | I think it's a fair argument whether you would say that or not |
| 21:49:20 | karamazovapy | what I used to produce Son of Airlock and some others |
| 21:49:36 | karamazovapy | the edwardian script in that old kServ Welcome map |
| 21:49:46 | raptor | we could change the zone text to be 'Gratuitous Decoration' instead of LOAD-OUT |
| 21:49:57 | karamazovapy | lol |
| 21:49:59 | Watusimoto | ah, I see. not map making in the sense of making maps |
| 21:50:13 | BlackBird | but i see a lot of level makers using goals and walls intended for use other than being used for walls |
| 21:50:16 | karamazovapy | right...converting graphics to level code |
| 21:50:26 | sam686 | or... we could use a bitmap font instead of lines and stroke font |
| 21:50:38 | karamazovapy | I see a handful of people who have tried to draw with zones for no real reason |
| 21:50:43 | Watusimoto | I would love to add some japanese characters for ambience |
| 21:52:06 | BlackBird | i have a question |
| 21:52:20 | BlackBird | why do we have a curve.gen? |
| 21:52:41 | Watusimoto | well, google translate has a ways to go |
| 21:52:43 | Watusimoto | http://translate.google.com/?tl=ja&q=undefined#auto|ja|bitfighter |
| 21:52:44 | BlackBird | whats the purpose in having a tool to curve and smooth out walls and other things? |
| 21:52:47 | raptor | i font some old stroke fonts: http://www.ghostscript.com/doc/current/Hershey.htm |
| 21:52:49 | Watusimoto | play the japanese audio |
| 21:53:12 | raptor | wow |
| 21:53:18 | raptor | is that spelled out? |
| 21:53:21 | Watusimoto | I think so |
| 21:53:46 | Watusimoto | should be "bi-tu-fi-te-ru" or something similar |
| 21:53:58 | karamazovapy | curves can really change gameplay for soccer levels |
| 21:54:05 | raptor | oooo: http://www.cowlark.com/hershtrans/ |
| 21:54:32 | BlackBird | other than soccer levels (and roller coasters) whats the point in having it? |
| 21:55:13 | karamazovapy | curved barriers allow you to smoothly redirect ships, bursts, testitems, resourceitems... |
| 21:55:37 | BlackBird | but why would a ship be glued to the wall? |
| 21:55:48 | karamazovapy | who said anything about glue? |
| 21:56:16 | BlackBird | why would a ship be up against a wall? |
| 21:56:24 | Watusimoto | bi戦士 |
| 21:56:28 | karamazovapy | you never run into walls? |
| 21:56:32 | Watusimoto | mmmm... not satisfying |
| 21:56:47 | karamazovapy | or get thrown against them by bursts or speedzones? |
| 21:57:00 | BlackBird | what I'm trying to say is that the curve.gen makes levels more appealing |
| 21:57:04 | raptor | i'm on old CAD pages now |
| 21:57:10 | BlackBird | visually |
| 21:57:12 | karamazovapy | yes, but scripting isn't purely ornamental, and neither are barriers |
| 21:57:27 | karamazovapy | and neither are curves |
| 21:57:30 | BlackBird | did i say it was? |
| 21:57:46 | karamazovapy | I'm suggesting that it's not an even parallel to purely ornamental zones |
| 21:58:46 | Watusimoto | raptor: before you get too excited http://paulbourke.net/dataformats/hershey/ |
| 21:59:23 | BlackBird | i have another question |
| 21:59:29 | raptor | that's another link to the hershey font |
| 21:59:32 | Watusimoto | well, didn't scroll down far enough -- there's lots of special cars |
| 21:59:34 | BlackBird | why shouldn't it be implemented? |
| 21:59:47 | karamazovapy | neat - music characters! |
| 21:59:48 | raptor | so we need to convert that to our GL format |
| 22:00:19 | karamazovapy | I gave you a valid counterargument - that we're not generally in the habit of adding purely ornamental features |
| 22:00:25 | raptor | it's already stroked great! |
| 22:00:56 | BlackBird | i know some people don't like adding extra "distractions" to a level, but a lot of us would |
| 22:01:26 | karamazovapy | we're not talking about individual levels, though, we're talking about principles of game design |
| 22:01:41 | karamazovapy | I'm not saying it'll never happen, I'm just explaining why it hasn't |
| 22:01:59 | BlackBird | you were? |
| 22:02:13 | BlackBird | oh |
| 22:02:32 | karamazovapy | yeah, and why there's no push or drive among the developers to do it at the moment |
| 22:02:43 | Watusimoto | read the 2nd bullet in free fonts section: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostscript |
| 22:02:56 | BlackBird | cyabai |
| 22:02:59 | | BlackBird Quit (Quit: Page closed) |
| 22:03:14 | karamazovapy | where's the citation for that...? |
| 22:03:32 | Watusimoto | for what? |
| 22:03:50 | karamazovapy | the second bullet...6789? |
| 22:03:53 | Watusimoto | for the wiki comment? |
| 22:03:56 | Watusimoto | who knows |
| 22:04:32 | karamazovapy | http://www.ghostscript.com/doc/current/Fonts.htm ? |
| 22:06:30 | raptor | hahaha: read the license: sol.gfxile.net/hershey/hershey.cpp |
| 22:06:34 | raptor | http://sol.gfxile.net/hershey/hershey.cpp |
| 22:07:03 | karamazovapy | hah! |
| 22:07:33 | Watusimoto | came across that for the first time yesterday |
| 22:08:01 | Watusimoto | the wtfpl |
| 22:08:27 | raptor | When free means completely free! |
| 22:09:21 | Watusimoto | completely f'n free |
| 22:36:33 | raptor | good page with everything already converted: http://sol.gfxile.net/hershey/fontprev.html |
| 22:36:53 | raptor | but only to opengl vertex data - maybe a bit different than what GLUT uses |
| 22:37:05 | karamazovapy | neat |
| 22:37:48 | raptor | and we'll have to somehow map each character to the proper one in the unicode character set... |
| 22:38:33 | raptor | oh look, music character |
| 22:38:35 | karamazovapy | I like the treble clef in music |
| 22:39:06 | karamazovapy | symbolic has some fun stuff |
| 22:39:29 | raptor | wingdings is the future! |
| 22:44:21 | raptor | i think our work has been done for us: http://gameprogrammer.com/polyfonts/polyfonts.html |
| 22:44:50 | karamazovapy | the internet is a wonderful thing |
| 22:45:44 | karamazovapy | I like this part of his license: |
| 22:45:45 | karamazovapy | No donation is too small! Music and artwork are good too. |
| 22:45:45 | karamazovapy | If you have some CD's you're not listening to anymore, send 'em along! |
| 22:45:56 | raptor | hehe |
| 22:46:26 | Watusimoto | donna summers, here you go! |
| 23:09:32 | raptor | we could rip out our entire FreeGLUT font system and use PolyFonts instead |
| 23:12:53 | Watusimoto | is there really a benefit? most of those fonts look more or less the same |
| 23:13:04 | Watusimoto | and I'm not sure we want to go font-wild |
| 23:13:30 | raptor | the benefit is to not have to convert our new character into GLUT font format |
| 23:18:54 | | LordDVG Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 23:26:06 | raptor | ah, finally guessed the password on 'New Levels' |
| 23:26:27 | raptor | duh |