#bitfighter IRC Log

IRC Log for 2012-11-16

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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04:33:01 raptor hello!
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15:37:42 raptor good morning!
16:45:52 kodaws hello!
16:46:53 raptor hi
16:48:28 Watusimoto_ has joined
16:55:49 watusimoto hi
17:01:11 raptor hi
17:03:48 watusimoto I fell asleep on the couch last night... I feel amazingly good today!
17:04:10 raptor haha
17:04:16 raptor great!
17:16:20 raptor ok, s
17:16:21 raptor so
17:17:11 raptor for updating a projects user resources
17:17:27 raptor if an udpate is detected, then overwrite all resources
17:17:35 kodaws Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
17:17:50 raptor and should be done in code, like koda has done for Mac
17:18:03 raptor is that where we're going?
17:28:44 raptor Directory.mm is scary
17:44:21 watusimoto if that is really easier to maintain, then that's where we should go
17:44:37 watusimoto I can't believe it wouldn't be easier to do that in a script
17:44:47 watusimoto but easy is what we want
17:45:16 raptor it is somewhat easy in a script...  but it needs to be down for *each* platform's script
17:45:27 watusimoto only for Linux
17:45:30 watusimoto no?
17:45:39 raptor well, that's because:
17:45:48 raptor 1.  we don't handle multi-user on windows
17:45:58 raptor 2. mac used to have a script, too, but koda put it in code
17:46:04 watusimoto (1. and we don't really care)
17:46:07 watusimoto :-)
17:46:10 raptor heh
17:46:18 watusimoto so 2. is a non issue
17:46:41 raptor except that it is still maintained in two places  mac: in code;  linux:  in script
17:46:51 watusimoto but can they ever be merged?
17:46:59 watusimoto and if we added windows, could that be merged?
17:47:09 raptor yes, that's were i'm going
17:47:15 watusimoto I think no matter what we end up with multiple scripts
17:47:36 raptor what would be ideal (I believe) is if we handle things like copy/remove resources in code, but abstract the file operations to each platform
17:47:46 watusimoto but if you think you can bring them all together, then let's do that.
17:47:55 watusimoto it's just iterating and copying
17:48:01 raptor so, like koda did for mac, we'd have an checkForUpdate method that could launch an updater
17:48:10 raptor and we'd have a copy resources method
17:48:11 watusimoto we alreadh have that
17:48:18 watusimoto (the first one)
17:48:22 raptor yes
17:48:31 watusimoto we don't have a copy resources method
17:48:37 watusimoto maybe that would be easy
17:48:41 raptor the resource update method could just call each platform file operations
17:48:48 watusimoto mkdir -> iterate { copy } etc.
17:48:52 raptor yes
17:49:15 raptor and from our point of view, when we'd have to change resources, we just make one call in the code and it works for all platforms
17:49:23 watusimoto hell, deleting the music file was the same for all platforms.  maybe copying is too
17:49:28 raptor as long as we are doing operations to game-specific directories
17:49:40 raptor yes!
17:50:00 watusimoto sure, give it a shot.  it's very straightforward... I think
17:50:17 raptor but this way, i won't have to maintain the Linux script; and we can pull out some of the confusing stuff from koda's class into c++
17:50:38 watusimoto why is his script so complex?
17:50:48 raptor it's obj-c++
17:50:56 watusimoto ok
17:50:57 watusimoto boo
17:51:20 raptor not really complex, but there are some mac-specific things in there like the 'system wide application specific associated xml files'
17:51:24 raptor (registry)
17:51:48 watusimoto we don't need to deal with that on linux or windows
17:52:01 raptor exactly
17:52:11 watusimoto so we could even leave the mac stuff as is
17:52:37 raptor so we can abstract a little of the specific stuff, like checkAndlaunchUpdater() -> would call bfup on windows, sparkle on mac
17:52:51 watusimoto yes
17:53:27 raptor i'm still trying to figure out the process flow:  game starts, then...
17:53:50 watusimoto game starts --> checks for updates
17:53:53 raptor we have:  load INI, update INI, check/run updater, update resources
17:54:06 watusimoto we need a whiteboard
17:54:21 watusimoto though I am leaving soon, so can't get too deep into this now
17:54:26 watusimoto can do so later though
17:54:33 raptor that's ok, just wanted to bring it up briefly
17:54:48 watusimoto you have my agreement, if that's what you wanted
17:55:49 raptor ok
17:56:05 raptor then next i just need to work out the process flow...  but can do so later
17:56:22 watusimoto I'll be around later if you want help
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19:30:33 raptor Watusimoto: i started some notes: http://beta.etherpad.org/p/bf_update
19:35:26 Watusimoto ok, I'll check after dinner
19:35:28 Watusimoto hi bye
19:35:50 raptor mmmm  dinner
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21:01:53 Watusimoto has joined
21:02:11 Watusimoto hi
21:05:54 Watusimoto raptor: what are your feelings about the gci student?
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21:34:41 raptor hello Watusimoto
21:34:46 Watusimoto hi
21:34:47 raptor uh, seems ok
21:35:02 raptor if you want to submit a project, i'll help out when i can
21:35:07 Watusimoto you are so enthusiastic!
21:35:30 Watusimoto do you think creating parameterized constructors for Lua objects would be too hard?
21:35:58 raptor i don't think too hard..
21:36:16 raptor but you'd have to probably put up an example of what exactly you had in mind..
21:36:29 Watusimoto me neither.  I am just a tiny bit concerned about helping people get a dev environment set up
21:36:30 raptor and did we decide we wanted param-constructors?
21:36:33 Watusimoto that's always a pain
21:36:41 Watusimoto I did :-)
21:36:49 Watusimoto which is better?
21:37:13 raptor yeah, i was wondering if we'd need to give people a crash course in version control/IDE stuff...
21:37:24 Watusimoto t = TestItem.new(100,200) or t = TestItem.new; t:setPos(100, 200)?
21:37:34 Watusimoto the first I tell you!
21:37:56 raptor but that breaks the java bean convention!
21:38:02 raptor yes, i like the first
21:39:13 raptor the issue with parameterized constructors:  do we take the all-or-nothing approach?  i.e.  every settable member is put in the constructor OR empty constructor? (as options)
21:39:32 raptor or, do we just put in a whole bunch with various useful parameters
21:40:35 Watusimoto We could do t=TestItem.new(100); t:setY(200)
21:43:06 Watusimoto I think the anwwer will be different for each object; for goal zones, for example, we could have two parameterized constructors: GoalZone.new(team) and .new(team, geom)
21:43:13 Watusimoto those both seem useful
21:43:20 raptor yes
21:43:36 raptor ok
21:43:51 Watusimoto but GoalZone(geom) seems less so
21:44:10 Watusimoto though maybe my vision is limited
21:45:01 raptor i've just seen (older java mostly) classes with a dozen constructors or so
21:45:21 Watusimoto I think 1 or 2 would suffice in most cases
21:45:42 Watusimoto not every option need be availabe by a constructor either
21:45:46 raptor each one calling various others and filling out defaults
21:45:58 raptor ok
21:46:05 Watusimoto like rotating gofasts... rotation (if available at all) would probably not be accessible via a constructor
21:46:32 Watusimoto I've written a few of those constructors in my time :-)
21:46:38 Watusimoto in java I mean
21:47:08 raptor yeah..  me too...
21:47:23 Watusimoto so when you complete a task, you get a point (from gci)
21:47:33 Watusimoto how many constructors would be worth a point?
21:47:36 raptor so GCI is basically get high school students to hate tedious coding jobs?
21:47:37 Watusimoto 3? 5?
21:47:43 Watusimoto yes
21:48:01 Watusimoto though, you know, writing the task description will be more work than just doing the code
21:48:09 raptor that's like....   labor exploitation!
21:48:24 raptor they get points?
21:48:56 raptor a contructor gets 1 point + .5 point per parameter
21:48:59 raptor :)
21:49:01 raptor maybe
21:49:48 Watusimoto they get a certificate for 1 point
21:49:54 Watusimoto and a t-shirt for 3
21:50:05 raptor interesting...
21:50:13 Watusimoto so there should be some effort involved, methinks
21:50:48 raptor how much does a t-shirt cost vs how many hours of simple grunt labor would it take a teenager to acquire equivalent funds
21:50:50 Watusimoto or we could take the opposite tack, and screw google by flooding them with hundreds of students with easy points to burn
21:51:06 Watusimoto want a free t-shirt? join our project!
21:51:24 Watusimoto 8 points for playing...er... testing bitfighter!!!
21:51:32 raptor we could give a point for every 20 school computers bitfighter is installed on
21:51:39 Watusimoto yes!
21:51:52 Watusimoto or for every bitfighter sticker they put on someone's locker
21:52:02 raptor haha
21:52:27 Watusimoto 3 points for every principal's car they spray paint with Bitfighter Rulez!!!
21:52:54 Watusimoto bitfighter -- the game for vandals!
21:53:15 Watusimoto we could start the bitfighter army
21:53:35 Watusimoto hordes of marauding youth terrorizing whole towns
21:53:49 Watusimoto all in the name of collecting ever more gci points
21:54:00 Watusimoto and the best part is that google pays for it all!
21:54:34 raptor haha
21:54:52 raptor we should take our true names out of the credits...
21:55:24 Watusimoto yes
21:56:01 Watusimoto or we could claim total ignornce of what was being done in our names by the hijacked personalities of evilWatuismoto and evilRaptor
21:57:17 raptor evilRaptor!  that doppleganger must be stopped!
22:02:34 koda has joined
22:10:50 Watusimoto 11PM!!!!
22:10:52 Watusimoto wow
22:10:59 raptor yeah, i'm so sleeeepy
22:11:08 Watusimoto lets see if there are any bugs I can fix before I fall asleep
22:11:23 raptor oh, did you look at this?: http://beta.etherpad.org/p/bf_update
22:11:31 Watusimoto in fact I did not
22:11:34 Watusimoto let me do that now
22:11:43 raptor you can make changes, suggestions
22:14:04 Watusimoto Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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22:14:56 Watusimoto so how does the mac client know to copy resources?
22:15:08 raptor it uses the mac registry
22:15:25 raptor basically mac detects what version of the app you've launched and holds it
22:15:27 Watusimoto so it compares its version with the version number stored inthe
22:15:30 Watusimoto yes
22:15:30 Watusimoto ok
22:15:49 Watusimoto so it compares its version with the version number stored inthe  registry
22:15:53 raptor we could remove that need by just using the INI
22:16:11 raptor since INI = our own registry!
22:16:34 Watusimoto yes
22:16:56 Watusimoto what happens if new install?  same as upgrade?  (i.e. copy resources?)
22:17:11 raptor new install copies to system folders
22:17:28 raptor on bitfighter launch, it would detect a new install had taken place and update resources
22:18:55 Watusimoto using the update mechanism
22:19:08 Watusimoto (i.e. INI file would report current version as being 0 or something)
22:19:52 raptor yes, but internall we'd know it's 4500
22:20:00 raptor from that #define we always set...
22:21:05 Watusimoto I think your propsed chagnes look fine
22:21:19 raptor i'm open to any changes
22:21:51 Watusimoto I think it makes sense
22:23:12 raptor ok
22:23:21 raptor i'll get to work!  (sometime soon..)
22:24:38 raptor how does the windows updater work?  does it halt the game when launched?
22:26:27 Watusimoto it used to... didn;t seem to last time I tested it
22:26:47 raptor ok, well, i'll try to keep it in the same broken state
22:27:32 Watusimoto :-)
22:28:27 raptor oh blah
22:28:34 raptor circular dependency on the INI
22:28:54 raptor looks like BFUP requires an updater setting from the INI
22:29:00 raptor do we actually need that?
22:30:27 raptor maybe i'll just load teh INI first
22:38:00 Watusimoto yes, load the ini first

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04:33:01	raptor	hello!
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15:37:42	raptor	good morning!
16:45:52	kodaws	hello!
16:46:53	raptor	hi
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16:55:49	watusimoto	hi
17:01:11	raptor	hi
17:03:48	watusimoto	I fell asleep on the couch last night... I feel amazingly good today!
17:04:10	raptor	haha
17:04:16	raptor	great!
17:16:20	raptor	ok, s
17:16:21	raptor	so
17:17:11	raptor	for updating a projects user resources
17:17:27	raptor	if an udpate is detected, then overwrite all resources
17:17:35		kodaws Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
17:17:50	raptor	and should be done in code, like koda has done for Mac
17:18:03	raptor	is that where we're going?
17:28:44	raptor	Directory.mm is scary
17:44:21	watusimoto	if that is really easier to maintain, then that's where we should go
17:44:37	watusimoto	I can't believe it wouldn't be easier to do that in a script
17:44:47	watusimoto	but easy is what we want
17:45:16	raptor	it is somewhat easy in a script... but it needs to be down for each platform's script
17:45:27	watusimoto	only for Linux
17:45:30	watusimoto	no?
17:45:39	raptor	well, that's because:
17:45:48	raptor	1. we don't handle multi-user on windows
17:45:58	raptor	2. mac used to have a script, too, but koda put it in code
17:46:04	watusimoto	(1. and we don't really care)
17:46:07	watusimoto	:-)
17:46:10	raptor	heh
17:46:18	watusimoto	so 2. is a non issue
17:46:41	raptor	except that it is still maintained in two places mac: in code; linux: in script
17:46:51	watusimoto	but can they ever be merged?
17:46:59	watusimoto	and if we added windows, could that be merged?
17:47:09	raptor	yes, that's were i'm going
17:47:15	watusimoto	I think no matter what we end up with multiple scripts
17:47:36	raptor	what would be ideal (I believe) is if we handle things like copy/remove resources in code, but abstract the file operations to each platform
17:47:46	watusimoto	but if you think you can bring them all together, then let's do that.
17:47:55	watusimoto	it's just iterating and copying
17:48:01	raptor	so, like koda did for mac, we'd have an checkForUpdate method that could launch an updater
17:48:10	raptor	and we'd have a copy resources method
17:48:11	watusimoto	we alreadh have that
17:48:18	watusimoto	(the first one)
17:48:22	raptor	yes
17:48:31	watusimoto	we don't have a copy resources method
17:48:37	watusimoto	maybe that would be easy
17:48:41	raptor	the resource update method could just call each platform file operations
17:48:48	watusimoto	mkdir -> iterate { copy } etc.
17:48:52	raptor	yes
17:49:15	raptor	and from our point of view, when we'd have to change resources, we just make one call in the code and it works for all platforms
17:49:23	watusimoto	hell, deleting the music file was the same for all platforms. maybe copying is too
17:49:28	raptor	as long as we are doing operations to game-specific directories
17:49:40	raptor	yes!
17:50:00	watusimoto	sure, give it a shot. it's very straightforward... I think
17:50:17	raptor	but this way, i won't have to maintain the Linux script; and we can pull out some of the confusing stuff from koda's class into c++
17:50:38	watusimoto	why is his script so complex?
17:50:48	raptor	it's obj-c++
17:50:56	watusimoto	ok
17:50:57	watusimoto	boo
17:51:20	raptor	not really complex, but there are some mac-specific things in there like the 'system wide application specific associated xml files'
17:51:24	raptor	(registry)
17:51:48	watusimoto	we don't need to deal with that on linux or windows
17:52:01	raptor	exactly
17:52:11	watusimoto	so we could even leave the mac stuff as is
17:52:37	raptor	so we can abstract a little of the specific stuff, like checkAndlaunchUpdater() -> would call bfup on windows, sparkle on mac
17:52:51	watusimoto	yes
17:53:27	raptor	i'm still trying to figure out the process flow: game starts, then...
17:53:50	watusimoto	game starts --> checks for updates
17:53:53	raptor	we have: load INI, update INI, check/run updater, update resources
17:54:06	watusimoto	we need a whiteboard
17:54:21	watusimoto	though I am leaving soon, so can't get too deep into this now
17:54:26	watusimoto	can do so later though
17:54:33	raptor	that's ok, just wanted to bring it up briefly
17:54:48	watusimoto	you have my agreement, if that's what you wanted
17:55:49	raptor	ok
17:56:05	raptor	then next i just need to work out the process flow... but can do so later
17:56:22	watusimoto	I'll be around later if you want help
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19:30:33	raptor	Watusimoto: i started some notes: http://beta.etherpad.org/p/bf_update
19:35:26	Watusimoto	ok, I'll check after dinner
19:35:28	Watusimoto	hi bye
19:35:50	raptor	mmmm dinner
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21:02:11	Watusimoto	hi
21:05:54	Watusimoto	raptor: what are your feelings about the gci student?
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21:34:41	raptor	hello Watusimoto
21:34:46	Watusimoto	hi
21:34:47	raptor	uh, seems ok
21:35:02	raptor	if you want to submit a project, i'll help out when i can
21:35:07	Watusimoto	you are so enthusiastic!
21:35:30	Watusimoto	do you think creating parameterized constructors for Lua objects would be too hard?
21:35:58	raptor	i don't think too hard..
21:36:16	raptor	but you'd have to probably put up an example of what exactly you had in mind..
21:36:29	Watusimoto	me neither. I am just a tiny bit concerned about helping people get a dev environment set up
21:36:30	raptor	and did we decide we wanted param-constructors?
21:36:33	Watusimoto	that's always a pain
21:36:41	Watusimoto	I did :-)
21:36:49	Watusimoto	which is better?
21:37:13	raptor	yeah, i was wondering if we'd need to give people a crash course in version control/IDE stuff...
21:37:24	Watusimoto	t = TestItem.new(100,200) or t = TestItem.new; t:setPos(100, 200)?
21:37:34	Watusimoto	the first I tell you!
21:37:56	raptor	but that breaks the java bean convention!
21:38:02	raptor	yes, i like the first
21:39:13	raptor	the issue with parameterized constructors: do we take the all-or-nothing approach? i.e. every settable member is put in the constructor OR empty constructor? (as options)
21:39:32	raptor	or, do we just put in a whole bunch with various useful parameters
21:40:35	Watusimoto	We could do t=TestItem.new(100); t:setY(200)
21:43:06	Watusimoto	I think the anwwer will be different for each object; for goal zones, for example, we could have two parameterized constructors: GoalZone.new(team) and .new(team, geom)
21:43:13	Watusimoto	those both seem useful
21:43:20	raptor	yes
21:43:36	raptor	ok
21:43:51	Watusimoto	but GoalZone(geom) seems less so
21:44:10	Watusimoto	though maybe my vision is limited
21:45:01	raptor	i've just seen (older java mostly) classes with a dozen constructors or so
21:45:21	Watusimoto	I think 1 or 2 would suffice in most cases
21:45:42	Watusimoto	not every option need be availabe by a constructor either
21:45:46	raptor	each one calling various others and filling out defaults
21:45:58	raptor	ok
21:46:05	Watusimoto	like rotating gofasts... rotation (if available at all) would probably not be accessible via a constructor
21:46:32	Watusimoto	I've written a few of those constructors in my time :-)
21:46:38	Watusimoto	in java I mean
21:47:08	raptor	yeah.. me too...
21:47:23	Watusimoto	so when you complete a task, you get a point (from gci)
21:47:33	Watusimoto	how many constructors would be worth a point?
21:47:36	raptor	so GCI is basically get high school students to hate tedious coding jobs?
21:47:37	Watusimoto	3? 5?
21:47:43	Watusimoto	yes
21:48:01	Watusimoto	though, you know, writing the task description will be more work than just doing the code
21:48:09	raptor	that's like.... labor exploitation!
21:48:24	raptor	they get points?
21:48:56	raptor	a contructor gets 1 point + .5 point per parameter
21:48:59	raptor	:)
21:49:01	raptor	maybe
21:49:48	Watusimoto	they get a certificate for 1 point
21:49:54	Watusimoto	and a t-shirt for 3
21:50:05	raptor	interesting...
21:50:13	Watusimoto	so there should be some effort involved, methinks
21:50:48	raptor	how much does a t-shirt cost vs how many hours of simple grunt labor would it take a teenager to acquire equivalent funds
21:50:50	Watusimoto	or we could take the opposite tack, and screw google by flooding them with hundreds of students with easy points to burn
21:51:06	Watusimoto	want a free t-shirt? join our project!
21:51:24	Watusimoto	8 points for playing...er... testing bitfighter!!!
21:51:32	raptor	we could give a point for every 20 school computers bitfighter is installed on
21:51:39	Watusimoto	yes!
21:51:52	Watusimoto	or for every bitfighter sticker they put on someone's locker
21:52:02	raptor	haha
21:52:27	Watusimoto	3 points for every principal's car they spray paint with Bitfighter Rulez!!!
21:52:54	Watusimoto	bitfighter -- the game for vandals!
21:53:15	Watusimoto	we could start the bitfighter army
21:53:35	Watusimoto	hordes of marauding youth terrorizing whole towns
21:53:49	Watusimoto	all in the name of collecting ever more gci points
21:54:00	Watusimoto	and the best part is that google pays for it all!
21:54:34	raptor	haha
21:54:52	raptor	we should take our true names out of the credits...
21:55:24	Watusimoto	yes
21:56:01	Watusimoto	or we could claim total ignornce of what was being done in our names by the hijacked personalities of evilWatuismoto and evilRaptor
21:57:17	raptor	evilRaptor! that doppleganger must be stopped!
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22:10:50	Watusimoto	11PM!!!!
22:10:52	Watusimoto	wow
22:10:59	raptor	yeah, i'm so sleeeepy
22:11:08	Watusimoto	lets see if there are any bugs I can fix before I fall asleep
22:11:23	raptor	oh, did you look at this?: http://beta.etherpad.org/p/bf_update
22:11:31	Watusimoto	in fact I did not
22:11:34	Watusimoto	let me do that now
22:11:43	raptor	you can make changes, suggestions
22:14:04		Watusimoto Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:14:34		Watusimoto has joined
22:14:56	Watusimoto	so how does the mac client know to copy resources?
22:15:08	raptor	it uses the mac registry
22:15:25	raptor	basically mac detects what version of the app you've launched and holds it
22:15:27	Watusimoto	so it compares its version with the version number stored inthe
22:15:30	Watusimoto	yes
22:15:30	Watusimoto	ok
22:15:49	Watusimoto	so it compares its version with the version number stored inthe registry
22:15:53	raptor	we could remove that need by just using the INI
22:16:11	raptor	since INI = our own registry!
22:16:34	Watusimoto	yes
22:16:56	Watusimoto	what happens if new install? same as upgrade? (i.e. copy resources?)
22:17:11	raptor	new install copies to system folders
22:17:28	raptor	on bitfighter launch, it would detect a new install had taken place and update resources
22:18:55	Watusimoto	using the update mechanism
22:19:08	Watusimoto	(i.e. INI file would report current version as being 0 or something)
22:19:52	raptor	yes, but internall we'd know it's 4500
22:20:00	raptor	from that #define we always set...
22:21:05	Watusimoto	I think your propsed chagnes look fine
22:21:19	raptor	i'm open to any changes
22:21:51	Watusimoto	I think it makes sense
22:23:12	raptor	ok
22:23:21	raptor	i'll get to work! (sometime soon..)
22:24:38	raptor	how does the windows updater work? does it halt the game when launched?
22:26:27	Watusimoto	it used to... didn;t seem to last time I tested it
22:26:47	raptor	ok, well, i'll try to keep it in the same broken state
22:27:32	Watusimoto	:-)
22:28:27	raptor	oh blah
22:28:34	raptor	circular dependency on the INI
22:28:54	raptor	looks like BFUP requires an updater setting from the INI
22:29:00	raptor	do we actually need that?
22:30:27	raptor	maybe i'll just load teh INI first
22:38:00	Watusimoto	yes, load the ini first