Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
| 00:00:09 | bobdaduck | Because the negative number counts against it |
| 00:01:52 | raptor | so how to adjust? |
| 00:01:56 | bobdaduck | The middle player can't win |
| 00:01:59 | bobdaduck | because its 2v1 |
| 00:02:20 | bobdaduck | It should probably not allow for negative numbers xD |
| 00:03:07 | bobdaduck | It tries to average the teams batting averages |
| 00:03:13 | bobdaduck | But with negative numbers that doesn't work. |
| 00:03:49 | bobdaduck | If player A has .060, player B has .25 and Player C has .30, B and C will be on a team and that's right |
| 00:03:58 | bobdaduck | er |
| 00:04:04 | bobdaduck | player A has .60 |
| 00:04:18 | bobdaduck | But if player B is -25, it will put him on a team with A |
| 00:04:30 | raptor | footloose almost just got the zonecontroller badge... |
| 00:04:50 | Watusimoto | could add 1 to all scores before matchmaking |
| 00:04:59 | Watusimoto | so there would be no negatives |
| 00:05:06 | bobdaduck | I'm against the batting average system |
| 00:05:15 | | koda Quit (Quit: koda) |
| 00:05:28 | bobdaduck | its etheral and disconnected from the player, no one quite knows how it works |
| 00:05:32 | Watusimoto | ok, running my last test of the evening |
| 00:05:40 | bobdaduck | I'd prefer a K/D/Score version instead |
| 00:05:59 | bobdaduck | Its easy to understand and gives the players a lot more information. |
| 00:06:03 | Watusimoto | and how do you do match making with that? |
| 00:06:36 | bobdaduck | You could do it so score counts for 3 kills |
| 00:06:42 | bobdaduck | Sloppy, but it would work well enough |
| 00:07:03 | bobdaduck | (zone control/hunters/rabbit scores would have to be customized a bit though) |
| 00:07:11 | Watusimoto | what is score? |
| 00:07:18 | bobdaduck | Flag captured |
| 00:07:23 | bobdaduck | Flag retrieved |
| 00:07:33 | bobdaduck | (if a flag is stolen in retrieve take the point off) |
| 00:07:35 | Watusimoto | so points scored by player |
| 00:07:39 | bobdaduck | Right |
| 00:07:41 | bobdaduck | Objective points. |
| 00:08:00 | Watusimoto | test failed |
| 00:08:08 | bobdaduck | Currently score doesn't factor into matchmaking at all, which doesn't seem right |
| 00:09:11 | raptor | :( |
| 00:10:20 | Watusimoto | ok, must sleep |
| 00:10:27 | Watusimoto | will press on tomorrow |
| 00:11:09 | raptor | night |
| 00:11:12 | | sam686 Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 00:11:12 | Watusimoto | i am dumping the metatables just before calling the problem function and it looks good |
| 00:11:17 | Watusimoto | I really don't get this |
| 00:11:27 | raptor | are we falling prey to random garbage collection? |
| 00:11:47 | bobdaduck | Did Quartz show anyone our new level? |
| 00:11:55 | raptor | which? |
| 00:12:01 | Watusimoto | it's conceivable; maybe I can disable it |
| 00:12:09 | Watusimoto | ok, well, that;s for manana |
| 00:12:11 | Watusimoto | night |
| 00:12:16 | bobdaduck | The one that isn't a core map |
| 00:12:37 | | sam686 has joined |
| 00:12:37 | | ChanServ sets mode +v sam686 |
| 00:12:54 | Watusimoto | from desura: |
| 00:12:55 | Watusimoto | Hi watusimoto, |
| 00:12:55 | Watusimoto | Bitfighter |
| 00:12:55 | Watusimoto | -------------------- |
| 00:12:55 | Watusimoto | What I need is the library itself not the DEB to install it. I need the i386 and AMD64 versions of the library. If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask. |
| 00:12:55 | Watusimoto | Tim Jung |
| 00:12:57 | Watusimoto | Desura Game Manager |
| 00:12:59 | Watusimoto | -------------------- |
| 00:13:17 | Watusimoto | I presume he is talking about the libraries you told me we need, raptor |
| 00:13:54 | Watusimoto | should I just tell him to forget about the Linux version? This just seems such a pain |
| 00:13:57 | raptor | that's what i thought he meant |
| 00:14:08 | raptor | and i assumed (wrongly) that he'd just extract them |
| 00:14:13 | Watusimoto | I see |
| 00:14:33 | raptor | because, i wouldn't trust a random library from someone on the internet... so i pointed him to the official repo |
| 00:14:47 | Watusimoto | should I ask him to extract them himself? |
| 00:15:00 | Watusimoto | that would avoid the hassle of figuring out how to send them |
| 00:15:24 | raptor | hmm... maybe you should just put him into contact with me directly... |
| 00:15:36 | raptor | then i'll ask the hard questions about their process |
| 00:15:54 | Watusimoto | ok; can I give him your email addr? I could use the bf.org one |
| 00:16:10 | raptor | yeah... do i have a bf.org one? |
| 00:16:17 | Watusimoto | yes you do |
| 00:16:18 | raptor | (I'd like a raptor@... if possible) |
| 00:16:21 | raptor | really?? |
| 00:16:23 | raptor | great! |
| 00:16:26 | Watusimoto | that's it! |
| 00:16:31 | raptor | uhh... what's the smtp server? |
| 00:18:41 | Watusimoto | it gets forwarded |
| 00:18:49 | raptor | and do i have a password? |
| 00:18:50 | raptor | ok |
| 00:21:28 | Nothing_Much_ | What's the library of the game? |
| 00:21:37 | raptor | there are several |
| 00:21:50 | raptor | but they don't seem to support libmodplug at the moment |
| 00:22:06 | Watusimoto | just sent him an email, and sent you a copy at raptor@ |
| 00:22:19 | Nothing_Much_ | Were there emails asking about their lack of libs? |
| 00:22:31 | Watusimoto | if you don't get it soon, drop me a line, and I'll try again with your other addr |
| 00:22:37 | raptor | okey doke |
| 00:22:47 | Nothing_Much_ | Or in other (more friendly) words, will they bring the libs? |
| 00:23:03 | Watusimoto | And this came as well |
| 00:23:04 | raptor | Watusimoto: how do you actually responde with your @bitfighter.org address? |
| 00:23:04 | Watusimoto | All you need to do for the standalone for Linux is TAR.BZ2 compress the game directory so all that they have to do is uncompress it and start playing. |
| 00:23:33 | Watusimoto | I have an email profile with wat@bf.org as the return address |
| 00:23:39 | Watusimoto | in Thunderbird |
| 00:23:46 | Watusimoto | and it just works |
| 00:23:57 | raptor | so you use a different outbout server, then |
| 00:24:03 | Watusimoto | TB seems to know when to use that addr |
| 00:24:06 | raptor | like googles or your personal one |
| 00:24:13 | Watusimoto | yes; I send via my normal smtp server (mailworks.org) |
| 00:24:25 | raptor | ok, i'll have to do that |
| 00:24:27 | raptor | thanks! |
| 00:24:46 | Watusimoto | ok. thanks! good night! |
| 00:24:51 | raptor | night |
| 00:25:44 | Nothing_Much_ | hope you guys don't give up on desura. :( |
| 00:26:05 | raptor | well... the Linux side of things isn't too clear... |
| 00:26:21 | raptor | i've been looking for best practices and/or documentation, but haven't found much |
| 00:26:51 | raptor | and with the fractured nature of Linux, there needs to be *something* because there are just too many possibilities |
| 00:27:08 | Nothing_Much_ | isn't there already a distro agnostic build? |
| 00:27:14 | Nothing_Much_ | just extract the archive |
| 00:27:20 | Nothing_Much_ | then double click the elf? |
| 00:27:22 | raptor | well |
| 00:27:56 | raptor | there is a static build one can do, but it's not guaranteed to be backwards compatible |
| 00:28:08 | Nothing_Much_ | where is it? |
| 00:28:38 | raptor | and it's tough to set up, and frequently is in violation of licenses because some licenses require you to only dynamically link |
| 00:28:56 | raptor | oh, a static build of bitfighter has never been done |
| 00:29:15 | raptor | because of the difficulty/compatibility issues |
| 00:29:31 | raptor | it's easier to just use the open build service to build for each common distro |
| 00:29:56 | | Watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 00:30:02 | Nothing_Much_ | I'm a little confused, as you guys have stuff as old from Debian lenny |
| 00:30:12 | raptor | yes |
| 00:30:24 | raptor | so ideally, i could create a static build on that old system |
| 00:30:48 | raptor | and we'd be fine... except for the possible license issues of GPL libraries we use |
| 00:30:59 | Nothing_Much_ | ??? |
| 00:31:06 | Nothing_Much_ | explain |
| 00:31:12 | Nothing_Much_ | because gpl is.. gpl, right? |
| 00:31:17 | raptor | yeah, GPL is... GPL |
| 00:31:30 | raptor | it's basically one of the more restrictive open source licenses |
| 00:32:10 | raptor | but we're small enough that we could probably ignore licenses :) |
| 00:32:21 | Nothing_Much_ | what could it possibly be holding the libs back? |
| 00:32:52 | | Nothing_Much_ Quit (Quit: Leaving) |
| 00:33:17 | | Nothing_Much_ has joined |
| 00:33:45 | Nothing_Much_ | what license issue are you having at this moment? |
| 00:34:23 | Nothing_Much_ | because GPLv2 isn't as restrictive as GPLv3 afaik |
| 00:34:30 | raptor | well... i'm not exactly sure.. but i know with LGPL it's safer to link against dynamically |
| 00:34:45 | raptor | you are correct, but LGPL is even more so... |
| 00:35:05 | raptor | anyways, i hate licenses |
| 00:35:23 | Nothing_Much_ | well |
| 00:35:24 | raptor | and the easy solution to any fuzziness is to just link dynamically against them |
| 00:35:31 | raptor | instead of statically |
| 00:35:50 | raptor | so with the desura guys, i need to know *exactly* what their process is |
| 00:36:12 | Nothing_Much_ | well, what in the license keeps you from doing it? and what is dynamic linking? |
| 00:36:23 | raptor | so |
| 00:36:28 | raptor | licenses stink |
| 00:36:46 | raptor | dynamic linking means you link *against* a library (usually a .so file) |
| 00:37:08 | raptor | versus static linking where you compile the library internally to your binary |
| 00:37:32 | raptor | the second, GPL/LGPL puts restrictions on |
| 00:37:54 | raptor | basically things like if you put GPL code in your binary, then your binary *must* be GPL, too |
| 00:38:15 | raptor | and we use several libraries that are not GPL |
| 00:38:29 | raptor | or non-GPL friendly |
| 00:38:56 | | Nothing_Much has joined |
| 00:39:09 | raptor | so the easiest solution is to always dynamically link against them and not worry about the ugliness |
| 00:39:23 | Nothing_Much | wait |
| 00:39:31 | Nothing_Much | GPL/LGPL says shit like that? |
| 00:39:35 | raptor | so i need to figure out what desura actually wants before i have to work with ugliness |
| 00:39:39 | raptor | Nothing_Much: yes |
| 00:39:47 | raptor | GPL is a virus license |
| 00:39:51 | Nothing_Much | iirc, everybody does that |
| 00:40:12 | raptor | the BSD/MIT derivatives are much *freer* licenses |
| 00:40:16 | Nothing_Much | they link dynamically to other stuff that isn't GPL |
| 00:40:21 | Nothing_Much | so I've read |
| 00:40:28 | raptor | yeah, that's fine to dynamically link |
| 00:40:39 | raptor | the issue is static linking |
| 00:41:00 | raptor | static linking gets rid of the problem of needed to distribute libraries |
| 00:41:08 | raptor | because the needed bits are in your binary |
| 00:41:10 | raptor | but |
| 00:41:22 | | Nothing_Much_ Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 00:41:28 | raptor | then GPL ugliness kicks in (in some cases - I haven't figured it all out yet) |
| 00:41:47 | Nothing_Much | oh OH, now I'm understanding, it's the bundled libs that aren't GPL that infringes on the GPL'd BF |
| 00:41:56 | raptor | yes |
| 00:42:01 | kaen | wait, what isn't GPL that bf links against? |
| 00:42:12 | | raptor goes to look again... |
| 00:42:16 | raptor | hi kaen |
| 00:42:19 | kaen | hi all |
| 00:42:30 | raptor | #1 problem: Triangle |
| 00:42:37 | raptor | our bot zone mesh generator |
| 00:43:05 | kaen | looks MIT to me... |
| 00:43:09 | kaen | from the readme |
| 00:43:20 | kaen | oh nope |
| 00:43:21 | kaen | damn |
| 00:43:30 | raptor | wrong readme? :) |
| 00:43:32 | kaen | what was that guy thinking !? |
| 00:43:50 | Nothing_Much | I think the gnu guy's a hippie to the computer world |
| 00:44:06 | kaen | yes, that's a common comparison |
| 00:44:09 | raptor | anyways, if we ever wanted to charge for bitfighter (like 99 cents on the app store) we'd have to figure out how to replace triangle |
| 00:44:26 | raptor | i've found poly2tri, but i thing it has some bugs |
| 00:44:44 | Nothing_Much | hmm.. |
| 00:44:46 | raptor | been about 2 years since i last tried it though.. |
| 00:44:52 | Nothing_Much | is it possible to switch to a BSD license? |
| 00:44:59 | Nothing_Much | or is it too late for BF? |
| 00:45:05 | kaen | wouldn't affect the license of the projects it links to |
| 00:45:06 | Nothing_Much | can it be too late? |
| 00:45:07 | raptor | sure, we can switch to anything since we are the devs |
| 00:45:15 | raptor | but we still ink agaist things like libpng |
| 00:45:19 | raptor | *link |
| 00:45:30 | Nothing_Much | libpng |
| 00:45:31 | Nothing_Much | hmm |
| 00:45:35 | Nothing_Much | you know |
| 00:45:39 | Nothing_Much | oh wait |
| 00:45:40 | Nothing_Much | nvm |
| 00:45:58 | kaen | "libpng license" |
| 00:45:59 | raptor | but, i'm trying to avoid having to reconcile license issues |
| 00:46:09 | kaen | the white hot burning rage of a thousand suns... |
| 00:46:12 | raptor | (and avoid talking about it...) :) |
| 00:46:18 | raptor | haha |
| 00:46:24 | raptor | flees of thousand camels |
| 00:46:28 | raptor | fleas |
| 00:46:35 | kaen | lol |
| 00:46:56 | Nothing_Much | sorry |
| 00:47:29 | kaen | I like talking about licenses. |
| 00:47:36 | Nothing_Much | it's interesting I agree |
| 00:47:40 | raptor | so i'm *hoping* i won't have to work out license garbage and figure out how to deploy on Desura for linux with shared (linked dynamically) libraries |
| 00:47:54 | raptor | kaen: you can't be serious |
| 00:47:58 | kaen | I am :) |
| 00:48:38 | raptor | i know 'law' is a very logical field, and probably correlates to my mindset; but... people |
| 00:48:50 | raptor | and so i avoid |
| 00:49:01 | Nothing_Much | we won't bite though :) |
| 00:49:08 | raptor | haha, good thing! |
| 00:51:00 | kaen | so the desura guys actually want .so files of libs? |
| 00:51:07 | kaen | or did I misread that, too? |
| 00:51:14 | raptor | misread |
| 00:51:16 | raptor | basically |
| 00:51:18 | raptor | we know nothing |
| 00:51:26 | kaen | okay~ |
| 00:51:42 | Nothing_Much | :( |
| 00:52:06 | raptor | watusimoto has been communicating with them instead of me so far, and hasn't asked the specific quesitons we need to (and they haven't given specific enough information) |
| 00:52:14 | kaen | odd. |
| 00:52:32 | raptor | so... he just told them to contact me, and i'll get to ask all the fun stuff |
| 00:52:39 | kaen | not like this is the first linux game they've added. you'd think they'd have some written instructions by now. |
| 00:52:46 | raptor | exactly!! |
| 00:52:58 | raptor | i went to #desura and asked around |
| 00:53:03 | raptor | got mixed responses |
| 00:53:06 | Nothing_Much | it's community based |
| 00:53:13 | Nothing_Much | it's mostly for the FOSS client |
| 00:53:29 | Nothing_Much | I don't think any official Desura people are there, sadly :( |
| 00:53:29 | raptor | oh yeah, that's right |
| 00:53:39 | raptor | community based |
| 00:54:09 | Nothing_Much | gonna look for a foss game on desura and see if it's gpl or not |
| 00:55:29 | Nothing_Much | oh here's one |
| 00:56:31 | raptor | I haven't even found anything about whether there is a default system to compile to (like i think Valve does Ubuntu 12.04) |
| 00:56:42 | raptor | or minimum glibc, etc.. |
| 00:56:59 | Nothing_Much | the minimum glibc is 2.15 |
| 00:57:06 | Nothing_Much | for steam |
| 01:01:50 | Nothing_Much | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License#Point_of_view:_static_linking_violates_GPL_but_unclear_as_of_dynamic_linking |
| 01:02:44 | | raptor runs away from the topic of licenses |
| 01:02:54 | raptor | Nothing_Much: but yeah, welcome to the GPL |
| 01:03:33 | Nothing_Much | would it be easier to just switch licenses and link statically? |
| 01:03:53 | raptor | we don't own the code for the GPL/LGPL libraries that we use |
| 01:04:28 | Nothing_Much | I meant for just the game, so when there's a GPL lib it also has to be compatible with the GPL too? |
| 01:04:50 | raptor | that's where the fuzziness comes in |
| 01:05:08 | raptor | if we statically link in a GPL library then yes |
| 01:05:44 | raptor | but dynamic, i say no (and we've been operating under that assumption, as well as thousands of other projects) |
| 01:06:45 | Nothing_Much | hrm.. |
| 01:07:05 | raptor | so all this license talk might be irrelevant depending on desura's policies |
| 01:07:15 | Nothing_Much | oh, how so? |
| 01:07:29 | Nothing_Much | because desura might allow dynamics? |
| 01:07:50 | raptor | yes |
| 01:08:35 | Nothing_Much | pretty sure they do, but you just wanna make sure |
| 01:08:38 | Nothing_Much | right? |
| 01:08:46 | raptor | right |
| 01:09:02 | Nothing_Much | here's to hoping for the best! |
| 01:09:04 | raptor | and ask other questions, like if they provide some of the libraries to link against (or guarantee they'll be there) |
| 01:09:11 | raptor | yeah... |
| 01:09:13 | raptor | we'll see |
| 01:11:38 | Nothing_Much | :( |
| 01:12:46 | Nothing_Much | if nothing happens with desura, apologies for bringing it up to you guys |
| 01:12:57 | raptor | ha! no worries |
| 01:13:05 | raptor | if anything it'll increase visibility a little |
| 01:13:12 | raptor | which is what we want |
| 01:13:16 | Nothing_Much | it should |
| 01:13:33 | Nothing_Much | I've been testing Desurium out recently |
| 01:13:41 | Nothing_Much | so hopefully that'll bring out a push for an official update |
| 01:14:10 | Nothing_Much | believe it or not, there's actually some people who are familiar with Steam and just hate it because of it's drm |
| 01:14:29 | Nothing_Much | so there is most certainly an audience for your type of game |
| 01:18:31 | kaen | oh how I hate fuzz. |
| 01:20:37 | raptor | patch applied. fuzz 2345 lines |
| 01:20:42 | raptor | that fuzz? |
| 01:31:51 | Nothing_Much | aside from the desura stuff, how's it goin' so far guys? |
| 01:33:53 | raptor | doing ok |
| 01:34:25 | raptor | we're close to releasing, as far as bug count/features go (i think) |
| 01:34:27 | raptor | but |
| 01:34:31 | raptor | we have a bug we can't solve |
| 01:34:46 | Nothing_Much | that lua bug still? |
| 01:34:59 | raptor | yes... sigh |
| 01:35:14 | Nothing_Much | do lua guys exist that could help you pinpoint the problem? |
| 01:35:33 | raptor | well, watusimoto has asked about it on stackoverflow |
| 01:35:47 | raptor | but it's using highly customized code |
| 01:36:03 | Nothing_Much | ohh |
| 01:36:24 | raptor | so help would require knowing Lua + Lua |
| 01:36:26 | raptor | oops |
| 01:36:36 | Nothing_Much | Lua^2 |
| 01:36:37 | Nothing_Much | :D |
| 01:36:43 | Nothing_Much | no wait |
| 01:36:48 | Nothing_Much | Lua x 2 |
| 01:36:50 | raptor | Lua + LuaW (our c++ wrapper) + Bitfighter code |
| 01:37:05 | Nothing_Much | oh my |
| 01:37:12 | amgine1234566789 | raptor is it possible to make p-poly walls move using level gens |
| 01:41:24 | bobdaduck | Making wals via levelgen |
| 01:41:36 | bobdaduck | Probably not. |
| 01:42:30 | raptor | amgine1234566789: not yet, walls are a special case |
| 01:49:34 | | Fordcars has joined |
| 01:49:56 | Nothing_Much | sup fordcars? |
| 01:50:15 | Fordcars | I just got myself a Raspberry Pi! |
| 01:50:33 | Nothing_Much | nice |
| 01:50:41 | Nothing_Much | what do you plan to run on it? |
| 01:50:48 | Fordcars | desbian |
| 01:50:51 | Fordcars | with GUI |
| 01:51:06 | Nothing_Much | *debian |
| 01:51:09 | Fordcars | I already have the OS on an sd card |
| 01:51:17 | Nothing_Much | oh really? how'd you manage that? |
| 01:51:20 | Fordcars | lol sorry too much Assasins Creed :P |
| 01:51:28 | Fordcars | well its kinda easy |
| 01:51:44 | Fordcars | drag and drop, with the right sd card format |
| 01:52:08 | Nothing_Much | will it boot? |
| 01:52:12 | Fordcars | yep |
| 01:52:24 | Fordcars | it's designed to boot from sd |
| 01:52:43 | bobdaduck | Don't abuse the zapdance smily? BUT WHYYYY |
| 01:52:49 | Fordcars | lol |
| 01:52:52 | Nothing_Much | teehee |
| 01:52:58 | Nothing_Much | so it's preinstalled? |
| 01:53:26 | Fordcars | some sd cards have the os preInstalled |
| 01:53:29 | Fordcars | not mine |
| 01:53:35 | Fordcars | but it's simple |
| 01:54:17 | Nothing_Much | not sure if a drag 'n drop will suffice for a full bootup |
| 01:54:24 | Nothing_Much | did that once |
| 01:54:28 | Nothing_Much | didn't work out very well |
| 01:54:52 | Fordcars | lol I did that once and it worked for installing Debian on my old Wii |
| 01:55:05 | Fordcars | depends what your running on I guess |
| 01:55:55 | Nothing_Much | maybe |
| 01:56:10 | Fordcars | but it might install the OS on the Raspberry Pi and only the Installer is on the SD Card |
| 01:56:17 | Fordcars | might |
| 01:56:58 | Fordcars | I didn't look onto this stuff yet |
| 01:59:38 | raptor | hey Fordcars, just FYI - i think bitfighter dedicated server is compilable on a rasppi |
| 02:00:06 | Nothing_Much | you have an arm build? |
| 02:00:36 | raptor | well - i've compiled on various arm platforms, yes |
| 02:00:39 | raptor | (all virtual machines) |
| 02:01:57 | Nothing_Much | then it should be compatible |
| 02:02:40 | raptor | i think the ones i've compiled on had hardware FPUs (floating point units) |
| 02:02:51 | raptor | so i'm not sure about the ARM platforms that don't have that.. |
| 02:03:03 | raptor | ARM is like the Linux of hardware |
| 02:03:10 | raptor | so many variations |
| 02:03:50 | Nothing_Much | oh myt |
| 02:03:53 | Nothing_Much | *my |
| 02:17:32 | Fordcars | hehe nice raptor! |
| 02:17:46 | raptor | ? |
| 02:18:38 | Fordcars | yeah, It apparently, has the same cpu as the iPhone 3G |
| 02:19:09 | Fordcars | sorry I was retarded, just came back to IRC. I was talking about your PM |
| 02:19:21 | raptor | ah ok |
| 02:19:38 | Fordcars | :P |
| 02:23:38 | Nothing_Much | I think ARM is compatible with its variations |
| 02:23:41 | Nothing_Much | To an extent |
| 02:24:07 | raptor | yes it is, but the biggest difference is whether or not it has a hardware FPU |
| 02:24:27 | Nothing_Much | does it matter? |
| 02:24:41 | raptor | so there are basically two arm platforms to compile to: armv5tel and armv7l |
| 02:24:45 | raptor | (I think) |
| 02:24:48 | raptor | it sure does matter |
| 02:25:00 | Nothing_Much | oh |
| 02:25:10 | raptor | without the hardware floating point unit, performance problems can be extreme |
| 02:25:33 | Nothing_Much | oh |
| 02:25:39 | raptor | so if you have one, it's best to tell the compiler (which can probably auto-figure it out) |
| 02:28:41 | Nothing_Much | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ARM_microprocessor_cores |
| 02:29:31 | raptor | yeah there's lots |
| 02:30:01 | | Fordcars_ has joined |
| 02:30:11 | Nothing_Much | http://www.arm.com/products/processors/index.php |
| 02:30:46 | Fordcars_ | the thing I like about raspberry is that you can connect a breadboard to it, I think it's called a breadboard |
| 02:31:17 | Nothing_Much | daughterboard I think |
| 02:31:31 | Nothing_Much | actually |
| 02:31:42 | raptor | the thing to remember about ARM is that it's an architecture, not a CPU |
| 02:31:42 | Nothing_Much | maybe Rasperry pi is a daughterboard |
| 02:31:52 | Fordcars_ | a circuit board without soldering anyway. The "Reusable Circuit Board" |
| 02:31:56 | raptor | and they license their architecture technology to anyone |
| 02:32:02 | Nothing_Much | yeah I know that |
| 02:32:09 | raptor | ah ok |
| 02:32:10 | Fordcars_ | hehe nice |
| 02:32:16 | Nothing_Much | that arm is an arch not a processor |
| 02:32:21 | | Fordcars Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 02:32:33 | Nothing_Much | trying to figure out which one's older and which ones have fpu or not |
| 02:32:41 | Fordcars_ | lol yeah |
| 02:33:04 | kaen | <Fordcars_> a circuit board without soldering anyway. The "Reusable Circuit Board" |
| 02:33:07 | kaen | yeah that's a breadboard |
| 02:33:09 | raptor | so almost everyone that compiles for arm does one of two: armv5 (without hardware FPU) and armv7 (with FPU) |
| 02:33:29 | Nothing_Much | armv5? |
| 02:33:55 | Nothing_Much | oh look at that |
| 02:33:59 | Nothing_Much | I completely missed that diagram |
| 02:34:03 | Nothing_Much | http://www.arm.com/products/processors/instruction-set-architectures/index.php |
| 02:34:04 | raptor | somtimes referred to as armv5tel |
| 02:34:15 | raptor | and the other: armv7hl |
| 02:37:01 | Nothing_Much | huh |
| 02:37:04 | Nothing_Much | what about arm11? |
| 02:37:29 | Nothing_Much | oh it's an oldie |
| 02:37:33 | Nothing_Much | but that's what's on the pi |
| 02:38:04 | raptor | i think you'd either use an armv5 distro for it |
| 02:38:14 | raptor | or recompile a distro from scratch for it |
| 02:38:18 | bobdaduck | WHY NO ABUSING THE ZAPDANCE EMOTE |
| 02:38:45 | raptor | bobdaduck: I said 'please' didn't I? |
| 02:38:51 | bobdaduck | yes but still xD |
| 02:38:59 | | Quartz has joined |
| 02:39:01 | bobdaduck | I almost want to say people SHOULD abuse it |
| 02:39:03 | bobdaduck | because its fun xD |
| 02:39:12 | Quartz | yeah |
| 02:39:14 | Quartz | it's so pro |
| 02:39:20 | bobdaduck | ikr |
| 02:39:28 | raptor | welcome Quartz |
| 02:39:29 | Quartz | these noobs are in for a treat tonight |
| 02:39:31 | Quartz | best map ever |
| 02:39:41 | raptor | must i always be distracted from homework? |
| 02:39:47 | Quartz | yes |
| 02:39:47 | bobdaduck | IKR |
| 02:39:49 | bobdaduck | Dude |
| 02:39:52 | bobdaduck | I'ma head home |
| 02:39:55 | Quartz | sweeeet. |
| 02:39:56 | bobdaduck | in like 10 min |
| 02:40:01 | bobdaduck | And we can unveil it! |
| 02:40:01 | Quartz | sweeeet. |
| 02:40:15 | bobdaduck | Should we dedicate it to someone? |
| 02:40:19 | Quartz | nah |
| 02:40:23 | Quartz | it's already quite themed |
| 02:40:34 | Quartz | one day though. |
| 02:40:41 | Quartz | "NEWMAP!" "for raptor" |
| 02:40:42 | bobdaduck | ONE DAY. |
| 02:40:45 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 02:40:58 | Quartz | Then the map name will be completely silly in 5 years |
| 02:41:18 | bobdaduck | yeah |
| 02:41:27 | Quartz | I remade the maps today btw... |
| 02:41:31 | Quartz | well, 2/3 of them |
| 02:41:49 | Quartz | One of them, lolol what I did is questionable. I like it, but I dunno if everyone else will. |
| 02:42:04 | bobdaduck | hah |
| 02:42:08 | bobdaduck | We'll see. |
| 02:42:25 | Quartz | NO REGERTS. |
| 02:42:47 | Quartz | http://dollarvigilante.com/storage/02012/46-may-2012/No%20Regerts%20Tattoo.jpeg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1336263652262 |
| 02:43:19 | bobdaduck | I REGRET NOTHING |
| 02:46:00 | Quartz | I REGERT NOTHING |
| 02:46:04 | Quartz | shower time |
| 02:51:12 | Fordcars_ | oh man how can I work when Bitfighter is right on my desktop! |
| 02:51:51 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 02:51:56 | Nothing_Much | teehee |
| 02:52:09 | raptor | so i'm doing a study (in my head) |
| 02:52:58 | raptor | what is it about people that makes them drawn to bitfighter? and is there a correlation (personality or other) between these people? |
| 02:54:01 | bobdaduck | I need to meet more bitfighters in person |
| 02:54:08 | raptor | heh |
| 02:54:10 | bobdaduck | To psychoanalyze them. |
| 02:54:26 | | Quartz Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 02:54:27 | raptor | well, you've met... 2? |
| 02:54:33 | raptor | 3? |
| 02:55:06 | bobdaduck | But: Its community is enjoyable to people, the freedom of playstyle/level editor creativity, and it seems to be just in general a good place to "hangout" online. |
| 02:56:00 | bobdaduck | We need to balance modules/weapons if we want to attract a more competitive crowd though |
| 02:57:25 | amgine1234566789 | nah they are fine |
| 02:58:13 | bobdaduck | No, they aren't |
| 02:58:23 | bobdaduck | bouncer and triple are worthless |
| 02:58:27 | Nothing_Much | what's so bad about BF atm that makes it unbalanced? |
| 02:58:30 | Nothing_Much | wat |
| 02:58:33 | Nothing_Much | not necessarily |
| 02:58:40 | Nothing_Much | well |
| 02:58:47 | Nothing_Much | maybe triple could use some more spreading out |
| 02:58:52 | Nothing_Much | bouncer's pretty good tho |
| 02:58:52 | bobdaduck | Yes, necessarily. Phaser beats bouncer and triple 100% |
| 02:59:05 | bobdaduck | Cloak is terrible |
| 02:59:12 | raptor | i've been thinking about balance adjustments for 019 |
| 02:59:37 | raptor | most are easy to make |
| 02:59:45 | raptor | really, really easy to code |
| 02:59:45 | bobdaduck | because not only can you spot a cloaker by the stars getting covered up or them hitting a wall, but sensor directly counters it, and the energy investment is huge. |
| 03:00:20 | bobdaduck | Sensor is pretty much just there to counter cloak and for the spybugs. Sensors range needs a slight increase. |
| 03:00:29 | raptor | which range? |
| 03:00:45 | bobdaduck | Repair needs to repair faster, or add a double-tap super repair (like pulse) |
| 03:00:51 | bobdaduck | The overall sight range |
| 03:01:02 | raptor | really? |
| 03:01:09 | raptor | and still passive? |
| 03:01:38 | bobdaduck | It gives you approximately three ship-lengths of warning time before the enemy ship sees you |
| 03:01:48 | bobdaduck | Which is a distance covered in approx .5 seconds. |
| 03:02:07 | amgine1234566789 | no triple is fine its great in scooer and nexus matches |
| 03:02:37 | amgine1234566789 | reapit is fine also |
| 03:03:37 | bobdaduck | Amgine: "no." |
| 03:03:52 | bobdaduck | Phaser is better than triple. The end. |
| 03:04:11 | bobdaduck | It uses no energy and does the same amount of damage in nearly the same amount of time. |
| 03:04:24 | bobdaduck | Bouncer is pretty much a phaser that costs energy and hurts you. |
| 03:04:49 | raptor | and wreaks havoc! let's loose the dogs of war! |
| 03:05:02 | bobdaduck | And kills yourself before it kills your enemy. |
| 03:05:02 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 03:05:11 | bobdaduck | If we really want a weapon that is just chaos like that |
| 03:05:16 | raptor | yes... maybe we shoudl reduce the self-damage again |
| 03:05:26 | bobdaduck | It should be a weapon with that exact purpose: Unleashes havoc. |
| 03:05:42 | bobdaduck | Bouncer is supposed to be some sort of tactical situational weapon |
| 03:05:50 | raptor | i'm a fan of bouncer - mostly for comedic effect |
| 03:05:51 | bobdaduck | but no one stands still long enough for it to be useful, ever. |
| 03:05:53 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 03:08:01 | raptor | there was one level by LA that it was really useful on |
| 03:08:07 | raptor | it was called 'toilet' i think |
| 03:08:14 | Fordcars_ | but all of these things are just a question of changing a few variables in the code |
| 03:08:23 | Fordcars_ | toilet was by lamp |
| 03:08:36 | raptor | this was like 1.5 years ago |
| 03:08:43 | raptor | was Lamp around then? |
| 03:08:45 | bobdaduck | Nope |
| 03:08:47 | bobdaduck | Lamp is new |
| 03:08:52 | raptor | i never know.. |
| 03:09:27 | raptor | so balance changes are easy to make in the code, but hard to play test |
| 03:09:39 | raptor | i mean, hard to get just right with play testing |
| 03:09:44 | bobdaduck | I made my own balance changes a year or so ago |
| 03:09:53 | bobdaduck | Shield cost more, cloak cost way less |
| 03:10:09 | bobdaduck | Triple was a shotgun that could one shot from point blank |
| 03:10:19 | bobdaduck | but had such a short range that it was useless if you didn't get it *just* right. |
| 03:10:26 | bobdaduck | ...I didn't touch bouncer |
| 03:10:31 | raptor | maybe cloak should be passive... |
| 03:10:35 | bobdaduck | noooo |
| 03:10:36 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 03:10:40 | bobdaduck | Just make it cost less |
| 03:10:43 | bobdaduck | Or |
| 03:10:46 | bobdaduck | If you're not moving |
| 03:10:47 | bobdaduck | cost nothing. |
| 03:10:54 | raptor | it's waay cheap |
| 03:11:02 | raptor | already |
| 03:11:05 | bobdaduck | This counters the movement covering up the stars issue |
| 03:11:23 | raptor | actually... |
| 03:11:27 | raptor | we had plans for cloak |
| 03:11:33 | bobdaduck | Heh, you can stand still cloaked for about 10 seconds? |
| 03:11:45 | raptor | like sensor wouldn't pick it up if it wasn't moving AND it would use less/no energy if not moving |
| 03:11:55 | bobdaduck | You can't lie in wait for an ambush unless you know ahead of time someone is coming |
| 03:11:59 | bobdaduck | Which means you need sensor |
| 03:12:06 | bobdaduck | which means you can't fight someone when they get there |
| 03:12:14 | bobdaduck | because they will just shield or move away |
| 03:12:31 | raptor | i'm not sure which comment of mine you are responding to.. |
| 03:12:40 | bobdaduck | I wasn't responding to |
| 03:12:41 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 03:12:43 | raptor | oh ok |
| 03:12:44 | bobdaduck | Here's response: |
| 03:12:47 | bobdaduck | Sensor can counter cloak |
| 03:12:52 | bobdaduck | but cloak needs to be better |
| 03:13:07 | bobdaduck | Cloak is so bad right now it doesn't NEED a counter because it is its own counter |
| 03:14:01 | bobdaduck | I'm headed home |
| 03:14:03 | bobdaduck | seeyall |
| 03:14:23 | | bobdaduck Quit (Quit: Page closed) |
| 03:19:53 | Fordcars_ | seeya |
| 03:20:06 | Nothing_Much | woo |
| 03:20:14 | Nothing_Much | oh man, nobody's on the #desura IRC :( |
| 03:20:40 | Fordcars_ | I am :P |
| 03:20:47 | Nothing_Much | oh hey |
| 03:21:07 | Fordcars_ | hey |
| 03:21:35 | Fordcars_ | is Bitfighter on desura now? |
| 03:22:01 | Nothing_Much | not yet |
| 03:22:05 | Nothing_Much | there might be an issue |
| 03:22:18 | Nothing_Much | but I'm about 67% sure that they allow dynamic linking |
| 03:22:44 | Nothing_Much | if not then it probably won't wind up on Desura unless a license thing changes :( |
| 03:23:23 | Fordcars_ | :( |
| 03:23:27 | Fordcars_ | ok |
| 03:25:58 | Nothing_Much | I'm really hoping it gets there |
| 03:28:32 | Fordcars_ | yeah |
| 03:30:07 | | bobdaduck has joined |
| 03:30:41 | Fordcars_ | I never met a Bitfighter in person :( |
| 03:30:52 | bobdaduck | Okay I'm back! |
| 03:31:15 | Fordcars_ | hi |
| 03:33:27 | Nothing_Much | wb sir |
| 03:33:36 | Nothing_Much | bitfighters are real?! |
| 03:33:50 | bobdaduck | Well |
| 03:33:55 | bobdaduck | I can attest that at least two are. |
| 03:33:56 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 03:34:26 | Nothing_Much | wat |
| 03:34:27 | Nothing_Much | who? |
| 03:38:47 | Fordcars_ | is it raptor and sam? |
| 03:40:36 | Nothing_Much | who's sam686? don't think I saw him talk before |
| 03:45:02 | Fordcars_ | lol |
| 03:45:19 | Fordcars_ | he is one of the main developpers |
| 03:45:37 | Fordcars_ | for windows |
| 03:47:28 | | Quartz has joined |
| 03:47:49 | Quartz | This channel is logged. |
| 03:48:00 | Quartz | hey guy looking through the log |
| 03:48:01 | Quartz | yeah you |
| 03:48:06 | Quartz | you are bad and should feel bad |
| 03:48:35 | Quartz | Sorry 'bout that. But the ONE time somebody is actually looking through perhaps, they will see that and be like "whoa." |
| 03:50:17 | Nothing_Much | nah |
| 03:50:36 | Quartz | Don't be lame. That was totally badass. |
| 03:50:51 | Quartz | TOTALLY. |
| 03:50:52 | Quartz | BADASS. |
| 03:52:14 | Nothing_Much | nah |
| 03:52:18 | Quartz | yah |
| 03:52:51 | Nothing_Much | nah |
| 03:54:09 | Quartz | everybody get on bitfighter |
| 03:54:12 | Quartz | And got to Rave Party server |
| 03:54:35 | bobdaduck | GET ON BF |
| 03:56:01 | Nothing_Much | ping's timin' out |
| 03:57:08 | Quartz | have you tried to connect anyway? |
| 03:57:14 | Quartz | Sometimes it still works from my experience |
| 03:57:16 | Quartz | even if it says that |
| 03:58:18 | Nothing_Much | ping died |
| 03:58:21 | Nothing_Much | nvm |
| 03:58:58 | bobdaduck | dude raptor get in here |
| 04:01:52 | Nothing_Much | literally no connection :( |
| 04:05:42 | Nothing_Much | where the heck do you guys live? |
| 04:06:32 | bobdaduck | Quartz CA |
| 04:06:35 | bobdaduck | I'm in UT |
| 04:07:05 | Quartz | qq |
| 04:08:16 | Fordcars_ | I'm really far from you guys and was fine |
| 04:10:10 | Nothing_Much | oh man |
| 04:10:13 | Nothing_Much | Floridian here |
| 04:10:53 | Nothing_Much | ping gets really high for me |
| 04:10:57 | Nothing_Much | prolly cuz I'm on wifi |
| 04:11:44 | bobdaduck | huh |
| 04:11:47 | bobdaduck | Maybe if I hosted... |
| 04:11:50 | Fordcars_ | hehe me too |
| 04:12:00 | Fordcars_ | anyway, later guys! |
| 04:12:45 | Nothing_Much | later dude |
| 04:15:02 | raptor | hello?? |
| 04:15:04 | raptor | anyone here? |
| 04:15:23 | Quartz | Yeah noob come to the esrver |
| 04:15:26 | Quartz | *server |
| 04:15:28 | raptor | kk |
| 04:16:06 | | Fordcars_ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 04:44:15 | | Quartz Quit (Quit: Page closed) |
| 05:00:46 | bobdaduck | You guys wish you could make levels like that |
| 05:01:21 | raptor | yes, yes i do |
| 05:01:36 | raptor | maybe we should hold a design contest just for stuff like that... |
| 05:03:23 | Nothing_Much | uh |
| 05:03:32 | Nothing_Much | that map I couldn't play on at all |
| 05:03:33 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 05:03:41 | bobdaduck | Well |
| 05:03:45 | bobdaduck | You were just totally missing the point |
| 05:03:51 | bobdaduck | then |
| 05:03:52 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 05:03:58 | Nothing_Much | well |
| 05:04:01 | Nothing_Much | it was mostly lag |
| 05:05:52 | | amgine1234566789 Quit (Quit: Page closed) |
| 05:12:58 | Nothing_Much | mind if I posted Bitfighter on /r/Linux_Gaming? |
| 05:13:18 | bobdaduck | Dude |
| 05:13:21 | bobdaduck | ADVERTISE AWAY. |
| 05:13:21 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 05:13:27 | bobdaduck | PUT IT ON POSTERS |
| 05:13:29 | bobdaduck | TREES |
| 05:13:31 | bobdaduck | MOUNTAINS. |
| 05:13:36 | bobdaduck | The biggest thing though |
| 05:13:40 | Nothing_Much | http://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/ |
| 05:13:45 | bobdaduck | is being ONLINE when people come to try it out. |
| 05:13:50 | Nothing_Much | here's an idea of where your game will be posted |
| 05:14:00 | Nothing_Much | or that's exactly where it will be posted |
| 05:14:09 | bobdaduck | Because people go off to try it |
| 05:14:12 | bobdaduck | and nobody is on! |
| 05:14:19 | bobdaduck | And then they never come back |
| 05:14:25 | Nothing_Much | since reddit has a bad rep, but there are good subs out there |
| 05:14:28 | Nothing_Much | and this is one of them |
| 05:15:06 | Nothing_Much | hmm |
| 05:15:07 | Nothing_Much | welp |
| 05:15:20 | Nothing_Much | there have been some people that responded to my desurium recruitment thread |
| 05:17:13 | raptor | ok folks, heading to bed - good night! |
| 05:18:16 | bobdaduck | night! |
| 05:19:32 | Nothing_Much | later! |
| 05:22:19 | | raptor Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 05:45:51 | bobdaduck | I would like to announce |
| 05:45:56 | bobdaduck | I just got the zone controller badge. |
| 05:46:01 | Nothing_Much | woooo |
| 05:48:55 | | kodaws has joined |
| 05:50:35 | bobdaduck | First one |
| 05:58:28 | bobdaduck | To ever get it |
| 05:58:30 | bobdaduck | ^.^ |
| 06:03:00 | | Lamp89 has joined |
| 06:03:12 | Lamp89 | Hey raptor, I have a player report for you. |
| 06:03:30 | Lamp89 | http://cl.ly/image/0k2X132s2z3q |
| 06:03:41 | Lamp89 | I think u should put a bad word filter. |
| 06:03:48 | Lamp89 | On both the forum and game. |
| 06:03:51 | Lamp89 | Mostly the game |
| 06:04:04 | Lamp89 | And bobdaduck, you wanted me to make a soccer map |
| 06:04:09 | Lamp89 | should I make it now? |
| 06:04:35 | bobdaduck | Yeah |
| 06:04:37 | bobdaduck | Lamp: |
| 06:04:47 | bobdaduck | About a bad word filter, and about reporting players: |
| 06:05:18 | bobdaduck | We pretty much let players play and act however they want, but if you want to ban a player from your server for cussing feel free to do that |
| 06:05:25 | bobdaduck | And about the bad word filter: |
| 06:05:57 | Lamp89 | yes |
| 06:06:01 | bobdaduck | The general consensus was "a lot of work and not a lot of payoff." Watusimoto said "I have no desire to make a list of every naughty word I can think of, do you?" |
| 06:06:19 | Lamp89 | maybe you can download a pre-made list? |
| 06:06:22 | Lamp89 | Just install it |
| 06:06:45 | Lamp89 | because everyone plays this game, from 1 second old to a trillion years old. |
| 06:06:57 | bobdaduck | Actually |
| 06:07:06 | bobdaduck | most of our age base is within the 10-15 range |
| 06:07:21 | Lamp89 | Quartz said I was bad. |
| 06:07:27 | Lamp89 | wanna see it? |
| 06:07:31 | Lamp89 | [3:47:49] <Quartz> This channel is logged. |
| 06:07:31 | Lamp89 | [3:48:00] <Quartz> hey guy looking through the log |
| 06:07:31 | Lamp89 | [3:48:01] <Quartz> yeah you |
| 06:07:33 | Lamp89 | [3:48:06] <Quartz> you are bad and should feel bad |
| 06:07:38 | Lamp89 | :( |
| 06:09:36 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 06:09:46 | bobdaduck | Don't take Quartz too seriously :P |
| 06:13:36 | Lamp89 | who wanna play? |
| 06:13:53 | Lamp89 | lets paly |
| 06:13:56 | Lamp89 | play |
| 06:14:19 | bobdaduck | Its a bit late... |
| 06:31:52 | | Nothing_Much Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 06:50:19 | | Nothing_Much has joined |
| 07:24:54 | Lamp89 | :( |
| 07:24:58 | Lamp89 | no one wanna play? |
| 07:25:11 | Lamp89 | Nothing_Much hi |
| 07:25:18 | Nothing_Much | yes? |
| 07:25:22 | Lamp89 | wanna play? |
| 07:25:51 | Lamp89 | Nothing_Much wanna play? |
| 07:26:02 | Nothing_Much | eh |
| 07:26:08 | Nothing_Much | probably gonna head out soon, sorry |
| 07:26:10 | Nothing_Much | dude |
| 07:26:12 | Lamp89 | :( |
| 07:26:17 | Lamp89 | wat |
| 07:26:29 | Lamp89 | Nothing_Much wat |
| 07:26:37 | Nothing_Much | sorry dude |
| 07:26:46 | Lamp89 | oh |
| 07:26:55 | | Lamp89 Quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 07:36:05 | | kodabws has joined |
| 07:39:36 | | kodaws Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 07:42:02 | | Lamp89 has joined |
| 07:42:02 | | Lamp89 Quit (Changing host) |
| 07:42:02 | | Lamp89 has joined |
| 07:42:31 | Lamp89 | hi |
| 07:43:13 | Lamp89 | any discussion? |
| 07:43:17 | Lamp89 | no? |
| 07:43:18 | Lamp89 | :( |
| 07:43:24 | | Lamp89 Quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 07:44:53 | | Darrel has joined |
| 07:57:35 | | bobdaduck Quit (Quit: Page closed) |
| 08:26:10 | | chumpchange has joined |
| 08:27:33 | chumpchange | Ifyou're promoting desura why not xfire? - http://bitfighter.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=145#p843 |
| 08:27:40 | chumpchange | real time logging yeah! |
| 08:28:15 | chumpchange | hit and run bye! |
| 08:28:18 | | chumpchange has left |
| 08:37:06 | | watusimoto has joined |
| 08:37:06 | | ChanServ sets mode +o watusimoto |
| 08:37:35 | watusimoto | hey kodabws |
| 08:39:44 | kodabws | hi watusimoto |
| 08:39:57 | watusimoto | 80% chance I'll go to fosdem |
| 08:40:02 | kodabws | \o/ |
| 08:40:16 | watusimoto | it just seems too easy |
| 08:40:23 | kodabws | with such a short notice |
| 08:40:56 | watusimoto | but why not? since there is no registration, it's easy, especially by train |
| 08:44:26 | watusimoto | anyway, if I go, I'll be wearing my Red Sox cap (http://shop.mlb.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=707973). If you see me, introduce yourself. My name is Chris. |
| 08:45:39 | kodabws | ok with pleasure |
| 08:45:55 | kodabws | i'll be wearing a hoodie with the amsterdam hard rock cafe most likely |
| 08:46:27 | kodabws | too bad i haven't loaded the mobile bitfighter on my phone :p |
| 08:46:40 | kodabws | (neither hedgewars mobile for that matter...) |
| 09:08:03 | watusimoto | yeah, too bad. I'd like to see it. |
| 09:09:24 | kodabws | i'll push a video sometime in the future when something is presentable |
| 09:11:58 | watusimoto | great! |
| 09:20:47 | | chumpchangeoz has joined |
| 09:21:05 | chumpchangeoz | shouldn't bitfighter.net redirect to the canonical bitfighter.org or www.bitfighter.org ? |
| 09:22:13 | chumpchangeoz | I think it's not just a trivial thiing - google penalizes pages with duplicate content? |
| 09:22:17 | chumpchangeoz | seo. |
| 09:22:26 | chumpchangeoz | anyway hit and run! going again. |
| 09:22:27 | chumpchangeoz | exit |
| 09:22:30 | | chumpchangeoz Quit (Client Quit) |
| 10:21:42 | watusimoto | kodabws: up to 90% chance I'll go as I booked a hotel room |
| 11:09:43 | | kodabbws has joined |
| 11:12:56 | | kodabws Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 11:24:56 | | Darrel Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 11:44:52 | | Darriel has joined |
| 11:45:22 | | Darriel is now known as Darrel |
| 13:13:40 | | raptor has joined |
| 13:13:40 | | ChanServ sets mode +o raptor |
| 13:27:30 | | kodaws has joined |
| 13:29:28 | | kodabbws Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 15:48:15 | | bobdaduck has joined |
| 15:48:26 | bobdaduck | Morning, gents. |
| 15:54:23 | watusimoto | hi |
| 15:54:28 | raptor | hello |
| 15:58:01 | raptor | desura never contacted me after your e-mail, watusimoto, but i didn't expect them to.. |
| 15:58:29 | watusimoto | but you got the message I sent to r@bf? |
| 15:59:34 | raptor | yes |
| 15:59:40 | raptor | so that works |
| 15:59:50 | watusimoto | well, let's count that as a victory! |
| 15:59:57 | raptor | i also checked the junkmail filters.. |
| 16:00:01 | raptor | hooray! |
| 16:00:08 | watusimoto | oh look, message just in from desura |
| 16:00:11 | watusimoto | The issue is I assume you are compiling the game and libraries on an older version of Ubuntu or whatever to make sure it works with as many systems as possible. I am running a very new version of Ubuntu. It is easier since your game already uses them for you to either add them to lib directory in your game directory and add that directory to end of the library search path or send me copies of the libraries. The simplest method is for you to inc |
| 16:00:11 | watusimoto | Tim Jung |
| 16:00:41 | raptor | was i in the adressee list? |
| 16:00:48 | watusimoto | no |
| 16:01:04 | raptor | ok, forward that to me please, and i'll hijack the thread |
| 16:02:17 | watusimoto | no can-do |
| 16:02:25 | watusimoto | it's all embedded in the desura interface |
| 16:02:31 | watusimoto | I jsut asked him to stop by here |
| 16:04:07 | raptor | huh |
| 16:04:31 | raptor | so has *any* of your communication been done by e-mail? and can I access said interface? |
| 16:05:41 | watusimoto | no and I think so |
| 16:05:56 | watusimoto | but it's more like the pm interface in our forums |
| 16:06:21 | watusimoto | except there's only two buttons -- preview and send |
| 16:06:53 | watusimoto | this is the dude: |
| 16:06:55 | watusimoto | http://www.desura.com/members/protektor |
| 16:07:12 | bobdaduck | He has a skype |
| 16:07:26 | bobdaduck | and it says an email that's "members only" |
| 16:10:23 | watusimoto | raptor is a member |
| 16:10:33 | raptor | watusimoto: all of your messages have been to 'protektor' ? |
| 16:11:25 | watusimoto | Not all, but most of them -- he's "Tim" |
| 16:11:45 | watusimoto | I think he's in the US, but not positive |
| 16:11:48 | raptor | because i'll just PM him directly from my account |
| 16:11:54 | watusimoto | yes, that would be good |
| 16:12:00 | watusimoto | he'll know who you are |
| 16:12:10 | watusimoto | if he's been reading my messages, that is :-) |
| 16:12:32 | raptor | ok, i found a 'Compose a new Private Message'; is that it? |
| 16:12:37 | watusimoto | I think so |
| 16:12:53 | raptor | ok, i'll will try and hijack... |
| 16:13:09 | watusimoto | don't forget you're chute! |
| 16:13:10 | bobdaduck | His profile says he's in the U.S. |
| 16:14:46 | raptor | 'chute'??? |
| 16:14:59 | raptor | oh haha |
| 16:15:22 | raptor | watusimoto: would you do me a favor and change my r@bf.org address to point to my gmail? (do you have that?) |
| 16:15:39 | watusimoto | I do not have that, but would be happy to do it |
| 16:16:30 | watusimoto | email it to me, or pm me here |
| 16:17:31 | raptor | thank you |
| 16:18:21 | bobdaduck | Also again: Should my name in the forums be a different color because I'm a moderator? |
| 16:20:23 | raptor | oh yeah... let me play with colors... |
| 16:23:42 | watusimoto | ok, done -- you should get a mail soon |
| 16:28:13 | raptor | got it! thanks! |
| 16:29:28 | raptor | bobdaduck: actually i don't even know how you show up in the moderators list - you're not actually part of any moderator group... |
| 16:29:39 | bobdaduck | Huh. |
| 16:29:55 | bobdaduck | I can lock topics and stuff, so obviously I *am* a moderator |
| 16:30:00 | bobdaduck | I don't show up though? |
| 16:30:03 | raptor | yes |
| 16:30:17 | raptor | you don't show up in the administartor control panel |
| 16:31:03 | bobdaduck | Huh, you're right. |
| 16:31:04 | raptor | there's 'global moderators' |
| 16:31:13 | bobdaduck | Just _K is in that |
| 16:31:21 | bobdaduck | Maybe put me there too? |
| 16:31:22 | raptor | i'll just make a new group and add you - what color? |
| 16:32:02 | bobdaduck | You could add me to global moderators |
| 16:32:06 | bobdaduck | that's pretty much what I am. |
| 16:32:28 | raptor | well, except you don't have banning power, do you? |
| 16:33:01 | bobdaduck | I do. |
| 16:33:13 | raptor | i suppose if watusimoto is fine with it i can add you to that - what do you think watusimoto? should we add bobdaduck to global moderators? |
| 16:33:17 | raptor | :) |
| 16:33:29 | watusimoto | sure |
| 16:33:42 | watusimoto | but bobdaduck: use a light touch |
| 16:33:51 | bobdaduck | BAN EVERYONE |
| 16:34:43 | bobdaduck | I instill much confidence |
| 16:34:53 | bobdaduck | I go draw another comicz |
| 16:35:04 | raptor | just remember bobdaduck: we are watching... (except in Off-Topic) |
| 16:35:33 | bobdaduck | Keep in mind I've been a mod (if hidden, even from you guys :P) since the forums began. |
| 16:35:53 | | raptor smites bobdaduck with a rod of green |
| 16:36:12 | bobdaduck | HAPPY SAINTS PATRICK DAY, EVERYONE |
| 16:36:50 | | Watusimoto_ has joined |
| 16:42:17 | bobdaduck | I'm gonna go see "warm bodies" today. |
| 16:42:23 | bobdaduck | Anyone seen it yet? |
| 16:42:28 | raptor | what is that? |
| 16:43:14 | bobdaduck | Curing zombies with love. |
| 16:43:35 | bobdaduck | Its a movie that just came out |
| 16:47:32 | bobdaduck | Its supposed to be hilarious |
| 16:51:41 | watusimoto | I saw django unchained last night |
| 16:52:09 | watusimoto | exactly what you would expect: overly bloody, great characters, stupid ending |
| 16:54:10 | bobdaduck | As stupid as the end to the book "Andromeda Strain"? |
| 16:56:14 | watusimoto | probably |
| 16:59:34 | bobdaduck | Book by the guy who did jurrasic park |
| 17:00:17 | bobdaduck | Its about this virus that kills everyone and all these guys are trying to figure it out and its killing everything and then in the last five pages "Oh, the virus randomly mutated into a form that eats plastic instead of killing people!" The end. |
| 17:01:18 | raptor | no spoilers!! |
| 17:01:45 | bobdaduck | Too late |
| 17:07:23 | bobdaduck | Python and Lua are pretty similar, aren't they? |
| 17:14:43 | watusimoto | in some very general ways, yes |
| 17:14:53 | watusimoto | but mostly no |
| 17:19:01 | | kodaws Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 17:19:33 | | raptor Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 17:28:54 | | raptor has joined |
| 17:28:54 | | ChanServ sets mode +o raptor |
| 17:37:19 | raptor | ok |
| 17:37:28 | raptor | i'm going to send that PM to protektor for real now... |
| 17:40:50 | bobdaduck | Did you PM him for fake before? |
| 17:40:55 | raptor | yes |
| 17:43:44 | bobdaduck | Is our matchmaking system being fixed? |
| 17:44:06 | raptor | i don't need to find a mate anymore.. |
| 17:45:26 | bobdaduck | SOME of us still have that problem though |
| 17:45:33 | bobdaduck | And I think we should take that into account. |
| 17:50:48 | raptor | so... what are you talking about? |
| 17:52:33 | bobdaduck | The batting average system |
| 17:52:40 | bobdaduck | and the allowance of negative numbers |
| 17:52:43 | raptor | ok, the K/D ratio? |
| 17:52:56 | bobdaduck | I was thinking a K/D/Score |
| 17:53:40 | bobdaduck | Where score is objective points earned (capturing the flag, scoring a goal) |
| 17:54:23 | bobdaduck | For matchmaking purposes, a point is worth 3 kills in most gametypes, with exceptions in hunters and others |
| 17:55:00 | bobdaduck | We could make the system complicated by saying "okay, ten points in hunters is worth .01 kills" and factor in a bunch of stuff, but I think it would probably be easier to just throw it out. |
| 17:56:17 | raptor | to be honest - i know little of the point system |
| 17:56:29 | raptor | although i did the preliminary coding for the kill/death ratio system |
| 17:56:54 | raptor | ok watusimoto, long winded PM sent, with you on it |
| 17:57:08 | watusimoto | super! |
| 17:57:34 | bobdaduck | Okay, either way our current matchmaking system is broken, inadequate, or both. |
| 18:01:11 | bobdaduck | Maybe I could do the coding for it |
| 18:01:21 | bobdaduck | Would that be a good reintroduction to coding project? |
| 18:03:35 | bobdaduck | also raptor: |
| 18:03:40 | bobdaduck | I got the zone control badge last night. |
| 18:03:46 | raptor | hi |
| 18:03:54 | raptor | a willing sacrifice!? |
| 18:04:00 | raptor | really? |
| 18:04:05 | | raptor checks database |
| 18:04:09 | bobdaduck | lolwhat? |
| 18:04:42 | raptor | you got it! |
| 18:04:51 | raptor | you're the first one! |
| 18:04:54 | raptor | was it rigged? |
| 18:04:56 | raptor | :) |
| 18:05:22 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 18:05:22 | bobdaduck | Yes. |
| 18:05:45 | raptor | sigh... |
| 18:05:50 | | raptor goes to remove badge |
| 18:05:51 | bobdaduck | Well not entirely. |
| 18:06:03 | bobdaduck | I was about to score the 3rd touchdown |
| 18:06:12 | bobdaduck | but there wasn't enough players (3) |
| 18:06:15 | raptor | listening.. |
| 18:06:26 | bobdaduck | So I got on facebook and told Quartz to join as I scored the last one. |
| 18:06:32 | raptor | ha! |
| 18:06:33 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 18:06:39 | raptor | and did others let you score? |
| 18:06:43 | bobdaduck | No |
| 18:06:45 | raptor | oh |
| 18:06:46 | bobdaduck | It was a shutout |
| 18:06:56 | raptor | ok then - congratulations! (i let you keep it) |
| 18:07:12 | bobdaduck | But you should probably code it so badge calculations are based on people being there for the beginning of the game. |
| 18:09:22 | raptor | yeah - or some other algorithm |
| 18:09:22 | bobdaduck | And for reference: Quartz joined onto my team, so I scored the 3 touchdowns me vs 2 |
| 18:09:43 | raptor | like if players are there for half the game time or something.. |
| 18:09:54 | bobdaduck | Yeah yeah sure |
| 18:09:59 | bobdaduck | So back to the matchmaking problem |
| 18:10:11 | raptor | a willing sacrifice! |
| 18:10:23 | raptor | you wish to offer your soul to the gods of coding? |
| 18:10:27 | bobdaduck | rofl |
| 18:10:53 | bobdaduck | Well not right now, and probably not today because I've got plans. |
| 18:11:16 | raptor | :) |
| 18:11:18 | bobdaduck | But would fixing the matchmaking algorith (and display, the batting average looks really ugly to me) be a good reentry coding project? |
| 18:11:36 | raptor | so there are probably two parts to this: |
| 18:11:43 | raptor | 1. coming up with a new algorithm |
| 18:11:47 | raptor | 2. implementing in code |
| 18:11:54 | raptor | 3. adapting it to *our* code |
| 18:13:20 | raptor | i would say it could be a good entry coding project, depending on how complicated you with to make things :) |
| 18:13:29 | watusimoto | I concur! |
| 18:13:37 | watusimoto | not too hard programatically |
| 18:13:54 | watusimoto | very hard to find the right formula |
| 18:13:57 | bobdaduck | *trying to remember coding from two years ago* So... A switch statement for each gametype to give a different calculation method for each, I'll need to pull scores from wherever they're stored to in our code, and I'll need to make them display |
| 18:14:20 | bobdaduck | ...Right? |
| 18:14:39 | raptor | uhh... watusimoto, didn't code a set of 'rules' somewhere for each gametype? |
| 18:14:44 | raptor | *didn't you |
| 18:15:21 | watusimoto | You won't need to display anything -- only compute. But I have to go, I'll be back later... can discuss it then. And yes, somewhere. Run Bitfighther with "-rules", I think, to see a big dump of everything. |
| 18:15:23 | bobdaduck | They'd need to be different, of course, because scoring points is significantly easier in hunters than in ctf... |
| 18:15:39 | raptor | ok see ya watusimoto |
| 18:15:40 | watusimoto | you'd want to implement a custom method in each gameType that did what you wanted |
| 18:15:49 | watusimoto | ok, bye |
| 18:16:06 | bobdaduck | In each gametype file? |
| 18:16:15 | bobdaduck | .cpp or whatever? |
| 18:16:19 | raptor | class |
| 18:16:21 | raptor | yes |
| 18:16:32 | bobdaduck | Or in whatever file I'll be working in just make several different gametype cases? |
| 18:16:37 | raptor | so, do you know the concept of inheritance? |
| 18:17:23 | bobdaduck | Objects are instances of a class |
| 18:17:37 | raptor | actually let me get you a picture... |
| 18:17:43 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 18:17:47 | bobdaduck | *brb |
| 18:18:39 | raptor | bobdaduck: http://bitfighter.org/~raptor/doxygen/current/class_zap_1_1_game_type.html |
| 18:20:40 | | watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 18:36:35 | bobdaduck | kback |
| 18:37:36 | bobdaduck | Yes, I am probably fairly familiar with the concept of inheritance. |
| 18:37:38 | raptor | see above link^^ ? |
| 18:37:42 | raptor | ok |
| 18:38:40 | raptor | so what you'd do is make a virtual method in the GameType class (called getPointByScore() or whatever), then have the same method in each child-class that returns something specific to their game type |
| 18:39:05 | bobdaduck | Right |
| 18:39:32 | bobdaduck | Now rephrase that sentence to use gangster slang terms instead of technical terms like "virtual" so that I can understand it... |
| 18:40:14 | raptor | 'virtual' can mean 'abstract' or basically just a placeholder that you are going to override in each child class |
| 18:41:03 | bobdaduck | okay |
| 18:41:09 | bobdaduck | Got it |
| 18:41:37 | raptor | so it's like a standard: daddy says all children must were clothes, but it's up to each child to choose what to wear |
| 18:41:47 | bobdaduck | I gotta make the dummy function in gametype.cpp and then make the same function in each individual gametype that does the actual stuff. |
| 18:41:50 | raptor | *wear |
| 18:41:56 | raptor | correct |
| 18:43:05 | bobdaduck | Great |
| 18:43:10 | raptor | now, your algorithm will be put into GameType itself |
| 18:43:14 | bobdaduck | ...So how do I do that specific to our code. |
| 18:43:38 | bobdaduck | Because I've looked at bitfighter's code and it ISN'T the same C++ I learned in high school. |
| 18:43:39 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 18:43:43 | raptor | haha |
| 18:43:48 | raptor | we've cleaned it up a lot!! |
| 18:43:56 | raptor | but yeah.. it's probably muchmore complex |
| 18:44:21 | bobdaduck | Fun fact: The original source code for Zap! that we built off had little to no commenting, and watusimoto added almost all the comments we have now by himself. |
| 18:44:30 | raptor | oh wow |
| 18:44:36 | raptor | well that's good |
| 18:44:36 | bobdaduck | Like, NO commenting. |
| 18:44:49 | raptor | if you want people to help with code, you need comments! |
| 18:44:51 | bobdaduck | It had cryptic stuff like "// call "getVoid()" |
| 18:45:03 | bobdaduck | And that was the extent of it. |
| 18:45:14 | bobdaduck | Wat did a lot of work there. |
| 18:46:18 | bobdaduck | So anyway I'll definitely need help but I'll also need the code to be right there in front of me to do anything. |
| 18:46:45 | bobdaduck | Because I won't know exactly what I need to do. |
| 18:46:57 | raptor | yeah, but i'd start with a decent algorithm in your head, first; maybe even take a look at watusimoto's game score scores already lying around somewhere |
| 18:47:13 | raptor | the 'rules' |
| 18:47:42 | bobdaduck | Algorithm as far as score calculations go or algorithm as far as coding? |
| 18:47:56 | raptor | as far as calculations |
| 18:47:56 | bobdaduck | Score calculations are the easy part, so I'm not worried there. |
| 18:48:08 | raptor | implementing it in code will be easier than coming up with a balanced algo |
| 18:48:28 | raptor | ok, i think we just said the opposite of each other... |
| 18:48:32 | raptor | maybe we're both right! |
| 18:48:34 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 18:48:45 | bobdaduck | JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN CODE. |
| 18:49:36 | bobdaduck | nah I'm pretty sure scoring algorithms will be super easy |
| 18:50:07 | bobdaduck | I'm pretty good with "where things need to be" I just have trouble getting there :P |
| 18:51:06 | raptor | ok, and when i say algo, i mean - (killCount + scoreScore / deathCount) |
| 18:51:18 | raptor | some actual mathematical algorithm |
| 18:51:41 | bobdaduck | Okey |
| 18:52:17 | bobdaduck | But honestly if we just made it say Kills/Deaths/Score on the scoreboard and didn't count score for matchmaking at all it would be better than what we have now xD |
| 18:57:03 | raptor | better as in more understandable? |
| 18:57:12 | raptor | but the hard part is balancing teams on that.. |
| 18:57:19 | bobdaduck | Kills/deaths. |
| 18:57:39 | bobdaduck | You can't get negative numbers that way, so matchmaking is ALREADY fixed by that. |
| 18:59:55 | bobdaduck | Factoring in score is the tricky part, but score should be a part of matchmaking. |
| 19:02:05 | raptor | ok i agree |
| 19:02:36 | raptor | that's what i consider tricky, too: coming up with a balanced algorithm |
| 19:03:17 | bobdaduck | Nahhhh |
| 19:03:23 | bobdaduck | Implementing the balanced algorithm. |
| 19:03:50 | bobdaduck | We can assume a lot from the average scores in most gametypes |
| 19:04:42 | raptor | ok so |
| 19:04:42 | bobdaduck | Most zone controls have ~6 zones, so each point could count as 1/6th a point |
| 19:04:59 | bobdaduck | If we were really fancy we could check for how many zones in the level |
| 19:05:09 | raptor | ^^ that's what you'd have to do |
| 19:05:27 | bobdaduck | But going by approximations is sufficient for at least improving the algorithm, it just isn't perfect. |
| 19:05:32 | raptor | so the algo would be: points = zones scored / total zones per touch down |
| 19:05:57 | bobdaduck | In hunters things go by tens, but the average top score in hunters is about 2500 |
| 19:06:37 | bobdaduck | So I'd probably take whatever score you have in hunters and count every 500 points as 1 point on the scoreboard |
| 19:07:07 | raptor | OR |
| 19:07:12 | raptor | ok |
| 19:07:17 | bobdaduck | Oh, here's one hangup I'll hit: you score in retrieve, and then someone takes the flag back. |
| 19:07:28 | raptor | no hardcoding stuff |
| 19:07:31 | bobdaduck | I need to decrease the score by 1 |
| 19:07:33 | raptor | or at least try to avoid |
| 19:07:40 | raptor | so no 1s or 500s, etc |
| 19:07:59 | bobdaduck | NO HARDCODING STUFF? BUT WHYYYYYY |
| 19:07:59 | raptor | it would be: current score / highest score |
| 19:08:01 | bobdaduck | pfft fine |
| 19:08:16 | raptor | and retrieve would be hard, yes |
| 19:08:30 | bobdaduck | Zone control would need it too. |
| 19:10:21 | bobdaduck | Hardcoding stuff would be sufficient for *improving* what we have. |
| 19:10:33 | bobdaduck | It would be bad and sloppy though |
| 19:10:41 | raptor | do it good once and you don't have to do it again |
| 19:10:47 | raptor | please please please |
| 19:10:49 | bobdaduck | So yeah I should probably figure out how to do right |
| 19:10:51 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 19:10:55 | raptor | that's as important as documenting... |
| 19:12:12 | bobdaduck | Top score / current score\ |
| 19:12:25 | bobdaduck | should work in most cases\ |
| 19:13:08 | bobdaduck | and the losing a point part is going to be tough probably |
| 19:20:12 | | Watusimoto_ Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 19:22:14 | raptor | do you know how to use version control? (mercurial) |
| 19:25:53 | bobdaduck | No |
| 19:26:29 | raptor | are you willing to learn? |
| 19:26:53 | raptor | because - if you actually commit code to the tree, then you get the dev badge! |
| 19:27:36 | bobdaduck | Yeah sure |
| 19:27:42 | bobdaduck | THEN I'LL HAVE ALL THE BADGES. |
| 19:27:49 | raptor | ha |
| 19:36:02 | bobdaduck | No really, I think that's the only one I'm missing. |
| 19:36:17 | raptor | level design contest winner? |
| 19:36:20 | raptor | BBB gold? |
| 19:36:46 | bobdaduck | Oh right, maybe not. |
| 19:36:56 | bobdaduck | IN SPIRIT I have the level design contest badge. |
| 19:39:05 | bobdaduck | BECAUSE I WAS MY OWN DECIDING VOTE. |
| 19:39:12 | raptor | haha |
| 19:39:45 | bobdaduck | Also I've seen people other than invisible with level design contest badges? |
| 19:40:06 | raptor | is that a statement or question! |
| 19:40:13 | bobdaduck | Both. |
| 19:40:28 | raptor | i think santiago zap has it |
| 19:40:34 | bobdaduck | Yeah, um, how? |
| 19:40:46 | raptor | he won the contest before last |
| 19:40:54 | raptor | which happened after the badge was coded |
| 19:41:07 | | LordDVG has joined |
| 19:41:30 | bobdaduck | Ah. |
| 19:41:45 | bobdaduck | I think someone else had it too because I don't think I've seen santiago in-game.. |
| 19:42:35 | raptor | nope, just those two (i just checked) |
| 19:43:52 | bobdaduck | Huh. Okay |
| 19:44:23 | bobdaduck | I'll just win the next contest then. |
| 19:44:25 | bobdaduck | No biggie |
| 19:44:29 | raptor | good! |
| 19:45:07 | bobdaduck | I remember back in the day |
| 19:45:24 | bobdaduck | I could identify who's map was who's just by the map name |
| 19:46:17 | bobdaduck | Invader alexes were always the easiest |
| 19:46:21 | raptor | what does that mean? |
| 19:46:43 | bobdaduck | "the love that I have for your train" |
| 19:47:17 | bobdaduck | He is the most eccentric person I've never met. |
| 19:47:27 | bobdaduck | NEVER. |
| 19:49:02 | raptor | ? |
| 20:01:21 | bobdaduck | Yo nothing |
| 20:01:39 | bobdaduck | Why "nothingmuchheretosay"? |
| 20:02:24 | Nothing_Much | That's my alias lol |
| 20:02:38 | Nothing_Much | Couldn't fit NMHTS on IRC |
| 20:03:31 | raptor | 4 players on 017 right now.. |
| 20:03:53 | raptor | and.. they're gone |
| 20:05:08 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 20:05:19 | bobdaduck | Why is it your alias |
| 20:05:27 | bobdaduck | and why do you have a facebook account with it? |
| 20:06:12 | | Watusimoto has joined |
| 20:07:08 | raptor | tip of the day: don't cut watermelon on a cutting board previously used for onions |
| 20:07:59 | Watusimoto | good advice! use a garlic cutting board instead! |
| 20:08:26 | Watusimoto | so I am going to be away tomorrow and most o fsunday, just fyi |
| 20:08:32 | raptor | fosdem? |
| 20:08:36 | Watusimoto | yup |
| 20:08:44 | raptor | cool - tell me what you learn |
| 20:09:02 | Watusimoto | I've learned it's good to marry a sympathetic girl! |
| 20:09:13 | raptor | ha true! |
| 20:09:27 | Watusimoto | I've learned not to cut watermelons on a cutting board you used for onions! |
| 20:09:30 | Watusimoto | lots of lessons! |
| 20:11:15 | bobdaduck | I've learned that a fedora makes my hair itchy! |
| 20:11:47 | bobdaduck | AND I taught a bunch of strangers on the internet that I'm wearing a fedora! |
| 20:13:03 | | LordDVG Quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 20:13:21 | bobdaduck | I like the green |
| 20:13:30 | bobdaduck | its vibrant and new and exciting. |
| 20:14:10 | Watusimoto | does anyone know who lordDVG is, btw? |
| 20:14:14 | Nothing_Much | green's alright |
| 20:14:22 | bobdaduck | No idea |
| 20:14:30 | bobdaduck | I thought he was one of the google guys |
| 20:15:00 | bobdaduck | Notmuch: Talking about the forums, my name is green now to properly indicate to members that I'm a mod. |
| 20:15:49 | raptor | Watusimoto: LordDVG has hung around the channel for a while last year |
| 20:15:54 | raptor | not saying much |
| 20:16:00 | Watusimoto | yes I know that |
| 20:16:11 | Watusimoto | I think once he actually said something :-) |
| 20:16:38 | Watusimoto | kind of like Clarence Thomas... lurking silently, says something once, and no one is sure what it wsa |
| 20:16:39 | bobdaduck | First result: "Lord DVG on google+" |
| 20:17:25 | raptor | i think he was a Linux user from southeastern europe, but not sure.. |
| 20:17:56 | bobdaduck | He has a bitfighter account |
| 20:18:00 | bobdaduck | last seen 1 year ago |
| 20:18:09 | raptor | Watusimoto: was taht a reference to a supreme court judge? |
| 20:18:23 | Watusimoto | it was indeed |
| 20:18:24 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 20:18:57 | Nothing_Much | Oh that's good |
| 20:19:06 | Nothing_Much | that you're not indicated as a mod |
| 20:19:16 | bobdaduck | He's a programmer in perl and c++. he loves GNU/Linux and he's using Debian. |
| 20:19:34 | raptor | nothing is private anymore... |
| 20:19:42 | bobdaduck | rofl |
| 20:19:47 | raptor | if i was a perl programmer, i wouldn't let people know... |
| 20:19:51 | bobdaduck | xDD |
| 20:20:53 | bobdaduck | That's on his twitter |
| 20:21:10 | bobdaduck | Should I stalk further or is that enough? |
| 20:23:24 | bobdaduck | I'm pretty sure I have the right guy; He's never posted anything on twitter, and his other website pages are completely empty. |
| 20:24:25 | Watusimoto | lots of talks about scripting in the linux/bsd kernel with lua |
| 20:26:40 | Watusimoto | I have a better understanding of how C++ methods are stored in lua, and how the object registration process works if you ever need to know |
| 20:27:09 | raptor | closer to a solution? |
| 20:27:20 | Watusimoto | alas no, but I do have 2 new things to test |
| 20:27:26 | Watusimoto | try to disable garbage collection |
| 20:27:46 | Watusimoto | and look at what happens when you quit a game to the editor and then test it again |
| 20:28:06 | Watusimoto | that fixes bots temporarily in a way that restarting a level doesn't |
| 20:28:16 | raptor | you think the GC is eating up the metatable? |
| 20:28:18 | raptor | odd.. |
| 20:28:19 | Watusimoto | so what happens there? maybe a clue |
| 20:28:25 | Watusimoto | no, but you do :-) |
| 20:28:55 | raptor | heh, i don't know what i think about the problem... because i don't have as good an understanding of our Lua code... |
| 20:29:08 | raptor | so i make wild guess |
| 20:29:13 | raptor | guesses |
| 20:50:20 | Watusimoto | hear back from the desura dude? |
| 20:53:48 | Watusimoto | so disabling gc is pretty easy -- just insert collectgarbage("stop") in the bot's main fn |
| 21:16:29 | Watusimoto | ok, disabling gc doesn't fix it |
| 21:17:06 | Watusimoto | and acutally, restarting from the editor doesn't fix it (or no longer does |
| 21:17:22 | Watusimoto | mmmm... so that;s tonight's ideas in the toilet |
| 21:24:47 | Watusimoto | trying to super-disable caching and see if that's really the issue (thinking it may not be if fordcars saw an error with 018) |
| 21:33:52 | bobdaduck | Delete engineer, make cloak not cost energy when standing still (but not regen), give repair a double-tap option, replace bouncer with a railgun, and triple with a shotgun. Make seekers do burst damage but no knockback. Make shield cost slightly more energy. |
| 21:34:48 | Watusimoto | if cloak costs nothing when standing still, people will just disappear. it will be lame |
| 21:35:50 | bobdaduck | No because |
| 21:36:08 | Watusimoto | it would be the killer nexus strategy... gather a bunch of flags and just hang out waiting for the nexus to open |
| 21:36:19 | bobdaduck | Um, everyone already does that. |
| 21:36:23 | bobdaduck | Like srsly. |
| 21:36:30 | Watusimoto | but now I could do it 5 mins |
| 21:36:53 | bobdaduck | No, because someone takes sensor. |
| 21:36:59 | bobdaduck | Which is a direct counter to cloak |
| 21:37:28 | Watusimoto | why wouldn;t they just take cloak as well |
| 21:37:55 | bobdaduck | Because the cloaker has sensor too! |
| 21:38:07 | Watusimoto | they'd give up shield for that? |
| 21:38:24 | bobdaduck | And the sensor person would give up shield for cloak too? |
| 21:38:35 | Watusimoto | so they go after the perpetually invisible dude, who also has shield, and they lose |
| 21:39:10 | bobdaduck | But the invisible dude can't see them because they have shield instead of sensor |
| 21:39:37 | bobdaduck | Either way cloak needs *some* kind of a buff because its pretty much worthless right now. |
| 21:39:57 | Watusimoto | well, allowing someone to use it forever is not the fix |
| 21:40:15 | bobdaduck | Make triple a shotgun that's actually powerful |
| 21:40:17 | bobdaduck | That would fix it. |
| 21:42:24 | bobdaduck | I like the replace bouncer with a railgun idea |
| 21:44:29 | Watusimoto | what's the railgun? |
| 21:46:03 | Watusimoto | so... disabling cache doesn;t actually fix the problem |
| 21:46:05 | bobdaduck | A railgun |
| 21:46:13 | bobdaduck | Is like a long range sniper-laser |
| 21:46:16 | bobdaduck | that bounces off walls |
| 21:46:20 | bobdaduck | and pierces. |
| 21:48:39 | raptor | hi hi |
| 21:48:48 | bobdaduck | It would travel fast enough that people wouldn't really have time to react, but it would cost a fair chunk of energy and have a longish cooldown |
| 21:49:16 | raptor | railgun = highspeed projectice that essentially means instantaneous damage |
| 21:49:21 | raptor | *projectile |
| 21:49:31 | raptor | so Watusimoto you think the problem was in 018, too? |
| 21:49:41 | Watusimoto | it might have been |
| 21:49:55 | Watusimoto | according to fordcars it was |
| 21:50:10 | bobdaduck | so raptor what do you think of replacing bouncer with a railgun. |
| 21:52:21 | raptor | i'm still a fan of bouncer... |
| 21:53:09 | Watusimoto | me too |
| 21:53:09 | raptor | what other properties does a railgun have? i've seen it implemented by going through walls and having long cooldown |
| 21:53:15 | raptor | in other games |
| 21:53:28 | bobdaduck | Railgun fast, long range, bounces off walls, and pierces. |
| 21:54:01 | Watusimoto | bouncer fastish, sort of long range, bounces of walls, pierces |
| 21:54:12 | Watusimoto | faster, longer range bouncer == railgun? |
| 21:54:32 | bobdaduck | bouncer doesn't pierce |
| 21:54:36 | bobdaduck | does super low damage |
| 21:54:41 | bobdaduck | has a really fast firerate |
| 21:54:44 | Watusimoto | it peierces armor |
| 21:54:45 | bobdaduck | and travels really slow. |
| 21:54:48 | bobdaduck | okay |
| 21:54:50 | bobdaduck | by pierce |
| 21:54:59 | bobdaduck | I mean it hits a ship or turret and keeps going through them. |
| 21:55:34 | Watusimoto | not sure I like the concept |
| 21:55:51 | Watusimoto | i think it would make things look broken if the bullet kept going after a collision |
| 21:56:04 | bobdaduck | I'm thinking we don't even have a bullet |
| 21:56:10 | bobdaduck | We just have a line flash on the screen. |
| 21:57:13 | bobdaduck | The games I've seen railgun it like just draws a laser along the trajectory |
| 21:57:27 | bobdaduck | Railguns go FAST. |
| 21:59:22 | Watusimoto | ok, so wtf: |
| 21:59:25 | Watusimoto | this code: |
| 21:59:28 | raptor | where's the food? |
| 21:59:32 | bobdaduck | missing a semicolon! |
| 21:59:42 | Watusimoto | local mt = getmetatable(target) |
| 21:59:42 | Watusimoto | logprint ("getEnergy: "..tostring(mt.getEnergy)) |
| 21:59:42 | Watusimoto | local otherPow = target:getEnergy() + target:getHealth() * #items |
| 21:59:42 | Watusimoto | |
| 21:59:48 | Watusimoto | produces this output: |
| 22:00:04 | Watusimoto | getEnergy: function: 058EF5B8 |
| 22:00:04 | Watusimoto | ***ROBOT ERROR*** |
| 22:00:04 | Watusimoto | In method onTick(): |
| 22:00:04 | Watusimoto | robots/s_bot.bot:253: attempt to call missing or unknown method 'getEnergy' (a nil value) |
| 22:00:11 | Watusimoto | explain that to me |
| 22:00:20 | Watusimoto | no don't bother... you can't |
| 22:00:26 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 22:01:11 | raptor | yeah... umm |
| 22:01:14 | raptor | maybe |
| 22:01:25 | raptor | there's more than one getEnergy? |
| 22:01:57 | raptor | or maybe the robot object itself is different somehow? |
| 22:02:13 | Watusimoto | this line fixes the bots sort of: |
| 22:02:15 | Watusimoto | local otherPow = mt.getEnergy(target) + mt.getHealth(target) * #items |
| 22:02:36 | Watusimoto | basically calling the function through the metatable directly, rather than via the bot |
| 22:02:47 | Watusimoto | though those should be exactly the same thing |
| 22:03:11 | Watusimoto | ok, good, that's something I can pose a question about |
| 22:03:38 | bobdaduck | uh |
| 22:04:14 | bobdaduck | nmd |
| 22:05:47 | raptor | Watusimoto: i agree with bobdaduck that we should make some balance changes in 019, although the extent of which i'm not sure |
| 22:05:57 | Watusimoto | ok, sure |
| 22:05:58 | raptor | also no, desura guy didn't get back to me |
| 22:06:05 | bobdaduck | Everything I said is true! |
| 22:06:05 | Watusimoto | lame |
| 22:06:19 | raptor | i think he must have a only read e-mails/PMs once a day rule... |
| 22:14:35 | | bobdaduck Quit (Quit: Page closed) |
| 22:15:28 | Watusimoto | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14655949/why-does-one-work-and-one-crash |
| 22:15:59 | Watusimoto | I finally found a foothold to base a so question on |
| 22:16:36 | raptor | yay |
| 22:18:11 | Watusimoto | I suspect a lua error |
| 22:18:31 | raptor | perhaps... we need to upgrade to 5.2? |
| 22:19:04 | | Darrel Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 22:22:51 | Watusimoto | I was thinking about that today |
| 22:23:01 | Watusimoto | that would mean porting luavec to 5.2 |
| 22:23:13 | raptor | that's downloadable as a patch |
| 22:23:17 | Watusimoto | and doing some other stuff |
| 22:23:20 | Watusimoto | it is?? |
| 22:23:22 | raptor | yes |
| 22:23:27 | Watusimoto | really?? |
| 22:23:37 | raptor | i checked like a month ago and the author put up all lua-vec changes as a diff |
| 22:24:32 | Watusimoto | diff from 5.1 |
| 22:25:14 | Watusimoto | ? |
| 22:25:20 | raptor | the most recent two changes didn't make it into the diff: https://code.google.com/p/lua-vec/source/list |
| 22:25:25 | raptor | ah yes, diff to 5.1 |
| 22:26:23 | Watusimoto | ok, I've been through the code before |
| 22:26:43 | Watusimoto | it wouldn't be terribly hard to port, assuming the relevant bits of lua haven't changed that much |
| 22:26:54 | raptor | well... there one way to find out! |
| 22:26:57 | | raptor downloads sources |
| 22:27:22 | Watusimoto | but we'd need to create a patch from our version of luavec to theirs |
| 22:27:35 | raptor | no problem! |
| 22:27:37 | Watusimoto | I've modified it a bit, to make it more memoryefficient |
| 22:27:46 | Watusimoto | maybe we don't need those mods |
| 22:27:58 | Watusimoto | but they handle up to 4d vectors |
| 22:28:08 | Watusimoto | that's 4x64 bits |
| 22:28:12 | Watusimoto | I reduced it to 2 |
| 22:28:28 | raptor | so technically we're using lua-vec-2d |
| 22:28:39 | Watusimoto | and did some other stuff |
| 22:28:47 | Watusimoto | but it should be easily discernable with a diff |
| 22:28:53 | raptor | i'll make a good diff |
| 22:28:55 | Watusimoto | and I marked most of my changees |
| 22:29:03 | Watusimoto | with bf or bitfighter or something |
| 22:29:09 | Watusimoto | knowing this day would come |
| 22:29:26 | Watusimoto | if we port luavec to 5.2, we can publish that as a seperate project |
| 22:30:12 | Watusimoto | but this will also require a rewrite of some of our custom lua glue |
| 22:30:23 | Watusimoto | luckily, luaw has support for 5.2 |
| 22:30:35 | Watusimoto | and we could finally cut the cord on lunar |
| 22:30:50 | Watusimoto | which we still have lurking in the background |
| 22:39:38 | raptor | i've got your diff |
| 22:40:39 | raptor | here you go Watusimoto: http://sam6.25u.com/upload/bitfighter-lua-vec_lua-5.1.4.diff |
| 22:40:43 | raptor | nice and clean |
| 22:41:16 | raptor | smaller than thought.. |
| 22:41:21 | Watusimoto | so this is a diff between what and what? |
| 22:41:32 | raptor | between what we are using and base lua 5.1.4 |
| 22:41:41 | raptor | which is what lua-vec was based on |
| 22:42:20 | Watusimoto | so our lua mods |
| 22:42:24 | Watusimoto | including luavec |
| 22:42:28 | raptor | correct |
| 22:42:42 | raptor | so everything against normal Lua - hopefully to make it easier against 5.2 |
| 22:42:45 | Watusimoto | good -- this is then what we need to implement in 5.2 to get to where we are |
| 22:42:54 | raptor | yes |
| 22:42:58 | raptor | i just download 5.2.1 |
| 22:43:22 | | raptor dares to apply the patch directly... |
| 22:44:26 | raptor | oops, i didn't clean it properly.. |
| 22:44:34 | raptor | some directories are wonky |
| 22:45:36 | Watusimoto | is your patch tool smart enough to look for the correct context, even if the line nums have changed? |
| 22:45:44 | raptor | Watusimoto: that's the one: http://sam6.25u.com/upload/bitfighter-lua-vec_lua-5.1.4_rev2.diff |
| 22:45:51 | raptor | wel'll see... |
| 22:45:56 | raptor | yes, it's smartishy |
| 22:46:37 | Watusimoto | most of what I know changed in 5.2 is not relevant for luavec |
| 22:46:42 | Watusimoto | so it should be easy |
| 22:46:48 | raptor | output: http://pastie.org/6024820 |
| 22:46:57 | raptor | most applied! |
| 22:46:59 | Watusimoto | though I find the lua source inscrutable |
| 22:53:33 | raptor | hmmm... this might be harder than thought... some method names changed |
| 22:57:35 | Watusimoto | ok, cannot reproduce problem in 018 |
| 22:58:33 | Watusimoto | which may mean it's not lua being broken that's the issue |
| 23:04:46 | Watusimoto | ok, new plan, but not for tonight |
| 23:04:54 | Watusimoto | take the 018 code base, and apply luaw changes to it |
| 23:05:07 | Watusimoto | and see if the problem is in luaw or in non-luaw changes I've made |
| 23:06:09 | raptor | ok |
| 23:06:22 | raptor | i'm about 1/2 done applying changes to Lua 5.2 before a compile test.. |
| 23:11:11 | raptor | lots of different garbage collection methods... |
| 23:17:17 | Watusimoto | I think there are some luavec tests around you could try running on our modified luavec |
| 23:17:26 | Watusimoto | they should work in 5.1 or 5.2 |
| 23:17:36 | raptor | Watusimoto: i got everythings applied except 1 reject |
| 23:17:37 | Watusimoto | and that would let you see if you got the big parts right |
| 23:17:43 | Watusimoto | great! |
| 23:17:57 | raptor | this one... the class looks entirely rewritten |
| 23:18:04 | Watusimoto | oh, lucky |
| 23:18:47 | Watusimoto | the way handling multiple functions in a single L has changed a fair bit btwn 5.1 and 5.2 |
| 23:23:19 | raptor | got it applied! |
| 23:26:06 | raptor | now to fix compile errors |
| 23:26:08 | Watusimoto | excellent! |
| 23:32:29 | Watusimoto | ok, going to bed |
| 23:32:39 | Watusimoto | I'll be back on sunday |
| 23:32:42 | Watusimoto | bye |
| 23:32:43 | Watusimoto | ! |
| 23:32:55 | raptor | night! |
| 23:32:58 | raptor | have fun! |
| 23:41:42 | | Watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 23:45:50 | kaen | raptor, from what I gleaned you're converting lua 5.2 into a new bitfighter-specific lua-vec in the hopes that changes in GC will fix that crazy lua bug |
| 23:45:58 | kaen | if this is the case, god speed and good luck. |
| 23:47:29 | | kaen Quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:49:10 | raptor | thanks! |
| 23:49:14 | raptor | ... and bye! |
