#bitfighter IRC Log

IRC Log for 2013-03-14

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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01:07:56 BFLogBot Commit: 2ae33f523881 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Try a radical new look for loadout style menus [*] 
01:07:58 BFLogBot Commit: 9263da10f3bf | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Comment 
01:08:00 BFLogBot Commit: dfd18b73b8e0 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Remove unused function 
01:08:01 BFLogBot Commit: 1fbae554d1a4 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Simplify and remove confusing variable/method 
01:08:03 BFLogBot Commit: 910fe8bfedb4 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Formatting 
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04:42:29 Lamp89 nobody here except Nothing_Much
04:42:46 Lamp89 Nothing_Much?
04:42:56 Lamp89 no nothing much :(
04:43:02 Lamp89 :((((
04:43:17 Lamp89 \:(
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16:47:08 watusimoto just found this: http://www.cgal.org/Manual/latest/doc_html/cgal_manual/Straight_skeleton_2/Chapter_main.html  Look at 23.3.1 and 23.3.2 and think about the orbitron outline font :-)
16:47:36 raptor !!!
16:47:43 raptor i've been looking everywhere for something like that
16:47:58 watusimoto it's hard to find
16:48:04 watusimoto good morning, btw
16:48:09 raptor good day!
16:50:16 watusimoto did you see my loadout mods from last night?
16:50:44 raptor not yet - my laptop hard drive was failing and I've been reinstalling stuff...
16:50:53 watusimoto that sucks
16:51:07 raptor i caught it early and got everything off I needed
16:51:14 raptor but still have to reinstall OSes, etc..
16:51:24 watusimoto that's better news that in could be, I guess
16:51:29 raptor yes
16:51:37 watusimoto I'm not totally done, but it reflects my latest/best ideas
16:51:57 watusimoto which probably aren't all that great
16:52:17 raptor i'll test them now
16:52:23 watusimoto no hurry
16:52:25 raptor (then I have to go to a meeting for 1/2 hour..)
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17:00:39 raptor a layered window!
17:00:51 raptor people might not like that...
17:01:19 watusimoto I'm not positive I like it either
17:01:34 raptor it think it looks nice
17:01:40 watusimoto (by layered you mean the gray top?)
17:01:58 raptor but because you can't see through it, people might be upset that they have part of the screen obsured
17:02:08 watusimoto you can in fact see through it
17:02:15 watusimoto it has the same opacity as the rest of the menu
17:02:21 raptor not me:  http://sam6.25u.com/upload/5screenshot_7.png
17:02:26 raptor oh wait
17:02:30 raptor i can, dark monitor
17:02:37 watusimoto it's only 20% transparent
17:03:02 watusimoto the reason is that when yo fly over smething like a repair, it avoids the visual collision
17:03:03 raptor might not be enough..
17:03:22 watusimoto try it on a level with a bright object like a repair and see if you still think that
17:03:29 raptor dok
17:03:35 watusimoto but... that's a detail
17:03:57 watusimoto the only thing more I have planned is to (maybe) clip the upper right corner to give it a more "computery" look
17:04:33 watusimoto maybe I can look for other ways to set the title apart from the rest of the items
17:04:54 watusimoto maybe a light gray line would work
17:05:28 watusimoto I'm also working on a cure for the chat bar
17:05:40 watusimoto because I am now definitely not liking the animation
17:05:52 raptor haha
17:05:58 raptor yeah...  distracting
17:06:08 watusimoto I have something coded, but it doesn't work
17:06:45 watusimoto we'll see if I can fix it tonight
17:07:06 watusimoto in any case, I think the general form of the menu is pretty snazzy
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17:19:26 raptor i think it is, too - however it still seems it obscures too much
17:22:42 watusimoto well, we can tinker with the opacity
17:23:05 raptor i think we'd want the 'inward offset' part of that library
17:23:16 raptor (sorry looking at straight-skeleton code)
17:27:26 watusimoto rahter than skeletonize?
17:27:35 raptor hmm, not sure now
17:27:41 raptor because the output is still polygons
17:27:57 watusimoto the letters are very uniform in width...
17:29:45 raptor searching for 'straight skeleton' is yeilding loads of stuff now..
17:35:26 watusimoto it's all about the right terms!
17:38:27 raptor wait - i think i just found something in inkscape...
17:38:40 watusimoto I think you didn't
17:38:47 raptor potrace
17:38:50 watusimoto I have scoured the app several times
17:39:01 raptor has a 'centerline feature' (according to the docs)
17:39:46 raptor yeah i've been back to inkscape dozens of times..
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17:46:39 watusimoto ok, heading out... see you later!
17:46:43 raptor bye
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19:29:29 raptor happy  http://halftauday.com/ !
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19:31:45 bobdaduck sup dawgs
19:31:56 raptor hello
19:45:04 Watusimoto hi
19:45:12 Watusimoto ok, the new chat fader is much better
19:45:16 Watusimoto I got it to work
19:45:22 Watusimoto now to clean it up
19:52:07 raptor nothing like updating a Linux distro to take up all of your time!
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20:09:17 Watusimoto this is the parent:
20:09:18 Watusimoto    virtual S32 getActivationAnimationTime();          // Return 0 to disable animations
20:09:18 Watusimoto    S32 HelperMenu::getActivationAnimationTime() { return 150; }
20:09:22 Watusimoto and this is the child:
20:09:39 Watusimoto    S32 getActivationAnimationTime();
20:09:39 Watusimoto    S32 ChatHelper::getActivationAnimationTime() { return 50; }
20:09:48 raptor uh
20:09:56 Watusimoto can you see why the child's getActivationAnimationTime does not override?
20:10:08 Watusimoto why do I get 150 from the chathelper class???
20:10:26 raptor not a parent-child?
20:10:31 raptor spelling?
20:10:39 Watusimoto class ChatHelper : public HelperMenu
20:10:51 raptor full recompile!
20:10:55 Watusimoto already don!
20:10:57 Watusimoto done!
20:12:08 Watusimoto well, I can probably solve the problem via a totally different mechanism, as I don;t really like this function at all
20:12:18 Watusimoto the universe is sending me a message
20:12:35 Watusimoto (and if that statement is not self-important, I don't knwo what is!)
20:27:30 raptor maybe get rid of magic numbers and just use them as static const in their respective classes?
20:27:30 raptor i mean instead of method calls
20:35:15 Watusimoto vars can't override each other
20:35:18 Watusimoto only methods can
20:35:52 raptor does the parent class have a virtual destructor?
20:48:30 Watusimoto no
20:48:37 Watusimoto the problem is solved
20:48:55 Watusimoto I just refactored it a bit -- the new design is better, the old code is gone
20:49:03 raptor all classes with virtual methods need virtual destructors
20:49:08 raptor ok
20:49:31 Watusimoto there are no destructors at all in this case
20:49:41 Watusimoto and the problem happened during initiailziation
21:03:52 BFLogBot Commit: fd49b8f27a33 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: New chat bar animation 
21:05:17 BFLogBot Commit: 304a0bf4c1bb | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Go all black and more transparent for loadout menu 
21:06:14 raptor i like the chat menu!
21:06:44 Watusimoto yes, it's much better now
21:06:44 raptor and i like the tweaks to the loadout menu
21:06:49 Watusimoto still working on that
21:20:05 Watusimoto did they steal your teleporter idea?
21:20:06 Watusimoto http://www.ingress.com/
21:20:13 Watusimoto promo video, 0:07
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21:34:41 BFLogBot Commit: 63f701505e7a | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Updated loadout menu design 
21:35:43 Watusimoto screenshot http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/2680/screenshot4sz.png
21:39:40 raptor i like it!
21:39:47 raptor actually, that reminds me of freeorion
21:40:48 raptor except diagonal on wrong corner:  tschluensen@vater-gruppe.de
21:45:21 Watusimoto should I email that dude and ask to see a pic of the corner?
21:45:22 Watusimoto ;-)
21:45:34 raptor oh oops
21:45:37 raptor that from work...  uhh
21:45:41 raptor ignore please
21:45:44 raptor http://freeorion.org/images/b/bf/FreeOrion_GalaxyMap_SVN5355.png
21:45:45 Watusimoto done!
21:46:09 Watusimoto ah, they truncate 2 corners!
21:46:14 raptor yes
21:46:14 Watusimoto i considered that
21:46:18 Watusimoto also considered rounding
21:48:08 raptor i'm not sure rounding woudl fit very well...
21:48:16 raptor i like the angled corners though
21:49:12 Watusimoto i think so too
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21:59:38 raptor are you thinking of a UI overhaul?
22:01:05 Watusimoto just bits and peices here and there as they occur to me
22:01:37 Watusimoto trying to respond to criticism of the game;s appareance without changing the fundeamentals
22:01:46 raptor oh
22:01:53 raptor i found  invader alex on last night
22:02:05 Watusimoto I've been thinking about this loadout thing for a while -- since probably 018
22:02:36 raptor his one criticism was the penalty for being killed while typing:  a big black screen and loss of visual continuity of the gameplay
22:03:15 Watusimoto interesting
22:03:23 Watusimoto what is the alternative?
22:03:37 Watusimoto respawn?
22:03:41 raptor so i am now thinking:  instead of a black screen we do your shiney new semi-tranparent box just in the middle of teh screen
22:03:46 raptor no
22:04:00 Watusimoto then you've creaetd a pseudo observer mode, no?
22:04:05 raptor yes
22:04:09 raptor but just for the area
22:04:49 raptor i've look at what other games do (UT, UT2004)
22:05:03 raptor when you are killed, you do have to click to respawn, but they leave you looking at the area on the map
22:05:05 Watusimoto what if you could still see the level, but no ships?  objects could basically freeze
22:05:17 raptor you can still see players run by
22:05:42 Watusimoto and if you are in cmdrs map?
22:05:46 Watusimoto see everything?
22:06:09 raptor not sure...  just leave it as is with whatever is seeable, i guess
22:07:00 Watusimoto so then if I want to just watch, i can go into chat, and let myself be killed
22:07:12 raptor sure :)
22:07:28 Watusimoto then we should create a real observer mode
22:07:31 raptor anyways, i think he's right with the black screen breaking continuity of play
22:07:39 Watusimoto I agree with that as well
22:07:58 raptor a real observer mode is a step further:  a ghost object with no team can see everything
22:08:23 Watusimoto ok, well this would be pseudo team observer mode
22:08:31 raptor yeah, sort of
22:08:46 Watusimoto I guess I'm trying to say i don;t really like it in and of itself
22:09:06 Watusimoto but I do agree the black screen is not good
22:09:13 Watusimoto what aboud jsut showing the walls?
22:09:16 raptor you mean just being allowed to watch?
22:09:39 Watusimoto I don't want to create an incentive for people to let themselves be killed while chatting
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22:10:18 raptor so that brings up the question:  would it be an incentive?
22:10:19 Watusimoto I mean when you get killed, game objects fade from the screen, and you just see whatever walls you can see
22:10:32 Watusimoto if it were the only way to get into observer mode, yes
22:10:40 Watusimoto I would do it :-)
22:10:43 raptor well, 'limited observer' mode
22:10:50 Watusimoto better than none
22:10:58 raptor yes, but is that bad?
22:11:07 Watusimoto I think if we had a real observer mode, the incentive would be less
22:11:17 raptor because in practice (at least with FPS games) it's pretty harmless
22:11:27 raptor you see players go flying by..
22:11:38 Watusimoto observer mode in itself is not bad
22:11:42 raptor the only harm i think would be taking up a team slot
22:11:56 raptor and not doing anything...  but you're still locked to seeing just the current area
22:12:37 Watusimoto let me think about it a litttle
22:12:43 Watusimoto I do agree with your problem statement
22:12:47 raptor it's just because its different!  :)
22:12:55 Watusimoto ;-)
22:13:03 raptor see I had your exact same feelings until I looked at some FPS games..
22:14:04 raptor and realized it actually wasn't so bad
22:14:58 raptor one thing one of the games did (ut2004?): if a game was currently in progress, you were automatically an observer until you clicked to join, then it would add you to a team
22:15:12 raptor but that's the next level of observer mode
22:15:35 Watusimoto in observer mode, can you move around and see everything?
22:15:46 raptor yes
22:15:53 raptor fly through the air even
22:16:11 Watusimoto so you could scope out the enemy's base
22:16:24 raptor yep
22:16:45 raptor but if you joined, you were no longer an observer and couldn't become one anymore
22:16:56 Watusimoto you could quit and reconnect
22:17:38 Watusimoto not sure if you *would* or not
22:17:45 raptor yes you could - however the level load times make that somewhat difficult to do without losing lots of time...   however our game loads fast compared to 3D FPS environs
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22:49:45 Watusimoto I could see people doing that if they felt it gave them an advantage
22:50:03 Watusimoto not sure if the advantage would be real, though; you could always switch teams and scope things out
22:51:10 raptor yes, but that is for a full-fledged observer mode - and besides, anyone can see a base layout with commander's map anyways
22:51:24 raptor it *could* be useful for like large large dungeons
23:00:09 Watusimoto I don't really care about those one way or the other
23:00:18 raptor exactly
23:00:22 Watusimoto though I do realize that some people do ;-)
23:00:43 Watusimoto just a warning that my next checkin will have a new class fil
23:00:44 Watusimoto e
23:01:07 raptor ok
23:01:28 raptor i was trying to make a point that the utility of an exploit would be good for dungeons, thereby negating the concern that the exploit should matter that much  :)
23:02:42 Watusimoto yes, I concur
23:03:13 raptor on another topic - have you tried the new bouncer?
23:06:33 Watusimoto no
23:06:39 Watusimoto I suppose I should !
23:08:00 raptor the algorithm is:  on bounce add 500ms of lifetime, up to 10 increases
23:08:22 Watusimoto the gear icon looks good on quartz's new zc
23:08:29 Watusimoto fits well with round
23:08:37 raptor so the bouncer could stick around to 6.5 seconds (1.5 + 10*.5)
23:08:44 raptor yes
23:09:52 Watusimoto they go pretty far in an enclosed area
23:09:58 raptor yes
23:10:06 Watusimoto round walls are deadly for this thing!
23:10:22 raptor i was thinking of reducing it a bit...  or even adding less and less time for each bounce
23:10:37 raptor but you get a feel for the end effect..
23:11:22 Watusimoto I think maybe 5 or 6 insteadof 10 increases
23:11:30 raptor ok
23:11:36 Watusimoto they seem to stick around longer than you would expect in some cases
23:11:40 raptor yes
23:11:49 Watusimoto zc is a level where you can get them to bounce a lot
23:11:59 raptor oh yeah...
23:12:49 Watusimoto and maybe a limit on how much time can "accrue" at any point?  I can shoot them in a way that they bounce a bunch of times then go straight, and due to the bounces they go reaaaaaly far
23:13:12 Watusimoto so maybe once they hit some threshold they can accrue no more time until they fall below that threshold?
23:13:17 raptor ok
23:13:28 Watusimoto maybe 2 or 3 bounce bonuses at one time, if that makes sens?
23:13:29 raptor so maybe keep it at 1.5 seconds max from the last bounce
23:13:56 raptor which is the original life time
23:14:43 Watusimoto yeah, let's try that
23:14:52 Watusimoto you can get some wild paths!
23:14:59 raptor wow, that serpentine map is great
23:15:03 raptor bouncers everywhere!
23:16:15 Watusimoto yup
23:17:02 Watusimoto shoot them around a wall -- they get hug the inside of the curve and get lots of bonus time
23:17:19 raptor yeah, then come back and kill me...
23:17:27 raptor and continue on to the other side of the map
23:17:54 Watusimoto kill you even after you respawn!
23:20:52 SolumnMushroom has joined
23:21:53 SolumnMushroom Hello all!
23:22:01 Watusimoto hi
23:23:38 SolumnMushroom I found out that I can change the icon of my programs folder in engineering to the Bitfighter icon
23:24:02 Watusimoto :-)
23:46:10 raptor back later!
23:46:36 raptor Quit ()

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These logs were automatically created by BFLogBot on irc.freenode.net.

00:20:17		bobdaduck has joined
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01:07:56		BFLogBot Commit: 2ae33f523881 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Try a radical new look for loadout style menus [*]
01:07:58		BFLogBot Commit: 9263da10f3bf \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Comment
01:08:00		BFLogBot Commit: dfd18b73b8e0 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Remove unused function
01:08:01		BFLogBot Commit: 1fbae554d1a4 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Simplify and remove confusing variable/method
01:08:03		BFLogBot Commit: 910fe8bfedb4 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Formatting
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04:42:29	Lamp89	nobody here except Nothing_Much
04:42:46	Lamp89	Nothing_Much?
04:42:56	Lamp89	no nothing much :(
04:43:02	Lamp89	:((((
04:43:17	Lamp89	\:(
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16:47:08	watusimoto	just found this: http://www.cgal.org/Manual/latest/doc_html/cgal_manual/Straight_skeleton_2/Chapter_main.html Look at 23.3.1 and 23.3.2 and think about the orbitron outline font :-)
16:47:36	raptor	!!!
16:47:43	raptor	i've been looking everywhere for something like that
16:47:58	watusimoto	it's hard to find
16:48:04	watusimoto	good morning, btw
16:48:09	raptor	good day!
16:50:16	watusimoto	did you see my loadout mods from last night?
16:50:44	raptor	not yet - my laptop hard drive was failing and I've been reinstalling stuff...
16:50:53	watusimoto	that sucks
16:51:07	raptor	i caught it early and got everything off I needed
16:51:14	raptor	but still have to reinstall OSes, etc..
16:51:24	watusimoto	that's better news that in could be, I guess
16:51:29	raptor	yes
16:51:37	watusimoto	I'm not totally done, but it reflects my latest/best ideas
16:51:57	watusimoto	which probably aren't all that great
16:52:17	raptor	i'll test them now
16:52:23	watusimoto	no hurry
16:52:25	raptor	(then I have to go to a meeting for 1/2 hour..)
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17:00:39	raptor	a layered window!
17:00:51	raptor	people might not like that...
17:01:19	watusimoto	I'm not positive I like it either
17:01:34	raptor	it think it looks nice
17:01:40	watusimoto	(by layered you mean the gray top?)
17:01:58	raptor	but because you can't see through it, people might be upset that they have part of the screen obsured
17:02:08	watusimoto	you can in fact see through it
17:02:15	watusimoto	it has the same opacity as the rest of the menu
17:02:21	raptor	not me: http://sam6.25u.com/upload/5screenshot_7.png
17:02:26	raptor	oh wait
17:02:30	raptor	i can, dark monitor
17:02:37	watusimoto	it's only 20% transparent
17:03:02	watusimoto	the reason is that when yo fly over smething like a repair, it avoids the visual collision
17:03:03	raptor	might not be enough..
17:03:22	watusimoto	try it on a level with a bright object like a repair and see if you still think that
17:03:29	raptor	dok
17:03:35	watusimoto	but... that's a detail
17:03:57	watusimoto	the only thing more I have planned is to (maybe) clip the upper right corner to give it a more "computery" look
17:04:33	watusimoto	maybe I can look for other ways to set the title apart from the rest of the items
17:04:54	watusimoto	maybe a light gray line would work
17:05:28	watusimoto	I'm also working on a cure for the chat bar
17:05:40	watusimoto	because I am now definitely not liking the animation
17:05:52	raptor	haha
17:05:58	raptor	yeah... distracting
17:06:08	watusimoto	I have something coded, but it doesn't work
17:06:45	watusimoto	we'll see if I can fix it tonight
17:07:06	watusimoto	in any case, I think the general form of the menu is pretty snazzy
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17:19:26	raptor	i think it is, too - however it still seems it obscures too much
17:22:42	watusimoto	well, we can tinker with the opacity
17:23:05	raptor	i think we'd want the 'inward offset' part of that library
17:23:16	raptor	(sorry looking at straight-skeleton code)
17:27:26	watusimoto	rahter than skeletonize?
17:27:35	raptor	hmm, not sure now
17:27:41	raptor	because the output is still polygons
17:27:57	watusimoto	the letters are very uniform in width...
17:29:45	raptor	searching for 'straight skeleton' is yeilding loads of stuff now..
17:35:26	watusimoto	it's all about the right terms!
17:38:27	raptor	wait - i think i just found something in inkscape...
17:38:40	watusimoto	I think you didn't
17:38:47	raptor	potrace
17:38:50	watusimoto	I have scoured the app several times
17:39:01	raptor	has a 'centerline feature' (according to the docs)
17:39:46	raptor	yeah i've been back to inkscape dozens of times..
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17:46:39	watusimoto	ok, heading out... see you later!
17:46:43	raptor	bye
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19:17:44		Watusimoto has joined
19:29:29	raptor	happy http://halftauday.com/ !
19:30:36		bobdaduck has joined
19:31:45	bobdaduck	sup dawgs
19:31:56	raptor	hello
19:45:04	Watusimoto	hi
19:45:12	Watusimoto	ok, the new chat fader is much better
19:45:16	Watusimoto	I got it to work
19:45:22	Watusimoto	now to clean it up
19:52:07	raptor	nothing like updating a Linux distro to take up all of your time!
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20:09:17	Watusimoto	this is the parent:
20:09:18	Watusimoto	virtual S32 getActivationAnimationTime(); // Return 0 to disable animations
20:09:18	Watusimoto	S32 HelperMenu::getActivationAnimationTime() { return 150; }
20:09:22	Watusimoto	and this is the child:
20:09:39	Watusimoto	S32 getActivationAnimationTime();
20:09:39	Watusimoto	S32 ChatHelper::getActivationAnimationTime() { return 50; }
20:09:48	raptor	uh
20:09:56	Watusimoto	can you see why the child's getActivationAnimationTime does not override?
20:10:08	Watusimoto	why do I get 150 from the chathelper class???
20:10:26	raptor	not a parent-child?
20:10:31	raptor	spelling?
20:10:39	Watusimoto	class ChatHelper : public HelperMenu
20:10:51	raptor	full recompile!
20:10:55	Watusimoto	already don!
20:10:57	Watusimoto	done!
20:12:08	Watusimoto	well, I can probably solve the problem via a totally different mechanism, as I don;t really like this function at all
20:12:18	Watusimoto	the universe is sending me a message
20:12:35	Watusimoto	(and if that statement is not self-important, I don't knwo what is!)
20:27:30	raptor	maybe get rid of magic numbers and just use them as static const in their respective classes?
20:27:30	raptor	i mean instead of method calls
20:35:15	Watusimoto	vars can't override each other
20:35:18	Watusimoto	only methods can
20:35:52	raptor	does the parent class have a virtual destructor?
20:48:30	Watusimoto	no
20:48:37	Watusimoto	the problem is solved
20:48:55	Watusimoto	I just refactored it a bit -- the new design is better, the old code is gone
20:49:03	raptor	all classes with virtual methods need virtual destructors
20:49:08	raptor	ok
20:49:31	Watusimoto	there are no destructors at all in this case
20:49:41	Watusimoto	and the problem happened during initiailziation
21:03:52		BFLogBot Commit: fd49b8f27a33 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: New chat bar animation
21:05:17		BFLogBot Commit: 304a0bf4c1bb \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Go all black and more transparent for loadout menu
21:06:14	raptor	i like the chat menu!
21:06:44	Watusimoto	yes, it's much better now
21:06:44	raptor	and i like the tweaks to the loadout menu
21:06:49	Watusimoto	still working on that
21:20:05	Watusimoto	did they steal your teleporter idea?
21:20:06	Watusimoto	http://www.ingress.com/
21:20:13	Watusimoto	promo video, 0:07
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21:34:41		BFLogBot Commit: 63f701505e7a \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Updated loadout menu design
21:35:43	Watusimoto	screenshot http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/2680/screenshot4sz.png
21:39:40	raptor	i like it!
21:39:47	raptor	actually, that reminds me of freeorion
21:40:48	raptor	except diagonal on wrong corner: tschluensen@vater-gruppe.de
21:45:21	Watusimoto	should I email that dude and ask to see a pic of the corner?
21:45:22	Watusimoto	;-)
21:45:34	raptor	oh oops
21:45:37	raptor	that from work... uhh
21:45:41	raptor	ignore please
21:45:44	raptor	http://freeorion.org/images/b/bf/FreeOrion_GalaxyMap_SVN5355.png
21:45:45	Watusimoto	done!
21:46:09	Watusimoto	ah, they truncate 2 corners!
21:46:14	raptor	yes
21:46:14	Watusimoto	i considered that
21:46:18	Watusimoto	also considered rounding
21:48:08	raptor	i'm not sure rounding woudl fit very well...
21:48:16	raptor	i like the angled corners though
21:49:12	Watusimoto	i think so too
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21:59:38	raptor	are you thinking of a UI overhaul?
22:01:05	Watusimoto	just bits and peices here and there as they occur to me
22:01:37	Watusimoto	trying to respond to criticism of the game;s appareance without changing the fundeamentals
22:01:46	raptor	oh
22:01:53	raptor	i found invader alex on last night
22:02:05	Watusimoto	I've been thinking about this loadout thing for a while -- since probably 018
22:02:36	raptor	his one criticism was the penalty for being killed while typing: a big black screen and loss of visual continuity of the gameplay
22:03:15	Watusimoto	interesting
22:03:23	Watusimoto	what is the alternative?
22:03:37	Watusimoto	respawn?
22:03:41	raptor	so i am now thinking: instead of a black screen we do your shiney new semi-tranparent box just in the middle of teh screen
22:03:46	raptor	no
22:04:00	Watusimoto	then you've creaetd a pseudo observer mode, no?
22:04:05	raptor	yes
22:04:09	raptor	but just for the area
22:04:49	raptor	i've look at what other games do (UT, UT2004)
22:05:03	raptor	when you are killed, you do have to click to respawn, but they leave you looking at the area on the map
22:05:05	Watusimoto	what if you could still see the level, but no ships? objects could basically freeze
22:05:17	raptor	you can still see players run by
22:05:42	Watusimoto	and if you are in cmdrs map?
22:05:46	Watusimoto	see everything?
22:06:09	raptor	not sure... just leave it as is with whatever is seeable, i guess
22:07:00	Watusimoto	so then if I want to just watch, i can go into chat, and let myself be killed
22:07:12	raptor	sure :)
22:07:28	Watusimoto	then we should create a real observer mode
22:07:31	raptor	anyways, i think he's right with the black screen breaking continuity of play
22:07:39	Watusimoto	I agree with that as well
22:07:58	raptor	a real observer mode is a step further: a ghost object with no team can see everything
22:08:23	Watusimoto	ok, well this would be pseudo team observer mode
22:08:31	raptor	yeah, sort of
22:08:46	Watusimoto	I guess I'm trying to say i don;t really like it in and of itself
22:09:06	Watusimoto	but I do agree the black screen is not good
22:09:13	Watusimoto	what aboud jsut showing the walls?
22:09:16	raptor	you mean just being allowed to watch?
22:09:39	Watusimoto	I don't want to create an incentive for people to let themselves be killed while chatting
22:09:46		Darrel Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:10:18	raptor	so that brings up the question: would it be an incentive?
22:10:19	Watusimoto	I mean when you get killed, game objects fade from the screen, and you just see whatever walls you can see
22:10:32	Watusimoto	if it were the only way to get into observer mode, yes
22:10:40	Watusimoto	I would do it :-)
22:10:43	raptor	well, 'limited observer' mode
22:10:50	Watusimoto	better than none
22:10:58	raptor	yes, but is that bad?
22:11:07	Watusimoto	I think if we had a real observer mode, the incentive would be less
22:11:17	raptor	because in practice (at least with FPS games) it's pretty harmless
22:11:27	raptor	you see players go flying by..
22:11:38	Watusimoto	observer mode in itself is not bad
22:11:42	raptor	the only harm i think would be taking up a team slot
22:11:56	raptor	and not doing anything... but you're still locked to seeing just the current area
22:12:37	Watusimoto	let me think about it a litttle
22:12:43	Watusimoto	I do agree with your problem statement
22:12:47	raptor	it's just because its different! :)
22:12:55	Watusimoto	;-)
22:13:03	raptor	see I had your exact same feelings until I looked at some FPS games..
22:14:04	raptor	and realized it actually wasn't so bad
22:14:58	raptor	one thing one of the games did (ut2004?): if a game was currently in progress, you were automatically an observer until you clicked to join, then it would add you to a team
22:15:12	raptor	but that's the next level of observer mode
22:15:35	Watusimoto	in observer mode, can you move around and see everything?
22:15:46	raptor	yes
22:15:53	raptor	fly through the air even
22:16:11	Watusimoto	so you could scope out the enemy's base
22:16:24	raptor	yep
22:16:45	raptor	but if you joined, you were no longer an observer and couldn't become one anymore
22:16:56	Watusimoto	you could quit and reconnect
22:17:38	Watusimoto	not sure if you would or not
22:17:45	raptor	yes you could - however the level load times make that somewhat difficult to do without losing lots of time... however our game loads fast compared to 3D FPS environs
22:21:35		bobdaduck Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
22:49:45	Watusimoto	I could see people doing that if they felt it gave them an advantage
22:50:03	Watusimoto	not sure if the advantage would be real, though; you could always switch teams and scope things out
22:51:10	raptor	yes, but that is for a full-fledged observer mode - and besides, anyone can see a base layout with commander's map anyways
22:51:24	raptor	it could be useful for like large large dungeons
23:00:09	Watusimoto	I don't really care about those one way or the other
23:00:18	raptor	exactly
23:00:22	Watusimoto	though I do realize that some people do ;-)
23:00:43	Watusimoto	just a warning that my next checkin will have a new class fil
23:00:44	Watusimoto	e
23:01:07	raptor	ok
23:01:28	raptor	i was trying to make a point that the utility of an exploit would be good for dungeons, thereby negating the concern that the exploit should matter that much :)
23:02:42	Watusimoto	yes, I concur
23:03:13	raptor	on another topic - have you tried the new bouncer?
23:06:33	Watusimoto	no
23:06:39	Watusimoto	I suppose I should !
23:08:00	raptor	the algorithm is: on bounce add 500ms of lifetime, up to 10 increases
23:08:22	Watusimoto	the gear icon looks good on quartz's new zc
23:08:29	Watusimoto	fits well with round
23:08:37	raptor	so the bouncer could stick around to 6.5 seconds (1.5 + 10*.5)
23:08:44	raptor	yes
23:09:52	Watusimoto	they go pretty far in an enclosed area
23:09:58	raptor	yes
23:10:06	Watusimoto	round walls are deadly for this thing!
23:10:22	raptor	i was thinking of reducing it a bit... or even adding less and less time for each bounce
23:10:37	raptor	but you get a feel for the end effect..
23:11:22	Watusimoto	I think maybe 5 or 6 insteadof 10 increases
23:11:30	raptor	ok
23:11:36	Watusimoto	they seem to stick around longer than you would expect in some cases
23:11:40	raptor	yes
23:11:49	Watusimoto	zc is a level where you can get them to bounce a lot
23:11:59	raptor	oh yeah...
23:12:49	Watusimoto	and maybe a limit on how much time can "accrue" at any point? I can shoot them in a way that they bounce a bunch of times then go straight, and due to the bounces they go reaaaaaly far
23:13:12	Watusimoto	so maybe once they hit some threshold they can accrue no more time until they fall below that threshold?
23:13:17	raptor	ok
23:13:28	Watusimoto	maybe 2 or 3 bounce bonuses at one time, if that makes sens?
23:13:29	raptor	so maybe keep it at 1.5 seconds max from the last bounce
23:13:56	raptor	which is the original life time
23:14:43	Watusimoto	yeah, let's try that
23:14:52	Watusimoto	you can get some wild paths!
23:14:59	raptor	wow, that serpentine map is great
23:15:03	raptor	bouncers everywhere!
23:16:15	Watusimoto	yup
23:17:02	Watusimoto	shoot them around a wall -- they get hug the inside of the curve and get lots of bonus time
23:17:19	raptor	yeah, then come back and kill me...
23:17:27	raptor	and continue on to the other side of the map
23:17:54	Watusimoto	kill you even after you respawn!
23:20:52		SolumnMushroom has joined
23:21:53	SolumnMushroom	Hello all!
23:22:01	Watusimoto	hi
23:23:38	SolumnMushroom	I found out that I can change the icon of my programs folder in engineering to the Bitfighter icon
23:24:02	Watusimoto	:-)
23:46:10	raptor	back later!
23:46:36		raptor Quit ()