#bitfighter IRC Log

IRC Log for 2013-04-21

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

00:00:01 Fordcars_ powerpc-apple-darwin9-gcc-4.0.1: no input files
00:00:12 Fordcars_ oops sorry
00:01:20 Watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
00:02:40 Fordcars_ Command /Developper/usr/bin/gcc-4.0 failed with exit code 1 ---- the only build error I am getting
00:08:54 Fordcars_ oh, I am missing triangle
00:10:31 raptor that's because its gone
00:10:35 raptor replaced
00:10:44 Fordcars_ yeah :P
00:10:52 Fordcars_ I am "Clean Building"
00:10:57 Fordcars_ it might help
00:11:06 Fordcars_ and it did! yeeeaaahhhh
00:11:12 Fordcars_ thanks
00:23:13 Fordcars_ oh actually, it didn't reapair it
01:07:14 Fordcars_ heh
01:51:13 koda Quit (Quit: k thx bai)
01:51:18 Fordcars_ Quit (Quit: Leaving)
02:30:23 raptor Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
02:33:18 SolumnMushroom has joined
02:33:49 SolumnMushroom I downgraded from Ubuntu 12.10 to 12.04.2
02:34:09 SolumnMushroom And now, all is smooth
02:34:43 SolumnMushroom Except for one vital thing
02:44:11 raptor has joined
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03:03:14 SolumnMushroom Wi-fi is broken on the install...
03:03:28 raptor Quit ()
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03:50:45 SolumnMushroom Goodnight all!  Tomorrow, Wi-Fi fixes.  Lots and lots of Wi-Fi fixes...  :P
03:50:54 raptor night!
03:51:01 SolumnMushroom Quit (Quit: Leaving)
04:23:48 BFLogBot Commit: 86cd6e011256 | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Fix compiling in Linux 
04:41:06 BFLogBot Commit: a7d26d6b5196 | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: New algorithm for feeding holes to poly2tri.  This speeds poly2tri up even more and in some cases is faster than Triangle was. 
04:41:07 BFLogBot Commit: 415ca326be7c | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Use the faster polygon-contains-point algorithm (about twice as fast!) for the rest of Bitfighter 
04:43:01 raptor that last algorithm was an amazing find
05:45:30 BFLogBot Commit: bbdc6e77f66d | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Fix crash when changing a level and Level Info was displayed.  I'm not sure if this is the right fix.. 
05:53:53 raptor night!
05:54:13 raptor Quit ()
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20:20:06 BFLogBot Commit: e139f9a6c0a0 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Better warning fix 
20:20:08 BFLogBot Commit: 1cad6e62e387 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Formatting 
20:20:09 BFLogBot Commit: 8e0f5a4c3db3 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Fix warning 
20:20:11 BFLogBot Commit: 1620f4c373da | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Skeleton for in-game disovery help system 
20:20:12 BFLogBot Commit: 12f376bba91f | Author: watusimoto  | Message: HelpBubbles are a little more refined now... like they actually look vaguely like what they should look like 
20:20:44 Watusimoto_ just a little more work, and I can give you a demo of what I'm thinking as the replacement for the tutorial level
20:26:58 raptor ok
20:27:03 raptor uhh..  help bubbles?
20:27:17 raptor is curious
20:27:53 Watusimoto_ go set your loadout, for a super preview
20:28:00 raptor also I can't believe vc++ 2010 still does *not* have support for C99
20:28:13 Watusimoto_ it never will, by design
20:28:27 raptor what design is that??
20:28:27 Watusimoto_ though it does support many c99 features
20:28:44 raptor no C at all?  only c++?
20:28:45 Watusimoto_ microsoft chose not to support that
20:28:50 raptor ah
20:29:04 Watusimoto_ or sorry, I thought you meant c++99 or whatever the pre 11 standard is
20:29:13 raptor no, i mean C 99
20:29:16 raptor like
20:29:22 raptor having dynamic arrays
20:29:28 Watusimoto_ no comment on that
20:31:58 raptor is HelpBubble client-only class?
20:32:41 Watusimoto_ yes
20:32:49 Watusimoto_ it's in the ui namespace!
20:33:02 raptor oh yeah..
20:33:04 raptor thanks
20:33:19 Watusimoto_ the help system will be entirely client based, I think
20:33:30 Watusimoto_ though we might be able to expand it if need be
20:33:31 BFLogBot Commit: 1fef81ab076e | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Fix compiling in Linux 
20:33:48 raptor do something useful!
20:33:50 raptor haha
20:35:14 kaen added 102 changesets with 387 changes to 145 files
20:35:22 kaen it's been a while since I pulled...
20:35:50 raptor hi kaen!
20:35:52 kaen hello
20:38:59 Watusimoto_ yeah, I changed a lot
20:39:21 Watusimoto_ I went on a bit of a code cleanup rampage after your complaints about trying to build a test case
20:39:36 Watusimoto_ lots more to do, but some things should be better
20:39:43 raptor rampage!
20:39:50 Watusimoto_ I'll continue to plink away at it from time to time
20:39:56 raptor i'm still obsessed with the triangulation stuff...
20:39:58 Watusimoto_ I have a plan all worked out
20:40:04 Watusimoto_ how's that coming?
20:40:06 raptor I've delved deeper into the poly2tri algo
20:40:16 LordDVG Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
20:40:34 raptor well, I implemented a hole-heirarch scheme that got another 10-30% in speed for common cases
20:41:17 raptor but I've been studying poly2tri itself and it seems like it could be even waay more effecient, with everything done in one pass
20:41:34 raptor i don't know why, but every once in a while I really latch onto algorithm work like this..
20:46:13 kaen I can not get the in-game HUD to render any text
20:46:29 raptor fonts dir soft linked into the exe dir?
20:46:35 kaen yes
20:46:43 kaen exe/fonts -> resource/fonts
20:46:53 raptor hmm...
20:47:18 kaen the boxes are collapsed as if the font's width is zero
20:47:32 raptor yeah, that happens when the fonts don't load
20:48:59 Watusimoto_ maybe we need an F7 page to show if the fonts are loaded
21:07:50 raptor actually - i just duplicated that with a fresh clone...  i wonder what's happening..
21:18:34 raptor i'll add the fonts dir...
21:30:44 raptor almost got it fixed kaen..
21:42:30 raptor actually this was a good deficiency to find..
21:42:39 raptor fontsdir was not in the folder manager yet
21:43:24 raptor also help bubbles...
21:43:54 raptor Watusimoto_: you're working more on the help bubbles?
21:44:02 Watusimoto_ yes
21:44:10 raptor ok, then I reserve judgement
21:44:28 Watusimoto_ please do, at least until the next checkin
21:44:35 Watusimoto_ then we can talk
21:44:41 raptor ok  :)
21:44:44 Watusimoto_ and you can vent
21:44:49 raptor ha
21:49:38 BFLogBot Commit: db3d41d85fc9 | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Add fonts dir to our folder system and use it in FontManager.  Show it on the diagnostics screen. 
21:49:43 raptor yay, ok kaen, font issue resolved
21:53:04 Watusimoto_ ok, here it comes
21:53:08 raptor oh boy!
21:53:13 Watusimoto_ so this breaks the loadout help bubble
21:53:14 BFLogBot Commit: 91e74128b7cf | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Whitespace 
21:53:16 BFLogBot Commit: 8e2bf79acadc | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Fix help 
21:53:17 BFLogBot Commit: 8fde567226a2 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Show help bubble when approaching a health item 
21:53:21 BFLogBot Commit: 17e0b35b46eb | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Merge 
21:53:24 Watusimoto_ but now when you approach a health item, a help bubble appears
21:53:35 Watusimoto_ it waits 10 seconds then will do it again
21:53:46 Watusimoto_ in reality, it would probably just show it once and then never again
21:54:11 Watusimoto_ the idea is to show people how to play the game as they go, step-by-step, as they encounter new things
21:54:36 Watusimoto_ we can discuss the details of making it look better later; for now, I mainly want to validate the concept
21:54:45 raptor ok
21:54:48 raptor compililng..
21:54:50 Watusimoto_ there is some ugly hacky code in there for the moment
21:55:00 Watusimoto_ but it will be cleaned up if we decide we like the idea
21:55:13 Watusimoto_ so to test, fly over a health item
21:55:24 Watusimoto_ you can repeat it 10 seconds later to see it again
21:55:38 raptor loadout warning shows in the middle of the map
21:55:54 Watusimoto_ as I said, that's broken
21:56:05 Watusimoto_ it should be anchored to a fixed position on the screen
21:56:09 Watusimoto_ not a map location
21:56:30 Watusimoto_ so we'd have some items at fixed screen locations, and some anchored to items in game
21:56:38 raptor ok
21:56:39 Watusimoto_ the health pack is an example of the latter
21:56:49 Watusimoto_ the loadout is a (broken) example of the former
21:56:59 raptor i like it - look and feel has a ways to go, I think, but good concept
21:57:04 Watusimoto_ yes
21:57:07 Watusimoto_ of course
21:57:23 Watusimoto_ so we'd probably start with movement keys, followed by shooting, then module activation
21:57:30 raptor also, what about managing the system?  e.g. turning the bubbles on/off
21:57:35 Watusimoto_ then when the user changes loadout a message there
21:57:43 Watusimoto_ yes, there will be a way to disable them
21:57:52 Watusimoto_ they'd only be activated the first time you played
21:58:03 Watusimoto_ each would be shown once, then never again
21:58:36 Watusimoto_ that's the idea, anyway
21:58:45 raptor ok
21:58:56 Watusimoto_ so... vent away :-)
21:59:11 raptor i remember once we discussed using a scripted tutorial, do you still think that would be good?
21:59:17 Watusimoto_ I don't know
21:59:34 Watusimoto_ this could be hooked into that; we could have server side tirggers for creating the help bubbles
21:59:48 raptor my only issues are with the look-and-feel - not very retro yet, it seems
21:59:49 Watusimoto_ my thinking has changed a bit since seeing those videos
21:59:57 Watusimoto_ no, not at all
22:00:06 Watusimoto_ it is my first idea, not refined at all
22:00:22 Watusimoto_ I don't like it, for what it's worth
22:00:24 raptor baby steps..
22:00:55 Watusimoto_ kaen:  when you get a chance, take a look at let me know your opinion
22:01:02 Watusimoto_ of the general concept, that is
22:01:12 raptor so you're working on the help bubbles; what is the most useful ideas to make the game more friendly?
22:01:20 raptor the *next most useful
22:01:26 raptor bot manager?
22:01:27 Watusimoto_ robot manager?
22:01:31 Watusimoto_ yes
22:01:33 raptor ha
22:01:37 raptor hmm...  ok
22:01:39 Watusimoto_ I think we should have two tiers
22:01:50 Watusimoto_ 1) a simple how many bots?
22:02:01 Watusimoto_ that many bots would be added to every level until changed
22:02:10 Watusimoto_ a second tier might ask about which bots and params and such
22:02:27 Watusimoto_ but I think we need a simple way to get bots into a game without much mucking around
22:03:01 Watusimoto_ I have a radical idea for the help bubbles; not terribly retro (in our sense) but possibly quite funny and therefore maybe attention getting
22:03:11 raptor let me get you some screenshots..
22:03:17 Watusimoto_ and that is to have the help bubbles accompanied by Clippy
22:03:34 Watusimoto_ you know you like that idea!
22:03:35 kaen Shippy
22:03:42 Watusimoto_ HA
22:03:45 Watusimoto_ ha
22:04:29 raptor http://sam6.25u.com/upload/2snapshot4.png
22:04:40 raptor http://sam6.25u.com/upload/2snapshot5.png
22:04:42 raptor ^^ for ideas
22:05:55 raptor NO CLIPPY
22:05:59 Watusimoto_ probably too complex
22:06:14 Watusimoto_ the first screen could be our tier 2 screen
22:06:39 Watusimoto_ though I do like the don't get cocky bit
22:07:01 raptor I was thinking more along the lines of just adding a part under 'host game' to specify bots
22:07:26 raptor oh, but yeah...  The skill stuff is much more complex than what I thought
22:07:56 raptor i wasn't thinking of having an overall skill,  rather bot profiles, with which you could adjust certain things like offense/defense
22:08:19 Watusimoto_ auto skill adjust... that might be interesting
22:09:03 Watusimoto_ maybe we could use kaen's suggestion of querying the bots to see what parameters they want to use
22:09:12 raptor oh yeah,  if they keep dying against you, they go up a skill level...  until you lose every time
22:09:28 Watusimoto_ but I think as a first cut, just asking about the number of bots would be a good start
22:09:43 Watusimoto_ that probably right on the hosting screen
22:09:57 Watusimoto_ and maybe also on the first tier Options screen
22:10:03 Watusimoto_ (from in game
22:10:05 Watusimoto_ )
22:10:19 Watusimoto_ or maybe a Bots menu item with a sub menu on the Options screen
22:10:42 Watusimoto_ I also think we should use the gradient fill in that menu
22:11:17 raptor oooo
22:11:20 Watusimoto_ I'm heading to bed in a few minutes
22:11:21 raptor yeah, the fancy box?
22:11:27 Watusimoto_ sure!
22:11:36 raptor fancy box around all menus!
22:11:39 Watusimoto_ maybe I could use that in my popups
22:11:43 raptor yeah
22:11:51 Watusimoto_ maybe add some bolts
22:11:54 raptor so an honest question
22:11:56 Watusimoto_ vector bolts, that is
22:12:16 raptor after our entire UI change...  will our game still be considered retro at all?
22:12:22 Watusimoto_ I think so
22:12:26 raptor because, retro is ugly, right?  :)
22:12:32 Watusimoto_ the graphics are still asteroid-like
22:12:42 Watusimoto_ and will remain so
22:12:55 raptor so as long as we have asteroids, we're good?
22:13:04 raptor (that was in jest)
22:13:09 Watusimoto_ and as long as they look like asteroids, and feel in place in the game, yes
22:13:16 raptor haha ok
22:13:21 Watusimoto_ that might be a good test
22:13:33 Watusimoto_ if they start looking a bit out of keeping with the rest of the game, we've erred
22:13:45 Watusimoto_ but nothing we;ve done changes that
22:13:57 Watusimoto_ in fact, the roman font doesn't really look very retro at all
22:14:00 raptor the teleporters seem out of place still...
22:14:04 Watusimoto_ yes, I concur
22:14:07 raptor but I'm used to them
22:14:11 Watusimoto_ yes
22:14:29 Watusimoto_ maybe we can revisit your teleporter remake
22:14:46 raptor oh yeah...  i have that diff lying around sometime...
22:14:51 raptor somewhere
22:14:58 raptor 's brain isn't fully here
22:15:37 raptor so start with a simple bots-in-game option in the hosting menu?
22:16:03 Watusimoto_ http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/spacewar/spacewar2.htm
22:16:09 Watusimoto_ scroll down to the asteroids screen
22:16:15 Watusimoto_ (about 1/3)
22:16:19 raptor I've wondered if we need to make the hosting menu sub-directoried..
22:16:23 Watusimoto_ that's what retro text looks like
22:16:30 Watusimoto_ maaybe
22:16:37 Watusimoto_ but I hope not!
22:16:54 raptor yeah, balance between options and ease
22:17:15 raptor ALL CAPS
22:18:19 Watusimoto_ lots of good retro vector games on that site
22:18:28 raptor hey look...  star castle!
22:19:02 Watusimoto_ ok, well, good night!
22:19:06 raptor good night
22:19:13 Watusimoto_ PS You should try playing star castle sometime
22:19:23 raptor i stink at all games
22:19:25 raptor but ok
22:22:16 raptor installing mame...
22:24:02 Watusimoto_ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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These logs were automatically created by BFLogBot on irc.freenode.net.

00:00:01	Fordcars_	powerpc-apple-darwin9-gcc-4.0.1: no input files
00:00:12	Fordcars_	oops sorry
00:01:20		Watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
00:02:40	Fordcars_	Command /Developper/usr/bin/gcc-4.0 failed with exit code 1 ---- the only build error I am getting
00:08:54	Fordcars_	oh, I am missing triangle
00:10:31	raptor	that's because its gone
00:10:35	raptor	replaced
00:10:44	Fordcars_	yeah :P
00:10:52	Fordcars_	I am "Clean Building"
00:10:57	Fordcars_	it might help
00:11:06	Fordcars_	and it did! yeeeaaahhhh
00:11:12	Fordcars_	thanks
00:23:13	Fordcars_	oh actually, it didn't reapair it
01:07:14	Fordcars_	heh
01:51:13		koda Quit (Quit: k thx bai)
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02:30:23		raptor Quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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02:33:49	SolumnMushroom	I downgraded from Ubuntu 12.10 to 12.04.2
02:34:09	SolumnMushroom	And now, all is smooth
02:34:43	SolumnMushroom	Except for one vital thing
02:44:11		raptor has joined
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03:03:14	SolumnMushroom	Wi-fi is broken on the install...
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03:50:45	SolumnMushroom	Goodnight all! Tomorrow, Wi-Fi fixes. Lots and lots of Wi-Fi fixes... :P
03:50:54	raptor	night!
03:51:01		SolumnMushroom Quit (Quit: Leaving)
04:23:48		BFLogBot Commit: 86cd6e011256 \| Author: buckyballreaction \| Message: Fix compiling in Linux
04:41:06		BFLogBot Commit: a7d26d6b5196 \| Author: buckyballreaction \| Message: New algorithm for feeding holes to poly2tri. This speeds poly2tri up even more and in some cases is faster than Triangle was.
04:41:07		BFLogBot Commit: 415ca326be7c \| Author: buckyballreaction \| Message: Use the faster polygon-contains-point algorithm (about twice as fast!) for the rest of Bitfighter
04:43:01	raptor	that last algorithm was an amazing find
05:45:30		BFLogBot Commit: bbdc6e77f66d \| Author: buckyballreaction \| Message: Fix crash when changing a level and Level Info was displayed. I'm not sure if this is the right fix..
05:53:53	raptor	night!
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20:20:06		BFLogBot Commit: e139f9a6c0a0 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Better warning fix
20:20:08		BFLogBot Commit: 1cad6e62e387 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Formatting
20:20:09		BFLogBot Commit: 8e0f5a4c3db3 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Fix warning
20:20:11		BFLogBot Commit: 1620f4c373da \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Skeleton for in-game disovery help system
20:20:12		BFLogBot Commit: 12f376bba91f \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: HelpBubbles are a little more refined now... like they actually look vaguely like what they should look like
20:20:44	Watusimoto_	just a little more work, and I can give you a demo of what I'm thinking as the replacement for the tutorial level
20:26:58	raptor	ok
20:27:03	raptor	uhh.. help bubbles?
20:27:17		raptor is curious
20:27:53	Watusimoto_	go set your loadout, for a super preview
20:28:00	raptor	also I can't believe vc++ 2010 still does not have support for C99
20:28:13	Watusimoto_	it never will, by design
20:28:27	raptor	what design is that??
20:28:27	Watusimoto_	though it does support many c99 features
20:28:44	raptor	no C at all? only c++?
20:28:45	Watusimoto_	microsoft chose not to support that
20:28:50	raptor	ah
20:29:04	Watusimoto_	or sorry, I thought you meant c++99 or whatever the pre 11 standard is
20:29:13	raptor	no, i mean C 99
20:29:16	raptor	like
20:29:22	raptor	having dynamic arrays
20:29:28	Watusimoto_	no comment on that
20:31:58	raptor	is HelpBubble client-only class?
20:32:41	Watusimoto_	yes
20:32:49	Watusimoto_	it's in the ui namespace!
20:33:02	raptor	oh yeah..
20:33:04	raptor	thanks
20:33:19	Watusimoto_	the help system will be entirely client based, I think
20:33:30	Watusimoto_	though we might be able to expand it if need be
20:33:31		BFLogBot Commit: 1fef81ab076e \| Author: buckyballreaction \| Message: Fix compiling in Linux
20:33:48	raptor	do something useful!
20:33:50	raptor	haha
20:35:14	kaen	added 102 changesets with 387 changes to 145 files
20:35:22	kaen	it's been a while since I pulled...
20:35:50	raptor	hi kaen!
20:35:52	kaen	hello
20:38:59	Watusimoto_	yeah, I changed a lot
20:39:21	Watusimoto_	I went on a bit of a code cleanup rampage after your complaints about trying to build a test case
20:39:36	Watusimoto_	lots more to do, but some things should be better
20:39:43	raptor	rampage!
20:39:50	Watusimoto_	I'll continue to plink away at it from time to time
20:39:56	raptor	i'm still obsessed with the triangulation stuff...
20:39:58	Watusimoto_	I have a plan all worked out
20:40:04	Watusimoto_	how's that coming?
20:40:06	raptor	I've delved deeper into the poly2tri algo
20:40:16		LordDVG Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
20:40:34	raptor	well, I implemented a hole-heirarch scheme that got another 10-30% in speed for common cases
20:41:17	raptor	but I've been studying poly2tri itself and it seems like it could be even waay more effecient, with everything done in one pass
20:41:34	raptor	i don't know why, but every once in a while I really latch onto algorithm work like this..
20:46:13	kaen	I can not get the in-game HUD to render any text
20:46:29	raptor	fonts dir soft linked into the exe dir?
20:46:35	kaen	yes
20:46:43	kaen	exe/fonts -> resource/fonts
20:46:53	raptor	hmm...
20:47:18	kaen	the boxes are collapsed as if the font's width is zero
20:47:32	raptor	yeah, that happens when the fonts don't load
20:48:59	Watusimoto_	maybe we need an F7 page to show if the fonts are loaded
21:07:50	raptor	actually - i just duplicated that with a fresh clone... i wonder what's happening..
21:18:34	raptor	i'll add the fonts dir...
21:30:44	raptor	almost got it fixed kaen..
21:42:30	raptor	actually this was a good deficiency to find..
21:42:39	raptor	fontsdir was not in the folder manager yet
21:43:24	raptor	also help bubbles...
21:43:54	raptor	Watusimoto_: you're working more on the help bubbles?
21:44:02	Watusimoto_	yes
21:44:10	raptor	ok, then I reserve judgement
21:44:28	Watusimoto_	please do, at least until the next checkin
21:44:35	Watusimoto_	then we can talk
21:44:41	raptor	ok :)
21:44:44	Watusimoto_	and you can vent
21:44:49	raptor	ha
21:49:38		BFLogBot Commit: db3d41d85fc9 \| Author: buckyballreaction \| Message: Add fonts dir to our folder system and use it in FontManager. Show it on the diagnostics screen.
21:49:43	raptor	yay, ok kaen, font issue resolved
21:53:04	Watusimoto_	ok, here it comes
21:53:08	raptor	oh boy!
21:53:13	Watusimoto_	so this breaks the loadout help bubble
21:53:14		BFLogBot Commit: 91e74128b7cf \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Whitespace
21:53:16		BFLogBot Commit: 8e2bf79acadc \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Fix help
21:53:17		BFLogBot Commit: 8fde567226a2 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Show help bubble when approaching a health item
21:53:21		BFLogBot Commit: 17e0b35b46eb \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Merge
21:53:24	Watusimoto_	but now when you approach a health item, a help bubble appears
21:53:35	Watusimoto_	it waits 10 seconds then will do it again
21:53:46	Watusimoto_	in reality, it would probably just show it once and then never again
21:54:11	Watusimoto_	the idea is to show people how to play the game as they go, step-by-step, as they encounter new things
21:54:36	Watusimoto_	we can discuss the details of making it look better later; for now, I mainly want to validate the concept
21:54:45	raptor	ok
21:54:48	raptor	compililng..
21:54:50	Watusimoto_	there is some ugly hacky code in there for the moment
21:55:00	Watusimoto_	but it will be cleaned up if we decide we like the idea
21:55:13	Watusimoto_	so to test, fly over a health item
21:55:24	Watusimoto_	you can repeat it 10 seconds later to see it again
21:55:38	raptor	loadout warning shows in the middle of the map
21:55:54	Watusimoto_	as I said, that's broken
21:56:05	Watusimoto_	it should be anchored to a fixed position on the screen
21:56:09	Watusimoto_	not a map location
21:56:30	Watusimoto_	so we'd have some items at fixed screen locations, and some anchored to items in game
21:56:38	raptor	ok
21:56:39	Watusimoto_	the health pack is an example of the latter
21:56:49	Watusimoto_	the loadout is a (broken) example of the former
21:56:59	raptor	i like it - look and feel has a ways to go, I think, but good concept
21:57:04	Watusimoto_	yes
21:57:07	Watusimoto_	of course
21:57:23	Watusimoto_	so we'd probably start with movement keys, followed by shooting, then module activation
21:57:30	raptor	also, what about managing the system? e.g. turning the bubbles on/off
21:57:35	Watusimoto_	then when the user changes loadout a message there
21:57:43	Watusimoto_	yes, there will be a way to disable them
21:57:52	Watusimoto_	they'd only be activated the first time you played
21:58:03	Watusimoto_	each would be shown once, then never again
21:58:36	Watusimoto_	that's the idea, anyway
21:58:45	raptor	ok
21:58:56	Watusimoto_	so... vent away :-)
21:59:11	raptor	i remember once we discussed using a scripted tutorial, do you still think that would be good?
21:59:17	Watusimoto_	I don't know
21:59:34	Watusimoto_	this could be hooked into that; we could have server side tirggers for creating the help bubbles
21:59:48	raptor	my only issues are with the look-and-feel - not very retro yet, it seems
21:59:49	Watusimoto_	my thinking has changed a bit since seeing those videos
21:59:57	Watusimoto_	no, not at all
22:00:06	Watusimoto_	it is my first idea, not refined at all
22:00:22	Watusimoto_	I don't like it, for what it's worth
22:00:24	raptor	baby steps..
22:00:55	Watusimoto_	kaen: when you get a chance, take a look at let me know your opinion
22:01:02	Watusimoto_	of the general concept, that is
22:01:12	raptor	so you're working on the help bubbles; what is the most useful ideas to make the game more friendly?
22:01:20	raptor	the *next most useful
22:01:26	raptor	bot manager?
22:01:27	Watusimoto_	robot manager?
22:01:31	Watusimoto_	yes
22:01:33	raptor	ha
22:01:37	raptor	hmm... ok
22:01:39	Watusimoto_	I think we should have two tiers
22:01:50	Watusimoto_	1) a simple how many bots?
22:02:01	Watusimoto_	that many bots would be added to every level until changed
22:02:10	Watusimoto_	a second tier might ask about which bots and params and such
22:02:27	Watusimoto_	but I think we need a simple way to get bots into a game without much mucking around
22:03:01	Watusimoto_	I have a radical idea for the help bubbles; not terribly retro (in our sense) but possibly quite funny and therefore maybe attention getting
22:03:11	raptor	let me get you some screenshots..
22:03:17	Watusimoto_	and that is to have the help bubbles accompanied by Clippy
22:03:34	Watusimoto_	you know you like that idea!
22:03:35	kaen	Shippy
22:03:42	Watusimoto_	HA
22:03:45	Watusimoto_	ha
22:04:29	raptor	http://sam6.25u.com/upload/2snapshot4.png
22:04:40	raptor	http://sam6.25u.com/upload/2snapshot5.png
22:04:42	raptor	^^ for ideas
22:05:55	raptor	NO CLIPPY
22:05:59	Watusimoto_	probably too complex
22:06:14	Watusimoto_	the first screen could be our tier 2 screen
22:06:39	Watusimoto_	though I do like the don't get cocky bit
22:07:01	raptor	I was thinking more along the lines of just adding a part under 'host game' to specify bots
22:07:26	raptor	oh, but yeah... The skill stuff is much more complex than what I thought
22:07:56	raptor	i wasn't thinking of having an overall skill, rather bot profiles, with which you could adjust certain things like offense/defense
22:08:19	Watusimoto_	auto skill adjust... that might be interesting
22:09:03	Watusimoto_	maybe we could use kaen's suggestion of querying the bots to see what parameters they want to use
22:09:12	raptor	oh yeah, if they keep dying against you, they go up a skill level... until you lose every time
22:09:28	Watusimoto_	but I think as a first cut, just asking about the number of bots would be a good start
22:09:43	Watusimoto_	that probably right on the hosting screen
22:09:57	Watusimoto_	and maybe also on the first tier Options screen
22:10:03	Watusimoto_	(from in game
22:10:05	Watusimoto_	)
22:10:19	Watusimoto_	or maybe a Bots menu item with a sub menu on the Options screen
22:10:42	Watusimoto_	I also think we should use the gradient fill in that menu
22:11:17	raptor	oooo
22:11:20	Watusimoto_	I'm heading to bed in a few minutes
22:11:21	raptor	yeah, the fancy box?
22:11:27	Watusimoto_	sure!
22:11:36	raptor	fancy box around all menus!
22:11:39	Watusimoto_	maybe I could use that in my popups
22:11:43	raptor	yeah
22:11:51	Watusimoto_	maybe add some bolts
22:11:54	raptor	so an honest question
22:11:56	Watusimoto_	vector bolts, that is
22:12:16	raptor	after our entire UI change... will our game still be considered retro at all?
22:12:22	Watusimoto_	I think so
22:12:26	raptor	because, retro is ugly, right? :)
22:12:32	Watusimoto_	the graphics are still asteroid-like
22:12:42	Watusimoto_	and will remain so
22:12:55	raptor	so as long as we have asteroids, we're good?
22:13:04	raptor	(that was in jest)
22:13:09	Watusimoto_	and as long as they look like asteroids, and feel in place in the game, yes
22:13:16	raptor	haha ok
22:13:21	Watusimoto_	that might be a good test
22:13:33	Watusimoto_	if they start looking a bit out of keeping with the rest of the game, we've erred
22:13:45	Watusimoto_	but nothing we;ve done changes that
22:13:57	Watusimoto_	in fact, the roman font doesn't really look very retro at all
22:14:00	raptor	the teleporters seem out of place still...
22:14:04	Watusimoto_	yes, I concur
22:14:07	raptor	but I'm used to them
22:14:11	Watusimoto_	yes
22:14:29	Watusimoto_	maybe we can revisit your teleporter remake
22:14:46	raptor	oh yeah... i have that diff lying around sometime...
22:14:51	raptor	somewhere
22:14:58		raptor 's brain isn't fully here
22:15:37	raptor	so start with a simple bots-in-game option in the hosting menu?
22:16:03	Watusimoto_	http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/spacewar/spacewar2.htm
22:16:09	Watusimoto_	scroll down to the asteroids screen
22:16:15	Watusimoto_	(about 1/3)
22:16:19	raptor	I've wondered if we need to make the hosting menu sub-directoried..
22:16:23	Watusimoto_	that's what retro text looks like
22:16:30	Watusimoto_	maaybe
22:16:37	Watusimoto_	but I hope not!
22:16:54	raptor	yeah, balance between options and ease
22:17:15	raptor	ALL CAPS
22:18:19	Watusimoto_	lots of good retro vector games on that site
22:18:28	raptor	hey look... star castle!
22:19:02	Watusimoto_	ok, well, good night!
22:19:06	raptor	good night
22:19:13	Watusimoto_	PS You should try playing star castle sometime
22:19:23	raptor	i stink at all games
22:19:25	raptor	but ok
22:22:16	raptor	installing mame...
22:24:02		Watusimoto_ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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