Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
| 00:00:17 | Watusimoto_ | kaen: where did the pleades pics come from? |
| 00:00:54 | kaen | the screenshots? |
| 00:00:55 | Watusimoto_ | raptor: those overrides can't be happening as they seem to be, otherwise we'd have no geometry |
| 00:00:57 | Watusimoto_ | yes |
| 00:01:02 | Watusimoto_ | the site looks really good, btw |
| 00:01:06 | kaen | I uploaded them myself |
| 00:01:23 | kaen | my graphics drivers are bunk, if you're wondering about the alpha blending |
| 00:01:32 | kaen | and thanks :) |
| 00:03:14 | Watusimoto_ | I think you should be able to click on the logo to go to the home page |
| 00:03:30 | Watusimoto_ | no one can look at a web page without a critique! |
| 00:03:55 | Watusimoto_ | and with thtat.... good night! |
| 00:08:44 | | BFLogBot Commit: 8ccab3eaaeb9 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Cleanup some pre-xmacro code |
| 00:08:45 | | BFLogBot Commit: b0e3c74c741c | Author: watusimoto | Message: Add some more help items, tidy up a bit |
| 00:08:47 | | BFLogBot Commit: 32435058a2cc | Author: watusimoto | Message: Only show each message once, prepare for storing seen list in the INI |
| 00:08:48 | | BFLogBot Commit: 7aecab391a13 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Get rid of really ugly naming convention that never caught on. Yuck! |
| 00:08:52 | | BFLogBot Commit: ae60404de6bd | Author: watusimoto | Message: Ack! How'd that sneak in??!? |
| 00:08:53 | | BFLogBot Commit: b8e3c5b199fd | Author: watusimoto | Message: Added help message to for when player enters first loadout zone... also made helpItem enum not a member of helpItemManager to avoid having to make ClientGame aware of the UI namespace... I think we should keep all UI stuff out of ClientGame. If we can. |
| 00:08:55 | | BFLogBot Commit: f40f9219b08d | Author: watusimoto | Message: Partial fix to loadout selection bug. Will test further. |
| 00:08:56 | | BFLogBot Commit: 36894fee71b8 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Merge |
| 00:08:58 | | BFLogBot Commit: a77dc35367d1 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Ack! Did it again. Phooey. Too tired. |
| 00:09:52 | kaen | pushed, and good night |
| 00:11:10 | Watusimoto_ | too many acks in these checkins |
| 00:15:38 | | Watusimoto_ Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 00:18:11 | raptor | night! |
| 00:35:18 | raptor | ok |
| 00:35:29 | raptor | i'm against text like this: "Loadout updated. Good job!" |
| 00:35:42 | raptor | we don't need to validate our players poor self-esteem |
| 00:35:54 | raptor | or do we? |
| 00:44:58 | raptor | Zaphod Beeblebrox |
| 00:47:56 | | Flynnn has joined |
| 00:49:23 | | BFLogBot Commit: d8c49c5f4e92 | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Enable -Wall in CMakeLists.txt |
| 00:49:32 | kaen | oops :x |
| 00:49:37 | raptor | hi kaen |
| 00:50:22 | raptor | I'm going through 20000 lines of warnings generated by -Woverloaded-virtual |
| 00:50:32 | raptor | to see if some are ones that really matter.. |
| 00:55:05 | kaen | good god |
| 00:55:27 | raptor | housekeeping time! |
| 00:55:39 | Flynnn | mother of god, did you say twenty thousand? |
| 00:55:41 | raptor | oh: HttpRequest.cpp:73:18: warning: unused variable ‘connectError’ [-Wunused-variable] |
| 00:55:49 | raptor | did you need that variable kaen? |
| 00:55:54 | kaen | hello Flynnn |
| 00:55:58 | kaen | not yet, raptor |
| 00:55:59 | Flynnn | Hello, kaen :) |
| 00:56:06 | raptor | ok, i'll leave it alone |
| 00:56:06 | | Flynnn Quit (Quit: Leaving) |
| 00:56:13 | raptor | by Flynn |
| 00:56:14 | kaen | I'll readd it after I check for connection errors... |
| 00:56:15 | raptor | *bye |
| 00:56:19 | raptor | ok |
| 00:56:49 | | Flynnn has joined |
| 00:56:51 | | Flynnn Quit (Client Quit) |
| 00:57:03 | | Flynnn has joined |
| 00:57:13 | Flynnn | lol, just disconnected myself typing wrong command |
| 01:28:36 | | Flynnn Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 01:30:24 | | SolumnMushroom has joined |
| 01:31:01 | SolumnMushroom | Hello all 2 other people! |
| 02:27:53 | | BFLogBot Commit: 9dd6a48265a1 | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Fix several compiler warnings thanks to -Wall. Several to go! |
| 02:27:55 | | BFLogBot Commit: 5200738b8dc2 | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: More compiler warnings |
| 02:42:14 | raptor | 19500 lines to go! |
| 02:54:50 | | BFLogBot Commit: e67ab5222ef4 | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Fix some possible const + virtual overload issues |
| 02:54:51 | | BFLogBot Commit: 821e3f4cc056 | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Fix more possible const + virtual overload problems |
| 02:58:15 | raptor | kaen: still around? |
| 02:58:47 | raptor | In your opinion, does this warning look like a problem?: http://pastie.org/7735909 |
| 02:58:57 | kaen | I'm here |
| 02:59:27 | raptor | (i'm starting to hate the pastie default view) |
| 03:00:33 | kaen | they need a stack trace syntax coloring scheme |
| 03:00:39 | raptor | yes |
| 03:00:46 | raptor | raw is better for these.. |
| 03:01:30 | raptor | so there are two signatures in BfObject: |
| 03:01:37 | raptor | virtual void render(S32 layerIndex); |
| 03:01:38 | raptor | virtual void render(); |
| 03:01:49 | raptor | but maybe it's smarter to rename one? |
| 03:02:30 | kaen | sorry, have to run :x |
| 03:02:35 | raptor | k |
| 03:36:17 | | bobdaduck_m has joined |
| 03:36:29 | bobdaduck_m | greetings, fresh dudes. |
| 03:36:35 | bobdaduck_m | Mind if I chill your crib? |
| 03:37:04 | | bobdaduck_m chills their crib |
| 03:37:06 | kaen | bobdaduck_m, when get access to a real machine can you check out bitfighter.org/pleiades ? |
| 03:37:11 | kaen | when you* |
| 03:37:19 | kaen | actually, hold on let me push |
| 03:37:34 | bobdaduck_m | sure thing. Might be later tonight or tomorrow at work |
| 03:37:46 | kaen | okay |
| 03:38:10 | kaen | pretty drastic style changes today... |
| 03:40:23 | bobdaduck_m | okay just looked at it on my phone |
| 03:40:31 | bobdaduck_m | Everything is better |
| 03:40:42 | bobdaduck_m | Even the name looks better |
| 03:40:57 | kaen | lol the name is literally the only part that didn't change |
| 03:41:15 | bobdaduck_m | Each section allows for like 5 levels, right? |
| 03:41:27 | bobdaduck_m | As scope goes, I predict we'll need like 10 |
| 03:41:30 | kaen | 8 |
| 03:41:39 | bobdaduck_m | That works |
| 03:41:42 | kaen | I added random levels at the bottom just for you :) |
| 03:41:52 | bobdaduck_m | thanks xD |
| 03:41:57 | kaen | I actually haven't looked at it on a phone yet |
| 03:42:08 | kaen | I'd be surprised if it doesn't look like garbage. |
| 03:42:41 | bobdaduck_m | Uh my phone is windows mobile and |
| 03:42:54 | bobdaduck_m | I dunno, displays things the way they'd look on a normal computer |
| 03:43:12 | kaen | wow, looks pretty much identical on my phone |
| 03:43:16 | bobdaduck_m | Takes ages longer to load but still |
| 03:43:25 | | fordcars has joined |
| 03:43:31 | kaen | maybe I need to lighten the level blocks on the overview |
| 03:43:38 | kaen | the bottom mixes in with the background on my phone... |
| 03:43:57 | bobdaduck_m | Looks fine tot me |
| 03:44:17 | bobdaduck_m | I mean they're really close but just enough off that you can tell the blocks |
| 03:44:21 | bobdaduck_m | which I say is fine |
| 03:44:27 | kaen | works for me |
| 03:45:20 | kaen | it would be cool if I could make a link in the browser that would launch the client to do the necessary /dlmap |
| 03:45:37 | kaen | but you'd have to register bitfighter as a protocol handler in the browser :/ |
| 03:45:52 | bobdaduck_m | well the download button works fine right? |
| 03:46:00 | kaen | heh yeah |
| 03:46:13 | bobdaduck_m | 'sall good then |
| 03:46:17 | kaen | but then you have find the zip and extract it appropriately |
| 03:46:25 | kaen | but also you can just run the command yourself |
| 03:46:28 | kaen | not that hard |
| 03:46:28 | bobdaduck_m | Though, /dlmap still seems fuzzy and confusing |
| 03:46:51 | kaen | well, the website generates a string based on the author and map name |
| 03:47:03 | kaen | you type that after /dlmap and the website finds your map for you |
| 03:47:12 | | SolumnMushroom Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 03:47:17 | kaen | everything else is magic |
| 03:47:24 | bobdaduck_m | so is it intuitive |
| 03:47:42 | kaen | well, airlock by watusimoto becomes watusimoto_airlock |
| 03:47:52 | bobdaduck_m | Or do you actually have to go to pleiades to find out bebop is "be12kae6xz"? |
| 03:47:56 | fordcars | awesome bitfighter.org/pleiades ! |
| 03:48:03 | kaen | fordcars, don't tell anyone though! |
| 03:48:08 | kaen | it's a secret for 019 |
| 03:48:13 | kaen | and thank you :) |
| 03:48:20 | kaen | feel free to use it; I need more testers |
| 03:48:28 | fordcars | I never tell anything about developpement!!!! |
| 03:48:49 | bobdaduck_m | wait, we have developmental secrets? |
| 03:48:53 | kaen | but the data gets cleared regularly, so don't rely on it for backup yet |
| 03:49:08 | kaen | it's not super secret, just want to have the double-punch of 019 and the leveldb |
| 03:49:10 | fordcars | are we going to implement some kind of Client for Pleiades built-in Bitfighter? |
| 03:49:17 | kaen | fordcars, it's already there |
| 03:49:22 | fordcars | ooOOOoooo |
| 03:49:24 | kaen | in 019 you can upload to db from the editor |
| 03:49:27 | bobdaduck_m | lol |
| 03:49:32 | kaen | and /dlmap to get levels from the site |
| 03:49:45 | kaen | but that's all there is for now |
| 03:49:49 | fordcars | nice, sorry, i have been occupied |
| 03:50:02 | kaen | it's okay, I like to talk about it :) |
| 03:50:20 | kaen | anyway, bobdaduck_m, it's super intuitive. |
| 03:50:32 | kaen | you can guess the slug for nearly all levels |
| 03:50:57 | kaen | numbers, goofy characters, etc. get stripped, whitespace and underscores are condensed into a single underscore |
| 03:51:05 | kaen | then it's just author_level_name |
| 03:51:30 | fordcars | really? |
| 03:51:42 | bobdaduck_m | bobdaduck_rts |
| 03:51:47 | kaen | yes |
| 03:51:56 | bobdaduck_m | And it auto grabs levelgens too right? |
| 03:52:00 | kaen | yep |
| 03:52:06 | bobdaduck_m | And does it strip returns? |
| 03:52:09 | fordcars | nice! |
| 03:52:15 | kaen | strip returns? |
| 03:52:24 | kaen | oh, newlines |
| 03:52:25 | kaen | yes |
| 03:52:31 | kaen | and sanitizes them |
| 03:52:34 | fordcars | oh haha |
| 03:52:39 | bobdaduck_m | but not for levelgens right? |
| 03:52:54 | fordcars | wouldn't matter I think |
| 03:53:03 | bobdaduck_m | Levelgens will break if it does |
| 03:53:07 | kaen | it does replacement and trims at the begging/end |
| 03:53:12 | kaen | but doesn't modify the inside |
| 03:53:18 | kaen | beginning* |
| 03:53:43 | fordcars | wow kaen, I am impressive |
| 03:53:55 | kaen | good to hear :) |
| 03:53:57 | bobdaduck_m | Fordcars is impressive. |
| 03:54:02 | fordcars | yup |
| 03:54:04 | kaen | feel sort of like the phantom of the opera sometimes |
| 03:54:13 | kaen | just playing my organ to an empty theater... |
| 03:54:19 | fordcars | hah |
| 03:54:27 | bobdaduck_m | You sing while you program? |
| 03:54:59 | fordcars | *no answer* |
| 03:55:17 | bobdaduck_m | He sings his code into an audio interpretter |
| 03:55:23 | fordcars | haha |
| 03:56:38 | fordcars | audible C++ |
| 03:57:22 | bobdaduck_m | when there's an error it spits it back to him in morse-code dial tones |
| 03:57:32 | bobdaduck_m | because he's actually blind. |
| 03:58:10 | bobdaduck_m | I am impressive. |
| 03:58:35 | fordcars | -.-- . ... / --- ..-. / -.-. --- ..- .-. ... . / -.- .- . -. / .. ... / -... .-.. .. -. -.. --..-- / -.. ..- .... .... |
| 04:01:52 | kaen | lol |
| 04:08:11 | bobdaduck_m | Suns! |
| 04:08:23 | bobdaduck_m | Consider your crib, chilled. |
| 04:08:35 | | bobdaduck_m Quit () |
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| 05:42:12 | fordcars | kaen, how did you do a shell through lua api? |
| 05:42:26 | fordcars | lua socket? |
| 05:42:37 | kaen | no, using netcat and os.execute |
| 05:42:42 | kaen | and some bash |
| 05:43:02 | fordcars | ahhh nice |
| 06:43:32 | | kaen Quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 07:59:59 | | ChanServ sets mode +o watusimoto |
| 08:15:47 | watusimoto | A more positive video |
| 08:15:57 | watusimoto | You can test your spanish! |
| 08:15:58 | watusimoto | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSK6uyovwqo |
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| 13:20:32 | | raptor has joined |
| 13:20:33 | | ChanServ sets mode +o raptor |
| 13:23:36 | raptor | good morning! |
| 13:25:43 | raptor | "better and badder than ever!" |
| 13:59:16 | | bobdaduck has joined |
| 14:04:10 | raptor | The poly2tri guy took me seriously and linked to Clipper on his home page |
| 14:17:37 | bobdaduck | good? |
| 14:26:46 | watusimoto | great! |
| 14:40:49 | raptor | hi watusimoto |
| 14:40:56 | watusimoto | hi |
| 14:41:06 | raptor | I'm wondering about opengl z-buffer |
| 14:41:39 | raptor | if i drew object ontop of each other do i just need to adjust the z-index to something other than 0 (like 1 or -1)? |
| 14:41:50 | watusimoto | it depends |
| 14:41:59 | watusimoto | that's my helpful answer for the day |
| 14:42:04 | watusimoto | any other questions? |
| 14:42:09 | watusimoto | :-) |
| 14:42:11 | raptor | heh |
| 14:42:12 | raptor | uhh |
| 14:42:14 | raptor | ok |
| 14:42:18 | watusimoto | if the objects have no transparency, you can do that |
| 14:42:24 | watusimoto | if they have transparency, draw order matters |
| 14:42:37 | raptor | i'm looking to get rid of the drawing layers (i.e. render(S32 layerIndex)) |
| 14:42:44 | watusimoto | yes |
| 14:42:50 | watusimoto | I've looked at that too |
| 14:43:04 | watusimoto | I'm not sure we can do it |
| 14:43:17 | raptor | no? |
| 14:43:19 | raptor | hmm |
| 14:43:30 | watusimoto | if we don't do any transparency, we can get rid of them |
| 14:43:38 | raptor | and bit 'get rid of' i mean, do it in one pass using the z-axis somehow |
| 14:43:43 | raptor | *and by |
| 14:43:46 | watusimoto | I think that linesmoothing counts as transparency, but not sure |
| 14:43:51 | watusimoto | yes, that's what I mean |
| 14:44:05 | raptor | really? how does transparency mess it up? |
| 14:45:17 | watusimoto | I'm looking for the article I read about it |
| 14:45:45 | raptor | hah! found something: "Generally transparency is done by first rendering all opaque objects in the scene (letting the z-buffer figure out what's visible), then rendering all transparent objects from back to front." |
| 14:46:05 | raptor | so yeah, that's horrible |
| 14:46:13 | raptor | i mean, probably good for performance.. |
| 14:46:45 | watusimoto | well, basically, if A shows through B, you need to draw A before B |
| 14:46:51 | watusimoto | otherwise it will not show through B |
| 14:47:00 | watusimoto | I can't find the article |
| 14:47:23 | raptor | interesting |
| 14:47:28 | raptor | no real way around it.. |
| 14:47:45 | watusimoto | well, perhaps for the ships, for example, we could try to figure a way to get rid of the layers |
| 14:47:59 | watusimoto | not sure what's actually going on there that requires different draw layers |
| 14:48:16 | watusimoto | and most of our objects do not overlap normally |
| 14:48:21 | kaen | they get passed through qsort, if I recall |
| 14:48:51 | watusimoto | much of what we want on top is text and gui elements, and these are easy to draw later |
| 14:48:59 | kaen | oh wait, think of a different layerindex :x |
| 14:49:17 | kaen | I'll drink some coffee before I start talking about programming. also, good morning |
| 14:49:26 | raptor | mornin' kaen |
| 14:51:49 | raptor | even the ship has alpha.. |
| 14:52:10 | watusimoto | hi |
| 14:52:20 | bobdaduck | So wait did we decide on pleiades against auto-generating a screenshot? |
| 14:52:32 | watusimoto | but does that alpha matter for rendering the ship? i.e. could we render it all in one pass? |
| 14:52:59 | watusimoto | nothing is ever rendered behind the ship that might need to shine through, is it? |
| 14:53:23 | raptor | looks like layers involve /showcoords, the player's name, and the cloaking cloak |
| 14:53:45 | watusimoto | coords and playername can be drawn anytime... there is no overlap |
| 14:53:55 | raptor | they have 'textAlpha' |
| 14:53:58 | watusimoto | unless, perhaps, ships are very close? |
| 14:53:58 | raptor | hmm |
| 14:54:13 | raptor | you could spawn on top of someone else |
| 14:54:26 | watusimoto | if you are on top, the names won't collide with a ship |
| 14:54:27 | raptor | should we implement telefrags? :) |
| 14:54:33 | watusimoto | ???? |
| 14:54:40 | raptor | spawn killing |
| 14:54:58 | raptor | ok, ignore that.. |
| 14:55:19 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 14:56:05 | raptor | huh |
| 14:56:36 | raptor | it looks like layer -1 draws the cloak covering |
| 14:56:44 | raptor | layer 1 draws the ship |
| 14:58:49 | bobdaduck | I think that telefrags for engineered teleporters is a great idea. |
| 15:00:27 | bobdaduck | Not quite as good an idea as suns, but still. |
| 15:00:51 | raptor | https://www.opengl.org/wiki/Transparency_Sorting |
| 15:00:57 | raptor | good article so far ^^ |
| 15:01:04 | watusimoto | we are getting rid of cloak covering, right? |
| 15:02:06 | bobdaduck | yeah |
| 15:03:44 | raptor | we are? |
| 15:04:09 | raptor | that means I should write that down? |
| 15:04:22 | raptor | what are we replacing it with? nothing? |
| 15:04:36 | watusimoto | I think bobdaduck convinced us (me?) that we should kill it |
| 15:04:47 | raptor | so replacement is... nothing? |
| 15:04:49 | bobdaduck | I'm actually not so sure anymore |
| 15:04:49 | watusimoto | you could probably remove it in less time than it would take to write it down! |
| 15:04:53 | bobdaduck | nothing |
| 15:04:55 | watusimoto | what?? |
| 15:04:55 | raptor | ok |
| 15:05:01 | raptor | waht? |
| 15:05:03 | bobdaduck | Because we buffed triple |
| 15:05:06 | bobdaduck | which is a buff to cloak. |
| 15:05:13 | watusimoto | well, for the record, I like it |
| 15:05:24 | watusimoto | I like blocking stars with the cloaked ship |
| 15:05:27 | raptor | i'm getting lost in the pronouns! |
| 15:05:31 | raptor | ok |
| 15:05:33 | bobdaduck | I think its fun too, to give people a chance at spotting cloakers |
| 15:05:46 | watusimoto | raptor: forget it; let's leave it for now |
| 15:05:52 | raptor | hah, ok |
| 15:06:02 | bobdaduck | sure |
| 15:06:09 | raptor | maybe I can figure out how to render ship in one layer.. |
| 15:07:15 | raptor | watusimoto: speaking of removing crufty stuff... we have two starfields |
| 15:07:31 | raptor | parallax vs yuk |
| 15:07:38 | watusimoto | yuk? |
| 15:08:04 | raptor | basically dots that stay relative to the walls |
| 15:08:11 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 15:08:18 | watusimoto | that was there for k |
| 15:08:23 | kaen | that is yuk... |
| 15:08:23 | raptor | you should look at it - switch the INI option |
| 15:08:24 | bobdaduck | I could never tell the difference between them xD |
| 15:08:30 | raptor | bobdaduck: what |
| 15:08:38 | bobdaduck | Yeah. |
| 15:08:41 | raptor | bobdaduck: go try it and say that again with a straight face |
| 15:08:49 | bobdaduck | rofl |
| 15:08:59 | raptor | change: StarsInDistance=Yes |
| 15:09:01 | raptor | to 'No' |
| 15:09:04 | bobdaduck | Yeah |
| 15:09:11 | watusimoto | it's pretty yukky |
| 15:09:33 | raptor | _k used it *only* so he could have the advantage against cloakers |
| 15:09:40 | raptor | .. as far as I could tell |
| 15:09:57 | watusimoto | he hated paralax from the first momemnt I implemented it |
| 15:10:07 | watusimoto | said it made him nauesussseus |
| 15:10:37 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 15:10:41 | kaen | heh. I was just going to complain about not having *enough* parallax |
| 15:10:44 | watusimoto | the paralax thing was probably the second thing I changed in Zap (after testItems), so the coding is pretty shaky |
| 15:10:47 | bobdaduck | I think raptor's thought is more likely |
| 15:10:56 | watusimoto | I'd be happy to kill it |
| 15:10:59 | watusimoto | parallax or die |
| 15:11:14 | watusimoto | I do have distant plans for alternate backgrounds |
| 15:11:18 | bobdaduck | No seriously I barely see the difference |
| 15:11:33 | bobdaduck | Only after being told exactly what to look for |
| 15:11:34 | watusimoto | like the hexagons whose code is in there |
| 15:13:03 | watusimoto | I also want to do a background like a sparse version of this: |
| 15:13:05 | watusimoto | http://www.flickr.com/photos/crobj/3260337317/ |
| 15:14:25 | watusimoto | but stars not in distance? forget it |
| 15:14:34 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 15:14:52 | raptor | I was thinking of slightly altering our current background to maybe have random stars that are a bit redder and maybe slightly bigger (like 2 pixels instead of 1) |
| 15:15:12 | raptor | just to add a tiny bit more variety.. |
| 15:15:30 | bobdaduck | Any background change at all will affect whether cloak is based on luck or skill. |
| 15:15:40 | bobdaduck | With the current cloaking hiding stars thing. |
| 15:16:43 | raptor | well, let's just say cloak is much easier to detect if: 1. you're not moving (which is suicide) or 2. you have 'StarsInBackground=No' |
| 15:16:56 | raptor | *StarsInDistance |
| 15:18:31 | bobdaduck | But if the background is sometimes bigger stars or hexagon or boomerangs or stick figures then it will affect how easy it is to see cloakers. |
| 15:19:17 | raptor | well... watusimoto's suggests are much more drastic than mine |
| 15:19:38 | raptor | I wouldn't have an option to 'enableBigStars'; it would be the default |
| 15:19:55 | watusimoto | bobdaduck: good point |
| 15:20:11 | raptor | so watusimoto, kaen - I'm ready to kill 'StarsInDistance=No'... should I go ahead? |
| 15:20:18 | watusimoto | raptor: I've tried a few other stars ideas, and they haven't been very good |
| 15:20:20 | kaen | thumbs up |
| 15:20:29 | bobdaduck | Yeah, but that makes whether or not you spot a cloaker more chancey |
| 15:20:45 | watusimoto | raptor: so I'm skeptical , but would be willing to keep an open mind :-) |
| 15:20:52 | raptor | watusimoto: about what? |
| 15:20:58 | raptor | err, which? |
| 15:20:59 | watusimoto | about redder bigger stars |
| 15:21:14 | bobdaduck | if they happen to cover up a big star then its much more visable than if they cover up a small star. |
| 15:21:26 | bobdaduck | And of course there's no way for a cloaker to know what to avoid or whatever |
| 15:21:33 | watusimoto | this is true |
| 15:21:34 | raptor | watusimoto: what about killing StarsInDistance ? |
| 15:21:39 | watusimoto | kill it |
| 15:21:43 | raptor | doing so now.. |
| 15:21:52 | watusimoto | and mark your checkin with a [*]! |
| 15:21:55 | raptor | bobdaduck: it would be very sparse |
| 15:22:14 | raptor | watusimoto: we're still doing that? I've missed so many already... |
| 15:22:21 | bobdaduck | IF you're going to implement different backgrounds (which I'm against), then cloakers hiding stars should go.(which I'm for) |
| 15:22:25 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 15:22:32 | watusimoto | maybe we can think of a different cloak mechanism besides blocking stars |
| 15:22:49 | watusimoto | raptor: I'm still doing it... sort of |
| 15:22:54 | raptor | random star scattering in various directions |
| 15:23:02 | watusimoto | I had thought of star swirling |
| 15:23:08 | watusimoto | basically the same thing |
| 15:23:18 | watusimoto | that might be more eye catching that twinkling out |
| 15:23:21 | bobdaduck | That's... Way visible. |
| 15:24:13 | watusimoto | one problem with star hiding is it requires clients to know about hidden ships' location... which could lead to hacked clients and cheating |
| 15:24:30 | kaen | ^ this is my main objection |
| 15:24:58 | bobdaduck | So go ahead and get rid of that too. |
| 15:25:00 | watusimoto | here's an alternative |
| 15:25:03 | kaen | also, I've never successfully detected cloakers via star blocking. I'm too busy looking at the pretty colors |
| 15:25:34 | watusimoto | what if when there was a cloaked ship in the area, random stars around you were somehow distorted, but not in any particular direction or location |
| 15:25:52 | watusimoto | some kind of generalized distortion that revealed presence but not location |
| 15:26:11 | bobdaduck | That removes any sort of element of surprise to cloak at all. |
| 15:26:49 | bobdaduck | I've had a different experience kaen: I've never, ever, ever, had a cloaker succesfully sneak up on me. They're super easy to spot. |
| 15:26:52 | kaen | I'm not convinced that there's a problem with cloakers being totally undetectable. I mean you give up a module and energy for it |
| 15:27:05 | watusimoto | this is true |
| 15:27:08 | kaen | and unless you're shielding you're super easy to kill |
| 15:27:15 | kaen | and if you are shielding you won't be cloaked for long |
| 15:27:20 | watusimoto | exactly |
| 15:27:22 | bobdaduck | Good points. |
| 15:27:54 | | kaen is starting to understand gameplay \o/ |
| 15:27:59 | watusimoto | :-) |
| 15:28:23 | watusimoto | what about an object like a spybug that disables modules in the area |
| 15:28:39 | kaen | whoa |
| 15:28:42 | kaen | that would be awesome |
| 15:29:15 | kaen | what about passives like armor? |
| 15:29:19 | watusimoto | a flux field absorber |
| 15:29:38 | watusimoto | I'd say only electronic things would be disabled, so armor would stay |
| 15:29:41 | raptor | auras? |
| 15:29:49 | watusimoto | could also continue to carry resources |
| 15:29:52 | watusimoto | just not use them |
| 15:29:54 | raptor | auras would open pandora's box |
| 15:30:01 | watusimoto | what are auras? |
| 15:30:11 | kaen | team-buffs, I think |
| 15:30:54 | raptor | if a team member nears you, then they get a bonus |
| 15:31:13 | watusimoto | like what, for example? |
| 15:31:17 | raptor | or any effect that is distance-from-ability based |
| 15:31:29 | watusimoto | (I'm voting to kill the hidden star effect) |
| 15:31:56 | raptor | millions of ideas in that regard: equip armor, everyone within 300 radius gets an armor bonus, too |
| 15:32:42 | kaen | auras would be cool because they'd encourage team play and let unskilled players still be valuable to their teammates (assuming both players know about aura effects) |
| 15:33:00 | kaen | but yes, definitely pandora's box |
| 15:34:48 | bobdaduck | Lets not do auras yet. |
| 15:34:50 | watusimoto | I'm not going to offer an opinion at thsi point |
| 15:35:13 | raptor | yeah, no auras for 019 please |
| 15:35:17 | kaen | agreed. that's a pretty massive mechanic to balance |
| 15:35:22 | bobdaduck | Suns? |
| 15:36:44 | kaen | okay -- we should totally embed a scripting environment into the game (maybe lua?) and let players have programmatic access to gameplay elements, allowing them to manipulate the physics, generation, and destruction of them. that way bobdaduck could implement his sun idea |
| 15:36:48 | kaen | -- oh wait |
| 15:37:01 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 15:37:25 | bobdaduck | I can't quite make an engineerable/repairable whatever yet... |
| 15:38:25 | bobdaduck | I can make the gravity well and maybe even the damaging the closer someone is to the center part, but making it an actual object is harder.... |
| 15:38:41 | kaen | hm that's true |
| 15:39:03 | bobdaduck | And also I'm advocating this be a bitfighter-wide change, rather than just an individual level thing. |
| 15:39:14 | kaen | I thought you were mostly joking :x |
| 15:39:21 | bobdaduck | I WAS |
| 15:39:30 | kaen | okay |
| 15:39:30 | bobdaduck | But then I started to like the idea. |
| 15:39:53 | bobdaduck | Mostly. I mean I'm not saying we need to implement solar wind and solar panels along with it |
| 15:40:57 | kaen | I think a couple more triggers and you could attach that behavior to some other engineerable object (maybe teleporters) in a levelgen |
| 15:41:10 | kaen | but that really sounds like a better mod than integrated gameplay element |
| 15:42:33 | bobdaduck | Making it in levelgens would be really hacky anyway though. And even if it wasn't, it would look hacky. *glares at 33 ms* |
| 15:43:06 | raptor | the deed is done |
| 15:43:16 | | BFLogBot Commit: 3b228467a6d9 | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Remove StarsInDistance option |
| 15:43:23 | | raptor reminds bobdaduck that this is a NETWORK game |
| 15:44:20 | bobdaduck | Google optics is coming to provo server speeds won't even matter |
| 15:44:31 | raptor | heh |
| 15:45:00 | raptor | yeah, everyone is excited here - maybe comcast will finally die |
| 15:45:23 | bobdaduck | BESIDES I SHOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE A STUPIDLY INTENSIVE SERVER IF I WANT TO. |
| 15:45:58 | kaen | I agree with you on that |
| 15:49:35 | kaen | bobdaduck I'm running out of pleiades bugs... a little help? |
| 15:52:20 | watusimoto | I have a minor suggestion for you kaen |
| 15:52:30 | watusimoto | on the levels display |
| 15:52:43 | watusimoto | move the tags above the level code, and make the levelcode fully expanded by default |
| 15:52:52 | watusimoto | if it's last it won't really matter how long it is |
| 15:53:25 | watusimoto | scrolling a window that has a scrollable element in it can be weird if your mouse happens to land in the inner scrollable element |
| 15:53:29 | kaen | ah, good idea! |
| 15:53:36 | kaen | I noticed that so many times... |
| 15:53:44 | kaen | just never thought of a solution |
| 15:54:14 | kaen | it's especially bad because the textareas on pleiades are like 80% of the window |
| 15:54:18 | watusimoto | google things the page is in dutch! |
| 15:54:23 | watusimoto | or rather chrome |
| 15:54:26 | kaen | I know :/ |
| 15:54:44 | kaen | I even put an explicit language attribute in it |
| 15:54:49 | watusimoto | To download this map while playing Bitfighter, run: >>>> To download this map while playing Bitfighter, type: |
| 15:55:10 | watusimoto | caution: viewer discretion advised? |
| 15:55:21 | kaen | heh |
| 15:55:33 | raptor | go firefox! |
| 15:55:49 | watusimoto | search by author, perhaps? linked to author names? |
| 15:56:14 | kaen | you can search by author, but I haven't added name links yet |
| 15:56:22 | watusimoto | oh good! you added the stars in the bg! |
| 15:56:28 | watusimoto | I was going to suggest that last night! |
| 15:56:32 | kaen | helps a *lot* |
| 15:56:39 | watusimoto | o0r whenver I last looked at the site |
| 15:57:11 | raptor | it feels less lonely now |
| 15:57:15 | watusimoto | yes |
| 15:57:29 | bobdaduck | Oh |
| 15:57:35 | bobdaduck | I like the shiny on the blocks |
| 15:57:56 | kaen | yes, it was quite broken when I put it up last night |
| 15:58:24 | kaen | that shiny is a subtle composition of three different effects, so it's hard harmonize it :x |
| 15:58:28 | bobdaduck | I think you should be able to vote on levels without opening it up |
| 15:58:50 | bobdaduck | Because sometimes you don't need to open a level to know what it is. |
| 15:59:03 | kaen | I disagree: I don't want to encourage mass drive-by voting |
| 15:59:34 | bobdaduck | Okay then. |
| 15:59:49 | kaen | I was even thinking about requiring comments for down-voting |
| 16:00:03 | bobdaduck | There's a comments system? |
| 16:00:09 | kaen | there will be shortly |
| 16:00:12 | raptor | kaen: good idea |
| 16:00:15 | bobdaduck | Nice! |
| 16:00:24 | bobdaduck | 'course this is going to outright replace the forums |
| 16:00:28 | bobdaduck | but whatever! |
| 16:00:36 | kaen | nah, because you can only discuss levels |
| 16:00:48 | kaen | where would we have our gif and self-pic threads? |
| 16:01:00 | kaen | those are probably 60% of the forum traffic |
| 16:01:00 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 16:01:13 | bobdaduck | Well replace the levels part of the forums. |
| 16:01:24 | kaen | just the map gallery, really |
| 16:01:50 | kaen | and kaen test |
| 16:01:58 | kaen | which is how this all started... |
| 16:01:59 | bobdaduck | yay! |
| 16:02:00 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 16:02:43 | bobdaduck | People really like airlock |
| 16:03:50 | kaen | it's officially the highest rated map in bitfighter :) |
| 16:04:10 | bobdaduck | Most downloaded too |
| 16:06:23 | watusimoto | so how will voting be done? |
| 16:06:43 | watusimoto | if it's +1/0/-1, it would be easy to implement in-game voting |
| 16:06:54 | watusimoto | we just have a toggle vote button |
| 16:06:58 | bobdaduck | That's how its done currently |
| 16:07:09 | kaen | the only thing that's stopping my from in-game voting is spoofing |
| 16:07:16 | watusimoto | how so? |
| 16:07:31 | watusimoto | i.e. what do you mean by spoofing |
| 16:07:47 | bobdaduck | make it so only registered players can vote |
| 16:07:47 | kaen | like, I could take airlock, replace leveldatabaseid with the id of my own map, distribute that, and when people think they're voting for airlock they're actually voting for my map |
| 16:07:56 | watusimoto | ah |
| 16:08:08 | kaen | we could safely do it -- but only from locally hosted games |
| 16:08:13 | kaen | i.e. in the editor |
| 16:08:30 | bobdaduck | Make sure the author/levelname/description and everything match? |
| 16:08:35 | watusimoto | require why not make the id be a hash of the level? |
| 16:08:42 | watusimoto | oh wait |
| 16:08:48 | kaen | because it's a primary key in the sql db |
| 16:08:52 | bobdaduck | And you don't have to tell people how the voting works |
| 16:09:12 | kaen | security through obscurity is not security at all |
| 16:09:50 | bobdaduck | True but couldn't you require a lot of things to match before it lets the vote through? |
| 16:10:02 | watusimoto | welll.... one could generate a hash of all the walls, for example, then clients could generate that hash themselves for voting purposes |
| 16:10:20 | bobdaduck | yeah |
| 16:10:22 | watusimoto | and you could vote via that hash, and have the database just search for it rather than use the id |
| 16:10:35 | raptor | i'm going to update clipperlib.. |
| 16:10:36 | kaen | neither of those really guarantee that you're voting on exactly the level you're playing |
| 16:10:51 | kaen | and also, how does one generate the hash? |
| 16:11:18 | kaen | you could hash level code, but the client would need a copy and you couldn't be certain that the code the server sent is what you're actually playing |
| 16:11:24 | watusimoto | I think the hash would guarantee the client was voting on the level they were looking at |
| 16:11:37 | watusimoto | the hash generation might be a tad tricky |
| 16:11:52 | bobdaduck | Check if levelname/author/description match the level in the database? |
| 16:11:53 | kaen | it would guarantee that the walls were the same, but it's subject to floating point error and levelgen manipulation |
| 16:12:17 | bobdaduck | If someone is that desperate to get votes on their obscure level.... |
| 16:12:35 | watusimoto | rounding we can handle (round the numbers to nearest .1, for example). Levelgens are more difficult. |
| 16:12:51 | watusimoto | mazeracer generates walls before they are sent to client |
| 16:12:57 | watusimoto | and has none in the level itself |
| 16:13:15 | watusimoto | we could trust the servers... |
| 16:13:19 | kaen | yeah... |
| 16:13:29 | watusimoto | wall hashing is out |
| 16:13:37 | raptor | create a specific hash algorithm: like concatenate all non object attributes of a level file in a certain way |
| 16:14:13 | watusimoto | if you don't trust the server, it is a bit hard |
| 16:14:29 | watusimoto | walls are non spoofable, which is nice. but flawed for other reasons |
| 16:14:41 | watusimoto | things like repair items aren't sent to client all at once |
| 16:14:44 | bobdaduck | So if you vote for mazracer, it takes the level ID (spoofed to say, airlock) and tries to match the walls in the current level to the code in the database ID. Since airlock has walls and mazeracer doesn't, then the vote doesn't go through. |
| 16:14:51 | watusimoto | and suffer from the same problem as walls |
| 16:15:18 | kaen | voting by author + level name is actually the most trustworthy system I can think of because those are unique and a human could tell if they've been spoofed |
| 16:15:28 | watusimoto | if they are paying attention |
| 16:15:46 | watusimoto | who knows who created geowar? well, I do, but the average player doesn't |
| 16:15:59 | raptor | or |
| 16:16:04 | raptor | hmm |
| 16:16:22 | bobdaduck | So why doesn't checking if random parts of the level code match work? |
| 16:16:22 | raptor | could could send the master-generated hash to the server |
| 16:16:24 | watusimoto | to protect against a bad server, the client needs to generate a level fingerprint that the server can verify |
| 16:16:39 | watusimoto | that the master can verify, that is |
| 16:16:43 | raptor | well, hmm... i need to think about it more |
| 16:17:54 | watusimoto | I think in-game voting would be really great if we can make it work. Far more people would be willing to vote |
| 16:17:56 | raptor | well if we only let authenticated users do things and we detect a spoof, we can punish them |
| 16:17:58 | bobdaduck | I still don't think its at all likely that someone is going to be so desperate for votes that they would try spoofing. |
| 16:18:01 | | LordDVG Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 16:18:06 | watusimoto | I would be willing to trust servers to get that feature, I think |
| 16:18:27 | watusimoto | raptor: the spoof would be by the server, not the user |
| 16:18:47 | kaen | true, but it would benefit a specific player |
| 16:18:51 | raptor | so do we need a concept of a 'trusted' server |
| 16:18:52 | kaen | who could then be punished |
| 16:18:56 | bobdaduck | And even afterwards the users would be like "what why is this stupid map so high rated" and downvote it |
| 16:19:01 | watusimoto | that |
| 16:19:07 | kaen | I've been thinking about trusted server for quite some time |
| 16:19:17 | watusimoto | or rather why did that level get 2000 votes and no other levels have any? |
| 16:19:31 | bobdaduck | well 2000 votes using this spoofing system isn't feasable |
| 16:19:37 | bobdaduck | it'd be more like 2 extra votes. |
| 16:19:50 | watusimoto | if I host a server and everyone who votes on any level is voting for mine... |
| 16:20:04 | bobdaduck | Then you have four votes. |
| 16:20:08 | watusimoto | there are people who will screw with things just because they can |
| 16:20:10 | bobdaduck | Maybe six. |
| 16:20:17 | watusimoto | even going as far as to create swords out of loadout zones |
| 16:20:22 | bobdaduck | rofl |
| 16:20:23 | kaen | rofl |
| 16:20:36 | watusimoto | just because they're that kind of people |
| 16:20:47 | bobdaduck | You |
| 16:20:52 | bobdaduck | You're right, this could be bad. |
| 16:21:00 | watusimoto | but I am willing to risk abuse to make the feature work better |
| 16:21:12 | kaen | I agree |
| 16:21:22 | kaen | worst case, we can trivially disable it from the web app |
| 16:21:45 | bobdaduck | Or allow manual resetting of spoofed votes by admins or whatever |
| 16:21:46 | bobdaduck | Yeah. |
| 16:21:59 | watusimoto | well, we could do a hybrid approach: md5 fingerprint of file iteself, provided by server, mingled with name, creator, walls, etc. from client |
| 16:22:17 | watusimoto | spoofable, but also potentially detectable |
| 16:22:37 | watusimoto | because it incorporates items visible to user |
| 16:23:04 | kaen | I'm trying to avoid too much level parsing server-side. especially parsing data regarding game objects |
| 16:23:17 | watusimoto | we already compute md5 of level on server |
| 16:23:24 | watusimoto | I think |
| 16:23:31 | watusimoto | oh |
| 16:23:33 | kaen | but I meant the walls and stuff |
| 16:23:36 | watusimoto | server side menaing web server |
| 16:23:39 | kaen | yeah |
| 16:24:04 | kaen | levelname and game type is reasonable, reimplementing processArguments for each object... |
| 16:24:08 | kaen | not so much |
| 16:24:44 | watusimoto | levelname, gametype, and creator might be enough |
| 16:25:05 | watusimoto | but walls could be treated as text -- text that could be generated on client |
| 16:25:08 | kaen | I think we should trust the server and tell the client which author/level is getting their vote |
| 16:25:18 | watusimoto | with the tostring method |
| 16:25:18 | kaen | and that will suffice |
| 16:25:33 | watusimoto | yes probably |
| 16:25:47 | watusimoto | we don't have a history of cheating in this game |
| 16:25:56 | watusimoto | at least unsuccessful cheating |
| 16:26:23 | bobdaduck | StarsInDistance? |
| 16:26:27 | raptor | gone! |
| 16:26:35 | bobdaduck | history |
| 16:26:54 | kaen | it only takes one observant player to thwart a malicious server, but loads of clueless players to benefit from it, so that's pretty good asymmetry |
| 16:28:00 | bobdaduck | And then we... lock down a scammed level in the database so people can't vote for it anymore? |
| 16:28:33 | kaen | I don't know what a good response is. we can figure that out when/if the time comes |
| 16:28:43 | watusimoto | transfer all suspect votes to airlock |
| 16:28:57 | kaen | where they should have gone in the first place. |
| 16:29:00 | bobdaduck | rofl |
| 16:29:07 | watusimoto | exactly! |
| 16:29:13 | watusimoto | jsutice done |
| 16:29:14 | bobdaduck | Airlock! |
| 16:29:18 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 16:29:30 | bobdaduck | but what if airlock is the spoofed level |
| 16:29:42 | kaen | spoofception |
| 16:29:47 | bobdaduck | rofl |
| 16:40:19 | | koda Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 16:45:17 | | bobdaduck Quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 16:55:02 | raptor | spoofception! |
| 17:11:20 | | BFLogBot Commit: 0fd3dd44c826 | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Update Clipper from upstream to 5.1.4 (rev 308) |
| 17:12:31 | watusimoto | later |
| 17:12:35 | raptor | bye |
| 17:12:47 | | watusimoto Quit (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 17:30:04 | raptor | haha, my kid just came running out of the kitchen with a 14 inch serrated knife |
| 17:35:32 | | Watusimoto has joined |
| 17:42:07 | | thread_ has joined |
| 17:43:46 | thread_ | Hey raptor, the website doesn't send the email validations to people signing up for the forum. can you tell whoever is in charge of that? |
| 17:44:04 | raptor | hi thread_ |
| 17:44:07 | raptor | really? |
| 17:44:14 | raptor | what is your username, I'll validate you |
| 17:44:18 | thread_ | i tried yesterday and today. no email both times |
| 17:44:27 | thread_ | either thread or thread_speaker |
| 17:44:37 | raptor | which do you want (i'll kill the other) |
| 17:44:39 | raptor | ? |
| 17:44:43 | thread_ | thread then |
| 17:44:54 | | bobdaduck has joined |
| 17:45:03 | thread_ | IT'S BOB! |
| 17:45:25 | bobdaduck | Sup thread |
| 17:45:28 | bobdaduck | Any luck? |
| 17:45:44 | thread_ | with the LUA? not yet. but you should see my new map |
| 17:45:45 | raptor | ok thread_ your 'thread' account has been activated |
| 17:45:50 | thread_ | thanks |
| 17:45:56 | raptor | you guys know each other? |
| 17:46:01 | bobdaduck | lives next door |
| 17:46:05 | raptor | ha! |
| 17:46:08 | thread_ | we were into this back when it was zap |
| 17:46:12 | raptor | welcome! |
| 17:46:18 | thread_ | it has been a while |
| 17:46:32 | bobdaduck | the "towers of sherrizah" map that I nominated for BBB is his |
| 17:47:19 | raptor | where is that map? |
| 17:47:26 | bobdaduck | I have it |
| 17:47:27 | bobdaduck | uh |
| 17:47:29 | bobdaduck | CTF |
| 17:47:30 | raptor | ok |
| 17:47:34 | bobdaduck | He went by noob master back then |
| 17:47:36 | raptor | we shoudl start gathering maps I think.. |
| 17:47:38 | raptor | some time.. |
| 17:47:46 | bobdaduck | I did |
| 17:47:49 | bobdaduck | I have like 5/40 |
| 17:47:51 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 17:47:54 | raptor | I have 1! |
| 17:48:10 | thread_ | thats 6! |
| 17:48:19 | kaen | where's the list? |
| 17:48:42 | bobdaduck | uhh I dunno |
| 17:48:51 | bobdaduck | I just type in "BBB" and it goes |
| 17:50:09 | raptor | sent it to you kaen |
| 17:50:17 | kaen | so did bob :) |
| 17:50:21 | raptor | ha! |
| 17:57:31 | bobdaduck | oh and the ones with all the lines by them |
| 17:57:38 | bobdaduck | I already have in a BBB folder |
| 17:57:47 | raptor | ok |
| 17:58:08 | raptor | so... I'll send you one slowly for you to aggregate |
| 17:58:43 | raptor | that ok? |
| 18:00:08 | bobdaduck | forum pm |
| 18:00:14 | bobdaduck | I'll get around to it eventually |
| 18:00:51 | raptor | question: do zero width polywalls work? |
| 18:02:01 | bobdaduck | Uh polywalls don't have widths' |
| 18:02:04 | bobdaduck | yah? |
| 18:02:09 | raptor | sorry |
| 18:05:43 | raptor | ok sent |
| 18:08:39 | raptor | bobdaduck: your inbox isn't going to be full is it? |
| 18:08:50 | bobdaduck | Uhhh |
| 18:08:53 | bobdaduck | uhhhhhhhhh |
| 18:08:55 | bobdaduck | nearly. |
| 18:11:02 | bobdaduck | But when inbox is full |
| 18:11:08 | bobdaduck | it like, puts messages on hold |
| 18:11:13 | bobdaduck | instead of not recieving them |
| 18:12:52 | raptor | you sure? |
| 18:13:01 | bobdaduck | yeah |
| 18:14:23 | bobdaduck | Happened to me lotsa times |
| 18:14:25 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 18:20:22 | raptor | ok phoew |
| 18:20:34 | raptor | bitfighter used almost 8GB of RAM on that one! |
| 18:20:40 | bobdaduck | lol what? |
| 18:20:52 | raptor | i made a severe coding error: infinite loop |
| 18:20:53 | bobdaduck | DID YOU TRY TO LOAD LEVELGEN CARNIVAL ON AN UNINITIATED MACHINE? |
| 18:21:00 | bobdaduck | oh. |
| 18:21:02 | bobdaduck | phew. |
| 18:45:12 | | Watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 18:51:41 | kaen | raptor, how do I reload the default ini in mercurial? |
| 18:51:55 | kaen | I want to add an ini option for setting the leveldb url |
| 18:52:13 | kaen | so I want to commit to the default version of it |
| 18:52:34 | raptor | it reads on each command |
| 18:52:40 | raptor | ~/.hgrc |
| 18:53:10 | kaen | I mean the default bitfighter.ini |
| 18:53:23 | raptor | oh, just nuke the old, start the game |
| 18:53:30 | raptor | it doesn't exist in mercurial |
| 18:53:36 | kaen | ohhh |
| 18:53:45 | kaen | how do I edit the default one? |
| 18:55:15 | raptor | it's in config.cpp |
| 18:55:20 | raptor | for the comments |
| 18:55:50 | raptor | there is some elaborate system in there that handles config + ini + command options |
| 18:56:36 | raptor | take a look at how I removed the StarsInDistance option with one of the latest commits to get a feel for it |
| 18:57:04 | kaen | ok |
| 18:58:33 | | thread_ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 18:59:43 | bobdaduck | More tags for pleiades! |
| 19:00:08 | bobdaduck | It is currently small but it will have a lot a lot of levels once its live |
| 19:00:20 | bobdaduck | Gotta allow for that. |
| 19:01:12 | kaen | the tags have an interface |
| 19:01:24 | raptor | then you could do a tag cloud and be all fad-like |
| 19:01:30 | kaen | bitfighter.org/pleiades/tags |
| 19:01:41 | kaen | it's not pretty because it's going to be admin-only |
| 19:01:59 | raptor | excellent |
| 19:02:34 | kaen | cake generated that page, the controller, and the data model automatically with a single command :) |
| 19:02:54 | raptor | co cake! |
| 19:02:57 | raptor | *go |
| 19:04:54 | kaen | maybe later I'll let users make tags on the fly like stackoverflow, but only if the need is demonstrated |
| 19:05:21 | raptor | maybe have a tag request form? |
| 19:07:19 | bobdaduck | hm |
| 19:08:19 | raptor | do we need tags?: CTF, HTF, BM, COR, etc? |
| 19:08:24 | raptor | speaking of which |
| 19:08:34 | raptor | what is the proper acronym for Bitmatch? |
| 19:08:46 | raptor | I've seen BTB, BM, BIT |
| 19:09:06 | bobdaduck | BTB reminds me of "bitbash" |
| 19:09:07 | kaen | BM please |
| 19:09:24 | raptor | also zone control? ZCT ZC |
| 19:09:27 | bobdaduck | ZC |
| 19:09:29 | kaen | ZC |
| 19:09:37 | raptor | ok, so forums should probably reflect this? |
| 19:09:43 | bobdaduck | *shrug* |
| 19:10:13 | kaen | where it's not too much trouble |
| 19:10:33 | kaen | also, we don't need gamemode tags because pleiades parses the game mode (and you can search by it) |
| 19:11:28 | raptor | ok |
| 19:12:18 | bobdaduck | Favorites system? |
| 19:13:31 | kaen | it's on list |
| 19:13:35 | bobdaduck | aight |
| 19:13:48 | kaen | though I don't see the benefits really |
| 19:15:48 | raptor | i don't see the benefits either |
| 19:16:17 | raptor | i think it's enough to be a database, instead of a social networking site |
| 19:18:51 | bobdaduck | Bitfighter needs to become a social networking game |
| 19:19:17 | bobdaduck | We just gotta replace facebook |
| 19:19:22 | bobdaduck | and BOOM! playerbase! |
| 19:19:51 | bobdaduck | Facebook won't be happy about that |
| 19:19:56 | bobdaduck | but nothing a little money can't fix |
| 19:20:08 | kaen | facebit |
| 19:20:23 | bobdaduck | facefighter |
| 19:20:28 | kaen | bitfacer |
| 19:20:36 | bobdaduck | bitbook |
| 19:21:13 | raptor | biteface |
| 19:21:39 | bobdaduck | our forums has a "friends" and "foes" system... |
| 19:21:48 | bobdaduck | ......I have no idea what it actually does but still |
| 19:23:00 | kaen | so config.cpp is an atrocity |
| 19:23:06 | raptor | YUP! |
| 19:23:18 | bobdaduck | I disagree |
| 19:23:22 | bobdaduck | I think its just misunderstood. |
| 19:23:32 | | Watusimoto has joined |
| 19:23:42 | kaen | that's what makes it an atrocity -- I can barely understand it |
| 19:23:49 | bobdaduck | rofl |
| 19:24:17 | kaen | Why not just a 2D string hash? |
| 19:24:43 | kaen | er, hashmap, or map, however you refer to that container |
| 19:25:37 | raptor | I think the basic structure has always been as it is |
| 19:25:47 | raptor | I've made improvements to the IniFile class |
| 19:25:54 | kaen | IniFile is awesome! |
| 19:26:04 | raptor | but only ever added/removed to the config one |
| 19:26:07 | raptor | yeah! |
| 19:26:40 | kaen | (actually I implemented my change using only IniFile... I'm struggling to motivate myself to use config.cpp) |
| 19:26:59 | raptor | ha |
| 19:27:39 | raptor | config is basically just the c++ mapping of the bitfighter.ini |
| 19:28:19 | | Watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 19:28:26 | raptor | using IniFile as the interface to the file and piping into GameSettings for common settings to be used across INI, UI options, and command line |
| 19:28:29 | raptor | (I think) |
| 19:29:13 | kaen | sounds right |
| 19:29:30 | kaen | where I can I stick a BaseURL option for the leveldb? |
| 19:29:32 | kaen | testing? |
| 19:29:36 | kaen | maybe diagnostics? |
| 19:30:05 | raptor | Maybe just under [Settings] |
| 19:30:21 | raptor | it's where teh MasterServerAddressList is |
| 19:31:00 | kaen | ok |
| 19:37:38 | kaen | wow. I have to make a read line, write line, data member and getter (at least) |
| 19:37:53 | kaen | one line turned into almost a dozen |
| 19:38:39 | raptor | heh, yep |
| 19:38:56 | raptor | abstraction... to infinity.. and beyond! |
| 19:40:42 | kaen | obstruction* |
| 19:40:44 | kaen | :) |
| 19:40:53 | bobdaduck | Request for lua API: Ship:setHealth(), ship:isFiring(), ship:setAngle() |
| 19:41:08 | bobdaduck | Also ship:zapDance() |
| 19:42:06 | raptor | setHealth does not work? |
| 19:42:10 | bobdaduck | though that last one admittedly is not a priority |
| 19:42:13 | bobdaduck | I haven't tried it |
| 19:42:16 | bobdaduck | but in the luadocs |
| 19:42:25 | bobdaduck | setHealth() is not documented as part of ship or its parents |
| 19:43:32 | bobdaduck | And personally I say we should make robots a parent of ship instead of the other way around. |
| 19:44:36 | kaen | I not sure you understand inheritance or its implications |
| 19:45:01 | kaen | is there some method you want on ship that is only in robot? |
| 19:45:09 | bobdaduck | I want all robot methods to be on ship |
| 19:45:26 | raptor | uhh |
| 19:45:28 | raptor | like what? |
| 19:45:35 | bobdaduck | setWeapon() |
| 19:45:39 | bobdaduck | setReqLoadout |
| 19:45:42 | bobdaduck | setCurrLoadout |
| 19:45:49 | bobdaduck | engineerDeployObject |
| 19:45:51 | bobdaduck | dropItem |
| 19:46:01 | bobdaduck | findObjects |
| 19:46:05 | | Watusimoto has joined |
| 19:46:06 | raptor | findObject no |
| 19:46:06 | bobdaduck | findGlobalObjects |
| 19:46:10 | raptor | ^^ nope |
| 19:46:16 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 19:46:21 | raptor | those have been added to levelgen |
| 19:46:31 | bobdaduck | fire() |
| 19:46:34 | kaen | the other ones let you basically control a player's ship |
| 19:46:35 | raptor | loadout stuff has been moved |
| 19:46:39 | bobdaduck | setThrust() |
| 19:46:49 | kaen | which is probably why they're on robot in the first place |
| 19:47:03 | raptor | but i'm not sure I think it wise to let the level gen control so much about a players personal ship |
| 19:47:03 | bobdaduck | I want to be able to control a player's ship! |
| 19:47:08 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 19:47:35 | Watusimoto | then write a bot! |
| 19:47:38 | kaen | heh |
| 19:47:52 | bobdaduck | why would I want a bot |
| 19:48:35 | bobdaduck | bots can't control players ships! |
| 19:49:58 | bobdaduck | Also it feels like there's not much use for different kinds of bots because we already have zapdancer and sbot |
| 19:50:34 | kaen | s_bot is certainly not perfect |
| 19:50:55 | bobdaduck | Yeah but any new bots would just be sbot 2.0 |
| 19:51:39 | bobdaduck | I could be wrong about that. But the only other likelyhood I see is dungeons... |
| 19:51:44 | kaen | I disagree. If were to write a bot I would not use s_bot's logic. |
| 19:52:13 | kaen | If I were* |
| 19:52:45 | bobdaduck | But if you wrote a bot, it would do the exact same things as Sbot, wouldn't it? |
| 19:52:56 | kaen | no |
| 19:53:05 | raptor | I wrote a bot once |
| 19:53:12 | kaen | the only similarity would be that they use the same api |
| 19:53:19 | raptor | TerrorBot/SentinelBot |
| 19:54:03 | raptor | bobdaduck: sent another level |
| 19:54:13 | bobdaduck | woah |
| 19:54:15 | bobdaduck | slow down |
| 19:54:17 | bobdaduck | I can't keep up |
| 19:54:24 | kaen | I have kind of a closet fetish for AI. I'd like to write a DBI based bot |
| 19:54:59 | kaen | s_bot is a glorified state machine |
| 19:55:01 | raptor | DBI? |
| 19:55:07 | kaen | desire/belief/intent |
| 19:55:10 | raptor | is that the perl database thinky |
| 19:55:23 | raptor | interesting |
| 19:55:40 | kaen | or goal/constraint/action |
| 19:55:56 | bobdaduck | kaen wants to program a bot that modifies its own code dynamically to become superhuman. Superbot. |
| 19:56:04 | raptor | i've never considered s_bot to be a true state maching, because it keeps reassessing itself after each tick |
| 19:56:10 | raptor | *machine |
| 19:56:23 | raptor | bitfighter will create the singularity |
| 19:56:40 | kaen | bot_bot: the botwriting bot |
| 19:56:47 | bobdaduck | rofl |
| 19:57:40 | raptor | with io. anything is possible! |
| 19:57:46 | kaen | heh |
| 19:57:55 | bobdaduck | bot:addbot(bot) |
| 19:58:34 | raptor | kaen test is super jumpy |
| 19:58:52 | Watusimoto | create a bot that spaws a new bitfighter client to play with |
| 19:59:00 | Watusimoto | io! |
| 20:01:46 | Watusimoto | argh... another 1/2 hour searching for a bug that isn't a bug |
| 20:02:03 | kaen | hm, top says all's well |
| 20:02:20 | Watusimoto | we need to get some testing going on here |
| 20:02:21 | kaen | must be that good-ol VPS network pandemonium |
| 20:02:40 | bobdaduck | I can test |
| 20:02:45 | bobdaduck | but what am I testing? |
| 20:02:47 | Watusimoto | kaen: what is the future for your google testing framework code? |
| 20:02:51 | kaen | he means programmatic testing |
| 20:02:57 | Watusimoto | is it something that can work? |
| 20:03:14 | kaen | that's the solution I'd recommend |
| 20:03:22 | kaen | and it works fine for me |
| 20:03:27 | kaen | just not sure how it would work in vc++ |
| 20:03:28 | Watusimoto | bobdaduck: if I had an automated test in place, I could know in 10 seconds if things were behaving the way they should be |
| 20:03:39 | Watusimoto | you compile with gcc? |
| 20:03:42 | kaen | yes |
| 20:03:54 | kaen | through cmake anyway |
| 20:04:05 | Watusimoto | do you have any specific reason to think it would not work with vc++? |
| 20:04:10 | kaen | the build config is just normal bitfighter + the test files + the gtest lib |
| 20:04:12 | kaen | nope |
| 20:04:17 | kaen | just have no idea how to set it up |
| 20:04:22 | Watusimoto | well then... maybe I should give it a try |
| 20:04:42 | Watusimoto | because I'd rather spend my time writing tests than running through them for the 20th time |
| 20:04:55 | raptor | kaen: i was just on with my brother + 8 bots on 'kompressor's gambit' every few seconds there was some lag |
| 20:05:00 | raptor | and i had like 50 ping |
| 20:05:16 | Watusimoto | where can I find it? |
| 20:05:37 | raptor | ok so not CPU.. |
| 20:05:45 | kaen | https://code.google.com/p/googletest/wiki/Primer |
| 20:06:01 | kaen | that's the docs. it says it has an msvc build file |
| 20:06:28 | raptor | a test framework!? |
| 20:06:34 | raptor | does that mean we're maturing as a project?? |
| 20:06:39 | kaen | it's so awesome. wait until you try it :) |
| 20:07:11 | kaen | nothing build confidence better than a screen full of green terminal output |
| 20:07:27 | bobdaduck | rofl |
| 20:08:34 | Watusimoto | did you write anything specific for bitfighter? |
| 20:08:44 | Watusimoto | or should I just start from the beginning? |
| 20:09:07 | raptor | he has written some stuff I think |
| 20:09:12 | | raptor vaguely remembers a screenshot |
| 20:09:47 | | BFLogBot Commit: 0c7e5626cd28 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Comments |
| 20:09:49 | | BFLogBot Commit: 69456b4df275 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Two-for-one: Fixes loadout bugs, adds new HelpItem functionality (can highlight only team items, can remove items queued for display if player demonstrates competentcy) |
| 20:09:50 | | BFLogBot Commit: be2914be3aec | Author: watusimoto | Message: Merge |
| 20:09:53 | Watusimoto | raptor: anything new in clipper that would be useful? |
| 20:10:00 | Watusimoto | or did you upgrade to stay current? |
| 20:10:08 | kaen | I just wrote a (broken) lua wrapper test |
| 20:10:16 | Watusimoto | ok |
| 20:10:20 | Watusimoto | I'll start fresh then |
| 20:10:54 | kaen | basically, import the folder, add it to a new build target (with the rest of bitfighter and your test .cpp files), include the gtest header in test files, run the new target |
| 20:11:12 | kaen | if link against gtest_main or whatever it'll spit out an executable that autoruns your tests |
| 20:11:16 | kaen | done. |
| 20:12:12 | kaen | took me like ten minutes to set it up last time |
| 20:12:37 | raptor | Watusimoto: partly stay current, but also to play with the new PolyTree structure which outputs polygons in a hierarchy |
| 20:13:18 | Watusimoto | hiearchy: like which poly is inside which other poly? |
| 20:13:22 | raptor | Watusimoto: yes |
| 20:13:29 | kaen | whoa, that's useful |
| 20:13:33 | Watusimoto | that could make dealing with poly2tri's limitations much easier |
| 20:14:07 | raptor | :) |
| 20:16:41 | raptor | the author of poly2tri wrote more on my issue here: https://code.google.com/p/poly2tri/issues/detail?id=74 |
| 20:19:09 | raptor | i got another 3% speed! |
| 20:21:57 | raptor | while->for->for->for |
| 20:23:34 | kaen | on a related note, Go's break statement accepts labels so you can break to any exterior loop |
| 20:23:48 | raptor | yay like java! |
| 20:23:58 | kaen | I didn't know java did too :x |
| 20:26:32 | raptor | man, 4 loops and I keep going infinite |
| 20:26:40 | raptor | time to be smart, i guess |
| 20:30:45 | Watusimoto | hmmm... it must be bedtime. my son asked me to explain A* |
| 20:31:12 | Watusimoto | he knows if he gets me talking 1) he'll stay up later and 2) my wife will yell at me. double win! |
| 20:31:19 | raptor | haha |
| 20:31:32 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 20:34:04 | Watusimoto | good job on the optimiazation! |
| 20:34:24 | kaen | that reminds me: I'm going to profile 019 against 018a on my system |
| 20:34:39 | kaen | 018a runs well below the framerate cap, 019 runs perfectly smooth |
| 20:34:46 | raptor | really?? |
| 20:34:47 | kaen | yeah |
| 20:34:51 | kaen | I think it's the font rendering |
| 20:34:55 | raptor | that's promising.. |
| 20:35:11 | kaen | I have a wussy gpu and those raw gl calls add up.. |
| 20:38:23 | raptor | recast is what really slows us down now... |
| 20:38:29 | raptor | (with zone generation) |
| 20:39:34 | kaen | recast is only called once, isn't it? |
| 20:39:40 | raptor | yeah, at start of level |
| 20:39:44 | kaen | oh okay |
| 20:39:46 | raptor | (sorry, change topics a bit) |
| 20:39:50 | kaen | gotcha |
| 20:51:17 | kaen | lol there's someone in #nethack with the nick BilldaCat |
| 20:51:23 | kaen | bob, you and him should hang out some time |
| 20:51:27 | raptor | hahaha |
| 20:52:06 | bobdaduck | rofl |
| 20:52:45 | | bobdaduck joins #nethack |
| 20:59:07 | kaen | bobdaduck what have you done: http://bitfighter.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1941 |
| 20:59:20 | bobdaduck | I bribed |
| 20:59:29 | bobdaduck | uh |
| 20:59:33 | bobdaduck | erm |
| 20:59:35 | bobdaduck | I ADMIT NOTHING |
| 21:02:45 | raptor | what on earth |
| 21:02:57 | raptor | is that what that photo was for? I don't even get the connection... |
| 21:03:28 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 21:28:12 | kaen | hmm. it's time to get serious. I think I'm going to add caching to pleiades today |
| 21:28:21 | raptor | NOOOooooo |
| 21:28:30 | kaen | suicidal, I know |
| 21:28:35 | raptor | please no |
| 21:28:38 | raptor | please please please |
| 21:28:54 | kaen | and it's quite likely that I'll be driven mad from what I'll experience |
| 21:28:57 | raptor | unless of course you need to teach yourself about caching |
| 21:29:13 | kaen | well, I've never done it before |
| 21:29:29 | bobdaduck | rofl |
| 21:29:31 | bobdaduck | why caching? |
| 21:29:39 | raptor | ok - are you talking about 1st or 2nd level data caching? |
| 21:29:44 | kaen | because pleiades is slooooooow on bitfighter.org |
| 21:29:57 | kaen | heh, I don't even know enough to know the difference |
| 21:30:12 | kaen | but I'm talking about caching generated portions of the view server-side |
| 21:30:16 | kaen | ideally with APC |
| 21:30:28 | raptor | ah ok |
| 21:30:30 | raptor | 1st level |
| 21:30:33 | raptor | that's not so bad |
| 21:30:38 | kaen | what's 2nd level? |
| 21:30:38 | raptor | I give you my blessing |
| 21:30:41 | raptor | uhh |
| 21:30:54 | raptor | 2nd level is where you cache across multiple servers |
| 21:31:03 | kaen | oh haha |
| 21:31:11 | raptor | and its... uhh... I'm never touching it again |
| 21:31:56 | kaen | hmm... all of the fun of caching, plus the fun of network conditions and multiple agents |
| 21:32:27 | raptor | yeah - it's so horrid, that unless you're Google or Facebook, and are serving millions of people, don't do it |
| 21:33:07 | kaen | yeah, I imagine you'd need to have a lot of machines to make a time profit over the network stuff |
| 21:34:04 | kaen | anyway, with your blessing I begin my pilgrimage |
| 21:34:15 | raptor | cool |
| 21:38:03 | | koda has joined |
| 21:46:49 | raptor | kaen: there were two php solutions, if I remember correctly |
| 21:46:56 | raptor | memcache was one |
| 21:47:04 | raptor | can't remember the name of the other |
| 21:47:41 | raptor | and by 'two solutions' I mean two that could handle the speed and traffic of a medium sized company with the 1st level data cache |
| 21:48:18 | Watusimoto | I have a test running! |
| 21:48:24 | raptor | !! |
| 21:48:26 | Watusimoto | and indeed 1 does equal 1! |
| 21:48:34 | Watusimoto | my computer works! |
| 21:48:43 | Watusimoto | well... it's a start |
| 21:52:09 | Watusimoto | now I have a test that uses a point |
| 21:54:13 | kaen | awesome! |
| 21:54:24 | kaen | I'm so pumped to have a test framework in bitfighter |
| 21:57:07 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 22:03:30 | raptor | back later! |
| 22:03:33 | | raptor Quit () |
| 22:16:37 | Watusimoto | I hate vc++ |
| 22:28:13 | | bobdaduck Quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 22:58:55 | Watusimoto | finally |
| 22:59:09 | Watusimoto | linker errors are the product of satan |
| 22:59:20 | Watusimoto | designed to test the purity of man |
| 23:20:58 | | BFLogBot Commit: db9b04cb56b6 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Check in testing framework for VC++; not at all sure I got everything. Tried to only include essentials. |
| 23:30:37 | | koda Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
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| 23:49:09 | | ChanServ sets mode +o raptor |
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