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| 12:27:13 | raptor | good day! |
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| 14:31:13 | bobdaduck_m | wheeee |
| 14:31:23 | raptor | hello |
| 14:32:00 | bobdaduck_m | howdy |
| 14:32:20 | raptor | did you make it in time for your brother's stuff last night? |
| 14:32:45 | bobdaduck_m | nah but everyone is okay with that |
| 14:33:12 | bobdaduck_m | I went country dancing instead |
| 14:34:04 | raptor | now i feel silly about ever thinking i was kepping you from a family thing... |
| 14:34:11 | raptor | *keeping |
| 14:34:21 | bobdaduck_m | I probably could have still made it but didn't really try |
| 14:34:43 | bobdaduck_m | "keeping me" |
| 14:35:14 | raptor | since i hijackedaduck for a day... |
| 14:35:20 | bobdaduck_m | silly, its obviously my choice :P |
| 14:35:52 | | bobdaduck_m is now known as hijackdaduck |
| 14:36:15 | raptor | hah |
| 14:37:13 | raptor | well my sister-in-law had a great time at the festival and was glad you provided a ride |
| 14:37:47 | hijackdaduck | twas fun |
| 14:41:15 | raptor | what did your family think about spending the day with strangers? |
| 14:41:33 | hijackdaduck | "cool" |
| 14:41:37 | hijackdaduck | xD |
| 14:41:43 | raptor | heh |
| 14:46:35 | hijackdaduck | they weren't really opinionated on it. |
| 14:47:11 | hijackdaduck | I could ask you the same |
| 14:47:49 | raptor | same here |
| 14:48:49 | raptor | I guess I'm the oddball who didn't grow up trusting people... |
| 14:49:04 | hijackdaduck | lol |
| 14:56:01 | hijackdaduck | so can I get logbot to keep track of my todo list for me now? |
| 14:57:57 | raptor | well.. is your list really that long? |
| 14:58:25 | hijackdaduck | well no. |
| 14:58:44 | hijackdaduck | five items right now I think |
| 14:59:58 | hijackdaduck | but convenience! |
| 15:01:19 | raptor | so there's this old joke about how NASA spent millions of dollars on developing a pen to write upside down in space - and the russians decided to use a pencil |
| 15:01:54 | hijackdaduck | lol |
| 15:02:25 | hijackdaduck | could I do it myself? |
| 15:03:00 | raptor | Yes I think so, but since it's in python you'd have to learn a little different syntax... |
| 15:03:12 | raptor | maybe you'd want to build your own bot? |
| 15:03:27 | hijackdaduck | duckbot |
| 15:04:17 | hijackdaduck | that sounds significantly harder... |
| 15:04:53 | raptor | hey Watusimoto, I have a sister-in-law studying geology who wants to get into GIS, and then realized she'd have to learn programming |
| 15:05:09 | raptor | I started her on "Snake Wrangling for Kids" |
| 15:05:14 | Watusimoto | great |
| 15:05:28 | Watusimoto | you can do a lot in gis with little programming |
| 15:06:15 | Watusimoto | if she's a geologist, she'll probably be working for the gov't or large company, using arcgis. if you program with that, they use python and vb, depending on the context |
| 15:06:27 | raptor | yes, she mentioned arcgis |
| 15:06:32 | Watusimoto | but really, most gis people don't know programming |
| 15:06:37 | Watusimoto | and get along fine |
| 15:06:37 | raptor | and that's why I thought python would be a good start.. |
| 15:06:44 | raptor | ok |
| 15:06:55 | Watusimoto | but... if you do know it, you can awe your colleagues |
| 15:06:56 | raptor | I never took a look at the field, but I knew a little about programming... |
| 15:07:04 | raptor | hah |
| 15:07:04 | | hijackdaduck Quit () |
| 15:07:32 | Watusimoto | one other aspect to remmeber, is that if you are programming in the arcgis environment, you will be doing one of three things |
| 15:07:54 | Watusimoto | 1) reformatting data, other one-off scripting things where one language is as good as another |
| 15:08:08 | raptor | :) |
| 15:08:08 | Watusimoto | 2) extending the ui to add a new command or what not, using vba |
| 15:08:34 | Watusimoto | or 3) programming with python, using thier hugely complex object model |
| 15:09:00 | raptor | so API plugging |
| 15:09:21 | Watusimoto | that 3rd one will require understanding object models, and specifically theirs; yes, api plugging, sort of like xxx# and the ms object |
| 15:09:39 | raptor | yikes |
| 15:09:47 | Watusimoto | their model is HUGE |
| 15:10:02 | Watusimoto | it was, and may still be, the largest COM system ever created |
| 15:10:32 | Watusimoto | to be fair, it does a lot of stuff |
| 15:10:40 | Watusimoto | but it is also buggy as hell |
| 15:10:55 | Watusimoto | and I always found it hard to understand |
| 15:11:08 | Watusimoto | due to the complexity, I guess |
| 15:11:59 | Watusimoto | when I last used it, I was the only person who could do any coding at all, so I was seen as The Man |
| 15:12:09 | raptor | hahaha |
| 15:12:50 | Watusimoto | but if you really want to break her brain, get her to try to understand spatial reference systems and coordinate systems and projections |
| 15:13:23 | Watusimoto | these are hugely important and relevant to a lot of tasks, but are really complicated |
| 15:13:43 | raptor | well, she loves maps, and has started getting interested in the finer points of GPS |
| 15:13:54 | Watusimoto | that's how I got sucked in |
| 15:14:23 | Watusimoto | the field has changed a lot in some ways due to things like google maps |
| 15:14:45 | raptor | :) |
| 15:15:14 | raptor | I bet |
| 15:15:33 | Watusimoto | the things that used to be my bread and butter can be done by any idiot in a browser now |
| 15:16:16 | raptor | and that's where programming gives you an edge, I bet... |
| 15:18:21 | Watusimoto | yes, probably. if she wants to be a geologist, python would look good on a resume, but might never be used; if she wants to be a programmer, it's a pretty hot field, especially in the web arena |
| 15:19:01 | Watusimoto | and there is tons of work as a consultant within the arcgis arena |
| 15:19:13 | Watusimoto | or a contractor |
| 15:20:03 | Watusimoto | running the gamut from installing/configuring, through database management, web stuff, custom tool development, spatial database design, etc. |
| 15:20:03 | raptor | hmmm |
| 15:20:19 | Watusimoto | none specifially related to geology, however :-) |
| 15:20:35 | raptor | well, she has a rock collection.. |
| 15:20:43 | Watusimoto | excellent! |
| 15:20:59 | Watusimoto | you mean like AC/DC, Aerosmith, etc.? |
| 15:21:11 | raptor | she has mostly been following in her father's footsteps, who is a 'geophysicist' for Chevron |
| 15:21:21 | Watusimoto | or like "red rock", "greenish rock", "crystal like thing" etc. |
| 15:21:40 | Watusimoto | ah, petroleum engineer |
| 15:21:50 | Watusimoto | well, probably not the same |
| 15:21:59 | raptor | those are roughnecks |
| 15:22:17 | Watusimoto | I worked for Shell once |
| 15:22:26 | Watusimoto | would probably not do it again |
| 15:22:37 | raptor | neither would my father-in-law |
| 15:22:46 | Watusimoto | I considered what I was doing pretty unethical, in the larger sense |
| 15:23:06 | Watusimoto | though in many ways, the project was well thought out and well managed |
| 15:23:09 | raptor | according to him, there's oil company culture |
| 15:23:22 | raptor | and some companies he thought were more ethical than others in various aspects |
| 15:23:35 | Watusimoto | totally true |
| 15:24:43 | Watusimoto | shell was pretty good in many small ways -- looking for ways to minimize impact on the local population, for example... but at the same time destroying the world |
| 15:25:01 | Watusimoto | but that's a problem endemic to the industry |
| 15:26:47 | raptor | well, we're an oil-hungry society |
| 15:27:09 | raptor | I can't justify some of the crazy things done |
| 15:28:02 | raptor | but our even our food system is basically oil-to-corn |
| 15:28:11 | Watusimoto | yes, it is |
| 15:28:44 | Watusimoto | we are an oil hungry society, that is undeniable (well, and coal-hungry as well). But I beleive the fix is simple. |
| 15:28:55 | raptor | oh? |
| 15:29:02 | Watusimoto | (forgive me if I've already gone down this road with you) |
| 15:29:09 | raptor | I don't remember.. |
| 15:29:17 | raptor | home gardens! |
| 15:30:23 | Watusimoto | a predictable, gradually increasing carbon tax, with the proceeds either 1) reducing income tax rates or 2) returned to the popuation as a grant (similar to Alaska and oil money) to be used to pay the increased cost of energy |
| 15:30:33 | Watusimoto | so no growth in government |
| 15:31:01 | raptor | gradually increasing == higher the more you use? |
| 15:31:06 | Watusimoto | but now people are getting some money, and can spend it as they do now to pay for the more expensive power/fuel |
| 15:31:26 | Watusimoto | (no predictably increasing the rate over time; but it would be a flat rate) |
| 15:31:50 | raptor | ah, to force people as a whole to become more energy-usage conscious |
| 15:31:52 | Watusimoto | or they can look for ways to use less/more efficiently and pocket the difference. It would be their choice. |
| 15:32:02 | raptor | interesting.. |
| 15:32:30 | Watusimoto | those who want to conserve can profit, and those who don't would get some offsetting |
| 15:32:51 | Watusimoto | though I think that entire industries would spring up to help people use less |
| 15:33:06 | Watusimoto | I think it would have a very rapid and beneficial effect on the economy |
| 15:33:11 | Watusimoto | and the environment |
| 15:33:39 | Watusimoto | I would further tax all imports based on their carbon footprint |
| 15:33:40 | raptor | yes, I've always thought that with the increase in processing power, we could do much better at being efficient with power usage |
| 15:33:59 | Watusimoto | and refund the carbon tax to exports to places with lower/no carbon tax |
| 15:34:20 | Watusimoto | so as to not tilt things in favor of foreign competitors |
| 15:34:29 | Watusimoto | it's a simple, totally market based solution |
| 15:34:37 | Watusimoto | no picking winners/losers |
| 15:34:53 | raptor | so when you say 'carbon', my head never computed that very well... because I think it sort of means 'carbon-dioxide' - which is not the only (although greatest) pollutant |
| 15:34:54 | Watusimoto | no growth in government |
| 15:35:30 | Watusimoto | true; ideally, it would cover co2 production and methane release, perhaps other gasses as well. But the big one is CO2 |
| 15:35:57 | Watusimoto | measuring CO2 footprint is easy |
| 15:36:02 | raptor | and CO? sulfates, -ites; nitrates, -ites? |
| 15:36:04 | Watusimoto | methane is harder |
| 15:36:30 | Watusimoto | we already have a regime in place for those other items, so I would not cover those here |
| 15:36:53 | raptor | ah ok |
| 15:36:54 | Watusimoto | but reduce coal consumption, and you'll fix SOx and NOx a great deal |
| 15:37:04 | raptor | oh yeah |
| 15:37:15 | raptor | but... China... |
| 15:37:17 | Watusimoto | and coal would be the first to go |
| 15:37:45 | raptor | i guess that's where your tarriff system would come into play.. |
| 15:37:47 | Watusimoto | yes, china. I believe that moving us forward on the energy front would be a net good for us regardless of what china does |
| 15:38:12 | Watusimoto | we would be the leaders in efficiency/alternative energies/whatever |
| 15:38:25 | Watusimoto | that would help us in other areas of the world |
| 15:38:39 | raptor | and that I think would definitely be good |
| 15:38:41 | Watusimoto | and it would let us push china forward from the high ground, not the low ground we currently occupy |
| 15:40:09 | Watusimoto | so what if this idea were presented as a way to reduce income tax? theoretically, republicans should love it (but of course they won't). tax what you want less of (CO2), not what you want more of (income) |
| 15:40:16 | raptor | i worry our social system isn't robust enough to handle the increasing prices... |
| 15:40:40 | Watusimoto | but the money gets returned to the people, so that will help offset the increasing prices |
| 15:40:46 | raptor | and by 'social system' I'm specifically referring to those who don't pay taxes already.. |
| 15:41:15 | Watusimoto | most of us pay taxes -- that argument only works when you limit "taxes" to "federal income tax" |
| 15:42:50 | Watusimoto | anyone who rents/owns a house pays property tax (directly or indirectly). anyone who drives pays gas tax and registration taxes (depending on state), most of us pay sales tax. etc. |
| 15:43:20 | raptor | yes, ok, i see that |
| 15:43:53 | Watusimoto | but, that issue aside, I think we could manage the change |
| 15:44:27 | Watusimoto | it would have to kick in slowly to give pople time to adjust |
| 15:45:00 | Watusimoto | I'd want to start it at a pretty low rate, but with a predictable, well understood growth factor so people could plan |
| 15:45:25 | raptor | ok |
| 15:46:07 | Watusimoto | if you know that gas will always be getting more expensive, it will affect your next car purchase. Knowing this, the market will respond with more efficient vehicles of all sizes. |
| 15:46:30 | raptor | but the money is returned? |
| 15:46:43 | Watusimoto | that's what I would do |
| 15:46:50 | raptor | at least in the effect of reducing taxes, etc... |
| 15:47:06 | Watusimoto | my ideal would be to take the total pot, divide by population, and that's your payout |
| 15:47:18 | Watusimoto | personaly, I'd leave income taxes out of it |
| 15:47:24 | raptor | ah ok |
| 15:47:29 | raptor | i see the incentive now - |
| 15:47:43 | Watusimoto | but I see an income tax offset as a way to sell it to those who might otherwise resist. |
| 15:47:50 | raptor | everyone gets a chunk back, but if you're wise, you'll get back more than you've paid in energy usage |
| 15:48:12 | Watusimoto | I think it would be far less optimal, but I'd be willing to accept that because I think the bigger idea is so powerful |
| 15:48:17 | Watusimoto | exactly |
| 15:48:43 | Watusimoto | I'd sure try to make sure that was true for me :-) |
| 15:48:55 | raptor | so how would businesses factor in? Like datacenters... man, imagine the power consumption of Google datacenters |
| 15:48:59 | raptor | heh |
| 15:49:01 | raptor | (me too) |
| 15:49:06 | Watusimoto | google would pay more for their power |
| 15:49:13 | Watusimoto | if it came from a carbon-based source |
| 15:49:20 | raptor | ok |
| 15:49:22 | raptor | ok ok ok |
| 15:49:23 | Watusimoto | but you can be pretty sure they'd find a better way to power it |
| 15:49:29 | raptor | I'm still thinking 'energy', not carbon |
| 15:49:33 | Watusimoto | and look pretty hard at how to use less |
| 15:49:37 | raptor | but you think 'carbon' |
| 15:49:41 | Watusimoto | solar, wind, hydro would be tax free |
| 15:49:45 | raptor | ahhh |
| 15:49:57 | Watusimoto | nuclear too |
| 15:50:24 | Watusimoto | (though I don't really like nuclear) |
| 15:50:49 | Watusimoto | you could probably scrap all those auto mileage rules as well |
| 15:50:52 | raptor | I 'like' nuclear, but understand there are some serious issues that still need to solved... |
| 15:52:23 | raptor | seems like we still need some way of generating that much 'clean' power without the risk of damaging everything for generations to come... |
| 15:52:55 | Watusimoto | yes; but we can do a lot with efficiency alone |
| 15:53:05 | raptor | i wholeheartedly agree |
| 15:53:23 | raptor | which would reduce dependence on nuclear |
| 15:53:32 | raptor | *dependance |
| 15:53:35 | Watusimoto | I live in a new apartment here in Luxembourg, not even built to the highest energy effiencty levels |
| 15:53:57 | Watusimoto | in fact, I'd say it's more-or-less standard modern construction (albiet european modern) |
| 15:54:08 | Watusimoto | you know what my heating bill was last winter? |
| 15:54:10 | raptor | don't even get me started on how much heat my roof leaks... |
| 15:54:16 | raptor | what? |
| 15:54:16 | Watusimoto | (a long, cold winter) |
| 15:54:18 | Watusimoto | $0 |
| 15:54:23 | raptor | what |
| 15:54:27 | raptor | no way |
| 15:54:27 | Watusimoto | I've never even turned on my heat here |
| 15:54:36 | raptor | really?! |
| 15:54:38 | Watusimoto | that's what effiency can do |
| 15:54:42 | Watusimoto | really |
| 15:54:46 | raptor | that's awesome! |
| 15:55:40 | raptor | so... what are your walls made of? and do you have windows? :) |
| 15:55:46 | Watusimoto | I hae a colleage who built a new house in Germany; he built it to be efficient, and, unlike my apartment, it is a single-family structure. he says in the winter they sometimes need to heat it, and do that with a small alcohol powered burner |
| 15:56:21 | Watusimoto | I compare that to how cold my house in portland is, even with lots of upgraded insulation |
| 15:56:26 | Watusimoto | it's ridiculous |
| 15:57:25 | Watusimoto | so efficiency isn't the total solution, but it puts other solutions much more within reach |
| 15:58:04 | raptor | so... what are these walls made of? heat reflecting mirrors? |
| 15:58:10 | Watusimoto | and the only real way to get people to be more effieicnt is to raise the price |
| 15:58:26 | raptor | yep, money is the proper motivator... |
| 15:58:26 | Watusimoto | that's what people respond to |
| 15:59:35 | Watusimoto | so I think my tax solution would work -- it is simple to understand, predictable, so you can plan for it, and would drive people to do the 'right thing' for the right reasons... i.e. selfishness, the only thing that motivates people in the long term |
| 15:59:53 | raptor | haha, yep |
| 16:00:40 | Watusimoto | btw, modern construction here is mostly concrete (very CO2 intensive, sadly), with about 6" of styrofoam insluation on the outside |
| 16:01:22 | Watusimoto | then everything is sealed up, with some sort of membrane/barrier (not sure if it transmits moisture) then stuccoed over |
| 16:01:35 | Watusimoto | but the key is that everything is tightly sealed, no leaks |
| 16:01:57 | Watusimoto | if they puncture the membrane, they will carefully repair the tear with tape |
| 16:02:10 | raptor | huh |
| 16:02:14 | Watusimoto | and everything is caulked or plugged with spray foam |
| 16:02:17 | raptor | what about windows? |
| 16:02:25 | Watusimoto | the windows are awesome |
| 16:02:39 | raptor | because windows are the huge issue in every place I've lived in... |
| 16:02:40 | Watusimoto | mine are double glazed, but seal very tightly when cloased |
| 16:02:42 | Watusimoto | no leaks |
| 16:03:31 | raptor | what does 'double-glazed' mean here? |
| 16:04:44 | Watusimoto | double paned |
| 16:04:53 | Watusimoto | here is a video that shows how they operate |
| 16:04:54 | Watusimoto | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-slOkMWOdBw |
| 16:04:59 | raptor | filled with some sort of gas? |
| 16:05:04 | Watusimoto | windows start at around 30s |
| 16:05:06 | raptor | oooo a video... |
| 16:05:07 | Watusimoto | probaobly |
| 16:05:09 | Watusimoto | argon? |
| 16:05:15 | Watusimoto | my windows in the us are filled with argon |
| 16:05:33 | raptor | we've got lots of noble gas here in the mountains! |
| 16:05:35 | Watusimoto | mostly for condensation purposes, i think |
| 16:05:43 | Watusimoto | radon windows! |
| 16:07:05 | raptor | cool german windows! |
| 16:07:20 | Watusimoto | and all the windows have external shutters that keep the heat out in the summer |
| 16:07:30 | Watusimoto | and give total privacy and darkness if you want it |
| 16:08:13 | Watusimoto | you can get those windows in the us, but they are speeeendy |
| 16:09:10 | raptor | are they not as expensive in EU? |
| 16:11:50 | Watusimoto | every house has them, so I imagine they are not too bad |
| 16:12:02 | Watusimoto | and I mean every house, office, hotel, etc. |
| 16:12:21 | Watusimoto | they are probably expensive in the us because they are imported |
| 16:12:33 | Watusimoto | I don't know if anyone maeks them domestically |
| 16:13:13 | Watusimoto | that said, windows are always expensive |
| 16:13:16 | Watusimoto | everywhere |
| 16:13:33 | Watusimoto | I replaced nearly all mine in my house in Portland... big bucks! |
| 16:14:54 | raptor | yeah |
| 16:15:23 | raptor | well, I'm always on the look out for more efficient upgrades to our home, but they're always prohibitively expensive for my income |
| 16:15:50 | Watusimoto | attic insulation is the cheapest, best bang for your buck |
| 16:16:02 | Watusimoto | depending on ehat you've got up there |
| 16:16:12 | raptor | a mouse or two, probably... |
| 16:16:15 | Watusimoto | ha |
| 16:16:24 | Watusimoto | some people have a finished attic |
| 16:16:49 | Watusimoto | but I blew in insulation into mine when I first bought the house... rented the equipment, and did it myself for abtou $100 |
| 16:16:57 | Watusimoto | that made a big difference |
| 16:17:02 | raptor | that's great! |
| 16:17:50 | Watusimoto | plugging air leaks can also be cheap; especailly around power outlets on external walls |
| 16:17:56 | Watusimoto | we had a lot of big leaks there |
| 16:18:03 | raptor | yeah, I realized we had a problem when we got 4-6 foot icecycles... |
| 16:18:11 | Watusimoto | fixed most of that for $8 in caulk |
| 16:18:28 | Watusimoto | or spray in foam insulatino |
| 16:18:45 | raptor | I think i'd need to do that on our windows... I found several 'holes' on our basement well window |
| 16:19:13 | Watusimoto | you can also use that plastic window insulation/covers |
| 16:19:21 | Watusimoto | (know what I mean?) |
| 16:19:33 | Watusimoto | it's nearly transparent when finished, and works really well |
| 16:19:34 | raptor | i already do - $15 a year saves me like $100 in heating costs |
| 16:19:38 | Watusimoto | exactly |
| 16:19:52 | Watusimoto | I had a couple of windows where I left it on permanently |
| 16:20:16 | Watusimoto | you can also get foam gaskets for your outlets |
| 16:20:25 | raptor | the outdoor ones? |
| 16:20:35 | Watusimoto | the ones on an exterior wall |
| 16:20:44 | Watusimoto | they sit inside, behind the face plate |
| 16:20:50 | Watusimoto | completely invisible |
| 16:20:56 | raptor | ohh... even those? |
| 16:21:08 | raptor | interesting, i've never thought of those as culprits |
| 16:21:16 | raptor | makes sense, though |
| 16:21:31 | Watusimoto | I used to go around with an incense stick, trying to see where the wind was coming from |
| 16:21:42 | raptor | haha |
| 16:21:57 | Watusimoto | I don;t know if that's really the best way... even after fixing a lot of stuff, my house was still cold |
| 16:22:19 | Watusimoto | whenever I've ahd work done on the outside walls, I've had insulation put in |
| 16:22:48 | Watusimoto | you can blow it into the walls if there's none in there now |
| 16:22:51 | Watusimoto | that's pretty easy |
| 16:23:15 | Watusimoto | well, you'd probably get a contractor to do it |
| 16:23:57 | Watusimoto | but I'll tell you -- after living here, I want a warm house I do not have to heat |
| 16:24:03 | Watusimoto | and I know it can be done |
| 16:24:19 | Watusimoto | just probably not with an existing structure |
| 16:24:23 | raptor | that sounds so nice... |
| 16:25:00 | Watusimoto | to be fair, we are in an apartment, and have other (probably heated) apartments on all sides |
| 16:25:27 | Watusimoto | so that helps a lot |
| 16:25:38 | Watusimoto | even if they were unheated, they'd still be a big barrier to heat loss |
| 16:26:42 | Watusimoto | all houses here (for rent or for sale) have to have an energy rating, so you knwo what you're getting |
| 16:26:50 | Watusimoto | ranges from A++ - F |
| 16:26:56 | Watusimoto | (or something) |
| 16:27:07 | raptor | that might help some in the markets here.. |
| 16:27:21 | Watusimoto | that's an incentive to landlords to upgrade their rental stock |
| 16:27:39 | Watusimoto | in the US, landlords have no incentive at all, as they don;t pay for heat |
| 16:27:52 | Watusimoto | and tenants are very limited in what they can do |
| 16:27:53 | raptor | we called them 'slumlords' when I was a single student... |
| 16:27:59 | Watusimoto | indeed |
| 16:28:19 | Watusimoto | amazing what students will put up with |
| 16:28:31 | raptor | haha, so true.. |
| 16:28:55 | Watusimoto | I look at the places I lived... |
| 16:28:57 | Watusimoto | blech! |
| 16:29:10 | Watusimoto | but cheap! |
| 16:31:08 | Watusimoto | pallettes for coffe table! |
| 16:31:17 | Watusimoto | cardboard box for end table! |
| 16:31:31 | raptor | that might've been worse than my apartments... |
| 16:31:45 | Watusimoto | $5 tv with big chip in the glass! |
| 16:31:53 | Watusimoto | (b&w, of course!) |
| 16:32:01 | raptor | we'd go dumpster diving at the end of every semester, hoping to get scraps of halfway decent furniture from the rich-kids apartments... |
| 16:32:33 | Watusimoto | yeah, I was speaking about the apartment I had when I was out of college and working at my first professional job |
| 16:32:41 | Watusimoto | my college apartments were... worse |
| 16:32:49 | Watusimoto | we had one with no living room, so we put a couch in the bathroom |
| 16:32:53 | Watusimoto | and put the tv there |
| 16:32:56 | raptor | hahaha |
| 16:32:59 | Watusimoto | and the vido games and such |
| 16:33:11 | Watusimoto | you coun't use the toilet if someone was getting a high score |
| 16:33:22 | raptor | the horror!! |
| 16:33:30 | Watusimoto | we had standards! |
| 16:35:47 | Watusimoto | well, I reworked how one of our menus worked, and wrote some tests, and I'm glad I did, because it has made debugging my crappy code much easier |
| 16:36:47 | raptor | I need to start writing tests... |
| 16:36:56 | raptor | I ened start writing anything, actually... |
| 16:37:02 | raptor | *need |
| 16:37:12 | raptor | been too busy with work/life (new baby and all) |
| 16:37:22 | Watusimoto | no problem at all |
| 16:38:05 | | bobdaduck has joined |
| 16:40:51 | Watusimoto | I find having the framework for testing is very helpful; I am not just writing tests for the heck of it, but rather to prove to myself that my code works. if the code is simple, I don't test it. only where I'm not sure I did it right |
| 16:41:30 | raptor | yeah, I do unit testing at work for new Java applications - but it's rare |
| 16:41:45 | raptor | because I maintain so many old ones |
| 16:41:50 | raptor | I need to get into the habit.. |
| 16:42:37 | Watusimoto | testing this new code would have made me crazy if I did it manually |
| 16:42:50 | Watusimoto | because I've found so many problems with my implementatin |
| 16:44:13 | Watusimoto | finally! all tests pass! |
| 16:44:35 | Watusimoto | now to try it for real |
| 17:21:27 | raptor | what project are you working on? |
| 17:23:17 | Watusimoto | working on making the editor level selection nicer |
| 17:23:23 | raptor | ah |
| 17:23:26 | Watusimoto | when you enter editor and need to specify name |
| 17:23:31 | raptor | are you aware of kaen's changes? |
| 17:23:41 | Watusimoto | I don;t really care about it at the moment, but want to get it off the list |
| 17:23:42 | Watusimoto | and no |
| 17:23:48 | Watusimoto | what are his changes? |
| 17:24:00 | raptor | up/down cycles levels, left/right moves cursor, ctrl+w deletes a word |
| 17:24:11 | raptor | you can edit names inline |
| 17:24:20 | Watusimoto | ok, great... what I'm planning probably won't impact that much |
| 17:24:25 | raptor | ah ok |
| 17:24:45 | Watusimoto | so far it's just improving the way you select names on the in-game level selector |
| 17:25:17 | raptor | ah ok |
| 17:27:10 | | Watusimoto_ has joined |
| 17:29:26 | | Watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 17:36:16 | Watusimoto_ | whoops! |
| 17:36:39 | Watusimoto_ | anway... now you can start typing a full name and jump to that entry |
| 17:36:46 | Watusimoto_ | instead of just selecting by first letter |
| 17:59:35 | raptor | cool |
| 18:17:48 | Watusimoto_ | well, done for tonight... you can try it out if you like |
| 18:18:19 | raptor | ok |
| 18:18:44 | | BFLogBot Commit: 151c4c328e7a | Author: watusimoto | Message: Add new function (with tests!) to string utils; returns if a string consists of a single repeated character |
| 18:18:45 | | BFLogBot Commit: 00680ca167cb | Author: watusimoto | Message: Improve selection of levels on in-game level menus... can now start typing full name of level to get there, not just iterating through the options by first letter, as is currently the case (however, that still mostly works). This mirrors how things are done in the VC++ file selection, and seems to be similar to most modern UIs. Includes tests. |
| 18:18:47 | | BFLogBot Commit: d7001718e813 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Remove dead code |
| 18:18:48 | | BFLogBot Commit: bcd9cceea15b | Author: watusimoto | Message: Probably trivial optimization |
| 18:18:50 | | BFLogBot Commit: 6e010388afb1 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Fix endless loop |
| 18:18:51 | | BFLogBot Commit: a65fdd76fa89 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Merge |
| 18:18:56 | Watusimoto_ | night! |
| 18:19:00 | raptor | night! |
| 18:24:02 | | Watusimoto_ Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 19:41:54 | | Skybax has joined |
| 20:22:17 | raptor | bobdaduck: I found a Lua irc bot that works well... |
| 20:22:32 | raptor | let me see if I can bundle it with the proper libraries so you can run it.. |
| 20:31:18 | raptor | if you're interested... |
| 21:00:27 | raptor | actually, this is a little more complicated than I'd hoped... hmmm |
| 21:04:24 | raptor | 10 contest levels! |
| 21:37:34 | Skybax | Yay! |
| 22:08:19 | bobdaduck | OKAYBACK |
| 22:18:36 | raptor | so i'm thinking about refactoring s_bot |
| 22:18:46 | raptor | and implementing 'personalities' |
| 22:19:13 | raptor | using the bots in Unreal Tournament (UT99) as examples - |
| 22:21:13 | raptor | they have attributes like: accuracy, alertness (not sure how this will work), camping, strafing, style(normal, bezerk, aggressive, cautious, avoidant), jumpiness, favorite weapon |
| 22:21:34 | | Flynnn has joined |
| 22:22:13 | bobdaduck | We can't do favorite weapon |
| 22:22:39 | raptor | how come? (I think I know why, just want to hear your reason..) |
| 22:23:46 | bobdaduck | Because the way the game *should* be, all weapons should be situational and niche, not "this one is like a phaser except its red" |
| 22:23:57 | raptor | heh |
| 22:24:04 | raptor | or green! |
| 22:24:19 | bobdaduck | no way, green would be OP |
| 22:24:21 | raptor | yep - weapon balancing was my guess... |
| 22:24:44 | | Skybax Quit (Quit: Skybax) |
| 22:26:10 | raptor | so no favorite weapon |
| 22:26:13 | bobdaduck | yeah |
| 22:26:21 | bobdaduck | S_bot already sort of has attributes |
| 22:26:29 | raptor | circley-circle |
| 22:26:38 | bobdaduck | can the s_bot refacctor wait for after 019 though? |
| 22:26:45 | raptor | sure |
| 22:26:51 | raptor | it's just i'm stuck on something... |
| 22:26:57 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 22:27:00 | raptor | :) |
| 22:28:41 | raptor | ooo... maybe i solved my problem |
| 22:28:54 | raptor | (this will let bots call addItem() by-the-way) |
| 22:29:33 | bobdaduck | lolwhat |
| 22:29:42 | bobdaduck | THIS IS A VERY BA- great idea! |
| 22:29:46 | bobdaduck | *starts learning bot coding* |
| 22:29:49 | raptor | haha |
| 23:36:17 | | bobdaduck Quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:45:08 | | raptor Quit () |