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| 01:31:33 | tjcarter | I need to figure out if that joystick crash is because of MMJoystick… |
| 01:32:54 | tjcarter | I am kinda suspicious it may be. If so, it's one more reason to kill that flaming turd once and for all. :) |
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| 02:45:57 | tjcarter | watusimoto: tag, you're it. |
| 02:58:07 | tjcarter | I'm betting it crashes in SDL_SYS_JoystickQuit |
| 03:03:36 | tjcarter | In fact, if you're using the MMJoystick version, it has a double-free bug. |
| 03:04:42 | tjcarter | src/joystick/windows/SDL_mmjoystick.c, line 398 |
| 03:05:09 | tjcarter | Compare to line 156 and what follows. |
| 03:07:37 | tjcarter | There is no guarantee that every value in that array has a string, even an empty string, allocated to it. |
| 03:08:55 | tjcarter | well no, it is explicitly set to NULL, so free wouldn't object to that. But it's later set to GetJoystickName without checking that it actually got one. |
| 06:07:11 | watusimoto | hi tjcarter |
| 06:07:41 | tjcarter | hi |
| 06:07:50 | watusimoto | I don't have my code base in front of me, but I am using what came out of the repository without alteration |
| 06:08:28 | watusimoto | I'll have to look tonight |
| 06:08:57 | watusimoto | what I really need (I think) is for someone to build the code I posted so I can test it and eliminate my build environment from the equation |
| 06:09:04 | watusimoto | it's probably not at fault, but you never know |
| 06:09:10 | watusimoto | I like to eliminate possibilities |
| 06:10:04 | watusimoto | another thing I'll test tonight is trying a different "silver" joystick. I have another of the stick that crashed for me -- if both sticks crash, it would elminate some weird fault in the particular joystick |
| 06:11:57 | watusimoto | hey, just for my orientation, what time zone are you in? I'm in Europe, 1hr ahead of GMT |
| 06:12:08 | watusimoto | so it's about 2PM here |
| 06:23:55 | tjcarter | It's about 05:30 here |
| 06:24:32 | tjcarter | I said before you got here that I think I found a potential double free bug in the MMJoystick code |
| 06:24:39 | tjcarter | That might crash something. |
| 06:29:42 | watusimoto | I saw that |
| 06:29:57 | watusimoto | I'll definitely check if I'm using that code tonight |
| 06:32:35 | watusimoto | so when I'm building sdl, I have a choice between using MMJoystick code and some other equivalent code? |
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| 07:24:12 | Nothing_Much | good morning |
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| 07:40:02 | kaen | morning |
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| 07:53:23 | | BFLogBot Commit: b05bd1a8acd5 | Author: kaen | Message: modify Select/Deselect plugin to supply a description and request a keybinding |
| 07:53:25 | | BFLogBot Commit: cc17517acfb4 | Author: kaen | Message: add a description to draw_arcs.lua |
| 07:57:52 | watusimoto | hi |
| 08:00:54 | kaen | hi, my lunch break is over but I'll be back in about ~4.5 hours |
| 08:01:09 | kaen | I made plugins easier to install last night |
| 08:08:22 | | bobdaduck has joined |
| 08:50:34 | watusimoto | ecellent |
| 08:51:41 | bobdaduck | Eccelent! |
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| 09:30:15 | | raptor has joined |
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| 09:30:21 | raptor | good day! |
| 09:33:56 | bobdaduck | morning, gentleraptor |
| 09:35:41 | Little_Apple | the logo is back! |
| 09:35:56 | bobdaduck | april fools! |
| 09:36:08 | raptor | tjcarter / watusimoto: we're definitely using winmm for the audio input, but I'm still digging for what it's using on joystick |
| 09:36:18 | Little_Apple | bobdaduck: october fools? |
| 09:36:37 | bobdaduck | yeah something like that |
| 09:41:26 | watusimoto | hi raptro |
| 09:41:30 | watusimoto | hi raptor |
| 09:41:33 | watusimoto | there we go |
| 09:41:40 | raptor | Hi |
| 09:41:40 | bobdaduck | raptro |
| 09:42:25 | raptor | i have many anagrams |
| 09:42:44 | watusimoto | a man a plan anagram |
| 09:42:58 | raptor | haha - when you do a google search for 'anagram' it responds with "did you mean 'nag a ram'" |
| 09:43:30 | watusimoto | I was wondering if you could make me a windows exe build of the code I posted on the sdl mailing list (also available in comment form at the top of the bitfighter main() function). I want to eliminate my build system from the potential list of culprits. |
| 09:43:51 | raptor | of the bitfighter.exe? |
| 09:44:13 | watusimoto | specifically just the code that demonstrates the crash I'm seeing |
| 09:44:44 | watusimoto | I did it by deleting everything inside main except that code and compiled that |
| 09:45:10 | raptor | ok, so debug build of bitfighter.exe from my win xp 32 bit machine |
| 09:45:11 | raptor | ? |
| 09:45:15 | watusimoto | sure |
| 09:45:16 | watusimoto | yes |
| 09:45:18 | raptor | with just your crashy joystick code |
| 09:45:22 | watusimoto | yes |
| 09:45:26 | raptor | ok, coming right up... |
| 09:45:31 | watusimoto | I don't need it now; just whenever |
| 09:45:47 | watusimoto | thanks |
| 09:47:25 | raptor | tjcarter / watusimoto: we are using SDL_JOYSTICK_DINPUT |
| 09:47:56 | raptor | at the top it says it's based on the WINMM driver, but I think it is directx |
| 09:48:03 | raptor | just dynamically loaded |
| 09:49:35 | raptor | SDL_JOYSTICK_WINMM is *not* defined |
| 09:49:46 | raptor | but it is available in the SDL2 sources |
| 09:54:10 | watusimoto | gotta run |
| 09:54:17 | watusimoto | see you in a while |
| 09:54:35 | raptor | k |
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| 10:06:31 | raptor | ok, for when he comes back: ftp://ftp.novell.com/outgoing/bitfighter-8237-joystick_detection_main.7z |
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| 10:36:39 | tjcarter | *sigh* |
| 10:36:44 | raptor | hi |
| 10:36:47 | tjcarter | FREENODE SUCKS! |
| 10:36:50 | tjcarter | :) |
| 10:36:56 | tjcarter | raptor: that's good. Well it's bad because it means the Saitek stick is breaking with the driver it's not supposed to be broken with |
| 10:36:57 | raptor | using the browser client? |
| 10:37:01 | tjcarter | No |
| 10:37:15 | raptor | ok |
| 10:38:08 | tjcarter | It was a fairly frequent complaint of mine literally a decade ago, for much the same reason. ;) |
| 10:57:31 | raptor | is winmm considered deprecated, as fars as Windows is concerned? |
| 10:58:10 | raptor | like, could I build without it completely and be OK for windows 2000/xp/vista/7/whatever ? |
| 11:04:03 | tjcarter | raptor: The whole API was deprecated as of Vista, and sound kinda is broken when using it in Vista onward. Joysticks haven't worked right in the damned thing since the introduction of USB. ;) |
| 11:04:23 | raptor | interesting... |
| 11:04:59 | tjcarter | But it seems your bug lies in the DirectX driver. |
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| 12:37:12 | Little_Apple | kaen: still cant login to pleiades through safari. |
| 12:40:42 | raptor | Watusimoto: ftp://ftp.novell.com/outgoing/bitfighter-8237-joystick_detection_main.7z |
| 12:42:50 | Watusimoto | great thanks... I'll check it out after dinner |
| 12:43:20 | Watusimoto | (but will dl it now in case you want to clear it off your system) |
| 12:43:41 | raptor | our FTP system auto-clears after a day or so |
| 12:45:51 | Watusimoto | ok, well, I got it |
| 12:46:20 | raptor | excellent |
| 12:47:40 | Watusimoto | later! |
| 12:50:53 | raptor | bye |
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| 13:15:09 | kaen | hello hello |
| 13:15:18 | | Flynnn has joined |
| 13:17:08 | kaen | ok, new plan |
| 13:17:34 | kaen | whenever we get a User-Agent: Safari header on bitfighter.org, we redirect to the google chrome download page |
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| 13:25:33 | kaen | hi! |
| 13:26:15 | bobdaduck | hi! |
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| 13:56:19 | | BFLogBot Commit: 15d3d3af51ee | Author: kaen | Message: ignore unbound plugins in checkPluginKeyBindings |
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| 14:30:28 | | thread_ has joined |
| 14:30:40 | thread_ | Whats up guys?!? |
| 14:32:00 | bobdaduck | WATUP. |
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| 14:34:21 | kaen | whatup gangster? |
| 14:34:54 | raptor | howdy folks |
| 14:35:13 | kaen | I just be codin' on that lua plugin shizzle, namsayin'? |
| 14:35:54 | kaen | yep, that dialect looks even worse when typed out and properly apostrophized |
| 14:36:43 | kaen | I'm trying to make lua_clone() work |
| 14:37:17 | kaen | do you think it would be an acceptable constraint that the object has already been added to a game? |
| 14:37:27 | kaen | if we require that, then there is no memory leak |
| 14:37:49 | kaen | just confirmed with valgrind --leak-check=full --show-reachable=yes |
| 14:38:50 | kaen | thread_, bobdaduck, can you think of any time you would want to clone an object when it hasn't already been added to a game? |
| 14:39:34 | kaen | actually, now that I think about it, even if you did then you would already know exactly how the object was constructed since you wrote the code that created it |
| 14:39:44 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 14:39:48 | kaen | so you wouldn't need clone for an object you .new()'d yourself |
| 14:39:52 | thread_ | uuuhh... I could imagine wanting to make several objects and add them to the level at once... but like you said |
| 14:39:54 | bobdaduck | I have not yet ever used lua clone |
| 14:40:00 | thread_ | I could access the object ccreated |
| 14:40:01 | kaen | bobdaduck, that's good |
| 14:40:10 | kaen | because it always returns nil right now :P |
| 14:40:44 | bobdaduck | why not just get rid of it? |
| 14:40:56 | kaen | because I need it for some plugins |
| 14:40:59 | bobdaduck | WAIT WAIT |
| 14:41:02 | kaen | e.g. this tiling plugin I'm writing |
| 14:41:04 | bobdaduck | CAN I GET THE ID OF A PLAYER'S SHIP |
| 14:41:06 | bobdaduck | AND THEN LUA CLONE IT? |
| 14:41:21 | kaen | oh snap |
| 14:41:21 | raptor | kaen: I'm not so sure cloning is a good idea... |
| 14:41:47 | kaen | raptor, but I've got at least two plugins that could really use it |
| 14:42:03 | kaen | tiling, and my polyboolean plugin (in case an object gets broken in two) |
| 14:42:12 | raptor | well, yes... but think of the future issues that other scripters will complain about |
| 14:42:44 | kaen | I'm trying to... |
| 14:42:46 | kaen | help me out? |
| 14:43:16 | raptor | cloning objects will require changing their geom after-the-fact anyways, right? |
| 14:43:39 | kaen | only if you want to move it |
| 14:44:25 | kaen | so yes, in the general case |
| 14:44:46 | kaen | let me dig up my lua clone implementation so you can see what I'm trying to avoid |
| 14:45:20 | raptor | I'm just thinking about complexity.. |
| 14:45:21 | raptor | ok |
| 14:45:48 | thread_ | I just thought of a case where I would want to clone objects not added :/ |
| 14:45:59 | kaen | thread_, hit me |
| 14:46:09 | kaen | bah, I dumped it |
| 14:47:05 | thread_ | I could use, in some cases, an instance of an object I need not created. Whenever I want to create a new one, I clone it and add. |
| 14:47:16 | thread_ | This avoids all the initializing code repeating |
| 14:47:46 | raptor | but it doesn't - you still have to change the geom or location to make it useful |
| 14:48:35 | kaen | basically, given the object you want to clone, you get its ObjType, you put that through a hard-coded map of objtypes -> classes because ObjType itself can't be enumerated, then you have to either do a massive switch construct for class-specific clone logic, or iterate through all of the :getFoo methods that exist and check if the object you have responds to it (getWidth, getTeam, etc), then apply the needed functions and set their values on the new o |
| 14:48:36 | kaen | bject |
| 14:48:43 | thread_ | but if its a complex shape, its easier to have the geometry already done, and just shift the points by adding a vector |
| 14:48:56 | raptor | ah |
| 14:49:05 | raptor | ok, i can see that case scenario, kaen |
| 14:49:17 | thread_ | Its all my fault |
| 14:49:18 | raptor | cloning a list of objects of various type |
| 14:49:22 | kaen | right |
| 14:50:01 | kaen | it's hideous |
| 14:50:15 | kaen | so :clone with a modest constraint seems much nicer |
| 14:50:20 | raptor | yes ok |
| 14:50:21 | raptor | you win |
| 14:50:50 | kaen | you could say I lose, because I was foolish enough to try implementing it in lua first :P |
| 14:50:53 | raptor | i'm also wary of the fact that I did a *lot* of work with making sure memory was clean between Lua/c++ |
| 14:51:02 | kaen | ok, that's a fair concern |
| 14:51:30 | kaen | this constraint is solid though, because once an object is in a game it's managed by that game instance |
| 14:52:00 | Nothing_Much | Hi everyone |
| 14:52:00 | thread_ | I suppose there is a reasonable work around in my proposed case anyway... |
| 14:52:03 | kaen | hi |
| 14:52:12 | Nothing_Much | what's going on? |
| 14:52:18 | raptor | ok ok, i'll just sit back and watch, then.. :) |
| 14:52:24 | raptor | argh meeting |
| 14:52:27 | raptor | back soon |
| 14:52:29 | kaen | have fun! |
| 14:52:33 | thread_ | :) |
| 14:52:53 | kaen | Nothing_Much, just trying to convince raptor to let me potentially undo his hard work |
| 14:53:03 | Nothing_Much | oh my |
| 14:53:11 | Nothing_Much | lol sounds.. like something |
| 14:54:24 | kaen | thread_, the work around isn't as painful as it seems |
| 14:54:34 | thread_ | no its not |
| 14:54:48 | kaen | and if you use FP style, you can just compose a series of functions and actually have a general-purpose generator function that you build piece-by-piece |
| 14:54:51 | kaen | or many of them. |
| 14:55:26 | thread_ | so now you just need to convince raptor? |
| 14:55:35 | kaen | I think I have |
| 14:55:42 | kaen | or at least bludgeoned him into submission |
| 14:56:12 | kaen | I guess I'll wait until I hear from Watusimoto, too |
| 14:56:29 | bobdaduck | Still doesn't seem necessary |
| 14:56:37 | bobdaduck | unless I can start cloning player objects |
| 14:56:43 | bobdaduck | in which case its still not necessary |
| 14:56:47 | bobdaduck | its just also a bad idea |
| 14:57:02 | bobdaduck | ("fun" - Dwarf Fortress) |
| 14:57:16 | kaen | well, you should try implementing a general-purpose clone function in lua |
| 14:57:31 | kaen | and this three-line change in c++ will sounds a lot more appealing |
| 14:57:59 | bobdaduck | I don't understand thread_'s use case at all though. |
| 14:58:14 | kaen | he's basically talking about having like a template object |
| 14:58:28 | bobdaduck | Why is lua:clone(resource) better than function spawnResource() |
| 14:58:29 | kaen | that you can configure and clone() to make a bunch of as needed |
| 14:58:45 | kaen | in that particular case, it isn't |
| 14:58:47 | kaen | but |
| 14:59:11 | kaen | obj:clone() is better than function kaensHackyCloneImplementation(obj) for objects of unknown type |
| 14:59:22 | kaen | e.g. if you're writing a plugin to tile objects of an unknown type |
| 14:59:34 | kaen | or perform boolean polygon operations on a list of objects of unknown types |
| 14:59:44 | thread_ | It was just funny, because I've been thinking about how to do a new level, and the template object idea came to me *after* kaen asked for use cases |
| 14:59:52 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 14:59:57 | bobdaduck | okay I guess I can see that |
| 15:09:50 | bobdaduck | I definitely keep a copy of "Lamp's flag dungeon" in all my level folders, with minplayers set to 20. |
| 15:10:57 | kaen | I miss Lamp :< |
| 15:11:00 | kaen | and everybody |
| 15:11:06 | thread_ | except for me right? |
| 15:11:14 | kaen | uh well |
| 15:11:18 | kaen | I miss you in advance |
| 15:11:34 | thread_ | really? I thought you'd be glade to be rid of me in advance |
| 15:11:42 | kaen | lol |
| 15:12:03 | kaen | no way, it's nice to have someone else with the interest and ability to do crazy things with the lua api |
| 15:12:20 | kaen | plus you make interesting levels |
| 15:12:24 | thread_ | Glad you have some appreciation for me :/ |
| 15:12:58 | thread_ | by the way... proceduraly generated maps are hard to do |
| 15:13:02 | kaen | word |
| 15:13:25 | kaen | ringrunner took way more effort than I thought it would |
| 15:13:33 | kaen | and it's barely procedural |
| 15:13:55 | thread_ | well, uh... the map I'm working on has no objects in it before the levelgen runs |
| 15:14:06 | kaen | that's what ringrunner is too |
| 15:14:16 | thread_ | not even a wall or spawn point |
| 15:14:19 | kaen | yep |
| 15:14:29 | kaen | nothing but boilerplate levelcode |
| 15:15:17 | kaen | two algorithms I've found essential in my procedural experiments: simplex noise and midpoint relaxation |
| 15:15:40 | thread_ | my level has 3 lines ^^ GameType 10 8, GridSize 255, Script blah |
| 15:15:54 | thread_ | oh and team |
| 15:15:55 | bobdaduck | lol gridsize |
| 15:16:05 | thread_ | gridsize is obsolete in 019 right? |
| 15:16:40 | bobdaduck | yeah |
| 15:17:16 | kaen | I think it still controls the spacing of the gridlines |
| 15:17:26 | kaen | so it's useful for controlling snapping |
| 15:17:33 | thread_ | ah |
| 15:17:42 | Watusimoto | just finished the last episode of breaking bad |
| 15:17:56 | bobdaduck | what's breaking bad? |
| 15:18:09 | kaen | best introduction is to watch the pilot |
| 15:18:24 | bobdaduck | lol but I hate watching TV |
| 15:18:32 | kaen | it's definitely the best TV show I have ever watched |
| 15:19:00 | kaen | also the only tv show I watch |
| 15:19:02 | bobdaduck | BETTER THAN MLP? |
| 15:19:07 | kaen | :| |
| 15:19:25 | bobdaduck | I MISS LAMP |
| 15:19:35 | bobdaduck | ITS JUST NOT THE SAME |
| 15:19:41 | kaen | CAPSLOCK IN LAMP'S HONOR |
| 15:19:50 | kaen | BRING BACK THE MEMORIES |
| 15:19:51 | thread_ | WHO'S LAMP? |
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| 15:20:01 | kaen | hello. |
| 15:20:39 | Watusimoto | what do you need ot hear from me? about clone? |
| 15:20:48 | raptor | hello |
| 15:20:52 | kaen | any reservations against implementing it? |
| 15:21:02 | ace___ | Wasn't there talk of single-player bots being implemented? Is there an estimated date of arrival? |
| 15:21:14 | | koda has joined |
| 15:21:25 | kaen | ace___, you can play against single player bots in 018a |
| 15:21:26 | Watusimoto | why does it leak on objects not added to the game? |
| 15:21:30 | kaen | /addbots 3 |
| 15:21:32 | kaen | or so |
| 15:21:43 | ace___ | Pardon my questions, but I was just led here by the Open Pandora port of Bitfighter :-) |
| 15:21:55 | kaen | ace___, ah good! and questions are very welcome |
| 15:22:06 | kaen | we're working with the packager to improve the pandora port |
| 15:22:18 | kaen | Watusimoto, nothing controls the memory |
| 15:22:30 | Watusimoto | bobdaduck: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_Bad |
| 15:22:38 | Watusimoto | don't know if it has any spoilers |
| 15:22:47 | Watusimoto | kaen: what do you mean by that? |
| 15:23:07 | Watusimoto | meaning you could clone and nothing would clean it up? |
| 15:23:10 | kaen | right |
| 15:23:20 | Watusimoto | that's the same as doing new and not adding it to the game, no? |
| 15:23:26 | Watusimoto | that will also leak, in the same way |
| 15:23:46 | kaen | but luaW will gc and free it once there are no more refs to it in lua |
| 15:23:50 | Watusimoto | cloning and adding original and clone will not leak, right? |
| 15:24:00 | Watusimoto | sorry adding to the game |
| 15:24:24 | Watusimoto | and no lua will not clean up the object |
| 15:24:39 | Watusimoto | if you do Testitem:new() |
| 15:24:46 | kaen | wait, really? |
| 15:24:48 | Watusimoto | and don't add that to the game, the memory is gone |
| 15:24:50 | ace___ | Don't the single-player bots get stuck on corners and such? |
| 15:25:02 | Watusimoto | ace___: not much |
| 15:25:07 | Watusimoto | our bots are working pretty well |
| 15:25:12 | kaen | ace___, there are a few maps that cause that, but most don't |
| 15:25:21 | ace___ | Awesome! |
| 15:25:41 | kaen | Watusimoto, well if that's the case then there's really no additional harm |
| 15:25:47 | Watusimoto | there is plenty of room for improvement in the bots, but they navigate "normal" levels pretty well |
| 15:26:01 | raptor | kaen / Watusimoto, I think s_bot is stupider in 019... I added 7 to a level (serpentine) and they were pretty stupid |
| 15:26:12 | Watusimoto | kaen: then let's do an unrestricted clone. it's more useful before objects are added, imo |
| 15:26:14 | Nothing_Much | + |
| 15:26:21 | kaen | ok |
| 15:26:29 | Watusimoto | we just need to put a big warning in the docs |
| 15:26:35 | kaen | I love big warnings |
| 15:26:36 | Watusimoto | (as there is for new()) |
| 15:26:49 | Watusimoto | (or at least was... maybe in the wiki, not sure) |
| 15:27:07 | Watusimoto | don't create objects unless you are sure you will add them |
| 15:27:26 | kaen | huh. |
| 15:27:41 | kaen | ok, then bob brought up some interesting edge cases I have to test |
| 15:27:51 | kaen | cloning a player's ship, cloning a wall, etc |
| 15:28:09 | bobdaduck | cloning a clone |
| 15:28:11 | kaen | probably need to override wall:clone to return nil |
| 15:28:17 | Watusimoto | when an object dies in lua, the proxy is notified. I wonder if the proxy can test the original object, and if it is not in a game, delete it |
| 15:28:33 | bobdaduck | why not just clone a wall? |
| 15:28:44 | kaen | oh wait, you're right |
| 15:29:03 | kaen | since we've decided clone gets you an object without a game |
| 15:29:32 | kaen | well, this really simplifies things |
| 15:31:49 | kaen | ace___, how are the controls on the pandora? |
| 15:32:10 | kaen | I remember canseco saying we're using the d-pad when there's a joystick we could be using |
| 15:33:28 | ace___ | There are two analog nubs and the OS is a fork of Angstrom Linux |
| 15:33:54 | ace___ | The d-pad is used to move, while the righ nub is used to aim |
| 15:33:57 | ace___ | *right |
| 15:34:05 | | FlynnnNT has joined |
| 15:34:23 | kaen | ah, that's what I thought |
| 15:34:26 | | Flynnn Quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 15:39:06 | ace___ | The d-pad setup works quite well, since the 8 directional positions are quite tactile. Super Geometry dust has perfect dual-analogue controls and has a similar graphic style: http://repo.openpandora.org/?page=detail&app=SuperGeometryDust-23703 |
| 15:40:24 | kaen | oh, didn't realize it was 8-way |
| 15:40:28 | kaen | man that's a cool device |
| 15:41:10 | raptor | whoa... is that a pandora-only game? |
| 15:41:15 | ace___ | The average consumer has no idea what it's capable of |
| 15:41:24 | ace___ | Yes, we have many exclusives |
| 15:42:01 | ace___ | It evokes the spirit of Geometry Wars |
| 15:42:43 | ace___ | That game is not for the faint of heart though.... I was "in the zone", so to speak and a dog barked outside, causing me to lose |
| 15:42:55 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 15:44:27 | ace___ | The crazy techno music crescendoed while the screen was filled with loads of polygons and explosions |
| 15:44:34 | ace___ | :-) |
| 15:45:04 | kaen | man, I loved geometry wars |
| 15:48:27 | ace___ | People say, well i can get <insert random chinese device here> for $79, why would I buy a Pandora |
| 15:49:11 | ace___ | Well, it has Open Arena, all the emulators you can possibly want, even PSP and DS ones that work perfectly fine |
| 15:49:24 | bobdaduck | And it plays bitfighter! |
| 15:49:30 | ace___ | Libre Office, Codeblocks, and so on |
| 15:49:39 | raptor | libreoffice?? |
| 15:49:43 | raptor | it can run that OK? |
| 15:49:52 | raptor | how about a JVM? |
| 15:50:12 | ace___ | I never heard of Bitfighter, until it was originally released back in August, but I just started playing it |
| 15:50:23 | ace___ | It has full desktop Java |
| 15:51:25 | ace___ | Oracle jdk 7u21, jwjgl, javac, and Open JDK |
| 15:52:12 | ace___ | Yes, Libre Office runs fine, especially since it has a touch screen and a full qwerty keyboard |
| 15:52:41 | Nothing_Much | hello again! |
| 15:52:54 | thread_ | hello there |
| 15:52:58 | raptor | oh wow, cool |
| 15:53:30 | bobdaduck | hello people |
| 15:53:32 | Nothing_Much | good news, got my computer up and running again, so now I can get back to video editing! |
| 15:54:34 | kaen | cool! |
| 15:54:55 | kaen | latest should be fairly UI-stable, we've removed the rank marks and stuff |
| 15:55:18 | Nothing_Much | all I need is some gameplay footage from expert players now, I got my own footage but it's.. newbish |
| 15:57:43 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 15:57:57 | bobdaduck | I am almost feeling ambitious enough to help you with that! |
| 15:57:58 | raptor | bobdaduck vs. team-turret should work for you pretty well |
| 15:58:10 | kaen | rofl |
| 15:58:14 | bobdaduck | xDD |
| 15:58:29 | Nothing_Much | just make sure you mute the music for the gameplay, keep the sounds though |
| 16:03:41 | kaen | http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/09/health/louisiana-brain-eating-amoeba/ |
| 16:03:51 | kaen | man that's a good headline |
| 16:04:14 | Nothing_Much | I saw that on a show before |
| 16:04:47 | kaen | "brain eating amoeba" will probably get a lot of mileage |
| 16:05:07 | Nothing_Much | o.o |
| 16:05:28 | | Platskies has joined |
| 16:05:39 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 16:06:48 | kaen | I meant in the news, not physically |
| 16:07:01 | kaen | I guess they're dumping a bunch of chlorine into the water supply |
| 16:07:58 | kaen | just realized I broke my two-week moratorium on the news after like 48 hours |
| 16:08:03 | kaen | I'm hooked :/ |
| 16:09:00 | Nothing_Much | moratorium? |
| 16:09:20 | | Platskies Quit (Client Quit) |
| 16:10:35 | Nothing_Much | oh |
| 16:11:17 | | ace___ Quit (Quit: Page closed) |
| 16:12:00 | | ace___ has joined |
| 16:12:06 | raptor | kaen: give yourself a good dose of local-only news for a bit |
| 16:12:30 | bobdaduck | We had a conversation like this almost yesterday! |
| 16:12:38 | bobdaduck | I don't remember the result but it was fun. |
| 16:13:22 | ace___ | IRC logged me off.... hmm.... |
| 16:13:54 | bobdaduck | Out to get you |
| 16:13:57 | bobdaduck | clearly |
| 16:14:25 | raptor | ace___: I find that if you don't use the webchat ( http://webchat.freenode.net/ ), you need a client that sends a PING every minute or so. freenode is aggressive at kicking |
| 16:14:26 | ace___ | That must be it, it's porbably telling me to get off of this PC and go home to play bit Fighter on my Pandora :P |
| 16:14:31 | ace___ | *probably |
| 16:15:20 | Nothing_Much | nice |
| 16:15:35 | raptor | not kicking.. dropping connections |
| 16:17:23 | kaen | was it really yesterday? |
| 16:17:30 | kaen | man, not even 24 hours... |
| 16:17:47 | bobdaduck | I don't remember |
| 16:17:48 | ace___ | Kudos to you ladies and gentlemen for being one of only 2 civilized chat rooms I've ever been on |
| 16:18:00 | bobdaduck | I just remember "yay I get to rant at something!" |
| 16:18:09 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 16:18:20 | Nothing_Much | ace___, oh my |
| 16:18:24 | | koda Quit (Quit: koda) |
| 16:18:37 | raptor | why thank you ace___, BFLogBot makes sure we all stay in line... |
| 16:18:38 | BFLogBot | I imagine girls and bugs have a dim perception that nature played a cruel trick on them but they lack the intelligence to really comprehend the magnitude of it. -- Calvin |
| 16:18:44 | bobdaduck | rofl |
| 16:18:55 | raptor | except, the bot is an exception, of course... |
| 16:19:05 | bobdaduck | Good 'ol logbot |
| 16:19:10 | bobdaduck | always trying to start a barfight |
| 16:19:17 | bobdaduck | Oh wait, that was me. |
| 16:19:37 | bobdaduck | I just wanted an excuse to use the word "brawl" |
| 16:20:56 | ace___ | I used to manage The Gamers Studio forums when I worked for them, and people used racist/sexist/homphobic comments all the time, as if that was socially acceptable |
| 16:21:26 | bobdaduck | Too much League of Legends |
| 16:21:32 | ace___ | .... mind my grammatical errors |
| 16:22:23 | bobdaduck | Heading home byeguys |
| 16:22:27 | Nothing_Much | Later |
| 16:22:29 | | bobdaduck waves and skips out |
| 16:22:31 | | bobdaduck Quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 16:23:17 | Watusimoto | raptor, kaen |
| 16:23:26 | kaen | present! |
| 16:23:33 | Watusimoto | I finally tested that joystick crash build that raptor made for me earlier today |
| 16:23:36 | Watusimoto | same results |
| 16:23:46 | Watusimoto | one joystick always causes it to crash |
| 16:23:48 | Watusimoto | one does not |
| 16:23:59 | Watusimoto | the interesting thing is that I have two of the crashy joystick |
| 16:24:09 | Watusimoto | so I tried the other, and it also makes the program crash |
| 16:24:16 | Watusimoto | so I think there is a real problem with SDL |
| 16:24:19 | raptor | sounds like a driver error... |
| 16:24:21 | Watusimoto | and joysticks |
| 16:24:24 | Watusimoto | perhaps |
| 16:24:29 | Watusimoto | but you can use the stick fine |
| 16:24:36 | Watusimoto | and it doesn't crash ohter games |
| 16:24:51 | raptor | did tjcarter say that there was a double free error in DINPUT or WINMM? |
| 16:24:53 | Watusimoto | it only crashes sdl when you close |
| 16:24:57 | Watusimoto | winmm |
| 16:25:04 | raptor | ok, well, we're not using that |
| 16:25:07 | Watusimoto | and you said we use dinput, right? |
| 16:25:10 | raptor | right |
| 16:25:24 | Watusimoto | so now I don't know what to do |
| 16:25:31 | raptor | ship! |
| 16:25:34 | raptor | :) |
| 16:25:48 | kaen | :) |
| 16:25:49 | Watusimoto | I suspect there are other sticks that cuase problems as well, as kaen opened the bug about crashy joysticks |
| 16:26:07 | kaen | if I did, it was during my RBL -> google code migration |
| 16:26:11 | Watusimoto | so... I guess another message to the sdl list |
| 16:26:23 | raptor | well the SDL thread you started was active enough.. |
| 16:26:24 | Watusimoto | unless you can think of anything else to test |
| 16:26:28 | Watusimoto | yes |
| 16:26:46 | Watusimoto | though everyone wants to talk api, and not crash |
| 16:27:29 | raptor | so you have it narrowed down to an API method? |
| 16:29:21 | Watusimoto | SDL_Init(0); |
| 16:29:21 | Watusimoto | SDL_JoystickEventState(SDL_ENABLE); |
| 16:29:21 | Watusimoto | SDL_InitSubSystem(SDL_INIT_JOYSTICK); |
| 16:29:21 | Watusimoto | SDL_Joystick *x = SDL_JoystickOpen(0); |
| 16:29:21 | Watusimoto | SDL_JoystickClose(x); |
| 16:29:22 | Watusimoto | |
| 16:29:24 | Watusimoto | SDL_QuitSubSystem(SDL_INIT_JOYSTICK); |
| 16:29:27 | Watusimoto | exit(0); |
| 16:29:29 | raptor | heh |
| 16:29:30 | Watusimoto | that's the whole program that reproduces the crash |
| 16:29:31 | raptor | yes |
| 16:29:38 | ace___ | Is there anyway to play Bit Fighter without installing it, since I don't have the rights to install it here? |
| 16:29:46 | Watusimoto | if you remove the joystickOpen/joystickClose, the problem goes away |
| 16:29:51 | Watusimoto | ace___: yes |
| 16:29:53 | raptor | ok, but not narrowed to one of the specific API calls? |
| 16:30:07 | raptor | ace___: what system? |
| 16:30:13 | ace___ | PC |
| 16:30:28 | ace___ | Windows 7 Pro |
| 16:30:28 | Watusimoto | ace___: just copy the files somewhere, creaet a file called standalone.txt in the folder you're in, and run bitfighter.exe |
| 16:30:29 | raptor | here's a portable download: https://code.google.com/p/bitfighter/downloads/detail?name=Bitfighter-018a-portable.zip&can=2&q= |
| 16:30:50 | Watusimoto | or use that link, which is essentially the normal files plust statnalone.txt |
| 16:31:00 | ace___ | Awesome |
| 16:31:17 | Watusimoto | it works great on a usb key |
| 16:31:30 | ace___ | I'll join a game, but I've barely played |
| 16:31:36 | ace___ | before :) |
| 16:31:39 | Watusimoto | me too :-) |
| 16:31:52 | Watusimoto | raptor: I can;t really narrow it down |
| 16:32:12 | raptor | will it crash with the Open() call only? |
| 16:32:12 | Watusimoto | it crashes in random places, and soemtimes during the exit(0) command |
| 16:32:29 | Watusimoto | and teh stacktrace is useless |
| 16:32:32 | Watusimoto | I'll try that now |
| 16:34:00 | Watusimoto | so kaen: why did you report that joystick crash? did you see it yourself, or did someone tell you about it? |
| 16:34:12 | kaen | it was on the running bug list |
| 16:34:18 | raptor | Watusimoto: you reported it on the running list on the wiki |
| 16:34:27 | Watusimoto | oh |
| 16:34:52 | Watusimoto | I removed SDL_JoystickClose(x); and it still crashed |
| 16:39:03 | raptor | oh really |
| 16:39:07 | raptor | that was not what i expected |
| 16:40:40 | raptor | sorry for crashing your server ace___ :) |
| 16:41:31 | ace___ | How do you change modes and maps? |
| 16:41:44 | raptor | what do you consider a 'mode' ? |
| 16:42:01 | raptor | you can change maps by pressing <ESC> and selecting a new level from the menu |
| 16:42:08 | kaen | maps have assigned modes |
| 16:42:24 | raptor | each map has a type like CTF, etc. |
| 16:43:54 | Watusimoto | raptor: the close may be run automatically when shutting down the joystick subsystem |
| 16:44:05 | Watusimoto | but I can check that |
| 16:44:54 | raptor | i wonder - is there joystick emulation software? like some application that lets you pretend to have a joystick attached? |
| 16:45:12 | raptor | so you can test various models virtually |
| 16:46:59 | raptor | close: http://sourceforge.net/projects/vjoystick/ |
| 16:48:12 | ace___ | :) |
| 16:48:22 | ace___ | Well, they were doing better than me |
| 16:48:22 | Watusimoto | ok, I ran the testjoystick code that comes with SDL... same problem there |
| 16:48:55 | raptor | did you have to install any system driver for these joysticks? |
| 16:48:59 | kaen | bots are vicious |
| 16:49:00 | | BFLogBot Commit: d87e96062392 | Author: kaen | Message: set the DBID before saving the level in LevelDatabaseUploadThread |
| 16:49:02 | kaen | if somewhat dense. |
| 16:49:27 | Watusimoto | you can kill bots pretty easily once you figure out the trick |
| 16:49:42 | Watusimoto | but if they get you in a tight area and start circling you, you are toast |
| 16:49:47 | Watusimoto | (or at least I am) |
| 16:50:03 | kaen | is there a reason they won't fire at you while you're tailgunning? |
| 16:50:13 | Watusimoto | raptor: how do you think that driver would help? |
| 16:50:22 | Watusimoto | kaen: they won't fire if they don't think they can hit you |
| 16:50:34 | Watusimoto | and for whatever reason, they don't think they can |
| 16:50:35 | raptor | I'm just thinking about being able to test myself some way, without a joystick |
| 16:50:41 | Watusimoto | ah, I see |
| 16:50:47 | Watusimoto | but it's not all joysticks |
| 16:50:48 | ace___ | Well, I don't an option to change maps unless I go into the level editor |
| 16:50:54 | Watusimoto | so I'm not even sure it would help |
| 16:51:07 | ace___ | Shouldn't there be a map selction screen when you host a game? |
| 16:51:07 | Watusimoto | ace___: <esc>L |
| 16:51:09 | Watusimoto | I think |
| 16:51:24 | Watusimoto | it hosts all levels in your level folder |
| 16:51:49 | Watusimoto | you can specify different folders and such... though it may only be a cmd line option |
| 16:52:01 | Watusimoto | we want to add a playlist feature, perhaps in 020 |
| 16:52:08 | kaen | Watusimoto, ROFL |
| 16:52:09 | kaen | https://code.google.com/p/bitfighter/source/detail?r=f7a080ab4da1b284c5ed271c15fb71c86f5a85db |
| 16:52:21 | kaen | I didn't see that until just now |
| 16:52:28 | raptor | I'm in full support! |
| 16:52:32 | raptor | of that change |
| 16:52:36 | kaen | ditto |
| 16:52:40 | Watusimoto | we'll see how management reacts to that |
| 16:52:50 | kaen | omg I'm still chuckling |
| 16:52:51 | raptor | footloose? |
| 16:53:20 | Watusimoto | you know.... it might even work |
| 16:53:48 | Watusimoto | we should probably add an INI override to restore default behavior |
| 16:53:49 | ace___ | l take it many of you are the development team? |
| 16:53:57 | ace___ | *are on the |
| 16:54:04 | kaen | Watusimoto, raptor, and I |
| 16:54:14 | kaen | are the entire active dev team |
| 16:54:16 | Watusimoto | kaen, raptor, and I |
| 16:55:05 | ace___ | That's great |
| 16:55:22 | raptor | Watusimoto, kaen, raptor, and I |
| 16:55:33 | Watusimoto | and me too! |
| 16:55:33 | kaen | a moment of silence for our fallen comrades... |
| 16:56:35 | ace___ | Coding isn't one of my strong points, although I did code an ecommerce customer service system through Visual Basic and a somewhat procedurely generated war game in QBASIC once |
| 16:56:36 | kaen | (I was just kidding...) |
| 16:56:56 | kaen | ah, cool |
| 16:57:14 | kaen | thread_ and I are both playing with writing procgen'd maps |
| 16:57:28 | thread_ | I can almost generate a room! |
| 16:57:39 | thread_ | :p |
| 16:57:48 | kaen | I made some concentric circles! |
| 16:57:53 | kaen | with gaps! |
| 16:58:00 | raptor | FYI Watusimoto, I did update mazegen to the new API,e tc. |
| 16:58:08 | Watusimoto | great |
| 16:58:41 | kaen | including mazegen in the default distribution was a really good idea, btw |
| 16:58:52 | Watusimoto | except that it sucked as a level |
| 16:58:54 | kaen | that's how I learned to write levelgens :P |
| 16:58:55 | Watusimoto | *sucks |
| 16:59:02 | kaen | tons better than reading the wiki |
| 16:59:05 | Watusimoto | yes |
| 16:59:07 | raptor | well, that's the only level I win! |
| 16:59:07 | Watusimoto | true |
| 16:59:26 | raptor | except against Little_Apple |
| 16:59:26 | Watusimoto | for me: the only winning move is not to play |
| 16:59:32 | kaen | hehe |
| 16:59:53 | kaen | I should make a thermonuclear war map... |
| 16:59:58 | kaen | "A strange level..." |
| 17:00:07 | kaen | etc. |
| 17:01:05 | ace___ | My QB game was nearly 100 pages of code..... a nightmare, if you ask me :) It was a graphical point-and-click styled game that allowed to be a hero or traitor, or ummm..... a moron, for lack of a better term. You can hang inside your bunker and play Poker while your comrades are blown up right outside. It had arcade-style bits and text-based combat as well. I had Osama being found in his fortress and Saddam being hung back in 2 |
| 17:01:19 | ace___ | *that allowed you |
| 17:01:28 | | FlynnnNT Quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) |
| 17:02:46 | kaen | !bugs |
| 17:02:46 | BFLogBot | To enter a bug: http://tinyurl.com/bfnewbug -- To view all bugs: http://tinyurl.com/bfbugs |
| 17:04:12 | kaen | hmm, only 8ish official todos left, depending on how you count |
| 17:04:27 | ace___ | The Visual Basic web shop was developed because I worked at a call center that handled calls for Venue Retail Group. Venue's operation was a ponzi scheme, sending out old orders with new funds. Since Venue's systems never worked properly and the financial institution severed ties with them, I bet my co-workers that I can whip something up that worked far better than that. Needless to say, I made a nice chunk of change |
| 17:04:52 | kaen | whoa that's cool |
| 17:05:01 | raptor | does windows 7 still have VBasic runtimes built in? |
| 17:05:45 | ace___ | The .Net platform is downloadable |
| 17:05:59 | kaen | I worked at a call center for a while, I remember they let us show up in PJs and slippers |
| 17:06:27 | kaen | that was pretty much the perfect job for that point in my life |
| 17:06:37 | ace___ | Coding is a bit of a nightmare for me, unfortunately. I'd rather stick with business development, board and card game design, and stage shows |
| 17:07:08 | kaen | I did sales, so I made pretty good money with the bonuses |
| 17:07:13 | ace___ | and publishing |
| 17:07:26 | kaen | board and card game design, eh? |
| 17:07:33 | kaen | I made a couple of those, too |
| 17:07:38 | ace___ | Yes, around two dozen or so |
| 17:09:51 | kaen | simple board games, or "settlers of catan"-style? |
| 17:09:55 | | Darrel Quit (Quit: IRC client killed.) |
| 17:11:22 | ace___ | I wrote and choreographed the musical number "Happiness", which has been in continuous use by the Harding Opera since 1999. It took many long years and far too much money to acquire most of the Harding Opera's, but it was well worth the money just to hear that song again. The 2001 opera was the one I starred in.... it featured a pretty epic song battle vs. an ogre, on a rickety rope bridge overlooking a volcano. The footage was d |
| 17:11:25 | ace___ | at any cost. |
| 17:12:53 | Nothing_Much | brb |
| 17:12:58 | | Nothing_Much Quit (Quit: Leaving) |
| 17:13:23 | | Nothing_Much has joined |
| 17:14:36 | Nothing_Much | What'd I miss? |
| 17:15:17 | ace___ | This "I wrote and choreographed the musical number "Happiness", which has been in continuous use by the Harding Opera since 1999. It took many long years and far too much money to acquire most of the Harding Opera's, but it was well worth the money just to hear that song again. The 2001 opera was the one I starred in.... it featured a pretty epic song battle vs. an ogre, on a rickety rope bridge overlooking a volcano. The footage |
| 17:15:20 | ace___ | to me." |
| 17:17:16 | Nothing_Much | oh my |
| 17:19:23 | ace___ | IMD was the company that recorded all of the shows since the original in 97, but since they are run by the government, they are causing me grief. |
| 17:19:53 | ace___ | Just because they can't fix it, doesn't mean I can't take it to Rainbow in NYC or pay someone to fly down there themselves |
| 17:20:28 | ace___ | What use do they have for a tape that wouldn't play? |
| 17:20:59 | ace___ | *won't |
| 17:24:32 | Watusimoto | bedtime, gentlemen, good night! |
| 17:24:40 | raptor | good night |
| 17:25:02 | ace___ | May the power protect you |
| 17:25:10 | ace___ | It's Morphin' Time! |
| 17:25:44 | kaen | night! |
| 17:26:09 | kaen | man, I bought this butter-flavored syrup the other day |
| 17:26:24 | kaen | worst decision I've made in a while. it tasted neither like butter nor syrup |
| 17:26:32 | ace___ | As for board games, mostly lengthy drawn-out games like Catan |
| 17:27:06 | kaen | oh, cool |
| 17:27:35 | kaen | that's pretty interesting that you wrote a musical |
| 17:27:46 | kaen | even more so that it actually got stage time :) |
| 17:28:22 | ace___ | I've done a few quick-play games, such as "Chips: The Game of Potato Pilfering" or whatever it was called, where a sleeping guy on the couch randomly dumps chips all over the board, and you have to fill up your bowl as much as possible before you wake the guy up |
| 17:28:42 | kaen | haha |
| 17:29:04 | ace___ | That was far too long ago :) |
| 17:32:21 | ace___ | Nowadays, I'm far too busy to work on anything like that. I'm working on another degree, even though I already have two and far too many certs..... I'm also the Executive Director of Genius Press, the company that publishes The Integrated Thinker, although I won't be compensated until........ hmmm..... that I can't say. I'm planning was first solo event focused on business and marketing topics, AND I'm working on a web design con |
| 17:32:51 | ace___ | Needless to say that contract will pay me practically nothing, but there's no time to work a full-time job right now |
| 17:33:59 | raptor | ace___: do you work on the open pandora project? |
| 17:34:18 | kaen | you working on a web design company? (your posts are getting truncated by freenode) |
| 17:34:55 | ace___ | I was an early supporter who waited years to receive mine, while the US-based Circuit Co caused OP to lose over 600,000 USD |
| 17:35:21 | kaen | ouch |
| 17:36:05 | ace___ | Yeah, I even tried getting ahold of Circuit Co myself, but they never answer their phones, unless you want a contract from them. |
| 17:36:22 | kaen | "circuit co" |
| 17:36:30 | kaen | sounds dubious right off the bat. |
| 17:36:42 | ace___ | :) |
| 17:37:01 | ace___ | They joked about the owner looking like a weaseling car salesman |
| 17:37:51 | | Flynnn has joined |
| 17:39:55 | | Watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 17:44:22 | ace___ | @kaen I'm working on a web design contract |
| 17:45:39 | ace___ | With a guy that calls me six times an hour, contacts the university, and my folks for some odd reason. He keeps asking if the site is done, and talks to me for AT LEAST (and I stress this) an hour everytime |
| 17:46:40 | kaen | very hands-on client, eh? |
| 17:47:06 | kaen | oh wait, you mean he calls your parents?! |
| 17:47:11 | kaen | (folks?) |
| 17:47:39 | ace___ | Yes..... that's an issue..... I have no idea where he got their phone numbers from, since I never give them to anyone |
| 17:47:55 | kaen | ok, that's insane. |
| 17:48:22 | Nothing_Much | what the hell? |
| 17:48:23 | Nothing_Much | dude |
| 17:48:30 | Nothing_Much | contact the police or something |
| 17:48:33 | kaen | lol |
| 17:48:40 | Nothing_Much | that's actually stalking/harassment |
| 17:48:43 | Nothing_Much | srsly |
| 17:49:04 | thread_ | I want to know how he calls you six times an hour and talks an hour each time |
| 17:49:05 | kaen | hard to get someone to pay an invoice after you call the police on them, though |
| 17:49:20 | kaen | thread_, I imagine he doesn't answer six times an hour :P |
| 17:49:30 | Nothing_Much | is it worth it though? o.o |
| 17:49:32 | kaen | I certainly wouldn't |
| 17:49:34 | ace___ | As for being hands-on, he's only paying me $500 and expects me to create a website with e-commerce, social media integration, chat rooms and such before November 1st |
| 17:49:57 | kaen | oh, magento |
| 17:50:01 | kaen | :) |
| 17:50:53 | kaen | shell out the $50 for a pro-grade theme and you just netted an easy $450 |
| 17:51:31 | kaen | hell, you could even bill him for it as a materials cost |
| 17:52:13 | Nothing_Much | oh dear |
| 17:53:13 | ace___ | No, I don't answer him after he had the audacity to call me socially awkward in public. Can someone who's socially awkward teach university-level IT courses, form a business and marketing conference, or be in the top 10% of Customer Service ratings 8 months in a row at West Corp? No! |
| 17:53:39 | Nothing_Much | oh my |
| 17:55:02 | raptor | heh - whenever someone calls me socially awkward I say "of course I am, you wouldn't expect an engineer that's not, would you?" |
| 17:55:13 | raptor | actually, I smile and leave the room |
| 17:55:21 | raptor | but I think it! |
| 17:56:02 | ace___ | That's the thing.... I took this contract because I needed the half payment he gave me.... not to mention, I can make a killing in merchandising rights and back-end sales of the trilogy |
| 17:57:26 | ace___ | If he sells 1 million books, he'll make at least 17 million in conservative profit..... that's what I want a piece of, but it's a religious series and he said something about not seeing "my protectors" |
| 17:58:07 | ace___ | I have an old grade-school friend that's a mechanical engineer :) |
| 18:01:26 | ace___ | I have another friend who's the Founder and CTO of a multi-million dollar tech company. He's a high-school dropout who paid Penn State Student's tuition to have them work for him at well above normal industry pay. My skills are more creative, than technical. I don't know tons of programming languages inside and out, but I feel that I could take his company to the next level |
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| 18:08:49 | raptor | dinner! back later |
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| 18:27:06 | ace___ | What to do, what to do..... Maybe I should hire Seal Team 6 to retrieve the tape |
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