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| 01:06:05 | Watusimoto | hi |
| 01:07:29 | Watusimoto | hey raptor, if you are around i have a design question for you |
| 01:16:23 | raptor | hi Watusimoto |
| 01:16:28 | Watusimoto | hi |
| 01:16:41 | raptor | just add glossy round corners and it'll sell! |
| 01:16:55 | Watusimoto | congratulations on finishing your course! |
| 01:17:11 | raptor | thanks |
| 01:17:28 | Watusimoto | so I fixed this editor crash, and I dedicded we should move all the attr menu stuff back into the objects |
| 01:17:29 | Watusimoto | that is... |
| 01:17:41 | raptor | into the class files, you mean |
| 01:18:05 | Watusimoto | yes |
| 01:18:08 | Watusimoto | make this |
| 01:18:09 | Watusimoto | http://hastebin.com/ixemugiqal.txt |
| 01:18:25 | Watusimoto | currently most of these lines are in a separate file |
| 01:18:46 | Watusimoto | which I think I created to get the code out of the asteroid et al classes |
| 01:18:59 | Watusimoto | because it is ui specific and we want to separate the ui code form the game logic code |
| 01:19:03 | raptor | ah yes |
| 01:19:05 | raptor | that code |
| 01:19:10 | Watusimoto | but I also think it really belongs with the objects |
| 01:19:12 | raptor | i was never sure where to stash it |
| 01:19:31 | Watusimoto | so I want to move it back (the pendulum has reversed direction, I guess) |
| 01:19:37 | raptor | heh |
| 01:19:56 | Watusimoto | but I think I've decided to move it back and surround it with an ifdef |
| 01:20:01 | Watusimoto | like we do elsewhere |
| 01:20:11 | Watusimoto | even though I've been trying to get rid of that pattern |
| 01:20:31 | Watusimoto | (I hope all this is clear) |
| 01:20:47 | Watusimoto | but I had a thought about creating subclasses of all our objects for use in the editor |
| 01:21:06 | Watusimoto | so asteroid_editor, for example, to hold all the editor specific methods |
| 01:21:25 | Watusimoto | but I thought about how much work that would be, and how marginal the benefits... |
| 01:21:52 | Watusimoto | and thought what we really need is asteroid >> asteroid_client >> asteroid_editor |
| 01:21:58 | Watusimoto | and that's just a mess |
| 01:22:21 | Watusimoto | so the ifdefs seem the least worst choice at this point |
| 01:23:14 | raptor | yes |
| 01:23:26 | Watusimoto | that's all |
| 01:23:28 | raptor | remember that stackoverflow question I asked about just this thing |
| 01:23:37 | raptor | but it was server/client classes |
| 01:23:49 | raptor | because the ifdefs seem ugly |
| 01:24:25 | raptor | and i'm not sure i'm mature enough as a coder to have a good idea how to solve this problem elegantly |
| 01:26:45 | Watusimoto | I don't think it's a maturity question |
| 01:26:53 | Watusimoto | I'm just not sure there is a really good solution |
| 01:39:39 | raptor | I'm fine with whatever you do.. because I haven't solved it either |
| 01:56:34 | Watusimoto | I'm ifdeffing it |
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| 02:08:57 | raptor | falling asleep... night! |
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| 11:53:49 | | ChanServ sets mode +o |
| 11:53:58 | raptor | good day! |
| 11:58:53 | raptor | I gotta stop playing Master of Orion |
| 11:59:01 | raptor | with dosbox! |
| 12:02:13 | | JeffMB has joined |
| 12:06:04 | JeffMB | woo i think i got some MB Players coming over to BF =) |
| 12:06:23 | JeffMB | reaction: |
| 12:06:31 | JeffMB | Frosty the Snowman (Webchat): holy crap is that zap!? |
| 12:06:58 | raptor | hi |
| 12:07:01 | raptor | great! |
| 12:07:20 | raptor | they should come for the party tomorrow night at 9pm EST |
| 12:07:29 | JeffMB | i'll make sure to tell them about it |
| 12:07:49 | JeffMB | but yeah, i expect they'll want to at least try it out because of marble blast online being part of Instant Action, they knew about Zap! as well |
| 12:07:55 | raptor | sky_lark puts on these weekly parties... he usually starts about 10-15 min late, so don't get discouraged if you show up and there's just a few people waiting in the lobby |
| 12:08:22 | JeffMB | sounds cool. yeah Little_apple and F00tieloose were talking bout it earlier with me today |
| 12:08:37 | raptor | oh cool - is marble blast still ahve a master server for multiplayer? |
| 12:08:40 | raptor | *does |
| 12:10:01 | JeffMB | yeah we host it on marbleblast.com, as well as 4 dedicated servers |
| 12:10:20 | raptor | JeffMB: tell me a bit more about marbleblast development - is it still ongoing? or is it mostly modding + the original released games |
| 12:10:23 | JeffMB | we have some perl process running a reliable UDP listener |
| 12:10:32 | JeffMB | well |
| 12:10:55 | JeffMB | its all 100% community mod driven, ever since IA shut down IAC took over the IP and has sealed off any knowledge about further dev to the game |
| 12:11:15 | JeffMB | the most prominent mod is Marble Blast Platinum which has had over 60,000 downloads over the past 6 years |
| 12:11:48 | JeffMB | our community is still kicking, we had i believe 10,000 unique visitors to our website over the past 9 months |
| 12:12:09 | JeffMB | we've had 15,000 downloads of MBG just this year |
| 12:12:25 | raptor | hehe, that's about an order-of-magnitude larger than us |
| 12:12:51 | JeffMB | =P |
| 12:12:53 | raptor | is there a linux download somewhere? |
| 12:12:54 | JeffMB | i was amazed too |
| 12:13:38 | JeffMB | well, unfortunatly, we do not provide a linux version of mbp or mbg, because the linux verison requires ignition activation. someone was able to hax it out by our engine extender where we hax function offsets and inject code, but no one ever did official release |
| 12:14:08 | JeffMB | (yeah we have injection system for native c++ plugins :P) |
| 12:14:22 | JeffMB | since they won't give us the damn c++! |
| 12:14:35 | JeffMB | it does work 100% compatible on WinE though |
| 12:14:46 | JeffMB | brb in about 10mins |
| 12:15:01 | raptor | haha - yeah, there were utilities like that for Zap, too, before watusimoto made it bitfighter |
| 12:17:37 | raptor | well, i downloaded the OSX platinum binary and extracted teh JAR |
| 12:19:12 | | Watusimoto has joined |
| 12:20:31 | raptor | ha! it's running now... and downloading junk to my home directory |
| 12:21:25 | raptor | looks like windows software, though - so I'll have to run WINE |
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| 12:30:30 | JeffMB | the jar is to download the game from our amazon hosted server |
| 12:30:34 | JeffMB | its so we can push updates :) |
| 12:30:43 | raptor | ha! it worked |
| 12:30:48 | raptor | running in WINE on linux |
| 12:30:50 | JeffMB | you will have to make a forums account for leaderboard access. |
| 12:30:52 | JeffMB | sweet |
| 12:31:02 | JeffMB | on lbs, there's online multiplayer too |
| 12:31:14 | JeffMB | gem hunt just like marble blast online |
| 12:31:21 | JeffMB | with new game modes coming in a future update such as tag |
| 12:31:33 | raptor | so is this game abandonware? seems like it downloaded the full thing with platinum modes |
| 12:31:35 | raptor | *mods |
| 12:31:54 | JeffMB | not really abandonware, as the IP still is held by IAC |
| 12:32:24 | JeffMB | also at least on windows it downloads to your appdata, on mac i believe its in ur home dir |
| 12:32:45 | raptor | are you guys worried you may get a cease-and-desist letter one day? |
| 12:33:07 | JeffMB | MBP had permission as an official mod of the game in 2007 before IAC took the thing, so it can't be retroactive |
| 12:33:21 | JeffMB | they agreed to stay with the same terms as GarageGames |
| 12:33:25 | raptor | ah ok |
| 12:33:41 | JeffMB | the thing that could give us that is the engine hacking we've done |
| 12:33:42 | JeffMB | :p |
| 12:33:51 | JeffMB | BUT its a patch, we never modified the exe fie |
| 12:34:43 | JeffMB | then again, the platinum team didn't make it, another community member did: https://github.com/amd7/MBExtender |
| 12:36:30 | JeffMB | also, I have no worries, I'm not the leader of the thing, nor am i the uploader/endorser of MBP. IsraeliRD is the owner of the site and of MBP, so he'll get the ceast and desist :P |
| 12:36:35 | | Watusimoto has joined |
| 12:36:59 | raptor | ha |
| 12:37:02 | JeffMB | us programmers license our custom code to him under the BSD, so its all on him |
| 12:37:03 | JeffMB | :) |
| 12:42:08 | raptor | and I even posted on your forums |
| 12:42:15 | raptor | in 'Say Hello' |
| 12:42:21 | raptor | now maybe i can log in online |
| 12:43:26 | JeffMB | look at you goin' ham |
| 12:43:28 | JeffMB | also |
| 12:43:29 | JeffMB | Lord GabeN descends to earth and blesses humanity with the Holy Steam Sales in 20 minutes |
| 12:43:36 | JeffMB | prepare your wallets |
| 12:43:43 | raptor | huh? |
| 12:43:52 | JeffMB | i guess steam sales :p |
| 12:43:58 | JeffMB | someone messaged me that on skype |
| 12:44:41 | raptor | is there a way to reduce the framerate? |
| 12:45:20 | JeffMB | setVerticalSync(true); |
| 12:45:28 | JeffMB | open console with ~ |
| 12:45:35 | raptor | excellent |
| 12:45:35 | JeffMB | or F10 |
| 12:45:37 | JeffMB | :p |
| 12:45:38 | raptor | thanks |
| 12:45:40 | JeffMB | sure |
| 12:45:44 | JeffMB | also approving your post now |
| 12:45:51 | JeffMB | for the first five posts admins have to approve of them |
| 12:46:05 | raptor | ah ok |
| 12:46:08 | raptor | i don't mind |
| 12:54:16 | raptor | wow, these levels can be huge |
| 12:54:27 | JeffMB | =) |
| 12:54:32 | raptor | is there an editor? |
| 12:55:03 | JeffMB | outside of the leaderboards, yeah |
| 13:06:54 | watusimoto1 | hi |
| 13:09:08 | JeffMB | hello |
| 13:09:22 | raptor | watusimoto1: i just played marbleblast |
| 13:09:34 | raptor | another garagegames game using torque elements |
| 13:09:58 | raptor | looks like they have a larger community, though |
| 13:10:31 | raptor | what is this challenge thing i accepted |
| 13:11:03 | watusimoto1 | I've never tried it, but I remember it |
| 13:11:33 | watusimoto1 | it would be frustrating working on a game without source code; with source is bad enough! :-) |
| 13:11:36 | JeffMB | its a mode where you race against each other in single player levels in a leaderboards envirionment, although nobody usually plays it |
| 13:11:43 | JeffMB | yeah it was hell. |
| 13:11:47 | JeffMB | tons of TorqueScript hacks |
| 13:12:00 | JeffMB | we had to hack the multiplayer to get it to work :/ |
| 13:12:03 | watusimoto1 | I'd be tempted to recreate the engine |
| 13:12:05 | raptor | haha sam686 showed up in the MB lobby |
| 13:12:05 | JeffMB | since MBG didn't have it |
| 13:12:15 | sam686 | hi |
| 13:12:18 | JeffMB | hallo |
| 13:12:21 | watusimoto1 | hi sam686 |
| 13:12:27 | JeffMB | Torque3D is open source now |
| 13:12:35 | JeffMB | but its vastly different from TGE |
| 13:12:48 | JeffMB | there was talk in getting TGE 1.4.2 open source, but nothing has happened |
| 13:13:20 | raptor | well it works on WINE |
| 13:13:23 | raptor | for the most part |
| 13:13:36 | raptor | and there are definitely Torque-ish things in that game |
| 13:13:59 | JeffMB | i believe the game was made using TGE 1.1.2 |
| 13:14:18 | watusimoto1 | TNL, the lib we use, works surpringly well |
| 13:14:29 | watusimoto1 | we haven't needed to patch it much |
| 13:14:29 | JeffMB | you know the engine is old when the openGL trace stack has no VBOs in it |
| 13:14:53 | watusimoto1 | TNL is probably a precursor to TGE |
| 13:15:05 | JeffMB | actually TNL came after TGE in 2004. |
| 13:15:09 | raptor | oh yeah... we use zero graphics stuff from TNL |
| 13:15:13 | watusimoto1 | ok |
| 13:15:23 | watusimoto1 | does TNL even haev graphics stuff? |
| 13:15:25 | JeffMB | no |
| 13:15:30 | JeffMB | its just the networking lib |
| 13:15:30 | raptor | i don't think so - i bet it's just the network bit |
| 13:15:34 | watusimoto1 | yes |
| 13:15:42 | watusimoto1 | that would be why we don't use its graphics stuff |
| 13:15:43 | watusimoto1 | :-) |
| 13:15:51 | JeffMB | i've looked at TNL before, but i don't like it because its GPL |
| 13:16:09 | watusimoto1 | it works for our purposes |
| 13:16:16 | watusimoto1 | (the license, I mean) |
| 13:16:18 | JeffMB | i've considered making libTN or something based from the MIT Torque3D |
| 13:16:34 | JeffMB | its fantastic network code |
| 13:16:50 | JeffMB | if Torque2D didn't strip networking, u guys coulda used that ;p |
| 13:16:50 | raptor | our version of TNL is probably too different to drop in the newer stuff |
| 13:16:56 | watusimoto1 | TNL is pretty much unused as far as I know |
| 13:17:05 | watusimoto1 | I don't know any other projects using it |
| 13:17:24 | JeffMB | i gotta find a network lib for my c++ project :/ |
| 13:17:31 | JeffMB | i considered just strippign it out of T3D |
| 13:17:53 | watusimoto1 | you could do worse than TNL, if you can abide by the GPL |
| 13:18:52 | watusimoto1 | but if I were starting from scratch, I'd probably go with a more used lib, like raknet |
| 13:18:54 | JeffMB | also someone is finally porting lua to Torque. about time after 10 years of TS :P |
| 13:19:00 | JeffMB | hmm |
| 13:19:10 | watusimoto1 | we embedded lua in Bitfighter |
| 13:19:13 | JeffMB | as long as the code is cross platform and PowerPC compatible |
| 13:19:15 | watusimoto1 | our bots are scripted in lua |
| 13:19:31 | watusimoto1 | and levels can contain lua fragments that generate items and shapes and such |
| 13:19:37 | JeffMB | ah okay |
| 13:19:47 | JeffMB | how hard was it to embed lua? |
| 13:19:54 | watusimoto1 | and now you can even have level-based scripts that handle events and such |
| 13:20:01 | JeffMB | im gonna probably do some lua embedding sometime |
| 13:20:04 | watusimoto1 | pretty easy to get to stage 1 |
| 13:20:26 | watusimoto1 | I'd say we're at stage 3 or 4, and we've had some interesting challenges along the way |
| 13:20:34 | watusimoto1 | but it is working really well now |
| 13:21:25 | JeffMB | good to hear |
| 13:21:49 | watusimoto1 | it is pretty cool -- we have several players who can write at least basic scripts |
| 13:22:36 | watusimoto1 | we've been working really hard to make the api easy |
| 13:22:41 | JeffMB | i never got into lua but i've wanted to |
| 13:22:55 | JeffMB | i'm more of that C/C++ nerd |
| 13:23:11 | JeffMB | and TorqueScript as its like C++ |
| 13:23:33 | JeffMB | i mean if i had to sit down and write a lua program, i could get by but meh |
| 13:23:58 | JeffMB | it seems like lua is "the thing" in game scripting |
| 13:24:05 | watusimoto1 | it's very lightweight |
| 13:24:10 | JeffMB | you guys use the JIT lua or just lua? |
| 13:24:14 | watusimoto1 | and with jit (the variant we use) very fast |
| 13:24:21 | JeffMB | haha perfect timing |
| 13:24:22 | JeffMB | :p |
| 13:24:26 | raptor | next release version uses LuaJIT |
| 13:24:27 | watusimoto1 | we've iterated from lua to luavec to luajit |
| 13:24:42 | watusimoto1 | the performance is really quite astounding |
| 13:24:44 | JeffMB | so i assume best would be to just start with luaJIT? |
| 13:24:51 | watusimoto1 | I would |
| 13:25:06 | watusimoto1 | but you have to hope that luajit continues to move forward |
| 13:25:06 | JeffMB | u know if it runs on ppc osx? :P |
| 13:25:10 | raptor | LuaJIT does *not* compile on all platforms |
| 13:25:10 | watusimoto1 | yes |
| 13:25:14 | watusimoto1 | no? |
| 13:25:24 | watusimoto1 | I thought it pretty much did now |
| 13:25:30 | raptor | it has two parts: standard interpreter and the JIT VM |
| 13:25:48 | raptor | the first part should, the second... no: http://luajit.org/install.html |
| 13:25:59 | watusimoto1 | I will defer to raptor in this departiment... |
| 13:26:10 | raptor | i cheated - our OSX PPC version still uses lua-vec, but without the vec parts |
| 13:26:24 | JeffMB | ah |
| 13:26:25 | raptor | the reason was gcc 4.3 doesn't exist on osx ppc |
| 13:26:33 | JeffMB | yeah :( its GCC 3 |
| 13:26:37 | watusimoto1 | and probably never will |
| 13:26:56 | JeffMB | is there a huge performance penalty if you just use standard lua? |
| 13:27:05 | JeffMB | i mean it has to be heaps faster than TorqueScript |
| 13:27:13 | raptor | the LuaJIT standard interpreter is still about twice as fast as standard Lua |
| 13:27:15 | JeffMB | TorqueScript has massive overhead from calling functions :/ |
| 13:27:31 | raptor | but the JIT'd VM is anywhere from 10x to 100x faster |
| 13:27:41 | JeffMB | ooo |
| 13:27:59 | raptor | it's so fast that using the C API so extensively with our bitfighter API is slowing it down |
| 13:28:07 | raptor | when creating levelgen scripts or bots |
| 13:28:23 | sam686 | when a separate program makes the entire screen darken for user access control prompt, marble blash crashes. i think it might be directx problem. |
| 13:28:23 | JeffMB | oh wow |
| 13:28:34 | JeffMB | switch to OpenGL |
| 13:28:37 | raptor | sam686: i switched to opengl renderer |
| 13:28:42 | JeffMB | i want to remove DX form the game |
| 13:28:49 | JeffMB | but the head doesn't want me too |
| 13:29:01 | JeffMB | its Dx7 that's hacked around openGL functions for old cards that didn't support openGL 1.2 |
| 13:29:05 | raptor | oh man, the whole thing is 332 MB |
| 13:29:10 | raptor | (marble blast) |
| 13:29:21 | JeffMB | mbg is only 34mb |
| 13:29:29 | raptor | ah ok |
| 13:29:30 | JeffMB | we got 3 games in MBP ;) |
| 13:29:37 | JeffMB | MBG, MBP, and MBUltra |
| 13:29:44 | raptor | what is the ultra? |
| 13:29:58 | JeffMB | it was the marble blast online version and what is on the xbox360 |
| 13:30:07 | sam686 | i can confirm opengl don't have the crash problem when a separate program darkens asking for user access control |
| 13:30:13 | raptor | we stripped xbox code out of our code base.. |
| 13:30:40 | watusimoto1 | there was very little actual code for xbox... |
| 13:30:54 | watusimoto1 | It would be cool to make it work there, but none of us has an xbox |
| 13:30:57 | raptor | ha, true |
| 13:31:03 | JeffMB | xd |
| 13:31:13 | JeffMB | also thx for crash report, I'm gonna go bitch to them |
| 13:31:21 | JeffMB | i've been trying to remove dx forever |
| 13:31:28 | JeffMB | or at least make the openGL the default |
| 13:32:14 | sam686 | the in-game fps counter seems way too inaccurate, claiming its at only 53 fps, but a program called "Fraps" measues it as 145 fps |
| 13:32:39 | JeffMB | hmm, odd |
| 13:32:46 | JeffMB | its usually been accurate |
| 13:33:33 | sam686 | its very smooth so i would agree on the 145 fps more then 50 |
| 13:34:03 | sam686 | fps drops if not an active window though |
| 13:34:25 | JeffMB | yeah, thats in the engine it checks if the process is a background process and then makes it sleep for 100ms |
| 13:34:41 | JeffMB | or somewhere close to that |
| 13:38:08 | JeffMB | also that C performance drop is probably going back/forth between C/lua ? |
| 13:38:19 | raptor | yes |
| 13:38:36 | raptor | pure Lua code is JIT-compiled whereas using the CAPI cannot be |
| 13:38:47 | JeffMB | ah |
| 13:41:46 | watusimoto1 | the c api is kind of miserable to work with, so that's actually good news |
| 13:42:01 | watusimoto1 | only use it when you really need it... no temptation to use it to boost performance |
| 13:42:03 | raptor | miserable is an understatement |
| 13:42:30 | JeffMB | :P |
| 13:43:28 | JeffMB | am i abusing the C preprocessor to much? |
| 13:43:30 | JeffMB | #define println(...) do { printf(__VA_ARGS__); printf("\n"); } while (0) |
| 13:43:42 | raptor | no... it's meant for abuse |
| 14:04:22 | sam686 | maybe just turn do{ }while(0) into just { }, unless you need to use 'break;' inside the do/while. |
| 14:05:01 | raptor | i think it's a compiler trick to have compiler optimizations remove the code completely when doing a release build. that way you have your debug statements compiled out |
| 14:05:36 | sam686 | well then maybe the compiler is stupid |
| 14:05:42 | raptor | haha |
| 14:05:59 | raptor | it's so a release build has no trace of debugging statements |
| 14:06:26 | JeffMB | its a trick requiring you to use a ; at the end XD |
| 14:07:39 | JeffMB | its faster than making an inline and pushing the var args into vprintf and then printf |
| 14:09:06 | raptor | bah! |
| 14:09:16 | raptor | all my firefox browsers switched search to Yahoo |
| 14:09:51 | JeffMB | that happened to me too! |
| 14:09:55 | JeffMB | like 4 days ago |
| 14:10:07 | JeffMB | i have no idea why |
| 14:10:28 | sam686 | let me guess, coused by either a firefox update? or some virus? |
| 14:10:33 | raptor | the firefox-google deal has expired |
| 14:10:38 | raptor | they renewed with yahoo |
| 14:12:19 | sam686 | https://www.google.com/search?q=firefox%20switch%20to%20yahoo then it appears its just an update that auto-switched search |
| 14:13:57 | JeffMB | :c |
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| 18:26:56 | JeffMB | so pissed. spent 2 hours debugging my OpenGL code little to find out that I put 5 indices per quad instead of 6. go figure |
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| 19:10:19 | Nothing_Much | Hello |
| 19:11:55 | Nothing_Much | raptor: You didn't hear about the renewal process of Firefox? |
| 19:12:05 | Nothing_Much | Mozilla signed a contract with Yahoo |
| 19:12:21 | Nothing_Much | Honestly, I can't blame them, since Google has their own browser that spies on pretty much anybody |
| 19:25:39 | JeffMB | :) |
| 19:28:38 | JeffMB | still trying to convince mom and dad to stop using IE. its 2014 : |
| 19:28:40 | JeffMB | :/ |
| 19:29:18 | | raptor Quit () |
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| 19:43:46 | Nothing_Much | JeffMB: Well, at least IE is now conforming to open web standards |
| 19:43:47 | Nothing_Much | Finally |
| 19:54:34 | JeffMB | yeah |
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| 20:36:10 | JeffMB | any of you guys ever have to compile libMNG before? |
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| 20:50:01 | Nothing_Much | JeffMB: I have no idea what that does |
| 20:50:06 | Nothing_Much | But I have compiled Bitfighter before |
| 20:50:22 | Nothing_Much | Sadly I can't use checkinstall to simply make a package for Debian-based distros :( |
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| 21:04:05 | JeffMB | i got it to compile |
| 21:04:10 | JeffMB | its a library for images |
| 21:14:00 | Nothing_Much | oh okay |
| 21:14:01 | fordcars | JeffMB, are you coding in C++? |
| 21:14:15 | fordcars | Only curious |
| 21:22:50 | JeffMB | yeah |
| 21:23:53 | JeffMB | u know how to make a universal x86_64 and i368 binary on osx with cmake by chance? libjpg isn't making a fat binary |
| 21:25:34 | JeffMB | found it |
| 21:25:36 | JeffMB | ./configure CFLAGS="-arch i386 -arch x86_64" CXXFLAGS="-arch i386 -arch x86_64" LDFLAGS="-arch i386 -arch x86_64" --disable-dependency-tracking |
| 21:25:38 | JeffMB | in case u wanted to know |
| 21:50:53 | JeffMB | hahaha i think i got another one |
| 21:51:00 | JeffMB | "ZAP? omg I loved zap" |
| 21:58:13 | | Invisible has joined |
| 21:59:31 | fordcars | Hahaha awesome! |
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| 22:54:50 | | watusimoto has joined |
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| 23:09:48 | | Watusimoto_ has joined |
| 23:27:20 | | raptor has joined |
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| 23:27:47 | | Invisible has joined |
| 23:28:25 | raptor | good evening! |
| 23:32:45 | JeffMB | 'evenin |
| 23:33:03 | raptor | JeffMB: know anything about assembly? |
| 23:33:10 | JeffMB | nope |
| 23:33:17 | JeffMB | that's one area i stay away from |
| 23:33:32 | Nothing_Much | what assembly? |
| 23:33:44 | Nothing_Much | is it x86 assembly or arm assembly? |
| 23:33:53 | raptor | ppc assembly :) |
| 23:33:56 | JeffMB | obviously ppc |
| 23:33:58 | JeffMB | hahahahaha |
| 23:33:59 | Nothing_Much | oh my |
| 23:34:02 | Nothing_Much | obviously? |
| 23:34:20 | | Invisible Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 23:34:27 | raptor | my only communication with JeffMB so far has been about ppc |
| 23:34:36 | raptor | not only.. mostly |
| 23:34:37 | JeffMB | isn't that sad :/ |
| 23:34:42 | Nothing_Much | ohh |
| 23:34:51 | Nothing_Much | wait, why bother with ppc anyways? |
| 23:34:57 | JeffMB | because yolo? |
| 23:35:09 | fordcars | PPC or no pc |
| 23:35:10 | Nothing_Much | just wonderin' because I think a higher priority would be getting Bitfighter on Steam or Debian |
| 23:35:14 | raptor | only because we support in 019 and we're about to release an update for 019 |
| 23:35:25 | Nothing_Much | ohh ok |
| 23:35:43 | JeffMB | also, you can call me Jeff if ya like, i just have my name with MB cuz IRC was all JEFF IS IN USE |
| 23:35:48 | Nothing_Much | honestly, I think dropping ppc for 020 or 021 would be best |
| 23:35:54 | Nothing_Much | JeffMB: well, this is to highlight |
| 23:35:59 | Nothing_Much | and I don't have to type in the whole thing |
| 23:35:59 | fordcars | JeffMB: |
| 23:36:03 | Nothing_Much | tab complete ftw! |
| 23:36:10 | JeffMB | oh |
| 23:36:13 | Nothing_Much | type in "not" then hit the tab button |
| 23:36:15 | Nothing_Much | watch what happens! |
| 23:36:19 | fordcars | I always forget tab auto-complete haha |
| 23:36:23 | JeffMB | oh sweet |
| 23:36:24 | JeffMB | :P |
| 23:36:29 | Nothing_Much | it works with any name, really |
| 23:36:30 | JeffMB | sorry its been a while i've been on a freenode irc :P |
| 23:36:36 | Nothing_Much | ah |
| 23:36:48 | JeffMB | marble blast IRC is custom coded, it don't have all this good stuff :p |
| 23:36:58 | JeffMB | also |
| 23:37:01 | JeffMB | PPC forever! |
| 23:37:07 | fordcars | Haha yis |
| 23:37:12 | JeffMB | tbh, i actually just bought a powermac last week :P |
| 23:37:14 | Nothing_Much | yeah, I saw the MHz myth from 1998 or 1999 |
| 23:37:28 | JeffMB | i was like. hmm, did good in college this semester. *buys a ppc for christmas* |
| 23:37:34 | JeffMB | ^true story |
| 23:37:44 | fordcars | JeffMB: PowerMac G5? |
| 23:37:47 | JeffMB | yessir |
| 23:37:49 | JeffMB | dual core |
| 23:37:55 | fordcars | Hah |
| 23:37:56 | Nothing_Much | honestly, I wish there were more architectures outside of ARM and x86, and especially x86 because I can't stand x86 in general |
| 23:38:06 | JeffMB | but x86 is master race |
| 23:38:11 | Nothing_Much | sadly that's true |
| 23:38:21 | Nothing_Much | I hope it dies within another 3 decades |
| 23:38:24 | fordcars | Nothing_Much: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_CPU_architectures |
| 23:38:30 | Nothing_Much | fordcars: I'm fully aware of those |
| 23:38:33 | Nothing_Much | But they aren't on desktops |
| 23:38:35 | JeffMB | don't dis on the powermac g5. |
| 23:38:38 | fordcars | Haha nop |
| 23:38:40 | JeffMB | that thing can even run shaders |
| 23:38:42 | JeffMB | :o |
| 23:38:49 | JeffMB | OpenGL stack is 2.0 |
| 23:39:01 | Nothing_Much | well, if PPC had an impact on the desktop |
| 23:39:03 | fordcars | JeffMB: I have an old PowerMac G4 in my basement, fancy blue door thing |
| 23:39:03 | Nothing_Much | then I'd have no problem |
| 23:39:11 | Nothing_Much | but since x86 pretty much dominates the desktops... |
| 23:39:13 | Nothing_Much | blah |
| 23:39:20 | JeffMB | sooo |
| 23:39:25 | JeffMB | you guys looking to get BF on steam? |
| 23:39:32 | JeffMB | that's a hell of a lot of work integrating it |
| 23:39:33 | fordcars | Eventually |
| 23:39:34 | Nothing_Much | JeffMB: well, that and Debian |
| 23:39:37 | fordcars | I think |
| 23:39:45 | Nothing_Much | but I think Debian would be a better choice, really |
| 23:39:49 | JeffMB | have you ever seen the steam API? |
| 23:39:50 | Nothing_Much | we just need a package maintainer |
| 23:39:51 | JeffMB | ;p |
| 23:39:53 | fordcars | Nothing_Much: It's getting there :) |
| 23:39:56 | Nothing_Much | not me |
| 23:40:03 | Nothing_Much | fordcars: you sure? was kaen around for that recently? |
| 23:40:09 | JeffMB | i've heard about the steam API. nasty shit :P |
| 23:40:09 | fordcars | Raptor has been working on it I think |
| 23:40:14 | fordcars | I dunnno |
| 23:40:14 | raptor | say what? |
| 23:40:16 | Nothing_Much | ohh |
| 23:40:22 | JeffMB | steam integration raptor? |
| 23:40:27 | Nothing_Much | raptor: were you working on getting BF on Debian? |
| 23:40:27 | JeffMB | they sayin' ur integrating into steam |
| 23:40:28 | fordcars | No Debian sorry :/ |
| 23:40:44 | Nothing_Much | getting it on Steam then, fordcars? |
| 23:40:45 | fordcars | , |
| 23:40:45 | raptor | no, but debian... this next release is much more compatible with debian |
| 23:40:51 | Nothing_Much | ah cool |
| 23:40:55 | fordcars | Yey! |
| 23:41:07 | fordcars | Nothing_Much: I forgot that important comma |
| 23:41:10 | Nothing_Much | yeah, I'd love to see BF in the Ubuntu 15.10 or better, 15.04 releases |
| 23:41:18 | Nothing_Much | fordcars: yeah, commas make big differences |
| 23:41:30 | fordcars | Let's eat grandma! |
| 23:41:33 | JeffMB | so wait, does bitfighter use OpenGL or software rendering? |
| 23:41:36 | Nothing_Much | lol |
| 23:41:40 | Nothing_Much | JeffMB: OpenGL |
| 23:41:40 | fordcars | OpenGl 1.2 |
| 23:41:49 | JeffMB | ah okay, the easy opengl :p |
| 23:41:55 | Nothing_Much | It also uses software rendering, but it's like.. super slow |
| 23:42:03 | fordcars | Lol, it's old |
| 23:42:19 | JeffMB | i just started messing with openGL 2.0 shaders last week. my mind has been blown |
| 23:42:23 | fordcars | Raptor wants to upgrade to shaders soon |
| 23:42:32 | JeffMB | Hey, im supporting openGL 1.3 in my application, :P |
| 23:42:35 | raptor | opengl can be done in software, so the answer is yes to both :) |
| 23:42:37 | Nothing_Much | we should upgrade to shaders alongside.. uh.. OpenGLES 2.0 |
| 23:42:43 | JeffMB | ES? |
| 23:42:44 | JeffMB | :/ |
| 23:42:47 | JeffMB | whyyy |
| 23:42:52 | raptor | yes, the goal is GLES2 |
| 23:42:53 | fordcars | RPi :) |
| 23:42:58 | JeffMB | ooooh |
| 23:42:59 | JeffMB | makes sense |
| 23:43:00 | Nothing_Much | JeffMB: mobile consoles and stuff :D |
| 23:43:06 | fordcars | ES is pretty good I believe |
| 23:43:13 | fordcars | I dunno much though |
| 23:43:16 | JeffMB | i figured ya'd just PAL it and have an abstraction layer for desktop GL and mobile GL |
| 23:43:29 | Nothing_Much | does that exist? |
| 23:43:34 | JeffMB | you gotta make it |
| 23:43:36 | fordcars | Bitfighter uses old shit |
| 23:43:36 | Nothing_Much | JeffMB: we tried looking for a compatibility layer or something |
| 23:43:38 | Nothing_Much | oh ok |
| 23:44:00 | JeffMB | like you make a nice abstract class and then inherit off of it to do API specific things |
| 23:44:08 | fordcars | kaen did really cool stuff with shaders btw Nothing_Much. |
| 23:44:13 | fordcars | Really cool stuff |
| 23:44:22 | JeffMB | GLSL 100 or 120 i assume? |
| 23:44:27 | Nothing_Much | fordcars: yeah, he's not responding on Skype tho |
| 23:44:37 | fordcars | :( We works now |
| 23:44:43 | fordcars | Wait I'll get a link |
| 23:45:09 | Nothing_Much | fordcars: "we works now"? |
| 23:45:23 | fordcars | "He" |
| 23:45:25 | fordcars | :) |
| 23:45:49 | Nothing_Much | Yeah I know |
| 23:45:59 | Nothing_Much | So do I, but I make crap money |
| 23:46:07 | Nothing_Much | And learning coding is giving me a headache |
| 23:46:16 | JeffMB | awe its not that bad =) |
| 23:46:17 | fordcars | Nothing_Much: coding is easy :) |
| 23:46:35 | fordcars | Seriously, don't bother learning from a book or something Nothing_Much |
| 23:46:42 | fordcars | Just aim for a big project |
| 23:46:42 | JeffMB | ^ |
| 23:46:47 | fordcars | And try to make it work |
| 23:46:53 | Nothing_Much | fordcars: well, I tried doing that, but I don't know the basics |
| 23:46:54 | fordcars | You'll be a master after 1 day |
| 23:46:58 | JeffMB | i started out modifying marble blast, no tutorials on torquescript or anything (as they don't exist) |
| 23:47:00 | JeffMB | taught myself. |
| 23:47:15 | JeffMB | had to learn all the stuffs on my own |
| 23:47:24 | fordcars | Check out other code, copy it, make it run, make some big fancy project |
| 23:47:36 | fordcars | I swear Nothing_Much :) |
| 23:47:37 | Nothing_Much | I know Python basics as far as.. uh.. integers, booleans, and whitespaces |
| 23:47:38 | JeffMB | now im proficient in C++/C/TS/Java/C# among other misc. too |
| 23:48:03 | JeffMB | but i looooove C++ because i'm weird. |
| 23:48:06 | fordcars | Nothing_Much: https://wiki.python.org/moin/SimplePrograms |
| 23:48:18 | fordcars | Copy those and make them run, or just read them through |
| 23:48:36 | JeffMB | ye, i started doing a minecraft clone a couple of weeks ago, u might be interested in seeing this fordcards |
| 23:48:38 | JeffMB | sec |
| 23:48:54 | JeffMB | https://github.com/JeffProgrammer/cubegame-plus-plus/tree/worldgen |
| 23:48:57 | fordcars | Haha yes |
| 23:49:08 | fordcars | I love my username typo variations |
| 23:49:35 | JeffMB | oops |
| 23:49:51 | fordcars | Oooo looks fancy |
| 23:50:19 | JeffMB | not much though. just got chunks rendering :P |
| 23:50:38 | JeffMB | adding texture support now :P, then abstract graphics api for various versions of the openGL api |
| 23:50:59 | JeffMB | GL 1.3 core FFP, GL 1.5 core FFP, GL 2.0 shaders |
| 23:51:07 | JeffMB | might do a 3.0 core with VAOs |
| 23:51:21 | fordcars | Nice dude :) |
| 23:51:33 | fordcars | I suck at anything graphical |
| 23:51:44 | fordcars | Well, using "real graphics" |
| 23:51:51 | fordcars | As in "not HTML5" |
| 23:51:59 | JeffMB | heh |
| 23:52:06 | JeffMB | well I'm still a beginner at opengl thingsss |
| 23:52:16 | JeffMB | i started writing this in java using LWJGL, but decided to switch to C++ |
| 23:52:30 | JeffMB | java code here: https://github.com/JeffProgrammer/CubeGame |
| 23:53:16 | raptor | oh my goodness, luajit is compiling |
| 23:53:25 | JeffMB | wooo |
| 23:53:32 | raptor | aaand it failed... |
| 23:53:37 | raptor | but it was close! |
| 23:53:41 | JeffMB | :C |
| 23:53:52 | JeffMB | you trying PPC luaJIT? |
| 23:54:00 | raptor | OSX PPC LuaJIT |
| 23:54:05 | JeffMB | ohgod |
| 23:54:13 | raptor | which is, of course, badly broken |
| 23:54:21 | JeffMB | oh my god |
| 23:54:22 | fordcars | raptor: why are you still supporting PPC? |
| 23:54:27 | JeffMB | you are crazier than me :o |
| 23:54:28 | fordcars | I thought you droped it |
| 23:54:30 | raptor | but I got several classes to compile! |
| 23:54:37 | raptor | fordcars: it's supported in 019 |
| 23:54:43 | fordcars | Hah ok |
| 23:55:16 | raptor | also, since this current project is outside my knowledge... it's getting me into unknown scary areas of programming (which is kinda fun) |
| 23:55:28 | raptor | and ASM is scary |
| 23:55:28 | | HiGuy has joined |
| 23:55:33 | JeffMB | yeah |
| 23:55:37 | fordcars | You are writting asm? |
| 23:55:39 | JeffMB | that's why i support PPC. its fun to dabble with |
| 23:55:51 | HiGuy | Jeff supports asm because Jeff is insane |
| 23:55:56 | JeffMB | shaddup :P |
| 23:55:57 | HiGuy | rather |
| 23:55:59 | HiGuy | he can't let go |
| 23:56:04 | raptor | no no no, i haven't gone that bonkers yet |
| 23:56:08 | HiGuy | inb4 jeff regrets telling me to join IRC |
| 23:56:12 | JeffMB | lol |
| 23:56:17 | Nothing_Much | forgot to ask, are JeffMB and HiGuy new guys? |
| 23:56:19 | JeffMB | guys dis is one of the other MB devs |
| 23:56:25 | HiGuy | i'm the guy who does MBP |
| 23:56:28 | raptor | hi HiGuy |
| 23:56:29 | Nothing_Much | mbp? |
| 23:56:37 | HiGuy | and Jeff just sits there and watches |
| 23:56:43 | JeffMB | quiet you pleb :P |
| 23:56:43 | Nothing_Much | what's MB? |
| 23:56:44 | raptor | welcome to bitfighter! |
| 23:56:47 | JeffMB | Marble Blast |
| 23:56:52 | HiGuy | i heard you guys are a remake of Zap! |
| 23:56:52 | fordcars | MarbleBlast :) |
| 23:56:53 | Nothing_Much | lemme see |
| 23:56:56 | raptor | marble blast is our long lost cousin... |
| 23:56:58 | Nothing_Much | HiGuy: yep |
| 23:57:00 | raptor | 2nd cousin |
| 23:57:06 | raptor | twice removed |
| 23:57:11 | Nothing_Much | There was Zap! and then Z.A.P. |
| 23:57:14 | Nothing_Much | Now Bitfighter |
| 23:57:19 | Nothing_Much | according to what I looked up |
| 23:57:20 | fordcars | TribalTrouble is open source fyi |
| 23:57:21 | HiGuy | not sure which version was which |
| 23:57:29 | Nothing_Much | Zap! was the first one |
| 23:57:31 | HiGuy | i really enjoyed it on InstantAction |
| 23:57:35 | HiGuy | whichever version that was |
| 23:57:40 | fordcars | Z.A.P |
| 23:57:40 | Nothing_Much | I wish I was around during InstantAction |
| 23:57:49 | fordcars | I needed an Intel Mac haha |
| 23:57:53 | fordcars | Couldnèt play |
| 23:58:03 | HiGuy | might actually still have the IA binary |
| 23:58:22 | HiGuy | hahaha yes i do |
| 23:58:32 | HiGuy | "Zap! can only be run through InstantAction.com" mk nvm |
| 23:58:33 | Nothing_Much | fordcars: that's also why I dislike x86 |
| 23:58:35 | Nothing_Much | :( |
| 23:58:36 | raptor | i got the luajit shared lib to compile! |
| 23:58:42 | raptor | now for the static lib.. |
| 23:58:44 | fordcars | Haha Nothing_Much |
| 23:58:52 | Nothing_Much | no other alternatives |
| 23:58:56 | Nothing_Much | outside of ARM |
| 23:58:57 | JeffMB | geeze |
| 23:59:09 | JeffMB | raptor: have you ever done any PPC ASM before? |
| 23:59:10 | fordcars | HiGuy: http://www.garagegames.com/products/download/39 |
| 23:59:17 | fordcars | Zap Demo still available :) |
| 23:59:20 | Nothing_Much | also, PPC would be nice if it was still developed for desktops and not servers |
| 23:59:28 | Nothing_Much | fordcars: that Zap demo doesn't work on Linux at all :( |
| 23:59:30 | HiGuy | ah |
| 23:59:34 | fordcars | Aw :( |
| 23:59:35 | Nothing_Much | but whatever, my .deb still works |