Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
| 00:43:00 | Nothing_Much | woo |
| 00:43:41 | fordcars | woo |
| 01:21:18 | fordcars | Night! |
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| 05:01:15 | | BFLogBot Commit: b077565312 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Flesh out test a bit |
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| 11:21:27 | raptor | good day! |
| 11:25:48 | koda | it’s always good |
| 11:52:15 | raptor | adventures in debian have been taking a toll on my bitfighter coding |
| 11:52:22 | raptor | but we're getting closer... |
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| 12:34:55 | Nothing_Much | Debian-land! |
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| 12:35:44 | kaen | For Debiania, the motherland! |
| 12:36:22 | raptor | where the impression of rules exist, but anarchy ensues! |
| 12:36:38 | kaen | haha |
| 12:41:55 | koda | Debian or Death |
| 12:42:32 | raptor | oh man, ain't that the truth - I think i've been saying that over and over, subconsciously, for the last 2 weeks |
| 13:00:58 | | watusimoto1 has joined |
| 13:01:07 | watusimoto1 | hello |
| 13:01:17 | raptor | hi |
| 13:22:34 | raptor | debian or bust! |
| 13:23:19 | watusimoto1 | I started a major/trivail refactor last night (major = touches many objects; trivial = changes are very unlikely to have any side effects) to try to fix a series of editor crashes. I have grown used to the nice refactoring tools we have for C# at work, that are absent from my home copy of VS (and are probably unavailable for C++). I feel like I'm using a bare text editor by comparison. |
| 13:23:44 | raptor | yes... c#/java IDEs are magic |
| 13:24:23 | watusimoto1 | my java environment was different enough I didn't expect it to work the same. But I'm using the same ide for c# and c++ and therein lies the cogniative issues |
| 13:24:45 | watusimoto1 | maybe I should change my theme or something to at least make them look different |
| 13:25:17 | raptor | eclipse-c++ always seemed (to me) more advanced with editing than vc++ |
| 13:25:24 | raptor | but less advanced with building |
| 13:25:34 | watusimoto1 | I haven' |
| 13:25:45 | watusimoto1 | t tried eclipse with c++ for over 5 years |
| 13:25:49 | watusimoto1 | maybe I should try again |
| 13:26:06 | watusimoto1 | especially as my son wants to do minecraft plugin dev, and will require eclipse to be installed anyway |
| 13:26:26 | Nothing_Much | watusimoto1: try Minetest, it's a FOSS version of Minecraft written in C++ |
| 13:26:35 | watusimoto1 | ha |
| 13:26:42 | Nothing_Much | also in GNU/Linux repositories, I think it has Windows binaries as well |
| 13:26:47 | watusimoto1 | well, he has a book that works with the real deal |
| 13:27:06 | watusimoto1 | and he plays mostly for the social aspects; rarely single player |
| 13:27:21 | Nothing_Much | argh, if only MC wasn't purchased by M$ |
| 13:27:21 | watusimoto1 | network effect and all that |
| 13:27:42 | Nothing_Much | yeah, that sucks when it's proprietary and offers everything and nothing at the same time |
| 13:27:51 | watusimoto1 | I don't see much downside to ms owning mc |
| 13:28:49 | Nothing_Much | it just makes it worse lol |
| 13:30:15 | Nothing_Much | this whole Cloud thing IMO is amazing for GNU/Linux to take over |
| 13:30:41 | Nothing_Much | and hopefully when SteamOS and OpenGL-Next comes out, that should probably get people to switch over |
| 13:30:50 | watusimoto1 | linux pretty much has taken over in some realms |
| 13:30:59 | watusimoto1 | just not on the desktop |
| 13:31:01 | Nothing_Much | Servers have always been GNU/Linux |
| 13:31:04 | watusimoto1 | but mostly everywhere else |
| 13:31:37 | Nothing_Much | yep, websites, development, sorta mobile (Android), OpenStack, cloud, etc |
| 13:31:57 | Nothing_Much | once Ubuntu comes out though, its scopes are most likely its killer feature |
| 13:32:28 | Nothing_Much | even though I think they're just super specific search engines, but Canonical employees say that they're much more than that |
| 13:32:37 | watusimoto1 | there still lots of weird quirkiness with linux desktops that will hinder user adoption |
| 13:32:47 | Nothing_Much | and will probably change the game in the sense that Applications themselves are really limited |
| 13:32:54 | Nothing_Much | watusimoto1: yeah, KDE is a prime example of that |
| 13:33:20 | Nothing_Much | the only reason GNU/Linux has good stuff is because of Linus Torvalds dictating what goes into his kernel |
| 13:33:26 | watusimoto1 | say what you will about windows, but it is (in most ways) a pleasant desktop UI... just so long as you don't use the cmd line |
| 13:34:04 | Nothing_Much | that and Ubuntu is doing its own thing with pure GNU/Linux and not some shoddy proprietary Android ripoff that just uses the Linux kernel for its foundation |
| 13:36:53 | Nothing_Much | to be perfectly honest though, if people *really* want to use it, and if Microsoft Windows becomes it, I wouldn't mind Windows just being a proprietary compatibility layer for ancient software and hardware from the 90s, they can still make money and thrive off of GNU/Linux properly |
| 13:37:30 | Nothing_Much | adopting the features in Windows 10 is an okay first step, hopefully people realize that these technologies have existed since the 90s |
| 13:37:47 | Nothing_Much | or 80s, I think virtual desktops existed back as early as 1985.. |
| 13:39:05 | watusimoto1 | whereas the tech behind linux is... brand new? |
| 13:39:45 | Nothing_Much | yes, and innovative, where Apple and now Microsoft shows them off, except that unlike Apple, I don't think Microsoft claims to have invented them |
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| 13:40:26 | Nothing_Much | granted I didn't see the press conference that MS had, but I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt over Apple |
| 13:44:10 | Nothing_Much | kaen: I hope you have GNU/Linux on your mbp btw |
| 13:46:07 | kaen | nope! |
| 13:46:31 | kaen | I have brew to grab anything linux-y I need quickly though |
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| 13:47:09 | kaen | plus I don't do much work on it, it's mostly for making sure what I write on linux will run on co-worker's ubiquitous mbp's |
| 13:47:48 | kaen | and rare occasions where clients are using stuff that only runs on windows or osx |
| 13:50:51 | kaen | I can tell I'm losing my street cred |
| 13:50:53 | kaen | ... |
| 13:51:18 | kaen | windoze is teh suxxors! |
| 13:51:29 | kaen | </desperate attempt to be cool again> |
| 13:51:30 | Nothing_Much | you have a macbook with OS X on it |
| 13:51:40 | Nothing_Much | you can't redeem yourself unless you have native GNU/Linux |
| 13:51:42 | Nothing_Much | >:C |
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| 14:00:47 | watusimoto1 | Nothing_Much: it is good to have choices! not everyone will choose the way you do, and that's totally cool. If they did, we have a monoculture, which is bad for everyone |
| 14:08:03 | watusimoto1 | in fact, you should be happy that others are willing to expand the polyculture by using inferior systems -- it only helps you! |
| 14:08:10 | watusimoto1 | go windows! |
| 14:10:26 | koda | go osx! |
| 14:11:50 | Nothing_Much | watusimoto1: technically Windows and OS X don't really allow other cultures.. |
| 14:12:28 | Nothing_Much | if it's FOSS then that'd be another story |
| 14:12:42 | Nothing_Much | but since they're both closed down, then there's not collaboration unless you happen to work for the company |
| 14:18:34 | raptor | I hate all OSes equally |
| 14:18:53 | raptor | and some unequally |
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| 14:30:18 | raptor | I think Windows is a nice happy medium, in many respects, between the extremes of OSX and Linux |
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| 14:34:47 | watusimoto | finally! |
| 14:35:28 | watusimoto | Nothing_Much: windows most certainly does "allow other cultures" |
| 14:35:48 | watusimoto | it's a pretty open system in terms of what you can do with it. it's only the source that's closed |
| 14:36:40 | raptor | and speaking of being closed but being open - debian is practically the contrapositive to windows |
| 14:37:13 | Nothing_Much | with Debian, you can make your own thing such as Ubuntu or something |
| 14:37:30 | Nothing_Much | what can you do with Windows? add hacks and stuff that Microsoft would normally forbid, they just don't care |
| 14:38:02 | Nothing_Much | same could be said with Ubuntu, but with Ubuntu, you have the choice to do what you want, or if FOSH existed, you can put anything on that piece of hardware |
| 14:38:07 | raptor | yep... and there in lies the rub - with debian you can do anything... except you can't unless you have technical skill and follow the policies *very* closely |
| 14:38:17 | Nothing_Much | raptor: fork it :3 |
| 14:38:44 | Nothing_Much | can't do dat wit windoze |
| 14:38:49 | Nothing_Much | or os x for that matter |
| 14:39:02 | raptor | but i can build a package without much effort for windows |
| 14:39:13 | raptor | that's a certain degree of freedom that windows has and debian doesn't |
| 14:39:17 | Nothing_Much | can you place it in the Windows store? |
| 14:39:32 | raptor | i'm only talking about building a package |
| 14:39:34 | Nothing_Much | because making an unofficial exe for Windows is the same as making an unofficial deb for Debian |
| 14:39:38 | raptor | there are other facets that are different, yes |
| 14:39:40 | Nothing_Much | oh, building is easier? |
| 14:39:45 | Nothing_Much | yeah, that's what I've heard |
| 14:39:55 | raptor | you betcha |
| 14:39:58 | Nothing_Much | since there's dependencies and stuff like that that need to be considered |
| 14:40:13 | Nothing_Much | although maybe a Click package might be a "sorta" fix that Ubuntu came out with |
| 14:40:16 | Nothing_Much | recently |
| 14:40:32 | Nothing_Much | it doesn't support desktops yet, but it will when 15.04 or 15.10 or 16.04 drops |
| 14:40:46 | raptor | yes.. ubuntu is *not* debian... they've been doing things less extreme |
| 14:41:10 | Nothing_Much | it's the gateway towards FOSS to do what you want |
| 14:41:14 | Nothing_Much | Ubuntu, that is |
| 14:41:19 | raptor | i just wanted to illustrate debian as counterpart to windows not being open... you know... to add fuel to the fire :) |
| 14:41:35 | Nothing_Much | those are easily debunked or easily agreed upon |
| 14:41:49 | Nothing_Much | if you can, you can try getting Bitfighter on the Windows store o.o |
| 14:41:59 | Nothing_Much | since they allow GPL licensed software, unlike OS X |
| 14:42:02 | Nothing_Much | Apple* |
| 14:42:27 | Nothing_Much | whoops, getting attached here, gotta head to work, l8r everyone! |
| 14:42:36 | raptor | heh, later! |
| 14:44:16 | watusimoto | steam is effectively a windows package manager |
| 14:45:33 | watusimoto | actually... what the heck were we talking about? |
| 14:48:29 | raptor | good question |
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| 15:33:15 | fordcars | I hate notepad |
| 15:33:19 | fordcars | :) |
| 15:41:11 | Little_Apple | fordcars: skype |
| 15:51:13 | fordcars | Ey |
| 15:54:02 | raptor | expunge that filth from the OS |
| 15:54:08 | raptor | (notepad) |
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| 16:01:59 | watusimoto | SublimeText!!!!! |
| 16:02:15 | watusimoto | it's holy-water to notepad's deviltry |
| 16:02:41 | watusimoto | now that is one place where Nothing_Much might have a point... notepad??? wtf? |
| 16:06:34 | fordcars | Once I saved in notepad, and I think it normalized the line endings or something, and they weren't supported in notepad, so I was forced to change |
| 16:10:28 | watusimoto | notepad is just an embarassment |
| 16:10:40 | watusimoto | especially to those who use it |
| 16:33:06 | fordcars | Haha yes :P |
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| 16:43:53 | watusimoto | I'm looking at you, fordcars :-) |
| 16:44:04 | fordcars | watusimoto: I don't normally use it :) |
| 16:44:17 | watusimoto | of course you don't ;-) |
| 16:44:33 | fordcars | It's just still my default text editor, so sometimes I use it 'by accident' :P |
| 16:44:48 | raptor | expunge! |
| 16:44:50 | watusimoto | sure, yes. "by accident". Of course. |
| 16:45:03 | watusimoto | oops, I did it again! |
| 16:45:36 | fordcars | Hahaha |
| 16:45:42 | fordcars | Ok, by laziness |
| 16:46:15 | raptor | oh man, apparently if you do anything to notepad.exe, windows restores it |
| 16:46:41 | raptor | probably best to just set it as the default editor for the various file types |
| 16:47:13 | raptor | oh, maybe you can 'turn windows features off' with notepad |
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| 16:51:01 | watusimoto | textpad has a function that will make it totally supplant notepad somehow |
| 16:51:07 | watusimoto | so there are ways |
| 16:52:23 | raptor | do we need to discipline amgine for creating 3 extra accounts and voting on poll 4 times? |
| 16:53:19 | raptor | i'm pretty sure he just did it to highlight the fact the poll was still open after the deadline |
| 16:53:32 | raptor | because sky_lark got busy... |
| 16:54:20 | fordcars | raptor: wait |
| 16:54:36 | raptor | wait what? |
| 16:54:38 | fordcars | He did create those accounts to get badges in September |
| 16:54:49 | raptor | oh? |
| 16:55:02 | fordcars | But he did vote with them, so I guess thats irrevelant :x |
| 16:55:51 | fordcars | I don't think he really did anything bad if it was only in the last voting round, since the votes won't even count |
| 16:56:55 | raptor | it's not like we have many tools with which to discipline... maybe banned from forums for a week or something |
| 16:57:16 | raptor | hmm.. that reminds me, we need more badges |
| 17:00:38 | watusimoto | well, I can no longer use notepad on my win machine |
| 17:00:50 | watusimoto | when I run notepad, sublimetext opens |
| 17:00:54 | watusimoto | voila! |
| 17:01:02 | fordcars | Lucky you |
| 17:01:04 | raptor | how did you do that? |
| 17:01:44 | watusimoto | added this registry key: |
| 17:01:45 | watusimoto | [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Image File Execution Options\notepad.exe] |
| 17:02:06 | watusimoto | Debugger = "c:\\Program Files\\Sublime Text 3\\sublime_text.exe\" -z" |
| 17:02:10 | raptor | ha! |
| 17:02:14 | watusimoto | well, something like that |
| 17:02:20 | watusimoto | no double \\ |
| 17:04:25 | watusimoto | or just use this (which I think does the same thing) |
| 17:04:25 | watusimoto | http://www.binaryfortress.com/NotepadReplacer/ |
| 17:39:35 | raptor | it'll be interesting to see what Greece does in the next few months... |
| 17:40:33 | | JeffMB has joined |
| 17:40:46 | JeffMB | just poping in to say hi everyone, been busy with thingssss |
| 17:40:53 | JeffMB | haven't died...yet :p |
| 17:42:04 | raptor | welcome marble blaster! |
| 17:44:30 | JeffMB | raptor: anything new with BF? |
| 17:53:45 | raptor | we're attempting to get the game into debian |
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| 18:06:28 | JeffMB | woot linux |
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| 23:49:07 | | ChanServ sets mode +o |
| 23:49:11 | raptor | good evening! |
| 23:49:35 | raptor | ok, i've got 4 things left on my debian list |
| 23:50:01 | raptor | one of which is the copyright for the menu music... which I'm willing to drop temporarily. any objections? |
| 23:50:43 | raptor | another is replacing modern-vision TTF font with something - i figure i'll just patch it to use Play-Bold. any objections? |