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December 2012 Contest Discussion

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raptor

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Post Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:18 pm

December 2012 Contest Discussion

Discuss!

Level Name - Gametype
018 - Zone Control
Arena 2 - Bitmatch
Blizzard Control - Bitmatch (levelgen)
Decor - Core
Garfunkle's Claim to Fame - Nexus
Lines - Nexus
New Super BitMatch - Bitmatch
Quad Core - Core
Sands of Time - Retrieve (dungeon, levelgen)
seeker - Rabbit
Space Winter - Retrieve
The Arena - Bitmatch
The Bigs Rooms - Capture the Flag
The Fort - Capture the Flag
Yumm... Crack Muffins - Core

Template for adding thoughts on each level (copy and paste into your post and fill it in)
  Code:

[color=#FFBF00][b]018[/b] - [i]Zone Control[/i][/color]


[color=#FFBF00][b]Arena 2[/b] - [i]Bitmatch[/i][/color]


[color=#FFBF00][b]Blizzard Control[/b] - [i]Bitmatch[/i][/color]


[color=#FFBF00][b]Decor[/b] - [i]Core[/i][/color]


[color=#FFBF00][b]Garfunkle's Claim to Fame[/b] - [i]Nexus[/i][/color]


[color=#FFBF00][b]Lines[/b] - [i]Nexus[/i][/color]


[color=#FFBF00][b]New Super BitMatch[/b] - [i]Bitmatch[/i][/color]


[color=#FFBF00][b]Quad Core[/b] - [i]Core[/i][/color]


[color=#FFBF00][b]Sands of Time[/b] - [i]Retrieve (dungeon)[/i][/color]


[color=#FFBF00][b]seeker[/b] - [i]Rabbit[/i][/color]


[color=#FFBF00][b]Space Winter[/b] - [i]Retrieve[/i][/color]


[color=#FFBF00][b]The Arena[/b] - [i]Bitmatch[/i][/color]


[color=#FFBF00][b]The Bigs Rooms[/b] - [i]Capture the Flag[/i][/color]


[color=#FFBF00][b]The Fort[/b] - [i]Capture the Flag[/i][/color]


[color=#FFBF00][b]Yumm... Crack Muffins[/b] - [i]Core[/i][/color]


 
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Fordcars

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Post Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:38 pm

Re: December 2012 Contest Discussion

018 - Zone Control

Kinda nice. Fun with lots of players, but it is a little simple and dull.

Arena 2 - Bitmatch

Nice and original but still a little dull.

Blizzard Control - Bitmatch

Awesome level gen demonstration with triggers! But the author could of but a little more in the level.

Decor - Core

Really nice level, complex walls, fun to play with many or few people, Original, free of bugs, really neat.

Garfunkle's Claim to Fame - Nexus

Neat level and the perfect size. It is quite empty, though.

Lines - Nexus

This level has nice walls and an original nexus but lacks of obstacles and an original design. Very fun to play with many people.

New Super BitMatch - Bitmatch

Nice design and idea but way to big. You have to play with allot of people in order for this level to be very fun.

Quad Core - Core

Very simple and amusing. I consider it as a fun "mini game" just to relax with a very short but exiting game.

Sands of Time - Retrieve (dungeon)

Nice dungeon with a little level gen.

seeker - Rabbit

A little dull but good looking.

Space Winter - Retrieve

VERY nice level with lots of walls and a great idea. Very fun to engineer in and awesome to play with allot or not allot of people. I had a blast playing this level. The only thing is that there are some places where your ship doesn't fit between walls. Epic.

The Arena - Bitmatch

Nice but a little dull. The author could consider putting more original elements,

The Bigs Rooms - Capture the Flag

Empty but perfect for engineering. Very fun to play with many people. This too is Epic.

The Fort - Capture the Flag

Nice, big, a little empty.

Yumm... Crack Muffins - Core

Original name, fun to play and you can see that the author put allot of effort in making this fun and unique level. Nice demonstration of the numerous uses for engineering teleporters.


So.........drum roll please.........

#3: The Arena, New Super BitMatch and Lines!

#2:The Bigs Rooms, Yumm... Crack Muffins and Sands of Time!

#1: Blizzard Control, Decor and Space Winter!

This review for the Bitfighter 2012 level contest is according to my opinion only.
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bobdaduck

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Post Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:23 am

Re: December 2012 Contest Discussion

Engineer rant incoming.

018 - Zone Control
Wheee open space. Its so very simple, I'm not sure I wouldn't feel guilty voting for it. Its fun though, because personally I enjoy open-space dogfights. All in all I give it a 4/10, but I do rather enjoy it.

Arena 2 - Bitmatch
I didn't get to really play this one with the people, but it seems like a fairly solid bitmatch. Not much special about it, I don't see the emphasis on 018 features though. 7/10

Blizzard Control - Bitmatch
I love this even though it has nothing to do with gameplay. Because as a bitmatch it isn't all that great xD Maybe as a hold the flag, so that you control the center and also control the tides, that could be pretty cool. But anyway, however they got it to work, its pretty fun. I recommend armor+sensor. 2/10 gameplay, 9/10 for fun and novelty.

Decor - Core
Everyone gonna say this level is too confusing. I didn't think it was that bad, though certainly it isn't exactly designed with gameplay in mind. I mean, come on, it has engineer in it. The outer core has too much health and why on earth the turrets and forcefields regenerate is beyond me. Game consists of killing the inner core and then defending yours for ten minutes, while ignoring the outer core. Also, isolated compartments you have to teleport to are just bad news except in hunters. 3/10

Garfunkle's Claim to Fame - Nexus
A pretty solid nexus, but... Its a team nexus. I can't say I'm a fan of that. And the spawns being isolated means you can suicide to give your team tons of flags and no one can do anything about it. The double teleporters to get to the nexus keep cloak from being a super strategy here, but they also seem awkward to use and are super easy to mine trap. 7/10

Lines - Nexus
This is a fun nexus. I like the aesthetics. Its a little bottlenecky so everyone is just dying all the time but it has just enough space and nooks and crannies to make it exciting. 8/10

New Super BitMatch - Bitmatch
ITS SO STUPID HUGE. Everyone just goes to the teleporters and fights there because the rest of the map is pointless. There's a lot of unnecessary space, and teleporters are still stupidly easy to mine trap. It has fairly good gameplay though, in the parts people play in. 5/10.

Quad Core - Core
Too short, too... What is this gameplay? Everyone destroys their cores and whoever has the slowest enemies wins? 2/10

Sands of Time - Retrieve (dungeon)
Arg, a dungeon. At least its not a stupid emperors revenge. (Dungeon = puzzles and challenges, emperors revenge = turrets, and turrets.) There's a lot of nifty stuff in this map, though I feel like dungeons have so little replay value, once people solve something there's not much more to it. 6/10 for effort though.

seeker - Rabbit
A... Good effort? I guess? See comment about teleport to seperate areas of the map. Don't do that. In a rabbit especially its terrible. And its big so the C map is weird and useless, and there's no cover, and why does this map have engineer. 3/10

Space Winter - Retrieve
The snowstars are a nice effect. Its got a few too many flags for a retrieve, leading to a lot of flag trading if both teams are serious. Except that engineer comes in and ruins everything, and suddenly the game is decided by which team has the most engineers. -1 for engineer, 6/10

The Arena - Bitmatch
Teleporters are slightly counterintuitive, though that might actually be a bit nice. Solid level, I don't see the 018, yada yada see arena 2 review.

The Bigs Rooms - Capture the Flag
The base design is amazing. You can shoot the person trying to get the flag from outside the flag chamber, and the speedzones for a gettaway, and... ...And then this huge middle space, and engineer, and I hate this map forever. 4/10

The Fort - Capture the Flag
I'm not sure about this one. I try to imagine if it would play well without engineer, and I think it would if another passage to the flag was added. I can't tell though, because teleporters and turrets and forcefields and camping and turrets and forcefields. 4/10

Yumm... Crack Muffins - Core
What is this I don't even.

No seriously, what is this.

I guess.. red has an advantage? It all seems so pointless.. It looks nice but I can't play in this map. 3/10.
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Quartz

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Post Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:30 pm

Re: December 2012 Contest Discussion

I'll edit this as I play more of them ...

018 - Zone Control

Arena 2 - Bitmatch
Just kinda there. Nothing particularly wrong with it, certainly nothing bad either. Not too open, not too bottleneck. 7/10

Blizzard Control - Bitmatch
Great concept, decent execution, but a glaringly obvious lack of care in actually developing the level. This could be fantastic with some work, but instead it is just showing off a fancy script. Next time, spend more time with the level itself after creating such an awesome script. Definitely change the gametype too. 4/10

Decor - Core
I like it; the layout is very unique. but that outside room is ridiculous ... the turrets and projectors really shouldn't be regenerating, and the core should be a lot less powerful. Too many teleporters as well. It is initially confusing, but soon enough makes sense. It's kind of unintuitive but not horribly so. I've had fun with this map, but only because of some very oblivious defenders. Against real opposition, no one even gets close to winning. 5/10

Garfunkle's Claim to Fame - Nexus
This one is excellent. The only thing wrong is flag dispensers, as it were. Hopefully one day that exploit can be amended. Really neat map, and the whole layered approach is fantastic for Hunters. I did it once and people loved it, and this map is 20x better than mine, so ... awesome! I think the teleporter rooms with the turrets in them are lame though, could definitely use some more imagination. Other than that, I love this map. 9/10

Lines - Nexus
A very frustrating map. Interesting graphical approach. I like the small bottlenecks were people can hide *cough* sam686 *cough* to regain their energy before rejoining the fray. This makes collecting flags and KEEPING them not entirely impossible; which is good because this is a slaughterfest of a map. And slaughterfest maps make me very angry. Not fun. 5/10

New Super BitMatch - Bitmatch
Really should've just kept to the main, biggest area and never made the others. I really like that area but everyone just moves over to the left-side small teleport rooms. The main, biggest area inspires a lot of interesting tactics. But I'm a big fan of bottleneck. Could be awesome but kinda screws it up. 6/10

Quad Core - Core
This map is completely moronic. Do I really have to explain myself? It's too small, the spawn system is insanely stupid, zapping people gives the person you just killed a huge advantage, it's random, sporadic, chaotic with absolutely no order whatsoever ... it's just bad. The only redeeming quality of this map is that it's over within a minute, so you only have to suppress the urge to shoot yourself for a short time. 1/10

Sands of Time - Retrieve (dungeon)
I'm a sucker for dungeons. This one made clever use of levelgens and the like. The only thing wrong with this map is that people are douches and screw you over constantly ... but that's not the map editor's fault. Regardless, efforts should be made by the dungeon creator to minimize such occasions. I'm used to one moment like that per map, this one had probably five. 8/10

seeker - Rabbit
This is terrible for many reasons.
Cons: Teleporters in Rabbit - Historically not awesome.
Bad level design. Was anyone even looking for playability or just aesthetics?
These aesthetics aren't even that good.
C map is retarded.
Pros: Score to win is 80. I like that.
2/10

Space Winter - Retrieve
5 flags is too damn much ... too many flag trade backs if people are serious. And actually this map would probably be better with very minimal engineering. 4 resource items TOPS would be great. I like bottleneck. The usage of FlagSpawns is unnecessary and kind of dumb/illogical. Anyway pretty fun. 7/10

The Arena - Bitmatch


The Bigs Rooms - Capture the Flag


The Fort - Capture the Flag


Yumm... Crack Muffins - Core
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sky_lark

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Post Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:48 pm

Re: December 2012 Contest Discussion

Here are my thoughts. I tried to be constructive with each level and provide suggestions for how to make each better.

Also, I'd really like to see more users post reviews. I submitted a level and would love to hear more comments on it and how I can make it better.

CORE

Yumm... Crack Muffins
Looks like the map maker fell victim to lack of testing. This is a cool map, and it looks like it took a lot of work, but it's not inherently obvious what people are supposed to do (despite the text objects). I think he/she was trying to require teleporters to be engineered in such a way that teammates could invade the base. Actually, I really like this idea of requiring teleporters, but it'd be better maybe for a tournament, where each team knew what they were doing ahead of time.

Suggestions:
- Bases need stronger defenses and more room to maneuver and defend in.
- Asymmetry is a nice touch but could be tweaked a bit to provide less of a bias to red.
- While I think engineering teleporters should be the primary choice of players, you should implement an alternate route. Add in obstacles to make it less desirable than engineering teleporters.

Decor
I really like the concept of moving around the bases to invade, and the engineered teleporters play out nicely. The wall design is a nice touch, and the portals are pretty straightforward, which is usually a worry with close-in-location portals. The mini-bases were a tad too small but had smart defense design. I felt like the main bases had too few defenses and they could use more resources. Finally, while I'm not normally a fan of bottlenecked paths, I thought the path to the bases was a really smart choice to keep tight; it requires the invaders to have sufficient energy and numbers to get in.

Suggestions:
- This map felt unfinished to me. See if you can fill in some of the empty space where the Bitfighter logos are and add in more spawning locations and areas to battle in. You don't need more cores but I would like to see at least another route to get to the enemy base that didn't have to go through enemy ships and asteroids.
- Balance the bases. Make the mini-base a little larger, and provide a couple of minimal defenses to the larger base. The large base was also really difficult to defend since after the enemy came down the chute they were right next to the core, leaving little time for defenders to react and kill invaders. See if you can add some kind of "widening" system to the entrance to the base so it opens gradually instead of narrow-then-immediately-wide.
- Needs more resource items for each base. Two resource items are pretty much guaranteed to be dedicated to engineering teleports so there's little possibility of making defenses.

Quad Core
This is an ok map. I like the concept and visually it's simple and elegant. But, the cores require way too little hitpoints to be damaged. This pretty much breaks the level, because nobody wants to sit around repairing turrets or defending their cores. They'll just try to shoot cores as fast as possible. There was even a moment when I worked together with another player on another team because it was more efficient.

Suggestions:
- Add more hitpoints to the cores, and give them defenses. You can keep the level design simplistic by just extending the tunnels to get to the cores, so players have an easier chance defending.
- Turrets should be appropriately placed. There's little incentive to repair a turret in the middle of the pathway. Put it near a core so it can do some good.
- Consider lowering the number of teams to 3. This will require a bit of creativity to design, but I could it could be beneficial. You're less likely to run into an enemy that you feel fine working with temporarily.

BITMATCH

Arena 2
I didn't play-test this one much, but it looks fine. I'd say remove a couple of the first aid kits though, since it's a small map only one or two kits are needed. Clean map overall.

Blizzard Control
Brilliant idea. This is the kind of inspiration people will need to begin learning how to use levelgen. I can't say it was much fun getting knocked all over the place, but I still enjoyed the craziness of it all. This seemed to be more of a novelty map than a competitive map, but that's fine considering this is a level design contest that doesn't require maps to be played in a certain venue. The only suggestion I can offer is seeing if you can figure out how to make the blizzard control be on a time loop. While it's neat that players can control the blizzard, I think it would be much more competitive and fun if there were short bursts of stillness timed carefully. Constantly being knocked around is amusing for the first minute, but afterwards it just becomes tiresome.

New Super BitMatch
Good, simple map. Design is fun and clever, and I love how each arena is slightly larger in size and resources. I had a blast just flying around in relative and watching as people tried to chase me… the fact that I could navigate smoothly despite there being a lot of sharp corners is a good thing.

Suggestions:
- When I play-tested this, something felt off. It just didn't have the same enjoyment as many other maps did. It is a fine map and we had enough people to balance out the excess room… then I realized it: This map needs to be nexus. Seriously, nexus is perfect for this kind of maze-like navigation. There needs to be a reason for people to come to a mutual location and frantically try to get to the nexus by snaking themselves through the barriers. Without that common goal, I had no reason to commit to a battle with a player if I was losing; I could just fly away and hide or seek out another player.
- Fewer teleports could also make battling a bit more interesting. Granted, there's teleport camping, but on the other hand that discourages people to constantly switch between arenas.

The Arena
Can't say I'm too fond of this one. Visually it could use some work, and gameplay-wise there's not much reason to stray into the corners. I think even as a plain arena map it could be improved.

Suggestions:
- Add more rooms, and provide incentive to them. Put in spawn points so people populate them naturally and put a first aid kit so people stay.
- Increase the distance between teleports. It's too easy to go through one teleporter and in another to escape.
- Work on the aesthetics. Change up wall thickness and try to make it look less blocky by adding in more weird angled walls and curves and the like.

NEXUS

Garfunkle's Claim to Fame
Neat map! Amusing name, good choice of colors. Level looks and plays nice. Spawning on top of barriers felt smooth and smart. I like that the rooms are small and next to the spawn area. Most importantly, this map "just worked." It played cleanly and properly, like nexus maps should. Most nexus maps are a bunch of arenas linked by teleporters, so I enjoyed seeing a twist on that concept.

Suggestions:
- See if you can move the teleporter endpoints. Too many times I would go through the teleporter only to be knocked off by a player in the teleporter endpoint because it was right next to the edge.
- Also, see if you can "stretch" the map out by decreasing the spawn area and distancing the nexuses. It seemed to be too easy to stand next to the edge of a barrier with a bunch of flags and fly off when an enemy comes through, then quickly move into the next teleporter. There should be more combat and less room for fleeing.

Lines
I didn't get a chance to play-test this one, so I won't comment.

RETRIEVE

Sands of Time
I too am a sucker for dungeons, and this is a great map. For what it's worth, I was that guy who kept screwing with everyone by placing stupid teleporters. ;) But hey, I didn't cause too much damage. I hope.

I don't have many suggestions for it, because it's hard to criticize a dungeon map overall and not on individual challenges (although that's not a bad way to review maps either). It took us a reasonable amount of time to accomplish and people seemed to be having fun, so props to you.

Space Winter
This is a great, fun map. The snow effects are beautiful and I love that they're scattered over both empty space and the walls. The rough, jagged rocks in the middle make for frantic and unique combat. Base design is a bit ugly but fantastically designed. I have no complaints there except for a suggestion to add in another route to the bases, but one could argue that engineering teleporters is the additional route. While the main arena is crowded, it's not bottlenecked because there are so many places to go and get around an enemy. Arena size is relatively small though so people aren't just going to fly into nothingness. While there are a lot of flags, this doesn't seem to me as a bad thing. It reminds me of old zap maps and I think it's a nice touch.

Suggestions:
- Close quarters combat isn't for everyone. See if you can add in an open space for battling inside of the main arena. It could be large and in the middle, or thin with one on each side. I think these spaces would provide a nice break from the crowdedness and accommodate more players with varying interests.

CTF

The Bigs Rooms
This was a fun map when we played it at the party. Nothing fancy but the engineer items provided lots of hilarity with placing random teleporters and turrets. There actually was a strategy involved… you could place the laserbeams to block corridors for flag-runners to escape in.

However, I wonder about replayability... we had a lot of people who loved screwing around with engineer. As an actual competitive map or with a different group of people I could see it not being fun.

Suggestions:
- Spice it up. Add more routes, a border design, or asymmetrical bases. Give people with different tastes a reason to like it more.
- Base design needs tweaking so people can't camp with the flag inside.
- There were more resourceitems than necessary. As fun as it was to place a ton of random teleporters, I think fewer would've made for a fun, but less chaotic, experience.

The Fort
This map shares my same sentiments as The Bigs Room. A few too many resource items and poor base design. Other than that, the map is fun. I think I even like it more than The Bigs Room because it feels more complete and polished.

ZONE CONTROL

018
Simple, straightforward map. The boosters are staggered intelligently, so that players are not obligated to continue zooming around. There are lots of zones, which means flag-runners will definitely need bodyguards to ensure a victory, yet the map is small enough that they can be found by practically any player. This too felt like a novelty map, though.

Suggestions:
- While I like the simplicity of it all, I wonder if adding more objects could be a good thing. Right now, there's no way for player movements to be predicted. While that's good for the flag-runner, it's quite difficult for teammates to block properly if they have no idea where their flag-runner is going to go. There's no route that's more efficient than another. Defense for the other team is also a nightmare, because it relies almost exclusively on skill than strategy.
- Therefore, I would suggest to the mapmaker that they consider adding in more objects. A first aid kit on each end as a safe haven. An asteroid depot near the corner for offense to shake off an enemy. Maybe even go big and add in resources to be engineered. Something, to add in more strategy so that the newbies can still have a shot.
- Also, consider adding a more artistic border. The 018's design looks really good. Don't taint it with an ugly border. ;)

RABBIT

seeker
I like the aesthetic design. Ships look pretty on commander's view despite having a simple set-up. I love the boosters showing flight path. Level design itself isn't too bad either to move from arena to arena.

Suggestions:
- I'd recommend modifying the teleporters so they cycle through the arenas in a determined fashion. This will make the rabbit's life harder which is a good thing. It's bad for nexus or bitmatch but for rabbit we want to give the rabbit lower odds so that they cannot clinch the victory easily.
- Also, since the arenas are so small have only one teleporter. This will naturally create a traffic jam of people trying to get through, but it's not a big deal since there is more than just two arenas.
- Finally, there are way too many first aid kits. I get that you're trying to let the rabbit have an advantage but this is poor thinking… it's the rabbit who needs to have the disadvantage so everyone has greater opportunities to pick up the flag regardless of their skill levels.
- Testitems I think are fine but you could consider replacing them with resourceitems; given the small size of arenas resourceitems might play out better.
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sam686

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Post Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:05 am

Re: December 2012 Contest Discussion

018 - Zone Control
Image

Arena 2 - Bitmatch
Image

Blizzard Control - Bitmatch
Image

Decor - Core
Image

Garfunkle's Claim to Fame - Nexus
Image

Lines - Nexus
Image

New Super BitMatch - Bitmatch
Image

Quad Core - Core
Image

Sands of Time - Retrieve (dungeon)
Image

seeker - Rabbit
Image

Space Winter - Retrieve
Image

The Arena - Bitmatch
Image

The Bigs Rooms - Capture the Flag
Image

The Fort - Capture the Flag
Image

Yumm... Crack Muffins - Core
Image
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bobdaduck

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Post Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:24 am

Re: December 2012 Contest Discussion

Those... Were quite the reviews. I'm not sure they're super helpful but they're graphical so who cares! Wheeeeee
Little_Apple wrote:DnD: the REAL bitfighter levelgen documentation

Santiago ZAP wrote:bob doesn't make new maps, he makes new gamemodes
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sky_lark

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Post Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:06 pm

Re: December 2012 Contest Discussion

@sam That was a cool way of reviewing, but just to clarify -- were you explaining (for the sake of other users) or criticizing? While you did bring up good points, some of the pictures looked like you were nitpicking over minor details.
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sam686

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Post Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:41 pm

Re: December 2012 Contest Discussion

sky_lark wrote:That was a cool way of reviewing, but just to clarify -- were you explaining (for the sake of other users) or criticizing?

Not sure... mostly both...

I sometimes forget the level name. Pictures are easier to see the level itself. I drew several things for showing some information and problem such as unbalanced teams.

I have seen some people go "TL, DR" (too long, didn't read) on some wall of text, so I decided to use pictures and graphics.
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watusimoto

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Post Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:20 am

Re: December 2012 Contest Discussion

I think the pics were great!
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raptor

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Post Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:55 pm

Re: December 2012 Contest Discussion

As a bonus, a few of the maps have been updated/changed by their authors. This will not affect final voting.
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Fordcars

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Post Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:50 pm

Re: December 2012 Contest Discussion

I totally Tl, DR :D
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