Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:01 pm
Circles
Since this has become a public matter, I figured it's time to discuss Circles, their origins, and the reasons behind their removal in 019.
I'll begin by taking full responsibility for their removal. I had support from the other devs, but ultimately it was me who took the initiative to remove them from the codebase. As such, if you have any resentment in this matter, it only makes sense for you to direct it at me rather than the devteam as a whole.
I've painstakingly scoured the IRC logs for relevant discussions regarding circles. Story time...
My first encounter with circles (while experimenting with making a new game mode):
As you can see, even as long ago as 2012, Circles were never meant to for human consumption. Let's continue, with bobdaduck's first use of the word "circle" on IRC:
So, bobdaduck on his first encounter is told twice that Circles are an experiment, but let's continue:
Too true, raptor, too true. In spite of these warnings, and being told in no uncertain terms that these items are off limits, unsupported, experimental, and generally should not be used, bobdaduck perpetuates the knowledge of circles:
So that makes bobdaduck, Quartz, amgine, and Lamp at the very least who know of Circles and how to make them, just two and a half months after bob's first encounter. Clearly things are getting out of hand. At this point, we begin serious discussion of taking action:
Two fairly important milestones were reached in the above discussion. First, a possible improvement was suggested by watusimoto, and declined by bobdaduck. In light of that, consensus was reached by the entire active devteam that they should be disabled/removed/"nuked from orbit".
And so, a few months later, I removed them. It was a dull August afternoon, and I had scrolled past their useless code one too many times, seen one too many levels that used them, and given levelmakers one too many warnings. I nuked them, along with worm (which always crashes 018a, because they weren't polished, because they were experiments, just like circles).
Here is bobdaduck's first interaction with me after he learned that I removed circles. I helped him fix one of his lua scripts (a free service we provide in the IRC channel to anyone interested in learning).
So there you have it. The rise and fall of circles. Now you know the story.
I can understand if there is dissatisfaction with this choice, but I stand by my decision. I would be happy to address your concerns, but I think it's fair to ask that you express your feelings in a civil manner, and remember that everyone here is a volunteer.
I'll begin by taking full responsibility for their removal. I had support from the other devs, but ultimately it was me who took the initiative to remove them from the codebase. As such, if you have any resentment in this matter, it only makes sense for you to direct it at me rather than the devteam as a whole.
I've painstakingly scoured the IRC logs for relevant discussions regarding circles. Story time...
My first encounter with circles (while experimenting with making a new game mode):
- Code:
12/30/12
[1:07:03] <raptor> have you seen the Circle object?
[1:07:11] <raptor> and CircleSpawn
[1:07:17] <kaen> lol no
[1:07:19] <raptor> i think those are still lying aroun
[1:07:28] <kaen> I'll check them out
[1:07:30] <raptor> because they have that behavior
[1:07:40] <kaen> oh wow that's convenient.
[1:07:54] <raptor> watusimoto wanting something that would swarm you....
[1:08:13] <raptor> but we started other ideas before that was polished enough for the game
[1:08:17] <raptor> but it's there
[1:08:26] <kaen> huh. well that simplifies things a lot I think
[1:09:06] <kaen> I am once again enlightened by raptor, sage keeper of bitfighter
[1:10:07] <raptor> well.. uh, more like guardian of the dirty laundry
[1:10:19] <kaen> lol
[1:10:30] <raptor> or junkyard.. yeah junkard
...
[1:15:12] <raptor> oh, before you go further, i am obligated to say: Circle does not exist
[1:15:22] * raptor washes his hands
[1:15:27] <raptor> ok that's out of the way..
[1:15:44] <kaen> the Circle class?
[1:15:55] <raptor> yes
[1:16:17] <kaen> it's declared and implemented in moveObject afaict
[1:16:34] <kaen> and I have it in my gdb symbols
[1:16:40] <raptor> yes yes, it was tongue-in-cheek...
[1:16:45] <kaen> oh lol
[1:16:47] <raptor> because we don't want people to start adding them to levels
[1:16:55] <kaen> oooooooh
As you can see, even as long ago as 2012, Circles were never meant to for human consumption. Let's continue, with bobdaduck's first use of the word "circle" on IRC:
So, bobdaduck on his first encounter is told twice that Circles are an experiment, but let's continue:
- Code:
02/25/13
[0:09:15] <bobdaduck> So why and when will circles crash people?
[0:10:11] <raptor> Circles do not exist!
...
[0:11:30] <raptor> please don't bring to light experimental stuff like this - it may have drastic consequences - like having to deal with more peoples questions :)
[0:11:49] <kaen> we should just not check in experiments :x
[0:12:14] <bobdaduck> lol
[0:12:30] <kaen> but really bobdaduck
[0:12:32] <bobdaduck> Okay
[0:12:35] <kaen> pleeeeaaase
...
[0:12:56] <raptor> it may disappear completely
[0:13:00] <raptor> removed from code
[0:13:13] <raptor> it's watusimoto's experiment and I'm not sure he'll ever get back to it..
[0:14:09] <bobdaduck> What about the other one that's named after that thing that infects computers and lives in dirt?
[0:14:49] <raptor> Worm? that for sure crashes things good
[0:15:04] <raptor> kaen: i was thinking, maybe we should let Worm and Circle crash...
[0:15:07] <bobdaduck> Who's experiment was it?
[0:15:09] <raptor> just to keep people away
...
[0:17:30] <raptor> because, with our audience, if we say things like "use of this is completely unsupported, may disappear, and/or may have drastic consequences like crash your game", they fall on deaf ears
Too true, raptor, too true. In spite of these warnings, and being told in no uncertain terms that these items are off limits, unsupported, experimental, and generally should not be used, bobdaduck perpetuates the knowledge of circles:
- Code:
04/04/2013
[22:07:05] <bobdaduck> I'm trying to make a plugin that adds the hidden items (ship energyItem slipzone)
[22:07:26] <Quartzy> and circle
[22:07:27] <Quartzy> lol
[22:07:45] <bobdaduck> shh
[22:08:00] <raptor> NO CIRCLE
[22:08:02] <raptor> man
[22:08:05] <raptor> bobdaduck!
[22:08:14] <Quartzy> hahaha
[22:08:20] <Quartzy> Dude raptor everyone already knows about them.
[22:08:34] <Quartzy> Lamp found them so then, yeah.
[22:08:36] <raptor> that measn we need to kill them quickly
[22:08:40] <raptor> oh great
[22:08:41] <bobdaduck> Its okay though I think we convinced lamp and amgine that it crashes the game
[22:08:49] <Quartzy> Yeah we did.
[22:08:50] <Quartzy> Which is pretty much true...
[22:08:58] <Quartzy> It rapes servers, anyway.
So that makes bobdaduck, Quartz, amgine, and Lamp at the very least who know of Circles and how to make them, just two and a half months after bob's first encounter. Clearly things are getting out of hand. At this point, we begin serious discussion of taking action:
- Code:
Later that day...
[22:34:01] <raptor> Watusimoto_: I think we should remove Circle/CircleSpawn for good, unless you can think of a reason to keep them around
[22:34:28] <bobdaduck> Because bobdaduck likes them
[22:34:33] <Watusimoto_> I can't think of a reason, unless we think of a way to make them unlame
[22:34:34] <bobdaduck> And uses them in at least one legitimate level
[22:34:51] <raptor> Watusimoto_: I think Circles have a fundamental flaw
[22:34:56] <raptor> network heavy
[22:34:58] <Watusimoto_> which one?
[22:35:00] <Watusimoto_> yes
[22:35:18] <Watusimoto_> what if they dodged and killed you when they touched you?
[22:35:23] <bobdaduck> I use them in one serious level, so don't remove them pls
[22:35:51] <Watusimoto_> then you could use only a few of them
[22:36:07] <bobdaduck> if they dodged and killed you then they're just a sentient asteroid and asteroids aren't good for gameplay anyway.
...
[22:36:55] <raptor> bobdaduck: you were expressly told NOT to use them in *anything*
[22:37:20] <Watusimoto_> well, we can start by removing the spawn
...
[22:37:54] <Watusimoto_> or hell, if it's only one level that breaks, we can kill it altogether
...
[22:42:33] <raptor> I'm thinking we need to nuke Circles before they get out of hand, I'll deal with bobdaduck's fury
[22:42:38] <raptor> :)
[22:42:44] <bobdaduck> .....
[22:42:44] <Watusimoto_> go for it!
[22:42:58] <Watusimoto_> nuke em from orbit...
Two fairly important milestones were reached in the above discussion. First, a possible improvement was suggested by watusimoto, and declined by bobdaduck. In light of that, consensus was reached by the entire active devteam that they should be disabled/removed/"nuked from orbit".
And so, a few months later, I removed them. It was a dull August afternoon, and I had scrolled past their useless code one too many times, seen one too many levels that used them, and given levelmakers one too many warnings. I nuked them, along with worm (which always crashes 018a, because they weren't polished, because they were experiments, just like circles).
Here is bobdaduck's first interaction with me after he learned that I removed circles. I helped him fix one of his lua scripts (a free service we provide in the IRC channel to anyone interested in learning).
So there you have it. The rise and fall of circles. Now you know the story.
I can understand if there is dissatisfaction with this choice, but I stand by my decision. I would be happy to address your concerns, but I think it's fair to ask that you express your feelings in a civil manner, and remember that everyone here is a volunteer.
bobdaduck wrote:Next, the moon!
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