Balance changes for 019

[raptor]

Next release is going to be 019 (no timeline) and that means balance changes!

I want to ask the community for your balance change ideas. I know there have been several threads on the subject already that I will be referencing.

However, here I'd like everyone to list their top 3 good ideas for balance changes.

Note that due to the nature of these types of changes, balanceis the key and can be really hard to accomplish. I suggest changes be slight at first, and as specific as possible.

As an example, here are some changes I'm thinking:

1. Reduce phaser damage (take 6 shots to kill instead of 5)
2. Increase shield energy consumption (maybe by 1.5x) OR hits damage shields faster somehow
3. Increase bouncer distance when it bounces AND/OR reduce energy consumption AND/OR self-damage

Go!

[bobdaduck]

Funnest:
1. Suns
2. Replace bouncer with a railgun (long reload, single shot, extreme speed, bounces off walls, pierces through multiple ships, long range.)
3. Add double-tap option to repair, like boost.

Most practical:
1. Increase shield energy cost
2. Make it so cloakers no longer cover stars
3. Increase burst energy cost

[Little_Apple]

Buff repair. PLEASE.
2 and 3 are also buff repair.

[raptor]

Little_Apple, can you be more specific? Also, you have 2 other ideas to fill...

For everyone, I forgot to mention that one balance change made already was making it so turrets don't harm themselves or other team turrets with their shots. So you don't have to mention how stupid turrets are right now.

Back to the topic at hand.. top 3 ideas!

[bobdaduck]

Buff repair. PLEASE.
2 and 3 are also buff repair.

Adding a double tap option to repair would be a buff.

[Quartz]

1. Reduce phaser damage (take 6 shots to kill instead of 5)
2. Hits damage shields faster somehow

I like these very much.

1. Get rid of Armor's movement penalty, make Armor either entirely eliminate knock-back or greatly resist it. Far more tank-y, plus it fills a niche.
2. Add double-tap function to Repair.
3. When equipped with the Engineer module, disable fast energy regen (from standing still).*

*It's worth noting that currently, if you are standing still while building something with Engineer, when you build something it somehow doesn't count as "doing something" so you immediately get that quick regen. Clearly an oversight. It is very important that this is fixed since it is an oversight. My idea is a bit more extreme, so.

Also, a vampiric module would be pretty neat. Like an anti-repair, same range, multiple beams and all, so it slowly drains the energy out of players, turrets, projectors and possibly engineered teleports. Make it bypass shields. It would be very cool.

2. Replace bouncer with a railgun (long reload, single shot, extreme speed, bounces off walls, pierces through multiple ships, long range.)

This is basically what Bouncer is used for as is anyway. I mean, it serves its intended purpose occasionally in a few chokepoints here and there, but otherwise it's used for sniping. Bouncer was intended to make hell for people who are hiding in hallways, but Burst just does it better.

2. Make it so cloakers no longer cover stars
3. Increase burst energy cost

These are both excellent. Cloak is very obvious to the trained eye, which is a bad thing. And Burst is far too easy to spam for victory, 'nuff said.

1.reduce but not remove armor penalty.

2. rail gun as a new weapon would be cool actually.

3.increase bouncer damage.

4 increase triple spread and distance but remove power.

5. disallow team killing mines (#1 priority for me please fix it.)

[raptor]

THREE

Please narrow your list to your top 3

2. Replace bouncer with a railgun (long reload, single shot, extreme speed, bounces off walls, pierces through multiple ships, long range.)

I would say, add railgun.

[Santiago ZAP]

mah top 3 are in red
1 - Incrase time of bouncers staying to 0.25 moar seconds
2 - Repairing cores is x3 faster
3 - Railgun? wut? imma add a suggestion 'ere, short so no TLDR

Make railgun reload 3 seconds
Make it affect 90 from close range, bounced 100
It stays alive as long as a bouncer
DONT REPLACE BOUNZER

4 - Something like, see what engineered portals your team did and your enemy did too
5 - See stats via game
6 - Double tapping repair will make x2 faster repairing that doesnt repair you, it repairs others x2 as speed, or place a health item only your team can use, and other can zap, for 90% energy? idk
7 - Repair uses 10% less energy or repairs 10% faster
8 - Armor's ressistance is kinda incrased 10%?
9 - Organize your badges!
10 - New badges

mah top 3 are in red
1 - Incrase time of bouncers staying to 0.25 moar seconds
2 - Repairing cores is x3 faster
3 - Railgun? wut? imma add a suggestion 'ere, short so no TLDR

Make railgun reload 3 seconds
Make it affect 90 from close range, bounced 100
It stays alive as long as a bouncer
DONT REPLACE BOUNZER

4 - Something like, see what engineered portals your team did and your enemy did too
5 - See stats via game
6 - Double tapping repair will make x2 faster repairing that doesnt repair you, it repairs others x2 as speed, or place a health item only your team can use, and other can zap, for 90% energy? idk
7 - Repair uses 10% less energy or repairs 10% faster
8 - Armor's ressistance is kinda incrased 10%?
9 - Organize your badges!
10 - New badges

railgun and repair== awesome

[Santiago ZAP]

What repair? The less energy, high effiiency, extra core efficiency, double tapping or repair others x2?

double tap
But we have to keep bouncer

[Santiago ZAP]

Yeah, its good in Maze maps, closed or some with lots of walls

[kaen]

Persuant to this thread I suggest the following changes:

• Nerf phaser damage. I think 75% of its current damage is a good starting point.
• Reduce Triple spread and increase its lifetime (why would you bring a shotgun into space?)
• Increase damage to shield (rewarding skill is very important)
• Reduce bouncer energy consumption
• Increase seeker firing rate and decrease energy consumption
• Make Bursts explode on a direct hit (we should reward players for good aim, not punish them)

I honestly have no idea how to balance the modules, but these weapon-related suggestions are based on math.

[Quartz]

• Increase damage to shield (rewarding skill is very important)
• Make Bursts explode on a direct hit (we should reward players for good aim, not punish them)

I really dig both of these.

• Increase damage to shield (rewarding skill is very important)
• Make Bursts explode on a direct hit (we should reward players for good aim, not punish them)

I really dig both of these.

I really dig both of these.

[Skybax]

bobdaduck's post is the best. I agree with his 100%.

how about teles can be placed inside of walls if there is room? (you cant currently (i think)

[Little_Apple]

how about teles can be placed inside of walls if there is room? (you cant currently (i think)

Sorry to dissapoint you... But this is a horrible idea.

Why can't you? Can't you just stick a teleporter on top of the wall?

1. you cant currently and being able to place tele inside of wall is limited if your already on the all and if there's x amount of space around the tel this will help prevent people from placing teles in wall when. there on open space.

sky he is talking about engineer

Oh, gotcha. Yeah, I can't foresee any problems with placing an input teleporter on walls. Although, an output could lead to unnecessary exploits.

FYI this isn't really a balance change, but good suggestion nonetheless.

Probably not output since it would be way to easy to get out of the map

[Santiago ZAP]

how about teles can be placed inside of walls if there is room? (you cant currently (i think)

Finding this useless :/

Ahh yes, good point. That'd be super evil to use on enemies, haha.

yes in my idea you can place a out tele on the map but only if you can already are on wall im saying you shouldn't be able to place one on a wall from a open space. cause currently you can only place teles on open spaces. this is to make the tele more useless as a weapon so it is a balance change as it hardly usefull now.

[kaen]

Making ways for players to enter walls is a level design error IMHO. One major problem is that a player can stick his "nose" out of the wall, fire at enemies, and retreat into the wall to avoid all chance of counter attack (with repeating weapons). I'm against adding anything that makes it enticing to do so.

Also, I would say that the ability to create a teleport from your base directly into the enemy's base is very useful. Many smackdowns have been laid upon me by a well-engineered teleporter.

I would like to point out kaen that you would only be able to place the tel in and out portals if you can get on the wall in the first place so you cant place one from open space so you wouldn't be giving the opponent a advantage of them being able to create a tele onto solid then destroying it thus camping.

exmaple table

solid to solid = true

solid to open = true

open to solid = false

open to open = true

[Quartz]

Making ways for players to enter walls is a level design error IMHO. One major problem is that a player can stick his "nose" out of the wall, fire at enemies, and retreat into the wall to avoid all chance of counter attack (with repeating weapons). I'm against adding anything that makes it enticing to do so.

Also, I would say that the ability to create a teleport from your base directly into the enemy's base is very useful. Many smackdowns have been laid upon me by a well-engineered teleporter.

Well said on both.

appertnly the point of my post was ignored you can only tele if yo ucan get on thee in the first place.

[Quartz]

appertnly the point of my post was ignored you can only tele if yo ucan get on thee in the first place.

Right, but even if the teleporter placement is centered on the middle of the ship like you seem to be suggesting, you can still wallhack into a wall by being clever with your teleporting. I assume I don't need to explain this as you've undoubtedly seen it many times.

[Santiago ZAP]

I think triple shot should be a shotgun (5 shots, would be cloakers main weapon)
repair really needs a buff, SRSLY
also cores get repaired 300% faster than players (bull rushing cores vs repair, for example, bull rush will ALWAYS win, and we need to make players strategic, I think)

Yes shotgun!!!! But it would actually kill the player completely in one shot.

[Little_Apple]

So.. instead of calling it triple.. it could be... quintuple... or... fripple..

[kaen]

Just putting this out there:

Bitfighter needs a noob cannon which provides significant power for little skill, but is still reliably beaten by a moderately skilled player using other weapons.

I think making triple into more of a true "shotgun" (able to kill in one shot if all projectiles hit) could satisfy those properties.

[Quartz]

Ya. I definitely agree with the idea of making Triple Fire into a shotgun. Far more shots, one shot kill if all pellets connect, and then of course decrease the fire rate significantly and up the energy usage a bit.

[Skybax]

I also agree with that idea. I also like the name "Fripple"

Neat idea, although I personally like Triple as a weapon. It's rather unique (both in its form and visuals) and fun to charge into an intense battle with, even if phaser or another weapon might be more effective.

Would not be opposed to the addition of a shotgun-type weapon, though.

[Quartz]

Neat idea, although I personally like Triple as a weapon. It's rather unique (both in its form and visuals) and fun to charge into an intense battle with, even if phaser or another weapon might be more effective.

Would not be opposed to the addition of a shotgun-type weapon, though.

Yes let's keep redundant weapons. Excellent.

[bobdaduck]

we could add a "machine gun" weapon!

[Quartz]

we could add a "machine gun" weapon!

Kinda like the Turret fire in Gibbed? XDDD

I agree a machine gun would be pretty neat

[bobdaduck]

it would do normal fire and be about as fast as phaser which already is a machine gun and the bullets would be yellow instead of purple

[Quartz]

it would do normal fire and be about as fast as phaser which already is a machine gun and the bullets would be yellow instead of purple

[Santiago ZAP]

it would do normal fire and be about as fast as phaser which already is a machine gun and the bullets would be yellow instead of purple

WELL THEN WHATS THE DIFFERENCE

Yes shotgun!!!! But it would actually kill the player completely in one shot.

Not in one shot, but like 1 shot delivers 85% dmg

umm, i will post my thoughts instead of making threads this time


sorry forgot to do just three
Basically triple, seeker, bouncer. Make seeker spammable AND deadly missiles (two diff kinds like turbo) and make triple projectiles much faster. bouncers bouncing off everything will be a nightmare, kill it now!


Phaser is a deadly weapon. Five shots and win.
Personally the whole die so easily doesn't appeal to me but thats the game problem. anyway

Phaser - Five shots for a kill is ok.
Triple - weapon that doesn't work when you need it to Increase speed of projectiles and it might be useful
Burst - powerful as-is. don't care about direct hit, no protest... GRENADE. (THROWS BACK)
Mine - works fine. except in asteroid fields.. WHY SO VULNERABLE?
Seeker - We need at least two kinds, they're missiles. split the missile types if want
1. Spammable missiles, compare to burst fire rate. Can't track cloaked ships. Dies easy. also crashes easy

2. Dangerous missiles. Actually a mild challenge to break. compare to current fire rate, maybe even less.
Right now we have neither, but a middleman - track a cloaked ship, but doesn't do much damage. not always destroyed but often is. often crashes anyway

Bouncer - weapon is fine (well ff sucks). A bit expensive, but it works! bouncers lasting forever will be horror for everyone though, kill it pls.