Arena Mode

This came up a while ago. Go ahead and check out Quartz's Search & Destroy map if you haven't already, it'll give you a proper understanding of how the mode works. (Basically, it's 1-3 lives to live, then you're out.)

I was never really behind the whole idea until I played a solid game of 3v3 a couple nights ago. Competitive Bitfighter is pretty cool.

I'd like to take it one step further, and allow game hosters to set and limit the amount of weapon usage per ship. ie. 40 bouncers, 60 triple, 3 mines. Infinite phaser. etc. Really though, just limiting mines and spybugs would be neat.

I was playing a balanced game tonight and found that when mines weren't placed, there was a much stronger emphasis on raw skill and competition. Players couldn't rely on traps or luck, and had to straight-up engage with their enemies. I wouldn't recommend it for casual games, but for high-caliber competition, mines are a bit of a cheap shot.

The most glaring obstacle has been the lack of a spectator mode. I think this should be solvable with a simple levelgen script, however. After x number of deaths, change spawn point of player. Is this possible?

And, there would need to be a "game set" feature, where scores were tallied based on the number of match wins, not points. Ex. Instead of getting 10 kills to win, you'd need to win three rounds. Regardless of if Arena goes to publication, a "game set" feature would be nice for general competitive play.

Of course, a mode with these properties would bring up some unfortunate side effects. Any suggestions on how to combat them?

- Newcomers joining a competitive server may become discouraged after inevitable round losses.
- Players may not enjoy waiting while rounds are active. [Though, side note, I haven't seen this as much of a problem.]
- Restricting ship lives and weapon usage may not adhere to Bitfighter's core gameplay mechanics. This is bad because (a) it's just not cool and (b) it may give newcomers a misleading impression of the game.

Discuss!

more stuff to play with = more fun

[Quartz]

Not a fan of the limiting weapons thing, but other than that ... yep, sounds good.

Maybe limiting most of the weapons is excessive. But I'd definitely like to see a toggle for reduced mines. I think what I argued in my first post was sufficient.

[Skybax]

I'd rather have "Only burst" rounds than a round with only "60 phaser shots" or something lol

[Quartz]

Maybe limiting most of the weapons is excessive. But I'd definitely like to see a toggle for reduced mines. I think what I argued in my first post was sufficient.

I don't understand why we can't just add an arena/one-life mode and be done with it, instead of trying to go into details that we aren't all going to agree on: WE WANT AN ARENA/ONE-LIFE MODE.

You guys are all going into too much detail lately and it's a pretty effective way to get absolutely nothing done because we all have different opinions/experiences.

because we all have different opinions/experiences.

Looks like you just answered your own question. It's not as simple as just "add the feature" and be done with it, since we have different opinions about what the feature should look and play like. There's no feature proposition currently that universally meets everyone's expectations.

More importantly, ideas are worth discussing to come up with the optimal solution. I'm not sure why you're bothered by that...? Unless we're on a deadline, let's take the time to get it right the first time, and not have to go back at it multiple times later.

Your core point, "KISS," is worth noting, but that shouldn't have to stop our thinktank from occurring.

three lives has a sort of charm, doesnt it?

[kaen]

I hate to always be the "no" man, but I'm against adding features into the engine that can be achieved through scripting. In 019 you can control health, weapon usage, and (with some ingenuity) scoring.

The only thing missing is a spectator mode for when you're "out" which is something I've tried to add (twice now) without any luck. I'm still trying, and one of the other devs might have better luck, but it definitely won't happen in 019.

[Quartz]

plucking well

LIMITED LIFE SYSTEM

Can you do THAT with a level-gen?

Sure! If respawn and died already, player coords = observer spot

[Quartz]

Sure! If respawn and died already, player coords = observer spot

Marvelous, thank you. In that case have fun debating pointlessly and endlessly sky.

My real point is: Start simple. Start with something we can all agree on. (e.g. limited life gametype) THEN after it gets added go into detail. Right now just about everyone is jumping into massive amounts of details on these topics, and it's completely counter-productive.

Sure! If respawn and died already, player coords = observer spot

Marvelous, thank you. In that case have fun debating pointlessly and endlessly sky.

My real point is: Start simple. Start with something we can all agree on. (e.g. limited life gametype) THEN after it gets added go into detail. Right now just about everyone is jumping into massive amounts of details on these topics, and it's completely counter-productive.

No, it's not. It's thinking and discussing for the sake of efficiency. Spending a few days to discuss the pros and cons of different features requires very little effort, whereas actually implementing a feature would require considerably more time and effort (well, I'm not a dev, but I'd imagine so).

I'm sorry, but I'm still having trouble following your lead. Start simple, sure... but why work to ADD that simple feature instead of fleshing it out fully? Do it once and you won't have to do it again. That's what being productive is all about.

If nothing less I'd play an arena mode as a sort of classic mode like in SSB, or those colloseum games in ratchet and clank

I'm not sure if that's what is being described here.

Nevermind, I'm going to nix my weapon/module restriction idea. I just can't get over the idea of breaking existing gameplay mechanics - the same mechanics that make this game special - in favor of supposedly improving competitiveness. It just feels wrong to me.

That said, I'm growing to dislike cloak and mine more and more for competitive games. They feel like cheap shots to me... cop outs, if you will. I have virtually no defense against cloakers or mines except to be constantly alert and hope I don't blink. Similarly, cloak and mine used successfully is almost always a product of sheer luck. And in a game where I'm working my ass off to survive, it can be very frustrating.

I have no idea what to do about this, though...

[Feel free to split if you have some input, otherwise we should go back to the Arena thread.]

that describes mine perfectly. not cloak - that one takes some skill

It takes some skill to fully kill the player... You usually have about a second to react. So, fair counter-point I suppose. (Though I would note that my point stands if the cloaker's victim has half-energy or so.)

[Skybax]

Mines only frustrate me when they're placed at the ends of teleports. Everywhere else I can see them, and I can also hear them being placed.
Cloak, however, I believe is a legitimate form of play. Not everyone has to jump into the fray guns blazing. As more of a calculated dodge/aim player myself, who hardly ever uses shield, cloak is a staple to me. I dislike being in the middle of a firefight with four other people who all use shield until their energy runs out. It makes it seem more like a mindless phaser frenzy and I lose track of what's going on.
Cloak lets a player fulfill more of an assassin's role. Not only do you have to be careful about avoiding walls and other players (as this gives away your position), but you also have to get the timing perfect in order to make the kill. A person with low health is an easy kill, no matter your strategy.
Sure, in TF2, spies can infuriate me, but they still require skill to use accurately.

Mines only frustrate me when they're placed at the ends of teleports. Everywhere else I can see them, and I can also hear them being placed.
Cloak, however, I believe is a legitimate form of play. Not everyone has to jump into the fray guns blazing. As more of a calculated dodge/aim player myself, who hardly ever uses shield, cloak is a staple to me. I dislike being in the middle of a firefight with four other people who all use shield until their energy runs out. It makes it seem more like a mindless phaser frenzy and I lose track of what's going on.
Cloak lets a player fulfill more of an assassin's role. Not only do you have to be careful about avoiding walls and other players (as this gives away your position), but you also have to get the timing perfect in order to make the kill. A person with low health is an easy kill, no matter your strategy.
Sure, in TF2, spies can infuriate me, but they still require skill to use accurately.

Well said

[Quartz]

Mines only frustrate me when they're placed at the ends of teleports. Everywhere else I can see them, and I can also hear them being placed.
Cloak, however, I believe is a legitimate form of play. Not everyone has to jump into the fray guns blazing. As more of a calculated dodge/aim player myself, who hardly ever uses shield, cloak is a staple to me. I dislike being in the middle of a firefight with four other people who all use shield until their energy runs out. It makes it seem more like a mindless phaser frenzy and I lose track of what's going on.
Cloak lets a player fulfill more of an assassin's role. Not only do you have to be careful about avoiding walls and other players (as this gives away your position), but you also have to get the timing perfect in order to make the kill. A person with low health is an easy kill, no matter your strategy.
Sure, in TF2, spies can infuriate me, but they still require skill to use accurately.

Wow someone who actually bothers to think about how other players might feel. Amazing.

[Skybax]

Wow someone who actually bothers to think about how other players might feel. Amazing.

I think about a lot of things >.>