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| 00:26:09 | raptor | what |
| 00:26:34 | raptor | going home |
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| 03:25:04 | Little_Apple | oh hi CrazyLinuxNerd! |
| 03:25:24 | CrazyLinuxNerd | Hi, can't talk right now sorry, busy configuring servers :-) |
| 03:25:34 | Little_Apple | ah ok |
| 03:30:42 | | raptor has joined |
| 03:30:42 | | ChanServ sets mode +o raptor |
| 03:31:44 | Little_Apple | hello raptor |
| 03:31:50 | raptor | oh hu |
| 03:31:53 | raptor | uh hi |
| 03:32:06 | Little_Apple | i did some research on the 3ds... |
| 03:32:20 | raptor | i still don't know what it looks like... |
| 03:32:21 | Little_Apple | it seems the sdk alone cost a few thousand |
| 03:32:27 | Little_Apple | soooo forget that |
| 03:32:31 | raptor | oh yikes! |
| 03:32:37 | raptor | that's uh... like |
| 03:32:43 | raptor | lots of food for my family |
| 03:32:50 | Little_Apple | yea lol |
| 03:35:37 | raptor | so you still owe me two balance changes.. :) |
| 03:36:46 | raptor | actually, i'm suprised several people have been asking for repair module enhancements |
| 03:37:47 | Little_Apple | um... |
| 03:37:58 | Little_Apple | bouncer and triple take less energy? |
| 03:38:18 | raptor | isn't triple practically free already? |
| 03:38:18 | Little_Apple | or bouncer deal more damage? and take the same amount of energy? |
| 03:38:26 | Little_Apple | not sure. |
| 03:38:28 | Little_Apple | i never use it |
| 03:38:32 | Little_Apple | :P |
| 03:40:31 | Little_Apple | i think a bitfighter port to the playstation vita would be a little more doable |
| 03:40:34 | raptor | this is after 20seconds of non-stop fire: http://sam6.25u.com/upload/4screenshot_7.png |
| 03:40:56 | raptor | playstation vita? where do all these game systems come from?? |
| 03:41:03 | Little_Apple | lol |
| 03:41:13 | Little_Apple | the playstation vita is another mobile console |
| 03:41:42 | Little_Apple | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Vita |
| 03:42:53 | raptor | oh neat, it already has dual axes |
| 03:43:41 | Little_Apple | yep so controls would be more comfortable than the 3ds |
| 03:45:52 | Little_Apple | i think the sdk is a little more reasonably priced... |
| 03:46:02 | raptor | i'm searching for the pricing... |
| 03:48:49 | raptor | huh, looks like anyone can register as a developer, but there is a license for publising in the store |
| 03:49:22 | Little_Apple | hmm |
| 03:49:43 | raptor | we should still probably finish the android or iOS ports first... |
| 03:51:08 | raptor | i'm just *really* bad at interface design |
| 03:52:02 | Little_Apple | :P |
| 03:52:22 | Little_Apple | i think for a mobile port the level editor could be taken out |
| 03:52:33 | Little_Apple | so its just the game |
| 03:52:36 | raptor | yes, i agree |
| 03:53:44 | Little_Apple | the biggest problem i can see for an android or iOS port would be the controls |
| 03:54:08 | raptor | yes, that's were we left off in fact |
| 03:54:21 | raptor | koda got everything compiling for iOS, but we have no controls |
| 03:54:38 | Little_Apple | i could try coming up with something... |
| 03:55:25 | Little_Apple | but it would be.. quite rough |
| 03:55:33 | raptor | 'virtual joysticks' were the idea |
| 03:55:59 | Little_Apple | yea but what about modules |
| 03:55:59 | raptor | my problem is that I *really* don't like developing on OSX... but koda loves it |
| 03:56:06 | raptor | oh yeah... |
| 03:56:08 | raptor | hmm |
| 03:56:54 | Little_Apple | the thing i cant really think of a solution to is how to control all that you could with a keyboard with your thumbs |
| 03:57:15 | raptor | exactly! |
| 03:58:05 | raptor | it might be easier if we allow tilting to do the movement.. but is tilting a common game mechanic? |
| 03:58:33 | Little_Apple | the best thing i can think of would be a bluetooth gamepad accessory |
| 03:58:42 | raptor | haha, yep! |
| 03:58:47 | Little_Apple | i personally hate tilting for movement... |
| 03:59:02 | Little_Apple | i think tilt controls would be a little better for aiming |
| 03:59:15 | Little_Apple | and have a virtual stick for movement |
| 03:59:23 | Little_Apple | which leaves one thumb for modules |
| 04:00:52 | raptor | there's just so many things to do at once |
| 04:01:02 | Little_Apple | yea.. |
| 04:01:18 | raptor | man Little_Apple, you're making me think mobile is bad now... |
| 04:01:26 | Little_Apple | ahaha |
| 04:02:08 | Little_Apple | i couldnt really think of a good solution to the controls myself which is one of the reasons i stopped nagging about it :P |
| 04:02:34 | raptor | haha |
| 04:03:03 | Little_Apple | which is why i think a vita port would be easier |
| 04:03:11 | Little_Apple | wouldnt have to worry about the controls.. |
| 04:03:51 | Little_Apple | but an iOS/android port still might work.. |
| 04:05:11 | raptor | i'm worried about distribution, though |
| 04:05:22 | Little_Apple | raptor: footloose wants to know if there used to be a paypal donate button on the site |
| 04:05:38 | raptor | the reason why we're leaning towards andriod first is because it's easy to distribute.. |
| 04:05:51 | raptor | no, i don't ever remember there being a paypal button |
| 04:05:57 | Little_Apple | i can try to come up with a control scheme... |
| 04:11:35 | Little_Apple | the aspect ratio would also be much wider |
| 04:12:06 | Little_Apple | maybe the controls could be off to the side keeping the aspect ratio the same? |
| 04:12:47 | raptor | like non-stretch with black bars? |
| 04:13:30 | Little_Apple | yes |
| 04:13:37 | raptor | good idea |
| 04:14:00 | Little_Apple | but that way the ships might appear to be tiny.. |
| 04:14:10 | Little_Apple | and it would be pretty hard to hit things |
| 04:15:51 | raptor | well we'd use one of the screen dimensions to its fullest |
| 04:19:19 | Little_Apple | a health bar might be nice... due to the fact that its hard enough to see the ship as it is |
| 04:23:29 | Little_Apple | maybe have the screen shifted to one side even... |
| 04:39:22 | Little_Apple | raptor: heres what i've come up with... http://i.imgur.com/OoRiUkV.png |
| 04:41:04 | Little_Apple | its kinda minimalistic... |
| 04:42:56 | raptor | how do you do the aim vs movement? |
| 04:43:12 | Little_Apple | aiming would be done with tilt |
| 04:43:30 | Little_Apple | oh wait... how would you fire... |
| 04:43:34 | Little_Apple | hmmmmm |
| 04:43:50 | Little_Apple | 3rd button! |
| 04:43:57 | Little_Apple | er.... |
| 04:44:07 | Little_Apple | voice commands. |
| 04:44:13 | Little_Apple | its brilliant. |
| 04:45:27 | raptor | actually, have you played with a joystick before? |
| 04:45:54 | raptor | firing can be done in two ways... trigger OR extreme aim |
| 04:46:12 | raptor | so we could take care of firing with extreme aim |
| 04:46:20 | raptor | but we'd need another virtual joystick |
| 04:47:24 | Little_Apple | yea but then you wouldnt have any fingers left for modules.. |
| 04:47:36 | raptor | that's what your tongue is for! |
| 04:47:43 | Little_Apple | or nose |
| 04:47:48 | Little_Apple | :D |
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| 04:49:19 | Little_Apple | whoops |
| 04:50:31 | Little_Apple | maybe automatic firing for when either module is used? |
| 04:51:02 | raptor | douple tapping? |
| 04:51:14 | Little_Apple | hmmm... maybe |
| 04:56:56 | Little_Apple | my best solution is to just touch the screen |
| 05:34:42 | Little_Apple | http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5129/5279082639_641ebe4239_b.jpg |
| 05:35:27 | raptor | whoa |
| 05:35:31 | raptor | where did that come from? |
| 05:37:25 | Little_Apple | i dont know lol |
| 05:37:31 | Little_Apple | footloose sent it to me |
| 06:21:13 | raptor | good ngiht! |
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| 13:07:21 | Watusimoto | just a reminder that we need to add seekers to the weapon stats page |
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| 13:34:41 | raptor | seekers are not stats? |
| 13:34:43 | raptor | hmmm |
| 13:34:49 | raptor | and good day |
| 13:38:29 | | c_korn has joined |
| 13:38:44 | c_korn | hello |
| 13:39:20 | c_korn | trying to create a Debian package for Ubuntu 12.10 amd64 there is this error: http://0bin.net/paste/2a29df41537b5ef8d143f0fb407bbe7d56a1fee1#YJzxm6eRgYRSYm10FQx3vkgan0ZGj0NiNsqrkbfLUlw= |
| 13:39:27 | raptor | hi |
| 13:39:33 | raptor | welcome to #bitfighter! |
| 13:40:06 | raptor | c_korn: use the cmake system instead of the old Makefile |
| 13:40:15 | raptor | cd build && cmake .. |
| 13:41:00 | raptor | also, there are two cmake patches you make need to apply to the stock 018a release found here: https://build.opensuse.org/package/show?package=bitfighter&project=games |
| 13:41:52 | raptor | you'll notice that we build for debian 6.0 already on that build page, and you can look at the .dsc, debian.rules, etc. for reference |
| 13:43:30 | c_korn | the package is for the Ubuntu gaming site playdeb.net (I am the maintainer of this repository) |
| 13:43:47 | raptor | oh great! you guys are back up and running then? |
| 13:43:54 | c_korn | yup |
| 13:43:57 | raptor | excellent |
| 13:45:03 | raptor | the OBS (Open Build Service) can build for Ubuntu, but our game uses some packages in the 'universe' repository which isn't always imported |
| 13:45:16 | raptor | so we've had to point people to the debian build |
| 13:46:51 | | koda Quit (Quit: K Thx Bai) |
| 13:47:09 | Watusimoto | hi |
| 13:47:13 | raptor | hi |
| 13:47:20 | Watusimoto | just found out that /shuffle is broken in 018a |
| 13:47:30 | raptor | awww |
| 13:47:34 | Watusimoto | I'll fix it, but it's annoying none-the-less |
| 13:47:44 | Watusimoto | otoh, shows how many people use that feature! |
| 13:47:56 | raptor | haha |
| 13:48:07 | Watusimoto | hi christoph! |
| 13:48:45 | raptor | oh yikes, when i try to /shuffle, i can't use the keyboard anymore |
| 13:49:08 | Watusimoto | raptor: what do you think we should do when we haev a feature like /shuffle that no one appaerntly uses, but that we (or at least i) as admin think is a good feature? |
| 13:49:18 | Watusimoto | should we fix it or axe it? |
| 13:49:30 | raptor | i've actually seen this one used in contest parties |
| 13:49:47 | Watusimoto | ok, then I'll fix it. I'm working on related stuff anywway |
| 13:49:53 | raptor | but i think it is worth keeping around for a couple releases... |
| 13:50:00 | raptor | because yes, i think it is useful |
| 13:50:18 | raptor | are you working on the /suspend removal and idle fixes? |
| 13:50:22 | Watusimoto | no |
| 13:50:33 | Watusimoto | working on a surprise feature :-) |
| 13:50:39 | c_korn | hi Watusimoto |
| 13:50:48 | raptor | feature! |
| 13:50:50 | raptor | yay |
| 13:51:04 | c_korn | "/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -ltomcrypt" this library is only required for linking? |
| 13:51:08 | Watusimoto | not so much a feature as eye candy |
| 13:51:23 | raptor | c_korn: did you use the cmake system? it should build libtomcrypt |
| 13:51:32 | c_korn | yes, used it. |
| 13:51:41 | Watusimoto | c_korn: I'm glad playdeb is back up |
| 13:51:48 | c_korn | thanks Watusimoto |
| 13:51:56 | raptor | brb |
| 13:52:15 | c_korn | hum, http://0bin.net/paste/2c7cb93a6518e4daf4ddd33e6c5909b495632568#vb7IN3tSbcN3MTRXyUWrDjOLVenf/tClKeame0A3CN8= |
| 13:54:36 | Watusimoto | we'll need to wait for raptor to answer that one |
| 13:55:55 | raptor | hi, sorry, there was sadness in the kids' room |
| 13:55:58 | raptor | ok looking... |
| 13:56:24 | raptor | c_korn: that is odd |
| 13:56:36 | raptor | where did you grab the source? |
| 13:57:01 | c_korn | let me extract the tarball again |
| 13:57:41 | raptor | did you take a look at the debian.rules we use? |
| 13:57:47 | c_korn | wget http://bitfighter.googlecode.com/files/bitfighter-018a.tar.gz 7400a23f461103920cda523237fd9196 bitfighter_0.0.018a.orig.tar.gz |
| 13:57:48 | raptor | on the OBS page |
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| 13:59:01 | raptor | yep, that's the correct one |
| 13:59:26 | raptor | there is a CMakeLists.txt in the libtomcrypt directory |
| 14:00:11 | c_korn | ok, build succeeded |
| 14:00:20 | c_korn | seems the make build it broke cmake |
| 14:00:29 | raptor | hmmm |
| 14:00:35 | raptor | we should get rid of the old make files |
| 14:00:59 | raptor | i never thought this day woudl come! :) |
| 14:01:06 | c_korn | this is my debian/rules ;) %: |
| 14:01:07 | c_korn | dh $@ --parallel --buildsystem=cmake |
| 14:01:28 | raptor | that's it? |
| 14:01:43 | raptor | that's much less complicated than mine... |
| 14:03:29 | raptor | Watusimoto: I'm suprised at how many players want a repair module enhancement |
| 14:03:39 | raptor | they're probably collaborating |
| 14:03:51 | c_korn | you can take a look here. but this is still the old version. I do not need those patches an longer: https://github.com/ckorn/PlayDeb/tree/precise/bitfighter |
| 14:04:45 | raptor | wow, you package a lot! |
| 14:06:18 | c_korn | this is what lintian says about the packages: http://0bin.net/paste/b75e91b423651e865d9b05b27d319eee35ce5c07#PGr5vukoLKnRIEspxyBLksu73ooC1L+bbpjL6oz5vEY= |
| 14:07:11 | c_korn | spelling mistakes, static linking to sqlite and a missing manpage |
| 14:07:58 | Watusimoto | c_korn: please let us know if there is anything we can do to make it easier to package |
| 14:08:16 | c_korn | fix those lintian warnings ;) |
| 14:08:20 | Watusimoto | raptor: I keep hearing about double click repair, but I'm not sure what it would do... dump all your energy at once? |
| 14:09:00 | raptor | Watusimoto: that's the idea |
| 14:09:10 | raptor | c_korn: I will fix spelling mistakes |
| 14:09:13 | raptor | :) |
| 14:09:36 | raptor | we don't have a man page |
| 14:09:43 | raptor | in fact, i know nothing about creating one... |
| 14:09:54 | c_korn | hum, Error compiling script /home/korn/.bitfighter/scripts/lua_helper_functions.lua cannot open /home/korn/.bitfighter/scripts/lua_helper_functions.lua: No such file or directory |
| 14:10:36 | c_korn | ah, the game looks in the wrong directory: /usr/share/bitfighter/sfx/phaser.wav |
| 14:10:55 | c_korn | it is: /usr/share/games/bitfighter/sfx/phaser.wav |
| 14:11:39 | raptor | oh |
| 14:11:51 | raptor | for linux you need to set a definition |
| 14:12:22 | raptor | in my debian.rules: sed -i -e 's/LINUX_DATA_DIR.*$$/LINUX_DATA_DIR "\/usr\/share\/games"/' config.h |
| 14:12:50 | raptor | you have to set the LINUX_DATA_DIR in the config.h |
| 14:13:00 | raptor | we should move that to CMake |
| 14:13:23 | Watusimoto | I thought we did |
| 14:13:40 | Watusimoto | oh, sorry, misread |
| 14:13:42 | Watusimoto | cancel |
| 14:14:54 | c_korn | where is /usr/share coming from initially? |
| 14:15:20 | c_korn | is there a cmake option to set it? (like configure --datadir=/usr/share/games/bitfighter) |
| 14:15:39 | raptor | it is in the config.h file found at the repository root |
| 14:15:59 | raptor | but that should be changed to CMake - it was an oversight on my part before release |
| 14:16:09 | c_korn | ah, it is already there and does not get created. then I write a patch. |
| 14:16:27 | raptor | yes |
| 14:16:51 | raptor | thanks for finging bugs in the packaging! we just barely moved to CMake and have been slowly ironing out the wrinkles |
| 14:17:25 | Watusimoto | raptor: I was just helping zemmer with a minecraft problem, and took a look at how they do acheivements |
| 14:17:39 | c_korn | why do you have sqlite.c in your repository anyway? |
| 14:17:44 | raptor | and ideas? |
| 14:17:47 | Watusimoto | they are basically mapped out in such a way that you need to acheive them in a certain order |
| 14:17:58 | raptor | interesting... |
| 14:17:58 | Watusimoto | achieving one unlocks another |
| 14:18:10 | Watusimoto | almost like a tech tree |
| 14:18:17 | raptor | c_korn: sqlite.c is used for local statistics tracking |
| 14:18:59 | c_korn | yeah, but why do you compile it yourself? just link to the shared lib (this is what the lintian error about statically linking to sqlite is about) |
| 14:19:26 | raptor | c_korn: i don't remember teh original thinking behind it honestly |
| 14:19:40 | raptor | my spelling today is suffering.. |
| 14:20:51 | raptor | hey Watusimoto, c_korn has applied this patch to bitfighter, and I know nothing about the related system: https://github.com/ckorn/PlayDeb/blob/precise/bitfighter/patches/disable_profiler.patch |
| 14:21:06 | raptor | do you? |
| 14:21:28 | c_korn | is the joystick.ini a problem? and what about the music? http://0bin.net/paste/8b7cd88c64c3809d84c3c8a1f4213fa3e40207c9#lUsaNj/YFqMDPJ/AG5S/Av0w9856m0Qgtj3F577pYII= |
| 14:22:07 | c_korn | this patch is completely useless. the include is already commented out |
| 14:22:22 | Watusimoto | all it seems to do is remove a commented line that optionally enabled the profiler |
| 14:22:29 | c_korn | don't ask me why quilt added the second hunk (probably whitespace issues) |
| 14:22:55 | Watusimoto | which we've never actually enabled in practice (I did once, but wasn't ready to really play with it) |
| 14:23:21 | Watusimoto | >>> this patch is completely useless. the include is already commented out <<< :-) |
| 14:23:49 | Watusimoto | why did you make that suggestion? |
| 14:24:33 | c_korn | but it was not commented out in some version. resulting in a compile error. this is why I created this patch initially. |
| 14:25:02 | Watusimoto | ah, ok |
| 14:25:31 | c_korn | don't assume I write patches to remove comments :D |
| 14:26:38 | Watusimoto | hey! 0bin implements the feature I was going to design a website around! |
| 14:26:46 | Watusimoto | one less project! |
| 14:26:52 | Watusimoto | it's the burn after reading feature |
| 14:27:28 | c_korn | ok, seemed I forgot to include the music dir and joystick.ini in the package. bbl |
| 14:27:38 | Watusimoto | I can use that to send a password and be sure that only you get it |
| 14:27:42 | raptor | :) |
| 14:27:51 | Watusimoto | if you can't read it it means someone else did, so I know I need to change the pw |
| 14:27:56 | | koda has joined |
| 14:27:58 | raptor | Watusimoto: i just found 0bin yesterday |
| 14:28:03 | Watusimoto | and if you do read it, I know no one else can |
| 14:28:10 | Watusimoto | if you trust the system |
| 14:28:12 | raptor | it loks really neat |
| 14:28:19 | Watusimoto | indeed |
| 14:28:27 | Watusimoto | I'll be back in a bit |
| 14:28:35 | koda | 0bin? |
| 14:28:43 | Watusimoto | going to play a game (board game!) with my son |
| 14:28:52 | raptor | koda: pastebin where the server don't know the contents of the paste |
| 14:29:02 | raptor | yay board game |
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| 14:49:31 | c_korn | re |
| 14:49:38 | raptor | hi |
| 14:50:26 | c_korn | actually the intention for 0bin is to secure the server providers not the users |
| 14:50:40 | raptor | yes, to absolve them of responsibility |
| 14:50:44 | c_korn | "The goal of 0bin is not to protect the users or their secrets." |
| 14:52:08 | c_korn | it is like mega. but only for plain text |
| 14:52:30 | c_korn | do you need the master.cfg to be installed, too? |
| 14:53:10 | raptor | no |
| 14:53:18 | raptor | unneeded |
| 14:55:22 | c_korn | great. then the package should be ready. |
| 14:57:01 | raptor | yay! |
| 14:59:08 | c_korn | http://0bin.net/paste/dd7e8d74cb4c04b06db0e420629e7fd97c7eca1f#Z9ARLTIGP6gHG1uoncMW6o8k8hDB9qpY3FONsxdr2fk= |
| 15:01:19 | c_korn | you can even follow the build ;) http://build.getdeb.net:4321 should begin in a few minutes |
| 15:07:12 | c_korn | omg, it compiles ;) |
| 15:12:45 | raptor | hooray! |
| 15:19:19 | c_korn | pushed my changes. package will be published in a few hours. the mirrors need to sync first. |
| 15:19:41 | raptor | thanks! |
| 15:20:24 | raptor | i'm curious |
| 15:20:51 | raptor | what would the *proper* way be to handle the LINUX_DATA_DIR in the build system? |
| 15:21:53 | c_korn | hm, not sure how cmake works. with configure you can set datadir and datarootdir which are then written to some config.h as #define I think. |
| 15:22:34 | raptor | ok, I preset up that config.h based on that idea, but we have never used autotools only a simple Makefile |
| 15:23:42 | c_korn | maybe this is the way to do it with cmake: https://github.com/lookout/cgreen/blob/master/config.h.cmake |
| 15:24:18 | raptor | hmmm |
| 15:24:27 | raptor | ok, i'll look into it.. |
| 15:24:29 | raptor | thanks |
| 15:25:33 | c_korn | those variables can then be filled in CMakeLists.txt or overwrite them with cmake -DFOO=bar https://github.com/lookout/cgreen/blob/master/CMakeLists.txt |
| 15:27:09 | c_korn | also don't forget: configure_file(config.h.cmake ${CMAKE_CURRENT_BINARY_DIR}/config.h) |
| 15:27:10 | | koda Quit (Quit: K Thx Bai) |
| 15:27:35 | raptor | ok, i'll have to do some research |
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| 16:09:11 | c_korn | here you go, https://plus.google.com/u/0/117277779496344929549/posts/WgK7Ma3LeAZ |
| 16:10:05 | raptor | great! |
| 16:11:19 | raptor | FYI, that screenshot is a little out of date |
| 16:11:33 | c_korn | what should I use instead? |
| 16:11:44 | raptor | there are some newer ones here: https://bitfighter.org/screenshots |
| 16:12:57 | raptor | actually |
| 16:13:08 | raptor | i think watusimoto has some better ones on desura... |
| 16:13:23 | raptor | http://www.desura.com/games/bitfighter/images |
| 16:14:26 | c_korn | this one? http://media.desura.com/cache/images/games/1/21/20792/thumb_940x3000/screenshot6.png |
| 16:14:34 | raptor | haha, sure! |
| 16:14:57 | raptor | mainly the colors have changed a little so has the interface |
| 16:16:03 | | Watusimoto has joined |
| 16:19:28 | raptor | c_korn: if you don't mind my asking; what had happened to playdeb for all of those months? |
| 16:19:42 | raptor | it seemed to just disappear |
| 16:21:39 | c_korn | the server crashed |
| 16:21:51 | raptor | that stinks |
| 16:21:53 | c_korn | and it seemed we did not have an up-to-date backup |
| 16:21:57 | c_korn | which we had at the end |
| 16:22:27 | raptor | oh good |
| 16:22:35 | c_korn | screenshot updated, btw |
| 16:23:03 | raptor | thanks! |
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| 16:39:36 | | Darrel has joined |
| 16:40:52 | Watusimoto | yes, thanks |
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| 17:03:29 | | Little_Apple has joined |
| 17:03:48 | Little_Apple | raptor: i have come up with a solution! |
| 17:04:14 | Little_Apple | i think. |
| 17:04:55 | raptor | hi Little_Apple |
| 17:05:14 | Little_Apple | hello, what do you think about using the volume button to fire? |
| 17:05:25 | raptor | ha |
| 17:05:48 | Little_Apple | i think it could work... |
| 17:09:06 | raptor | b hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh |
| 17:14:37 | raptor | vvvvvvvffffffvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv |
| 17:15:34 | Little_Apple | its a code! |
| 17:23:44 | raptor | ok back |
| 17:24:36 | raptor | honestly i don't know much about mobile interface to suggest one method is good or familiar over another |
| 17:41:06 | Little_Apple | im off for now |
| 17:41:08 | | Little_Apple Quit (Quit: Page closed) |
| 17:51:41 | raptor | BFLogBot |
| 17:51:41 | BFLogBot | I'm a real boy.... I think? |
| 18:13:10 | | -kornbluth.freenode.net- *** Looking up your hostname... |
| 18:13:10 | | -kornbluth.freenode.net- *** Checking Ident |
| 18:13:10 | | -kornbluth.freenode.net- *** No Ident response |
| 18:13:10 | | -kornbluth.freenode.net- *** Couldn't look up your hostname |
| 18:13:15 | | BFLogBot has joined |
| 18:13:15 | | Topic is 'Bitfighter 018a released! | http://www.bitfighter.org/downloads | Join us in the forums! at http://bitfighter.org/forums/' |
| 18:13:15 | | Set by watusimoto!~eykamp@SU115.tudor.lu on Wed Mar 06 15:04:30 GMT 2013 |
| 18:13:15 | | -ChanServ- [#bitfighter] Welcome to #bitfighter. This is an IRC channel, many or all of the users may not be paying attention. Please have patience when waiting for a response. |
| 18:13:48 | | BFLogBot Commit: 374d1bb878a1 | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Spelling errors |
| 18:14:10 | raptor | there were other commits to fix cmake |
| 18:14:29 | raptor | but logbot port was not open for some reason so i restarted it |
| 18:15:43 | raptor | Watusimoto: do we want to revisit our sqlite integration? |
| 18:16:00 | raptor | as in, decide to remove it or make it compile-optional? |
| 18:20:35 | c_korn | dynamic linking would be enough to make lintian happy |
| 18:20:54 | raptor | yes, but we have the more serious issue of whether or not our game needs it anyway :) |
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| 20:04:09 | Watusimoto | hi raptor |
| 20:04:15 | Watusimoto | what is the deal with sqlite? |
| 20:04:19 | Watusimoto | causing problems? |
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| 20:28:51 | Little_Apple | hello |
| 20:32:36 | Little_Apple | CrazyLinuxNerd: will you be able to make it to the level contest party tonight? |
| 20:41:55 | CrazyLinuxNerd | Little_Apple: No sorry :/ |
| 20:58:42 | | raptor has joined |
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| 21:00:51 | raptor | hello peoples |
| 21:01:53 | raptor | Watusimoto: the issue is just that sqlite is included in most linux distros anyways and that we should just link against it instead of statically compile |
| 21:02:10 | raptor | but *another* issue is if anyone actually uses the sqlite features... |
| 21:02:29 | raptor | i.e. the local stats database |
| 21:02:29 | Little_Apple | hello |
| 21:02:31 | raptor | hi Little_Apple |
| 21:03:07 | Watusimoto | hi |
| 21:03:14 | raptor | hi |
| 21:03:36 | raptor | 2 hours until contest party! |
| 21:03:40 | Watusimoto | what do we use sqlite for now? stats on a master with no mysql? |
| 21:03:49 | raptor | once upon a time |
| 21:04:02 | raptor | we thought a local stats database for each and every game server would be cool |
| 21:04:18 | raptor | it's an INI option that I think it defaulted to off |
| 21:04:46 | Watusimoto | but those stats could be stored in master and retrieved on demand |
| 21:04:48 | raptor | but we also decided to add it to master |
| 21:05:01 | Watusimoto | ah, that was before master stats? |
| 21:05:05 | raptor | but we've never had a case where master didn't have mysql |
| 21:05:10 | raptor | no |
| 21:05:27 | Watusimoto | ok, well, it seems clear there is no good use case |
| 21:05:43 | raptor | we added it more or less simultaneously with our stats database |
| 21:05:49 | Watusimoto | although.... |
| 21:05:52 | raptor | in a fit of "this would be cool!" |
| 21:06:04 | Watusimoto | I was thinking just yesterday about a use for sqlite on the clients |
| 21:06:24 | Watusimoto | to manage cacheing of a central level repository |
| 21:06:41 | Watusimoto | or to actually store levels |
| 21:06:48 | Watusimoto | but that may not make any sense |
| 21:07:29 | Watusimoto | we could always store levels as files with md5 hash as their name |
| 21:07:32 | raptor | local database storage is a *really* good idea |
| 21:07:34 | Watusimoto | and get most of the benefit |
| 21:07:36 | raptor | if we need it |
| 21:07:41 | Watusimoto | if |
| 21:07:50 | raptor | but then we'd need a way to retrieve it |
| 21:07:57 | raptor | that is useful to the user |
| 21:08:04 | raptor | like firefox does with its history manager |
| 21:08:36 | Watusimoto | well, a list of level names/specs/previews might be useful |
| 21:09:14 | Watusimoto | I would really like to incorporate a preview into the various level choosers we have |
| 21:09:31 | Watusimoto | but I'm not sure sqlite is the answer |
| 21:10:37 | Watusimoto | so is our use of sqlite actually causing a problem? |
| 21:10:47 | Watusimoto | or is it just less efficient than using the system copy? |
| 21:11:26 | Watusimoto | because I am all about static linking and not worrying about a duplicate copy of the lib code |
| 21:12:18 | raptor | just less space efficient |
| 21:12:28 | raptor | sqlite is a really good choice for a local database |
| 21:12:50 | raptor | i like static compiling, too, much less 'mess', especially with our Xplat software |
| 21:13:22 | raptor | so it's not really hurting anything other than adding to the game size at the moment |
| 21:13:43 | Watusimoto | do we even distribute it at all? |
| 21:13:54 | Watusimoto | if it's only in master, then it really is harmelss |
| 21:14:03 | raptor | it's compiled into the main game |
| 21:14:15 | raptor | it was added to be a local stats database for a dedicated server |
| 21:14:50 | Watusimoto | why was c_korn asking about it? did it interfere with his work? |
| 21:15:05 | raptor | he's a linux packager for a shared-library based distribution |
| 21:15:08 | raptor | (so am I) |
| 21:15:29 | raptor | the convention is to link libraries not statically compile |
| 21:15:33 | Watusimoto | you mean a linux distro? |
| 21:15:38 | Watusimoto | based around shared libs? |
| 21:15:43 | raptor | yes |
| 21:15:52 | Watusimoto | a desktop distro? |
| 21:15:54 | raptor | (there are non-shared lib based distros, but they're rare) |
| 21:16:18 | raptor | it's just convention for all mainstream linux distros |
| 21:16:45 | Watusimoto | maybe I just don;t get something... I thought all (most) os's were shared library things, but with the option of static compiling |
| 21:16:54 | raptor | yes |
| 21:16:56 | raptor | they are |
| 21:16:58 | Watusimoto | no different than windows |
| 21:17:28 | Watusimoto | so all we're talking about here is whether to use the (equivalent of) the sqlite dll that's on the system already or shipping our own |
| 21:17:28 | raptor | but because we are not dynamically linking a common shared library and instead have chosen to statically compile it, convention is broken |
| 21:17:35 | raptor | y |
| 21:18:01 | raptor | that is what c_korn was talking about, because his build system threw a warning on the matter |
| 21:18:15 | Watusimoto | how did the system know what we were using internally? |
| 21:18:32 | raptor | there are several packaging 'lint' systems |
| 21:18:42 | Watusimoto | I mean, it's our binary... the system should keep out |
| 21:18:48 | raptor | after a package is created the lint program runs through the package to make sure it conforms |
| 21:18:56 | raptor | openSUSE / Fedora do the same thing |
| 21:19:15 | Watusimoto | what about our static linking of lua? |
| 21:19:27 | Watusimoto | if someone isntalled lua on their system, wouldn't it be the same issue? |
| 21:19:36 | raptor | it *would* detect that if we didn't compile it as libluavec |
| 21:19:41 | raptor | but you're right |
| 21:20:02 | raptor | to see an example of a lint output: https://build.opensuse.org/package/live_build_log?arch=x86_64&package=bitfighter&project=games&repository=openSUSE_12.2 |
| 21:20:06 | raptor | last 2 pages |
| 21:20:12 | raptor | there is a RPMlint report |
| 21:20:57 | Watusimoto | I detect an air of the ridiclous in this conversation... maybe I'm just not a true believer :-) static linking is a developer decision, not a religous one! |
| 21:21:17 | raptor | and I completely feel the same way |
| 21:21:29 | Watusimoto | so |
| 21:21:34 | raptor | I hope I'm not trying to convince in any way - I'm just trying to be informative |
| 21:21:37 | Watusimoto | now that we've got that cleared up... |
| 21:21:44 | Watusimoto | :-) |
| 21:21:55 | Watusimoto | the question is do we need sqlite |
| 21:22:03 | c_korn | Watusimoto: point is of fixing bugs in the lib. shared linking: fix it in one place. static linking: fix all n apps which have it linked. |
| 21:22:04 | raptor | yes, that is my issue now |
| 21:22:06 | Watusimoto | the answer seems to be in the immediate case, no |
| 21:23:02 | c_korn | but I think games are no subject of security issues anyway ;) doesn't matter |
| 21:23:09 | Watusimoto | c_korn: yes, that's true, but you can also argue the other way, and say the advantages of avoiding (the equivalent of) dll hell are worth not being able to have the user upgrade parts of your system in a way that you haven't tested |
| 21:23:24 | raptor | to be honest, there is less of DLL Hell on Linux... |
| 21:23:29 | raptor | (nowadays) |
| 21:23:37 | Watusimoto | .so hell :-) |
| 21:23:41 | raptor | hahaha |
| 21:23:43 | raptor | yeah.. |
| 21:24:00 | raptor | but mature distros have been rigid enough on the matter for a while that it isn't really an issue.. |
| 21:24:24 | raptor | and Linux doesn't keep forward compatibility like Windows has kindly done |
| 21:24:49 | Watusimoto | in any case, I think we can get rid of sqlite for our current purposes, but we may decide to add it back in the future |
| 21:24:50 | c_korn | if compatibility with an old lib version breaks and there are apps still using the old version then the distro has to distribute both versions |
| 21:25:05 | c_korn | this is why (inline in windows) there is a version in each .so file |
| 21:25:24 | c_korn | s/inline/unlike/ |
| 21:25:49 | Watusimoto | I can see some future uses, but they;re mostly speculation at this point. |
| 21:26:16 | Watusimoto | I think I'm more a monlithic binary kind of guy, as opposed to a cloud of parts person |
| 21:26:28 | c_korn | e.g. /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsqlite3.so.0.8.6 |
| 21:27:38 | raptor | ONE BINARY TO RULE THEM ALL |
| 21:28:10 | Watusimoto | so if sqlite fixes a bug, would they re-release libsqlite3.so.0.8.6 or create libsqlite3.so.0.8.7 |
| 21:28:21 | raptor | backport the fix |
| 21:28:27 | Watusimoto | to libsqlite3.so.0.8.6 |
| 21:28:31 | raptor | yep |
| 21:28:51 | Watusimoto | so libsqlite3.so.0.8.6 will always have a guranteed interface |
| 21:29:00 | raptor | yep |
| 21:29:10 | Watusimoto | hence (less) .so hell |
| 21:29:16 | raptor | yep |
| 21:29:30 | c_korn | this is the idea. there is also symbol file in each package where you can see which versions introduced a symbol |
| 21:29:40 | raptor | anyways, this is all fun stuff - soo... back to bitfighter! |
| 21:29:44 | raptor | :) |
| 21:29:50 | Watusimoto | ha |
| 21:30:05 | raptor | so what I can do is: remove sqlite completely or |
| 21:30:18 | c_korn | so assume you have sqlite 0.8.7 on your system but only use functions from 0.8.6 then the dependency is sqlite >= 0.8.6 |
| 21:31:00 | Watusimoto | but then you'd need either 0.8.6 or be sure that 0.8.7 was compatible |
| 21:31:22 | raptor | or i don't know just ifdef it out on Linux or something.. |
| 21:31:38 | raptor | probably can with the build system |
| 21:31:57 | raptor | i wish more people had responded to my 'top 3 balance changes' thread.... |
| 21:32:28 | Watusimoto | For me the question is what would be easier to add it back later if we decided to do so, vs. the cost of carrying the extra (temporarily) unused functionality around that we might never actually use |
| 21:32:56 | Watusimoto | (they'll respond, give it time... the essayists are probably still crafting their 5page responses) |
| 21:33:00 | c_korn | yeah, you can always force sqlite 0.8.7 manually. but the packaging system is so clever to figuere out that it may not necessarily required ;) |
| 21:33:34 | raptor | it doesn't hurt anything right now other than added a few seconds (maybe more on windows/mac) for compiling, and have a size increase of like .5-1 MB |
| 21:34:20 | Watusimoto | well, I completely understand the advantages/disadvantages of static v. dynamic linking... I just think it should be the developer's choice based on their set of tradeoffs |
| 21:35:12 | Watusimoto | raptor: how hard would it be to ifdef it out on all platforms? |
| 21:35:31 | raptor | Watusimoto: i know of know way to conditionally include the library in a vc++ project |
| 21:35:33 | c_korn | yeah, but it is not a Debian policy. so even if an app links statically the Debian maintainer must patch to source for dynamic linking. to ensure that a fix in the lib affects all apps which uses it. |
| 21:35:40 | raptor | I can do it in CMake |
| 21:35:52 | raptor | i don't know how in Xcode either... |
| 21:36:31 | koda_ | Cmake <3 |
| 21:36:40 | raptor | oh hi koda_ |
| 21:36:45 | koda_ | Hai |
| 21:36:47 | raptor | yes cmake has been nice... |
| 21:36:55 | koda_ | But...? |
| 21:37:05 | Watusimoto | ok, well uh... remove it from cmake, and we'll just let it ride in win and mac for the moment |
| 21:37:22 | raptor | koda_: Little_Apple and I have been having a hard time coming up with a useful interface for a game that uses dual-axes controls and several other buttons, on mobile platforms... |
| 21:37:30 | Watusimoto | then if we decide to use it in the future, we can deal with the debian issue then |
| 21:37:49 | c_korn | (not that I care about that policy too much … especially regarding games) |
| 21:37:55 | raptor | would you have any ideas? we've heard of virtual joysticks, but we need other buttons to fire, change weapon, etc |
| 21:37:57 | Watusimoto | c_korn: :-) |
| 21:38:30 | koda_ | raptor: Let me get on a real keyboard and then we talk |
| 21:38:36 | raptor | heh |
| 21:38:38 | raptor | ok |
| 21:39:45 | Watusimoto | http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/3-dual-joystick-shooters-free-iphone/ |
| 21:39:55 | Watusimoto | maybe one of these has a good interface |
| 21:40:01 | Watusimoto | if only I had an iphone |
| 21:40:32 | raptor | yeah so you could curse it when it doesn't let you do what you want? |
| 21:41:01 | raptor | huh - looks like fire buttons in the middle of joystick.. |
| 21:47:29 | Watusimoto | so looking at a few games on youtube, the standard seems to be two virtual sticks in either corner |
| 21:47:47 | Little_Apple | but how would you control modules? |
| 21:52:45 | Watusimoto | see here around 2:15 |
| 21:52:46 | Watusimoto | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsX22O4ZQtA |
| 21:52:49 | Watusimoto | for a good example |
| 21:52:54 | Watusimoto | modules |
| 21:52:55 | Watusimoto | yeah |
| 21:53:39 | Watusimoto | maybe steer with your index finger, activate mdoule buttons with middle finger |
| 21:54:05 | Watusimoto | maybe have a toggle rather than a hold down to activate kind of thing |
| 21:54:53 | Little_Apple | who plays with their index fingers.... |
| 21:57:35 | raptor | yeah... that's reserved for picking your nose |
| 21:58:53 | Watusimoto | if all you have is your thumbs... |
| 21:59:06 | Watusimoto | there's some cool stick on joysticks that might work |
| 22:00:40 | Little_Apple | i actually own one |
| 22:00:51 | Little_Apple | aaaaand its pretty awfuk |
| 22:00:59 | Little_Apple | awful* |
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| 22:03:55 | Watusimoto | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1duiy1biH1o |
| 22:04:07 | Watusimoto | this one shows a playstation emulator |
| 22:04:25 | Watusimoto | 2:40 shows a good screenshot of how theyve arranged all the buttons |
| 22:04:36 | Watusimoto | not (at all) sure this woudl work for us |
| 22:04:47 | Watusimoto | but it does have shoulder buttons and such |
| 22:06:32 | Watusimoto | Little_Apple: which joystick do you have? |
| 22:06:40 | Watusimoto | (i.e. the sucky one) |
| 22:06:47 | Little_Apple | the thinkgeek joystick-it for iphone |
| 22:07:34 | Little_Apple | its a great concept but it just doesnt work that well |
| 22:07:57 | Watusimoto | theone that looks like a big metalic stick? |
| 22:08:03 | Little_Apple | yep |
| 22:08:06 | Little_Apple | just smaller |
| 22:08:16 | Little_Apple | the ipad version is much bigger and probably works better |
| 22:11:44 | raptor | we could just disable modules for mobile users |
| 22:11:53 | raptor | problem... solved! |
| 22:13:52 | | c_korn has joined |
| 22:14:05 | raptor | ok, added the /shuffle bug to the running list |
| 22:14:10 | raptor | time for balance changes! |
| 22:14:11 | Watusimoto | these things called "fling" look like the better way to go |
| 22:15:41 | raptor | ? |
| 22:17:55 | Watusimoto | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46F6Z-GGH3c |
| 22:18:00 | Watusimoto | to pick one at random |
| 22:19:05 | raptor | i think this is a good change |
| 22:19:13 | | BFLogBot Commit: 34ba484376d1 | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Reduce phaser damage slightly, effectively making it take 6 shots to kill instead of 5 [*] |
| 22:19:33 | Little_Apple | yea fling looks much nicer than what i have |
| 22:20:37 | raptor | neat! |
| 22:21:01 | raptor | of course the future is to actually have something more than a flat screen to interface with |
| 22:21:50 | raptor | like this: http://www.tactustechnology.com/index.html |
| 22:25:35 | Watusimoto | nice video... probably still a ways from commercial use |
| 22:25:43 | raptor | yes |
| 22:33:51 | | bobdaduck has joined |
| 22:34:28 | bobdaduck | Goodmorning |
| 22:34:28 | bobdaduck | gents' |
| 22:34:57 | Little_Apple | swag. |
| 22:35:02 | raptor | mornin' |
| 22:36:15 | raptor | our projectile::idle method is a mess |
| 22:36:42 | raptor | the trick is to get bouncers to extend their range on bounce, but not do it indefinitely |
| 22:42:54 | bobdaduck | CONTEST PARTY IN TWENTY MINUTES GUYS |
| 22:43:11 | Little_Apple | yup |
| 22:46:58 | raptor | I am disappointed in the low response for my balance changes.. I like the responses that are there, though |
| 22:49:05 | raptor | bobdaduck: lamp made concept art somewhere? |
| 22:49:13 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 22:49:21 | bobdaduck | uh |
| 22:50:42 | raptor | the calm before the storm? |
| 22:56:42 | raptor | haha |
| 22:56:54 | Watusimoto | I'd take that as a yes |
| 22:56:55 | raptor | i made bouncers last 100 ms longer with every bounce |
| 22:57:09 | raptor | you can 'charge' them up with shield against a wall |
| 22:57:17 | raptor | once let go, they last like 12 seconds |
| 22:58:24 | raptor | Watusimoto: can you think of some 'smart' way to extend the life of a bounce once bounced? maybe give it a ratio of life left? |
| 22:59:01 | bobdaduck | Lamp didn't realy make concept art for suns |
| 22:59:05 | bobdaduck | he just made this crazy level. |
| 22:59:22 | bobdaduck | kaen test |
| 22:59:36 | raptor | 35seconds and bouncer is still going... |
| 22:59:46 | raptor | 45 second life... |
| 23:00:15 | Watusimoto | every time it bounces... just add a bit of life juice to it |
| 23:00:40 | Watusimoto | I'm sure there's some nuance that I don't see... because if there wasn't, you'd never ask that question! |
| 23:01:11 | raptor | adding 100ms to life after each bounce isn't enough for normal usage |
| 23:01:19 | raptor | but you can charge bouncers against a wall |
| 23:02:13 | Watusimoto | what do you mean charge against a wall? |
| 23:02:35 | raptor | use shield against a wall with bouncer to add loads of time to it |
| 23:02:46 | Watusimoto | we probably want to have a cap somehow |
| 23:03:28 | Watusimoto | but I see now the problem... people will try to bank their shots to extend the range. But maybe that's a good thing |
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| 23:53:47 | bobdaduck | raptor check this |
