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| 08:59:22 | raptor | good day |
| 09:00:05 | bobdaduck | GOODAI. |
| 09:07:37 | kaen | hello! |
| 09:07:57 | kaen | I don't know why I added an exclamation point |
| 09:08:01 | kaen | too much coffee |
| 09:15:06 | bobdaduck | ! |
| 09:15:24 | raptor | watusimoto: you got a response from the SDL mailing list! (which is good because if you don't within about 2 days, you might never get one) |
| 09:22:40 | | Watusimoto_ Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 09:23:11 | watusimoto | I got two responses |
| 09:23:18 | watusimoto | one useful, one less so |
| 09:23:43 | watusimoto | the useful one, though, looks really good |
| 09:23:53 | watusimoto | and suggests a completely differnt way to manage the joysticks |
| 09:24:03 | watusimoto | which I can play with tonight |
| 09:24:15 | raptor | ok |
| 09:24:32 | raptor | just be careful with any SDL1.2 vs SDL2 code |
| 09:24:34 | watusimoto | dont know if you read it, but there are events fired when sticks get added or removed |
| 09:24:42 | raptor | oh really? |
| 09:24:45 | | raptor goes to read |
| 09:24:53 | watusimoto | really |
| 09:37:20 | kaen | yep. I think it's time for a two-week break from the news |
| 09:38:17 | bobdaduck | Why's that? |
| 09:39:29 | watusimoto | the news is currently on auto-repeat |
| 09:39:38 | kaen | the last week or so has gone from honest policy discussion to vitriolic politicking |
| 09:39:41 | kaen | and yes, auto-repeat |
| 09:39:55 | kaen | I've read the same three stories like a dozen times from different sources |
| 09:40:15 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 09:40:22 | kaen | both sides are making sure to not let a good crisis go to waste |
| 09:40:29 | bobdaduck | I didn't realize the news was worth watching in the first place? |
| 09:41:23 | kaen | it's good to know what's going on |
| 09:41:55 | bobdaduck | AND YOU EXPECT THE NEWS TO TELL YOU THAT? |
| 09:42:01 | kaen | :) |
| 09:42:14 | watusimoto | my non-partisan viewpoint is that the republicans are stuck and need a way out without appearing to give in |
| 09:42:34 | watusimoto | (I'll spare you my partisan viewpoint :-) |
| 09:43:05 | kaen | that's a very good assessment |
| 09:43:22 | watusimoto | but... I think there is a way out for them that will give them the appearance of victory |
| 09:43:35 | watusimoto | and perhaps some elements of a real victory |
| 09:43:45 | kaen | as a right-ish leaning guy, I have no problem saying they've been writing checks their votes can't cash |
| 09:44:28 | watusimoto | if they can restart the "grand bargain" talks with obama and create a large overall deal wherein the promise to destroy obamacare can be forgotten |
| 09:44:33 | kaen | and it's kind of disgusting me how they've held the government hostage and used these guerrilla congressional tactics to dismantle legislation that was passed and upheld by the court |
| 09:44:48 | watusimoto | because if they stick to the kill obamacare rhetoric they cannot possibly succeed |
| 09:44:53 | kaen | word. |
| 09:45:11 | watusimoto | the interesting thing is what you just said |
| 09:45:29 | watusimoto | currently, congress has voted to pay gov't employees, even while they won't let them work |
| 09:45:34 | watusimoto | where is the logic in that? |
| 09:45:38 | watusimoto | fiscal or otherwise? |
| 09:45:57 | kaen | political logic |
| 09:46:29 | kaen | the GOP is already on the hook for stone-walling the appropriations, they dont' want a bunch of pissed-off federal workers on top of that |
| 09:46:57 | kaen | and democrats want to make it clear that they're trying to keep things rolling |
| 09:47:04 | watusimoto | I can see how dems and moderate reps could support that (doing right by the innocent victims of blah blah), but I don't see how the tea party guys can suppor thtat. |
| 09:47:19 | watusimoto | yet the tea party guys all supported it as well, I think |
| 09:47:23 | kaen | that's a good point |
| 09:47:44 | watusimoto | how do you be fiscally responsible when you are paying for nothing? |
| 09:47:50 | kaen | that's very contrary to the tea part platform |
| 09:47:50 | kaen | hehe |
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| 09:48:19 | kaen | I think even those guys are starting to feel the heat |
| 09:48:23 | watusimoto | so you are right. turn off the news and come back in a week. probably nothing will happen before the debt ceiling votes start |
| 09:48:28 | kaen | yep |
| 09:48:45 | bobdaduck | My impression is that the entire thing is just a performance and doesn't necessarily connect to the actual state of things at all? |
| 09:48:59 | watusimoto | I heard an interesting analysis, though... |
| 09:49:26 | kaen | oh no, it's a perfect reflection of the state of things. it shows that political posturing is more important than congress actually functioning as it was intended. |
| 09:50:00 | watusimoto | boehner could "betray" the tea partiers once before being deposed (betray by voting on a a "clean" bill) |
| 09:50:01 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 09:50:28 | kaen | I think he's already said something to the effect that he intends to do that |
| 09:50:36 | watusimoto | so if he voted on the cr as dems are asking him to, the vote would pass, but he would no longer be speaker |
| 09:50:51 | kaen | whoa, didn't hear about a deposition |
| 09:50:57 | watusimoto | and if he isn't speaker, someone more to the right would be speaker |
| 09:51:20 | kaen | does the TP really have that much presence in the house? I didn't realize they had so many seats |
| 09:51:33 | watusimoto | so, this theory goes, boehner is saving his one vote for the debt ceiling, which he realizes has to pass |
| 09:51:51 | watusimoto | he may lose his job, but at least we won't default |
| 09:52:00 | raptor | oh boy, politics! |
| 09:52:04 | watusimoto | who knows if its true, but that;s the analysis |
| 09:52:06 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 09:52:13 | kaen | very interesting |
| 09:52:26 | watusimoto | I guess we'll know in a week! |
| 09:52:30 | kaen | boehner would really impress me if he martyred himself like that |
| 09:52:36 | watusimoto | me too, to be honest |
| 09:52:57 | watusimoto | I really have a hard time reading him |
| 09:53:37 | raptor | finished teh joystick e-mail - note that the GameController API is SDL2-only |
| 09:54:08 | watusimoto | I want to know if the house votes for speaker, does everyone vote, or only the majority party? because if the dems supported a moderate republican, it would seem to be to their advantage |
| 09:54:18 | watusimoto | raptor: yes, I suspected as much |
| 09:54:35 | raptor | ok, now to the politics! |
| 09:54:37 | watusimoto | raptor: tell me again why we need to support sdl 1.x |
| 09:54:42 | raptor | watusimoto: Linux |
| 09:54:51 | kaen | Debian 7 doesn't even have an SDL2 package |
| 09:55:33 | watusimoto | well, if the joystick crashes only happen on windows, we could ifdef that bit out and make it sdl2 only and everything would be ebtter |
| 09:55:45 | watusimoto | windows would use the new code, linux the old code until sdl caught up |
| 09:56:09 | raptor | if Little_Apple shows up, we should have him test OSX |
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| 09:56:40 | raptor | doesn't the whole idea of a 'continuing resolution' bother anyone else? |
| 09:56:51 | raptor | i mean, where on earth is the formal budget |
| 09:56:54 | raptor | ?? |
| 09:57:01 | watusimoto | it's better than shutdown, worse than just passing a budget |
| 09:57:23 | raptor | and when was the last time there was a budget? |
| 09:57:30 | watusimoto | the problem is if the formal budget defunds obamacare, there will never be a formal budget |
| 09:57:43 | watusimoto | there is no way around this |
| 09:57:59 | raptor | isn't that the prerogative of the house? |
| 09:58:00 | watusimoto | it will never ever ever pass the senate or get a sig from obama |
| 09:58:04 | watusimoto | never never never |
| 09:58:20 | watusimoto | so... unless the house can pass a budget with obamacare, there will be no bueget |
| 09:58:38 | watusimoto | and if there is no budget, we need a cr or else the gov't shuts down |
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| 09:58:48 | raptor | I'm speaking more along the lines of what *should* happen, you know, with the people (via representatives) controlling the budget |
| 09:59:06 | raptor | a CR, to me, is scary - it consolidates power way too much |
| 09:59:11 | raptor | the idea of CRs |
| 09:59:17 | watusimoto | the house should pass a budget that has some prospect of being acceptable, and they should do it on time |
| 09:59:26 | watusimoto | I think everyone would agree with that |
| 09:59:51 | raptor | yes - but 'acceptable' to whom? |
| 10:00:01 | raptor | the senate? the president? |
| 10:00:02 | watusimoto | to the senate and the president, who also need to sign off |
| 10:00:25 | watusimoto | if the situation were the opposite, if dems controlled the house, and reps controled the senate and whitehouse |
| 10:01:13 | raptor | so... where on earth is the idea that the people controll the budget, then? |
| 10:01:15 | watusimoto | and the dems only passed budgets that required.. what? trying to think of something absolutely impossible for republicans to accept |
| 10:01:27 | raptor | i don't care about sides in this |
| 10:01:28 | watusimoto | the people control the house |
| 10:01:48 | watusimoto | every two years they vote |
| 10:02:26 | watusimoto | (I agree about sides, just trying to illustrate the absurdidy of making repeal of obamacare a condition for passing a budget) |
| 10:03:00 | raptor | yes, ok - maybe I'm too stuck in ideology of our original system, than how our degenerate one actually operates |
| 10:03:05 | watusimoto | the people have chose their represenattives; and the representatives can't decide what to do |
| 10:03:20 | raptor | seems liek they've decided to defund the ACA |
| 10:04:20 | raptor | anyways, papa always taught me to not spend more than I earn... |
| 10:04:30 | watusimoto | that's one possible iterpretation; I prefer to think that the house does not well represent mainstream americans (who may be somewhat opposed to aca, but are not as adamant as the house is) |
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| 10:04:46 | jimmythesquid | Hello? |
| 10:04:56 | watusimoto | hi |
| 10:04:58 | raptor | and it bothers me that there aren't enough of those type of people in our leadership |
| 10:05:02 | raptor | hello jimmythesquid |
| 10:05:39 | jimmythesquid | I'm looking for " kaen_" or anyone from the development team. |
| 10:05:51 | watusimoto | we're all here |
| 10:05:52 | raptor | uh oh kaen, you've been found |
| 10:07:13 | watusimoto | in any event, we don't get to rechoose our reps until 2014, so we need to hope the ones we've got sort this mess out |
| 10:07:17 | bobdaduck | ITS ABOUT THE NEW WEBSITE MASH UP |
| 10:07:18 | bobdaduck | YAYYY |
| 10:07:51 | raptor | jimmythesquid: watusimoto, kaen, and raptor are the devs; others here are highly opinionated critics who can contribute :) |
| 10:08:19 | raptor | oh yeah, watusimoto, if youdidn't see: http://www.reddit.com/r/freedesign/comments/1nvnmb/request_mockup_image_needed_for_open_source_2d/ |
| 10:08:29 | jimmythesquid | Hi everyone then, |
| 10:08:39 | jimmythesquid | Yeah, its about the website. |
| 10:09:15 | raptor | we're all free to answer questions |
| 10:10:17 | jimmythesquid | I'm going to work on some mock ups for you, I was wondering if you could provide me with some screen shots slightly different to the ones posted / on the site. |
| 10:10:23 | watusimoto | I didn't see that |
| 10:11:06 | raptor | jimmythesquid: what type of screenshots? |
| 10:11:28 | raptor | there's some more here: http://bitfighter.org/screenshots |
| 10:11:32 | jimmythesquid | Is it possible to get some screen shots without the HUD? |
| 10:11:50 | bobdaduck | No. |
| 10:11:53 | raptor | hmmm.... good question |
| 10:12:00 | raptor | if we hack the game enough :) |
| 10:12:11 | bobdaduck | However, since they haven't thought of that, they'll now proceed to add it as an option. |
| 10:12:12 | jimmythesquid | I looked through the ones on this site also. |
| 10:12:25 | jimmythesquid | I especially like this one. |
| 10:12:27 | jimmythesquid | http://i.imgur.com/YYsJlmf.png |
| 10:12:29 | watusimoto | I could add a build option tonight to turn off hud when making screenshots |
| 10:12:42 | raptor | ooo... that... |
| 10:13:04 | watusimoto | that's nice, as is the one raptor used on his most recnet mockup. Let me find that url |
| 10:13:18 | raptor | that might be a good idea... |
| 10:13:35 | raptor | watusimoto: I uploaded it here, from the editor: http://bitfighter.org/pleiades/ |
| 10:13:51 | watusimoto | Yeah, the bastion one |
| 10:15:00 | watusimoto | I also used that in portrait format; cropping some of these can be pretty cool too |
| 10:15:01 | watusimoto | http://media.desura.com/images/games/1/21/20792/boxshot.png |
| 10:15:27 | bobdaduck | but that's like such an ugly level... |
| 10:15:53 | kaen | hi jimmythesquid ! |
| 10:16:04 | kaen | sorry I was making pancakes |
| 10:16:38 | raptor | I need to redo that level and make it actually playable |
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| 10:16:49 | jimmythesquid_ | Sorry, browser crashed. |
| 10:18:23 | jimmythesquid_ | Everyone still here? |
| 10:18:30 | kaen | yep, we can definitely get you some better screenshots |
| 10:18:43 | kaen | the ones I posted aren't even anti-aliased because my graphics card is terrible |
| 10:19:55 | jimmythesquid_ | Okay, well these will do for now, |
| 10:20:01 | jimmythesquid_ | Just for a mock up. |
| 10:20:08 | kaen | right, right |
| 10:21:34 | jimmythesquid_ | Okay, well I'm going to get to work. I'll leave this open and send you stuff as I go. |
| 10:22:29 | watusimoto | thanks, jimmythesquid_ |
| 10:22:54 | kaen | okay great, thanks for your time jimmythesquid_ |
| 10:23:06 | watusimoto | and kaen, thanks for posting that reddit message |
| 10:23:17 | kaen | :) |
| 10:24:08 | kaen | I figured we'd been through enough programmer-designed layouts to warrant asking for outside help |
| 10:27:40 | jimmythesquid_ | by the way, you mentioned in the reddit post you wanted it to be a responsive website? |
| 10:28:30 | jimmythesquid_ | What size would you like it to max out at? |
| 10:29:00 | jimmythesquid_ | Do you want a snap point for mobile or are you not too interested in mobile traffic as its a desktop based game? |
| 10:29:48 | kaen | yes, we're not very interested in mobile particularly, and I don't have a specific max size in mind. as long as it's readable on a mobile browser, that will do |
| 10:29:55 | kaen | beyond that, I defer to your creative judgement |
| 10:30:02 | kaen | judgment* |
| 10:30:15 | bobdaduck | I occasionally look at bitfighter forums from my phone but its not a big thing or something we should focus on |
| 10:31:10 | jimmythesquid_ | Okay, I'll have the standard width of 960 and just let it scale down if the browser window is smaller? |
| 10:32:09 | kaen | sounds great |
| 10:32:52 | jimmythesquid_ | Okay, back in a bit. |
| 10:38:06 | watusimoto | over and out |
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| 11:54:10 | Nothing_Much | Anti-Aliasing in bitfighter? :O |
| 11:54:51 | raptor | it snuck in with 016 |
| 11:55:37 | Nothing_Much | oh my |
| 11:55:47 | Nothing_Much | how does one enable that? |
| 11:56:45 | kaen | it should be on automatically |
| 11:57:18 | kaen | all it really does is smooth the lines of the game objects and stroked fonts |
| 11:57:25 | Nothing_Much | oh man, kaen, what's your graphics card then? if my GMA 950 can handle the AA, what's yours? |
| 11:57:26 | kaen | my graphics drivers just don't support it |
| 11:57:31 | Nothing_Much | ohh |
| 11:57:51 | kaen | yeah, if I use fglrx it works but the performance for everything else is terrible |
| 11:58:11 | Nothing_Much | wait a sec. |
| 11:58:22 | Nothing_Much | kaen, what's your specific graphics card? |
| 11:58:44 | Nothing_Much | and which distro? |
| 11:59:07 | kaen | RS880M [Mobility Radeon HD 4100] |
| 11:59:11 | kaen | on debian 7 |
| 12:00:05 | kaen | it's implemented but off by default in the radeon drivers |
| 12:00:16 | kaen | and I don't care enough to build them myself |
| 12:00:17 | jimmythesquid_ | Hello again. |
| 12:00:21 | kaen | hello hello |
| 12:00:27 | Nothing_Much | Consider- |
| 12:00:32 | jimmythesquid_ | I've pretty much finished on the first mock up. |
| 12:00:37 | Nothing_Much | Hi jimmythesquid_ |
| 12:00:49 | kaen | cool! |
| 12:01:04 | jimmythesquid_ | Want some preamble or shall I just flop out the images? |
| 12:01:45 | kaen | hehe let's see the images :) |
| 12:02:16 | kaen | I'll keep the stock this-is-a-rough-draft preamble in mind |
| 12:02:16 | jimmythesquid_ | Actually, I feel the need for preamble or maybe they won't make much sense. |
| 12:02:19 | kaen | ok |
| 12:04:19 | jimmythesquid_ | (insert this-is-a-rough-draft preamble) but the basic idea is that the background changes, showing the different game types and giving you an idea of how the game is. So, the backgrounds and accompanying text with change every few seconds to show a different game type. |
| 12:04:52 | Nothing_Much | That sounds neat |
| 12:04:55 | kaen | ok, gotcha |
| 12:05:05 | jimmythesquid_ | http://georgepayne.co.uk/Images/BITFIGHTER-Mock-1.jpg |
| 12:05:12 | kaen | that's a really good idea, definitely better than anything we've come up with so far |
| 12:05:19 | jimmythesquid_ | http://georgepayne.co.uk/Images/BITFIGHTER-Mock-2.jpg |
| 12:05:21 | bobdaduck | oooh |
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| 12:05:39 | jimmythesquid_ | http://georgepayne.co.uk/Images/BITFIGHTER-Mock-3.jpg |
| 12:06:15 | jimmythesquid_ | Also, a large "play now!" button leading to the download page. |
| 12:06:24 | bobdaduck | I like it |
| 12:06:32 | Nothing_Much | Nicely done! |
| 12:06:45 | kaen | love this direction |
| 12:06:56 | bobdaduck | I want to see more triangles because bitfighter |
| 12:06:59 | kaen | love the play now bit, we were missing a call to action |
| 12:07:05 | bobdaduck | but that's my only thought |
| 12:07:22 | jimmythesquid_ | I wanted to incorporate the star background, but the in game screen shots had so much HUD on them. |
| 12:07:35 | kaen | that's ok, I get the drift |
| 12:07:41 | jimmythesquid_ | I could have photoshopped it out but you get the idea from this. |
| 12:07:55 | kaen | I like how it leaves a lot of visual room for the bloggy parts, too |
| 12:08:26 | jimmythesquid_ | Is the green on black too much? |
| 12:08:36 | raptor | oh wo |
| 12:08:39 | raptor | wow |
| 12:08:44 | jimmythesquid_ | I kinda liked the old computer style but it is a little hard to read.. |
| 12:08:49 | raptor | that looks great! |
| 12:08:50 | kaen | there's probably some work to be done on the actual text styling, as well as incorporating the wordpress-specific bits -- |
| 12:09:06 | kaen | that's my only reservation, the green text |
| 12:09:28 | kaen | for the body, I mean. I like it for the header |
| 12:09:39 | raptor | i like the header |
| 12:09:43 | jimmythesquid_ | Yeah, me too. |
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| 12:09:46 | kaen | would probably even be good for the blog titles |
| 12:10:01 | kaen | and then maybe lightish-grey or something for the copy |
| 12:10:13 | kaen | oh, I forgot to mention something in the design brief |
| 12:10:28 | jimmythesquid_ | I felt like white was too bright up against the green titles. but yeah, lightish grey could work. |
| 12:10:39 | kaen | could you possibly work in a place for the online server/player listing? |
| 12:11:18 | kaen | somewhere to put the "servers online" and "players online" from http://bitfighter.org/ |
| 12:11:27 | kaen | preferably in or around the header |
| 12:12:11 | kaen | I think you've done a great job of boiling down the design and making it look more bitfighter-y, btw |
| 12:12:53 | jimmythesquid_ | Grey is good. |
| 12:13:14 | kaen | raptor, Watusimoto, any thoughts? |
| 12:13:24 | jimmythesquid_ | (for the text.) |
| 12:13:26 | kaen | actually wat might be sleeping |
| 12:13:51 | jimmythesquid_ | I had a question about the servers online bit actually, |
| 12:14:27 | jimmythesquid_ | Not so much a question. |
| 12:14:39 | jimmythesquid_ | I'll just upload a new file. hold on. |
| 12:15:14 | kaen | ok |
| 12:16:05 | raptor | i think it's great! I'm sure Watusimoto will miss the ships, though... :) |
| 12:16:10 | kaen | hehe |
| 12:16:25 | Watusimoto | this is a fresh look! |
| 12:16:49 | Watusimoto | so I take it the screenshot bits are a series of images/text blocks that advertise certain aspects of the game |
| 12:17:09 | kaen | particular game modes, in fact |
| 12:17:09 | Watusimoto | and they will cycle through on a timer and/or with a control? |
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| 12:17:34 | kaen | that's what it sounds like |
| 12:17:39 | kaen | standard jquery carousel |
| 12:17:43 | kaen | or similar. |
| 12:17:46 | jimmythesquid_ | Timer. |
| 12:17:49 | Watusimoto | The green is nice in the sense that it looks like an old terminal (or would with a different font) |
| 12:18:00 | Watusimoto | but it is a bit hard on the eyes :-) |
| 12:18:15 | jimmythesquid_ | could add a small control I guess but I don't feel its needed. |
| 12:18:23 | jimmythesquid_ | The info blocks are so short. |
| 12:18:36 | kaen | good point |
| 12:18:50 | Watusimoto | (re control, hard to say at this point, but I soemtimes want to go back when I see stuff like this... so perhaps a timer with a subtle control would be best... but that's a detail) |
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| 12:19:36 | Watusimoto | with the monochrome look, all the pages would have to be short |
| 12:20:06 | Watusimoto | so release notes, for example, would probably be shunted off to the wiki |
| 12:20:11 | Watusimoto | (which may not be bad) |
| 12:20:22 | jimmythesquid_ | http://georgepayne.co.uk/Images/BITFIGHTER-Mock-3-1.jpg |
| 12:20:27 | jimmythesquid_ | Here, |
| 12:20:34 | raptor | I was thinking about getting rid of the wiki... |
| 12:20:34 | jimmythesquid_ | The body is now grey |
| 12:20:35 | kaen | ah, much better! |
| 12:20:47 | kaen | raptor, we, uh, should really keep the wiki |
| 12:21:00 | kaen | but maybe surrender on the field of styling it |
| 12:21:22 | raptor | ok, discussion for some other week |
| 12:21:25 | kaen | srue |
| 12:21:26 | Watusimoto | gray is more readable but less cool |
| 12:21:26 | kaen | sure |
| 12:21:35 | jimmythesquid_ | And the online stuff is much subtler, shunted to the top left corner of the screen. |
| 12:21:46 | kaen | I think it's cool how much more readable it is :P |
| 12:21:54 | Watusimoto | :-) |
| 12:22:17 | Watusimoto | so with these big graphics, maybe we axe the screenshot section? |
| 12:22:26 | kaen | yes, I think so |
| 12:22:28 | raptor | yes |
| 12:22:51 | jimmythesquid_ | I like the grey personally, it picks out the important headers in green to skim. |
| 12:22:57 | kaen | yes |
| 12:22:57 | Watusimoto | and we could perhaps take our good video and feature it more prominently, and perhaps only link to the youtube channel? |
| 12:22:59 | jimmythesquid_ | Makes it less flat. |
| 12:23:14 | Watusimoto | (meaning the desura vid) |
| 12:23:56 | jimmythesquid_ | I would keep the screenshot page. |
| 12:24:20 | jimmythesquid_ | Though you have the big graphics, there is no HUD or real feel of the game. |
| 12:24:31 | Watusimoto | would you keep it as-is, or change the presentation (beyond the obvious making it green and look like thie front page) |
| 12:24:34 | kaen | another good point |
| 12:24:42 | jimmythesquid_ | Its usually the first place I head when I consider downloading a game. |
| 12:24:45 | Watusimoto | yes |
| 12:24:47 | Watusimoto | agreed |
| 12:24:56 | Watusimoto | screenshots are low commitment |
| 12:25:03 | Watusimoto | way to check the game |
| 12:25:34 | Watusimoto | where does play now go? to the downloads section? |
| 12:25:39 | jimmythesquid_ | Yeah |
| 12:25:48 | jimmythesquid_ | Thats why there is no downloads link. |
| 12:26:12 | Watusimoto | so the downloads section has lots of info on how to build for this and that platform, creating portable installs, etc. |
| 12:26:28 | Watusimoto | I think that type of info would be hard to make readable and presentable in this format |
| 12:27:44 | raptor | i think that type of info is hard to present in any dark theme |
| 12:27:50 | kaen | I think we should get really aggressive about pushing that sort of thing onto the wiki |
| 12:27:53 | Watusimoto | I think we do ok now |
| 12:27:57 | kaen | which should have a light theme... |
| 12:28:09 | jimmythesquid_ | Shall I build a downloads theme and you can have a look? |
| 12:28:10 | Watusimoto | my text editor is a dark theme, and I work in that all day |
| 12:28:17 | Watusimoto | sure |
| 12:28:24 | jimmythesquid_ | page* |
| 12:28:39 | Watusimoto | one thing I like is that front page really jumps out |
| 12:28:40 | kaen | as programmers, we've probably become adapted to dark, low-light environments... |
| 12:28:51 | kaen | :P |
| 12:29:12 | kaen | like those subterranean creatures in the Time Machine |
| 12:29:16 | jimmythesquid_ | Have have to say, I find the white on black of the current site a bit harsh on the eyes. |
| 12:29:36 | Watusimoto | I wear shades |
| 12:29:44 | kaen | heh |
| 12:29:45 | Watusimoto | so it's dim gray on black to me |
| 12:29:46 | jimmythesquid_ | But I don't have any :( |
| 12:29:53 | Watusimoto | I'll email you a pair |
| 12:30:03 | jimmythesquid_ | And flux is off for designing. |
| 12:30:41 | raptor | Watusimoto: just so I'm clear (and as I told kaen last night). My #1 wish is to get off drupal 6, and because of that, sadly, updating the theme would be required |
| 12:31:15 | raptor | that's my priority |
| 12:32:05 | Watusimoto | ok -- I am not yet sold on this new look, but I do see the potential |
| 12:32:16 | Watusimoto | it is very much more advanced in some ways than what other games have |
| 12:32:35 | Watusimoto | I see issues, but none seem insurmountable |
| 12:32:38 | kaen | what I really like about it is that it gives us visual room to show off bitfighter itself |
| 12:32:57 | Watusimoto | yes. the curvy wall screenshot is very visually arresting |
| 12:33:21 | kaen | rather than the flamboyant colors and chromey frame thing of the old design, which kind of hijacks your attention |
| 12:33:34 | Watusimoto | I think the front page stuff we've seen so far really presents the best we have in a way that is quite effective |
| 12:33:44 | raptor | i can read this new design much better than our current site |
| 12:33:48 | kaen | ditto |
| 12:33:53 | Watusimoto | really??? |
| 12:33:58 | Watusimoto | totally not me |
| 12:34:03 | raptor | oh yeah - our white on black is blinding |
| 12:34:04 | kaen | tons easier to scan |
| 12:34:10 | Watusimoto | really?? |
| 12:34:12 | kaen | and the contrast of the old one is almost painful |
| 12:34:22 | kaen | I think that to myself every time I have to read something |
| 12:34:23 | Watusimoto | what about amber instead of green? |
| 12:34:37 | Watusimoto | though green matches the logo |
| 12:34:41 | raptor | yeah... but I admittedly have always had a hard time with contrast (like with driving a car at night) |
| 12:34:50 | Watusimoto | and the primary color pallette of the game |
| 12:35:07 | Watusimoto | One thing I want to change is the Play Now button |
| 12:35:21 | Watusimoto | I like that it is set apart from the other controls |
| 12:35:25 | Watusimoto | and bigger |
| 12:36:07 | Watusimoto | but I'm wondering if we can situate it differently |
| 12:36:30 | Watusimoto | the horizontal line surrounding Bitfighter remind me of the horizon in Battlezone |
| 12:37:04 | Watusimoto | what if the who's on widget were in a green box in the upper right corner? |
| 12:37:38 | Watusimoto | raptor: do you think this layout is wordpressable? |
| 12:38:05 | kaen | as substitute raptor, I think so :) |
| 12:38:47 | kaen | I can almost do the markup and css off the top of my head |
| 12:38:53 | raptor | oh yes |
| 12:38:57 | jimmythesquid_ | Its in the top left so it wont interfere with the screenshot images. |
| 12:39:12 | raptor | thank you sub-raptor |
| 12:39:17 | jimmythesquid_ | as they flow to the right so there could be some ugly overlap. |
| 12:39:53 | | LordDVG has joined |
| 12:40:01 | kaen | I like it in the top left because it's easy to find if you're looking for it, but it's out of the way as jimmythesquid_ mentioned |
| 12:40:51 | kaen | it will look less like it's floating in mid-air once we get the screen-adaptive stuff done |
| 12:41:30 | raptor | kaen: right now I'm using bootstrap+wordpress |
| 12:41:38 | jimmythesquid_ | Also, a green box would have a lot of draw, when people first land on your site, you want all the eye draw to go to *name/logo *what it is *how to get it. |
| 12:41:43 | raptor | which is supposed to take care of all that adaptive silliness |
| 12:41:50 | kaen | raptor, perfect |
| 12:41:57 | kaen | I'm actually using bootstrap on pleiades, too |
| 12:42:03 | | LordDVG Quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 12:42:47 | kaen | it's not quite automagic, but it's a lot easier than doing it without tools |
| 12:43:10 | jimmythesquid_ | Servers and players online is a returning / regular feature, so it can have less draw as long as its position is consistent. |
| 12:43:10 | raptor | back in a bit.. |
| 12:45:57 | Watusimoto | jimmythesquid_: fair points |
| 12:46:14 | Watusimoto | I was just explaining to my son that the whole purpose of the site is to get people to get the game installed |
| 12:46:49 | Watusimoto | and perhaps I should keep that in mind :-) |
| 12:47:48 | Watusimoto | so stuff that works towards that should be front-and-center |
| 12:48:09 | jimmythesquid_ | uh huh. |
| 12:48:13 | Watusimoto | the play link, the screenshots and, of course, the big pix on the front page |
| 12:48:27 | Watusimoto | everything else can take a background role |
| 12:49:53 | Watusimoto | also, we need to use a pic of geowar on the front bage |
| 12:49:55 | Watusimoto | page |
| 12:50:00 | Watusimoto | that's a very visual looking level |
| 12:50:09 | Watusimoto | (not terribly great to play, but it looks awesome) |
| 12:52:49 | jimmythesquid_ | Send me a link |
| 12:53:08 | | bobdaduck has joined |
| 12:54:33 | Watusimoto | I'll have to do that a bit later, as my build is broken right now :-( |
| 12:55:00 | kaen | one sec, I'll do it |
| 12:55:02 | Watusimoto | kaen: I just found your dancing bitfighter ship that you used as the loading icon on pleiades |
| 12:55:08 | jimmythesquid_ | The source archive on the downloads page, that would be for developers or people wanting to play with the code, right? |
| 12:55:12 | Watusimoto | good god what were you thinking! |
| 12:55:39 | Watusimoto | jimmythesquid_: yes, or perhaps those that needed to build from source for some reason |
| 12:55:53 | jimmythesquid_ | Okay. |
| 12:55:55 | Watusimoto | but mostly for access to the code iteself |
| 12:57:21 | kaen | Watusimoto, I asked y'all for good spinner idea |
| 12:57:27 | kaen | no one spoke, so I used the zapdance :P |
| 12:57:54 | Watusimoto | well, it's funny, I'll give you that |
| 12:58:07 | Watusimoto | how do you upload a level, btw? |
| 12:58:14 | Watusimoto | /upload? |
| 12:58:19 | kaen | open it in the editor choose upload to db |
| 12:58:24 | Watusimoto | ah, ok |
| 12:58:31 | Watusimoto | does the screenshot get done automatically? |
| 12:58:33 | kaen | yep |
| 12:58:36 | Watusimoto | excellent |
| 12:58:48 | Watusimoto | my son is going to upload his levels soon |
| 12:58:58 | Watusimoto | he's very excited to get is content on the internets :-) |
| 12:59:04 | Watusimoto | his |
| 12:59:33 | kaen | http://bitfighter.org/pleiades/img/1381150737.png |
| 12:59:56 | kaen | if wat uploads it, that'll probably be better because it will having smoothing enabled |
| 13:00:06 | kaen | will have smoothing* |
| 13:00:43 | Watusimoto | for the final versino on the site, we'll probably need a cropped, higher res version of that |
| 13:01:02 | Watusimoto | which I can probably help with |
| 13:01:26 | kaen | I really like "bastion", too |
| 13:01:35 | Watusimoto | yes, it's a great looking level |
| 13:01:39 | kaen | and quartz's levels of course |
| 13:01:47 | kaen | the really curvy ones anyway |
| 13:01:47 | Watusimoto | it looks a bit like the city plan of Luxembourg, actually |
| 13:01:55 | Watusimoto | yes |
| 13:02:13 | Watusimoto | we'll probably need what... 8 or 9 visiaully arresting levels? |
| 13:02:53 | Watusimoto | how about the honeycomb one (not the one in pleiades, but the older one with forcefields between all the cells) |
| 13:02:59 | Watusimoto | the 3-team htf game, as I recall |
| 13:03:27 | kaen | I don't think I've seen it |
| 13:03:29 | | koda has joined |
| 13:03:32 | Watusimoto | I'm sure you have |
| 13:03:51 | Watusimoto | it looks soemwhat like the one in pleiades |
| 13:04:32 | Watusimoto | and we definitely need an animated pic of bobdaduck's crazy lsd level |
| 13:04:52 | Watusimoto | maybe last in the cycle, just to scare away anyone who watchs for that long |
| 13:05:01 | bobdaduck | the animated one, the stagnant one, or the april fools one? |
| 13:05:08 | bobdaduck | xDD |
| 13:05:25 | Watusimoto | the flashy disco dancing crazzzzy flashy color version |
| 13:05:34 | Watusimoto | did I mention it's flashy? |
| 13:05:59 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 13:06:37 | | Flynnn has joined |
| 13:06:52 | raptor | a bot got through! |
| 13:07:55 | raptor | slain! |
| 13:08:06 | bobdaduck | NOOOO |
| 13:08:13 | bobdaduck | I HAD JUST FINISHED REPLYING TO THE THREAD |
| 13:08:20 | raptor | oh, uhh... opps |
| 13:08:23 | raptor | oops |
| 13:09:55 | jimmythesquid_ | I'm back |
| 13:10:01 | jimmythesquid_ | Have a look at this: |
| 13:10:03 | jimmythesquid_ | http://georgepayne.co.uk/Images/BITFIGHTER-Mock-Downloads.jpg |
| 13:10:15 | jimmythesquid_ | I added the stars to see what you guys think. |
| 13:10:34 | jimmythesquid_ | Also, I stripped the downloads page of all the bloat. |
| 13:11:30 | kaen | wow that looks tons better with the stars |
| 13:11:35 | bobdaduck | The stars stopping at the stuff is kind of strange though? |
| 13:11:40 | jimmythesquid_ | If you want to know the release date and stuff it can be on the releases page mentioned. |
| 13:12:09 | Watusimoto | gotta run -- one quick thought about the stars |
| 13:12:36 | Watusimoto | without a bounding box around the green text the stars seem to srart and stop akwardly. |
| 13:13:07 | raptor | i like Stars! |
| 13:13:10 | bobdaduck | That's what I was trying to say |
| 13:13:42 | jimmythesquid_ | I think the stars will look better when they don't scroll with the text. |
| 13:13:57 | jimmythesquid_ | it will be more obviously a black box on stars. |
| 13:14:36 | bobdaduck | What about making the black box transparent so the stars go everywhere? |
| 13:14:46 | raptor | bobdaduck: you were against this last night |
| 13:15:07 | bobdaduck | Probably! |
| 13:15:13 | raptor | remember your moving text suggestion? :) |
| 13:15:22 | koda | Sooo I hear you no liek SDL joystick :) |
| 13:15:27 | bobdaduck | Oh |
| 13:15:28 | raptor | hi koda |
| 13:15:38 | bobdaduck | well that's because if you look at current bitpress |
| 13:15:40 | raptor | Watusimoto: has been having crashy issues in windows |
| 13:15:44 | bobdaduck | the stars stop around the box and it looks ugly |
| 13:15:56 | bobdaduck | also the moving text is still a good suggestion |
| 13:16:12 | kaen | needs more <marquee> |
| 13:16:20 | raptor | oh please no |
| 13:16:24 | koda | Hello |
| 13:16:26 | kaen | :P |
| 13:16:36 | koda | How are you guys? |
| 13:16:46 | raptor | doing good |
| 13:16:58 | kaen | great! |
| 13:17:11 | bobdaduck | Oh yeah! Could we fit the motd onto the front page? |
| 13:17:15 | bobdaduck | ...Would that work? |
| 13:17:16 | | Watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 13:17:29 | raptor | koda: we want to move away from drupal 6 on our website so we've enlisted some help at redesign... |
| 13:17:57 | koda | 6 |
| 13:17:59 | koda | It's already better than 5 |
| 13:18:07 | koda | (Which hw uses) |
| 13:18:12 | koda | Lotsa spam problems |
| 13:19:12 | koda | How are you doing the update? We are stuck with the forum and db |
| 13:19:32 | kaen | actually we're moving to wordpress |
| 13:19:58 | raptor | we use phpbb for forums |
| 13:20:13 | raptor | so it's only the main site and pages |
| 13:20:22 | raptor | HW is on drupal 5?? |
| 13:20:48 | kaen | drupal upgrades between major versions are notoriously difficult |
| 13:21:41 | kaen | there's a tutorial for 5->6 that has only twenty steps... |
| 13:22:40 | kaen | and if you want to go from e.g. 6 -> 8 you first have to upgrade to 7 |
| 13:22:41 | raptor | yeah... in fact, I even did the database upgrade from 6 to 7 once, it was nutso |
| 13:24:11 | jimmythesquid_ | Okay, |
| 13:24:20 | jimmythesquid_ | I have maybe fixed the stars. |
| 13:24:51 | koda | :( |
| 13:25:02 | koda | kaen: Can you link it? |
| 13:25:17 | kaen | https://drupal.org/node/340073 |
| 13:25:50 | koda | Thx |
| 13:26:03 | kaen | you bet :) |
| 13:29:51 | jimmythesquid_ | http://georgepayne.co.uk/Images/BITFIGHTER-Mock-Downloads2.jpg |
| 13:30:26 | raptor | how did you do that? |
| 13:30:37 | jimmythesquid_ | So the stars go up to the text but they have a black stroke around them so the stars won't come within 20px |
| 13:30:38 | raptor | div around each element? |
| 13:31:17 | jimmythesquid_ | You can do it in css, having a background stroke on text. |
| 13:31:19 | kaen | text-shadow ? |
| 13:31:24 | jimmythesquid_ | (I'm pretty sure) |
| 13:31:37 | kaen | not sure exactly what you mean, but yes it can be done |
| 13:32:06 | | Darrel Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 13:32:39 | kaen | ok, to be clear, did you stroke each character, or does each text element have a black background, jimmythesquid_ ? |
| 13:32:46 | | Darrel has joined |
| 13:33:18 | jimmythesquid_ | text-shadow can only stroke up to 1px |
| 13:33:28 | kaen | oops, nevermind, I need to read more thoroughly :P |
| 13:33:30 | jimmythesquid_ | (if I remember more correctly) |
| 13:33:39 | koda | Lol kaen I posted the guide in #hedgewars and they are proposing bitcoins for the upgrade :p |
| 13:33:40 | kaen | no, you can do all sorts of crazy stuff wit hit |
| 13:33:51 | raptor | hahaha koda |
| 13:33:52 | kaen | rofl koda |
| 13:34:23 | koda | I dont think they are joking :p |
| 13:34:31 | bobdaduck | wait whattt |
| 13:34:32 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 13:34:50 | raptor | you could just start anew with wordpress + phpbb! |
| 13:35:13 | jimmythesquid_ | something like -webkit-text-stroke-width: 20px; -webkit-text-stroke-color: black; |
| 13:35:14 | koda | They don t want to do that, too much contents in the forums |
| 13:35:24 | jimmythesquid_ | might do it. |
| 13:35:41 | jimmythesquid_ | but you need to set the stroke to behind the text, not centred. |
| 13:35:51 | jimmythesquid_ | I don't remember how to do that though. |
| 13:35:56 | koda | kaen: Wanna take a stab at it? :) |
| 13:36:23 | kaen | koda, I have no use for bitcoins since they shut down silk road :P |
| 13:36:28 | raptor | ha |
| 13:37:00 | kaen | jimmythesquid_, ok, that's no problem |
| 13:38:05 | koda | kaen: They you could do it for a lot of hedgehogs' gratitude |
| 13:38:20 | kaen | ok I can give it a crack |
| 13:39:04 | jimmythesquid_ | Oh, I just googled, |
| 13:39:19 | koda | kaen: Join #hedgewars |
| 13:39:21 | jimmythesquid_ | You can't do an outside stroke in css. only centered. |
| 13:39:41 | kaen | jimmythesquid_, it's centered and outside |
| 13:39:45 | kaen | unless I misunderstand you |
| 13:41:16 | Nothing_Much | What'd I miss? |
| 13:42:07 | jimmythesquid_ | "there is currently no option to set the alignment to the inside or outside of the shape. Unfortunately this makes it much less usable, as no matter what now the stroke interferes with the shape of the letter destroying the original type designers intent." |
| 13:42:14 | jimmythesquid_ | - from the internet. |
| 13:42:24 | jimmythesquid_ | So maybe I should find another way. |
| 13:45:48 | jimmythesquid_ | What are your thoughts on this: |
| 13:45:49 | jimmythesquid_ | http://georgepayne.co.uk/Images/BITFIGHTER-Mock-Downloads3.jpg |
| 13:49:44 | bobdaduck | still seems a bit "floating black square" |
| 13:49:50 | bobdaduck | oh no wait |
| 13:49:54 | bobdaduck | that was dust on my monitor |
| 13:50:00 | raptor | yeah, that's OK though |
| 13:50:04 | bobdaduck | oh wait |
| 13:50:08 | raptor | i think having stationary stars will |
| 13:50:10 | bobdaduck | that was just the stars being darker |
| 13:50:19 | raptor | be good |
| 13:50:33 | raptor | ooo, yeah... |
| 13:50:38 | raptor | i like the transparency |
| 13:50:43 | raptor | that's a possibility, too |
| 13:51:14 | raptor | I have to run, back later |
| 13:51:19 | | raptor Quit () |
| 13:53:11 | jimmythesquid_ | The transparency breaks up the edge without the stars interfering with the text. |
| 13:54:11 | | Flynnn Quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) |
| 13:59:34 | kaen | that latest one is actually exactly what I had in mind |
| 14:07:08 | jimmythesquid_ | What would you like me to do next? |
| 14:08:02 | kaen | oh, raptor left |
| 14:08:04 | kaen | hmm |
| 14:08:12 | kaen | well, how do you feel about the design? |
| 14:08:36 | kaen | I know art is actually never complete, but do you think it's where you want it? |
| 14:08:38 | jimmythesquid_ | What do you mean? |
| 14:09:05 | jimmythesquid_ | oh right |
| 14:09:06 | kaen | when I implement it, I want it to be something you can proudly point to as an example of your work |
| 14:09:18 | kaen | so if you think it's ready, then I'll get cracking on wordpress-ifying it |
| 14:10:07 | jimmythesquid_ | Well, I would need the screenshots to make proper backgrounds. |
| 14:10:20 | kaen | ok |
| 14:10:51 | kaen | as you've probably gathered, raptor and I are head-over-heels for it |
| 14:10:58 | kaen | and wat is onboard as far as I can tell |
| 14:11:11 | kaen | so we'll get you better screenshots to work with |
| 14:11:13 | | Watusimoto has joined |
| 14:11:15 | bobdaduck | I still like my idea! |
| 14:11:15 | jimmythesquid_ | So when you can do HUDless screenshots and you send me some nice ones I can get on with that. |
| 14:11:17 | kaen | anything else you need from us? |
| 14:11:23 | kaen | ok great |
| 14:12:05 | kaen | bobdaduck, what was your idea? |
| 14:12:19 | bobdaduck | Uh....... |
| 14:12:39 | bobdaduck | Have all the words and pictures and stuff float around the screen randomly and you can interact with them with the mouse. |
| 14:13:09 | kaen | I already knew that I didn't need to know just by the length of that ellipsis |
| 14:13:51 | jimmythesquid_ | I don't know if it would be possible, but could you make a screenshot that takes a high res of the entire level with no stars and a transparent backgound? |
| 14:14:01 | kaen | yep |
| 14:14:03 | jimmythesquid_ | (and no HUD. |
| 14:14:27 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 14:14:41 | kaen | maybe not transparent, but black is only used for the background so you should be able to select-by-color safely |
| 14:14:58 | Watusimoto | any new screenshots since I left :-) |
| 14:15:38 | kaen | http://georgepayne.co.uk/Images/BITFIGHTER-Mock-Downloads2.jpg http://georgepayne.co.uk/Images/BITFIGHTER-Mock-Downloads3.jpg |
| 14:15:40 | jimmythesquid_ | Because you want the stars to stay still but the screenshots should scroll with the level. |
| 14:15:51 | kaen | also I got conscripted to upgrade hedgewars' drupal :P |
| 14:16:17 | kaen | ah, that's right |
| 14:16:20 | koda | One or two icons wouldn't hurt in that screenshot |
| 14:17:02 | jimmythesquid_ | The cleaner the better but I can always photoshop them out. |
| 14:17:25 | koda | You mean in :p |
| 14:17:47 | kaen | Watusimoto, do you think we can get BF to make starless/spaceless/hudless hi-res screenshots with transparent backgrounds? |
| 14:17:59 | Watusimoto | let's see |
| 14:18:02 | Watusimoto | starless definitely |
| 14:18:09 | Watusimoto | spaceless ?? |
| 14:18:16 | kaen | no black pixels |
| 14:18:21 | Watusimoto | hudless yes |
| 14:18:22 | kaen | just transparent background |
| 14:18:25 | jimmythesquid_ | transparent backgrounds. |
| 14:18:39 | Watusimoto | very unsure about transparent |
| 14:18:44 | Watusimoto | I just have no idea |
| 14:18:53 | Watusimoto | hi-res probably |
| 14:19:18 | Watusimoto | I don't know if it is possible to render to contexts other than the screen... that's what would make this work |
| 14:19:37 | Watusimoto | otherwise, probably no to the transparent, as we currently render to the screen, then grab the pixels |
| 14:19:48 | | Flynnn has joined |
| 14:19:56 | bobdaduck | make the background green |
| 14:19:58 | bobdaduck | and greenscreen it out |
| 14:20:13 | Watusimoto | if we don't paint the pixels black, they will be whatever was there before |
| 14:20:30 | kaen | yeah, maybe could just "blackscreen" the black pixels out |
| 14:20:41 | kaen | given that the stars aren't rendered |
| 14:20:52 | Watusimoto | we want transparent because then the title and stuff will show through the image, right? |
| 14:21:08 | Watusimoto | (like it was in oneof the screenshots posted earlier) |
| 14:21:24 | jimmythesquid_ | No, the screenshot goes behind the title. |
| 14:21:33 | Watusimoto | they why transparent? |
| 14:22:00 | jimmythesquid_ | Transparent so the stars are stationary and the screenshot scrolls |
| 14:22:07 | Watusimoto | ah |
| 14:22:38 | Watusimoto | ok, well still; if we just cut out the black pixels, even if there is a 1px fringe around the game elements, it should look ok |
| 14:23:01 | Watusimoto | considering you scroll in chunks, not one pixel at a time |
| 14:23:26 | jimmythesquid_ | if the image is high res and crisp enough, cutting out the black is easy. |
| 14:23:47 | jimmythesquid_ | Just if you can make it transparent then that would be better, |
| 14:24:26 | kaen | not sure about the libpng api, but surely we could convert pure black pixels to transparent ones after we grab the buffer |
| 14:25:10 | jimmythesquid_ | yep thats fine. |
| 14:26:07 | Watusimoto | what size do we want the images to be? |
| 14:26:18 | Watusimoto | recall that native resolution of the game is 800x600 |
| 14:27:23 | Watusimoto | scaling up from that may not be better in-game than it would be in photoshop |
| 14:27:36 | kaen | oh man that's right |
| 14:27:40 | Watusimoto | with the exception of texture-text (ie. our new fancy fonts) |
| 14:27:54 | Watusimoto | which we'll be cutting out when we axe the hud |
| 14:28:23 | Watusimoto | though probably antialiasing will be better (or not?) |
| 14:28:24 | jimmythesquid_ | Can you "screen shot" the entire level rather than a shot of the screen? |
| 14:28:35 | kaen | yeah, if we upsample from the buffer it'll be as pixelated as it would be in photoshop |
| 14:28:58 | Watusimoto | sort of - we have a commander's map view, which is the whole level, minus some elements |
| 14:29:06 | Watusimoto | but at 800x600 |
| 14:29:14 | jimmythesquid_ | Oh, okay. |
| 14:29:49 | kaen | I think we're stuck with 800x600, barring a pretty massive change |
| 14:29:51 | Watusimoto | there may be some ways to upsample in photoshop but keep the linework crisp |
| 14:30:16 | kaen | Watusimoto, sounds like he's describing the screenshot mode I added for pleiades |
| 14:30:44 | kaen | which basically zooms out on the entire level, then takes a screenshot like you're holding tab and hides the reference ship |
| 14:31:07 | kaen | so maybe we just need to add a keybinding for it :P |
| 14:31:28 | Watusimoto | ctrl-shift q? |
| 14:31:46 | kaen | perfect! |
| 14:32:04 | Watusimoto | remember, though that zoomming out to entire level won't show items that are out of scope |
| 14:32:07 | Watusimoto | or unknown |
| 14:32:17 | kaen | it's actually only in the editor |
| 14:32:22 | Watusimoto | so you may not know all the loaout zones or repair items, or whatever |
| 14:32:25 | Watusimoto | ah, ok |
| 14:32:34 | Watusimoto | that fixes that |
| 14:33:27 | jimmythesquid_ | Okay, so, could you maybe, take a few screenshots. one with some action, then just go around screenshotting the rest of the level and I can stich it all together. |
| 14:34:25 | Watusimoto | brb |
| 14:34:41 | jimmythesquid_ | we get a high res entire level screenshot as each part will have the detail of a screen shot. |
| 14:35:12 | kaen | ah, interesting idea |
| 14:36:41 | koda | That shortcut is too close to ctrl q that closes the app IMHO |
| 14:38:07 | kaen | ctrl q is actually already used for normal screenshots, koda :P |
| 14:38:28 | kaen | does it really close the app on some platforms? |
| 14:38:39 | koda | D: |
| 14:38:47 | koda | Yes |
| 14:38:55 | koda | Try it on Firefox |
| 14:39:13 | koda | D: |
| 14:39:51 | kaen | oh hehe |
| 14:40:27 | kaen | we have yet to port bitfighter to firefox ;) |
| 14:40:40 | | thread_ has joined |
| 14:40:47 | Watusimoto | if that multi-shot paste approach makes good screenshots, we could automate it |
| 14:40:48 | koda | Lol |
| 14:40:56 | koda | I think it's possible with nacl and chrome |
| 14:41:13 | koda | But emscripten would be the way to go |
| 14:41:19 | kaen | Watusimoto, I had the idea to just set the windowscalefactor to 10.0 |
| 14:41:36 | kaen | but it clips the actual buffer to the drawable size of the window for some reason |
| 14:42:21 | kaen | like, the window is 8000x6000 but it still renders gameplay so that it stay entirely on my desktop |
| 14:42:56 | Watusimoto | huh |
| 14:43:11 | kaen | does it work for you? |
| 14:44:48 | Watusimoto | where do you set the windowscalefactor? |
| 14:45:08 | koda | Wut |
| 14:45:11 | | koda Quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 14:45:30 | Watusimoto | oh, wait |
| 14:45:37 | Watusimoto | too many conversations going on here |
| 14:45:38 | | koda has joined |
| 14:45:51 | koda | That'd be a nice retina retina display :p |
| 14:50:12 | kaen | Watusimoto, bitfighter.ini |
| 14:51:45 | Watusimoto | ah, that factor |
| 14:51:52 | Watusimoto | that won't help |
| 14:52:47 | kaen | weird |
| 14:52:50 | Watusimoto | that just specifies how big the window should be when it is opened, but the os will override those |
| 14:53:09 | Watusimoto | now... maybe with a multi desktop virtual window you might be able to get bigger |
| 14:54:28 | Watusimoto | http://ynea.futureware.at/cgi-bin/index.pl |
| 14:57:17 | kaen | index.pl |
| 14:57:22 | kaen | haven't seen that in a while |
| 14:57:34 | kaen | that brave soul |
| 14:58:04 | | Flynnn Quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) |
| 14:59:41 | Watusimoto | the dude has an infinite screen! of course's he's brave! |
| 15:00:13 | Nothing_Much | what's going on everyone? |
| 15:00:33 | thread_ | Nothing_Much: |
| 15:00:43 | Nothing_Much | nice |
| 15:00:45 | kaen | oh, hi thread_ :) |
| 15:00:55 | Nothing_Much | Hi everyone |
| 15:01:01 | kaen | greetings |
| 15:01:10 | kaen | Watusimoto, did you see the mazerunner spinoff I did? |
| 15:01:15 | jimmythesquid_ | Hello |
| 15:01:28 | Nothing_Much | well, I tried to swap my cpu so I could get back to working on the trailer |
| 15:01:48 | kaen | http://bitfighter.org/pleiades/levels/view/80 |
| 15:02:38 | Nothing_Much | unfortunately the motherboard isn't compatible with the cpu or vice versa :( so for a big release there won't be a trailer for now.. |
| 15:03:40 | | koda_ has joined |
| 15:04:13 | Watusimoto | kaen: no what is that? |
| 15:04:37 | Watusimoto | ah, nice |
| 15:05:00 | Watusimoto | mazerunner was a good proof of concept thing, but it's not really a fun level by any standard |
| 15:05:09 | Watusimoto | unless you like mazes, I suppose |
| 15:05:15 | kaen | that's exactly what ring runner is :P |
| 15:05:20 | Nothing_Much | kaen, hey that's your level that changes a lot :O |
| 15:05:41 | kaen | except it does not actually even prove its concept |
| 15:05:41 | Watusimoto | well, ringrunner looks playable |
| 15:05:54 | Watusimoto | _k had a circular maze generator |
| 15:05:56 | kaen | which was to adapt a level to the number of players |
| 15:06:20 | Watusimoto | so are you testing infiinite screen, or should i? |
| 15:07:05 | kaen | I actually do not have a windows machine |
| 15:07:22 | kaen | or a machine that could reasonably run a vm |
| 15:07:25 | Watusimoto | I guess that leaves me :-) |
| 15:07:33 | kaen | :) |
| 15:07:38 | Watusimoto | it's not a vm |
| 15:07:43 | Watusimoto | oh |
| 15:07:44 | Watusimoto | duh |
| 15:07:45 | Watusimoto | sorry |
| 15:08:18 | kaen | heh |
| 15:08:20 | | koda Quit (Quit: K Thx Bai) |
| 15:08:20 | | koda_ is now known as koda |
| 15:15:20 | Watusimoto | yeah, that's not going to work |
| 15:15:27 | thread_ | So, uh... what is the response I get for wanting a new feature in 019 at this point? |
| 15:15:51 | kaen | try your luck |
| 15:16:06 | Watusimoto | now my monitor is all screwed up |
| 15:16:08 | bobdaduck | OR do it yourself |
| 15:16:28 | thread_ | Can I get the Zone class to have a isPointInZone(point) function? |
| 15:18:04 | | Flynnn has joined |
| 15:18:22 | jimmythesquid_ | I'm off to sleep now. |
| 15:18:34 | jimmythesquid_ | its almost half past six. |
| 15:18:34 | kaen | night, thanks for the work jimmythesquid_ |
| 15:18:39 | kaen | oh wow |
| 15:18:47 | Watusimoto | thanks! |
| 15:18:52 | kaen | thread_, not likely |
| 15:18:55 | thread_ | darn |
| 15:18:57 | kaen | that's a pretty easy algorithm |
| 15:19:18 | jimmythesquid_ | I'll come back tomorrow and see if you have made any progress on the screenshots. |
| 15:19:29 | kaen | there's actually two, I think bitfighter uses winding number internally: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_in_polygon |
| 15:19:30 | kaen | ok |
| 15:19:50 | jimmythesquid_ | Night |
| 15:19:54 | | jimmythesquid_ has left #bitfighter |
| 15:21:46 | kaen | now that I think about it thread, I'll actually put that in my bitfighter lua library |
| 15:22:02 | kaen | since it is admittedly pretty useful |
| 15:22:39 | kaen | well, actually |
| 15:22:50 | kaen | now that I think about it, it'd be easier to expose it than to write it |
| 15:22:57 | kaen | alright thread_, you've made a good argument |
| 15:22:58 | thread_ | exactly |
| 15:22:59 | kaen | I'll do it. |
| 15:23:13 | thread_ | yay! time for pie to celebrate |
| 15:24:41 | bobdaduck | rofl |
| 15:24:48 | bobdaduck | "you made a good argument" |
| 15:24:55 | bobdaduck | only thing he said was "darn" xD |
| 15:31:14 | kaen | we were having a debate in my mind |
| 15:31:33 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 15:31:44 | bobdaduck | well, thread_ does have the telepathies... |
| 15:32:56 | | Nothing_Much Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 15:32:57 | thread_ | "darn" was well placed and the telepathic argument sound |
| 15:34:13 | thread_ | Plus I had a hostage, just in case |
| 15:40:13 | koda | aw 18 errors on ios :\ |
| 15:40:33 | koda | "Zap::LevelSource::getLevelInfo(int)" |
| 15:42:20 | | Nothing_Much has joined |
| 15:43:22 | | koda adds BF_NO_CONSOLE ftw |
| 15:54:19 | koda | success \o/ |
| 15:55:37 | thread_ | YAY! |
| 15:56:01 | thread_ | by the way... remember that cookie clicker game that was kinda viral a couple weeks ago? |
| 15:57:54 | bobdaduck | yeah? |
| 15:58:39 | thread_ | well... http://candies.aniwey.net/ |
| 15:59:18 | bobdaduck | oh for the love why |
| 15:59:44 | thread_ | kaen: is there a way to tell if a line (between two points) is obstructed by a solid object such as a wall or poly wall? |
| 15:59:56 | koda | what's that game? :s |
| 16:00:00 | bobdaduck | point.canseepoint() |
| 16:00:12 | kaen | nope |
| 16:00:15 | thread_ | koda: its like cookieclicker, but with candy |
| 16:00:19 | kaen | bf:pointCanSeePoint(p1, p2) |
| 16:00:31 | koda | yeah i see no point too |
| 16:00:36 | kaen | lol |
| 16:01:04 | thread_ | "bf:pointCanSeePoint(p1, p2)" so its in 019 then? |
| 16:01:12 | kaen | yep |
| 16:01:33 | thread_ | I have to wait (;_;) |
| 16:02:03 | kaen | well, I mean you could do it yourself... |
| 16:02:13 | koda | two commits ready to merge https://vittoriogiovara-bitfighter-again.googlecode.com/hg |
| 16:02:42 | thread_ | sure, but how do I do it myself? I don't see how to do any collision checking in 018a Lua |
| 16:02:53 | bobdaduck | index all the walls and all the items |
| 16:03:05 | bobdaduck | and then every tick cross check all their geoms and whatever and see if they touch. |
| 16:03:19 | thread_ | uuhhhh... |
| 16:03:22 | kaen | yeah... |
| 16:04:02 | kaen | also, you'll have to poll all the negative IDs in some range to get all the objects without user-assigned ids |
| 16:04:27 | kaen | because 018a is actually a torture device. |
| 16:04:43 | thread_ | Yea... I'm ready for an upgrade |
| 16:04:54 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 16:05:48 | thread_ | I'll admit I have done plenty of crazy things in 018a, but once I get my hands on a stable 019 build... :) |
| 16:06:49 | kaen | hehe |
| 16:07:26 | thread_ | BTW, for the 019 Lua docs page, the header still says "Bitfighter 018: Bitfighter's Lua Documentation" |
| 16:07:56 | kaen | it'd be cool if we exposed a lua api for rendering, packing, and updating an object, then you could just make your own items types |
| 16:08:14 | thread_ | that would be really cool |
| 16:08:16 | kaen | and we'd have a general-purpose scriptable network game engine |
| 16:08:18 | | amgine_ has joined |
| 16:08:20 | kaen | almost |
| 16:08:23 | amgine_ | sup |
| 16:08:34 | amgine_ | any new builds need testing? |
| 16:08:42 | | amgine_ is now known as Guest24648 |
| 16:08:42 | kaen | WUT UP GANGSTA? |
| 16:08:52 | | Guest24648 is now known as amgine123456789 |
| 16:09:05 | amgine123456789 | any new builds need testing? |
| 16:09:14 | kaen | not really |
| 16:09:23 | kaen | found any more bugs in the last one? |
| 16:10:29 | | BFLogBot Commit: 2e0a3927e93f | Author: koda | Message: add BF_NO_CONSOLE where needed to preserve portability |
| 16:10:31 | | BFLogBot Commit: 7531e4ad00af | Author: koda | Message: update iOS project file |
| 16:10:49 | koda | \o/ |
| 16:11:05 | kaen | :) |
| 16:16:29 | amgine123456789 | no the downalod did work for me on the DB |
| 16:16:50 | amgine123456789 | althougnh my build is now 2 weeks old i think |
| 16:17:07 | | bobdaduck Quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 16:21:08 | | amgine123456789 Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 16:30:23 | | BFLogBot Commit: f57463bbe8b9 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Added event handlers for stick added/removed events, simplify stick logic for SDL2+. Fixes in-game crashing related to sticks, still crashes on exit. |
| 16:30:24 | | BFLogBot Commit: 11c482a679c4 | Author: watusimoto | Message: Merge |
| 16:30:26 | | BFLogBot Commit: a61288c88a9d | Author: watusimoto | Message: Merge |
| 16:32:22 | Watusimoto | well, I'm on the track to figuring out that crash |
| 16:32:26 | Watusimoto | but not there yet |
| 16:32:30 | Watusimoto | tomorrow... |
| 16:32:42 | thread_ | The crash I found? |
| 16:32:48 | Watusimoto | the joystick crash |
| 16:32:51 | thread_ | oh |
| 16:32:54 | thread_ | nm |
| 16:32:58 | Watusimoto | I don't know your crash |
| 16:33:20 | thread_ | I was discussing it with raptor. we don't know whats wrong |
| 16:33:47 | Watusimoto | ok, well I can look at that after this one, if no one else fixes it |
| 16:33:52 | Watusimoto | anyway... heading to bed |
| 16:33:54 | Watusimoto | good night! |
| 16:33:55 | thread_ | bye |
| 16:35:00 | | Darrel Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 16:42:40 | | kaen has joined |
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| 16:48:30 | thread_ | I still want to be able to use levelgen to force cloak players |
| 16:48:52 | thread_ | or at least force activate module |
| 16:55:17 | | amgine1234567890 has joined |
| 16:55:26 | amgine1234567890 | arg like every 5 min i get a timed out |
| 17:10:32 | | amgine1234567890 Quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 17:28:21 | | BFLogBot Commit: 7a3425a4be4e | Author: kaen | Message: Add Zone:containsPoint() lua method |
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| 18:01:00 | | BFLogBot Commit: 2dd112ab63ac | Author: kaen | Message: fix compiling with SDL 1.2 |
| 18:01:02 | | BFLogBot Commit: 764061ff2c26 | Author: kaen | Message: fix crash when adding robots before the level starts |
| 18:13:39 | | Flynnn has joined |
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| 19:02:06 | | Flynnn has joined |
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| 20:06:44 | | Flynnn has joined |
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| 20:07:29 | | Little_Apple has joined |
| 20:14:07 | | bobdaduck has joined |
| 20:14:11 | Little_Apple | kaen: WHY IS THE BITFIGHTER LOGO GONE |
| 20:15:03 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 20:15:03 | Little_Apple | bobdaduck: is the bitfighter logo showing up for you? |
| 20:15:12 | bobdaduck | on the homepage? |
| 20:15:20 | Little_Apple | the whole site |
| 20:15:25 | bobdaduck | yes its there |
| 20:15:30 | Little_Apple | weird. |
| 20:15:34 | bobdaduck | trying deep refresh... |
| 20:15:34 | Little_Apple | http://i.imgur.com/gWNVvNC.png |
| 20:15:38 | bobdaduck | still there |
| 20:16:04 | Little_Apple | I DONT KNOW WHATS GOING ON MAN |
| 20:16:15 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 20:16:22 | bobdaduck | dude you sound like foot |
| 20:16:25 | bobdaduck | its a logo chill |
| 20:16:36 | Little_Apple | I NEED TO KNOW WHAT SITE IM BUYING FURNITURE ON |
| 20:16:38 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 20:17:19 | Little_Apple | this is worse than 9/11. |
| 20:17:32 | Little_Apple | i mean the bitfighter logo wasnt gone during then. |
| 20:17:44 | bobdaduck | rofl |
| 20:18:09 | Little_Apple | I BLAME THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN |
| 20:18:17 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 20:19:45 | Little_Apple | the site looks naked.... |
| 20:20:13 | Little_Apple | dont tell quartz that. he'll probably start to wank to bitfighter. |
| 20:21:22 | Little_Apple | help ;—; |
| 20:24:10 | Little_Apple | whatisgoingooooooon |
| 20:26:37 | bobdaduck | deep refresh |
| 20:26:59 | | Flynnn has joined |
| 20:29:06 | bobdaduck | or play dwarf fortress |
| 20:29:23 | Little_Apple | the second suggestion sounds like it would work better. |
| 20:30:28 | bobdaduck | If only Obama played dwarf fortress |
| 20:30:33 | bobdaduck | We might not be in this mess |
| 20:30:57 | Little_Apple | want to know the real reason the government is shut down? |
| 20:31:12 | bobdaduck | I DUNNO IF I CAN HANDLE THAT. |
| 20:31:23 | Little_Apple | PREPARE YOURSELF http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELWd_C5-kQ |
| 20:38:03 | Little_Apple | PLIS FIX |
| 20:38:17 | | Little_Apple Quit (Quit: Page closed) |
| 21:28:13 | | BFLogBot Commit: 0f52c734ef93 | Author: kaen | Message: add some usage notes (and ominous warnings) for polygon manipulation functions |
| 21:42:03 | | BFLogBot Commit: e15fc807c8b0 | Author: kaen | Message: check the correct method in Zone:containsPoint |
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| 22:19:38 | bobdaduck | Hi what is the point of our forum "friends and foes"? |
| 22:23:24 | kaen | no idea |
| 22:23:59 | kaen | presumably if there are many users, you would want some sort of way to denote you like and you who don't |
| 22:24:11 | kaen | who you like* |
| 22:27:00 | bobdaduck | presumably if we had a social system at all. |
| 22:27:11 | kaen | yeah... |
| 22:27:49 | bobdaduck | I think it might be a totally ambiguous "ignore user" function |
| 22:28:21 | bobdaduck | Foes are users which will be ignored by default. Posts by these users will not be fully visible. Personal messages from foes are still permitted. Please note that you cannot ignore moderators or administrators. |
| 22:28:22 | bobdaduck | ah. |
| 22:40:22 | kaen | wow |
| 22:42:42 | | Flynnn Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 22:44:37 | bobdaduck | wow? |
| 22:49:45 | kaen | yeah, that's like a really ambiguous name for an ignore function |
| 22:50:07 | kaen | I thought it was more of like a frenemy type thing |
| 22:50:12 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 22:50:14 | kaen | like, for rival clan members |
| 22:50:20 | bobdaduck | IT WASN'T MY IDEA |
| 22:51:25 | kaen | that's exactly what someone would say if it was their idea |
| 22:51:26 | kaen | o.O |
| 22:52:03 | bobdaduck | IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN MY IDEA |
| 22:52:06 | bobdaduck | I HAVE MANY. |
| 22:52:23 | bobdaduck | IDEAS. |
| 22:53:05 | bobdaduck | But really, I didn't help set up the forum at all. We still had the invisionfree boards back then |
| 22:56:17 | kaen | sometimes I write |
| 22:56:20 | kaen | and I look at it |
| 22:56:22 | kaen | and I go |
| 22:56:29 | kaen | "wtf, how did that even compile?" |
| 22:57:01 | bobdaduck | I know how you feel! |
| 22:57:09 | bobdaduck | Sometimes I look at DnD |
| 22:57:38 | bobdaduck | and realize that I have a giveGold() function which calls an addGold() function |
| 23:00:21 | bobdaduck | and at random places the variable "ship" holds playerInfo |
| 23:00:35 | kaen | oh man, I hate those ones |
| 23:00:56 | kaen | but it's like so deeply ingrained in the code that you don't even want to fix it |
| 23:01:08 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 23:01:14 | kaen | especially with lua |
| 23:01:27 | kaen | because c++ will at least give you a compiler error if you forget one |
| 23:01:29 | kaen | but lua |
| 23:01:37 | kaen | lua will execute it |
| 23:01:38 | bobdaduck | I know that it holds playerInfo because of the comment next to it that says --This actually holds playerInfo. |
| 23:01:47 | kaen | "gee, that's a nice function you have there" |
| 23:01:54 | kaen | "would be unfortunate if it were to" |
| 23:02:00 | kaen | "THROW AN ERROR" |
| 23:02:09 | bobdaduck | rofl |
| 23:04:19 | | BFLogBot Commit: f8f3b716bf85 | Author: kaen | Message: add EditorPlugin:showMessage() lua method |
| 23:07:41 | bobdaduck | function nuke(ship) --Why LA why |
| 23:08:49 | kaen | lol |
| 23:16:45 | | bobdaduck Quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
